I fully agree I think the option to fuck over solas will be the betrayal,I sincerely think solas will not be a villain necessarily unless we mistreat him also I really like solas being a " bg3 emperor" voice in my head.
Solas has always been honest and genuine,when he says if he could drop the veil without loosing lived he means it he is a kind person pushed to a wall forced to make a difficult decision.
@@ImpGooseImagine being a Dark Souls boss! That’s even worse! They just. keep. coming. back! You can win hundreds of times, but they only need to win once!
I find it interesting that Solas says 'I was Solas first, Fen'harel came later'. He was Pride first, the Dread Wolf came later. He did something wrong, and decided he needed to change drastically to make up for it. Yet he still uses the name/title of Solas/Pride when he comes to the Inquisition. As if he knew he had to do bad things again, before he could do better. He was Pride, the twisted form of Wisdom, when he 'aided' the Inquisition. Gave us knowledge, but kept parts from us and twisted words in such a way we would act upon it in the way he wanted us to. He wears these titles like masks, like his true original self is all but lost to himself and he just becomes whomever he thinks is needed. I think he became this way from the moment Mythal requested he take a body and aid her, wearing her Vallaslin at first and then by her side as an equal among the Evanuris. He was needed, but could never do good enough. He isn't true to his own nature, hence the Wolf lurking over him in all his murals, lurking over his smaller form while he performs the tasks he deems necessary, like a Demon waiting to take hold of a distracted mind. He fears his other nature, not realising that he is still in this form because he means well. Once that is chipped away, that last bit of hope.. I fear he'll truly become the Dread Wolf, a massive Pride Demon keen on just tearing it all down instead of working hard to save what he can.
You know what? If he turns into a giant pride demon it would fit into the story of his character arc so beautifully! Though I must say I hope he'll find a way to salvation through love haha
I think we'll have a choice. I think the betrayer will depend on our approval rate with our companions like the end of 2 when you have to choose Templar or mages
@@ImpGoose I think it's going to be that because Solas knows something's wrong with the veil and he's very hesitant to say which is causing people to not trust him. With that said, he said he was relocating the evanuris because their prisons were failing and their prisons are part of the veil if not the whole veil. I think we're going to get a full explanation on what happened and why he's really doing it. I also want to know what precautions he took to minimize the damage. Is he protecting the places where the veil is strongest so they don't burn? Is he willing to let tevinter fall because the veil has been weakened over and over again over there past the point of fixing?
Solas will totally manipulate us. If we're in a distrusting or even hateful relationship with him as Rook, he'll just sneer and give us minimal information to get us moving. But if we're friendly with him he'll act kinder, offer more insight. But always only revealing what he deems necessary for us to do his bidding. He'll guide us down a path we wish we hadn't by the end of the game. And the big question I think that remains is if he'll finally stand up and do what is right at the end, or sacrifice us to get free and continue with his atemps at 'saving' his People.
I think it would be interesting if you are an Elf he gives you the opportunity to join him by stabbing your squad in the back or something or betray your squad and Solas. I’d like to see twists like this so you can have a ‘evil’ play through (like in Mass Effect)
I agree! That's what DA games really miss out on, you know. The most evil thing you could do in DAI Trespasser is to punch Solas in the face. I hope the Veilguard will have some tricks up its sleeve
Regarding Corytheus, Solas tells us that he expected the orb to kill Corytheus when he unlocked it. So, to me that sounds as if he saw it as a convenient to birds with one stone solution. The orb gets unlocked and he takes out the former high priest of Dumat in the process.
I disagree with most of your points, but they were interesting, and it did come across as even tho you reached different conclusions. Then i did you put a lot of thought into this so good video 👍
Thanks! Food for thought is more important than 100% approval 😉 What are your arguments and ideas regarding Solas and why do you think that his character arc will develop differently?
Honestly, I think it would be more interesting to rediscover a Solas who remains unwavering in his goal of "shaping" the world in the face of ancient elven society than for there to be some kind of redemption or subsequent discussion regarding the method. Maybe some other dramatic outcome could spice things up, but I think it's cool to see a villain remain certain of his journey. I'd rather see a Solas who remains right than what he needs to do - regardless of the consequences - for a "good cause" from his perspective. I believe that this way the character is more faithful to his own motivations and this feeds the gravity of the plot in the context of urgency and fatality. Even the fact that he appears to be eventually "blind" in his personal crusade still serves as a marker of his conviction. This does not prevent the player from feeling some kind of empathy and understanding for Solas, but this does not outweigh the price of inaction or cooperation in the face of what is at stake.
I wanna know more about the forgotten ones. Like where do they come into this, where is the other Evanuris. Were the forgotten ones true gods and the good ones unlike the Evanuris. So many questions unanswered. It also makes me think solas is far gone, he’s so delusional and become corrupted he has strayed from his original plan. Anyways I love your theories their well put and so detailed compared to other videos I’ve seen as basically the answers I’ve been seeking.
Thank you so much! I have a theory about the Forgotten Ones, though it's opposes the popular idea that the Evanuris are the Old Gods and the Forgotten Ones at the same time. Idk I believe in logic in narrative design more than potential magical solution, soooo.. stay tuned! I'll make a video about all gods eventually hahaha
I think you're wrong. Solas wants to mend his wrongs but his careful planning and manouvering over ten years seems to indicate that he isn't willing to do it at any cost. And while he might not have been willing to kill the Evanuris originally, he says that he's deal with them in either Trespasser or Tevinter Nights. There's also an interesting hint in Dalish customs. Then Dalish put Fen Harel statues around their campsites facing outwards. This is said to be done in order to remind the Dalish to be watchful of spirits and demons. However, the placement rather indicates that the statues were originally meant to protect the camp. After all, the fluffy butt of a wolf is a lot less dreadful then the toothy end.
I do hope there is some type of random betrayals or guys switch sides some back stabbing would be more real then just members sleeping around with each other.
If a companion betrays us under particular circumstances like Iron Bull in DAI, it will be really cool. I couldn't believe my eyes when it first happened during my playthrough!
not saying that it wont happen, but did they not say that you NEED all companions for the story? even going so far that they can leave the party but return later on. it could still happen in the end game i guess
Hoping the last quarter of the games story changes depending on how you dealt with solas throughout the game. Either he betrays you, you convince him or maybe even just out rightly going along with his plan. But these options all depend on rooks relationship with solas. Cannot wait to finally play only been…. A decade
I've been saying for almost the full decade now that Solas' intentions are based in his memories of a world with a higher form of existence, where beings could live without great risk of dying or the inevitability of dying from old age. So to Solas, the current world is already decayed and full of death. Beings are cut off from experiencing the fullness of life, and they are fated to die no matter what. So of course Solas wants to change all that by restoring the world that was. It sounds like Rook might be able to eventually come to understand that. But who knows what BioWare will do with the story now. So many of their decisions recently are incredibly stupid. Will Rook be able to side with Solas? Stop him no matter what? Convince him to stand down? Find a better way? I have my doubts that BioWare will be able to pull this off. For one thing, Rook doesn't seem all that connected to this world to begin with, and it seems BioWare has no intention of showing how horrible and depraved Thedas' underbelly really is. So then why would any player want to choose to destroy the world in favor of Solas' world? Doesn't seem like this game will get too deep philosophically.
"Memories of a world with a higher form of existence," is an argument for shifting Solas' motivation from grief and guilt towards nostalgia and egocentrism that "he knows better." Is that what you've been trying to say for a decade? I'm sorry I don't understand your point regarding Solas' character arc and his development
@@ImpGoose Yeah ever since Trespasser where Solas reveals he wants to tear down the veil and destroy the real world so his world can return, I've been telling people what his motivation is. He comes from a world where beings are essentially immortal and do not age. He sees that as the norm. The real world on the other hand has beings dying all the time from various things, and even those who survive the hardships of the world still die of old age. So Solas figures these people are going to die eventually anyway, so why not just end them now and restore a world of long lifespans and youth? This is why Solas says in the gameplay demo, "People are always dying. That is what they do." He figures the people dying right now while the veil is falling are just going to die of old age within 90 years or so anyway. But most fans just think, "Ooh Solas kill people = oooohhh bad, must stop him". This is why Varric's pleas are so nonsensical to Solas, and it's why the Inquisitor was needed in this instance to confront Solas and convince him of a better way.
That's an interesting theory indeed! Thanks for sharing it. We shall see what happens in the game eventually because honestly...Solas is a cool character. I hope there will be options to destroy the world and save it
Hopefully you can kill Solas and stop his dumb plan. Solas going full "Make Thedas Great Again" ... When everyone was like a slave to the Old Gods and shit. Nah, I'm good, thanks.
Pffft... none of this matters. Where is Forgotten Ones? Now it is obvious that Archdemons and Evanuris are interconnected things. But the legend says that underground there is a second pantheon of Elven Gods. Contradiction. Did Solas really not lock up the forgotten ones? Or is it true and Forgotten Ones and Forbidden Ones are the same. I wanna see this badass guys.
I feel your frustration. Believe me when I was losing myself in DA lore, I made freaking maps to connect the dots. So, here's a super brief summary. - 1st pantheon of elven gods is The Forgotten Ones aka the Old Gods. We know the names of only 3 of them, but there were many according to the lore. They live in the abyss/ void which is close to the concept of hell. They become archdemons when the darkspawn find them. - 2nd pantheon of the elven gods is the Evanuris aka the Creators. They were not actually gods but kinda immortal powerful mages. They lived in the Fade in the heavens. Sometimes the Evanuris helped the People (normal elves) while the Forgotten Ones used/ abused/ hunted them. The Forbidden Ones are not gods, but 4 demons who allegedly taught Tevinters how to use blood magic. We have already met 3 of them throughout DA games. One demon for a game: Gaxkang, Xebenkeck and Imshael. I believe we will meet the 4th demon (The Formless One) in the Veilguard. So, there's no contradiction really. Hope it helps!
@@ImpGoose Now I will explain my position. 1) Remember the secret of Corypheus’ immortality. He placed part of his soul into the dragon. 2) We have 7 dragons/archdemons/old gods and 7 evanuris. We combine points 1 and 2. Conclusion. Archdemons/old gods/dragons are simply receptacles for the souls of the Evanuris and the secret of their immortality. 3) But the Dalish legend says that the Forgotten Ones are imprisoned underground. This is a mistake if my theory is correct. In that case, we don't know where the Forgotten Ones are now, but they are free in one form or another. 4) The theory of astrariums. But how many gods were there in the two pantheons? 9 Evanuris. (7 captives, Solas and Mythal). How many were forgotten ones? We have 18 constellations. 9 constellations are the Evanuris, 9 constellations are the Forgotten. We know the names of 3 Forgotten and 5 Forbidden = 8. But where is the other one? This is just a small part of my theory.
From a meta perspective, I don't think it'll be our choice to merge the Fade or keep them separate, if so how would another game/entry be made where some people's world states would differ SO DRASTICALLY. It could only be done if its a final game (which I don't think so yet, there's still so much story to tell outside of this storyline). Overall, I think that Solas will fail, to keep the world state more grounded for future entries.
@@ImpGoose well she's an elf and veil jumpers are fascinated with everything that has to do with the fade. she might be easy to trick. we are told someone will betray us. everyone thinks its the crow. but it would be to easy if it was him
@@lisdraconis2212Morrigan didn't betray us she told the truth about the ritual, thanks to her the warden and Alistair survived. Plus Solas didn't "betray" the inquisitor he just didn't told her/him everything. It's a difference PLUS Fakewall is the real betrayer in DAI.
@@GreyWardenArlethaVakarian I disagree, morrigan knew all this time what the plan was. She knew a warden must die and did not tell a thing. She knew secrets about the grey wardens which would be good to know. Solas betrayed the Inquisition as well. He had spies in the Inquisition and did not say the truth about the Orb and left without a word. Just because they chose not to harm you does not mean their actions aore not betrayl.
Oh we are going back on the Kotor2 darth Traya route, all over again i'm in ! It won't end well, few possible out comes : 1)Rook is linked to Solas i'm gonna bet there is a quick and painful way to end Solas' madness. 2)Break Solas and defeat his core belives in every way shape or form to the point he gives up because he's just an empty shell. 3) Rook Becomes the dreadwolf...
im calling it now this Story is basically what the chantry tells us what ha what happend with the old god and the tiventor magisters. Solas and (Old) God speaks to Rook Teaching him... (blodomagic was used accidently to trap solas) teach blood magic. Enters the black system or prison in this came to fry to free solas causeing a fallsafe and blights rook and solas turning solas in to the 6th arch demon and Rook in to a New type of Darkspawn.
i think we'll have to choose between agreeing with Neve and with Solas, so maybe we'll be betraying one of them? Seperate thought, I wonder if since he's in his head he'll be able to possess us in some manner, ya know cause he's basically a spirit. i think somewhere they mentioned that returning bad guy gods are blighted. so, were all the evanuris already blighted before the veil, or did the veil create the blight on the spirit side, like it created death on the physical side?
Solas' name is pride correct? Now stick with me here but what if Solas' pride is causing him to either misremember the history or causing him to brush away his own dark part in their story, what if solas was just as bad as the others and only turned on them once he was directly hit by the consequences of his own actions (perhaps a lover or close friend called him out on his BS and he killed them in anger only to realize how bad he had gotten afterwords) maybe the evanurus paid a price to become as powerful as they were and that price led them to become the raging assholes and corrupted monsters they now are
'the outcasts who are shunned by society often seek the warmth of love and acceptance by resorting to destruction. however, this warmth is an illusion, as their hearts remain cold.' the story of solas. queen has returned with an amazing video.
8:33 Can someone please explain where did we find out that the magisters and the old gods were in war with the Evanuris? I didn't follow much in the last few years and that information made me crazy, but i simply can't seem to find it.
Not the magisters but their gods (The Forgotten Ones) were at war with the Evanuris. It's only logical to assume that the high priests would follow where their gods went. You can find it in Trespasser DLC, codex pages and other in-game content. Some of those pages and dialogues are in my latest video about Elgar'nan. Hope this helps!
@@ImpGoose I mean when it was confirmed that the same Old Gods from Tevinter are the Gods that the Evanuris fought? I think i didn't get that part but i thought that it was another pantheon..
Ah, I see. You are asking how the Old gods and the Forgotten Ones are the same thing. There is a theory that I believe to be true. Most lore is nothing but theories anyway. Few possess direct explanations. I'm happy to debate this theory though :) The most obvious part: the imprisonment. The Forgotten Ones were trapped by Solas (creator of the veil). The Old gods caged by the Maker (creator of the veil). The location of their prison is the same. The Forgotten Ones are in the the abyss. The Old Gods are in the Deep Roads, tainted by the blight. There's dragon "divine shape" in elven mythology + Mythal skill. Red lyrium is blighted lyrium. So it's connected to darkspawn/ Archdemons and we saw murals in the Temple of Mythal and DA4 poster that showed red lyrium. There are more threads, but these coincidences are the first that came to my mind. Are they good enough as a confirmation for you? 😅
Solas is Thanos level evil. He appears willing to kill thousands to create what he alone decides is the proper way the world should be. Why is Solas on his own? At the end of Trespasser he had a huge network of elves? Did they all die? If so who killed them? Or did they abandon him without helping to stop him? The way rook joins Varic and Harding as some pointless random who was good in a bar fight is suspicious. I'm hoping there is in-game back story on how some nobody magically happens to find the only two people in the world other than Neve that know how to find the god that at the very moment appears to be conducting a ritual that will destroy the world. The limited info so far makes rook's part in this seem suspicious or just dumb. I'm pretty sure the game will hopefully make more sense. Why are Varic and Harding the only 2 people in a world trying to stop the worlds destruction? Did Varic and Harding hide that they had located Solas finally at the last minute after 10 years since Trespasser? It's nice we have companions as that is one of the things that make Bioware games great. However, why weren't these groups helping Varic and Harding when a god appeared to be actively destroying the world? I don't think rook can really trust any group other than their origin group and maybe Neve's group. You can't even trust the inquisition (or former inquisition) as they appear criminally absent when the world was about to be destroyed. So far the heroes of the last games appear as big of losers as the demon loving absent greyspawn were in the last game. If rook and Solas do eventually have the option to destroy the world to bring the new Solas world ... I mean the world didn't really seem to care the first time so ...
From what little has been revealed its said that Varric first approaches Rook to find Neve who can find Solas and Harding is met on the way to find Solas my guess is that Harding was sent by the inquisition after varric sends a coded message to the Inquisitor and Harding is sent to scout the area but she joins up with Varric and Co. After its found that they don't have time
@@wintertrooper7918 If the rook character was the contact in Tevinter to find Neve who had a lead on actually finding Solas that would actually make sense for rook joining and helping Varic and Harding. The horrible reveal trailer just made it look like they were just some dumbass that Harding and Varic thought was good in a bar fight so they should stop a god that was ready to destroy the world because stopping a god is like a bar fight? In the gameplay trailer the first thing rook says is, "I hope Neve is as good at finding people as you claim." Sounds like Neve was supposed to meet Varic at the bar. Rook doesn't know Neve when they meet. It's likely Bioware actually (hopefully) wrote a realistic rationale for rook joining Varic, Harding, and Neve in being the only people in Thedas trying to stop the god in the process of destroying the world. The reveal trailer just made it seem dumb. Likely the actual game will be much better. It feels like a rushed "Hail Andraste" last ditch attempt to stop Solas. I wish the gameplay trailer showed Varic being his usual sarcastic self about the absolute failure after 10 years to have the assets needed to attempt to stop a god as they thought the world as they knew was about to be destroyed. A couple of digs at the Inquisitor, Casandra, Leliana, and Cullen for being absent would have been awesome.
@lukeorloki my whole thought is that they aren't the only ones trying to stop Solas but rather the 4 of them or whatever are just the first ones to actually find Solas and the other groups are doing their thing like the inquisition doesn't have the same political and cultural power they did in Inquisition (whether because they officially disbanded or they are tied to the chantry) so it isn't easy for the whole lot if them to get in to tevinter as it would be for one or two people to go on ahead and make some progress tracking Solas down with the other factions being more or less unaware of Solas plots till after we get trapped in the fade
@@wintertrooper7918 I agree. The game will likely explain why Varic and Harding seem on their own against a god. It would have been nice to see Varic in the gameplay trailer comment sarcastically on the less than ideal situation. Until we get to play the actual game it will just seem really odd. I wish we could get full origin stories like DAO for rook to explain the backstory on how rook finds Varic and is the only one other than Harding and Neve able to try and stop Solas and the end of the world. I'm sure it will be fine and not as dumb as the reveal trailer made it look.
Thank you so much for recognising the hard work! Glad you enjoyed the videos, and I totally agree with you. Solas is too cunning to oppose elf-Rook bluntly. My first playthrough has always been a female elf mage in DA games. It will be a really tough one in DAV haha
@@ImpGoose I will be playing a dwarf, my favourite race and for me the biggest and most important mystery in Dragon Age. Will we find out out more about the Titans? I certainly hope so.
Loved the video ! It will be interresting to see how we, has the player, will have an effect on this process. Like, will we loose relationship points with him by being too paranoid and distrustful, or will we try to befriend him to avoid the betrayal? Fascinating indeed :o
I like Varic and Harding but there is definitely something wrong with the world if the only plan to stop the destruction of the world was to send just Varic to talk with an elven god intent on the world's destruction to form a new world. Did Solas stop the Inquisitor and the heroes of the Inquisition and all the allies assembled over 10 years to stop the worlds destruction? Or did Varic and Harding hide that they had found Solas finally after 10 years since the end of Tresspasser? Varic and Harding in what we have seen of the start of DAV so far don't make sense.
I have Executed Loghain Mac Tir for his crimes in Dragon Age 1. I executed Anders for his crimes in Dragon Age 2. And I will execute Solas for his crimes in Dragon Age 3 & 4.
I disagree, Solas isn't a bad person plus Thedas wouldn't exist the way it does if he hadn't split the world in two. He's NOT a villain, he never was. A true villain is power hungry aiming to reach his/her goals for his/her own benefits. Solas uses his power to bring back what once were/what was lost, sacrificing all he is, even if his greatest fear might come true. He's hunted by his "mistakes" living in the past clinging to a tiny straw of hope. Blinded by the idea of a better world without death and destruction.. Maybe the years has poisoned his memory, maybe the world he knew isn't the world he remembers. PLUS you might need guards to protect the veil from these two old gods you saw in the end of the 20 minute "gameplay"
I appreciate your passion yet your logic fails along with manners. I've read all your comments in the other threads too and...you seem triggered. I hope writing those comments helped you feel better and lighter. Codex pages give us some context. Whether pages are true or not we are talking about NARRATIVE proofs and character arcs. They are based on actions and traits of a character. The player's pov is always set to a Hero archetype. If we switch pov and make Solas a Hero, then yes, we will be on his side because it's his story. Your confusion is quite aggressive and honestly...do you really think that I don't know that they killed Mythal? 😅 I didn't mention it because it wouldn't change the picture. He is still a liar no matter the reason for it. This is his character trait in the arc (along with manipulative behavior). There's a name for it psychology: machiavellianism. It's a part of the dark triad that forms a personality disorder. I like his character yet I realise his intentions and admire his story of a villain for our Hero's pov. Before you start criticising others, it would be great if you approach a question with curiosity and not aggression. And as you call it "speciesism" would be relevant as an argument if either human or elves were of a different species...like...dogs, for example. Please, educate yourself beyond DA lore starting with literature, writing, psychology and etiquette to enter so many comment threads and attack people with such stubbornness. Take care, mate!
I think u r completely right. They just can't understand. Don't care. No need to prooves. Those who are able to understand have already understood long ago. Rays of goodness to you, buddy.
@GreyWardenArlethaVakarian- I fully agree with everything you said in your comment. For the record, I think your logic was flawless and on point. To hear other say that Solas only cares about Solas is quite surprising given the fact that he could have simply enjoyed all the perks of being a high level mage back in ancient Arlathan and by all means could have simply enslaved elves just like the other Evanuris to make himself be worshipped as a God (which is, I beleive, what an egocentric person would aspire to do if they could) but he didnt. He stood up to the Tyranny and did all he could to stop it. Solas did all he could to save his people albeit his measures were indeed drastic and impulsive, but at least he DID something which is more than most would ever dare to do. Unfortunately his plan backfired and made things worse. Yet, instead of being to proud to admit his mistake he fully owns up to it and now he is committed to rectifying his mistake. If anyone is a hero in this story its him. Many people say that restoring Arlathan would just go back to slavery as if slavery weren't a common theme in the current world state of Thedas... people are being enslaved by the Chantry, they are being enslaved by the Circle Of Magi, they are being enslaved by the Qun, they are being enslaved by Tevinter Magisters, or alienages and so on... etc. etc. My point is, that the only person willing to do something about is Solas, if that isn't selflessness, I don't know what is. This is, of course, just my opinion and point of view. I fully respect and understand the other side of the coin and the points made in this video are more than fair. I very much enjoyed watching it, even if I don't agree with them personally. 😊
In the books, Solas had given hints that the real enemies are coming from another continent and they are very powerful elves and Qunari might be their creation. I have a theory that at the mid stage of the game, players' job would be to defeat Solas and then the invasion will come. At that point, Solas will start helping us to defeat these god like elves who want Thedas.
Rook could be the betrayer, but they could betray both the world and Solas. That would be interesting to see.
What a twist! I'd like to see it too now. Imagine a race of betraying dudes haha
@@ImpGoose Yep, when I got to the last part of your video, that is what I thought up.
I fully agree I think the option to fuck over solas will be the betrayal,I sincerely think solas will not be a villain necessarily unless we mistreat him also I really like solas being a " bg3 emperor" voice in my head.
Solas has always been honest and genuine,when he says if he could drop the veil without loosing lived he means it he is a kind person pushed to a wall forced to make a difficult decision.
@@DavidSantos-ix1hu I haven't got that part of BG. It will be interesting, to say the least.
Its hard being the villain in video games the hero always takes your stuff, and on top of that always finds a way to un do your schemes.
Haha what a hopeless existence! The saddest thing is that the villain must relive it every time we play a new game
@@ImpGooseImagine being a Dark Souls boss! That’s even worse!
They just. keep. coming. back! You can win hundreds of times, but they only need to win once!
I find it interesting that Solas says 'I was Solas first, Fen'harel came later'. He was Pride first, the Dread Wolf came later. He did something wrong, and decided he needed to change drastically to make up for it. Yet he still uses the name/title of Solas/Pride when he comes to the Inquisition. As if he knew he had to do bad things again, before he could do better. He was Pride, the twisted form of Wisdom, when he 'aided' the Inquisition. Gave us knowledge, but kept parts from us and twisted words in such a way we would act upon it in the way he wanted us to. He wears these titles like masks, like his true original self is all but lost to himself and he just becomes whomever he thinks is needed. I think he became this way from the moment Mythal requested he take a body and aid her, wearing her Vallaslin at first and then by her side as an equal among the Evanuris. He was needed, but could never do good enough. He isn't true to his own nature, hence the Wolf lurking over him in all his murals, lurking over his smaller form while he performs the tasks he deems necessary, like a Demon waiting to take hold of a distracted mind. He fears his other nature, not realising that he is still in this form because he means well. Once that is chipped away, that last bit of hope.. I fear he'll truly become the Dread Wolf, a massive Pride Demon keen on just tearing it all down instead of working hard to save what he can.
You know what? If he turns into a giant pride demon it would fit into the story of his character arc so beautifully! Though I must say I hope he'll find a way to salvation through love haha
@@ImpGoose In his personal quest we save a spirit-friend of his from her Pride demon form. So there could be a way to save him from it too!
I think we'll have a choice. I think the betrayer will depend on our approval rate with our companions like the end of 2 when you have to choose Templar or mages
An interesting theory to consider!
@@ImpGoose I think it's going to be that because Solas knows something's wrong with the veil and he's very hesitant to say which is causing people to not trust him. With that said, he said he was relocating the evanuris because their prisons were failing and their prisons are part of the veil if not the whole veil. I think we're going to get a full explanation on what happened and why he's really doing it. I also want to know what precautions he took to minimize the damage. Is he protecting the places where the veil is strongest so they don't burn? Is he willing to let tevinter fall because the veil has been weakened over and over again over there past the point of fixing?
Solas will totally manipulate us. If we're in a distrusting or even hateful relationship with him as Rook, he'll just sneer and give us minimal information to get us moving. But if we're friendly with him he'll act kinder, offer more insight. But always only revealing what he deems necessary for us to do his bidding. He'll guide us down a path we wish we hadn't by the end of the game. And the big question I think that remains is if he'll finally stand up and do what is right at the end, or sacrifice us to get free and continue with his atemps at 'saving' his People.
I think it would be interesting if you are an Elf he gives you the opportunity to join him by stabbing your squad in the back or something or betray your squad and Solas. I’d like to see twists like this so you can have a ‘evil’ play through (like in Mass Effect)
I agree! That's what DA games really miss out on, you know. The most evil thing you could do in DAI Trespasser is to punch Solas in the face. I hope the Veilguard will have some tricks up its sleeve
I like smart ass solas when you talk to him and make cheeky comments he sometimes joins in ,and its always funny 😂😂😂
True! He's a cool character :)
Regarding Corytheus, Solas tells us that he expected the orb to kill Corytheus when he unlocked it. So, to me that sounds as if he saw it as a convenient to birds with one stone solution. The orb gets unlocked and he takes out the former high priest of Dumat in the process.
I disagree with most of your points, but they were interesting, and it did come across as even tho you reached different conclusions. Then i did you put a lot of thought into this so good video 👍
Thanks! Food for thought is more important than 100% approval 😉 What are your arguments and ideas regarding Solas and why do you think that his character arc will develop differently?
I dont see Solas as a real villain. I get what he's doing, and if it were humans in this position he's in. We would absolutely do what he does.
Honestly, I think it would be more interesting to rediscover a Solas who remains unwavering in his goal of "shaping" the world in the face of ancient elven society than for there to be some kind of redemption or subsequent discussion regarding the method. Maybe some other dramatic outcome could spice things up, but I think it's cool to see a villain remain certain of his journey. I'd rather see a Solas who remains right than what he needs to do - regardless of the consequences - for a "good cause" from his perspective.
I believe that this way the character is more faithful to his own motivations and this feeds the gravity of the plot in the context of urgency and fatality. Even the fact that he appears to be eventually "blind" in his personal crusade still serves as a marker of his conviction. This does not prevent the player from feeling some kind of empathy and understanding for Solas, but this does not outweigh the price of inaction or cooperation in the face of what is at stake.
I wanna know more about the forgotten ones. Like where do they come into this, where is the other Evanuris. Were the forgotten ones true gods and the good ones unlike the Evanuris. So many questions unanswered. It also makes me think solas is far gone, he’s so delusional and become corrupted he has strayed from his original plan. Anyways I love your theories their well put and so detailed compared to other videos I’ve seen as basically the answers I’ve been seeking.
Thank you so much! I have a theory about the Forgotten Ones, though it's opposes the popular idea that the Evanuris are the Old Gods and the Forgotten Ones at the same time. Idk I believe in logic in narrative design more than potential magical solution, soooo.. stay tuned! I'll make a video about all gods eventually hahaha
@@ImpGoose Now I am really interested in that video and cannot wait!
I think you're wrong. Solas wants to mend his wrongs but his careful planning and manouvering over ten years seems to indicate that he isn't willing to do it at any cost. And while he might not have been willing to kill the Evanuris originally, he says that he's deal with them in either Trespasser or Tevinter Nights.
There's also an interesting hint in Dalish customs. Then Dalish put Fen Harel statues around their campsites facing outwards. This is said to be done in order to remind the Dalish to be watchful of spirits and demons. However, the placement rather indicates that the statues were originally meant to protect the camp. After all, the fluffy butt of a wolf is a lot less dreadful then the toothy end.
I do hope there is some type of random betrayals or guys switch sides some back stabbing would be more real then just members sleeping around with each other.
If a companion betrays us under particular circumstances like Iron Bull in DAI, it will be really cool. I couldn't believe my eyes when it first happened during my playthrough!
not saying that it wont happen, but did they not say that you NEED all companions for the story? even going so far that they can leave the party but return later on. it could still happen in the end game i guess
When will he learn😢 my heart is breaking
Idk 😭 I wish I was wrong but studying literature and creative writing tells me that there's no hope for him. We need a miracle!
Hoping the last quarter of the games story changes depending on how you dealt with solas throughout the game. Either he betrays you, you convince him or maybe even just out rightly going along with his plan. But these options all depend on rooks relationship with solas. Cannot wait to finally play only been…. A decade
I've been saying for almost the full decade now that Solas' intentions are based in his memories of a world with a higher form of existence, where beings could live without great risk of dying or the inevitability of dying from old age. So to Solas, the current world is already decayed and full of death. Beings are cut off from experiencing the fullness of life, and they are fated to die no matter what. So of course Solas wants to change all that by restoring the world that was. It sounds like Rook might be able to eventually come to understand that. But who knows what BioWare will do with the story now. So many of their decisions recently are incredibly stupid. Will Rook be able to side with Solas? Stop him no matter what? Convince him to stand down? Find a better way? I have my doubts that BioWare will be able to pull this off. For one thing, Rook doesn't seem all that connected to this world to begin with, and it seems BioWare has no intention of showing how horrible and depraved Thedas' underbelly really is. So then why would any player want to choose to destroy the world in favor of Solas' world? Doesn't seem like this game will get too deep philosophically.
"Memories of a world with a higher form of existence," is an argument for shifting Solas' motivation from grief and guilt towards nostalgia and egocentrism that "he knows better."
Is that what you've been trying to say for a decade? I'm sorry I don't understand your point regarding Solas' character arc and his development
@@ImpGoose Yeah ever since Trespasser where Solas reveals he wants to tear down the veil and destroy the real world so his world can return, I've been telling people what his motivation is. He comes from a world where beings are essentially immortal and do not age. He sees that as the norm. The real world on the other hand has beings dying all the time from various things, and even those who survive the hardships of the world still die of old age. So Solas figures these people are going to die eventually anyway, so why not just end them now and restore a world of long lifespans and youth?
This is why Solas says in the gameplay demo, "People are always dying. That is what they do." He figures the people dying right now while the veil is falling are just going to die of old age within 90 years or so anyway. But most fans just think, "Ooh Solas kill people = oooohhh bad, must stop him".
This is why Varric's pleas are so nonsensical to Solas, and it's why the Inquisitor was needed in this instance to confront Solas and convince him of a better way.
That's an interesting theory indeed! Thanks for sharing it. We shall see what happens in the game eventually because honestly...Solas is a cool character. I hope there will be options to destroy the world and save it
Hopefully you can kill Solas and stop his dumb plan. Solas going full "Make Thedas Great Again" ... When everyone was like a slave to the Old Gods and shit. Nah, I'm good, thanks.
Pffft... none of this matters. Where is Forgotten Ones? Now it is obvious that Archdemons and Evanuris are interconnected things. But the legend says that underground there is a second pantheon of Elven Gods. Contradiction. Did Solas really not lock up the forgotten ones? Or is it true and Forgotten Ones and Forbidden Ones are the same. I wanna see this badass guys.
I feel your frustration. Believe me when I was losing myself in DA lore, I made freaking maps to connect the dots. So, here's a super brief summary.
- 1st pantheon of elven gods is The Forgotten Ones aka the Old Gods. We know the names of only 3 of them, but there were many according to the lore. They live in the abyss/ void which is close to the concept of hell. They become archdemons when the darkspawn find them.
- 2nd pantheon of the elven gods is the Evanuris aka the Creators. They were not actually gods but kinda immortal powerful mages. They lived in the Fade in the heavens.
Sometimes the Evanuris helped the People (normal elves) while the Forgotten Ones used/ abused/ hunted them.
The Forbidden Ones are not gods, but 4 demons who allegedly taught Tevinters how to use blood magic. We have already met 3 of them throughout DA games. One demon for a game:
Gaxkang, Xebenkeck and Imshael. I believe we will meet the 4th demon (The Formless One) in the Veilguard.
So, there's no contradiction really. Hope it helps!
@@ImpGoose Now I will explain my position. 1) Remember the secret of Corypheus’ immortality. He placed part of his soul into the dragon. 2) We have 7 dragons/archdemons/old gods and 7 evanuris. We combine points 1 and 2. Conclusion. Archdemons/old gods/dragons are simply receptacles for the souls of the Evanuris and the secret of their immortality. 3) But the Dalish legend says that the Forgotten Ones are imprisoned underground. This is a mistake if my theory is correct. In that case, we don't know where the Forgotten Ones are now, but they are free in one form or another. 4) The theory of astrariums. But how many gods were there in the two pantheons? 9 Evanuris. (7 captives, Solas and Mythal). How many were forgotten ones? We have 18 constellations. 9 constellations are the Evanuris, 9 constellations are the Forgotten. We know the names of 3 Forgotten and 5 Forbidden = 8. But where is the other one? This is just a small part of my theory.
I think the Forbidden Ones were ancient elves who cast aside their physical forms and then became demons.
From a meta perspective, I don't think it'll be our choice to merge the Fade or keep them separate, if so how would another game/entry be made where some people's world states would differ SO DRASTICALLY. It could only be done if its a final game (which I don't think so yet, there's still so much story to tell outside of this storyline). Overall, I think that Solas will fail, to keep the world state more grounded for future entries.
its very possible the veil jumper mage betrays us
Ooooh...why do you think so? 👀
@@ImpGoose well she's an elf and veil jumpers are fascinated with everything that has to do with the fade. she might be easy to trick. we are told someone will betray us. everyone thinks its the crow. but it would be to easy if it was him
@@davids2cents594Honestly the pattern is more against Bellara than Lucanis.
Morrigan, Anders, Solas... all mages...
@@lisdraconis2212Morrigan didn't betray us she told the truth about the ritual, thanks to her the warden and Alistair survived.
Plus Solas didn't "betray" the inquisitor he just didn't told her/him everything.
It's a difference PLUS Fakewall is the real betrayer in DAI.
@@GreyWardenArlethaVakarian I disagree, morrigan knew all this time what the plan was. She knew a warden must die and did not tell a thing. She knew secrets about the grey wardens which would be good to know.
Solas betrayed the Inquisition as well. He had spies in the Inquisition and did not say the truth about the Orb and left without a word.
Just because they chose not to harm you does not mean their actions aore not betrayl.
Oh we are going back on the Kotor2 darth Traya route, all over again i'm in !
It won't end well, few possible out comes :
1)Rook is linked to Solas i'm gonna bet there is a quick and painful way to end Solas' madness.
2)Break Solas and defeat his core belives in every way shape or form to the point he gives up because he's just an empty shell.
3) Rook Becomes the dreadwolf...
Had to stop watching after 2 minutes. Didn't expect such spoilers from other games 😭 No spoiler warnings for those. 😭
im calling it now this Story is basically what the chantry tells us what ha what happend with the old god and the tiventor magisters.
Solas and (Old) God speaks to Rook Teaching him... (blodomagic was used accidently to trap solas) teach blood magic. Enters the black system or prison in this came to fry to free solas causeing a fallsafe and blights rook and solas turning solas in to the 6th arch demon and Rook in to a New type of Darkspawn.
i think we'll have to choose between agreeing with Neve and with Solas, so maybe we'll be betraying one of them? Seperate thought, I wonder if since he's in his head he'll be able to possess us in some manner, ya know cause he's basically a spirit. i think somewhere they mentioned that returning bad guy gods are blighted. so, were all the evanuris already blighted before the veil, or did the veil create the blight on the spirit side, like it created death on the physical side?
Solas' name is pride correct? Now stick with me here but what if Solas' pride is causing him to either misremember the history or causing him to brush away his own dark part in their story, what if solas was just as bad as the others and only turned on them once he was directly hit by the consequences of his own actions (perhaps a lover or close friend called him out on his BS and he killed them in anger only to realize how bad he had gotten afterwords) maybe the evanurus paid a price to become as powerful as they were and that price led them to become the raging assholes and corrupted monsters they now are
I don't like when they force me to work with someone I don't trust. Didn't like it in Mass Effect 2, and I don't think I'll like it now.
Solas from Dragon Age reminds me of Jon Irenicus from Baldur's Gate 2
I think he won’t betray us this time but I think he will awaken as the 6th blight and the 6th old god
Fate is Inexorable, Solas will betray us again.
Interesting to see someone on TH-cam more Solas-critical. Enjoyed your video!
Glad you liked it and welcome to the channel!
'the outcasts who are shunned by society often seek the warmth of love and acceptance by resorting to destruction. however, this warmth is an illusion, as their hearts remain cold.' the story of solas.
queen has returned with an amazing video.
It's sad yet often truthful! A great quote indeed
8:33 Can someone please explain where did we find out that the magisters and the old gods were in war with the Evanuris? I didn't follow much in the last few years and that information made me crazy, but i simply can't seem to find it.
Not the magisters but their gods (The Forgotten Ones) were at war with the Evanuris. It's only logical to assume that the high priests would follow where their gods went. You can find it in Trespasser DLC, codex pages and other in-game content. Some of those pages and dialogues are in my latest video about Elgar'nan. Hope this helps!
@@ImpGoose I mean when it was confirmed that the same Old Gods from Tevinter are the Gods that the Evanuris fought? I think i didn't get that part but i thought that it was another pantheon..
Ah, I see. You are asking how the Old gods and the Forgotten Ones are the same thing. There is a theory that I believe to be true. Most lore is nothing but theories anyway. Few possess direct explanations. I'm happy to debate this theory though :)
The most obvious part: the imprisonment. The Forgotten Ones were trapped by Solas (creator of the veil). The Old gods caged by the Maker (creator of the veil).
The location of their prison is the same. The Forgotten Ones are in the the abyss. The Old Gods are in the Deep Roads, tainted by the blight.
There's dragon "divine shape" in elven mythology + Mythal skill.
Red lyrium is blighted lyrium. So it's connected to darkspawn/ Archdemons and we saw murals in the Temple of Mythal and DA4 poster that showed red lyrium.
There are more threads, but these coincidences are the first that came to my mind. Are they good enough as a confirmation for you? 😅
I think it's an interesting idea that Rook could betray. Perhaps he's manipulated by Solas?
something you touched upon i haven't heard before- Needed the blight to unlock the orb- the calculations are endless if this is true.
Solas is Thanos level evil. He appears willing to kill thousands to create what he alone decides is the proper way the world should be.
Why is Solas on his own? At the end of Trespasser he had a huge network of elves? Did they all die? If so who killed them? Or did they abandon him without helping to stop him?
The way rook joins Varic and Harding as some pointless random who was good in a bar fight is suspicious. I'm hoping there is in-game back story on how some nobody magically happens to find the only two people in the world other than Neve that know how to find the god that at the very moment appears to be conducting a ritual that will destroy the world. The limited info so far makes rook's part in this seem suspicious or just dumb. I'm pretty sure the game will hopefully make more sense.
Why are Varic and Harding the only 2 people in a world trying to stop the worlds destruction? Did Varic and Harding hide that they had located Solas finally at the last minute after 10 years since Trespasser?
It's nice we have companions as that is one of the things that make Bioware games great. However, why weren't these groups helping Varic and Harding when a god appeared to be actively destroying the world?
I don't think rook can really trust any group other than their origin group and maybe Neve's group. You can't even trust the inquisition (or former inquisition) as they appear criminally absent when the world was about to be destroyed. So far the heroes of the last games appear as big of losers as the demon loving absent greyspawn were in the last game.
If rook and Solas do eventually have the option to destroy the world to bring the new Solas world ... I mean the world didn't really seem to care the first time so ...
From what little has been revealed its said that Varric first approaches Rook to find Neve who can find Solas and Harding is met on the way to find Solas my guess is that Harding was sent by the inquisition after varric sends a coded message to the Inquisitor and Harding is sent to scout the area but she joins up with Varric and Co. After its found that they don't have time
@@wintertrooper7918 If the rook character was the contact in Tevinter to find Neve who had a lead on actually finding Solas that would actually make sense for rook joining and helping Varic and Harding. The horrible reveal trailer just made it look like they were just some dumbass that Harding and Varic thought was good in a bar fight so they should stop a god that was ready to destroy the world because stopping a god is like a bar fight?
In the gameplay trailer the first thing rook says is, "I hope Neve is as good at finding people as you claim." Sounds like Neve was supposed to meet Varic at the bar. Rook doesn't know Neve when they meet.
It's likely Bioware actually (hopefully) wrote a realistic rationale for rook joining Varic, Harding, and Neve in being the only people in Thedas trying to stop the god in the process of destroying the world. The reveal trailer just made it seem dumb. Likely the actual game will be much better.
It feels like a rushed "Hail Andraste" last ditch attempt to stop Solas. I wish the gameplay trailer showed Varic being his usual sarcastic self about the absolute failure after 10 years to have the assets needed to attempt to stop a god as they thought the world as they knew was about to be destroyed. A couple of digs at the Inquisitor, Casandra, Leliana, and Cullen for being absent would have been awesome.
@lukeorloki my whole thought is that they aren't the only ones trying to stop Solas but rather the 4 of them or whatever are just the first ones to actually find Solas and the other groups are doing their thing like the inquisition doesn't have the same political and cultural power they did in Inquisition (whether because they officially disbanded or they are tied to the chantry) so it isn't easy for the whole lot if them to get in to tevinter as it would be for one or two people to go on ahead and make some progress tracking Solas down with the other factions being more or less unaware of Solas plots till after we get trapped in the fade
@@wintertrooper7918 I agree. The game will likely explain why Varic and Harding seem on their own against a god. It would have been nice to see Varic in the gameplay trailer comment sarcastically on the less than ideal situation. Until we get to play the actual game it will just seem really odd.
I wish we could get full origin stories like DAO for rook to explain the backstory on how rook finds Varic and is the only one other than Harding and Neve able to try and stop Solas and the end of the world. I'm sure it will be fine and not as dumb as the reveal trailer made it look.
Your lore videos are amazing! I think Solas will try to manipulate Rook towards his goals, especially if Rook is an elf.
Thank you so much for recognising the hard work! Glad you enjoyed the videos, and I totally agree with you. Solas is too cunning to oppose elf-Rook bluntly. My first playthrough has always been a female elf mage in DA games. It will be a really tough one in DAV haha
@@ImpGoose I will be playing a dwarf, my favourite race and for me the biggest and most important mystery in Dragon Age. Will we find out out more about the Titans? I certainly hope so.
The maker works in mysterious ways from his veiled prison.
Loved the video ! It will be interresting to see how we, has the player, will have an effect on this process. Like, will we loose relationship points with him by being too paranoid and distrustful, or will we try to befriend him to avoid the betrayal? Fascinating indeed :o
Can't wait to discover!
...I think Varric's lived long enough to become a villain...
I like Varic and Harding but there is definitely something wrong with the world if the only plan to stop the destruction of the world was to send just Varic to talk with an elven god intent on the world's destruction to form a new world.
Did Solas stop the Inquisitor and the heroes of the Inquisition and all the allies assembled over 10 years to stop the worlds destruction?
Or did Varic and Harding hide that they had found Solas finally after 10 years since the end of Tresspasser?
Varic and Harding in what we have seen of the start of DAV so far don't make sense.
I have Executed Loghain Mac Tir for his crimes in Dragon Age 1. I executed Anders for his crimes in Dragon Age 2. And I will execute Solas for his crimes in Dragon Age 3 & 4.
I disagree, Solas isn't a bad person plus Thedas wouldn't exist the way it does if he hadn't split the world in two.
He's NOT a villain, he never was.
A true villain is power hungry aiming to reach his/her goals for his/her own benefits.
Solas uses his power to bring back what once were/what was lost, sacrificing all he is, even if his greatest fear might come true.
He's hunted by his "mistakes" living in the past clinging to a tiny straw of hope.
Blinded by the idea of a better world without death and destruction..
Maybe the years has poisoned his memory, maybe the world he knew isn't the world he remembers.
PLUS you might need guards to protect the veil from these two old gods you saw in the end of the 20 minute "gameplay"
I appreciate your passion yet your logic fails along with manners. I've read all your comments in the other threads too and...you seem triggered. I hope writing those comments helped you feel better and lighter.
Codex pages give us some context. Whether pages are true or not we are talking about NARRATIVE proofs and character arcs. They are based on actions and traits of a character. The player's pov is always set to a Hero archetype. If we switch pov and make Solas a Hero, then yes, we will be on his side because it's his story.
Your confusion is quite aggressive and honestly...do you really think that I don't know that they killed Mythal? 😅 I didn't mention it because it wouldn't change the picture.
He is still a liar no matter the reason for it. This is his character trait in the arc (along with manipulative behavior). There's a name for it psychology: machiavellianism. It's a part of the dark triad that forms a personality disorder. I like his character yet I realise his intentions and admire his story of a villain for our Hero's pov.
Before you start criticising others, it would be great if you approach a question with curiosity and not aggression. And as you call it "speciesism" would be relevant as an argument if either human or elves were of a different species...like...dogs, for example.
Please, educate yourself beyond DA lore starting with literature, writing, psychology and etiquette to enter so many comment threads and attack people with such stubbornness. Take care, mate!
I think u r completely right. They just can't understand. Don't care. No need to prooves. Those who are able to understand have already understood long ago. Rays of goodness to you, buddy.
@GreyWardenArlethaVakarian- I fully agree with everything you said in your comment. For the record, I think your logic was flawless and on point. To hear other say that Solas only cares about Solas is quite surprising given the fact that he could have simply enjoyed all the perks of being a high level mage back in ancient Arlathan and by all means could have simply enslaved elves just like the other Evanuris to make himself be worshipped as a God (which is, I beleive, what an egocentric person would aspire to do if they could) but he didnt. He stood up to the Tyranny and did all he could to stop it. Solas did all he could to save his people albeit his measures were indeed drastic and impulsive, but at least he DID something which is more than most would ever dare to do. Unfortunately his plan backfired and made things worse. Yet, instead of being to proud to admit his mistake he fully owns up to it and now he is committed to rectifying his mistake. If anyone is a hero in this story its him. Many people say that restoring Arlathan would just go back to slavery as if slavery weren't a common theme in the current world state of Thedas... people are being enslaved by the Chantry, they are being enslaved by the Circle Of Magi, they are being enslaved by the Qun, they are being enslaved by Tevinter Magisters, or alienages and so on... etc. etc. My point is, that the only person willing to do something about is Solas, if that isn't selflessness, I don't know what is. This is, of course, just my opinion and point of view. I fully respect and understand the other side of the coin and the points made in this video are more than fair. I very much enjoyed watching it, even if I don't agree with them personally. 😊
This video gave me chills
I'm sorry 😅
great vid goose
Honk! :)
In the books, Solas had given hints that the real enemies are coming from another continent and they are very powerful elves and Qunari might be their creation. I have a theory that at the mid stage of the game, players' job would be to defeat Solas and then the invasion will come. At that point, Solas will start helping us to defeat these god like elves who want Thedas.
Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me 😂10:44