As someone who watched pretty much every Painkiller CPL World Tour game (covered it for ESR at the time), Vo0 was just on another level. Fata1lty's style bored you to death, a masterclass of shameless armor camping defensive cheese which ended up being a good match-up against the flowey Vo0 who would get frustrated by such antics. In fast paced games (CPMA, painkiller, QC with the right match-ups) I'd easily give Vo0 the nod as the most talented player. His style/mental didn't translate well to a slower duel like in Q3 and Quake Live though. For this slower style of duel I'd give the nod to Cypher. So many talented players in the history of quake though, and honestly I wouldn't be surprised if "the most talented" focused on the team game modes. But I didn't watch those, so gotta give the nod to Cypher :)
I wanted to answer some of your queastions guys or your opinions but comments are keep coming and the subject is so dept and complicated its better to make another video answering/discussing your thoughts from comment section :) Appreciate yours engagment guys. Dont get upset that your favourite player wasnt mentioned as the most talented one as we said before in the video. Its hard to say any of them has no talent because they are top players so obviously they are better than the other 99 % of the players. We compare their talents between them basically. Also talent has a lot of meanings and as I see a lot of people understand it diffrently. Let us know more what you think in comments and if you like the idea we will come back with video next friday discussing all of these aspects and everything you written down in the comments here ! cheers ❤
I disagree with Cypher being the most talented player. When we talk about talent in quake duel and all the things that matter in duel from mechanics to game sense I think that NOBODY can touch Raisy! The guy came from completely diffrent genre of games, he started competing againts Gods of Quake like a YEAR after he learned how to strafe jump? And he was always competing at the very top, almost always in top3. Don't forget that QC is harder game than all other quake's. In old quake's there was 1 meta and diffrent maps. In QC the whole meta changes according to what Champion you're playing with and what champion are you playing againts. Raisy has mastered almost all champions. The guy can not play QC for months then hope into the game and compete with the best players just like that. You could never say the same thing about Cypher.
One observation I would want to make is this: I listen one day to Asmongold and about his money make on youtube, he explained like this -that being part of an older generation now -compared to new kids on the block -most people who listen to him are adults as well, having jobs and making money. Thus they afford easily to support his channel and his enterprises. Not the same thing can be said about quake, who has been poised for long with egotistical people, I would say especially the second generations, those who rose up between 2002-2008-10. So much so that while we have seen from time to time ppl from the 1st generation trying to support the game financially, to organize small competitions and such, the guys that rose after 2002, most of them use the excuse that they grew up and have their "life". They seem to never have a true passion for the fps genre, but only used it to foment their bad character back then. Am I so much better? To some extend, I guess. But I kept thinking that if I would make a few tens thousands usd a month, and some exquake players make even more, then quake and esreality how should I call them, the master race, lol, would have every one or few months online competitions, one for Painkiller, one for Doom3which did not receive te love it deserved, one for the remembrance of Babbages CPL with q3 v1.17, maps tourney4 and t2, damage through floors, invest money and pay a few coders to build the q3 game in UE3 and adapt dm6 ztn and t4 to physics like the map tornado in ut3 So much can be done, but none wants to put the effort.
that's a pretty hot take, here is mine: there is plenty of different "quake clones" out there. Like xonotic, Warsaw/Warfork, Diabotical, to name the few, there are multipple different gamemodes and additions to vq3 physics (dashes, wall bounces, slides), every new clone of quake has been dividing AFPS community into smaller and smaller subcommunities, with slowly dying games that been left with 30 players playing for a couple of hours a day in the evening and all of them have the same ideas "all we need is a new gamemodes, new quake clone but this time with, this, this and that, from other quake clones, make it "noob friendly" (whatever they mean by that). naah That's not "all we need", the game itself needs to have an appeal and AFPS hasnt rly changed for 20 years (hard to improve perfection), we just keep adding weird funky stuff to make it more exciting for us not for a 15 year old, that's why there is no "new blood" comming in, it is a slowly dying genre and it's beeing kept alive by people with passion, younger gen recognised that, they like to play games , why would they invest their time and energy into something that will bring them nothing if they can do the same in other games and be on top and make money ?
@@abepl adding variation to the small fps scene would allow more newcomers to play. This week a doom3 duel tournament, that week one old style q3 with older version, another week a small Painkiller tournament, king of ztn osp q3, stuff like that. This is what I like about quake in the beginning, because it was a relatively new game people trained on equal ground. No time to grind your aim nonstop for 3 years like strenx did, like you would only have a few weeks at your disposal. When aiming and super timing is not refined enough, then is the moment when talent shines. This is why I liked original t4 ie and pro-dm6 maps, bc despite being unbalanced, since players were not super aimers and to know each corner and make control impossible to be lost, there was much room for creative gameplay. About making money most players don't make a dime. Moders as well, especially during these times, when (arguably) multicorporatism and shares mania is putting even many professional developers out of business. We dont have to chose a thousand mods, just the most fun and relevant ones, and many times use the brute unrefined version of our fps games.
@@abepl those fps clones were way too far away from the original and rarely invented something fun. OR used to put the emphasis on some particularities that only few liked, like v00 was an avid promode player, but many did not like the super fast and instants weapon switch, and rightfully so because imo it would give too much advantage to speed above anything else. Basically speed made with perfect strafejumping and rapid weapon switch if mastered could trash any very good player whatever his talented style, if he would not particularly shine on these two aspects Not coincidentally v00 was a beast in Painkiller where you could base much of your ownage on these things alone.
@@wladdragwlya these small fun tournaments are still happening, DWL (Diabotical Wipeout League) some Fun Cups with the upcoming one gbmaster's Fun Cup with a prizepool that will be hapopening Saturday October 26th, but that's in DBT, I thik that there is to many different quake clones, to many different modes that are made for 3 people dividing communities into smaller and smaller pieces. If you want T4 with some altered physics, go Diabotical, if u cant find T4 u can make one. you want to play vampiric CPMA style CTF with grappling hook, sure go ahead and have fun, That's Diabotical, but still noone is playing it, why ?
i think faye is up there in terms of talent. his potential is through the roof tbh given that he gets some more experience. shame the game is dead and he isn't able to train against the top players as much as everyone else has done the past decade and a half.
Saying that Rapha isn't part of the top of the most talented is a terrible take. Rapha has the NATURAL ABILITY to see further down the road into the match than anyone and this is probably the most important thing to have. He is an extremely hard working player but no amount of hard work is going to make someone have foresight to that degree. That is pure talent.
But this is exactly what we said later on in the video its very difficult to find a pro from top tier who hasnt any talent at all. First we had take on general talent, like mechanical skills, time you need to learn and win , amount of time you need to put into the game to get same results as others. Then we moved into individual talent and thats what we said about rapha and killsen that they were able to find perfect working playstyle, master it, push it through and win the majors with that but comparing clawz's ability of learning new game and getting into this level of mechanical skills is impossible for rapha even in eyes of his biggest fans ( thats what I atleast thought till now 😅)
@@maciejkrzykowski6757 the level of foresight Rapha has and is able to calculate/estimate very quickly multiple steps ahead how not only a current fight but future fights will play out based on decisions made now is something that pretty much all of us could spend our entire lives focused on and never end up on that level. Again, I think you are overlooking this particular aspect of talent which could be argued to be the most important part of duel. Me personally I don't have that talent at all (at Quake) but I am able to recognize someone who does. Rapha being 5 steps ahead isn't just a meme and I'm not entirely sure why you don't recognize this as being talent.
@@swabbiejohn Hmm did you watch the whole video ? We started with rapha in the beggining of the video where we tried to establish what is talent "in general" and then we came back to him later on in the video when we spoke about k1llsen. Same case. Both great champions. First look at them is nothing special talent-wise when you compare to clawz/serious/cypher with some outstanding plays but both of them managed to master their own style which is completely diffrent and became champions. I could go into details speaking of rapha timing, feeling the game and predicting opponents and k1llsen position , extreme awarness of situation, gamesense more than calculation etc etc but going into deep details with both of them and then with all of the people we previously discussed could be 10 hours video because I also like to speak about quake and going into details. Same with cooller there is shit tons of room in his case to speak about. He also wanst mentioned as the most talented player but he won a lot of major tournaments compared to for example clawz. It doesnt mean being not talented is insult in any way. Especially that we said during the video that its very hard to say someone has no talent from top players otherwise they wouldnt be top players.
Also talent for everyone might be something diffrent. If we go by results then fatal1ty is the most talented gamer ever walk on the planet? I dont remember the whole motto of his but what was it ? " 12 times champions in 5 diffrent games?" or smth like that? You could easly say then he is the GOAT not rapha but you know my POV is completely diffrent cause I used to compete with him. It took him 12 hours of gametime in each new game where he had accesss much earlier than anyone else to win first tournament and then fall on to the rest of the players who were joining that game. I dont see one bit of talent here but I see hard working, he was smart and definitely a bussiness shark to build his career on that. He sold it to society that he is the best gamer ever lived at some point in his career. He had ability to convince devs to let him play in closed betas or test the game before anyone else etc etc
Maybe people tend to think that rapha is not the most talented, because he does not do often flashy moves. But this is not because he cannot do those. He just optimizes for efficiency and avoids risky-suboptimal plays. But if forced (e.g. in the last minutes of an intense match), he can definitely show that the raw talent is there as well, insane shots, etc.
Man Rapha is not that talented. Even when he plays againts very good onliners who've never been to lan he tends to lose aim duels, hit less etc. There's a reason why his gamestyle revolves around hitting a lot of chip damage
@@EndpointQuake you "know" by studying. Knowing is the result of experience and not talent. Talent is a hunch, an intuition, a natural predisposition. You can't "know" something without experience. It's like saying Warren Buffett has a talent for investing because he knows when to invest. He doesn't, he just has tons of experience. Not saying rapha isn't talented but this take on talent is exactly what talent ISN'T.
Read some of the Reddit comments to us next time please, and avek your mic is way too quiet and the other guy way too loud. I have to turn my volume up so loud but now I hear the other guy screaming in my ear. Rapha is the most talented at mindset and positive attitude, and he has another level of thinking that nobody else has shown. And once rapha got internet he became a top 3 player q3 in like 1 year. He learns fast and understands the strategy better than everyone
Everybody just thinks talent is about aim and movement. But rapha didn’t even need that, and could win consistently. And he somehow stayed positive and knew he could be the best. And if some talents are better than others, then his has to be the best because it earned him the most results
When you say who is the most talented player of all time its different from saying who is the greatest quake player of all time. The greatest player of all time has to be Rapha as he has trophies, to show for and he has played and succeeded at multiple iterations of Quake. The guy is not in hall of fame for no reason. As for the most talented, the floor is open for discussion and all the guys you have analyzed are talented in their own way
anyway glad to meet you again we only used to warmup, and you were to me one of those great guys, always laughing of situations while I am very high temper and curse a lot sorry for that especially purri had to endure my witchcraft language towards him a lot
It is so nice to see this channel growing, despite it being extremely nieche. Keep it up! ✌️ Btw is it a public Discord you have? I would like to join.
I also would love to see analysis videos of old and new matches, it is something apparently noone is doing for QC. Vengeurr did it once with a viewer game and wanted to make a series out of it, but never did a 2nd one. I guess he had not enough contributions or smt like that.
IMO Clawz was very mechanically gifted and made it to the top winning a fewtournaments which was phenomenal but seeing his career and run i consider him a "One Hit Wonder" :)
clawz went on to play a different game that had a better future. he barely plays anymore and when he does he destroys everyone in ql duel. fog, cypher, agent, etc. please take an iq test before pressing enter again.
@xyuijenxaipo I might have an IQ not par with thee my friend , but I still stand by my statement that Clawz was a "One Hit Wonder" in Quake. He was undeniably phenomenal during his brief time in the scene, but after moving to other games, he never fully returned to Quake Champions. Whether he can still go toe-to-toe with a current QPL pro? I doubt it. Not because of a lack of skill, but because consistency, practice, and having the right priorities in life are crucial for success. I used to cheer for him back when he was destroying all seasonal pros left and right but his focus shifted from Quake to other esports titles with better prospects and more financial rewards, which is a completely valid choice. But as a Quake fan, in my view, he remains a "One Hit Wonder" in this game. :)
@@maciejkrzykowski6757 aiming stuff, kovaaks, routines, what playing against best fortnite players like noahreyli in aim duels was like, what got him into quake and aiming, diabotical aim arena and why he didn't play team modes in diabotical back in 2020, clan arena, why he quit in 2021, what was playing with serious like in nations cup, what he did to get such good combat skills, if he plans to continue playing after this year and what his relationship with serious and clawz is like
@@maciejkrzykowski6757 aiming stuff, kovaaks, routines, what playing against best fortnite players like noahreyli in aim duels was like, what got him into quake and aiming, diabotical aim arena and why he didn't play team modes in diabotical back in 2020, clan arena, why he quit in 2021, what was playing with serious like in nations cup, what he did to get such good combat skills, if he plans to continue playing after this year and what his relationship with serious and clawz is like
Guys, you say about Strenx that he is not talented, because he did not transition well between Quakes. But on the same time u consider Cypher the most talented ever - how is it possible? Where is logic here? Cypher was not good at Quake 4, he admits it himself, and says that this game was TOO FAST for him. Then he moved to Quake live, which was slower game, and this is his most successful time when he got his name in Quake. After QL he moved to QC and he pretty much did not win anything there. So how in the world this is versatile transition, worthy of being called most talented player ever, if out of 3 quake games, he was the champ only in one of them? Also Cypher started to play Quake when he was like 5 years old if I remember correctly, and his older brother was already a Belaruas duel champion. So after he stopped sucking his mother;s breast for milk, he pretty much lived Quake. How many players started that early, and had duel champion brother at home, from whom you could learn all the tricks in the book, probably attend LANs with him, talk to aother great duelers, u know, just watch and learn QUake all the time? Also CYpher's aim - it's very decent, but there are better aimers like CLawz or Serious. So even in this department, he cannot be called the most talented guy. For comparison - Rapha, who you rated as NOT TALENTED - he first touched Quake (and online playing for that matter) when he was 13 if I remember correctly. And because his parents were divorced, he lived with his mother only,. In that house they had shit PC/internet, he couldnt play there. So he only played during vacations when he was at his father's house. When he was living with mother for the most part of the year, he was learning quake only by watching demos over internet. And with this minimum amount of play, after few years, I think he beat Zero4 in some online game, and he started to attend lans and beating big names after like 2 years of having some LANs. Rapha is also very successful both in QL and QC, multiple times champion in both games. QL - who was the best, discussion is between Rapha or Cypher. But in QC, there is only 1 master and it's Rapha. Also his aim nowadays - he is on par with almost anyone from top 10, maybe still not top aimer, but for sure it is not rapha from QL. Ofc everyone can have his opinion, but for me all dots apart from mechanical skills (aim) lead to Rapha as not only the GOAT, but also the biggest talent if we consider the mix of all things. On top of that if we consider movement as mechanical skill - I think Rapha also has best movement from quake duelers. Yes I know tox's Slash is poetry, but other than that, I think Rapha has the most perfected and crafted movement on the maps from all duelers. Anyways, thx for the intervied, as always was pleasure to listen, great stories as always :)
I agree with you. This video is some major weird copium or something. I honestly think a ton of people when talking about this subject are primarily looking at raw aiming ability/combat. The mental game is being completely disregarded here as nothing other than "hard work" which is absolutely wild.
@@swabbiejohn well I am most impressed with aim too when it comes to being a talented player. But we are talking here specifaly about quake duel - and this is very unique mode. Yeah we also consider other modes, but let's be honest, duel is the biggest part. As for Rapha let's also add another factor, very important one - for a lot of years, he did not have top players to train with in NA. 80% of top players are from EU, so for the big part of his career he was also limited with this factor. THis is literally crazy of what he achieved if you add all the obstacles he had to overcome. ANd one more thing about being the most talented player - the consistency. It is like in F1, the best drivers are doing lap by lap by lap by lap with 0.2seconds difference if we remove tyres degradation factor. Who is the most consistent Quake Player? Well, for me also Rapha.
Loved this. do you guys think that if clawz was same age and started at teh same time playing and practicing quake that he would of turned into something we've never seen before? I wonder that about the talents that seem to only get the fire for a short while, and you never really see their peak because they keep getting better when they actually keep moltivation and play
Talent doesn't exist, skill is a mix of practice and lots of other conditions, private life and your own history etc. And practice is only a coefficient.
I think talent definitely exist to a degree. Some people learn or pickup a skill faster than others, or have faster reaction times, or in the case of sports have a more suitable physique; that is talent. However, with hardwork, I believe a less talented person can catch up to, and maybe even surpass a talented person at something, provided the more talented person didn't put in as much work.
@@saudude2174There is no scientific consensus on what "talent" actually is or how it is developed. Therefore, just about any statement is valid. The only silly argument here is calling other arguments silly based on your own beliefs.
@@Annifloyd Good reaction time does not mean talent. I agree that sports go reach the most extreme bodies in their own skills but i won't call it talent either. It's part of the very large amount of conditions, your physical "build" lol.
@@SleepyRickyC92 i don't think it's universal "talent" then, it's already a skill to learn faster something that suits you. I learn music and video games really fast, but i sucked at countless things especially in school. Doesn't mean anything but i'd rather say i have a good learning skill in music than "talent"
None of them. The most talented place is between Thresh, ZeRo4 (known for his small playtime, used to train only a few matches a day, since you were talking about that), and equally talented f_ing Lakerman. While cypher is a tremendous player, with specific style, his dubious usage of marijuana plays a role. He has also been playing since like when? 12? Rapha is not a particularly super talent because if you put away his super strong timing and memory you remain with what? These three players, though, Thresh, Lakerman and ZeRo4, when they played was like symphony in motion. Each with very different movement and beautiful play. Pro players from modern times are out of the question also because the game became more and more timing and aiming, while other things, exactly those that show up talent, felt behind. There is also me but I never trained enough oh the modesty.
As someone who watched pretty much every Painkiller CPL World Tour game (covered it for ESR at the time), Vo0 was just on another level. Fata1lty's style bored you to death, a masterclass of shameless armor camping defensive cheese which ended up being a good match-up against the flowey Vo0 who would get frustrated by such antics. In fast paced games (CPMA, painkiller, QC with the right match-ups) I'd easily give Vo0 the nod as the most talented player.
His style/mental didn't translate well to a slower duel like in Q3 and Quake Live though.
For this slower style of duel I'd give the nod to Cypher. So many talented players in the history of quake though, and honestly I wouldn't be surprised if "the most talented" focused on the team game modes. But I didn't watch those, so gotta give the nod to Cypher :)
I wanted to answer some of your queastions guys or your opinions but comments are keep coming and the subject is so dept and complicated its better to make another video answering/discussing your thoughts from comment section :) Appreciate yours engagment guys. Dont get upset that your favourite player wasnt mentioned as the most talented one as we said before in the video. Its hard to say any of them has no talent because they are top players so obviously they are better than the other 99 % of the players. We compare their talents between them basically.
Also talent has a lot of meanings and as I see a lot of people understand it diffrently.
Let us know more what you think in comments and if you like the idea we will come back with video next friday discussing all of these aspects and everything you written down in the comments here ! cheers
❤
I disagree with Cypher being the most talented player. When we talk about talent in quake duel and all the things that matter in duel from mechanics to game sense I think that NOBODY can touch Raisy!
The guy came from completely diffrent genre of games, he started competing againts Gods of Quake like a YEAR after he learned how to strafe jump? And he was always competing at the very top, almost always in top3. Don't forget that QC is harder game than all other quake's. In old quake's there was 1 meta and diffrent maps. In QC the whole meta changes according to what Champion you're playing with and what champion are you playing againts. Raisy has mastered almost all champions. The guy can not play QC for months then hope into the game and compete with the best players just like that. You could never say the same thing about Cypher.
One observation I would want to make is this:
I listen one day to Asmongold and about his money make on youtube, he explained like this -that being part of an older generation now -compared to new kids on the block -most people who listen to him are adults as well, having jobs and making money. Thus they afford easily to support his channel and his enterprises.
Not the same thing can be said about quake, who has been poised for long with egotistical people, I would say especially the second generations, those who rose up between 2002-2008-10.
So much so that while we have seen from time to time ppl from the 1st generation trying to support the game financially, to organize small competitions and such, the guys that rose after 2002, most of them use the excuse that they grew up and have their "life". They seem to never have a true passion for the fps genre, but only used it to foment their bad character back then.
Am I so much better? To some extend, I guess. But I kept thinking that if I would make a few tens thousands usd a month, and some exquake players make even more, then quake and esreality how should I call them, the master race, lol, would have every one or few months online competitions, one for Painkiller, one for Doom3which did not receive te love it deserved, one for the remembrance of Babbages CPL with q3 v1.17, maps tourney4 and t2, damage through floors,
invest money and pay a few coders to build the q3 game in UE3 and adapt dm6 ztn and t4 to physics like the map tornado in ut3
So much can be done, but none wants to put the effort.
that's a pretty hot take, here is mine: there is plenty of different "quake clones" out there. Like xonotic, Warsaw/Warfork, Diabotical, to name the few, there are multipple different gamemodes and additions to vq3 physics (dashes, wall bounces, slides), every new clone of quake has been dividing AFPS community into smaller and smaller subcommunities, with slowly dying games that been left with 30 players playing for a couple of hours a day in the evening and all of them have the same ideas "all we need is a new gamemodes, new quake clone but this time with, this, this and that, from other quake clones, make it "noob friendly" (whatever they mean by that). naah That's not "all we need", the game itself needs to have an appeal and AFPS hasnt rly changed for 20 years (hard to improve perfection), we just keep adding weird funky stuff to make it more exciting for us not for a 15 year old, that's why there is no "new blood" comming in, it is a slowly dying genre and it's beeing kept alive by people with passion, younger gen recognised that, they like to play games , why would they invest their time and energy into something that will bring them nothing if they can do the same in other games and be on top and make money ?
@@abepl adding variation to the small fps scene would allow more newcomers to play. This week a doom3 duel tournament, that week one old style q3 with older version, another week a small Painkiller tournament, king of ztn osp q3, stuff like that. This is what I like about quake in the beginning, because it was a relatively new game people trained on equal ground. No time to grind your aim nonstop for 3 years like strenx did, like you would only have a few weeks at your disposal. When aiming and super timing is not refined enough, then is the moment when talent shines. This is why I liked original t4 ie and pro-dm6 maps, bc despite being unbalanced, since players were not super aimers and to know each corner and make control impossible to be lost, there was much room for creative gameplay. About making money most players don't make a dime. Moders as well, especially during these times, when (arguably) multicorporatism and shares mania is putting even many professional developers out of business. We dont have to chose a thousand mods, just the most fun and relevant ones, and many times use the brute unrefined version of our fps games.
@@abepl those fps clones were way too far away from the original and rarely invented something fun. OR used to put the emphasis on some particularities that only few liked, like v00 was an avid promode player, but many did not like the super fast and instants weapon switch, and rightfully so because imo it would give too much advantage to speed above anything else. Basically speed made with perfect strafejumping and rapid weapon switch if mastered could trash any very good player whatever his talented style, if he would not particularly shine on these two aspects Not coincidentally v00 was a beast in Painkiller where you could base much of your ownage on these things alone.
@@wladdragwlya these small fun tournaments are still happening, DWL (Diabotical Wipeout League) some Fun Cups with the upcoming one gbmaster's Fun Cup with a prizepool that will be hapopening Saturday October 26th, but that's in DBT, I thik that there is to many different quake clones, to many different modes that are made for 3 people dividing communities into smaller and smaller pieces. If you want T4 with some altered physics, go Diabotical, if u cant find T4 u can make one. you want to play vampiric CPMA style CTF with grappling hook, sure go ahead and have fun, That's Diabotical, but still noone is playing it, why ?
i think faye is up there in terms of talent. his potential is through the roof tbh given that he gets some more experience. shame the game is dead and he isn't able to train against the top players as much as everyone else has done the past decade and a half.
Quake 6 prayge
Saying that Rapha isn't part of the top of the most talented is a terrible take. Rapha has the NATURAL ABILITY to see further down the road into the match than anyone and this is probably the most important thing to have. He is an extremely hard working player but no amount of hard work is going to make someone have foresight to that degree. That is pure talent.
Is game sense the same as talent?
But this is exactly what we said later on in the video its very difficult to find a pro from top tier who hasnt any talent at all. First we had take on general talent, like mechanical skills, time you need to learn and win , amount of time you need to put into the game to get same results as others. Then we moved into individual talent and thats what we said about rapha and killsen that they were able to find perfect working playstyle, master it, push it through and win the majors with that but comparing clawz's ability of learning new game and getting into this level of mechanical skills is impossible for rapha even in eyes of his biggest fans ( thats what I atleast thought till now 😅)
@@maciejkrzykowski6757 the level of foresight Rapha has and is able to calculate/estimate very quickly multiple steps ahead how not only a current fight but future fights will play out based on decisions made now is something that pretty much all of us could spend our entire lives focused on and never end up on that level. Again, I think you are overlooking this particular aspect of talent which could be argued to be the most important part of duel. Me personally I don't have that talent at all (at Quake) but I am able to recognize someone who does. Rapha being 5 steps ahead isn't just a meme and I'm not entirely sure why you don't recognize this as being talent.
@@swabbiejohn Hmm did you watch the whole video ? We started with rapha in the beggining of the video where we tried to establish what is talent "in general" and then we came back to him later on in the video when we spoke about k1llsen. Same case. Both great champions. First look at them is nothing special talent-wise when you compare to clawz/serious/cypher with some outstanding plays but both of them managed to master their own style which is completely diffrent and became champions. I could go into details speaking of rapha timing, feeling the game and predicting opponents and k1llsen position , extreme awarness of situation, gamesense more than calculation etc etc but going into deep details with both of them and then with all of the people we previously discussed could be 10 hours video because I also like to speak about quake and going into details. Same with cooller there is shit tons of room in his case to speak about. He also wanst mentioned as the most talented player but he won a lot of major tournaments compared to for example clawz. It doesnt mean being not talented is insult in any way. Especially that we said during the video that its very hard to say someone has no talent from top players otherwise they wouldnt be top players.
Also talent for everyone might be something diffrent. If we go by results then fatal1ty is the most talented gamer ever walk on the planet? I dont remember the whole motto of his but what was it ? " 12 times champions in 5 diffrent games?" or smth like that? You could easly say then he is the GOAT not rapha but you know my POV is completely diffrent cause I used to compete with him. It took him 12 hours of gametime in each new game where he had accesss much earlier than anyone else to win first tournament and then fall on to the rest of the players who were joining that game. I dont see one bit of talent here but I see hard working, he was smart and definitely a bussiness shark to build his career on that. He sold it to society that he is the best gamer ever lived at some point in his career. He had ability to convince devs to let him play in closed betas or test the game before anyone else etc etc
Maybe people tend to think that rapha is not the most talented, because he does not do often flashy moves. But this is not because he cannot do those. He just optimizes for efficiency and avoids risky-suboptimal plays. But if forced (e.g. in the last minutes of an intense match), he can definitely show that the raw talent is there as well, insane shots, etc.
To me that's a talent in itself - knowing when to make the risky play and when to make the percentage play
Man Rapha is not that talented. Even when he plays againts very good onliners who've never been to lan he tends to lose aim duels, hit less etc. There's a reason why his gamestyle revolves around hitting a lot of chip damage
@@EndpointQuake you "know" by studying. Knowing is the result of experience and not talent. Talent is a hunch, an intuition, a natural predisposition. You can't "know" something without experience. It's like saying Warren Buffett has a talent for investing because he knows when to invest. He doesn't, he just has tons of experience. Not saying rapha isn't talented but this take on talent is exactly what talent ISN'T.
Talking roughly talent, Cypher is the king.
Hope he can play again in the future
Read some of the Reddit comments to us next time please, and avek your mic is way too quiet and the other guy way too loud. I have to turn my volume up so loud but now I hear the other guy screaming in my ear.
Rapha is the most talented at mindset and positive attitude, and he has another level of thinking that nobody else has shown.
And once rapha got internet he became a top 3 player q3 in like 1 year. He learns fast and understands the strategy better than everyone
Everybody just thinks talent is about aim and movement. But rapha didn’t even need that, and could win consistently. And he somehow stayed positive and knew he could be the best.
And if some talents are better than others, then his has to be the best because it earned him the most results
Thanks for the feedback!
I have to agree, please balance out the volumes before recording.
Very interesting and with great atmosphere talk. Good job again:) P.S. Pozdr Krzysiek!
Glad you liked!
Rapha was extremely talented, Cypher without exception was the most exciting Quake Live player ever, the rock star of Quake!
Cypher things
When you say who is the most talented player of all time its different from saying who is the greatest quake player of all time. The greatest player of all time has to be Rapha as he has trophies, to show for and he has played and succeeded at multiple iterations of Quake. The guy is not in hall of fame for no reason. As for the most talented, the floor is open for discussion and all the guys you have analyzed are talented in their own way
This is a good take
anyway glad to meet you again
we only used to warmup, and you were to me one of those great guys, always laughing of situations
while I am very high temper and curse a lot
sorry for that especially purri had to endure my witchcraft language towards him a lot
It is so nice to see this channel growing, despite it being extremely nieche. Keep it up! ✌️ Btw is it a public Discord you have? I would like to join.
I also would love to see analysis videos of old and new matches, it is something apparently noone is doing for QC. Vengeurr did it once with a viewer game and wanted to make a series out of it, but never did a 2nd one. I guess he had not enough contributions or smt like that.
Last question I swear 😂
What is your take on the talent Strongsage as being the young blood.
IMO Clawz was very mechanically gifted and made it to the top winning a fewtournaments which was phenomenal but seeing his career and run i consider him a "One Hit Wonder" :)
What could have been...
clawz went on to play a different game that had a better future. he barely plays anymore and when he does he destroys everyone in ql duel. fog, cypher, agent, etc. please take an iq test before pressing enter again.
@xyuijenxaipo
I might have an IQ not par with thee my friend , but I still stand by my statement that Clawz was a "One Hit Wonder" in Quake. He was undeniably phenomenal during his brief time in the scene, but after moving to other games, he never fully returned to Quake Champions. Whether he can still go toe-to-toe with a current QPL pro? I doubt it. Not because of a lack of skill, but because consistency, practice, and having the right priorities in life are crucial for success.
I used to cheer for him back when he was destroying all seasonal pros left and right but his focus shifted from Quake to other esports titles with better prospects and more financial rewards, which is a completely valid choice. But as a Quake fan, in my view, he remains a "One Hit Wonder" in this game. :)
@@fawad.rashid why do low iqs type so much
we need an interview with faye!!
potential queastions or topics you would like to know from faye ?
@@maciejkrzykowski6757 aiming stuff, kovaaks, routines, what playing against best fortnite players like noahreyli in aim duels was like, what got him into quake and aiming, diabotical aim arena and why he didn't play team modes in diabotical back in 2020, clan arena, why he quit in 2021, what was playing with serious like in nations cup, what he did to get such good combat skills, if he plans to continue playing after this year and what his relationship with serious and clawz is like
@@maciejkrzykowski6757 aiming stuff, kovaaks, routines, what playing against best fortnite players like noahreyli in aim duels was like, what got him into quake and aiming, diabotical aim arena and why he didn't play team modes in diabotical back in 2020, clan arena, why he quit in 2021, what was playing with serious like in nations cup, what he did to get such good combat skills, if he plans to continue playing after this year and what his relationship with serious and clawz is like
Hmmmm what about CZM? I can imagine him not having the time to grind as much as the other S tier players from his era.
Guys, you say about Strenx that he is not talented, because he did not transition well between Quakes.
But on the same time u consider Cypher the most talented ever - how is it possible? Where is logic here?
Cypher was not good at Quake 4, he admits it himself, and says that this game was TOO FAST for him. Then he moved to Quake live, which was slower game, and this is his most successful time when he got his name in Quake. After QL he moved to QC and he pretty much did not win anything there. So how in the world this is versatile transition, worthy of being called most talented player ever, if out of 3 quake games, he was the champ only in one of them?
Also Cypher started to play Quake when he was like 5 years old if I remember correctly, and his older brother was already a Belaruas duel champion. So after he stopped sucking his mother;s breast for milk, he pretty much lived Quake. How many players started that early, and had duel champion brother at home, from whom you could learn all the tricks in the book, probably attend LANs with him, talk to aother great duelers, u know, just watch and learn QUake all the time?
Also CYpher's aim - it's very decent, but there are better aimers like CLawz or Serious. So even in this department, he cannot be called the most talented guy.
For comparison - Rapha, who you rated as NOT TALENTED - he first touched Quake (and online playing for that matter) when he was 13 if I remember correctly. And because his parents were divorced, he lived with his mother only,. In that house they had shit PC/internet, he couldnt play there. So he only played during vacations when he was at his father's house. When he was living with mother for the most part of the year, he was learning quake only by watching demos over internet.
And with this minimum amount of play, after few years, I think he beat Zero4 in some online game, and he started to attend lans and beating big names after like 2 years of having some LANs.
Rapha is also very successful both in QL and QC, multiple times champion in both games. QL - who was the best, discussion is between Rapha or Cypher. But in QC, there is only 1 master and it's Rapha.
Also his aim nowadays - he is on par with almost anyone from top 10, maybe still not top aimer, but for sure it is not rapha from QL.
Ofc everyone can have his opinion, but for me all dots apart from mechanical skills (aim) lead to Rapha as not only the GOAT, but also the biggest talent if we consider the mix of all things.
On top of that if we consider movement as mechanical skill - I think Rapha also has best movement from quake duelers. Yes I know tox's Slash is poetry, but other than that, I think Rapha has the most perfected and crafted movement on the maps from all duelers.
Anyways, thx for the intervied, as always was pleasure to listen, great stories as always :)
I agree with you. This video is some major weird copium or something. I honestly think a ton of people when talking about this subject are primarily looking at raw aiming ability/combat. The mental game is being completely disregarded here as nothing other than "hard work" which is absolutely wild.
@@swabbiejohn well I am most impressed with aim too when it comes to being a talented player. But we are talking here specifaly about quake duel - and this is very unique mode. Yeah we also consider other modes, but let's be honest, duel is the biggest part.
As for Rapha let's also add another factor, very important one - for a lot of years, he did not have top players to train with in NA. 80% of top players are from EU, so for the big part of his career he was also limited with this factor.
THis is literally crazy of what he achieved if you add all the obstacles he had to overcome.
ANd one more thing about being the most talented player - the consistency. It is like in F1, the best drivers are doing lap by lap by lap by lap with 0.2seconds difference if we remove tyres degradation factor.
Who is the most consistent Quake Player? Well, for me also Rapha.
We'll have to get Av3k to reply!
imo i think winz is one of the most talented FPS players ever
strenx tattoo is about quake 3 not qc
Loved this. do you guys think that if clawz was same age and started at teh same time playing and practicing quake that he would of turned into something we've never seen before? I wonder that about the talents that seem to only get the fire for a short while, and you never really see their peak because they keep getting better when they actually keep moltivation and play
Imagine Clawz playing QPL...
what about Stermy ?
We forgot about many, if we wanted to talk about everyone we legit would have to go back to late 90's and go through all of them
@@maciejkrzykowski6757 I liked that you mentioned uNkind and LeXer, overall great video and analysis.
Talent doesn't exist, skill is a mix of practice and lots of other conditions, private life and your own history etc. And practice is only a coefficient.
I think talent definitely exist to a degree. Some people learn or pickup a skill faster than others, or have faster reaction times, or in the case of sports have a more suitable physique; that is talent.
However, with hardwork, I believe a less talented person can catch up to, and maybe even surpass a talented person at something, provided the more talented person didn't put in as much work.
Every brain is different. The simple fact that all humans have different reaction times already disproves your silly argument.
@@saudude2174There is no scientific consensus on what "talent" actually is or how it is developed. Therefore, just about any statement is valid. The only silly argument here is calling other arguments silly based on your own beliefs.
@@Annifloyd Good reaction time does not mean talent. I agree that sports go reach the most extreme bodies in their own skills but i won't call it talent either. It's part of the very large amount of conditions, your physical "build" lol.
@@SleepyRickyC92 i don't think it's universal "talent" then, it's already a skill to learn faster something that suits you. I learn music and video games really fast, but i sucked at countless things especially in school. Doesn't mean anything but i'd rather say i have a good learning skill in music than "talent"
Ever heared of Vo0? ...
bro didnt even watch the video
41:00
are you dumb stupid or dumb?
@qrockz007 ?
you even got a timestamp of when we spoke about voo
@maciejkrzykowski6757 u we're right. 2 my excuse i fall asleep!!1
None of them.
The most talented place is between Thresh, ZeRo4 (known for his small playtime, used to train only a few matches a day, since you were talking about that), and equally talented f_ing Lakerman.
While cypher is a tremendous player, with specific style, his dubious usage of marijuana plays a role. He has also been playing since like when? 12?
Rapha is not a particularly super talent because if you put away his super strong timing and memory you remain with what?
These three players, though, Thresh, Lakerman and ZeRo4, when they played was like symphony in motion. Each with very different movement and beautiful play.
Pro players from modern times are out of the question also because the game became more and more timing and aiming, while other things, exactly those that show up talent, felt behind.
There is also me but I never trained enough oh the modesty.
"There is also me but I never trained enough oh the modesty." - love it 😂
@@EndpointQuake 😂