The Broken Beaver Part 1: Wood Chipper Repair
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ม.ค. 2025
- The Broken Beaver; A Vermeer 1800-A with a 110 HP John Deere, I Tech Motor W / Turbo, spinning a chipping drum a minimum of 2,000 RPM's and the shaft breaks and becomes three pieces! That would make your woody job go limp! This is part one to a series that fabricates a new rotating unit for the tree chipper, looking at what we have to replace and starting to whittle away on some steel for the center shaft!
great vids. funny at work today we were talking about guys who think they know it all run a bridgeport, but the guys that actually know whats going on run a horizontal ;). fav part of these vids is when you make a mistake of any sort you laugh and take a second to smile seemingly to your self about the little snafu. a rare trait indeed.
What an outstanding machinist you are Keith. You inspire. Thank you for your professionalism . This great country is great because of people like you .
One day when I grow up I want a big lathe like yours. I have no need for it, but watching your videos really makes me want one :)
Thanks for the comment Fred, I'm a bit winded, from doing the project and geting everthing else started for the new year! I'll get the rest posted sometime this week! ;{)---
i can relly appreciate the warm shop idea !!!!! being a mechanic and working on cars when its 20 degrees outside ( even with the doors closed ) is really hard on your hands !!!
"And then we got the woodstock..."
That line just got you a sub from the UK!
Thanks! High time for a serious turning, smokin' blue chips vid! Cookin' with that Colchester once you got below the skin and dialed into the sweet spot. I like warm handles too, but can't quite keep a fire all night in the small stove in my workshop; temp drops to 50 or so by dawn. Once finally warm it only cools slowly, with 7 or so tons of machines in 400 square feet of space. I'll have to try green wood, lord knows there is plenty after Sandy. Wish my woodpile was as big as yours!
I watch other machining channels but when I watch your videos I feel like I'm visiting a buddy's shop and he's explaining everything he's doing, not just the what's but the why's. Thanks for posting these vids!!
thanks. it feels like i am hanging out in the shop with you and talking weather. nice work and beautiful tools.!
Very impressive! That's quite a chunk of metal... It will be a great series to watch.
Keith, terrific work, terrific teaching skills, terrific camera work, terrific onscreen presence.Dave, gardner ma.
My grandparents retired in Eastham. When I was a kid I spent a summer with them. That was when they were moving the Truro light. Brought back a great memory!
would be great to see a close up of the tool bit from the top to understand the positive and negative thanks for making great videos.
"We got a lot of stock...wood stock." Ha! that cracked me up. I'm watching all of your early videos to catch up on your channel. I watch the new ones the day that they come out, but I like your style, and I learn a lot by watching your earlier videos. Keep up the good work.
Cool video! Pretty neat to see the difference in surface finishes with nothing more than a change in tool geometry. Nothing like seeing a good size lathe hogging some metal off!
nice one. the bit on harmonics is interesting.. the closeup shows a bit of a dig in a regular pattern, no doubt when the wave is pushing on the tool as it processes around the work. (looks like every 3/4in or so?) i've noticed this on smaller pieces on my lathe; it looked more like chatter, but there was definitely a resonance pattern. looking forward to #2!
I spent the best years of my life on the Cape and I sure miss the weathered cedar shakes like on your shop. Rain, cold, sleet, snow and then do it all over again the next day. The best time of year is the winter on the Cape. No tourists. Ha! Pete
Another winner. Thanks Keith!
Thanks for the comment, that method is right there in my book also; in fact I show it in other videos! This particular job, I wanted a more rigged set up for hogging off some serious metals before getting down to size and showing other ways to getter done. I switch over to the four jaw to finish the shaft in the rest of the series. ;{)---
I have a wood stove just like that. Its been keeping us warm for over 35 years.
I'll be back for part 2 that's one big shaft !!! I love what comes in the door Videos !!!
Keith, you're the best, as usual! :] Can't wait for the rest of the series! Thanks for all the time you take to share all your knowledge with us :]
thanks for showing the different insert results, im just getting into using insert tooling. ive got alot to learn about it! thanks again sir
awesome! i love it, a few chips lol... the highlight of all my youtube subscriptions. im looking forward to the rest of this job
When you first said "100 thousandths clearance" my mind said "1 thousandths clearance" and I'm thinking "That seems about right... what's the big deal?" and then you put that rattly-ass shaft in there and I'm like "Oh *that's* the big deal!" So if I were your friend I'd definitely be calling Vermeer and telling them about this. They may want to recall these chippers in order to prevent catastrophic failures. Drum failures can be deadly with wood chippers. Seriously. Call Vermeer.
Nice vid!
That belt drive drill is a beautiful thing man.
...another question Keith! Please explain difference in positive and negative tool bits.
Thanks
Dave
Hi Keith
In the land down under we call the a a Centre Square
Learning heeps
Keep up the good work :-)
They are the same height or thickness, I'm sure you could just Google DNMP & DNMG to compare tool design on the top face of the two! I will be grabbing the camera and giving a glimpse in part three, the part two that is loading right now starts out with a cool close up of the CNMP! ;{)---
Yes it is and was done that way because your strength in the pull is stronger than push and you don’t have to adjust your stance to loosen the tailstock.
;{)---
You were talking about the temp in your shop, and how you handle it. I do the same my shop is heated all winter long, one of the bigger problems is condensation, bad stuff for electronics and machines
this is an excellent series! all sorts of good techniques. i wish i had the money to increase tooling.
I watched you video on those guys running the chipper i can see why it broke, that machine not designed for saw log's . great job as always.
Just for kicks, did you by any chance put the old shaft in the lathe just to see how much run out it may have had?
Hi Keith,
for shafts as such you are machining, here we set it on lathe with steady rest then center drill, by this method the job runs fairly true compared to as you see at 31:30. Is there any specific reason as to why you choose to center drill on drill press before loading on lathe?
I appreciate the details you share. 'm taking out time everyday to watch "atleast" one video of your playlist. Thank you
Can you expand more on chip color and what it tells you. I'm clueless, but I thought if the chips came out blue, I was cutting to hard or turning too fast.
Thanks
Hi Keith Why not just put the stock in the lathe and using a steady rest drill the holes for the centers?
Nice to see some failure analysis. To be really certain about root cause for the failure you have to look closely on all details and understand the loading this part has. However, from the radial marks you have near the welds it indicates multiple starting point of cracks. Making welds always means initiated cracks so the root cause is maybe a small part due to bad welding but mostly bad design having a weld at that location. Depending on the loading the clearance might influence the life.
Looks to me like no preheat on the fabrication of that shaft and flange, which caused the cracking throughout the heat-affected-zone on the toe of that weld nugget! Amazing to see such a massive shaft destroyed by such an (initially) small fault over time... Really informative channel Keith, thanks! =)
Some inserts can't handle the interrupted cutting and the pounding of weld build up! Sometimes massaging the top of the build ups with a grinder softens the impacting and you can get under the surface faster. I'm not sure what your cutting or insert type just thowing a tip out of the hat! ;{)---
Keep trucking, your concern proves your workmanship expectations. You’re only going to be supporting the ends of your part; you need to support the middle as well, not just because of weight but because of the sag also! Use High pressure lube and keep an eye on them. If it makes you feel better drill a larger hole and single point the taper to suit your comfort zone size. If there was a set of rules for the limits someone would ignore them anyhow. ;{)---
Would it have been possible Keith to turn in between centers using a lathe dog to drive the stock to turn it true to the centers? I guess though that what have required a pretty big lathe dog!
I haven’t finished editing the rest of the series, may be a couple days! Sorry
;{)---
What was the most proud era for machinist, like in your opinion what decade cared the most about their workmen ship. A thousand seems a whole lot. Do you find a grey area from the late 70's to the mid 80's? Do you know what I mean.
Hey Keith, how do you determine what kind of metal to use on certain jobs? I have an old Monarch lathe that I need to make a new crossfeed screw and nut and also a spindle and screw for the tailstock. What kind of steel should I get for these parts?
I would think, shear pin means, giving way and free spinning. This broke the shaft and removed 1/4" plating around the drum, snapped one blade off after it removed the bolts holding the shut assembly on and some other stuff you can't see in the photos he gave me from his phone. ;{)---
Keith, I'd enjoy seeing it in action too. I can imagine the old shaft wasn't very well balanced compared to your replacement. Your vids came at just the right time, as I have just started training on the lathe. Now, if I can figure out why I was chipping inserts last friday... :0
The shaft on your web site is the work I was questioning myself on how I would make. How did you determine the #8, was it called out on the print?I've never worked with anything that long before. I've worked with big dia.'s but mostly short turning and face work.In my 15 year career so far I have never found any info or reputable insight on this subject.Unless specified by print I always went with what looked proportional.
Keith...I couldn't "catch" the kind of cutting oil you use......something based?
Thanks
Dave
Hi Keld,Thanks for giving me something to glance at with my coffee this morning! Yes my wipers need to be refelted or felt up or minimum played with! LOL ;{)---
No! there are a couple dozen beavers on cape!
Yes you can, as I edit the rest of this series, I will through in a clip of them side by side! ;{)---
Well only because you mentioned it! LOL Last night I talked to The owner and around tenish today I get my first chance to watch it in action. He said that it has never ran so smooth and the recovery time is 45% faster after a major bogging load. ;{)---
Mr. Fenner I have a stumper for ya, or for anyone else commenting.Are there designated center drill sizes for proper support of a shaft? I know drill depth is typ. 2/3 up the center drill.For ex. is a #2 center drill for supportting up to say 1" dia.?Or is it strickly operators choice.I have questioned myself if I were to turn 12" stock of fairly significant length, what center would I choose.Other than the obvious biggest one I have on hand choise.
Hey Keith, were the two halves of that shaft friction welded together, giving that strange central weld pattern that broke?
Is the vice on your KT mill made by ENCO? It looks just like one I have. Thanks for all the great videos, it's cold here and i don't have any heat in my shop, watching your videos is the next best thing!
why didn't you use 2 centers; 1 fixed, 1 live and an carrier and catch pin ? instead of a 3-jaw and 1 live center ? this way you wouldn't have to flip it around and it wil be as concentric as it can get. then adjust the tail stock to compensate for a conelike shape of the shaft. just a tip from holland :)
Is this the same machine that they tried to weld the bearing in?
what about the welds acting like shear pins on the undersized shaft?
For the spindle of the tailstock, I would probably go with 1137 or 1141, due to the amount of machining steps, a medium-carbon steels W / Higher Mech. Properties. QQ-S-637 - UNS G11370, G11410. ;{)---
The color of the chip is or can be progressive in the changing, after it has been removed, still flying in the air from natural, yellow, golden blue, purple to dark blue almost black! But if it is coming off the tool or insert light golden color you’re in the good production chip or maximized the combination of speed feed and depth of cut for the material. ;{)---
This is a great vid ,, I enjoy your workings alot , keep them coming
You know your making chips when you end up with a metal hay bale lol and you have to use a bale hook to move it 😂 great video I love big lathes and machinery I’d love to own a big monarch one day stay safe everyone god bless
Kind of looks like it might have started with small surface cracks on the edges of the weld. Doesn't help that it only had fillet welds holding it. With that clearance, the shaft would have been flexing inside the hub, which would have put surface tension on the weld cracks.
Keith, what is your opinion of multi-purpose machines? specifically the Smithy 1324 Ganite machine?
I used to be employed as a mechanic at a Vermeer dealer, and this is not the first broken shaft I've seen. That part takes a very high amount of abuse in the normal course of operation. Not only is it spinning and having to deal with the uneven types of wood the blades are cutting, it also has hydraulic feed rollers pushing the wood in against the drum. You'd think they would have considered these forces in the design process, and not left so much tolerance in the hub's bore. That's what you get with mass production I guess.
Must have been an anomaly in the material supply???Shizz happens. And a "gitter-done" day! Ha ha. Gota ponder the mfg. warrantee....... Bet Keif's shaft will spin longer than the OEM.
I use a stock and reference book, if not familiar with app. The threaded parts or screws, first thought is to go to 1213/15 screw machine stock, but reading on, stressproof and 1144 Hi stress ASTM A311 class B or Fatigue-proof TM LaSalle Steel Co. are recommended for lead screw making, high accuracy and smooth gloss finishes. ;{)---
I have a lot more to edit for this series, maybe four more hours worth, we'll see, maybe throughout this week. ;{)---
You are exactly right and you will see me change set ups, even though I don’t run the job between centers, I switch up to other ways that you may be able to true turn your projects, as this series progresses! ;{)---
I know it is faster to use the 3 jaw chuck than using a DOG drive , but working between centers is it not more accurate to use the dog drive way ? placing the dog to drive off of a jaw and a center clamped in the three jaw chuck?
Keith,
Why does your tail stock have a left handed thread to tighten it to the bed?
W. Kirk Crawford
Tularosa, New Mexico
do you have a grinder fitment for the tooling because i recon you could just stick a steel cutting alloy bade on high speed and go to town with it
What does the positive and the negative tool bit, means?
That was some nice steel-wool you were makin' there man! XD
A positive rake on a tool bit, scoops under the metal, giving the ease of downward travel of the material from the cutting edge, across the top surface and negative rake on a tool bit, lifts or pushes the metal coming off the cutting edge almost giving a ricochet / skipping effect, due to the increased tool pressure. ;{)---
with .1 difference I wonder how they centered the hub on the shaft?
Thanks for spending your Time/ 2 share your Knowledge.
Many thanks from Germany for all your videos. I enjoy them. I wish you were on Metrics. ;)
Always love your stuff Keith. Wondering on setup of the lathe, you mentioned bad floor &setting on steel plate. Do you have any kind of vibration absorber such as Unisorb or rubber mount leveling screws supporting the lathe? If not why?
krtichacek I have disc plates under my jack screws between the plates on the floor and the jack screws, to get a greate support after leveling it several adjustments in the first couple years of time. ;{)-----
Oh I love inside jobs.. lol... ty for another great video.
Keith, great vid as always. I have a question. I noted that when you changed from a positive to a negative insert you didn't make any adjustment to put the point back on center. Are the inserts designed to no adjustment is necessary and they end up on center no matter which type is used or is it that the minor difference in height makes no difference?
Looking forward to the rest of the series, thanks!
Alright Keith, I can't take it anymore. How the hell do you drill so deep with those center drills without them snapping? Before I thought it must just be the rigidity or your machines, but no way here as you are holding it by hand! I can seldom do more than get the point in, any more than that and it's probably gonna snap. Maybe it's cause I'm using carbide?
I love your vids keith!Since thanksgiving i have watched over 250 of them!I learn so much from watching you,keep it up.GOD bless!p.s. can you tell the by looking the difference in a negative rake bit and positive?
what kind of heater is that?
What steel manual are you referring to in this video?
Keith had explained in response somewhere in this mixed mess of comments and I am inclined to think it is a good idea, to quote Keith... "more offen than not you have to change your stance to loosen a right hand thread, because your stronger on the pull!"
Yes it is, came that way, it only felt odd for awhile, more offen than not you have to change your stance to loosen a right hand thread, because your stronger on the pull! ;{)---
I caught that as well. Apparently a standard we are not aware of for some reason.
Ya, you are going to have some gear noise and the reason you can hear it is because everything else is quite! I did have the small gear that drove my power feed out of alignment when I first started mine; give a hell of a gear screech. As long as you can definitely feel back lash in all the gears for their complete rotation, it will be fine! ;{)---
As you watch the rest of the series you will see that the ruffing was faster and would of been wasted time due to the welding on down the road. A lot of comments about the same subject throughout this series. ;{)-----
It is basically the tool bits or insert bits angle of approach to the part. If the angle of the approach is tilted toward the part its cutting it is referred to, as a negative angle and if tilting away it is a positive angle. There are variations to the shape of the top side of some inserts that give one the others characteristic. ;{)---
Question - at around 20.00 or so, you tightened up the tail stock locking but - you were going counter-clockwise - maybe the locking to the bed has some strange config? Anyways - that's one big-ass chunk! I use sulfur based cutting oil too but always get a bit concerned when smoke suggests super hot tool temps. You inspired me to do a 9 part series looking at some of my old work from way back, much smaller stuff - /watch?v=QeBU97uC-Yk - mostly gadgets!
Hey Keith what is the bran name and model of your wood heater? also I do not see a chimney?!
Lawrence
Is your tailstock clamp left hand thread? and Why?
I hate it when the beaver goes down because it's broke. Can you use Bear glue on a broken beaver? ;) Thank you for bringing these vids. Keep up the good work.
Great video as usual! Curiosity question... is the hold down bolt on the tail stock left hand thread? If so is there a specific reason?
It is a King, it has a 6 inch stove pipe, next video gives a closer look. ;{)---
I'm looking to get into learning some machining for personal projects. What type of small lathe would you recommend for somebody just starting to learn? Awesome videos by the way, I've learned a lot from watching you.
What kind of oil do you use in your gun, when you lubed the ways?
I watched this series a few years ago. Now with Putin on the march, it gives me comfort to see something positive.