find the integer solutions of this cubic

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ธ.ค. 2024

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  • @tonysplodge44
    @tonysplodge44 ปีที่แล้ว +72

    I've been following Prof Penn for a fairly long time, and I can't remember the last time he did polynomial long division... takes me back many decades

    • @sfdghsggsa
      @sfdghsggsa 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I can't remember the last time he wrote diagonally

  • @spaghetti1383
    @spaghetti1383 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    An intuitive substitution is u=x-y, v=xy. This leads to 3u-1 having to divide 1646=2*823 (semiprime). This creates only 4 cases for u, just 2 of which are integers. One case gives both solutions because the substitution is quadratic, the other fails produce a rational x.

  • @cyangupta2275
    @cyangupta2275 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    Here's my solution:
    Start by factoring as (x-y)(x^2+xy+y^2)=xy+61, x^2+xy+y^2 can be written as 1/2(x+y)^2+1/2(x^2+y^2) which is clearly greater than 0
    Case 1: x-y=0, this clearly has no solutions as it reduces to x^2+61=0
    Case 2: x-y>0, since x and y are integers, x-y is greater than or equal to 1 so x^2+xy+y^2≤xy+61, cancelling gives x^2+y^2≤61, checking the finite number of solutions gives (6,5),(-5,-6) as the only ones
    Case 3: x-y

    • @him21016
      @him21016 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Nice! Much simpler

  • @boluo7157
    @boluo7157 ปีที่แล้ว +69

    Another (fairly unintuitive) solution, is to multiply both sides by 27 and subtract 1 from both sides and you get
    (3x)³ + (−3y)³ + (−1)³ − 3(3x)(−3y)(−1) = 1646.
    The LHS is in the form a³ + b³ + c³ -3abc which famously factorises as (a + b + c)(a² + b² + c² - ab - bc - ca) and so the LHS can be factored as such. Then it's just matching factors that work.

    • @boluo7157
      @boluo7157 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      btw this problem is originally from the Russian maths olympiad

    • @johns.8246
      @johns.8246 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      It's still way more straightforward than Dr. Penn's method.

    • @hoangnguyennguyen6445
      @hoangnguyennguyen6445 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      nice bro

    • @AlinaKlein953
      @AlinaKlein953 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      That's classic bro

    • @echandler
      @echandler ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Consider (a + b + c)(a² + b² + c² - ab - bc - ca) = (a + b + c)[(a + b + c)² - 3(ab + bc + ca)] mod 3. The first factor = 2 (mod 3). The second = 1 (mod 3). This quickly eliminates all but one pair of factors of 1646.

  • @kavehghayour4117
    @kavehghayour4117 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    a similar proof but much less elaborate is to replace x with y +m where m is an integer and then proceed to show that permissible values of (3*m-1) are the factors of 1646 which are 1,2,823 and itself. m can only be equal to 1 and then one can easily arrive at your final solution

  • @goodplacetostop2973
    @goodplacetostop2973 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    14:53

  • @Christian_Martel
    @Christian_Martel ปีที่แล้ว +9

    I often go brain cramping when I see a long division done this way, because I’ve learned it the French way with bracket inverted and the divisor in the bracket.

    • @becomepostal
      @becomepostal ปีที่แล้ว

      Also there are a lot of tricks to find the result without long division.

    • @nHans
      @nHans ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I'm also guessing you learnt math in French. So the fact that he's speaking in English must be really giving you a migraine, am I right? Which makes me wonder ... 🤔

    • @Christian_Martel
      @Christian_Martel ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@nHans Absolutely not, I've learned English many years ago and I'm very confortable doing maths in English, thanks for asking. It's just happening with the long division method. I didn't know this "other" method. Actually, as a good Canadian, in science I know four languages: French, English, SI units and Imperial Units! :D

    • @yuseifudo6075
      @yuseifudo6075 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@nHans
      Wtf is this reply

  • @Deepnil
    @Deepnil ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thank you Micheal !!

  • @becomepostal
    @becomepostal ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Well done.

  • @JosuaKrause
    @JosuaKrause ปีที่แล้ว +5

    in order for dividing by 3b-1 to be allowed it must not be zero or 3b=1 must not hold. since b must be an integer 3b=1 cannot hold. so dividing is fine. I felt it would be important to point that out to justify the division

  • @Szynkaa
    @Szynkaa ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I did this by putting y=x+k, then few things cancel out and we are left with quadratic, where y is variable and k is parameter. We calculate delta and notice only for k=1,2,3,4,5 it is positive (some boring analysis- we factor out (3k-1)*(cubic trash) and then look at derivative) but even more- straight checking says only for k=1 it is perfect square. Therefore using quadratic formula we get y=5 or y= (-6) which leads us to final solution

  • @devotion7890
    @devotion7890 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Nice and interesting video. Could you please make more videos about number theory or Diophantine equations?

  • @Dagestanidude
    @Dagestanidude ปีที่แล้ว +2

    You can represent 61 as (4)^3-3 and find that for positive arguments the equation is solved for y with a remainder of 2 when divided by 3 and x divisible by 3, and immediately find (x;y) equal to (6;5), prove that for large x,y the equation has no solutions, because the left part will invariably be larger than the right. Cases with negative arguments are easy

  • @manucitomx
    @manucitomx ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thank you, professor.

  • @dabozz88
    @dabozz88 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    If you look at the factorization of the difference of cubes you can make some inferences.
    (x-y)(x^2 +xy +y^2) = xy + 61
    If you assume (x-y) is an integer since it must be due to the nature of the problem, you can do the following cases
    Case 1: (x-y)=1
    (x^2 +xy +y^2) = xy + 61
    x^2 + (x+1)^2 = 61
    Which or knowing it's a sum of squares what gets you 61? 5^2=25 and 6^2=36. Also realizing that squaring negative numbers also works, but the difference condition requires x to be greater than y.
    Case 2: (x-y)=2
    2(x^2 +xy +y^2) = xy + 61
    2x^2 + 2y^2 = 61 - xy
    x^2 + y^2 = 61/2 - xy/2
    Where we see that x and y can't be 0 because you can't have a sum of squares that gives you 30.5.
    Then we know the minimum it can be is
    X=3, y=1, which gives us 10 ≠ 29.5
    Incrementing
    X=4, y=2, yielding 20 ≠ 26.5
    X=5, y=3, but this goes over at 34 ≠ 23
    So there is no solution at (x-y)=2
    We can keep trying the cases but we end up with
    (x-y)=z
    x^2 + y^2 = 61/z +xy* (1-z)/z
    Where we know that x or y can't be 0, z can't be zero. We also know that there is an answer for z=1 where x=6 so the integers can only go from 0 to 6 or their negative counterparts.
    It'd be interesting to try where Z is less than 0.

  • @tahirimathscienceonlinetea4273
    @tahirimathscienceonlinetea4273 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Hi, Michael your method is amazing and beneficial. Here's my method which is easy method:set x=y+m it's giving a polynomial p(y)=(y^2)(3m-1)+3m(m-1).y+m^3-61=0 let calculating Delta we find Something in terms of m=a perfect square ⬛️ >0 so then if m>6 delta is

  • @urosstevanovic3516
    @urosstevanovic3516 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    This can be factored, motivated by those two cubes into the form a^3 + b^3 + c^3 - 3abc = (a+b+c)(a^2 + b^2 + c^2 - ab - bc - ca). After multipying by 27, and using the formula for a=3x, b=-3y and c=-1, this factors as (a+b+c)(a^2 + b^2 + c^2 - ab - bc - ca) = 27*61 - 1. Now, this again doesn't seem to have any nice way of solving, but the brute force is not so bad. Firstly the "bigger" parentheses is always positive and therefore the other one has to be positive. Also the first one is smaller than the second one so it leaves us only a few cases, again a lot of work, but the problem doesn't have any "nice" solution.

  • @heldercomp
    @heldercomp ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Easily xy0. If (x,y) is a solution then clearly (-y,-x) is too. But if xy0. But in this case, clearly x>y.
    Since x2-xy+y2>xy, we have xy+61 > (x-y)xy. We can consider 2 cases:
    1) x-y>1 => xyy y2+y-30=0 and hence the only solutions are (6,5) and (-5,-6).

    • @hughcaldwell1034
      @hughcaldwell1034 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      This is more or less what I did. Penn's solution seems unnecessarily convoluted and unintuitive.

    • @heldercomp
      @heldercomp ปีที่แล้ว

      @@hughcaldwell1034 Totally agree. The much more natural change of variables would be a=x-y and b= xy.
      Since x2+y2= a2+2b, the main equation turns into:
      a(a2+3b)=b+61 => a3+b(3a-1)=61 =>
      27a3+27b(3a-1)=1647 =>
      (3a)3-1+27b(3a-1)=1646
      Now, clearly (3a-1) divides 1646=2x823, and the rest follows as his solution. The way he presents us seems a bit unnatural.

  • @Aditya_196
    @Aditya_196 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thanks for the video i was stuck in a similar problem now i know how to tackle

  • @mayankmrinal
    @mayankmrinal ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Wake up early morning and watch a math video. Keeps you alert while day❤

  • @Ny0s
    @Ny0s ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Multiplying by 27 out of nowhere ^^ pretty creative

    • @luisaleman9512
      @luisaleman9512 ปีที่แล้ว

      It's not out of nowhere. He said he wanted to divide by 3b-1, so in order to have a nice division he wanted the b^3 to be (3b)^3 or 27b^3

  • @mathboy8188
    @mathboy8188 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    In what's almost the same, can choose integer a s.t. x = y + a in order to kill the y^3 term, leaving a quadratic in y with coefficients in a. Even though a is unknown, can in principle solve that quadratic for y, and a & y both being integers creates hard constraints on their possibilities.
    Given x,y integers s.t. x^3 - y^3 = xy + 61, let a = x - y.
    Then 3a y^2 + 3a^2 y + a^3 = y^2 + ay + 61, so (3a - 1) y^2 + (3a^2 - a) y + (a^3 - 61) = 0.
    Thus y^2 + a y + Q = 0, where Q = (a^3 - 61)/(3a - 1).
    a & y integers => Q an integer.
    Q = (a^3 - 61)/(3a - 1) = a^2/3 + a/9 + 1/27 - (1646/27)/(3a - 1), so
    27 Q = 9a^2 + 3a + 1 - 1646/(3a - 1).
    Since everything there is an integer, and (3a - 1) | 1646, so using 1646 = 2(823), 823 a prime, gives:
    (3a - 1) in { 1, 2, 823, 1646 }.
    Thus (3a - 1) in { 2, 1646 } via congruence mod 3, so a = 1 or a = 1647/3 = 549, so a in {1, 549}.
    Have y^2 + a y + Q = 0 where Q = (a^3 - 61)/(3a - 1), and a in {1, 549}.
    If a = 549, then 3a - 1 = 1646, so Q = ((549)^3 - 61)/(3(549) - 1) = 100,528.
    Then y^2 + 549 y + 100,528 = 0.
    Discriminant = 549^2 - 4(100,528) = 10^4 { 5.49^2 - 4(10.0528) } < 10^4 { 6^2 - 4(10.0528) } < 0,
    so 2 complex roots, so a = 549 can't work.
    If a = 1, then Q = ((1)^3 - 61) / (3(1) - 1) = -60/2 = -30, so y^2 + y - 30 = 0, so (y - 5)(y + 6) = 0.
    Thus y in { 5, -6 }, and since x = y + a, get two possible solutions y=5, x=6 or y=-6, x=-5.
    Checking:
    x^3 - y^3 ?=? xy + 61
    6^3 - 5^3 ?=? (6)(5) + 61
    216 - 125 ?=? 30 + 61
    216 - 125 = 91.
    x^3 - y^3 ?=? xy + 61
    (-5)^3 - (-6)^3 ?=? (-6)(-5) + 61
    6^3 - 5^3 = (6)(5) + 61 (as before).
    SOLUTION: y=5, x=6 or y=-6, x=-5.

  • @tomholroyd7519
    @tomholroyd7519 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    multiplying by 27 was a bit like magic

    • @lgooch
      @lgooch ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I agree, I would not have seen that.

  • @stephenhamer8192
    @stephenhamer8192 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    My first thought was "complete the cube" and hope to get some kind of factorisation on the left and a number on the right. Completing the cube gives:
    (x - y)^3 = -3x^2.y + 3x.y^2 + xy +61 = 61 - xy.[3(x - y) - 1]
    Subtract 1 on the left and it factorises as [(x - y) - 1][ some other junk]. Hmm, that (x - y) - 1 is kinda like 3(x - y) - 1 on the right. 💡Multiply by 27 before subtracting 1, gives (after a little rearrangement):
    [3(x - y) - 1][9(x - y)^2 + 3(x - y) + 1] + 27.xy.[3(x - y) - 1] = 27.61 - 1 = 1646
    Or:
    [3(x - y) - 1][9(x - y)^2 + 3(x - y) + 1 + 27.xy] = 1646
    Which is the factorisation we need
    Thus 3(x - y) - 1 = (+/-)1, (+/-)2, (+/-)823, or (+/-)1646. Solve for x - y (which must be an integer), then find x (and hence y) from 9(x - y)^2 + 3(x - y) + 1 + 27.xy = quotient of the value of x - y in 1646
    Sorta like bo luo's solution below, only a lot more pedestrian

  • @General12th
    @General12th ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi Dr. Penn!

  • @Vladimir_Pavlov
    @Vladimir_Pavlov ปีที่แล้ว

    Another way is possible to solve the equation y^3-x^3 = y*x-61 =0 in integers. It is not difficult to see that the variables x and y must have different parity: if x is even, then y is odd, and vice versa. Then, if we write y=x+a, then a must be an odd integer. Substituting this into the original equation, we get a quadratic equation with respect to x with the parameter a:
    (3*a+1)*x^2 +(3*a^2 +a)*x+a^3 +61 =0.
    Its discriminant D(a)= -3*a^4 +2*a^3 +a^2 is 732*a - 244.
    Examining D(a), for example, graphically, we find that D(a)>0 for odd integer values a = -1, -3, -5, but only for a= -1 is the square of an integer.
    So, a= -1. The quadratic equation is reduced to the form x^2 - x-30=0.
    x=6, y=5 & x= -5, y= -6.

  • @Maths_3.1415
    @Maths_3.1415 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Nice solution :)

  • @真正的粉丝-d5y
    @真正的粉丝-d5y ปีที่แล้ว +2

    why the maximum power is 3 not 2 .There is no general solution to this type of problem

  • @Anokosciant
    @Anokosciant ปีที่แล้ว +10

    ah yes, the solutions of a function

  • @kpaasial
    @kpaasial ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Not related to this but are you going to cover the new proof of the Pythagorean theorem that is supposed to be non-circular?

  • @elifalk8544
    @elifalk8544 ปีที่แล้ว

    One thing you should ALWAYS do at the end of these videos is double check all solutions against the original equation.

  • @daniellosh1015
    @daniellosh1015 ปีที่แล้ว

    x^3 - y^3 =xy+61 implies (3x-3y-1)(+ve factor in x, y) = 2x823, 3x-3y-1=2 gives the two solutions. No integer solution for the other factor.

  • @isura.m
    @isura.m ปีที่แล้ว

    What if 3b - 1 is negative?

  • @fryguy2009
    @fryguy2009 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Why must 2 mod 3 apply?

    • @clifordinda1847
      @clifordinda1847 ปีที่แล้ว

      To examine only the factors you need. To save on time and energy

    • @fryguy2009
      @fryguy2009 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@clifordinda1847 I understand its utility. I just don’t understand why 2 mod 3 in particular. The answer is probably staring me in the face…..

    • @RexxSchneider
      @RexxSchneider ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@fryguy2009 At 9:58 we are trying to narrow down the set of possible values for (3b-1) where b is an integer. If you consider the set of _all_ possible values of (3b-1), you get 2 when b=1, 5 when b=2, then 8, 11, 14, etc. What those all have in common is that they leave a remainder of 2 when divided by 3, so they are the set of integers congruent to 2 (mod 3) by definition. Does that answer your question?

    • @luisaleman9512
      @luisaleman9512 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@fryguy2009 that's because 3b-1 (mod 3) = -1 = 2, so you know that your factor must have a remainder of 2 when divided by 3.

    • @fryguy2009
      @fryguy2009 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@luisaleman9512 thank you. I see it now. Obtuse of me.

  • @bradhoward
    @bradhoward ปีที่แล้ว

    Why can’t 3b - 1 be a negative integer?

  • @urielozer
    @urielozer ปีที่แล้ว +2

    why dont chack negative options for 3b-1? Like -1,-2 ...

    • @Milan_Openfeint
      @Milan_Openfeint ปีที่แล้ว +1

      There don't seem to be solutions coming from that but yes, e.g. -4 is a valid factor of 6584.

    • @JamesLewis2
      @JamesLewis2 ปีที่แล้ว

      He showed on the previous board that 6584/(3b−1) is positive.

  • @shruggzdastr8-facedclown
    @shruggzdastr8-facedclown ปีที่แล้ว

    @M. Penn:
    If you're multiplying both sides by 4, shouldn't the initial b on the lefthand side have a 4 in front of it, or am I mistaken?

  • @prag9582
    @prag9582 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    From (x-y)(x^2+y^2) = 61 => x^2+y^2 x^2 x = -5 => (x^2+6) = 31 is a solution

  • @saj_f0
    @saj_f0 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Isn't b a integer ? So u have to consider the negative factors of 6584 .

    • @lazyvector
      @lazyvector ปีที่แล้ว +4

      27a²+(3b+2)² is always positive. You can't divide 6584 by negative number, the equation won't have any solutions then.

    • @saj_f0
      @saj_f0 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@lazyvector oh I got it ☺️☺️ thx ❤️

  • @davidblauyoutube
    @davidblauyoutube ปีที่แล้ว +1

    First! Great solution, too.

  • @eiseks3410
    @eiseks3410 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I think these number theory problems start to get boring. Maybe it's better to focus on more advanced mathematics, not only highschool problems

    • @General12th
      @General12th ปีที่แล้ว

      Is this a not-so-subtle brag?

    • @echandler
      @echandler ปีที่แล้ว

      Some of these "high school" problems are more interesting than you might think. Consider integer solutions for a^2 + ab + b^2 = N.

  • @Craznar
    @Craznar ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Just for fun I asked GPT4 to solve the problem, and it came up with the same answers in a far easier way, but I think it made an invalid assumption.
    It did the first step the same -> (x - y)(x^2 + xy + y^2) = xy + 61
    But then it did two cases:
    Case 1 : x - y = 1 -> solving for x and y gave (x, y) = (6, 5) and (-5, -6)
    Case 2 : x^2 + xy + y^2 = 1 -> solving for x and y gave (x,y) = {(1,0),(0,1),(-1,0),(0,-1)}
    It then tested both cases and found case 2 offered no valid solutions.
    I think it assumed that xy+61 was prime somehow.

    • @elvistheawesome4864
      @elvistheawesome4864 ปีที่แล้ว

      Gpt4 is still far away from human intelligence there are many problems that it fail to solve and give wrong answers

    • @markbracegirdle7110
      @markbracegirdle7110 ปีที่แล้ว

      That's impressive.

    • @MichaelPennMath
      @MichaelPennMath  ปีที่แล้ว +3

      It's not actually *doing* the problem the way, say, Wolfram would. This is just cobbling things together that look like they fit, that's why you got that weird first case.
      -Stephanie
      MP Producer, Editor

    • @clickaccept
      @clickaccept ปีที่แล้ว

      x-y=1 has an infinite number of solutions other than those given.

    • @Neodynium.the_permanent_magnet
      @Neodynium.the_permanent_magnet ปีที่แล้ว

      GPT just fits some stuff based on its likeness of being here.
      The likeness is based upon the billions of data in has ingested, and MSE is part of it.
      There is no reasoning.
      Yet.