Played by a good orchestra, this pedal point can be one of the most transcending musical experiences to the listener. It makes one really shatter and go crazy with this enormous tension. A really magic moment. It was at least for me.
Best Richard, The quality of your material is really unsurpassed. I hope you understand how those of us that follow you appreciates the amazing work you put into these videos. I am very grateful!
Fantasia BWV 572 is one of Bach's most transcendent works. The significance of the pedal point is even greater when the pedal in the rest of the movement is analyzed - the motif of ascending stepwise motion is periodically seen throughout the piece, some lasting just a few bars...but right before the pedal point, its stepwise motion goes from the lowest to the highest register, abruptly drops, and then gives way to the middle voices rising stepwise -- ascension.
this is fantastic. I don't even enjoy this type of music usually, had never heard of Bruckner, still had the chills through the entire thing. thanks for the video
I knew instantly what you were referring to. However it HAS to be heard to the conclusion of the movement, IMO, The full astounding magical effect of the crescendo, diminuendo, crescendo runs to the end for me. Good job.
I've been listening to Bruckner's numbered symphonies lately, probably because of this video to be exact (I'm about to listen to this symphony soon, actually!) It really has been a pleasure getting to hear just how original (and brilliant) he is as a composer. I can certainly understand why he was such good friends with Mahler. Now that I've mentioned him, I can't help but wonder what the most beautiful passages of each Bruckner symphony would be (Yes, I watched the entire one you made about Mahler. I will listen to his symphonies next, by the way.)
Thanks for pointing that out, I love Bruckner and you can associate this music with organ music. I’ve heard that bass players especially find Bruckner hard to play, now I know why...
I'm familiar with this section with the sustained pedal point (though I didn't know that's what it is called), but I never before registered the pedal point as dissonant with what was being played above. So I missed it's importance and effect. I guess I just never paid attention to it directly. Very interesting, thanks.
Ha Bruckner ! Ha Bruckner ! Always so amazing and like coming from Heaven ! Thank you for showing this analysis ! Even if I know those pieces by heart I did not know this from an analytical point of view (I am just an "amateur" but listening a lot lot lot).
pedal point definitely makes a point - by remaining steadfast amidst a sea of shifting sounds, it gives the feeling of an unwavering conviction, of an independent force that can never compromise its integrity
02:20 interesting side fact: this ist the first entrance of the timpani in the whole opening movement. So, no use of the timpani for almost 20 minutes before.
The piece by Bach, mentioned first, always makes me think of a river. The first part is a creek up in the mountains. The second part is a wide river, flowing gently. The third (last) part - starting just after this diminished chord - is a big waterfall. And in Bruckner's 7th symphony I am aware of a very long creshendo for the timpani. As far as I remember, it is not in the first movement, so it has probably nothing to do with the timpani's part of the pedal point mentioned in this video.
This passage is very suitable for comparing various performances of Bruckner's famous symphony. This 'place' is so much important and I have never found any performer which I would have been satisfied enough with. No one underlines this spot clearly and passionately enough in my view.
Just wonderful how much in depth this everything is what you are doing on your channel. Your understanding of musical structures and their meaning is incredible. As I saw the title "breathtaking pedalpoint" I was wondering why you wounld not choose bach to show that kind of excitement, but as you then refered to the g-major fantasy I started to understand what you mean. I would really like to hear you teach about that fantasy or the g-minor fantasy aswell (for ex. when those pedal points start to evolve into a chromatic movement)...messiaen, for ex. les coprs glorieux' "combat de la mort e de la vie" also came to my mind.
Fun fact: A number of timpanists prefer to play this sustained pedal E as well as the one at the end of the finale on an extra-large timpano(anywhere from 33" to 42") so to achieve extra depth, resonance & power, despite the fact that Low E is well within the range of a standard low 31/32" timpano. In fact, Wieland Welzel of Berlin Phil specifically mentioned that he had the world's largest pedal timpano(35.5") made because of these pedal passages!
I’m not quite sure if there’s a dissonance or just rapid, successive modulations between E minor, B minor, and D major, ultimately settling to E major as the key originally suggests. The cello solo has me glued to this for future reference!
Have you ever considered analyzing an entire symphony on TH-cam? I'm sure it could be done over multiple videos. Perhaps that would be too exhausting though. I do not know. Just a suggestion :-))
The by far most breathtaking pedal point of all times are the last 2:30 (!) of the 3rd part of Brahms' Ein Deutsches Requiem, IMO. And also one of the most amazing choral fugues ever written. th-cam.com/video/E75hqLtKJlg/w-d-xo.html
Richard -- are you familiar with the controversy over the completions of Bruckner's Symphony #9? The two best completions are by Samale et al (played by Rattle in a 2011 recording) and Sebastian Letocart, whose theory is quite interesting. Would love to see a video on this on your channel. Also, the finale of the Symphony #5 (B-flat) is a colossal fugue which inspired how Wilhelm Furtwangler would conclude is own first symphony (B Minor) -- notice the similarities of the closes; Furtwangler almost quotes him literally. Finally, the finale of Wilhelm Stenhammar's Symphony #2 in G Minor is a colossal fugue which you would enjoy analyzing. How can such an obscure work sound so familiar -- I think I've heard some of this music in Hollywood movies (Hitchcock mysteries and the like).
I'm a huge classical music listener, mostly 19th century Romantic works -- but I just can't seem to get an appreciation for Bruckner as I do for Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Schumann, Berlioz, etc. I love the scherzo from the 9th, but that's about it. What symphony, if not his greatest, would be a good place to start? Thanks for any suggestions; I envy the love you all have for his works.
See what you think of the insistent D-above-middle-c horn pedalpoint that permeates the Trio section of Mvt. IV of Tchaikovsky’s Symphony No. 3, op. 29. The way the composer gets the pedal “unstuck” is quite unique and Beethovenian in its courageousness.
I love that passage as well! I'll likely do a video about his symphonies at some point, and I'll be sure to talk about Symphonies 2 and 3 a lot, since they don't get enough attention!
Want another amazing pedal point in symphonic literature? Here it is. It is from the finale of Gliere's 3rd symphony and it being a program symphony it describes the moment when the Bogatyrs are turned to stone and finaly the hero of the symphony itself being turned to stone. The unmoving pedal point of that is basically held more or less until the final bars of the work. th-cam.com/video/jxEMvnQgGhI/w-d-xo.htmlh9m5s
sadly no one cares. but I am with you on that point - it's a sad, sad state that we don't have an attention of the audience to go beyond the obvious repertoire...
Chords may not contain pedal but their attendant chord scales do. This kind of highly integrated (tonal/or modal or both) harmonic achitecture would not be called meandering especially to a jazz musician.
In a way, Bruckner peaks early in this symphony. The ending of the first movement is on an epic scale, whereas the coda of the fourth is an anti-climax. I think Bernstein was particularly bothered by this with Bruckner (and only conducted the unfinished 9th).
You're not the first person I've heard who dislikes the finale of the 7th, and I've never really understood, because I think it's a fantastic movement (and I love its coda too). If you had said the same thing about the finale of Mahler's 7th, I would have completely agreed!
@@Richard.Atkinson I don't dislike the finale; I merely said it was an anticlimax. When compared to the finales of any of Bruckner's other completed symphonies, it is reticent and does not give a sense of resolution. This may well have been Bruckner's intention. But to me the last movement of the 7th is certainly Bruckner's weakest of his last three symphonies.
I love how Bruckners symphonies are weighted towards different movements in various ways. Always thought the seventh was perfect with the big first movement and adagio and joyful scherzo and finale which have nothing to prove or achieve, just celebration.
After 40 Years of listening to classical music I still don't get Bruckner. Every so often I go back to give it another chance but I find him dull to the point of being almost unlistenable.
you should analyse more beethoven, is the greatest genius i know, especially his last quartets... too big for me, i feel like is too great to be listen by people... Otherwise, i love your work keep like that
Fergus Byett yes, there is... bach and many other composers used a lot the pedal. listen to bach's prelude bwv 543 there is a long A pedal in the beginning
I know how pedal points were invented! When organ pedals were first invented, noone knew how to play them, so they just left their foot there😂 kidding of course. Nice video!
interesting but try not to sound like your being forced to read the text at gunpoint by a psychotic organist. a little of the normal intonation patterns, the rise and fall, of English would help there :)
Some say this pedal point expresses total despair. I simply cannot hear this. to me this is AWE in the presence of God Almighty. IMO something totally different. But then i never hear despair in Bruckner
Best to listen to the Bruckner passage with headphones or good speakers, or it will be difficult to hear the pedal tone.
yeh i find it hard through my phone
I only saw this because I went to the comments section to comment about how I thought my hearing didn't go low enough to hear the frequencies 🤣
Played by a good orchestra, this pedal point can be one of the most transcending musical experiences to the listener. It makes one really shatter and go crazy with this enormous tension. A really magic moment. It was at least for me.
I agree!
Nice video by the way! And not the only really good one from your channel.
It’s the clarinet that thrills me in this section. The others play off one another, but the clarinet makes the whole thing work.
I'm a great Bruckner fan forever. His is uniq and one of the few "second to none" composers for me. Like an universe. Beyond the world.
Second to Mahler though
@@ikbent262 Silly Billy.
Best Richard,
The quality of your material is really unsurpassed. I hope you understand how those of us that follow you appreciates the amazing work you put into these videos. I am very grateful!
I appreciate the sentiment! Keep sharing them and I'll keep making them!
Brilliant analysis. The seventh is a display of a true genius at work
Fantasia BWV 572 is one of Bach's most transcendent works. The significance of the pedal point is even greater when the pedal in the rest of the movement is analyzed - the motif of ascending stepwise motion is periodically seen throughout the piece, some lasting just a few bars...but right before the pedal point, its stepwise motion goes from the lowest to the highest register, abruptly drops, and then gives way to the middle voices rising stepwise -- ascension.
this is fantastic. I don't even enjoy this type of music usually, had never heard of Bruckner, still had the chills through the entire thing. thanks for the video
Why leave it there? Bruckner keeps the pedal going all the way to the end of the movement.
I knew instantly what you were referring to. However it HAS to be heard to the conclusion of the movement, IMO, The full astounding magical effect of the crescendo, diminuendo, crescendo runs to the end for me. Good job.
Yes, of course it loses some of its effect out of context, but I wanted to make a short video.
Wonderful listening to this on Christmas night.
Great, thanks!
incredibly badass moment
I've been listening to Bruckner's numbered symphonies lately, probably because of this video to be exact (I'm about to listen to this symphony soon, actually!) It really has been a pleasure getting to hear just how original (and brilliant) he is as a composer. I can certainly understand why he was such good friends with Mahler. Now that I've mentioned him, I can't help but wonder what the most beautiful passages of each Bruckner symphony would be (Yes, I watched the entire one you made about Mahler. I will listen to his symphonies next, by the way.)
I have a lot of other Bruckner videos planned, so stay tuned!
Thanks for pointing that out, I love Bruckner and you can associate this music with organ music. I’ve heard that bass players especially find Bruckner hard to play, now I know why...
A favorite Bruckner moment. I've recently delved more deeply into the 3rd; I hope you'll post some analysis of it also.
I'm familiar with this section with the sustained pedal point (though I didn't know that's what it is called), but I never before registered the pedal point as dissonant with what was being played above. So I missed it's importance and effect. I guess I just never paid attention to it directly. Very interesting, thanks.
Ha Bruckner ! Ha Bruckner ! Always so amazing and like coming from Heaven ! Thank you for showing this analysis ! Even if I know those pieces by heart I did not know this from an analytical point of view (I am just an "amateur" but listening a lot lot lot).
I'm really really liking these videos. I'm learning and finding new music to give a listen
pedal point definitely makes a point - by remaining steadfast amidst a sea of shifting sounds, it gives the feeling of an unwavering conviction, of an independent force that can never compromise its integrity
Nice way to enjoy such a great music. Thanks a lot!
Fascinating. Thank you.
Fantastic example by doing held the Timpani ! Thanks.
02:20 interesting side fact: this ist the first entrance of the timpani in the whole opening movement. So, no use of the timpani for almost 20 minutes before.
The piece by Bach, mentioned first, always makes me think of a river. The first part is a creek up in the mountains. The second part is a wide river, flowing gently. The third (last) part - starting just after this diminished chord - is a big waterfall.
And in Bruckner's 7th symphony I am aware of a very long creshendo for the timpani. As far as I remember, it is not in the first movement, so it has probably nothing to do with the timpani's part of the pedal point mentioned in this video.
excellant, buddy boy.
This passage is very suitable for comparing various performances of Bruckner's famous symphony. This 'place' is so much important and I have never found any performer which I would have been satisfied enough with. No one underlines this spot clearly and passionately enough in my view.
Very nice! Made me think of the fugue in Brahms' German Requiem's third movement, with D as a pedal throughout the entire fugue :)
Just wonderful how much in depth this everything is what you are doing on your channel. Your understanding of musical structures and their meaning is incredible. As I saw the title "breathtaking pedalpoint" I was wondering why you wounld not choose bach to show that kind of excitement, but as you then refered to the g-major fantasy I started to understand what you mean. I would really like to hear you teach about that fantasy or the g-minor fantasy aswell (for ex. when those pedal points start to evolve into a chromatic movement)...messiaen, for ex. les coprs glorieux' "combat de la mort e de la vie" also came to my mind.
And what comes just after is stupendous.
Fun fact: A number of timpanists prefer to play this sustained pedal E as well as the one at the end of the finale on an extra-large timpano(anywhere from 33" to 42") so to achieve extra depth, resonance & power, despite the fact that Low E is well within the range of a standard low 31/32" timpano. In fact, Wieland Welzel of Berlin Phil specifically mentioned that he had the world's largest pedal timpano(35.5") made because of these pedal passages!
Interesting! I never knew this!
Amazing video! Maybe you should analyse Sibelius' pedal tones!
Any in particular?
I’m not quite sure if there’s a dissonance or just rapid, successive modulations between E minor, B minor, and D major, ultimately settling to E major as the key originally suggests. The cello solo has me glued to this for future reference!
Even if you consider these to be modulations, it would still be a dissonance.
@@Richard.Atkinson
Thanks for clarifying.
Bruckner saves the timpani until this very moment.
Stunning
Funnily enough, pedal point is actually called "orgelpunkt" in Norwegian, which means "organ point."
It's sometimes called an organ point in English, too.
That exactly what it is called in german as well.
Same thing in Dutch: 'orgelpunt'.
As in Danish!
I didn't realize I had such an international audience!
I think that when you analyse Bruckner's symphonies, you can understand that he was an organist...
Richard, amazing videos you made !.
See the breathtaking pedal point on final Fugue in Brahms "Herr, lehre doch mich" !!. :) :) :)
Bruckner's insistence and repetition showcased ti the extreme and I am enamoured of the extreme
Have you ever considered analyzing an entire symphony on TH-cam? I'm sure it could be done over multiple videos. Perhaps that would be too exhausting though. I do not know. Just a suggestion :-))
Franz Schmidt's Fourth Symphony would be a pretty good one for Richard to analyse.
The by far most breathtaking pedal point of all times are the last 2:30 (!) of the 3rd part of Brahms' Ein Deutsches Requiem, IMO. And also one of the most amazing choral fugues ever written. th-cam.com/video/E75hqLtKJlg/w-d-xo.html
Richard -- are you familiar with the controversy over the completions of Bruckner's Symphony #9? The two best completions are by Samale et al (played by Rattle in a 2011 recording) and Sebastian Letocart, whose theory is quite interesting. Would love to see a video on this on your channel. Also, the finale of the Symphony #5 (B-flat) is a colossal fugue which inspired how Wilhelm Furtwangler would conclude is own first symphony (B Minor) -- notice the similarities of the closes; Furtwangler almost quotes him literally. Finally, the finale of Wilhelm Stenhammar's Symphony #2 in G Minor is a colossal fugue which you would enjoy analyzing. How can such an obscure work sound so familiar -- I think I've heard some of this music in Hollywood movies (Hitchcock mysteries and the like).
Check out my latest video on the finale of the 5th!
Not waiting my time on fony completions of the 9th... Letocart is an arse...
I'm a huge classical music listener, mostly 19th century Romantic works -- but I just can't seem to get an appreciation for Bruckner as I do for Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Schumann, Berlioz, etc. I love the scherzo from the 9th, but that's about it. What symphony, if not his greatest, would be a good place to start? Thanks for any suggestions; I envy the love you all have for his works.
2:48
See what you think of the insistent D-above-middle-c horn pedalpoint that permeates the Trio section of Mvt. IV of Tchaikovsky’s Symphony No. 3, op. 29. The way the composer gets the pedal “unstuck” is quite unique and Beethovenian in its courageousness.
I love that passage as well! I'll likely do a video about his symphonies at some point, and I'll be sure to talk about Symphonies 2 and 3 a lot, since they don't get enough attention!
thanks!!!
Want another amazing pedal point in symphonic literature? Here it is. It is from the finale of Gliere's 3rd symphony and it being a program symphony it describes the moment when the Bogatyrs are turned to stone and finaly the hero of the symphony itself being turned to stone. The unmoving pedal point of that is basically held more or less until the final bars of the work.
th-cam.com/video/jxEMvnQgGhI/w-d-xo.htmlh9m5s
sadly no one cares. but I am with you on that point - it's a sad, sad state that we don't have an attention of the audience to go beyond the obvious repertoire...
the ending sounded like wagner's ring to me XD
Resolves.............back in the ‘Ring’!
1:27 "Following this abrupt diminished chord..."
Diminished? Isn't that supposed to be a C#min7?
It's a fully diminished seventh chord. I'm not an expert on the various ways it can be described/notated, especially the jazz/guitar notations.
Oh, right, C#-G is a tritone and C#-Bb is a diminished seventh. Thanks, I understand now!
If you went through every movement of every Bruckner symphony like you did for Brahms I would be very happy 😁
I'd love to do that, but it might take the rest of my life! Also, I'd probably skip over 00, 0, 1, and maybe 2.
Chords may not contain pedal but their attendant chord scales do. This kind of highly integrated (tonal/or modal or both) harmonic achitecture would not be called meandering especially to a jazz musician.
you are my idol
Bruckner or me?
beautiful passage, but I can't even hear the E on my speakers
Try headphones... or better speakers that don't cut out the bass range.
In a way, Bruckner peaks early in this symphony. The ending of the first movement is on an epic scale, whereas the coda of the fourth is an anti-climax. I think Bernstein was particularly bothered by this with Bruckner (and only conducted the unfinished 9th).
You're not the first person I've heard who dislikes the finale of the 7th, and I've never really understood, because I think it's a fantastic movement (and I love its coda too). If you had said the same thing about the finale of Mahler's 7th, I would have completely agreed!
@@Richard.Atkinson I don't dislike the finale; I merely said it was an anticlimax. When compared to the finales of any of Bruckner's other completed symphonies, it is reticent and does not give a sense of resolution. This may well have been Bruckner's intention. But to me the last movement of the 7th is certainly Bruckner's weakest of his last three symphonies.
@@Richard.Atkinson But the finale to Mahler's 7th is bonkers! :O
@@Richard.Atkinson I find the Mahler 7 finale to be sublime!
I love how Bruckners symphonies are weighted towards different movements in various ways. Always thought the seventh was perfect with the big first movement and adagio and joyful scherzo and finale which have nothing to prove or achieve, just celebration.
After 40 Years of listening to classical music I still don't get Bruckner. Every so often I go back to give it another chance but I find him dull to the point of being almost unlistenable.
you should analyse more beethoven, is the greatest genius i know,
especially his last quartets... too big for me, i feel like is too great
to be listen by people...
Otherwise, i love your work keep like that
was*
I love your content but the voice is a bit monotone
For those who wanted to hear this brucknerian pedal point played as an *actual* pedal point... here you are: th-cam.com/video/yan3cZg17BI/w-d-xo.html
So there's another D pedal point in the Bach after the section you played? Guess Bach liked the d ;)
Fergus Byett yes, there is... bach and many other composers used a lot the pedal.
listen to bach's prelude bwv 543 there is a long A pedal in the beginning
Funny how you call it Pedal Point, I've been taught it is called simply 'Pedal'.
You can also call it a pedal note or a pedal tone.
I know how pedal points were invented! When organ pedals were first invented, noone knew how to play them, so they just left their foot there😂 kidding of course. Nice video!
better than beethovens god chord
me gusrtari
s
interesting but try not to sound like your being forced to read the text at gunpoint by a psychotic organist. a little of the normal intonation patterns, the rise and fall, of English would help there :)
Some say this pedal point expresses total despair.
I simply cannot hear this.
to me this is AWE in the presence of God Almighty. IMO something totally different.
But then i never hear despair in Bruckner
2:46