Randomly passing by due to TH-cam algo. As a VPR player, I 100% agree with you that downtime will impact a lot the job, and will need to hold a potential minute Reawaken to align with the 2min of the rest of the party, that means less impact overall, and might hinder the dps check depending of the choices on balance
Good to see that you're not taking my assessment as an attack. I am a bit biased on VPR, because as AST main they are the bane of my existence (since ANY other melee is better for my card). But thats exactly the thing in ults, you want to vomit out your burst before the boss goes untargetable. VPR is really bad at that. There is hope though! Some phases really do benefit jobs like VPR, any phase that is awkward for 2mins (e.g. TOP P2 because ppl hold 2nd 2mins) - or phases like TOP P4, because no 2mins are available. And given that CBU3 actually tests shit, we might see some love for VPR.
"will need to hold a potential minute Reawaken to align with the 2min of the rest of the party" I did DSR on Reaper and yes you do have to hold back on using your enshrouds (Reawaken equivalent) in certain points of the fight, for example on p2 you have to save your 1 minute enshroud for the final portion of the phase since there is *so* much downtime. There's like 2 separate instances of downtime in this single phase alone which doesn't give you a ton of room to build gauge. A lot of what makes ultimates unique are how much downtime there is & how much you can optimize your rotations in certain points of the fights. So just optimize your vicewinders & your gauge generation and you should be fine damage wise! Given that FRU is current content as of right now you will likely have to do non-standard things to meet certain DPS checks.
I might make a new video then. It will take me at least 2-3 weeks to clear the ultimate (4-5 is more realistic). I can try to make a video alongside the ultimate prog, but it will prob be inaccurate and based on early edging-on hardcore prog. Or I can wait until I cleared it and re-cleared it with random people in PF for a much more accurate tier list.
@@menardyxiv I think one after the 7.1 update (to theorize the strength of the jobs) and then one like 2 months after the New Year (after we know the duration of the phases, type of mitigs needed etc.) would be interesting
As this is my first time crafting a youtube video and scripted content in general, feel free to give me criticism. I'll be open to it and do my best to improve.
Speaking of Analytical videos you may make in the future, Have you considered doing a video on group compositions and class pairings? the comment on SGE/SCH being good in TOP and why was enlightening to me, and I'd like to see a bit more on that sort of thought train.
Yes, it will actually be a major focus of the channel. I studied game design and its one of my greatest passions, so I'll always end up making analytical videos to some extent. One very analytical video is about to be released. I'm just giving it the last touches right now.
Here's something I feel as a main healer myself. I am the kind of player who likes to play the best and the easiest job. However, If the easiest is bad I tend to play something hard as long as is strong. But in this game, the meta is not so strong compared to the least performing job. If you play/played WoW you'll know what I am talking about. So I always tend to play something easier because if I perform well with the easier job I'll not hinder my raid group. Elaborating further, I've done all ultimates and all criterion savage with all healing jobs, my conclusion given the current game design, there's no reason to play something more complicated for a few percent increase. There are exceptions but it's doesn't really apply since the game is not really balanced or designed for those type of situations. Recently my group tackled the Eden Savage min ilvl and we were having problems with mits because our group comp lacked mit tools, but we managed to power through by playing more seriously. It was a situation that not even DSR/TOP week 1 had and made me realize that "why should I play a job that put my entire focus on my rotation instead of the raid encounter?" In my opinion, it's actually better to play something you can braindead because you can focus in other things like the execution of game mechanics and mit planning, raiding is getting harder and they are streamlining the jobs as a result. I mained SCH for this first arcadion savage tier and after doing it on SGE, I came to realize I was putting too much effort on playing a job that was not really rewarding. Of course, this is ALL SUBJECTIVE, you might enjoy playing a more complex job while executing complex mechs... but I just can't submit myself to this. My point is that you'll be fine with whichever job you choose as long as you play accordingly, I don't really like tier lists and predictions like this because it creates bad community perceptions (see Liquid Maximum), people tend to follow the herd instead of testing themselves... However, I can appreciate the effort in your video, it's well scripted and have good edit.
Hence why ease of play is a factor in the list. Because I do agree with you. For me its a bit weird, because no job feels as natural and "easy" to me as AST, despite its difficulty.
Video popped into my feed after world first concluded, based on what I've seen I would prob move DNC up to S since the DNC/PCT combo is insane and maybe DRK up to A, though I'm not really sure why so many teams chose the PLD/DRK tank combo over others. Other than that it seems to be very accurate to what I'm seeing. Also.... your WHM shade hurts.... only because it's true
Updated Tier List: th-cam.com/video/SA6SncWcYHs/w-d-xo.html Please note that the tier list cannot take into account the actual ultimate. I will have to make another one a few days into prog. The biggest thing for job performance in FFXIV is always skill, and especially for ultimates also how the tools fit the encounter. The actual numbers are usually the smallest indicator.
You'll best be on the job you enjoy and want to play. Ultimate is a marathon, not a sprint, try to make yourself comfortable. WHM might not be as strong as AST but I doubt it be a major issue in clearing the fight.
It sucks what they did in DT. The job was superior to most jobs in EW. Standard was viable, Non-Standard was fun and a lot of optimisation. Easy to learn, hard to master. Then for whatever godforsaken reason they decided: Hey, lets take that peak job design, and replace it with garbage. But hey, you at least get instant despair and 2 leyline charges in 7.1. Hahaaa.
@@kurufeemo8076 Thats fair, BLM is a lot of fun at the start because it feels very freeform around a simple mechanic. The thing is, in EW non-standard allowed you to have unparalleled flexibility in your rotation. But you could also play stock standard and perform really well. They completely killed all flexibility and shoehorned you into exactly 6x F4 with a rigid rotation. If you only played standard or haven't played a lot of BLM not much changes. But if you enjoyed non-standard the job got essentially removed from the game.
as a reaper main i dont think reaper is A tier there is alot of downtime in ultimate and reaper is the only job that gets omega cucked in downtime scenarios your burst is tied to you gauge the more downtime the less gauge you gain and yes you can pool gauge for and perform better in certain phases other jobs can perform well no matter the phase unless they give reaper a way to gain gauge during downtime i personally think its C tier
Yes, thats absolutely true. It was a huge pain in TOP in 6.4-6.5, and now with PCT its almost unplayable (requires entirely different strats). However, if TOP phases were just a few seconds longer it wouldn't be an issue. So it can be horrible or not matter at all. I also think I rated DRK too low because Eden Ultimate probably going to be all magic damage and Dark Mind is very good for that + it will blast in DPS.
I think u put reaper too high because it has the exact same problem as viper and I would put dragoon on S tier maybe especially if it can get many aoe hits like in dsr
Gauge manipulation was unbelievably powerful in TOP. DRG can not be higher, because it doesn't provide anything special. It lost its eye gauge, so no double life windows. It's burst is good but not the best. It's raid buff is arguably the best but by a very slim margin. DRG is extremely fragile, having no personal mitigation, limited mitigation and short animation locks (these aren't huge issues to overcome, its just that other jobs have better tools). Compare this with say MNK, which has an easier time LB3ing, has strong personal mitigation, provides mantra and RoE healing, has better damage overall, no animation locks (that I can remember, I dont play MNK), higher or similar burst (depends what minute window), snappier mobility. There is a reason its S.
Already cut 90% of it out, in newer videos I have better audio. I think that trick doesn't really work anyway, since I always have a glass of water with me when recording.
Predictions are based on what we have now, but as usual, the new ultimate should come with some job balance as well, so it's really hard to speculate. As for Viper, you couldn't be more wrong, why would you assume Viper has bad burst? It's only initial burst, which has 1 awakening in it, is bad, any other burst you can fit 2 or 3 ouroborous in and be a top class in burst. But since the class is new and you clearly don't play it but just follow some unclear insight, I let this slide lol. Viper is so flexible that no downtime effects it, you can use your 2 mins on CD and still have full burst for any buff window anytime. You say Top is indicator for Viper being bad? Let me tell you Viper dmg is in Ouroborous and top is lvl 90 while Ouroborous is 96, that;s the whole reason for it. Sorry but that's a dislike from me since you failed with Viper.
Predicitions are not based around what we have now but also around the likely changes jobs will receive. If a job is underperforming (e.g. BLM) it is likely to receive buffs which is taken into account. VPR has performed at the top of the DPS for most of the patch, so its unlikely to receive buffs. The fact its the other job (next to SAM) with no raid buffs (when raid buffs scale better in general but especially in ultimate) is a weak starting point. Yet SAM has much better burst at 0m and 2min+ and thats in its current weak state. It is performing below all other melees, so its very likely to receive buffs, increasing the gap. Can VPR still be top tier for the ultimate? Yes, if there is A LOT of downtime for melees, the boss doesn't go untargetable much, we have a phase like top p4, etc - its just much less likely that it is good vs. all other melees.
@syrchalis viper outperforms almost every melee without downtime and with downtime if they need to hold 2mins viper is simply supreme. I think you just don't get the way viper works in ultimates and comparing it based on dmg in old ultimates there viper has no dmg in general. New class will never be bottom tier. Viper beats every other class in dmg because of every burst with 2/3 awakenings, having lower burst in 1st stage means nothing since it's the easiest phase, ignore that and you have best melee. It's pointless debating tho, you'll see in 2 weeks
@@menardyxiv you really believe that all other melees will get buffed? that's crazy, like I said, they will never push new class to the bottom list, just wait and see how wrong you are.
Im sorry but idk how you can say sam looks super weak atm when right now its the current top dps for this savage tier and second its has an low entry gap compared to blm as I am an blm main myself and thrid of all sam is 3rd right now for both ultimates this patch so IDK how you can say sam is weak
Level 90 performance does not relate to level 100 performance. Are we looking at the same data? www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/62 SAM is the worst melee with RPR, at 99th percentile its even below RPR. I played a lot of SAM as well this tier. SAM's skill floor is much higher than RPR, VPR and DRG in my opinion. BUT! I think SAM has great potential for the ultimate. It has amazing burst and is likely to be buffed. Third Eye makes it very tanky, which helps in situations like TOP P6 a lot. The only reason I rated SAM low is because of the competition it has. BLM only really has to compete against PCT and is due for immense buffs (due to PCT overperforming so much).
Randomly passing by due to TH-cam algo. As a VPR player, I 100% agree with you that downtime will impact a lot the job, and will need to hold a potential minute Reawaken to align with the 2min of the rest of the party, that means less impact overall, and might hinder the dps check depending of the choices on balance
Good to see that you're not taking my assessment as an attack. I am a bit biased on VPR, because as AST main they are the bane of my existence (since ANY other melee is better for my card).
But thats exactly the thing in ults, you want to vomit out your burst before the boss goes untargetable. VPR is really bad at that.
There is hope though! Some phases really do benefit jobs like VPR, any phase that is awkward for 2mins (e.g. TOP P2 because ppl hold 2nd 2mins) - or phases like TOP P4, because no 2mins are available.
And given that CBU3 actually tests shit, we might see some love for VPR.
"will need to hold a potential minute Reawaken to align with the 2min of the rest of the party"
I did DSR on Reaper and yes you do have to hold back on using your enshrouds (Reawaken equivalent) in certain points of the fight, for example on p2 you have to save your 1 minute enshroud for the final portion of the phase since there is *so* much downtime. There's like 2 separate instances of downtime in this single phase alone which doesn't give you a ton of room to build gauge.
A lot of what makes ultimates unique are how much downtime there is & how much you can optimize your rotations in certain points of the fights. So just optimize your vicewinders & your gauge generation and you should be fine damage wise! Given that FRU is current content as of right now you will likely have to do non-standard things to meet certain DPS checks.
Would be cool to see an Update when the patch will be up
I might make a new video then. It will take me at least 2-3 weeks to clear the ultimate (4-5 is more realistic). I can try to make a video alongside the ultimate prog, but it will prob be inaccurate and based on early edging-on hardcore prog. Or I can wait until I cleared it and re-cleared it with random people in PF for a much more accurate tier list.
@@menardyxiv I think one after the 7.1 update (to theorize the strength of the jobs) and then one like 2 months after the New Year (after we know the duration of the phases, type of mitigs needed etc.) would be interesting
Menardy is going places! I actually love the vids keep em coming
"Vids" - there is 1 video xdd
As this is my first time crafting a youtube video and scripted content in general, feel free to give me criticism. I'll be open to it and do my best to improve.
my strummer. after streaming for so long is also making youtube videos. now i can enjoy even more content. thank you for the video
Speaking of Analytical videos you may make in the future, Have you considered doing a video on group compositions and class pairings? the comment on SGE/SCH being good in TOP and why was enlightening to me, and I'd like to see a bit more on that sort of thought train.
Yes, it will actually be a major focus of the channel. I studied game design and its one of my greatest passions, so I'll always end up making analytical videos to some extent.
One very analytical video is about to be released. I'm just giving it the last touches right now.
Here's something I feel as a main healer myself. I am the kind of player who likes to play the best and the easiest job. However, If the easiest is bad I tend to play something hard as long as is strong. But in this game, the meta is not so strong compared to the least performing job. If you play/played WoW you'll know what I am talking about. So I always tend to play something easier because if I perform well with the easier job I'll not hinder my raid group. Elaborating further, I've done all ultimates and all criterion savage with all healing jobs, my conclusion given the current game design, there's no reason to play something more complicated for a few percent increase. There are exceptions but it's doesn't really apply since the game is not really balanced or designed for those type of situations. Recently my group tackled the Eden Savage min ilvl and we were having problems with mits because our group comp lacked mit tools, but we managed to power through by playing more seriously. It was a situation that not even DSR/TOP week 1 had and made me realize that "why should I play a job that put my entire focus on my rotation instead of the raid encounter?"
In my opinion, it's actually better to play something you can braindead because you can focus in other things like the execution of game mechanics and mit planning, raiding is getting harder and they are streamlining the jobs as a result. I mained SCH for this first arcadion savage tier and after doing it on SGE, I came to realize I was putting too much effort on playing a job that was not really rewarding. Of course, this is ALL SUBJECTIVE, you might enjoy playing a more complex job while executing complex mechs... but I just can't submit myself to this. My point is that you'll be fine with whichever job you choose as long as you play accordingly, I don't really like tier lists and predictions like this because it creates bad community perceptions (see Liquid Maximum), people tend to follow the herd instead of testing themselves... However, I can appreciate the effort in your video, it's well scripted and have good edit.
Hence why ease of play is a factor in the list. Because I do agree with you. For me its a bit weird, because no job feels as natural and "easy" to me as AST, despite its difficulty.
Video popped into my feed after world first concluded, based on what I've seen I would prob move DNC up to S since the DNC/PCT combo is insane and maybe DRK up to A, though I'm not really sure why so many teams chose the PLD/DRK tank combo over others. Other than that it seems to be very accurate to what I'm seeing.
Also.... your WHM shade hurts.... only because it's true
my AST 4ever
Updated Tier List: th-cam.com/video/SA6SncWcYHs/w-d-xo.html
Please note that the tier list cannot take into account the actual ultimate. I will have to make another one a few days into prog. The biggest thing for job performance in FFXIV is always skill, and especially for ultimates also how the tools fit the encounter. The actual numbers are usually the smallest indicator.
GDI, I've mained sch since launch and the one time I take WHM as main it's the worst? FML.
Guess I need to relearn sch again...
You'll best be on the job you enjoy and want to play. Ultimate is a marathon, not a sprint, try to make yourself comfortable. WHM might not be as strong as AST but I doubt it be a major issue in clearing the fight.
Never subbed so fast iml awesome video bruv
They fixed it recently so the GNB/DRk buffs mit phys now too. I know because my MT GNB got super excited over it lol.
I know, check my 7.1 update video.
Yes because they are probably not gonna fix anything about it (BLM main here still mourning the death of my favorite job).
It sucks what they did in DT. The job was superior to most jobs in EW. Standard was viable, Non-Standard was fun and a lot of optimisation. Easy to learn, hard to master. Then for whatever godforsaken reason they decided: Hey, lets take that peak job design, and replace it with garbage.
But hey, you at least get instant despair and 2 leyline charges in 7.1. Hahaaa.
They just hate Casters I swear, signed a former SMN main.
@@Daltheer Surely 7.1 fixes everything :clueless:
May be later in the expansion they will fix it? I have just started playing black mage, got it to level 60+ and am having a lot of fun
@@kurufeemo8076 Thats fair, BLM is a lot of fun at the start because it feels very freeform around a simple mechanic. The thing is, in EW non-standard allowed you to have unparalleled flexibility in your rotation. But you could also play stock standard and perform really well.
They completely killed all flexibility and shoehorned you into exactly 6x F4 with a rigid rotation. If you only played standard or haven't played a lot of BLM not much changes. But if you enjoyed non-standard the job got essentially removed from the game.
It won’t matter because we aren’t taking 2 PCT and my group already has 1 so oh well.
as a reaper main i dont think reaper is A tier there is alot of downtime in ultimate and reaper is the only job that gets omega cucked in downtime scenarios your burst is tied to you gauge the more downtime the less gauge you gain and yes you can pool gauge for and perform better in certain phases other jobs can perform well no matter the phase unless they give reaper a way to gain gauge during downtime i personally think its C tier
The video is peak.
I don’t agree with pali as a tank player because in ultimate the class just sucks because of the invuln other than that loved the content
Yes, thats absolutely true. It was a huge pain in TOP in 6.4-6.5, and now with PCT its almost unplayable (requires entirely different strats). However, if TOP phases were just a few seconds longer it wouldn't be an issue. So it can be horrible or not matter at all.
I also think I rated DRK too low because Eden Ultimate probably going to be all magic damage and Dark Mind is very good for that + it will blast in DPS.
Ooh after summoner get their broken potencies fixed then they will be top dps!!
I think u put reaper too high because it has the exact same problem as viper and I would put dragoon on S tier maybe especially if it can get many aoe hits like in dsr
Gauge manipulation was unbelievably powerful in TOP. DRG can not be higher, because it doesn't provide anything special. It lost its eye gauge, so no double life windows. It's burst is good but not the best. It's raid buff is arguably the best but by a very slim margin. DRG is extremely fragile, having no personal mitigation, limited mitigation and short animation locks (these aren't huge issues to overcome, its just that other jobs have better tools).
Compare this with say MNK, which has an easier time LB3ing, has strong personal mitigation, provides mantra and RoE healing, has better damage overall, no animation locks (that I can remember, I dont play MNK), higher or similar burst (depends what minute window), snappier mobility. There is a reason its S.
ff8 theme to 'mages', i see what you did there xff
Make sure to drink plenty of water before recording a video. It helps mitigate that "smacking" sound.
Already cut 90% of it out, in newer videos I have better audio. I think that trick doesn't really work anyway, since I always have a glass of water with me when recording.
BUFF RED MAGE
8:13
Predictions are based on what we have now, but as usual, the new ultimate should come with some job balance as well, so it's really hard to speculate. As for Viper, you couldn't be more wrong, why would you assume Viper has bad burst? It's only initial burst, which has 1 awakening in it, is bad, any other burst you can fit 2 or 3 ouroborous in and be a top class in burst. But since the class is new and you clearly don't play it but just follow some unclear insight, I let this slide lol. Viper is so flexible that no downtime effects it, you can use your 2 mins on CD and still have full burst for any buff window anytime. You say Top is indicator for Viper being bad? Let me tell you Viper dmg is in Ouroborous and top is lvl 90 while Ouroborous is 96, that;s the whole reason for it. Sorry but that's a dislike from me since you failed with Viper.
Predicitions are not based around what we have now but also around the likely changes jobs will receive. If a job is underperforming (e.g. BLM) it is likely to receive buffs which is taken into account.
VPR has performed at the top of the DPS for most of the patch, so its unlikely to receive buffs. The fact its the other job (next to SAM) with no raid buffs (when raid buffs scale better in general but especially in ultimate) is a weak starting point. Yet SAM has much better burst at 0m and 2min+ and thats in its current weak state. It is performing below all other melees, so its very likely to receive buffs, increasing the gap.
Can VPR still be top tier for the ultimate? Yes, if there is A LOT of downtime for melees, the boss doesn't go untargetable much, we have a phase like top p4, etc - its just much less likely that it is good vs. all other melees.
@syrchalis viper outperforms almost every melee without downtime and with downtime if they need to hold 2mins viper is simply supreme. I think you just don't get the way viper works in ultimates and comparing it based on dmg in old ultimates there viper has no dmg in general. New class will never be bottom tier. Viper beats every other class in dmg because of every burst with 2/3 awakenings, having lower burst in 1st stage means nothing since it's the easiest phase, ignore that and you have best melee. It's pointless debating tho, you'll see in 2 weeks
@@Hoki_Den Exactly, it outperforms now, so it wont get buffed. All other melees will.
@@menardyxiv you really believe that all other melees will get buffed? that's crazy, like I said, they will never push new class to the bottom list, just wait and see how wrong you are.
Im sorry but idk how you can say sam looks super weak atm when right now its the current top dps for this savage tier and second its has an low entry gap compared to blm as I am an blm main myself and thrid of all sam is 3rd right now for both ultimates this patch so IDK how you can say sam is weak
Level 90 performance does not relate to level 100 performance.
Are we looking at the same data? www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/62
SAM is the worst melee with RPR, at 99th percentile its even below RPR. I played a lot of SAM as well this tier. SAM's skill floor is much higher than RPR, VPR and DRG in my opinion.
BUT! I think SAM has great potential for the ultimate. It has amazing burst and is likely to be buffed. Third Eye makes it very tanky, which helps in situations like TOP P6 a lot.
The only reason I rated SAM low is because of the competition it has. BLM only really has to compete against PCT and is due for immense buffs (due to PCT overperforming so much).