A Tale of Two Gatsby (Musicals)...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ค. 2024
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Ainsley Rosenstiel
Amy Elizabeth Reinhart
Ann
Ann Marie Wilson
Anon!
Aviva Kamens
Ayinde
Blythe Lavender
Brent Black
Cindy Lindsay
Danniella
Deena Abdullat
Devra Gatling
Ethan
Frances McGinn
Holly T
jack walk
Jenny
Katie McGuire
Kelseigh Ingram
Lawren Kinsey
Lucia Figueras
Marisa
Megan McCasland
MindlessNonsense
Orange
Phil Edwards
Rachel Goodman
Savannah Cash
stephen seale
Taekook
The Dirty Bubble
Tia Lee
Timothy Murray
Tom Norris
Toryana Frazier
Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:59 The Preshow
4:10 Thoughts I Had Coming In
6:47 The Tone
9:21 The Buchanan House
13:04 Myrtle
17:04 Gatsby
21:18 Trusting The Source (Or Not)
26:10 The Music
27:26 The Form
32:32 Let Gatsby Be Gatsby - บันเทิง
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Broadway Gatsby ensemble: “Oooh, another party!”
ART Gatsby: “Fuck, it’s another party.”
A lot of people forget that Luhrmann *reinvented* Gatsby, and it was controversial. Some of these critiques will be worked on, but it cannot be the Luhrmann movie. It needs to be reinvented again. I do think the Florence version is the Valley of the Ashes version, where you never forget the backs on whom the characters stand on, which I believe is why Myrtle is so central. But Hadestown was also very different at NYTW
My thoughts exactly! I hope they really take the time with it like they did with Hadestown.
I loved the Luhrmann movie. I wonder how Florence's musical compares to it.
I definitely agree. I saw the ART Gatsby and I think it captured the spirit of the book profoundly well, despite some surface level differences. The actual themes presented in The Great Gatsby have become far more politically mainstream since it was written, which means that it risks losing its edge entirely with modern audiences. I know I felt that way when I first read it, and it took actual research for me to recognize how controversial it was at the time. There's definitely work to do, but I do think ART Gatsby managed to put modern audiences in the chairs of how someone may have felt reading it in the 1920s.
In Ireland selina Cartmels production in the gate theatre was radical production. Cartmel took out the floor seating for the gate invited members of the public to dress up. The cast had to take movement lessons for the party scenes. The gate theatres production of the great gatsby was for the hottest ticket in town
In her final term as gate theatre boss selina put the great gatsby on agajn as way of saying goodbye to her adopted city of Dublin
You should write your own Great Gatsby musical at this point.
Don't tempt me.
I’ve heard rumors originally ART’s had a Beautiful Little Fool song, and they were hesitant to put it in due to Broadway Gatsby having one already.
Unsurprising considering how important the line "beautiful little fool" is to the overall theme of the original book.
So what you're telling me, is that the ART version needs to lean into a more ballet sensibility and have pure dance breaks with no dialogue set to Florence's music so that actors can perform the subtext and the mystery to the audience without giving away the whole game all at once.
Gatsby is simply NOT a story suited for musical theatre; the musical theatre tends to demand it’s characters express their inner thoughts, desires, motivations etc etc etc -- and Gatsby (as it works in the original) demands it’s characters are either tight-lipped and mysterious, their inner motives to be questioned -- OR turn out to be people who, when you actually find out what’s going on in their head, you realize how vacuous their insides really are -- how everything you fall in love with about them is the fantasy you put on them. -- OOOOp!! I Just got to the part of the video where you address this… GREAT MINDS, as they say--
I had that same thought watching the ART production, specifically with regards to Daisy's character. Because so much of her inner world is only presented in flashes and outbursts, it was jarring to have her wringing her heart out in song to the point where she stopped feeling like a representation of the novel's Daisy Buchanan at all.
@@makeminemonsters precisely!! That’s the thing -- the narrator NEVER knows Daisy. NO ONE reaallly knows Daisy, NOR Gatsby!!; that’s (strange as it feels) one of the most important elements to set the tone of the story; I think it’s a large part of what people love about it :: the ambiguity of their thoughts and motivations is one of the major draws toward intrigue, and to expand it means to lose that intrigue-- It is to choose something tonally (and perhaps thematically) opposite to the novel.
They should have done choir ensemble esk numbers where it keeps nick as the narrator, but still only the half focus. It can be done but it takes vision and creativity
@@stevielove4778 That was where a lot of my disconnect with the show vs story came - I really thought with Florence Welch as the main composer, we'd get a take on the story that emphasized the darkness, emptiness, and moral ambiguity of the characters. I came away feeling like there were some edgy aesthetic choices, but at the end of the day, Gatsby and Daisy's relationship was presented as being pretty generically romantic and Nick was a wide-eyed innocent, which is a standard take on the novel that (I feel) misses the point. I was also confused by the periodic emphasis on sexual and gender liberation, which is part of the larger cultural context of the Roaring Twenties, but NOT the world of Gatsby and the Buchanans personally.
In the novel, at the one party Daisy attends, she doesn't enjoy herself. She and Gatsby dance together once, a "conservative foxtrot" not a Charleston or Black Bottom. They're trying to recapture the autumn of 1917, not embrace the summer of 1922.
Yes, Nick pretty clearly has a sexual encounter with McKee in the novel, but it's presented as an elipse and takes place removed from Myrtle's apartment, which is not exactly presented as an LGBTQ safe space in the book. Yes, Daisy and Gatsby and Tom and Myrtle are having extramarital affairs, but at the end of the day the characters with the most privilege are able to hide away behind the facade of respectable marriage while their partners...y'know.
And as for Myrtle...I'm actually REALLY bothered by her motivation being the loss of a child. It feels overtly sentimental and kind of gender essentialist. As though the libretto is saying, "Myrtle COULD have been happy with George if only the essential core of any woman's happiness (a child) had lived." Why can't she just hate being stuck in the valley of ashes because it genuinely sucks?
Anyway, tl;dr, I wasn't sure why they made a lot of the choices they made.
@@betsycheddar BINGO! I think it's uncreative to assume Broadway can't do subtlety or hide motivations, The ensemble would've been a great tool to hint at Daisy's inner turmoil and use her songs (or have her lyrics) be what she WANTS to portray on the outside. Heavy lifting for the actress but it can be done!
The ART Gatsby is the one I think is going to have staying power because it’s the one that’s gonna help theatre kids write their essays.
Also: the myth isn’t gatsby. The myth is what gatsby attempted. It’s the American dream.
That show is going to be a huge flop. Rachel Chavkin is the new Julie Taylor, and just a one-hit wonder.
@@ChienaAvtzonI mean not only is that unnecessarily rude, it’s also not all that true depending on who you ask. The Great Comet’s staying power and the resurgence of love for the show is a testament to it and her work on the show. There’s absolutely no reason to put down Rachel or Julie for that matter. Spider-Man wasn’t bad solely because of Taymor, the storied tale of the many creative differences lends itself to why that show was doomed.
I know the show is in flux, but I saw the ART production a different night and 100% remember Daisy saying the "beautiful little fool" line during the second scene (I think word-for-word the same as the book quote).
0:01Phineas and Ferb reference woo🙌
When I was in college we called the struggle after the opening number the “second scene slump” lol
Also, I would love to see this. I saw Finding Neverland at ART and then on Broadway and I LOVED the ART version, honestly both myself and my mother liked it better than how it ended up when it got to bway
Music is ideal for conveying subtext. A 20s flapper score ought to be able to present a veneer of frivolity and excess while hinting at a depth of hollowness and sadness. Hopefully, they'll be able to fix the show by the time it hits Broadway. Otherwise, so long as the public association with the IP is the current pair of shows, it may be some time before a producer risks another take on the material.
I agree, i liken it to all you wanna do from six, we don't initially know that this song is going to be depressing with the upbeat score and witty lyrics and when we do , she's smiling through it and we're laughing with her but the song is quite literally about sexual assault. It's not a laughing matter but we don't really follow that until end because of the actress' journey through the song. They have to do something along the lines of that but without an obvious reveal in the end.
The “repeat the past” line change also takes out the joke of Gastby demonstrating his belief that he can repeat the past by immediately repeating Nick’s words, aka repeating the past.
I feel like you should do a doc on Curtains or We Are the Tigers. They also have these questions of how do you make a mystery musical, because musicals rely on being upfront while mysteries rely on lies and deception, which you touch on here with Gatsby. Something like Rebecca or even Phantom do a decent job because they take place entirely from the perspective of I and Christine, but Gatsby's Nick is almost designed to fade into the background, it can't really be about him.
This is SO fascinating. I'm so grateful to you pulling apart musicals in adaptation, and why something works or doesn't quite. (Does make me want to take a stab at adaptating the books, though! XD)
Had to go into channel uploads to make sure this wasn't a reupload lol
A show with that title could really go wild with it. Still hit the beats of the book plot but do a lot of literal mythologizing of Gatsby. Have people at the party telling WILD stories that can’t possibly be true… right? Or give us flashbacks and backstories that contradict each other, leaving you wondering who’s telling the truth or if anyone knows. And then, at the end, have Gatsby either bring the whole thing crumbling by telling a much more boring reality, or doing something that hints at one of the people telling his story being right/the most right.
The American Dream is a fabrication, and American myths (at least, when it comes to white America) are largely hollow and empty. So lean into that and hype him up only to leave you feeling that same emptiness.
its so interesting to hear the breakdown and get beyond "oh, this gatsby is the spectacle and this is the one that gets it politically" or something similarly reductive. i didn't know they changed the line about being a beautiful little fool and i'm also pretty.... aghast, like, seriously? interesting vid. a year of gatsby isn't bad haha! thanks for your hard work!
A.R.T. is such a nice theater. I saw the tryout of Waitress there, as well as a production of Evita last year, and both were really cool. The Evita production actually included a lot of cool artifacts of the real Eva Peron and Peronista era in the lobby, plus Argentinian empanadas from local vendors. And I personally like that it's in Cambridge, but I can see why Fitzgerald would have rolled over in his grave. So while Gatsby might be the first influencer event they've done, rest assured, they know how to plan cool stuff around a production.
Don't forget about the infamous other Great Gatsby off Bway in 2023 that was in the basement of the Park Central Hotel (which used to be the hotel's swimming pool)
There is another musicalised adaptation of Gatsby called ‘Dinner With Gatsby’ that just had its UK premiere. I was lucky enough to be involved in the production. Plenty of Gatsby to go around right now!
i loved luhrmann's gatsby i was obsessed with it in high school!! im sad nobody really talks about it besides trashing the anachronistic soundtrack which i personally really liked..
I saw a preformance of the Great Gatsby in a theater here in Belgium and I must say that I was impressed by what they managed to achieve, knowing that we don't have the Hollywood budget that the West End or Broadway have.
The downtown theater company Elevator Repair Service has been performing Gatz for several years. It is a verbatim production of the novel. The play is roughly 8 hours long and will be staged at The Public Theater in September ‘24. I’ve seen it four times and highly recommend it.
The Beautiful Little fool line and song did exist in the ART version- it was in all the workshops and notably the audition packets for Daisy, and it was a MUCH better song than the overwraught melodramatic one from the PMP version.
It did exist at some point and may come back. But it wasnt completely ignored in the development
My sister saw The Great Gatsby with Jeremy Jordan when it had its off-broadway preview in New Jersey. My sister was so excited to meet Jeremy Jordan she said to him “I love you!” because she was so nervous
Anyone ever consider that maybe the secret of the songs should be that they are mainly sung by others? Since Nick is POV in the novel, the ensemble can act as his thoughts - I'm thinking sorta a bit like Cats - introducing main players, telling us things that are fact or as Nick simply sees them.
I'd only have short (though multiple) solos (verses?) for our mains, perhaps having them even be contradictive to what we've been told. Some about themselves, or about other characters. They can even be motifs that are built upon later, or used to contrast against.
Ex. Daisy sings Pretty Little Fool (about herself to Nick). Later, at the apartment, Myrtle sings a verse (mocking Daisy. Tom then hits her). A third time, it's sung by a drunk Nick (about Daisy? About Gatsby!?). The last time, it's by Myrtle. (To herself as Tom drives away into the city).
Keeping the solos short help us connect these characters without giving up the cards of what the novel doesn't explicitly say. It keeps the audience in knowing what only Nick knows, but heavily plays up the idea of him being an unreliable narrator by giving us just enough to wonder.
It definitely would have to be more experimental than traditional.
What I found limiting of singing is that when you speak a text you can put multiple layers in there with 2 or 3 intentions for the audience to see and feel, add in pauses and going up or down with your voice not limited to a score. A song, strengthened by the music, can only be 1 in voice, sure there are expressions and body language but it is much more limiting.
As an Aussie it's so hard hearing you say "Boz" Luhrmann 😭
I love the King Lear comparison!
Can you make a video on rent live? I was there and man was it disappointing to not see the show because homeboy broke his leg!
The choreography in moulin rouge is amazing so I know the choreography in this new gatsby will be AMAZING 🤩
I just saw GATSBY on Broadway and whoa! They’ve made some huge changes, the 2nd scene still isn’t quite there but the effect is getting there!
Was blown away by Nick and Jordan’s chemistry!
Noah and Sam were true best friends behind the scene and it's lovely that comes to life on stage!
Intriguing! I’m gonna watch your other Gatsby videos now. Love the National theatre shirt btw!
The musical should be written by someone who loves musicals, Gatsby is one of their most favorite books of all times, was an English Major and loves this time period in history.
I am sorry that I do not know how to write music, cuz I am this person! 😂
I knew next to nothing about ART's Gatsby (other than that it exists) so this was super interesting! just a side note though: I think Baz Luhrmann's name is pronounced with a short "a" sound (as in "Baz" rhymes with "jazz")
The only musical version of Gatsby I truely need is Tom Levitt's and Julia Houston's from Smash
Yes, this!! 😂
I'm not sure why but this video is the first thing that's ever made me I interested in reading great Gatsby
I am SO excited for this Gatsby. I hope I can see it someday, whether it's on broadway, off, or otherwise.
Loved this video. It’s very different from the other review of Gatsby at ART that I have seen that praised a few of the elements you didn’t enjoy as much. Namely how mysterious Gatsby was and the music, which they said wasn’t very similar and wasn’t beholden to one genre. Love hearing different takes, and I hope to see this production
I'm seeing both of the Gatsbys this week-- excited to compare/contrast!
Do you think the great Gatsby is one of the those books where it's impossible to adapt from it book form and can only work as book? Is that why both Musical are struggling to be faithful to source.
Solea is one of the greatest actors of our generation. You can quote me on that.
I have not seen either of these musicals yet, but I find the scenery choice for the A.R.T. Gatsby would work thematically with Fitzgerald’s tale of the disillusionment of the American Dream. Both sound wonderful on their own merits. I hope I will be able to get tickets and get up that way to see them.
This was such a fantastic review!!
Thank you!!! Your review really resonated with what I have been feeling about this production since l left the ART.
Good for you for not missing the longest day!
When the MET did Harbison's opera of Gatsby, Lorraine Hunt-Liberson stole the show as Myrtle. A DEEP DIVE suggestion: Albee's Tiny Alice. I know it's not a musical, but it's wild play and the original Broadway production is probably quite a tale.
Interesting to hear your thoughts on both of these productions! I really need to read that book.
I am lucky enough to have gotten to see A.R.T.’s Gatsby during previews. I also published an academic paper about how Nick Carraway’s whole emotional state can be (in my opinion) traced to him experiencing compulsory heterosexuality. Basically, I love the great gatsby. I respect your point about the “beautiful fool” line - I wish it still came from daisy, but I loved having it be about Gatsby. He’s the fool for trying to change his fate and his life. For chasing his American dream. I think it would have been WAY more meaningful from Daisy instead of wolfshein, but I do feel that’s their central seed. That gatsby was a beautiful, romantic fool. I was thrilled to see this video pop up on my feed today. Love your takes and hearing you talk about both Gatsbys :)
calm thyself, hunny
Can’t wait for Part 4: Gatz in the fall 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻
This one seems much better than the broadway one. The darker tone alone is a win.
i love king lear! i played the duke of cornwall!
Just saw this production last night. I haven't seen the broadway production. I completely agree about the workers chorus not making any sense. I dont know if they've made major changes, but i definitely felt the Buchanan's were selfish and unlikable in the introduction scene. The transition from the opening number into that first scene of dialogue was still pretty clunky.
It been interesting to read people's opinions on the Myrtle death now that I've seen the show. My husband and I didnt like it. It took far too long which added an unintentional comedy to it. We were the most emotionally invested in Myrtle and were so wowed by the performance. The death scene just didn't land for us.
I'm really excited to see what changes they make in the next year or so. I think this production has a lot of potential. There were so many moments that pulled me in and really engaged me. Though it made the parts that didnt work stand out the a sore thumb.
Also want to add that I thought all the dialogue between Myrtle and George and the post car death dialogue between Daisy and Tom were emotionally gripping.
Final final comment. They need to rework that ending number. I understand the desire to end the show with a bang. As an audience member, I yearned for something more personal, smaller, and more intimate. Perhaps there isn't even a song as Nick decides to leavw Long Island and world of the Gatsbys and the Buchanans behind.
Cannot believe I’m this early
i want to see this
babe wake up new wait in the wings video
nice
Sounds like there should be a Tale of No Gatsby's?
Are they not both on Broadway ???
Not yet. This one is still in development
@@Chibbykins Where is the rest of the Broadway CD ?
@@fairamir1 you mean like the soundtrack?
@@Chibbykins No the CD of the Howland / Jordan show only 3 songs on Spotify
@@fairamir1my daughter the obsessed superfan told me that “the rest of the soundtrack is delayed.” 🤷🏼♀️
Have you heard of the musical Zelda (I think now renamed Hang the Moon)? It's from a while back and is a biographical musical of Zelda's life and it was pretty good. There's a pro-shot, I think.
Ooh I must find this!
So happy ive discovered your channel. You are so more interesting and open to discussion compared to mikeyjo in the uk xx
i love these videos, but the thumbnails kind of make the videos seem mass produced and bland, with their saturated colors. some feedback.
The moment you equated the “Gatsby” set to “Lempicka”, you confirmed my worst fears for the A.R.T. version. “Lempicka” was such a mess, both from a storytelling, and directorial perspective. I had mixed feelings towards “The Great Gatsby” at PaperMill Playhouse, but understood why it was a sold-out run. It was a lavish production, and exactly the type of musical casual theatergoers and tourists enjoy. Which is why it is one of the few successful new shows on Broadway. “Gatsby”, on the other hand, just sounds awful and like a complete train wreck. Generally I am a fan of Florence + The Machine, but after seeing “The Notebook”, I have no faith in songwriters composing musicals. They seem to not understand how musical theater works.
Unless you are a big theater fan, like Sarah Bariellas.
Or amazingly talented Like Tim Minchin.
lol what
I was pretty disappointed by the ART production (not the cast, they were super talented). I too felt the music was very same-y and somewhat mediocre (as a Florence fan, I was really sad about that) and I felt like they were using the plot of Gatsby to make cultural critiques that were not the cultural critiques of the book. It didn't feel like Gatsby, this production wasn't suffused with the nihilism I get from the book. The final song really clinched it for me - We Beat On had this note of admiration for Gatsby and hope for the future which...that line in the book is so poignant (for me) because of its hopelessness.
"There's really no variation in the music" Yeah, that's kinda just Florence Welch. I could've told you that without even seeing the show. She's like Mumford & Sons - If you've heard one of her songs, you have heard every one of her songs.
I heard the soundtrack of the other Gatsby musical and I found it very "meh 😒". I have high hopes for this one.
Daisy is supposed to be incredibly gorgeous so they hire a plain woman and Gatsby is prettier
lol ofc you are going to trash this show, you got paid by the other one.
He was pretty critical of the other one...
lol did you watch the video? He gave it a lot of praise and then gave critiques as well.
Um, the other Gatsby video had basically everybody admitting that show is just fun empty spectacle (with a lot of hard work behind it but still). He seems more brutally honest here, sure, but he didn't give the other version a rave review
I don’t get the impression that this video is trashing the ART production at all… it’s making me, a Gatsby Broadway fan , want to see the ART version, it sounds really different and interesting to me.
@Chibbykins I do find it very interesting how he's talking about the PMP Gatsby here in such a different tone than the documentary that was supposedly "unbiased" and his own thoughts and opinions...along with that he had mentioned "some people" didn't want that doc released because it was critical (aka PMP gatsby) when it wasn't very critical at all compared to this.
It really just shows how much control that production really had and is interesting to see. Because you'd think in an unbiased video, some of these thoughts would have been included as well but were conveniently kept out until now. I'm glad they're out here now for people to see and hear but, it's very interesting indeed to see.
In truth it makes the PMP Gatsby team look worse, as if they're paying off people for good spin.
A show with that title could really go wild with it. Still hit the beats of the book plot but do a lot of literal mythologizing of Gatsby. Have people at the party telling WILD stories that can’t possibly be true… right? Or give us flashbacks and backstories that contradict each other, leaving you wondering who’s telling the truth or if anyone knows. And then, at the end, have Gatsby either bring the whole thing crumbling by telling a much more boring reality, or doing something that hints at one of the people telling his story being right/the most right.
The American Dream is a fabrication, and American myths (at least, when it comes to white America) are largely hollow and empty. So lean into that and hype him up only to leave you feeling that same emptiness.