Excellent!! Still bonding and tweaking on my end but you've inspired me to get it done.. If the rain would ever stop. I only have one observation / reservation. All bonds are on point but you bonded back to main panel. I'm still on the fence with this one. No bonds after first disconnect. period. OK yea well.. Guess it's back to Ugly's and the NEC book again. You could do a whole semester collage course on grounding and bonding and I think we would just scratch the surface. Every pro I know goes by NEC and local but has a different opinion or take on it. The way I have mine is it has its own bond and not bonded back to panel. Like a pool or hot tub. 2 - 8' rods and a 6' rod horizontal at the shack.. Dunno now I'm scratching my head again. With that.. you did an excellent job. Very nice video. Only hope mine comes out as well as yours 73
The service entry panel was bonded to the house Ufer, rather than bond my system to the house Ufer, I first moved the Entry panel bond to the common point, then extended from the common point to the Ufer ground. This is okay.
See.. I had to think a minute but yes. You just dont want to inadvertently break bond or create a ground loop. ground loops can be nightmares in the shack. My house is also second owner and the 1st owner wasn't shy with tools and I had some questionable wiring to unfigure when I arrived on the scene. Ground was the first thing I looked at. 73 @@damonkj7e
Great job on the grounding. nice station you have also. where'd you get them single connectors for the #4 wire mounted on the L brackets at the tower legs?
Wow, did you drill through your concrete floor (in your cellar) to set the 8 foot ground rods? If so, do you ever wonder about bugs and things getting in from underneath your house? I guess water is not an issue since you live in a high elevation above the water table? Thanks for all the great info!
Yes, I drilled a hole for the ground rod in my office under the desk, two actually. Just put some silicone calk to seal the hole around the ground rood. No issues with bugs. The cellar floor is dirt, 3 more ground roods in the cellar.
Can you explain your equipment cooling strategy? Looks like you have some flexible conduit (such as would be found on a clothes dryer for vent). I'm thinking of doing something in this area of my shack installation. Thanks, 73 de NW7US dit dit
Ducting the hot exhaust up and away from the equipment keeps the hot air from mixing with the cold air on the intake, and therefor the equipment runs cooler. I do the same for the amplifier, the hot air is deducted up and away from the gear. This also helps dampen the air noise from the amp.
I watch everything I can on grounding, that's why I'm here. And have found some consensus and NEC rules that concur and mandate that if additional grounding electrodes are used they must be bonded back to the main panel with 6awg or >, no splices, and a min. 8" bend radius at corners {On The OUTSIDE Of The House}. !!! And not provide a direct lighting path into your house. Having said that, if your antenna is on the opposite side of the house from the main service panel as my station is. Don't you think that you are providing a very nice low-impedance shortcut to the main service panel through your shack and house? I think I would remove the 4awg leading out of the house to the arrester box and connect the large CU straps to 4 AWG or > on the outside of the house back to the main panel/electrodes. Heaven forbid a lightning strike to your tower started a fire to your house and the inspector found you were not in compliance with NEC on secondary grounding electrodes' it says Must Be as stated above. On this journey, I ran across a statement from Dave Casler ke0og, paraphrasing. 'When lighting falls from perhaps 50,000 ft in a matter of mil/secs. It doesn't ask permission and it's got a mind of its own. 73/88
Simple, you want as low impedance ground system for everything as you can get. Should a high energy event happen, you want all of your common ground circuit to rise and lower at the same time to minimize voltage differentials. Voltage differentials is what causes arcing and damage. I work in broadcasting and have many mountain top sites where we have to deal with strikes and cant go off the air. Everything from the antenna to the tower to the transmission line to power, transformers, cabinets, dummy load, all the racks and equipment in the racks is tied together with strap at least 2" wide and most of the time 4" wide and sometimes 6" wide from outside to inside creating a common circuit. Everything is silver braised and clamped or Cadwelded. It is always best to have the lowest impedance common ground circuit, you cant isolate grounds hoping it does not jump from one to the other, it just doesn't work like that. Dave is correct, that's why you have to give the energy a path to follow, give it a place to go.
Well, that would be very hard to do since I have so many points where my tower, feedline, and radio gear all tie to to the ground system along the way. So I cant answer that, I dont know. However, I am very blessed with a very low noise floor.
Its a Tashjian DX70, 70 foot tower, the mast is a 1/4" wall 80K PSI DOM 15' with 7' in the tower, 8' out of the top. A steppIR DB36 will be placed about 2' up the mast above the tower.
Damon, you did an excellent job. My only reservations are the stainless steel brackets. Stainless steel is great for hardware but a horrible conductor.
True, stainless is not nearly as good a conductor as copper or aluminum, but its still very low resistance for this purpose, much lower than the ground resistance by several orders of magnitude. Say the ground resistance is low with 5 Ohms or even with an exceptionally low 1 Ohm (NEC says
How do you avoid a quarter wavelength? And why use that thin solid copper considering skin effect? I mean, you've used braid with this in mind. Wouldn't you use copper pipe, the interior of the rod is useless.
There is RF ground and then there is electrical safety ground. I used sort, wide bonding where RF is concerned, but all grounds must be bonded together for electrical safety and surge protection, #4 solid is a good choice there.
@@damonkj7e yeah I'm talking RF of course. I don't know how you can avoid quarter wavelengths, or multiples thereof with all the bands and all these wires. It would then render the ground useless and actually cause trouble, if anything, because it's now like an aerial.
@@arconeagain Bonding of the gear uses short straps, this is for RF, to keep the chassis of the audio gear, radio, amplifier, and other equipment on the bench RF neutral. This is the only place where RF is of concern. The runs to the ground roods and between the house and service entry panel is not of consequence except for electrical surge safety. I can recommend this book for you as it will cover theses subjects in greater detail than I am willing to write here: home.arrl.org/action/Store/Product-Details/productId/133989
@@damonkj7e okay, I'll take a look. Thanks. Do you not create a ground loop by bonding between each unit when they have coaxial connections between them? Or did you have a common bus on the bench? I'll have to watch again, can't remember.
Ground loops are many times unavoidable, but if the primary path is done correctly, they the other paths have no negative effect. Example, your coax shield is a path between your gear, but a proper chassis ground bus with good low inductance strap to a common bond point will often times eliminate RF in your audio chain if this is something your fighting. Interconnect wire such as keying circuits, data cables, USB, audio cables, 12v dc power, can all have their own ground paths or chassis bonding. The electrical safety ground in the power cords is another ground path, but often times ineffective for RF, hence the bonding of the chassis for a low impedance RF ground. Loops exist, but they are only troublesome if all of the paths are poor. See my QRZ page for more photos of how I bonded all of my gear together to a common bus to deal with RF issues in the shack and with the audio gear. www.qrz.com/db/KJ7E
@@damonkj7e Thanks I guess im watching to many videos some people say your radio and amps are grounded by the plug going into the wall.Great video 73's
@@dj5243 Only outlet ground is only good for electrical shock hazard. My ground system ties in to the house Ufer and electrical ground, preventing loops.
WOW! You've got more invested in your whole station than my house costs.
I like it!
this is so nicely put together. everything makes sense and its totally worth doing it right . 👌
Very nice nice job! It was nice meeting you over the air.
Hey, thanks!
I like your shack ground rods, but now my wife wants to kmow why there is 7.5ft of ground rod dangling from the basement ceiling ;)
Excellent!! Still bonding and tweaking on my end but you've inspired me to get it done.. If the rain would ever stop.
I only have one observation / reservation. All bonds are on point but you bonded back to main panel.
I'm still on the fence with this one. No bonds after first disconnect. period. OK yea well.. Guess it's back to Ugly's and the NEC book again.
You could do a whole semester collage course on grounding and bonding and I think we would just scratch the surface. Every pro I know goes by NEC and local but has a different opinion or take on it. The way I have mine is it has its own bond and not bonded back to panel. Like a pool or hot tub. 2 - 8' rods and a 6' rod horizontal at the shack.. Dunno now I'm scratching my head again.
With that.. you did an excellent job. Very nice video.
Only hope mine comes out as well as yours
73
The service entry panel was bonded to the house Ufer, rather than bond my system to the house Ufer, I first moved the Entry panel bond to the common point, then extended from the common point to the Ufer ground. This is okay.
See.. I had to think a minute but yes.
You just dont want to inadvertently break bond or create a ground loop. ground loops can be nightmares in the shack. My house is also second owner and the 1st owner wasn't shy with tools and I had some questionable wiring to unfigure when I arrived on the scene. Ground was the first thing I looked at.
73 @@damonkj7e
Great job on the grounding. nice station you have also. where'd you get them single connectors for the #4 wire mounted on the L brackets at the tower legs?
The stainless steel L was from KF7P.com, the lug is just a standard copper ground lug you can find at hardware stores or online.
@@damonkj7e I appreciate the reply back. I will check the link. 73’s 🤙
Wow...well done! I can't think of a single way to improve this grounding/bonding setup. 73 de N2MXX in NJ
Excellent job you have a Great Ham Radio station love the Tower keep up the good work 73"
Wow, did you drill through your concrete floor (in your cellar) to set the 8 foot ground rods? If so, do you ever wonder about bugs and things getting in from underneath your house? I guess water is not an issue since you live in a high elevation above the water table? Thanks for all the great info!
Yes, I drilled a hole for the ground rod in my office under the desk, two actually. Just put some silicone calk to seal the hole around the ground rood. No issues with bugs. The cellar floor is dirt, 3 more ground roods in the cellar.
Can you explain your equipment cooling strategy? Looks like you have some flexible conduit (such as would be found on a clothes dryer for vent). I'm thinking of doing something in this area of my shack installation. Thanks, 73 de NW7US dit dit
Ducting the hot exhaust up and away from the equipment keeps the hot air from mixing with the cold air on the intake, and therefor the equipment runs cooler. I do the same for the amplifier, the hot air is deducted up and away from the gear. This also helps dampen the air noise from the amp.
I watch everything I can on grounding, that's why I'm here. And have found some consensus and NEC rules that concur and mandate that if additional grounding electrodes are used they must be bonded back to the main panel with 6awg or >, no splices, and a min. 8" bend radius at corners {On The OUTSIDE Of The House}. !!! And not provide a direct lighting path into your house.
Having said that, if your antenna is on the opposite side of the house from the main service panel as my station is. Don't you think that you are providing a very nice low-impedance shortcut to the main service panel through your shack and house? I think I would remove the 4awg leading out of the house to the arrester box and connect the large CU straps to 4 AWG or > on the outside of the house back to the main panel/electrodes. Heaven forbid a lightning strike to your tower started a fire to your house and the inspector found you were
not in compliance with NEC on secondary grounding electrodes' it says Must Be as stated above. On this journey, I ran across a statement from Dave Casler ke0og, paraphrasing. 'When lighting falls from perhaps 50,000 ft in a matter of mil/secs. It doesn't ask permission and it's got a mind of its own. 73/88
Simple, you want as low impedance ground system for everything as you can get. Should a high energy event happen, you want all of your common ground circuit to rise and lower at the same time to minimize voltage differentials. Voltage differentials is what causes arcing and damage. I work in broadcasting and have many mountain top sites where we have to deal with strikes and cant go off the air. Everything from the antenna to the tower to the transmission line to power, transformers, cabinets, dummy load, all the racks and equipment in the racks is tied together with strap at least 2" wide and most of the time 4" wide and sometimes 6" wide from outside to inside creating a common circuit. Everything is silver braised and clamped or Cadwelded. It is always best to have the lowest impedance common ground circuit, you cant isolate grounds hoping it does not jump from one to the other, it just doesn't work like that. Dave is correct, that's why you have to give the energy a path to follow, give it a place to go.
How much does the noise floor rise when you lift the ground on the radio bench? Just curious
Well, that would be very hard to do since I have so many points where my tower, feedline, and radio gear all tie to to the ground system along the way. So I cant answer that, I dont know. However, I am very blessed with a very low noise floor.
What is the height above ground, for the top of that tower?
Its a Tashjian DX70, 70 foot tower, the mast is a 1/4" wall 80K PSI DOM 15' with 7' in the tower, 8' out of the top. A steppIR DB36 will be placed about 2' up the mast above the tower.
Have you ever had a ground loop problem?
Not in the last 30 years, no.
Damon, you did an excellent job. My only reservations are the stainless steel brackets. Stainless steel is great for hardware but a horrible conductor.
True, stainless is not nearly as good a conductor as copper or aluminum, but its still very low resistance for this purpose, much lower than the ground resistance by several orders of magnitude. Say the ground resistance is low with 5 Ohms or even with an exceptionally low 1 Ohm (NEC says
How do you avoid a quarter wavelength? And why use that thin solid copper considering skin effect? I mean, you've used braid with this in mind. Wouldn't you use copper pipe, the interior of the rod is useless.
There is RF ground and then there is electrical safety ground. I used sort, wide bonding where RF is concerned, but all grounds must be bonded together for electrical safety and surge protection, #4 solid is a good choice there.
@@damonkj7e yeah I'm talking RF of course. I don't know how you can avoid quarter wavelengths, or multiples thereof with all the bands and all these wires. It would then render the ground useless and actually cause trouble, if anything, because it's now like an aerial.
@@arconeagain Bonding of the gear uses short straps, this is for RF, to keep the chassis of the audio gear, radio, amplifier, and other equipment on the bench RF neutral. This is the only place where RF is of concern. The runs to the ground roods and between the house and service entry panel is not of consequence except for electrical surge safety. I can recommend this book for you as it will cover theses subjects in greater detail than I am willing to write here: home.arrl.org/action/Store/Product-Details/productId/133989
@@damonkj7e okay, I'll take a look. Thanks. Do you not create a ground loop by bonding between each unit when they have coaxial connections between them? Or did you have a common bus on the bench? I'll have to watch again, can't remember.
Ground loops are many times unavoidable, but if the primary path is done correctly, they the other paths have no negative effect. Example, your coax shield is a path between your gear, but a proper chassis ground bus with good low inductance strap to a common bond point will often times eliminate RF in your audio chain if this is something your fighting. Interconnect wire such as keying circuits, data cables, USB, audio cables, 12v dc power, can all have their own ground paths or chassis bonding. The electrical safety ground in the power cords is another ground path, but often times ineffective for RF, hence the bonding of the chassis for a low impedance RF ground. Loops exist, but they are only troublesome if all of the paths are poor. See my QRZ page for more photos of how I bonded all of my gear together to a common bus to deal with RF issues in the shack and with the audio gear. www.qrz.com/db/KJ7E
Im confuse wouldn't that be call a looping ground.
There is no ground loop here, no.
@@damonkj7e Thanks I guess im watching to many videos some people say your radio and amps are grounded by the plug going into the wall.Great video 73's
@@dj5243 Only outlet ground is only good for electrical shock hazard. My ground system ties in to the house Ufer and electrical ground, preventing loops.
Cada equipamento precisa ter um fio ao terra.
Holy schmoo.
Lightning be like..... ❤️👄❤️