Flip Your Meridians! - Making a Video of My BIG Mistake

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ม.ค. 2025

ความคิดเห็น • 30

  • @stevez2400
    @stevez2400 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Enjoyed this very much. Thanks for sharing it. The video software was a nice addition. I noticed in the image of your rig starting at about 0:30 that you have what appears to be a SmallRig weight to fine tune the balance on the third axis. I've played around with this, but haven't completely nailed. If you have a video on this I'd be interested. Thanks in advance! :)

    • @Aero19612
      @Aero19612  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks for watching, Steve! I've shown this weight on different scopes but have not made a video explicitly addressing it. A couple of things:
      1. Try to put the weight as close as you can to the DEC axis, then adjust its distance from the DEC axis to get balance.
      2. It's a "nice-to-have" but not sure if it really provides a guiding performance boost. Mounts probably use the same motor for the DEC and RA axes. The torque required for RA guiding is much larger than the torque required for DEC guiding, so an off-balance DEC axis is probably not that bad given the excess torque available on that axis.

  • @billblanshan3021
    @billblanshan3021 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Jay, I think the meridian limits in GSS tells the mount when to make the flip. example. on my setup I use a 5 degree limit, so what that means is, if I am on the east side of pier and tell the mount to slew to a target that has not past 5 degrees past meridian, it will stay on the east side. but as soon as it passes 5 degrees past meridian and you command a slew, it will flip. that's also why in Nina I make the minimum wait time around 6 minutes to make sure GSS gets past it's limit. hope that makes sense but that's how I have been handling my setup, but I could be wrong, lol.

    • @Aero19612
      @Aero19612  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hey Bill. There are two questions:
      1. How far past the meridian must a slew target be before a meridian flip occurs? - what you are commenting on
      2. During tracking, is there a "past meridian limit" where a meridian flip automatically executed (by EQ6-R? GSS? NINA? ASCOM? ???)
      I don't think the GSS meridian limit you refer to does either of these things. According to the GSS manual:
      "Over Meridian Limit - degrees before or passed the meridian the mount can travel before
      running into a limit alert. Warning - limits will not stop the mount from moving and simply
      displays a warning light. It is up to the user to see that the mount is not damaged or is
      flipped when necessary"
      It just generates a warning, but no action.
      I think the answer to the two questions is EQ6-R software. In my CGEM, I would access these parameters via the handset. But I don't use the handset for the EQ6-R. I would expect GSS to make these available for editing. I probably need to ask Robert...

    • @billblanshan3021
      @billblanshan3021 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      So what's weird, when I first started using GSS and their default meridian limit value, I had issues with flipping using the same NINA meridian values I used with eqmod, so I reduced the GSS value to 5 degrees past and everything started working fine. Who knows, maybe it was a bug in NINA at the time 🤷. If clear tonight and while the sky is torched with fireworks, maybe I will test this out further. As for a hard limit, I believe this is embedded in the EQ6/8 firmware. I know there is a limit because I ran into it while timelapsing solar images as I did not want to flip. I know other GSS users have asked Robert (GSS creator) to add hard limits to GSS but I don't know where that ended up. I will try and investigate this too. I will send Robert an email and CC you on it to get more clarifications on this

    • @Aero19612
      @Aero19612  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks Bill. I sent a message to the GSS support site (maybe you got the email if you subscribe to those). In looking through the GSS and NINA logs from that night, I see where GSS throws a warning for exceeding the limit I set (but doesn't do anything). At 2:37am, when the lucky meridian flip occurred, I see that NINA forced a re-slew because the target drifted too much based on a trigger for "center after drift" I set in my sequence. So, I suspect you are correct. The mount hit the firmware EQ6-R hard stop at 22.5 deg past meridian, stopped tracking, the target drifted, NINA caught it, and issued a re-slew/center that caused the meridian flip. Still more guesses than facts.

    • @billblanshan3021
      @billblanshan3021 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Aero19612 Just saw the email you posted. Should be an interesting conversation to be had. It might also be NINA did something weird. On the previous nightly update, I went to bed and had NINA control everything through the advanced sequencer and when I got up in the morning my telescope was pointing directly towards the ground as if the meridian flip went backwards. I never had that happen before but it happened to do it on the night that I decided to get some sleep, lol. Lost 4 hours of imaging that night. Last night everything flipped ok 🤷. I remember over a year ago I asked Robert about how GSS handles meridian flips and if I recall he said that the imaging software actually controls it which I found odd in the our conversation because it seems like the mount software should control the flip after so many degrees past the meridian. Let see what he says per your email to him 😎

    • @Aero19612
      @Aero19612  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Looks like you are correct: The GSS meridian limit setting controls how far a slew-to target must be before a slew initiates a meridian flip. While tracking, however, it doesn't appear to do anything other than set a warning icon.

  • @AstroCrescent
    @AstroCrescent 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    For me, it another chapter of the Astro book. Thanks fir sharing your experience.

    • @Aero19612
      @Aero19612  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I have a thick Astro book. Always something to learn.

  • @ventania9320
    @ventania9320 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video James! Wonderful idea to use the ZWO planetary camera in this setup as an All Sky camera and to make a short all night session video out of that. I have a ASI 178MM available and should be able to create a similar setup with my equipment. At least something useful to work on during the short summer nights in the northern hemispshere.
    Meridian Flips are as far as I know triggered by the firmware in the mount. That is at least how it works for Sky-Watcher mounts. I use EQMOD rather than GSS to connect to the mount. Never really understood what GSS intends to improve on EQMOD other than showing that 3D model of the mount (which I never found very useful). EQMOD mount limits can be set and enabled, thus allowing tracking beyond the meridian until it reaches the mount limit. It will then stop all motors to prevent damage to equipment. Trick is to also set a limit in your session control software. I prefer SGP over NINA, but both work the same in this respect. The limit set in the session control software (NINA or SGP) should be smaller than the limit set in the mount control software (GSS or EQMOD), otherwise the limit in the mount control software will be reached first and it will just stop all motors.
    If then indeed the limit in the session control software (NINA or SGP) is reached first, it will at that point issue a slew command to the target it is already pointing to. Since it will do that however when that object has already been tracked some time beyond the meridian, the mount firmware then understands that a meridian flip is in order. It can allow tracking beyond the meridian, but it will flip the mount when a slew command is issued to a position at the other side of the meridian. That slew command is automatically provided by the session control software with its automated meridian flip feature.
    In my case mount limits are set in EQMOD to allow for tracking up to almost one hour (15 degrees) post meridian, while SGP is instructed to trigger a meridian flip at two minutes post meridian. Having a pointing model available in EQMOD with sync points at both sides of the meridian (including a few close to the meridian) appears to improve the reliability of the entire process. Alternatively you can instruct NINA or SGP to trigger a meridian flip at a later moment post meridian if that is mechanically still safe for your setup.

    • @Aero19612
      @Aero19612  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Absolutely! Give the ride-along camera shot. Sometimes you learn some scary things that your mount does while you were asleep. Ooops. I like GSS. Not sure it does anything better than EQMOD. It has the virtue of being a more "modern" interface for whatever that's worth. In some cases, like motion limits, I'd like to see it provide the functionality of EQMOD. I had no experience with EQMOD or even heard of GSS when I got my EQ6-R. A friend suggested I look at GSS. I've been pretty happy with it. I found the 3D mount graphic + Remote Desktop creates CPU processing bottlenecks, so I don't use the 3D graphic. Thanks for watching!

  • @jonkjon
    @jonkjon 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    It was recommended to me to use the pause feature in NINA for the meridian. Set it for a couple of minutes before the meridian and to resume a couple of minutes after the meridian. Use the hand controller for the mount to set the option to stop tracking when reaching the meridian. This give you a fail-safe in the event NINA fails for some reason (or you make a mistake). It's like having a meridian limit configured in EqMod except without the benefit of being able to track beyond the meridian. (Unless your hand controller/mount supports that already.)

    • @Aero19612
      @Aero19612  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      In this case, I wasn't having NINA do the meridian flip since I was switching from one target to another one. I just need to pick an intermediate target waaay on the other side of the meridian to ensure the mount does the meridian flip during the slew. That approach works just fine. Thanks for watching!

  • @yangyunbo1
    @yangyunbo1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    maybe finish one target and park the mount then do the second target is more safe . or you can set your meridian time much shooter in ascom driver let the system know the m16 is already past the meridian i am not sure.

    • @Aero19612
      @Aero19612  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hey Charles. Actually, my original plan works fine, I just got "cute" on this night by assuming the meridian flip would occur during the slew, but M16 wasn't quite far enough past the meridian. Lesson learned!

    • @yangyunbo1
      @yangyunbo1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Aero19612 😄😄

  • @Aerostar509
    @Aerostar509 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I learn so much watching your videos, keep up the good work. Tim

    • @Aero19612
      @Aero19612  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Haha. This time you learned what not to do

  • @AstroQuest1
    @AstroQuest1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent video James, I absolutely love the idea of setting up a cloud cam and recording separately. I don't know if I have the time and patience to set something up like that yet - another thing for retirement. I have given up on trying to understand who or what program initiates and decides the meridian flip. I have experienced this many times especially since my poor FOV. I suspect EQMOD-Skywatcher (Orion in my case or Synta) actually tells how far past the meridian to track or where to actually do the flip when you are in these situations. I typically do what you did the first night when I wind up in these situations just to be on the safe side. Cheers

    • @Aero19612
      @Aero19612  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Ha. Funny. Just watching your video with Joe and Glenn - I'll comment over there
      Yes. I think you're correct. Sky-Watcher probably takes over with some default limit. Whew. Saved my butt there. I'll go back to the long slews. Much, much safer.

  • @dalepowell7353
    @dalepowell7353 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Another great timely video! I recently experienced a very similar problem with my EQ6-R Pro - GSS - NINA setup. The experience makes me wonder if GSS - EQ6-R Pro have different meridian flip behaviors when receiving external slew commands as compared to meridian flip/mount limit behavior when tracking.
    Using GSS with my new EQ6-R Pro I experienced tracking beyond meridian when a NINA sequence initiated a slew to a first target that was at or just beyond the meridian. The mount did not switch sides during the initial slew and eventually my camera tracked into contact with the tripod. Slews to subsequent sequence targets approach from the correct pier side and executed meridian flips normally. Recently I changed the GSS Meridan Limit setting to 0. However, I am not confident this will solve the problem.
    Currently GSS provides 3 options for what to do when a Meridian Limit is reached. 1) do nothing; 2) Park the Scope; 3) Stop Tracking. The obvious, to me at least, 4th option: Switch side of Pier, is not offered. It is also not yet clear to me if this Meridian limit setting is operational for both slews and tracking. I guess this will likely become clearer to me with further use.
    It could be that GSS is not the correct ASCOM driver choice for me. I do want unattended imaging after starting a NINA session and
    checking to see that the initial behavior is OK. GSS's creator replied to a person asking a similar question to mine, that it is the owner's
    responsibility to ensure that the mount does not drive the rig into a tripod leg. Possibly I should take this to mean that he does not intend
    for GSS to support unattended imaging.
    I am able to use my Celestron AVX - handcontroller - CPWI - NINA set up for unattended imaging sessions without experiencing this particular problem. I may be wrong, but after using my Celestron AVX for about 2 years for astrophotography, I am under the impression that the mount/handcontroller combination chooses the appropriate side of pier when given a slew command to a target close to or just past the Meridian. I could be confused about this because Celestron requires the use of the handcontroller and their CPWI ASCOM driver. CPWI has Meridian flip/slew limit settings, so it could be the one making the side of pier decisions. The AVX - handcontroller - CPWI - NINA setup never allowed a NINA initiated slew command to drive the mount past Meridian limits. Something in that setup executes a side of
    pier decision that avoids slewing the mount past the meridian limits.
    I would like to understand my new mount a little better by clarifying the EQ6-R Pro's slew behavior (as opposed to it's tracking behavior). Setting aside 3rd party applications like GSS and NINA, I would like to know if the Skywatcher mount or their SynScanPro ASCOM driver have the capability to make side of pier decisions when receiving an external slew command. I purchased the mount from HiPoint, so I took advantage of their tech support and asked them. If they are able to clarify I'll post their response.
    Dale

    • @Aero19612
      @Aero19612  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hey Dale. This is a surprisingly complicated and fuzzy topic. I've communicated with Rob Morgan (GSS developer) and with Sky-watcher support trying to sort this out. Here's my current understanding (may still be wrong in areas!):
      1. The GSS Meridian Limit setting controls how GSS performs slews (not tracking). When you slew to a target on the other side of the meridian outside your setting, GSS will perform a meridian flip. If the target is within your limit setting, it will go past the meridian (no flip) to get to the target. Go to GSS site and find the video on this topic that Rob posted
      2. During tracking, the GSS Meridian Limit only sets a warning and takes no action. I haven't tested the options you refer to. The manual says you have to take action manually when the limit warning is set.
      3. Sky-watcher has an auto-flip option, but (I think) this is only present when the handset is connected. Mine is not.
      4. I believe my "lucky" meridian flip in the video was initiated by NINA when the target drifted > 1 arc-min from the intended coords. I use the "Recenter After Drift" trigger instruction in my NINA sequencer. So when it drifted too far is re-slewed to the target and did a meridian flip then.
      Let me know what you find out.

  • @rosevan5485
    @rosevan5485 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hello Mr.Lamb. I was just wondering? Didn’t you use SGPro software before ? And know you switched to NiNa which I have no idea what this program is….
    I have a pretty good setup, using SGPro and PixInsight…. A year ago I almost died and don’t have the energy anymore to learn and reprogram my setup. I’m 53 and surely am not an engineer…… I would like for you if you can ….. in time…. Please explain why you switched to Nina ? And is it difficult and all…. Because I would be scared to screw up my setup……. I haven’t been Imaging since about a year and a half because of my health…. It seems as though I am not at all anymore in tune with technology…. PS. I have the same mount as you… the later version…..the same mono camera and the same filter wheel. I also have an automated focus control… I did not see on your set up but it seems you do….. I am a subscriber of yours. You always give great suggestions and solutions to people like me. I appreciate your time if you do so answer me. From Quebec , Canada. Cheers !

    • @Aero19612
      @Aero19612  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hello Quebec! Thank you for watching my videos! No, I never did use SGP (I may have mentioned it several times). At first, I used Astrophotography Tool (APT). Several viewers suggested I take a look at NINA (I had not heard of it at that time). I switched to NINA because it has automated autofocus (SGP has had that for a long time). APT has that feature now, but not at the time I switched to NINA. I'll stick with NINA. NINA is free and becoming very powerful with many features. In your case, there is absolutely no need to switch to NINA from SGP if you're happy with how things are working. I know how that is: if something works, don't rock the boat. A very sound philosophy. Take care of yourself!

  • @S70IP
    @S70IP 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Is it me or does your link to the shortcut video just sends you back to this video???
    Great tutorial thanks.

    • @Aero19612
      @Aero19612  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      You are quite correct. Thanks for pointing that out, Matt

  • @svenop
    @svenop 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    You know the guy you're watching is good at astro when this is a BIG mistake haha!

    • @Aero19612
      @Aero19612  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Haha. Have made much bigger mistakes: The time I forgot to turn off the lawn sprinkler system...and then wondered why the humidity jumped up at 2:00AM... and the time I ignored the weather radar with a small thunderstorm cell 50 miles away and forecasts said 10% chance of rain. Then found myself chasing the garbage bin down the street with 50 mph winds out front as the telescope was getting soaked in the backyard... Thanks for watching!