Garbage Vs Gravel Bike | How Does Our Cheap Gravel Bike Compare?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ค. 2024
- It's time to put Jon's garbage to gravel bike conversion to the test! How does this cheap vintage upgrade compare to Ollie's top of the range carbon gravel bike? Chris is here to find out!
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"I have had a huge amount of fun." Well, there you have it. The best test of all. It really isn't the Km per hour it is smiles per hour.
Ron Byers smiles for miles
Smile! Smile! Smile!
@@kikoescora1522 I know but GCN is based in Great Britain. They and a lot of their followers don't want to hear about Imperial measurements.
Well stated to both of you.
So basically mtb is better than road
I know this is heresy but i think it just shows getting out on a bike is what we all need to do if we want to enjoy ourselves. Spending thousands of pounds to impress people or be slightly faster even though we arent racing is an optional insanity.
Exactly! The vast majority of us aren't competing so what does it really matter if you have a ten thousand dollar carbon weapon or a second hand steel relic. Just ride what you have and be better for the experience
I dont want to impress people. I just want to ride a 1x bike just for simplicity, I hate front gears . But expensive as hell in my country. Probably I bury money just to be happy.
You're right, my usual ride these days is a few laps around Richmond Park. It's a mecca for cyclists, so all the London accountants and their divorce lawyers are there hauling ass on Carbon race machines. They do make an awesome sound as they go past, but I really can't average half their speed on my 1982 Peugeot. after all though, it's enough that I can find the time to even go out at all.
I mostly ride alone and I don't care about going fast (I have a modern steel bike). However, I like how a bike with a slightly lighter wheelset feels, or how a new mid level groupset works etc. So I will save up for a bike that costs ~1500 pounds, because it will probably give me a more enjoyable, better experience. I know that in today's world 1500 isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things (sadly). Modern, low level groupsets work great, and I know you can buy a good used bike for 300 pounds and have fun on it, and if you take care of it it will last you a good while. However, there are people that like to spend a bit more money on a bike, not because they want to go faster or because they want to impress other people.
But really, if you can easily spend 3-4-5 grand on a bike, and you want to spend that much just because you want to impress other people or be 2 seconds faster, then go do it, I don't care. It's your money. 🙃
Cantilever brakes never cut it. V-brakes set up properly are as good or better than disks and are a lot harder to lock up on tricky traction.
These "modern vs garbage" tests are somewhat counter-productive.
You don't build a bike like the saracen to be as good as a modern equivalent, you build a bike like the saracen because it's what you have and you enjoy making a project out of it, with the end result being greater than the sum of its parts.
I understand that y'all at GCN are trying to integrate the whole "DIY" bit with your "which bike is best bike because numbers", but I think it would be more effective to keep those two things separate.
In my opinion, the people who would buy a Canyon Grail SLX are not the type of people who would build up an old mtb for budget gravel grinding, and the inverse is also true.
I believe I disagree. GCN has gone far too overboard with showing us the latest, greatest bikes that 90% of us won't buy. So much so that, only recently, I started skipping some of their bike features. Enough was enough. Cycling, as a past-time, and enjoyable healthy activity, is so much simpler than what GCN's message was becoming. This effort went a long way toward redeeming GCN as being cyclists instead of corporate shills.
I mean some guys are tinkerers as well as daredevils. And a lot of guys won't ride their $5-10k bike for commuting, but refuse to ride any old scrap heap... It's gotta be their scrap heap...
...I may be talking from experience... Lol
I agree. At the very least show an entry level gravel bike, compared the 'garbage' bike.
I would have preferred a comparison to a budget gravel bike. I'm currently debating spending about $1500 US on an adventure bike, or using that money for a conversion of a 90s frame I have.
Disagree. I think these reviews do a great service for the low-cost low-tech DIY bikes. A naive consumer often assumes something like "Twice as expensive means twice as good, surely!" but in practice its like "Twice as expensive, 2% better". This shows that.
Now factor in the amount of time you have to work, to get the money for the grail. Get on your old bike and enjoy "the outside" :) the bike does not matter, what matters is what you do with it.
Agreed.
Even ongoing maintenance is going to be 10% of the Grail, that's a super nice from me.
Especially on a gravel bike, which is always going to value fun over out and out speed.
Sarazen is also much less likely to get stolen.
It may not matter to someone who bought a garage-sale bike, but for a bike that some of us have owned, and ridden many miles/adventures on, it can give an old frame a new direction. There's that connection that I assure you is worth it to some of us.
All things considered, I think the garage bike is a better gravel bike.
It’s got proper sized tyres for one thing - just looks more fun
Yeah. See so much canyon here, feels like a sponsored sham. I’m not a huge fan of the direct to consumer thing.
@@dashpash we've become those people who watch infomercials in the middle of the night :D
@@joachimmacdonald2702 definitely looks way more fun... to me anyway, an allroad or gravel bike should be orientated toward adventure and all day in the saddle
comfort... that Canyon looks cool and racy but too expensive to have fun beating on it.
Garage?
Garbage?:( Jon worked hard at it!
limyohwan garbage is a nickname
All I can say is "Thank GOODNESS somebody confiscated Jon's paint cans," lol. He did a great job one the bike - leave the painting, even the 'garbage bike' painting, to someone else after his last few attempts. :-)
What a strange way to end Jons excellent series...would it not have been more enjoyable to just take it out on a decent gravel ride and enjoy it for what it is. That's what I wanted to see at least.
I absolutely agree with this
Totally agree, who exactly do all these numbers and comparisons pertain to? I’m more interested in a build and ride after, rather than trying to be sold on an overpriced bike that’s only slightly faster by the numbers
Maybe we'll see it again on GCN Tech :)
Glad its not just me. The video seemed like a rushed cop out. Pretty disappointing.
"Ah guys we need to do that gravel bike comparison video..."
"Ah just take it up that farm road and back down. That'll do it"
jonthedoors so rushed, they couldn’t grab hold of a spare set of pedals or a spare wahoo mount 🤦♂️
In perspective that are some expensive 6 sec. I know which I would choose - garbage. And the satisfaction, of having assembled and fixed ones own bike, adds to the picture. You know exactly how everything is put together.
So the Grail is altogether ~3% faster than the "Garbage Bike". What is the price difference? 3000%? :)
Not enough to be worthwhile for most of us, obviously. But that is a pretty massive difference if you're a racer.
@@joelhenderson3723 so train on the garbage bike and blow everyone away on your fast bike 💪😂
@@WheelersAtLarge Nah. I'm not a racer, so I don't have the fast bike. I'll train on the garbage bike and still blow you away on it XD
Joel Henderson racers don’t use garbage so it wasn’t for them in the first place
Canyons are cheap for carbon bikes. And the garbage bike conversion won’t cost nothing. I spent $250 converting a hybrid into a gravel bike and I used pretty low end components. In the end, I sold my gravel bike for $125...and I’ll probably buy a canyon. Garbage in, garbage out
Great to see the gravel build getting put through its paces. Also refreshing to see an honest result of the ride. I build many Retro Road Bikes. No better way to Cycle and Recycle ♻️ plus have fun and satisfaction along the way. Inspirational guys as always thanks for an entertaining and we’ll put together video 👍 All the best Andy
I think the Garbage Bike is rather sharp looking! I have a 1991 Schwinn Highplains that I'm fired up about doing the same thing to.
Big thanks to Jon, Chris and Ollie for this presentation! You guys ROCK!
this so called "garbage" bike has ten times of style to a "gravel" one
absolutely.
Top tip, keep flat bars on it so you have more control off road. I just been bike packing on a 30 year old stumpjumper and I loved every minute of riding it.
Should have included cost comparison for the challenge.
Canyon wouldn't have let that happen
@@Goriaas That would have pissed off their corporate sponsor overlords,They don't want you to know the bike that is over 15 times more expensive only goes like 3% faster lol
I would also like to know the expected maintenance costs for the next 3 years or 10,000 kms or something. Disc brakes are great if your competing, but cost more to faff with... And then when you factor in depreciation... yeah no thanks.
That wouldn't make much sense, they used ridiculously expensive GRX derailleur, whereas in real world for a bike like that you would use Sora shifters with Acera or Alivio derailleur.
@@wtfiswiththosehandles so true. a rear mech more expensive than the frame...
So a £4,000 bike is better than one from the local council dump... Thanks, GCN!
Only just better!
only uphill
alan bane the steel one will be better...
@@deskelly9313 Not quite... th-cam.com/video/Yne27ZV9k7M/w-d-xo.html
For a daily commute that involves a bit of gravel, asphalt, and single track I believe the old gravel bike wins. The Grail is an awesome racing gravel bike but would be stolen quickly if left unattended. Plus I believe the old steel frame would be a bit more comfortable. Thx for the video.
I think Si needs to take the garbage bike to Iceland for a couple days of self-supported gravel riding. :-)
We'd love to see that!
Shocker! We had just as much fun back in the 80s with our steel bikes with downtube shifters as you are now. Cycling isnt about tech. It's about getting outdoors and enjoying nature. Kudos to the person who can enjoy the sport without spending thousands.
I love gravel restoration builds! Such a great and cost-effective way to add a really versatile machine to your quiver - not to mention a gratifying project,
Thanks for showing us all just how much fun an old bike can be, or a new bike!!
Hell yes!
Good video, literally just taken my old GT Talera MTB from the 90s off the garage wall to give to my brother-in-law as a short range commuter. I last used it about 5 or 6 years ago as a pit bike in my early cross races, still a good old work horse. If people have these old machines hanging around, might be time to get them out for some fun!
I have a 1993 Rockhopper that I did the same thing to. 1x10 dropbar. Loads of fun! Also have an old Bianchi MTB converted to ss winter bike.
I hope Opie got his own gravel bike for father's Day. Everyone has that one mate who is always borrowing your stuff.
If the big tyres feel bumpy, you probably got to much pressure in there?!
Yep, I guess Simon as a roady lowered the pressure from 8bar down to 5bar, since it is an MTB gravel cross. Or so he probably did... :D)))))
Great series. I was inspired to build up my own garbage gravel bike with an old MTB I had laying around. Spent about $200 all told, and have a pretty unique and fun bike to ride. It really opens up the options while out riding around. I have to wonder though how it would compare to a cheap store bought gravel bike. THAT would be a great comparison....$300-$500 gravel bike vs. garbage gravel bike.
That what I luv about cantis, they don't slow you down much at all ; -)
Not if you dont know how to set them up or use them properly!
There is something called leverage and cable geometry, pad compounds and rim maintenance. That makes all the difference, along with knowing what front brakes are used for!
I can make decent quality cantis work nearly as effectively as discs in dry weather. My bad weather fixed gear ‘cross bike has old XTR cantis. I use this bike in the nastiest and muddiest of conditions.
Monstercross bikes are hella fun to ride. Seriously, if you can't have fun on this type of bike, then there's something wrong with you.
You betcha th-cam.com/video/Yne27ZV9k7M/w-d-xo.html
I feel like this comparison should have been a bit longer. I would have preferred to see a longer with power data and more talk about relative comfort.
Yes. GCN has done lots of videos with power data, so they know how to do it. I suspect the video was short, and even then it included the fluff of the wheel swap, because the "garbage" bike was actually way to close to the expensive carbon thing. Fix the contact points for user preference, and it comes down to aero and weight. For an average Joe the areo and weight aren't going to matter much. An average racer might care, but there is a lot of mid price bikes that would make a better comparison anyway. I will admit the canti brakes suck, and I'd pay good money to ditch them on my homemade bike if the retrofit was reasonably possible.
yeah, like a 6hr gravel race
That's it, gonna convert my 2 Fuji hybrid bikes into gravel bikes. Needing a winter project..
Ooh yes!
One is an amazing bike assemble by Jon, the other is just a grail. I pick the first everytime.
That trash you've said was actually one of my main bike 😂 Not the exact same bike but the build. But it was from a vintage mtb that converted to gravel
I could see the effect of the Grails odd handlebar taking the bumps, ( looked quite good), even if I don’t like the “look”.
Nice job with the build Jon. Fun video.
You guys forget one important test: the theftibility test. Simply lock those bikes for a few days outside in NYC, see which one lasts to the end of the test. This, to me, is the most important, not the 10 to 20 seconds difference
Agree, it is a big factor for those who use gravel bikes for commuting.
You'd be crazy to ride Texas gravel on a carbon bike. The gravel is the size of golf balls. I skitch on my fat bike.
th-cam.com/video/Yne27ZV9k7M/w-d-xo.html
This stuff is great. What I'd like to see, now, is a garbage bike build competition. Kind of like Top Gear. John, Dan, Ollie, and James all get a budget of $300 to buy a frame and all the components. They build their bike and then in the finale have a race! It'll be great fun! And maybe they can get The Stig to test race each one around a track circuit. :-D
Wonderful video! Only six seconds difference between a full carbon and a CR-MO bike. Truly a testament to Jon's mad mechanical skills. In addition, the steel bike can be repaired in the event of minor structural damage. That would be much harder to do with the carbon fiber bike.
I like steel a lot but Carbon fiber is actually remarkably easy to repair in the right hands.
Loved this content. Down to earth and accessible to all. That’s what cycling has been for decades and it’s only in the last decade that the costs to access the sport have risen… it’s about getting out there and having some fun… filling your lungs with a bit of life! Enjoy your cycling
A nice wrap-up report for this project. I admire GCN for focusing on re-use.
Thanks Matthew, we're into it too!
Thank you for this presentation. Well done.
£4000 bicycle v £400 bicycle. But which one is tougher and more durable and easier to maintain?
take a look at my bike th-cam.com/video/Yne27ZV9k7M/w-d-xo.html it certainly takes 20 times less money to maintain than those $4000 bikes
Bloody hell what kind of ridiculous pressure where you running those tyres at?! I wouldn’t put em over 30!
I cringed at the part when he said that the tyres on the MTB felt "balloony and bumpy" and that the lower volume tyres on the Grail will hopefully "stick to the ground better". I'm not trying to be an annoying smartass, but seriously, what the hell???
@@HOllyBOni this old school roadie talk where any tyre over 33mm is obscene craziness.
Perfect! Jon's bike still going strong!
I’m actually in the process of doing this with a 2018 ultegra groupset. Gonna be EPIC when it’s done!!
I have a hybrid which is my first bike which I brought with my own money, I am planning to upgrade it into a mountain bike 😅. , It has 650b Tyre size currently so lets see. nice video guys keep it up ✌️.
Thank goodness you ditched that obscene front brake set up you originally tried!
th-cam.com/video/Yne27ZV9k7M/w-d-xo.html
I like how many of your videos show how a person can get into cycling on the cheap
My current gravel bike is a drop bar conversation 1994 rockadile and i love it 1.75 tires bar end shifter thing is bombproof
Steel everytime, I'm still riding my 30 year old Roberts white spider
Fun video and no worries about me driving up the cost of vintage parts, you can have my “we’ll stop when damn good and ready to” cantilever brakes and lump o’ brick vintage saddle all day and every day.
excellent comparison which is fun to watch and discover. It's more realistic than always reading famous magazines that tell "positive nonsense" to please the brands that pay to have an advertising page in the same "famous" bicycle magazine ... Thank you very much!
That was great. I've been thinking of doing the same thing. I'm way too old to even think about riding like that at 68. But, I think I can have a lot of fun if I can stay in my lane and leave you young folks alone. All I Can say is enjoy your youth, because when it's gone it's gone. Peace my friend.
Thankyou for these words, really puts things in perspective. Hope you're well!
@@IsmaelChamu I'm fine my friend. How about your self? I am really going to get a bike. But this time I'm more incline to let someone buy instead of chasing them down and passing them. You know what I mean; wave as they ride pass me!
I Have a Mid 90s StumpJumper Im Converting Will be Awesome . Excellent Vid 😎 Thanks
You incessantly call that bike garbage. It is on the wrong side of an ocean for me, but let me know if you want to get rid of it. I'll ride that thing. I ride a very similar bike that is setup single speed. As far as the hill climb, if you are calling those tires "bouncy" on all the cobble you don't have your tire pressures right. When you try the test with lower pressures, post them along with average watts from a set of power pedals. Your hill climb will be closer than you think. You are a rodie (with respect), so it is no surprise you aren't as efficient on a mountain frame (even with old geo).
I would suggest putting the GoPro to 1440p@60 and the fov to superview. It makes it use the entire sensor and looks even better.
Great Video.
So on the ascent and descent, the second run was quicker. It was obvious from the video that you took a different line up the ascent on the second run, avoiding some of the rougher patches. That aside, "lighter bike goes up hill faster; heavier bike goes down hill faster" is an astounding insight! :) I own a 2x10 gravel bike but took off the knobbled tyres and put on 28mm road tyres. I find that on dry surfaces, knobbles add no benefit, and on mud and wet clay, they clog up quickly. I also have a fixed wheel road bike with 25mm road tyres. I find I have at least as much fun riding the fixed on gravel within its limits. Yes, it is more limited, but that just means I don't have to go searching for challenging terrain when I only have time for a short ride. When I was a kid, it wasn't called "gravel biking" - it was called, "going out on your bike."
such a cool build, I'm totally inspired to build one now.
YES! Show us how you get on!
90's mtbs are so good and underrated. i love them
Falcon Cycles Xenon 26inch MTB to 650bx1.9 gravel bike with cheap carbon fork, Ritchie Venture Max bars, 1x10 Tiagra, 42t x 11-40, Gravel king SK, Ergon seat, WTB i25 rims and great fun 👌 only downside was needing a riser stem to get the geometry right so bar bag to cover that up 😁
equal tire pressure, equal start and a 36t would bring the climb gap down by a lot.
Nice video, it show you can enjoy bike with a low budget !
I was running my Bontrager set up pretty much the same as that Saracen back in the 90's
In the real world you need to ride it all day not just for a couple of minutes. And also how it performs on the road is also important for real world gravel riding, certainly in Europe, where we don't have endless dirt roads like they do in the US.
Excellent vid. it does stress the cost variations between thousands of dollars vs a couple of hundred for all of a 6 second difference. The big question for all is how long of a ride would you be on when just going out for a fun ride vs competition ride in terms of personal physical tollerance.
Another Great Video!
Watching this caused me to think of a new completion: Flat Out!
----
The contestants sprint to a designated location, do a simulated 'flat-tire' repair, and sprint to the finish line.
----
This could be open to GCN, GMBN, EMBN and GTN contestants. ( Don't forget the non-english channels!).
He changed the front cable stop! I really like that frankenstein solution he first had on.
I would have liked to have seen a comparison between the saracen garbage bike and a something more comparable like a modern version like a surly crossxcheck.
Exactly! Just picked up a Crosscheck frame to do a similar comparison to a (few) 90's steel hybrids as well as my drop bar 26er.
My questions are 1) what were the gains received in the upgrades, comparing before and after and 2) I have a ‘06 trek fx 7.2 and a disc brake ‘15 giant defy adv 2... is it even worth looking at upgrading the Trek hybrid for you know hybrid (gravel / light off-road use as it was intended imo) or just putting 28s / more gravel like tires on the giant going to be way better than anything I throw at the trek?
Those bars on the canyon is something I hope never catches on do not like it at all.
They don't look very compliant in the drops, and proprietary of course so that's a big negative. I've changed the bars on every bike I've ever had so as good a bike as it might be that rules a Grail out for me.
wow nice video GCN!! Wish my videos where this good😕
Cycle Nutter checked out your channel, I like it!
Again a nice comparison video. Question wich type of Vision wheels are in the grail?
What’s the blue stuff poking out of the bar tape under the brake levers?
Di2 shift buttons. And boost motor control. :)
A great conclusion to this part of the bike tech story.
Nice video. Me personally, me thinks the reviewer is making sure the modern bike looks more appealing or maybe more of a better choice on gravel. People. DO NOT FALL INTO THE HYPE AND MARKETING TRAP. If you’re good at tinkering and making things up from your spare parts bin and then like testing your creation, then make one up. My winter bike bike is a Raleigh Shopper with drops, Sturmey gears, Brooks on springs, Schwalbe 20” marathon plus, modified rack. Brilliant at what does, when the weather is bad. . The bike you have, shouldn’t stop you going out and having a go on gravel. Everyday, bike commuters will at some point in their journey, ride on gravel anyway. So people, just enjoy the activity of riding and VIBRATE ON THE SADDLE.
Having a new bike is great and all if someone can afford it but if not, a decent used bike is more than good enough to complete any tasks at hand. In my opinion the pricey new bikes aren't worth the $1000-4000 price range for saving at best a few minutes. I'm still riding my 2009 Trek 820 mountain bike and it has served me well from roads, commutes, trails.
I happen to have my old hybrid from the 90s, which might become a project following this.
I have always been using road cycle, this year the gravel bug bit me and I bought a gravel bike. While the ride on modern day gravel bikes are awesome, the adjustment on hydraulic brakes sucks; literally!
I am planning to return on gravel on my normal road bike, maybe will swap to a 25mm or 28mm (if possible) tyre on the road bike for little comfort.
#GCNTech #GCN perhaps the “garbage” bike would be better served with some flat bars and labeled as a commuter? It’s still an amazing transformation and great example of recycling.
Shared in my Facebook group Budget Cyclist 😁
Nice work but factors left out are the wattage it takes to ride the bike up n down the hill etc.. also what size tires n make too. Otherwise good idea on reuse of a good bike. Great budget bike to get going on and enjoy for years to come.
The garbage bike looks brilliant! Oh, the other one nice too...
what are those blue things sticking out at the inside of the handlebar?
I also spot a new cablehanger for the front brake
I have monarch 1.0 with 6 speed, is it worth it to convert it to gravel bike? (Sorry bad english)
Nice video. I thought it was going to be bias, but you kept it very neutral. Great job on that! I want to point out per Canyon website the Grail is $1799us to $6000us depending on the model. The grail looks awesome, but for hodge podge gravel bike with a few hundred dollars. It makes the garbage bike pretty appealing! As long as your out riding. That's the main thing.
Sorry but I was expecting a nice mixed gravel and dirt lap to test them
I just finished building a modern steel gravel bike. Has 29x1.95 Karma MTB tires, which I found for me was the heavy mistake. Next round going true 29x1.9 gravel tires.
That seat post LOL
Exactly what I'll be doing soon, I have a late 90s early 2000s(not sure exact date) yellow aluminium GT Tempest, I've got wheels with the 11 speed compatible hg freehub and some semi slick gravel tyres, gonna get either a 2x11 microshift centos groupset or a used Claris 2x8 not sure and canti brakes and drops obviously
How did it go
I'm a mountain biker and new XC racer who became gravel-curious thanks to guided rides on my NordicTrack S22i. I can't get past how expensive entry-level gravel bikes are (~3000 USD) and I haven't been able to even come close to justifying the cost. The idea of buying an old MTB and converting it to a decent gravel bike for around $1000 sounds like lot more fun than spending $3,000-10,000 on a dedicated gravel bike.
What about a non-garbage 90's hard-tail?! I nabbed a Bontrager TiLite. Disc up front, but quality cants are fine for the rear. Featherlight 28mm SID Race Titanium shock with amazing lockout -- climbs like a coked squirrel, descends like an XC bike (though only 80mm travel, so you can't catch massive air), weighs
What width BB did you end up settling with and the chainring stayed on the outside correct? Let me know please, thanks! Also, what was the bb shell width,68?
I found my bike in a dumpster about a year ago. Took it and fixed it up and still riding it today.
Would really love to see a follow up "epic ride" on it, or something of the sort
Chris I'm calling wattage bazooka on both those efforts sensational video.... I'm going to make me one of those diy gravel bikes
Grab a more suitable saddle and wider bars and it will definitely improve the riding experience, great little project turned out to be!
Several things to consider... a $3000 bike will not make you 10 x better than a $300. To do a correct test, you have to do runs, in each bike, independent from one another, that is, you can´t ride one bike and then the other, one rider... you´ll have to do several rides with several different people and get an average... Another thing, in this case it seems the results are more based on the tires you are using than on the bike...
Really nice DIY Gravel bike! Also would have liked to see the price difference though!! ;)
awesome tires
It's like old cars, not about effiecency nor speed, just purely about the enjoyment you get between your A and B.
so what are those blue thingies on the steer? I don't remember those from Jon's show.
Well, that was a bit short test for an adventure/gravel bikes... but whatever, I'm surprised that old MTB with long stem and drops fits the rider. This old MTB frame would be probably to small for him as normal MTB with flat bars, I can't find other reason or he just doesn't want to point out in the video about how this old bike feels. These old MTBs have quite long top tube and are generally long and high(for a 26''er), so the position on the bike must be pretty agressive with drops, like CX not gravel...(maybe because of that the descent went so well) Just look at a height difference between saddle and bars in old Saracen and compare it to Canyon. So it is possible to convert old MTB on 26 wheels into drop bars hybrid, but from my experience one need smaller frame than used normally and not too long stem for a comfortable position.
Anyway a cool project, stiff old MTB rocks!