poly/poly//POLYTEMPO\\tempo\tempo
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
- 0:11 - Intro
2:22 - Henry Cowell's "New Musical Resources"
3:47 - Musical examples of polytempo from the 20th century
6:34 - Inside the score of "Dipsea Steps"
9:55 - Calculating interrelated tempos
12:17 - "poly/poly//POLTEMPO\\tempo\tempo (an experiment)" [Krock]
The underscoring throughout this video is my song, "Dipsea Steps," from my 2018 album "Big Heart Machine": bigheartmachine.bandcamp.com
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Sources:
Cowell, Henry. "New Musical Resources."
Thomsen, Peter. "Overlapping Systems." www.finaleforum.com/viewtopic...
Willey, Robert. "Electronic Realizations of Conlon Nancarrow's Study No. 37 for Player Piano." www.willshare.com/willeyrk/cre...
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the left and right split sort of reminds me of Coleman's Free Jazz where the left channel has one general tempo and so does the right. im not an expert so this might not be what is going on
This is a very incisive observation! I honestly wish I thought of it, so I could include it in the video. 🙏
@@BrianKrock similar thing on this track th-cam.com/video/oS9bdKGvB0A/w-d-xo.html , though these are two separate duos mixed together. Also hi, cool video!
The Canon effect by Conlon Nancorrow is the best way to approach polytempo ever
I love the contrast of the power chord guitar and bass clarinets with the flute and picked guitar line - it reminds me how cool instrumentation is!
It reminds me of totorro. That texture mix is beautiful!
For my final undergrad composition project I wrote a section of music in two tempi, where 3 percussionists had to play in a different time from the rest of the 9 musicians. I remember being grilled in studio class when presenting the work (by one of said percussionists, lol) because he questioned whether or not the same effect would be achievable without the two tempi. This was a contemporary classical piece and tempo and "groove" were not really elements in the work, unlike most jazz. I think one of my regrets on the piece would be to make the difference in tempi more audible... So I think there are a couple of considerations to make before you ask this of your performers, like if the ratio not achievable in one tempo. (for instance, 120bmp and 80bmp would be pointless, and the music has to be more grounded in tempo) or the presence of a conductor who can keep everyone together. (For my piece the percussionists were on their own. luckily out of all instrumentalists they have the best time feel. Still, the lack of a conductor can provide a certain looseness to the time, which I desired.) Building in flexibility in the piece so that musicians can realign (as in your vamps, which is the same tactic I used) and also considering the length of time you expect musicians to perform in separate tempi. Whether or not the musicians are held accountable for keeping track of where the other group is at in the music is also an interesting point I hadn't considered.
As for notation, I composed the percussion part in a separate .sib file and took a screenshot and matched to the score, roughly putting the same amount of time per page.
Great video and a super interesting concept I will certainly be exploring further! Thanks!
“Getting grilled in studio class” is a feeling I can relate to deeply, Brodey! Basically, my goal is to become the type of musician that is never skeptical of a composer’s crazy ideas.. but is excited by them. Sounds like you put a lot of thought into that piece. Glad you enjoyed the video!
I don't even know what to comment on this video, my mind has been blown. I had barely started thinking about this when you uploaded it so it came out as a big surprise, and I finally got around to watching it.
The mind is blown and I have to say your piece at the end of the video was very inspirational. Eager to listen to more of your music.
Cheers
Thanks apakep, I appreciate you taking the time to let me know!
Your channel intrigues me with its widely taboo topics. Cheers
Love the contrast between bass clarinet and flute
dude you just became the main reference for one of my end of semester second year compositions for uni. thank u so much. legend. notating polytempo my hell right now. its due next tuesday i wanna cry
thank u for ur time
Don't cry! Haha you'll get it done. Glad I could help.
This is incredible! I love the result of your simplified polytempo piece at the end, it's incredible - and so is Dipsea Steps, of course! I love your channel, you've gained a new subscriber! :)
You might have the best TH-cam handle that I have ever seen! Thanks for the kind words :)
This shouldn't sound so good, and yet somehow it does!
Very interesting and well explained video, thanks Brian! The only thing is that the backing music during the explanation was a bit loud and I found it made it difficult to focus on what you were saying.
Other than that, great video, I love the direct score studies!
Thank you for pointing that out, I appreciate the feedback. I still need to figure out how best to capture and mix my speaking voice... it’s surprisingly difficult! Glad you dug the video though!
I've been loving your videos, man! really well done
Tim! Thanks brother!
I just discovered Charles Ives polytempo stuff and wanted to try to do it myself so one day on school I randomly came up with the way you notated it at 10:10 lol I'm feeling so proud xd
I need to risk sounding bad, and do that often because I'm a beginner, but if I can stumblebum my way into a novel discovery on the path to learning, I'll take that too!
I get that I'm a crazy person, but this was always the concept in the back of my head when I think of polyrhythm. Granted, I've been listening to Captain Beefheart since I was in high school...
Sounds cool to me. Maybe as not an entire piece but used as a cool moment in the track.
Check out "Hack or Shack" by Fernandez 4, it's a great example of this. Also it's a beautiful tune.
I gotta tell you- I *LOVE* this song after my first listen! Full of amazing surprises. I’ve never heard of this band, but I can’t wait to get into them. Thanks for hipping me to it!
@@BrianKrock I'm glad you enjoyed it! They make great music, not always that experimental but still great and interesting.
⠀
Also I'll take this opportunity to tell you I really like your videos and I absolutely love Big Heart Machine. Great work Brian, keep it up!
🤯Thanks! 🤯
What if we bypass the equation issue (10:40 - 11:40)?
The relation between the two streams is 3 : 5.
If we start from the "faster" tempo (120bpm), we could obtain the "slower"
by doing
120:5x3=72.
I LOVE IT!!!!!
Very interesting!
Awesome. I thought the tune at the end totally worked!
The amount of work put into this video, when contrasted by the number of views, is tragic to me.
0:23 it's really my obsession.
This is such a cool and amazing effect! In a smaller band setting, such as a chamber group, click tracks are what i'm thinking of to turn a piece into live music, I remember Frank Zappa had tried this out.
Hmm, that’s cool. Like, different band members are listening to different click tracks? That’s definitely a cool idea. Personally, I have PTSD from listening to a click track every night when I toured with a musical for a few years in my early twenties. I would hear a click laying in bed at night for the longest time. Kinda funny, in retrospect, but I hated it, and so I try to avoid clicks at all cost! But, it’d be worth it to try your idea!
@@BrianKrock I'm not a big fan of click tracks unless I'm practicing, it's always click while practice so you're solid, but when performing you get to manipulate it in the moment/based on feel, like jello haha
@@BrianKrock wild idea, but with a lot of extra work, you could synthesize a drum beat at whatever tempo to use in place of clicks, for a little variety.
Hi Brian, this is fantastic, thanks! I just headed over from Shawn's video. I just finished my PhD in polytemporal composition, and I wish I'd known what you were up to sometime during that (how did I miss you??), it would've been amazing to talk about this stuff. It's great to see how you've approached it - I ended up with spreadsheets and click tracks...! I love your piece at the end, we've definitely wrestled with the same things trying to find wherever it is we were trying to go - absolutely do more!
Joe Inkpen are the audio samples of your music using spreadsheets and clicks? Would *love* to hear that. Congrats on finishing your PhD- that’s huge!
@@BrianKrock Thank you! It was long but definitely worth it. My last piece (where I feel like I had a proper grasp on writing something vaguely not horrible) is this one th-cam.com/video/TOx-JtSSgZU/w-d-xo.html , but I have a playlist of the others that led up to that if you were interested in how it got there - absolutely feel what you're saying on the scores too, I did do notation for them but it was VERY long using Sibelius and Illustrator, so they aren't for playback but pretty useful for analysis. If you did at any point want to chat about processes and stuff though just let me know- it's really cool to actually talk to someone also composing this stuff...!
Good god! gorgeous .
Fuck yeah, man
I'm 2:41 in and it already made my week :)
Hey, this comment made my day, so thanks!
i need some joanna newsom analysis please!
Would it also be possible to represent the individual tempi in your demonstration piece as having a 5:3 polyrhythmic ratio? It would solve one notation issue, but writing those syncopations within the polyrhythm might prove challenging
That’s a good idea. I think I gotta try it to see what it would look like... im honestly not 100% how that would work out!
This is soo fucking goooooood hwowlee shiitt !!! ❤❤❤❤❤
Glad to see Tori's bed put to good use haha
😂
You could possible have it written out with the faster tempo being quarter notes and the slower tempo being half note triplets grouped in 4's. So you would be able to play it all live. Which is actually a lot like Ari Hoenig's tune Lines of Oppression.
Not quite- you’d have 15 pulses notes within the span of five measures, whereas my example is 12 pulses in the span of 5 measures. So, pretty close to half note triplets, but not quite. [FWI- my notation is TOTALLY performable live. The musical examples in the video are many magnitudes more complex (eg Carter), yet people perform them all the time]. But thank you for taking the time to make your suggestion- Ari Hoenig is the shit!
@@BrianKrock @Brian Krock ah you're right, I did it for 3 evenly spaced measures over 4, whoops. That's true. Thank you for the great videos! And yea Ari is awesome!
If you take the two tempos you showed at the end and play them at the same time (like in a metronome) it will sound (and be) like 5:3 polyrhythm with accent on every fourth beat in both sides (the 5 and the 3) (polymeter). so what are the differences between polytempo and polyrhythm with polymeter? Aren't they the same?
Hey, Ran. So, I think you kind of explained the difference in your question. Polyrhythm is just the metronomic click that you refer to. Polymeter is two different but related meters played simultaneously. Polytempo can be two or more tempos (and all the subdivisions and rhythmic information associated with that) played simultaneously. These tempos don't even have to be related in any way, like in the example of my song "Dipsea Steps."
Final piece didnt sound bad at all!
Brian, this is Evgeni Kostitsyn. Your approach towards polytempo is completely wrong. Please do not mislead public about my polytempo notation. You are welcome to contact me on this matter.