@@TeaSerpent Thank you for the answer. I have never seen any form, except for the first, "angle attack". Since I'm researching crane styles, I'd really like to see the rest. How can I contact you?
Yes and no. It can and it's probably not good for you. But they do have practices to try to minimize the damage. The human body is able to adapt to a lot of things. The bones and tissues of an athlete or of someone who does heavy manual labor are denser and have various differences from someone who sits at a computer all day. The body just adapts to the strain. However yes it can and does have negative effects and those can include things like nerve damage and vascular damage as well as inflammatory conditions. There was a study done looking at the age of death of life long teachers and practitioners of Okinawa. Karate in order to verify claims of karate promoting health and extending life expectancy. What they found is that past masters of Okinawan karate had a much shorter life expectancy compared to Okinawans who did not practice martial arts. It was theorized that practices such as limb conditioning and repetition of movements that put strain on the body led to increased inflammation which contributed to conditions causing early death. I don't know of any similar study with Chinese arts. But I expect the results would be similar. At least for the past anyways. Today conditions caused by lack of physical activity are leading causes of death. So it may be reversed in modern times. Anyway it's not good for you. But they have ways to minimize damage. They normally start out very lightly so the tissues can adjust. This guy has been doing this since he was a kid, you don't start that hard. They also traditionally use external medicinal liniments, soaks, pastes, etc as well as internal herbal medicines to promote blood flow and prevent clotting in order to speed healing and prevent small vessels from dying. So it's not good for you, but it's not as bad as you might think if done correctly. Of course no one agreed on what is correct and some people did and still do go nuts trying to be macho. There are still iron fist guys who basically turn their hand into a giant mass of scar tissues so they can smash rocks to impress people or to make money in shows. Normally those guys only do one hand because at that level you lose most feeling and your hand is to deformed for most things besides smashing. But that is old school circus sideshow stuff and that type of conditioning was often looked down on by professional guards and high level martial artists in the past. Some schools come from people who were poor and desperate and many traditional schools still contain training in "hard qigong" tricks passed down from days when members of the school had to do shows in the marketplace to get money for food. Also they had shorter life expectancies then and many Chinese arts come from gangs, villages in poor regions where clan feuds of fights over water or land rights, bandits, etc were common. For that matter construction workers, factory workers, etc. Suffer worse effects from repetitive motion damages than what this guy is likely to get from a lifetime of this training. Lrofessional athletes as well normally ruin their bodies at a young age. So not good for you, but not terrible compared to the effects of many modern jobs and practices and it is traditional and is something that originated among people with shorter lives trying to survive or make a living in a rough world. Also historically different schools and teachers debated over how much conditioning was good and how it should be done. So even centuries ago there were lots of debates on this subject. Personally I don't do heavy conditioning like this. But I've had problems with inflammatory conditions so my body doesn't react well. I've also met people who are old and did stuff like this their whole lives and never had problems from it.
@@EthanNoble It was a general study where he collected biographical information on karate practitioners in Okinawa from throughout the 20th century. So it was made up of representatives of basically all the major styles. The guy was a karateka and a doctor. He always heard about how karate makes you healthier and longer lived. So he set out to figure out exactly how much it extends your life on average. What he found was the opposite. While a few karateka are held up as examples, the majority tend to die younger than their Okinawan counterparts and often of things links to chronic inflammatory issues like heart attacks and cancer. He also adjusted the numbers to account for things like higher mortality rate due to starvation in WWII and unnatural deaths due to war or accidents. Even factoring all that in lifelong practitioners of karate tended to live shorter lives on average compared to their Okinawan contemporaries that did not practice. I can't remember the guys name, but he published his findings in a peer reviewed journal and I think he may have written a book on his study as well? Anyways a lot of martial arts use health and long life as selling points. The thing is that with any group of people you can always find some who live much longer than average and if you only hold them up as examples it can create a false impression. This is especially true in a place like Okinawa that already has an abnormally long life expectancy. Not that I'm saying you shouldn't practice. It certainly makes you stronger even if it doesn't make you live longer, and even hard conditioning and it's associated inflammatory stress is probably healthier than a modern super sedentary lifestyle. But a lot of claims made in traditional martial arts circles tend to fall apart when subjected to any academic rigor. Look up "Karate Styles: links to shortened lifespan, Dr Jason Armstrong".
Yeah it's related to Fang Chi Niang, or at least they make that claim. Really there is only a couple lines in Quanzhou who have lineage charts that trace back to Fang Qi Niang in a person to person fashion. The lineage charts for all other crane schools just trace back as far as they can and then write in Fang Qiniang on the top, or Fang Qiniang and Zheng Sichu, or if they are in Fuzhou Fang Qiniang, Zeng Sichu (her husband who is considered the 2nd generation) and Zheng Lishu (the most famous of the original generation of students in Yongchun county and who according to Fuzhou tradition all the crane styles practiced in Fuzhou trace back to. I mean in actuality there is crane material in Fuzhou which doesn't claim lineage from Fang Qiniang. But it's obscure village stuff and often contained as just a subsection of a village style. In that case it usually claims to come from some ancient Daoist immortal or some god or goddess.) As for how it's related to the Taiwanese lineage, that's a good question I wish I knew the answer. There are at least three or maybe four styles of Shi He Quan that currently exist. None of them can actually be traced directly back to Fang Qi Niang in a person to person fashion. Actually none of them can be traced farther than the last decade or two of the 19th century at best. It's possible they all come from the same source in mid to late 19th century Fuzhou. The fact is that neither this lineage nor the Taiwan lineage can be traced directly back to the lineage which probably made the name She He Quan famous as one of the "Four Famous Cranes of Fuzhou" (Feeding, Flying, Calling, Sleeping. These are actually mid to late 19th century creations resulting from crane material from Quanzhou being reimagined and mixed with local arts in Fuzhou. They aren't some ancient original crane lines as people like to pretend now.) Of course of all of those only Calling Crane is still popularly practiced in Fuzhou. Really Zong He Quan is the most popular style in Fuzhou. I guess now they just say it is sleeping crane but sleeping crane was a different lineage and some people still practice it in Putian. Flying crane is also supposedly still practiced by a few people in one county in Fuzhou but I've never seen any footage of it other than that taken during the 1980's national survey so I'm not sure if it's really being preserved. The stuff you see under that name now from Southeast Asia is a line that come from far southern Zhangzhou and probably just happens to have the same name as the famous style from Fuzhou. By famous I mean those are the styles that were famous in Fuzhou around the end of the Qing through the early Republican era. At any rate we have three or four lines which all claim lineage from Fuzhou and use the feeding crane name. There is the lineage in this video. The Taiwanese lineage which in recent years has become well known in the west. The Putian lineage. Lastly there was a teacher in the 1980's who knew flying crane which came from the instructors of what is considered to the main lineage by mainland historians. But I'm not sure if he ever passed it on and I have no idea what it looks like. I also don't have any information on the Putian style's lineage transmission other than that they claim the style was brought there from Fuzhou and that it has been practiced locally for a good century. So we have at least 3 and maybe 4 surviving styles going by that name. Of the 3 definitely surviving lines none of them look the same. Of the four 3 of them can't be connected by lineage charts and the Putian line's lineage chart is either not public or I haven't come across it. But all of them can be traced back to the very end of the Qing or the very early Republican era, but not any further. So in short I have no idea how this style, the Putian style (there should be a short clip of a bit of footage of a famous teacher of the Putian style of Feeding Crane somewhere on my channel), or the Taiwanese style relate to each other aside from them using the same name and tracing back to the same region at around the same period.
Thanks for sharing! Have an awesome day!
This guy also practices iron shin.
May I ask you - did you ever see Feeding Crane taolus? Can you help me to find them?
I don't think I've seen any footage of complete forms from any of the mainland feeding crane styles.
@@TeaSerpent Thank you for the answer.
I have never seen any form, except for the first, "angle attack".
Since I'm researching crane styles, I'd really like to see the rest.
How can I contact you?
Wouldn't all that beating on your arms and legs damage blood vessels over time?
Yes and no.
It can and it's probably not good for you. But they do have practices to try to minimize the damage.
The human body is able to adapt to a lot of things. The bones and tissues of an athlete or of someone who does heavy manual labor are denser and have various differences from someone who sits at a computer all day.
The body just adapts to the strain.
However yes it can and does have negative effects and those can include things like nerve damage and vascular damage as well as inflammatory conditions.
There was a study done looking at the age of death of life long teachers and practitioners of Okinawa. Karate in order to verify claims of karate promoting health and extending life expectancy.
What they found is that past masters of Okinawan karate had a much shorter life expectancy compared to Okinawans who did not practice martial arts.
It was theorized that practices such as limb conditioning and repetition of movements that put strain on the body led to increased inflammation which contributed to conditions causing early death.
I don't know of any similar study with Chinese arts. But I expect the results would be similar.
At least for the past anyways. Today conditions caused by lack of physical activity are leading causes of death. So it may be reversed in modern times.
Anyway it's not good for you. But they have ways to minimize damage.
They normally start out very lightly so the tissues can adjust. This guy has been doing this since he was a kid, you don't start that hard.
They also traditionally use external medicinal liniments, soaks, pastes, etc as well as internal herbal medicines to promote blood flow and prevent clotting in order to speed healing and prevent small vessels from dying.
So it's not good for you, but it's not as bad as you might think if done correctly.
Of course no one agreed on what is correct and some people did and still do go nuts trying to be macho.
There are still iron fist guys who basically turn their hand into a giant mass of scar tissues so they can smash rocks to impress people or to make money in shows. Normally those guys only do one hand because at that level you lose most feeling and your hand is to deformed for most things besides smashing. But that is old school circus sideshow stuff and that type of conditioning was often looked down on by professional guards and high level martial artists in the past.
Some schools come from people who were poor and desperate and many traditional schools still contain training in "hard qigong" tricks passed down from days when members of the school had to do shows in the marketplace to get money for food.
Also they had shorter life expectancies then and many Chinese arts come from gangs, villages in poor regions where clan feuds of fights over water or land rights, bandits, etc were common.
For that matter construction workers, factory workers, etc. Suffer worse effects from repetitive motion damages than what this guy is likely to get from a lifetime of this training. Lrofessional athletes as well normally ruin their bodies at a young age.
So not good for you, but not terrible compared to the effects of many modern jobs and practices and it is traditional and is something that originated among people with shorter lives trying to survive or make a living in a rough world.
Also historically different schools and teachers debated over how much conditioning was good and how it should be done. So even centuries ago there were lots of debates on this subject.
Personally I don't do heavy conditioning like this. But I've had problems with inflammatory conditions so my body doesn't react well. I've also met people who are old and did stuff like this their whole lives and never had problems from it.
Strengthening the limbs is not harmful to health, it is fiction. There are just techniques for how this is done.
@@TeaSerpentwhat styles did they study. As I hear no older practitioners of my style having issues
@@EthanNoble It was a general study where he collected biographical information on karate practitioners in Okinawa from throughout the 20th century.
So it was made up of representatives of basically all the major styles.
The guy was a karateka and a doctor. He always heard about how karate makes you healthier and longer lived. So he set out to figure out exactly how much it extends your life on average.
What he found was the opposite. While a few karateka are held up as examples, the majority tend to die younger than their Okinawan counterparts and often of things links to chronic inflammatory issues like heart attacks and cancer.
He also adjusted the numbers to account for things like higher mortality rate due to starvation in WWII and unnatural deaths due to war or accidents.
Even factoring all that in lifelong practitioners of karate tended to live shorter lives on average compared to their Okinawan contemporaries that did not practice.
I can't remember the guys name, but he published his findings in a peer reviewed journal and I think he may have written a book on his study as well?
Anyways a lot of martial arts use health and long life as selling points. The thing is that with any group of people you can always find some who live much longer than average and if you only hold them up as examples it can create a false impression.
This is especially true in a place like Okinawa that already has an abnormally long life expectancy.
Not that I'm saying you shouldn't practice. It certainly makes you stronger even if it doesn't make you live longer, and even hard conditioning and it's associated inflammatory stress is probably healthier than a modern super sedentary lifestyle.
But a lot of claims made in traditional martial arts circles tend to fall apart when subjected to any academic rigor.
Look up "Karate Styles: links to shortened lifespan, Dr Jason Armstrong".
Hello, How is this lineage related to the Taiwanese version, is this lineage also related to Fang chi niang ?
Yeah it's related to Fang Chi Niang, or at least they make that claim. Really there is only a couple lines in Quanzhou who have lineage charts that trace back to Fang Qi Niang in a person to person fashion. The lineage charts for all other crane schools just trace back as far as they can and then write in Fang Qiniang on the top, or Fang Qiniang and Zheng Sichu, or if they are in Fuzhou Fang Qiniang, Zeng Sichu (her husband who is considered the 2nd generation) and Zheng Lishu (the most famous of the original generation of students in Yongchun county and who according to Fuzhou tradition all the crane styles practiced in Fuzhou trace back to. I mean in actuality there is crane material in Fuzhou which doesn't claim lineage from Fang Qiniang. But it's obscure village stuff and often contained as just a subsection of a village style. In that case it usually claims to come from some ancient Daoist immortal or some god or goddess.)
As for how it's related to the Taiwanese lineage, that's a good question I wish I knew the answer.
There are at least three or maybe four styles of Shi He Quan that currently exist. None of them can actually be traced directly back to Fang Qi Niang in a person to person fashion. Actually none of them can be traced farther than the last decade or two of the 19th century at best.
It's possible they all come from the same source in mid to late 19th century Fuzhou. The fact is that neither this lineage nor the Taiwan lineage can be traced directly back to the lineage which probably made the name She He Quan famous as one of the "Four Famous Cranes of Fuzhou" (Feeding, Flying, Calling, Sleeping. These are actually mid to late 19th century creations resulting from crane material from Quanzhou being reimagined and mixed with local arts in Fuzhou. They aren't some ancient original crane lines as people like to pretend now.) Of course of all of those only Calling Crane is still popularly practiced in Fuzhou. Really Zong He Quan is the most popular style in Fuzhou. I guess now they just say it is sleeping crane but sleeping crane was a different lineage and some people still practice it in Putian. Flying crane is also supposedly still practiced by a few people in one county in Fuzhou but I've never seen any footage of it other than that taken during the 1980's national survey so I'm not sure if it's really being preserved. The stuff you see under that name now from Southeast Asia is a line that come from far southern Zhangzhou and probably just happens to have the same name as the famous style from Fuzhou. By famous I mean those are the styles that were famous in Fuzhou around the end of the Qing through the early Republican era.
At any rate we have three or four lines which all claim lineage from Fuzhou and use the feeding crane name. There is the lineage in this video. The Taiwanese lineage which in recent years has become well known in the west. The Putian lineage. Lastly there was a teacher in the 1980's who knew flying crane which came from the instructors of what is considered to the main lineage by mainland historians.
But I'm not sure if he ever passed it on and I have no idea what it looks like.
I also don't have any information on the Putian style's lineage transmission other than that they claim the style was brought there from Fuzhou and that it has been practiced locally for a good century.
So we have at least 3 and maybe 4 surviving styles going by that name. Of the 3 definitely surviving lines none of them look the same. Of the four 3 of them can't be connected by lineage charts and the Putian line's lineage chart is either not public or I haven't come across it.
But all of them can be traced back to the very end of the Qing or the very early Republican era, but not any further.
So in short I have no idea how this style, the Putian style (there should be a short clip of a bit of footage of a famous teacher of the Putian style of Feeding Crane somewhere on my channel), or the Taiwanese style relate to each other aside from them using the same name and tracing back to the same region at around the same period.
@@TeaSerpent there is a flying crane from Taiwan called Madou Flying Crane, take a look.
@@murilocaruy do you have a link ? their is only one video when i search for Madou Flying Crane which is very short almost nothing their
@@kheirsalammartialarts8542 Sure, here in this channel there's a collection of all their forms:
th-cam.com/video/F9TakRwe5H4/w-d-xo.html
@@murilocaruy nice do you speak Chinese? Do they trace their lineage to fang Xinjiang as well ?
Tameshiwari origins . . .
天桥把式光说不练！