Great video! Today, some people that hand load shotgun shells use plugs in hollow based slugs to prevent the wad from getting blown up into the cavity and destroyed. These plugs are often made of "toilet paper puree", just TP and water mixed to a thick pulp and packed in the base, then allowed to dry, or placed in the oven at about 350F till dry(bonus: the slug gets annealed with this method). Not the same primary purpose, but still plugs in bases in non-historic modern ammo. Keep up the good work.
@@papercartridges6705 Not sure how much you watch the Taufledermous channel, but he shows it on there with a few slugs. I think one of the ones he shows it with might be a .69 cal Delvine-Burton-Mine bullet that they fire from a 12GA, surprisingly precise and stable in flight compared to other 12GA slugs
@@epichistorymaker1888 If you really want to. They would be more like fiber cushion wads. The easiest way to make over powder or over shot wads is to get an arts and crafts hole punch(0.75" for 12GA) and just punch them out of thin cardboard, like a cereal box or something. Obviously you need whatever size punch fits what you're making wads for. For 12Ga, I use a 1"X1" square paper towel "patch" for my over powder wad. Just center it up on the hull mouth and put whatever is next(shot wad/cup, cork, fiber wad, ect...) on top of the patch and load it in the hull like loading a patched round ball in a muzzle loader. It doesn't take up any room in the hull, it's cheap(nearly free, or free if you take napkins or paper towels from somewhere), it's gone before it leave the barrel, and it doesn't interfere with the skirt functioning on the shot wad/cup. See Bubba Rountree Outdoors videos for the "paper towel patch" and other great shotgun reloading stuff. If you're doing muzzle loader or BP cartridges, the correct size punch and thin cardboard, felt, or cork are usually best. I use felt over powder wads in muzzle loader, but whatever you like should be just fine. If you really really want to use the TP-pulp fiber-wad idea, there are multiple ways to do it. You could make sheets out of the pulp, however thick you want, then punch out the wads when it's dry. Or, you could use something with the proper diameter as a mold, and make them however thick you want. See taufledermouse videos to see the TP-pulp in use. Hope that helps, good luck.
Funny - we used to collect bullets and the Williams bullet was called a "cleaner" and was thought to be used to help scrape out the barrel - you learn something every day - thank you
YEARS ago, I had a H&R Huntsman .58 caliber muzzel loader, and did some experimentation with different bullets. At that time, a person could buy 58 mini bullets with different thickness skirts. The thinnest skirted bullets would expand into the rifling and stabilize just fine, but as I increased the powder charges the thin skirt started to flare out as it exited the muzzle, almost looking like an umbrella when 150 grains of FFF goex was behind it. 40 grains was fine, but 140 grains demanded the thicker bullet skirt. I never used a plug, though, relying on gas pressure to expand the skirt.BTW the rifle didn't survive without stretching so much I sold it for junk price to a guy who said He could fix it!
I found your information about old guns and ammo super interesting and I Thank You Most Kindly! I have a Hawken replica 50 cal. But my favorite is my N. Starr 1829 69cal. Army issue I restored years ago. I have the original ram rod and bayonet and everything is stamped US. Along the line most likely in the 1840s from what I’ve researched, the military converted it to cap and ball. It shoots amazingly well and I use .620 ball at present. I had a gunsmith check and clean the bore, which wasn’t too bad for sitting a hundred years or more. It was found in a closet by a friends mother when she was 10, about a century ago, in a house being torn down in Delaware. The barrel was bent slightly and I straightened it out using the wooden vice on my old work bench. I’m a cabinetmaker by trade and with the vice and some wooden wedges it came out just fine. Walnut stock and a brass insert where it was converted. I do wish it was still flintlock but historically it’s just fine. According to research most all guns and rifles available were put into service during the Civil War. So this gun was only 32 years old when Sumpter was fired upon. Sure has a strong spring! Can’t break in combat I suppose but it takes a manly pull to cock it. I live about 65 miles east of Gettysburg, which has always been a favorite place to visit. My GGGrandfather volunteered for three term in the Calvary and one of the battles he fought was Antietam. My Grandfather was supposed to inherit his sword, medal and papers but upon his death in 1912 someone grabbed everything. My Grandfather was 20 years old then. I do have his picture my Grandfather took in 1909 or 10 sitting in his rocker on his porch. I have his rocker which I restored. Well I do believe I’ve buttoned quite enough and Thank You Again! I’ve subscribed! Many Blessings! DaveyJO in Pennsylvania
Huzzah Brett. Great presentation of a complex mix of history and mechanics. The British also found the wooden or clay plug to keep the bullets in shape for their need to ship them around the world in all sea states and rumbling hundreds of miles in wooden bullock carts etc. before them tumbling about in the soldier’s pouches for days and weeks. More an incidental benefit than a planned one. It displays the difference between a military need and a target shooter’s. The Burton style can be made to be more accurate than the Pritchett style but only when hand fitted to size. An overview of the Austrian rifle musket compression bullet and why it was replaced in service would be good to hear but is a digression from your ACW theme. Also the French/Belgian/Russian etc. rifle musket bullets, but that is an ask too far I dare say. Well done.
Very interesting video. I never knew that there was so much backstory to the development of the Minie ball. The cut away from the pillar rifle was an excellent cut scene.
No boredom here, really interesting and well presented reasoning for the plug/cup bullet. I'd seen them in museums, had guessed why, but wasn't sure you have both the history and the practical experience.
Could you boost your mic gain slightly? I normally keep my volume set to 35 for TH-cam, but on your video's I have to increase it to 60 to hear you clearly. And I really appreciate all the information your are presenting. I do have a small question, I saw an old brass .73 cal Minie ball mould at an estate sale, the patent date on it was 1871. Have you ever seen one of those before?
Yeah I noticed it after the upload finished, that the audio is way too low. I am still figuring this stuff out. Until recently I was still using my iPhone microphone! Next time I think it will be much better.
Sorry for the online translator) Russia made the same mistake. For the rifle of the 1854 model, the Peters-Timmerhans bullet without an expander was adopted. During the tests, it proved to be better than the Minié bullet. But on the battlefield, everything turned out much sadder. As a result, the Minié bullet was adopted for the rifle of 1856) P.S. Thank you for your videos, they are very informative and entertaining)
I have several black powder revolvers and love them. I've been shooting them for over three decades but I would kill to get my hands on a Civil War era reproduction rifle. The problem is the price point. I appreciate videos like this because you have done research so one day I may be able to use this to my advantage. Well done!
Just keep looking, especially on strange places or for names that are slightly off of what it should be. I just got my Enfield reproduction for $700, brand new with bayonet. A guy had it hanging on the wall in his cabin for the last 30 years, never shot it. It was advertised locally for $500 but I felt bad stealing it at that price! 😅
Absolutely fascinating video. I ordered some Pritchet style bullets from you roughly six months ago. I have not had a chance to get down to the range and try them. I'm really looking forward to it though. I live and Enola Pennsylvania near Harrisburg. I had asked you about using wooden plugs and you had mentioned to see if they work in my Springfield. I will be sure to let you know. Thank you again for such a great video. On another side note, my rifle is a reproduction. The bore has some piting and rust (my improper storage 15 years ago). I would like to know your view on either fire lapping the barrel or having it rebored.
Shoot it first and see what it does before you try any aggressive cleaning efforts or consider getting it relined. I have some rifles with moderate pitting and they still shoot with surprising accuracy. The worst places for pitting is at the breech or at the muzzle. A few dark spots midway down the bore may not cause too much trouble. Then again, they might. Sometimes pitting will want to rip the paper off patched bullets. Only way to know is to try it.
@@papercartridges6705 I will definitely try them before taking any drastic measures. Thank you for the advice. The pitting I have noticed is halfway down the barrel.
Excellent video. I have 2 Snider Rifles with different bore sizes. The long rifle is smaller diameter and the carbine is larger. I found that using wooden plugs in a minie bullet that has been compressed/swaged to a larger diameter is extremely accurate in the Carbine @50 yards in 24 ga. brass hulls. After watching this video, I hope to try the same in the long rifle which is very accurate using a .585 round ball in 24 ga. cheddite hulls. Buying a .585 minie bullet mould and handles is so expensive as to be prohibitive for me, so I will use my .578 mould with wooden plugs, but not swaged to a larger size, and also swaged + a wooden plug as a test for comparison.
Great video. Hollow based bullets recently made my life a lot easier. I have a 1877 colt DA in 41colt. Since i load 38 colt with hollow base bullets in my colt navy conversion. Long story short I bought a cylinder for the 1877 that was in for 38 Colt. But the barrel is in 41colt .386. The bullets expanded perfectly from .357 to .386. So just by changing a cylinder I can shoot two different calibers through this revolver.
Great video, very educational.l have a 58 cal enfield 2 bands rifle and I’m using a .560 Pritchett mould , I want to try wooden plugs which are very hard to find I have been told that.560 bullet doesn’t need a plug Looking forward to hearing from you Alain
It depends on the thickness of paper you’re using for the patch. I think .560 may be too small to expand without a plug. The historic Pritchett bullet was a .568 diameter, and when rolled up into the cartridge, it came out to .576 or about one thousandth of an inch smaller than the bore. These didn’t need a plug since the bullet only needed to expand a small amount.
I enjoyed this video Brett, also I have taken notes to hopefully improve my results in the sport of military muzzle loaders. Many years or decades of trial and error.
Great show. You give out some interesting data on your shows. I've been watching you channel for about six months. The question I have for you is: Where did you get that Ordnance insignia you have sewn to your kepi? I am a retired Ordnance Chief Warrant Officer 3 and I want one for my cap when I go out to a SASS Match. Keep up the Good work.
And speaking of plugs, you should plug that amazing book of yours more in your videos. It is an exceptional wealth of information and one I have read several times to absorb the data. Plug that rascal and the others you wrote as well! Place a link in the video description to your website, where viewers can purchase the books.
I absolutely love black powder era guns but I would apreaciate a video testing in ballistic gel as not many people know damage the slugs can cause I fired few guns myself some real shoulder thumper too no pain no gain lol greetings from uk 🇬🇧👍🦊🐾
It is my understanding that the avg. engagement distance between American Civil War infantrymen was 70 to 100 yards. In addition most infantrymen whether Union or Confederate were not well trained in marksmanship. Therefore the potential increase in accuracy and/or range of the rifled musket over the smooth bore was largely irrelevant because of inadequate training and resulting close engagement distances.
You are absolutely correct. They slugged it out up close because of the lack of training. Even so, there was an inexplicable optimism in the Ordnance Department, which kept assuming that training programs would somehow (magically?) be implemented and soldiers would become better long distance shots, so they kept producing rifles and ammo for long range.
I got an IDEA from one of the other community channels "I will Try" I will fill My Minie's skirts in their paper cartridges with "my DIY bore butter" as grease will flow under gas expansion but Not Compress in size similar to a historic wooden plug? "I Think?". This will lead to fast loads as if the ball is against the charge once tapped home easily, it's done, and it will drop down easily, "I Hope?" I noted the historic "Plugs" did Not all touch the Inside of their cone. As a hydraulics and other tech, this will cause desired effects on the obturation of the lead skirts! The plug with or Without an air gap would become an inside out driving band sealing the gasses while grabbing the rifling, causing better ranges, accuracy, and consistency with less powder and lower production costs using the easily available tech of this period. "I think" a grease plug will help with fouling? or make it Worse? Can't wait to try! Thanks for the Info! and Ideas!
I grew up down south, and my families have or had a 'family cannon' and old flintlocks, mostly hand me downs. What I was told, was, hand cast lead rifle bullets can be crumbly, or brittle, and could fall apart on firing resulting in just a cloud of lead to come out. They found that a wooden plug, a very compressible material, could buffer the explosion of the powder and help the bullet to hold together.
Hey Brett, I've written you an email about this but I guess I ask here too. While reading your fantastic book "The English Cartridge" I came across you mentioning Fidelity-brand onion skin paper made in Germany on page 242 (Appendix). As I am too reconstructing historical cartidges for my own shooting, I'm in constant search for a better paper. However, whilst immediately looking up the paper you mentioned I was unable to find it under "Fidelity onion skin paper" or under its possible german name (I live in Germany so it would be ideal for me). Could you give me the exact product name or something along that line?
If I remember rightly, one iteration of the .455 Webley ammunition had wooden cores, for a different reason. It obviously worked because the Geneva Convention killed it !
@@papercartridges6705I suspected you used that. Thank you! Now just need to find a local supplier. Its tricky as the "normal" cotton paper that people use for paper cartridges is to thick for the 13,9mm family of rifles. (I know the one you linked is wood pulp but we know that finding~10lbs cotton paper is nearly impossible)
Sometimes you can find a small lot of old rag typewriter paper on eBay or Etsy in the states. I’ve also known people to buy old deteriorated original books, to cannibalize for paper patches.
@@CrimeVid You're probably thinking of some conflation of .303 Mk.VII and its light aluminium/wood/whatever's handy and cheap tip filler (tail heavy for accuracy, violently unstable when it hits something), .303 Mk.III the very unpleasant hollow point that made continental types cry, and .455 Mk.III the flying ashtray that suffered a similar fate.
Brett, a question: I've heard and i can't remember where .... that the un-plugged Civil War bullets generated less muzzle velocity than equivalent plugged bullets, because the expanding gasses of shooting took longer to expand the un-plugged projectile. I also see service charge velocities all over the place, with Union Springfield loads quoted as avout a thousand FPS, and Imperial British Enfield liads as about 1400 FPS. Please advise your opinion of all this. Great video, i really enjoy your clear explanations that cut through the jingoistic nonsense. Cheers, Gus
Plug bullets do expand faster and tend to have higher velocities, partly due to capturing more of the propellant gas, but primarily because (with a few exceptions) they were shot using a paper patch. This meant they could be kicked up to higher velocities without leaving a smear of lead streaked down the barrel. Essentially they were doing the same thing the copper jacket on a modern bullet does. The P/53 Enfield had a velocity of 1265, against 950 to 1000 with the Springfield.
@papercartridges6705 ah right, I understand now. Thank you for explaining that. Did the patched bullets have those drag- inducing grooves also? Or were they smooth-sided?
@robertstallard7836 thanks for that info. I assumed the paper patch unravelled on exit due to it being counter-rolled onto the bullet v the rifling spin. Glad to learn more, cheers
I've followed up your original videos . Really enjoyed you books so keep up the good work. It's easier in the uk to use Pyrodex as to use black powder one needs an exposive permit which entails various special rules for storage etc.
Why do have many Bulltes paper wrappings directly to the Bullet and why do many people refuse to adapt them in recreating the cartridges as you do with the vertterli rifle?
How did any slight off-centeredness of the plug after firing affect accuracy? It would seem that even the slightest off-centeredness of the plug would ruin stability.
Great video! However the information on the Williams bullet was a bit incorrect. The plunger in the base of the bullet held three, concaved, zinc washers. Upon discharge the plunger would flatten the washers, forcing them to take the rifling. The bullet was not meant to expand. The side effect of the washers was to scrape powder fouling from the rife barrel. Maybe a new video on the Williams "cleaner" bullet may be called for?
I did a video on Ministry for History channel. You're *very* close about the Williams. There were three types. The first type had two (not three) concave discs (though to be fair, his actual patent did say there could be one, two, three, or five, but the version sold to the US government had two). Those flattened like you said, but their purpose was to trap all the propellant gas. The bullet did expand. Type 2 and 3 added the T shaped pin plunger, that forced the bullet to expand mechanically, similar to the wooden plugs used in English bullets. The purpose of the washers and pin etc were never primarily to scrape any fouling; Williams never touts them as such in his patents, or his correspondence with the War Department. But because the bullet expanded much faster than the old regulation bullet, they kept more of the barrel clean, leading to the "cleaner bullet" misnomer that endures today.
So... would it be accurate to compare the plugs of 19th century bullets to the polymer tips of modern Hornady bullets? The polymer isn't (strictly) necessary for expansion, but it does aid expansion while also ensuring the expansion is regular?
With the Italian shallow rifling, it’s more trial and error to see what each particular gun will (or will not) shoot well. There doesn’t seem to be any consistent solution. A Pritchett with a plug worked good in my Italian rifle but not my friends.
Hello Sir, I have a Pedersoli Enfield P58 in .577 and NOE bullet mould for .550 Enfield bullets. Haven't shot it until today because in Germany you have limited ranges where shooting with black powder is allowed. At the moment I am prepparing some P1861 Enfield cartridges for storage. Should I make them with the clay plug or does the .550 Bullet also work in rilfed muskets made on modern maschiens? I am asking because making of that clay plugs is not that easy. The dried plug has to be fired and burned to be hard enough to spread the bullet. What's your opionion? Greeting from Bavaria/Germany .... Johnny
Very informative video. I do have one question though is there any advantage of a clay plug over a wood plug? The last time I received Pritchet cartridges from you (some time ago) they had clay plugs. One of these days I'll have to stop by the shop as I'm only 45 minutes away.
Cheapness if making them in industrial quantities.Also free of changes in size and shape with changes in temperature and humidity. The British clay plugs were not fired but made from sintered fired clay powder, baked but not at firing temperatures.
Yes and even earlier than that. But that was when they were first invented. It was 1844 when Whitworth revolutionized engineering and manufacturing with his micrometer, which was relatively cheap to produce and was available to the factory workman on a large scale.
Great video! Today, some people that hand load shotgun shells use plugs in hollow based slugs to prevent the wad from getting blown up into the cavity and destroyed. These plugs are often made of "toilet paper puree", just TP and water mixed to a thick pulp and packed in the base, then allowed to dry, or placed in the oven at about 350F till dry(bonus: the slug gets annealed with this method). Not the same primary purpose, but still plugs in bases in non-historic modern ammo. Keep up the good work.
I never knew that! Learned something new. If it works, it works!
@@papercartridges6705 Not sure how much you watch the Taufledermous channel, but he shows it on there with a few slugs. I think one of the ones he shows it with might be a .69 cal Delvine-Burton-Mine bullet that they fire from a 12GA, surprisingly precise and stable in flight compared to other 12GA slugs
@@lurch789 depends on if they were water dropped or air cooled. Either way, it doesn't hurt in this application.
Can you make over powder wads that way?
@@epichistorymaker1888 If you really want to. They would be more like fiber cushion wads. The easiest way to make over powder or over shot wads is to get an arts and crafts hole punch(0.75" for 12GA) and just punch them out of thin cardboard, like a cereal box or something. Obviously you need whatever size punch fits what you're making wads for. For 12Ga, I use a 1"X1" square paper towel "patch" for my over powder wad. Just center it up on the hull mouth and put whatever is next(shot wad/cup, cork, fiber wad, ect...) on top of the patch and load it in the hull like loading a patched round ball in a muzzle loader. It doesn't take up any room in the hull, it's cheap(nearly free, or free if you take napkins or paper towels from somewhere), it's gone before it leave the barrel, and it doesn't interfere with the skirt functioning on the shot wad/cup. See Bubba Rountree Outdoors videos for the "paper towel patch" and other great shotgun reloading stuff. If you're doing muzzle loader or BP cartridges, the correct size punch and thin cardboard, felt, or cork are usually best. I use felt over powder wads in muzzle loader, but whatever you like should be just fine. If you really really want to use the TP-pulp fiber-wad idea, there are multiple ways to do it. You could make sheets out of the pulp, however thick you want, then punch out the wads when it's dry. Or, you could use something with the proper diameter as a mold, and make them however thick you want. See taufledermouse videos to see the TP-pulp in use. Hope that helps, good luck.
These videos make me so happy. I love the scholarly research of the progression of ideas.
Funny - we used to collect bullets and the Williams bullet was called a "cleaner" and was thought to be used to help scrape out the barrel - you learn something every day - thank you
YEARS ago, I had a H&R Huntsman .58 caliber muzzel loader, and did some experimentation with different bullets. At that time, a person could buy 58 mini bullets with different thickness skirts. The thinnest skirted bullets would expand into the rifling and stabilize just fine, but as I increased the powder charges the thin skirt started to flare out as it exited the muzzle, almost looking like an umbrella when 150 grains of FFF goex was behind it. 40 grains was fine, but 140 grains demanded the thicker bullet skirt. I never used a plug, though, relying on gas pressure to expand the skirt.BTW the rifle didn't survive without stretching so much I sold it for junk price to a guy who said He could fix it!
I found your information about old guns and ammo super interesting and I Thank You Most Kindly! I have a Hawken replica 50 cal. But my favorite is my N. Starr 1829 69cal. Army issue I restored years ago. I have the original ram rod and bayonet and everything is stamped US. Along the line most likely in the 1840s from what I’ve researched, the military converted it to cap and ball. It shoots amazingly well and I use .620 ball at present. I had a gunsmith check and clean the bore, which wasn’t too bad for sitting a hundred years or more. It was found in a closet by a friends mother when she was 10, about a century ago, in a house being torn down in Delaware. The barrel was bent slightly and I straightened it out using the wooden vice on my old work bench. I’m a cabinetmaker by trade and with the vice and some wooden wedges it came out just fine. Walnut stock and a brass insert where it was converted. I do wish it was still flintlock but historically it’s just fine. According to research most all guns and rifles available were put into service during the Civil War. So this gun was only 32 years old when Sumpter was fired upon. Sure has a strong spring! Can’t break in combat I suppose but it takes a manly pull to cock it. I live about 65 miles east of Gettysburg, which has always been a favorite place to visit. My GGGrandfather volunteered for three term in the Calvary and one of the battles he fought was Antietam. My Grandfather was supposed to inherit his sword, medal and papers but upon his death in 1912 someone grabbed everything. My Grandfather was 20 years old then. I do have his picture my Grandfather took in 1909 or 10 sitting in his rocker on his porch. I have his rocker which I restored. Well I do believe I’ve buttoned quite enough and Thank You Again! I’ve subscribed! Many Blessings! DaveyJO in Pennsylvania
Glad you enjoy the channel and feel free to stop my the shop the next time you’re in town! 262 Baltimore St.
Liked and subbed. The world needs more in depth work like this.
Huzzah Brett. Great presentation of a complex mix of history and mechanics. The British also found the wooden or clay plug to keep the bullets in shape for their need to ship them around the world in all sea states and rumbling hundreds of miles in wooden bullock carts etc. before them tumbling about in the soldier’s pouches for days and weeks. More an incidental benefit than a planned one. It displays the difference between a military need and a target shooter’s. The Burton style can be made to be more accurate than the Pritchett style but only when hand fitted to size. An overview of the Austrian rifle musket compression bullet and why it was replaced in service would be good to hear but is a digression from your ACW theme. Also the French/Belgian/Russian etc. rifle musket bullets, but that is an ask too far I dare say. Well done.
Very interesting video. I never knew that there was so much backstory to the development of the Minie ball.
The cut away from the pillar rifle was an excellent cut scene.
Excellent videos!
Very accurate. Keep up with your videos!
That is very interesting, especially in general terms about technology that adapts to the precision available.
Wow...fascinating stuff...I had no idea this subject even existed. Keep up the good work. Hi from Australia.
That was utterly fascinating. Thanks!
That was a very interesting fantastic presentation. I also find the geometry of rifle bullets of this era a fascinating topic as well.
man, you just love to talk, don't you.
No boredom here, really interesting and well presented reasoning for the plug/cup bullet. I'd seen them in museums, had guessed why, but wasn't sure you have both the history and the practical experience.
Excellent talk on the impact of something as simple as a bit of wood or ceramic on history.
Love your Austrian Lorenz in the back ground. I'm liking the vid for that alone.
Soon… soooon…
@@papercartridges6705 You should talk about the 58 cal and 54 cal. I have a 58 lorenz myself and I love using it at civil reenactments.
@@papercartridges6705 Huzzah!
Educational and interesting. Thank you.
Could you boost your mic gain slightly? I normally keep my volume set to 35 for TH-cam, but on your video's I have to increase it to 60 to hear you clearly.
And I really appreciate all the information your are presenting. I do have a small question, I saw an old brass .73 cal Minie ball mould at an estate sale, the patent date on it was 1871. Have you ever seen one of those before?
Yeah I noticed it after the upload finished, that the audio is way too low. I am still figuring this stuff out. Until recently I was still using my iPhone microphone! Next time I think it will be much better.
@@papercartridges6705 Thank you.
Reminds me of the little plastic ball in the back of Federal’s TruBall 12 gauge slugs
Sorry for the online translator)
Russia made the same mistake. For the rifle of the 1854 model, the Peters-Timmerhans bullet without an expander was adopted. During the tests, it proved to be better than the Minié bullet. But on the battlefield, everything turned out much sadder. As a result, the Minié bullet was adopted for the rifle of 1856)
P.S. Thank you for your videos, they are very informative and entertaining)
Excellent job once again Brett!!
I have several black powder revolvers and love them. I've been shooting them for over three decades but I would kill to get my hands on a Civil War era reproduction rifle. The problem is the price point. I appreciate videos like this because you have done research so one day I may be able to use this to my advantage. Well done!
Just keep looking, especially on strange places or for names that are slightly off of what it should be. I just got my Enfield reproduction for $700, brand new with bayonet. A guy had it hanging on the wall in his cabin for the last 30 years, never shot it. It was advertised locally for $500 but I felt bad stealing it at that price! 😅
Absolutely fascinating video. I ordered some Pritchet style bullets from you roughly six months ago. I have not had a chance to get down to the range and try them. I'm really looking forward to it though. I live and Enola Pennsylvania near Harrisburg. I had asked you about using wooden plugs and you had mentioned to see if they work in my Springfield. I will be sure to let you know. Thank you again for such a great video. On another side note, my rifle is a reproduction. The bore has some piting and rust (my improper storage 15 years ago). I would like to know your view on either fire lapping the barrel or having it rebored.
Shoot it first and see what it does before you try any aggressive cleaning efforts or consider getting it relined. I have some rifles with moderate pitting and they still shoot with surprising accuracy. The worst places for pitting is at the breech or at the muzzle. A few dark spots midway down the bore may not cause too much trouble. Then again, they might. Sometimes pitting will want to rip the paper off patched bullets. Only way to know is to try it.
@@papercartridges6705 I will definitely try them before taking any drastic measures. Thank you for the advice. The pitting I have noticed is halfway down the barrel.
Excellent video. I have 2 Snider Rifles with different bore sizes. The long rifle is smaller diameter and the carbine is larger. I found that using wooden plugs in a minie bullet that has been compressed/swaged to a larger diameter is extremely accurate in the Carbine @50 yards in 24 ga. brass hulls. After watching this video, I hope to try the same in the long rifle which is very accurate using a .585 round ball in 24 ga. cheddite hulls. Buying a .585 minie bullet mould and handles is so expensive as to be prohibitive for me, so I will use my .578 mould with wooden plugs, but not swaged to a larger size, and also swaged + a wooden plug as a test for comparison.
Great video. Hollow based bullets recently made my life a lot easier. I have a 1877 colt DA in 41colt. Since i load 38 colt with hollow base bullets in my colt navy conversion. Long story short I bought a cylinder for the 1877 that was in for 38 Colt. But the barrel is in 41colt .386. The bullets expanded perfectly from .357 to .386. So just by changing a cylinder I can shoot two different calibers through this revolver.
Only shot the .5775s. Can’t wait to try the .574s to see how really different it is!
Great content as always.
Great video, very educational.l have a 58 cal enfield 2 bands rifle and I’m using a .560 Pritchett mould , I want to try wooden plugs which are very hard to find
I have been told that.560 bullet doesn’t need a plug
Looking forward to hearing from you
Alain
It depends on the thickness of paper you’re using for the patch. I think .560 may be too small to expand without a plug. The historic Pritchett bullet was a .568 diameter, and when rolled up into the cartridge, it came out to .576 or about one thousandth of an inch smaller than the bore. These didn’t need a plug since the bullet only needed to expand a small amount.
Most interesting and informative, thank you 😊
Fascinating video. Thanks.
I enjoyed this video Brett, also I have taken notes to hopefully improve my results in the sport of military muzzle loaders. Many years or decades of trial and error.
Very insightful.
Great show. You give out some interesting data on your shows. I've been watching you channel for about six months. The question I have for you is: Where did you get that Ordnance insignia you have sewn to your kepi? I am a retired Ordnance Chief Warrant Officer 3 and I want one for my cap when I go out to a SASS Match. Keep up the Good work.
And speaking of plugs, you should plug that amazing book of yours more in your videos. It is an exceptional wealth of information and one I have read several times to absorb the data. Plug that rascal and the others you wrote as well! Place a link in the video description to your website, where viewers can purchase the books.
So educational, many thanks.
Very useful .Thanks
Well. Once again amazing info. And I’m only halfway through.
I didn’t think this would ever end .
I absolutely love black powder era guns but I would apreaciate a video testing in ballistic gel as not many people know damage the slugs can cause I fired few guns myself some real shoulder thumper too no pain no gain lol greetings from uk 🇬🇧👍🦊🐾
There are lot's of videos testing the damage and there is medical records from the civil war describing the damage.
A bit long and windy but I learned something I didn't know!
It is my understanding that the avg. engagement distance between American Civil War infantrymen was 70 to 100 yards. In addition most infantrymen whether Union or Confederate were not well trained in marksmanship. Therefore the potential increase in accuracy and/or range of the rifled musket over the smooth bore was largely irrelevant because of inadequate training and resulting close engagement distances.
You are absolutely correct. They slugged it out up close because of the lack of training. Even so, there was an inexplicable optimism in the Ordnance Department, which kept assuming that training programs would somehow (magically?) be implemented and soldiers would become better long distance shots, so they kept producing rifles and ammo for long range.
Thank You. Knowledge for the sake of Knowledge.
I got an IDEA from one of the other community channels "I will Try" I will fill My Minie's skirts in their paper cartridges with "my DIY bore butter" as grease will flow under gas expansion but Not Compress in size similar to a historic wooden plug? "I Think?". This will lead to fast loads as if the ball is against the charge once tapped home easily, it's done, and it will drop down easily, "I Hope?"
I noted the historic "Plugs" did Not all touch the Inside of their cone. As a hydraulics and other tech, this will cause desired effects on the obturation of the lead skirts! The plug with or Without an air gap would become an inside out driving band sealing the gasses while grabbing the rifling, causing better ranges, accuracy, and consistency with less powder and lower production costs using the easily available tech of this period. "I think" a grease plug will help with fouling? or make it Worse? Can't wait to try!
Thanks for the Info! and Ideas!
@@lurch789 this why it's a trial, never know till "I Know?" I have OJT with all the elements and Hydrostatic testing.
The theory at the time was that the plugged bullets scraped the bore clean. Every few shots the soldier was supposed to load a plugged bullet.
That is an effect but it was designed not to leave hard residew in the first place.
I grew up down south, and my families have or had a 'family cannon' and old flintlocks, mostly hand me downs. What I was told, was, hand cast lead rifle bullets can be crumbly, or brittle, and could fall apart on firing resulting in just a cloud of lead to come out. They found that a wooden plug, a very compressible material, could buffer the explosion of the powder and help the bullet to hold together.
Well, some just like a plug.
Quite interesting!
Hey Brett, I've written you an email about this but I guess I ask here too.
While reading your fantastic book "The English Cartridge" I came across you mentioning Fidelity-brand onion skin paper made in Germany on page 242 (Appendix).
As I am too reconstructing historical cartidges for my own shooting, I'm in constant search for a better paper.
However, whilst immediately looking up the paper you mentioned I was unable to find it under "Fidelity onion skin paper" or under its possible german name (I live in Germany so it would be ideal for me).
Could you give me the exact product name or something along that line?
This is where I get it. Hopefully it lets me post the link.
www.thepapermillstore.com/paper-mills/the-paper-mill-store/fidelity-onion-skin
If I remember rightly, one iteration of the .455 Webley ammunition had wooden cores, for a different reason. It obviously worked because the Geneva Convention killed it !
@@papercartridges6705I suspected you used that. Thank you! Now just need to find a local supplier.
Its tricky as the "normal" cotton paper that people use for paper cartridges is to thick for the 13,9mm family of rifles. (I know the one you linked is wood pulp but we know that finding~10lbs cotton paper is nearly impossible)
Sometimes you can find a small lot of old rag typewriter paper on eBay or Etsy in the states. I’ve also known people to buy old deteriorated original books, to cannibalize for paper patches.
@@CrimeVid You're probably thinking of some conflation of .303 Mk.VII and its light aluminium/wood/whatever's handy and cheap tip filler (tail heavy for accuracy, violently unstable when it hits something), .303 Mk.III the very unpleasant hollow point that made continental types cry, and .455 Mk.III the flying ashtray that suffered a similar fate.
What music is that in the intro of your videos? That’s the same tune used in the new york central film, the railroad signal.
Curzon, March of the Bowman
Brett, a question: I've heard and i can't remember where .... that the un-plugged Civil War bullets generated less muzzle velocity than equivalent plugged bullets, because the expanding gasses of shooting took longer to expand the un-plugged projectile. I also see service charge velocities all over the place, with Union Springfield loads quoted as avout a thousand FPS, and Imperial British Enfield liads as about 1400 FPS. Please advise your opinion of all this. Great video, i really enjoy your clear explanations that cut through the jingoistic nonsense. Cheers, Gus
Plug bullets do expand faster and tend to have higher velocities, partly due to capturing more of the propellant gas, but primarily because (with a few exceptions) they were shot using a paper patch. This meant they could be kicked up to higher velocities without leaving a smear of lead streaked down the barrel. Essentially they were doing the same thing the copper jacket on a modern bullet does. The P/53 Enfield had a velocity of 1265, against 950 to 1000 with the Springfield.
@papercartridges6705 ah right, I understand now. Thank you for explaining that. Did the patched bullets have those drag- inducing grooves also? Or were they smooth-sided?
@robertstallard7836 thanks for that info. I assumed the paper patch unravelled on exit due to it being counter-rolled onto the bullet v the rifling spin. Glad to learn more, cheers
And today some bullet manufacturers stuff plastic in the hollow FRONT of the bullet. 🙃
Very interesting thank you.
You have expansion mixed up with windage ,but after a few minutes I figured it out. In all good Vedic👍
It all makes sense in my head! But what comes out as words… all bets are off.
Good stuff for us gun nerds.
I've followed up your original videos . Really enjoyed you books so keep up the good work.
It's easier in the uk to use Pyrodex as to use black powder one needs an exposive permit which entails various special rules for storage etc.
Yet probably easier to get black powder than Pyrodex, and the license is free
Why do have many Bulltes paper wrappings directly to the Bullet and why do many people refuse to adapt them in recreating the cartridges as you do with the vertterli rifle?
4:54 at least he got that roll in pulp fiction
How did any slight off-centeredness of the plug after firing affect accuracy? It would seem that even the slightest off-centeredness of the plug would ruin stability.
Great video! However the information on the Williams bullet was a bit incorrect. The plunger in the base of the bullet held three, concaved, zinc washers. Upon discharge the plunger would flatten the washers, forcing them to take the rifling. The bullet was not meant to expand. The side effect of the washers was to scrape powder fouling from the rife barrel. Maybe a new video on the Williams "cleaner" bullet may be called for?
I did a video on Ministry for History channel. You're *very* close about the Williams. There were three types. The first type had two (not three) concave discs (though to be fair, his actual patent did say there could be one, two, three, or five, but the version sold to the US government had two). Those flattened like you said, but their purpose was to trap all the propellant gas. The bullet did expand. Type 2 and 3 added the T shaped pin plunger, that forced the bullet to expand mechanically, similar to the wooden plugs used in English bullets. The purpose of the washers and pin etc were never primarily to scrape any fouling; Williams never touts them as such in his patents, or his correspondence with the War Department. But because the bullet expanded much faster than the old regulation bullet, they kept more of the barrel clean, leading to the "cleaner bullet" misnomer that endures today.
So... would it be accurate to compare the plugs of 19th century bullets to the polymer tips of modern Hornady bullets? The polymer isn't (strictly) necessary for expansion, but it does aid expansion while also ensuring the expansion is regular?
Ok, might plug be useful with the constant depth rifling in the Italian 1861’s??
With the Italian shallow rifling, it’s more trial and error to see what each particular gun will (or will not) shoot well. There doesn’t seem to be any consistent solution. A Pritchett with a plug worked good in my Italian rifle but not my friends.
Hello Sir,
I have a Pedersoli Enfield P58 in .577 and NOE bullet mould for .550 Enfield bullets. Haven't shot it until today because in Germany you have limited ranges where shooting with black powder is allowed. At the moment I am prepparing some P1861 Enfield cartridges for storage. Should I make them with the clay plug or does the .550 Bullet also work in rilfed muskets made on modern maschiens?
I am asking because making of that clay plugs is not that easy. The dried plug has to be fired and burned to be hard enough to spread the bullet.
What's your opionion?
Greeting from Bavaria/Germany .... Johnny
❤ from California
Default sound levels are pretty badly mixed, partly due to TH-cam encoding. Found a way to make it audible eventually.
Otherwise I love the content.
😅When a mosquito lands on your balls you undesrtand that violence is not always the answer
-sun tzu: the art of war thunder
To make them expand to grip the rifling.
Interesting very interesting.
I'm sure you've been asked or covered this but, what about the Gardner?
I’m working on having a mold made, and a press to make the Gardner cartridges. When I’m back from deployment I will try to do a video.
Do you make the plugs, if so how?
A friend turns them from hardwood dowels for me.
❤
Very informative video. I do have one question though is there any advantage of a clay plug over a wood plug? The last time I received Pritchet cartridges from you (some time ago) they had clay plugs. One of these days I'll have to stop by the shop as I'm only 45 minutes away.
Cheapness if making them in industrial quantities.Also free of changes in size and shape with changes in temperature and humidity. The British clay plugs were not fired but made from sintered fired clay powder, baked but not at firing temperatures.
@@lurch789 They changed from wood to clay and the clay was sintered and baked hard before use.
uhm, micrometer was invented and used in the late 1700s, iirc British museum has one credited to Newton
Yes and even earlier than that. But that was when they were first invented. It was 1844 when Whitworth revolutionized engineering and manufacturing with his micrometer, which was relatively cheap to produce and was available to the factory workman on a large scale.
@@papercartridges6705 ah, yes, that i can agree with.
Bulleit! 😂😊🤤
It’s not at all useful to me to watch these videos but I can’t seem to stop myself.
I say the same thing, but about making them.
"Clever Americans and backward Europeans"... But not clever enaugh to create the Minié ball.
Why work hard when we can make others work hard for us?
Surely that's not the attitude that made America great?AHA! You sir are a charlatan, enough of your tomfoolery, 😊@@philthethotdestroyer4194
you need to be louder
a 30 minute video on a 3 minute subject.
That should be the motto for my channel.
Get to the point. You blather on too much.
What a complete waste of time.
Thank you, most informative.