All of the best decks I have drafted in this format have been aggro decks. Of course there were some losses to decks that really got there with domain or walls or just general grindy value. But when aggro is open, you can draft powerful decks that often just run people over. Removal being good is a two edged sword. It can help slower decks stabilize. But when an aggro deck gets ahead, good removal just keeps blowing away the blockers. It also helps that there are several commons that can create multiple bodies.
This is the case for most sets, some form of aggro is almost always great in limited. You don't have to have great card quality if the opponent is dead before they can play bombs. It usually feels like it is less that aggro decks are especially good and more that limited decks are rarely good AGAINST aggro. Though I will say Captain's Call + Heroic Charge just feels good.
I got into drafting mostly because of this channel. This set just seems to click with me, and I'm glad to say I got into the top 10 in mythic ladder a few hours ago. So thank you for the help along the way.
Everyone drafting 5 color pile and here i am drafting boros aggro with 7 wins. Aggro is really good if every opponent is playing tapped lands it seems.
Haven't played DMU enough to judge it accurately, but this sounds a lot like my Kaldheim experience xD Everyone was playing snow duals, and after a few weeks I just forced Boros aggro basically every time and rarely got below 6 wins.
I feel like if I get it going really well 1st pack then it's the best, but if I don't I end up w/ a very "meh" aggro cause everybody is picking all the good cards cause they all 5c lol. Feels like I started doing way better after I stopped trying to force a 2c aggro (and even ended up w/ a crazy good 3c aggro once). This is personal/anecdotal though, ymmv of course.
Regarding the removal: design-wise, it looks like making domain/5 color nonsense it’s own full archetype in this format balances out the inclusion of lots of very good removal at common, because they made the best unconditional removal cost double Black or double White. That, plus other solid commons like Talos Lookout and the signpost legends with double single color pips seems to have let them push domain cards without devolving the format to multicolor good stuff soup. Really impressed with the job they did here.
I did a draft and built blue/white defenders and damn near swept the entire tournament, and the bird chaplain was the key to that. Mainly due to everyone going for red/black/sheoldred.
Referencing @ 8:20 in the video. Why are red white/red blue the decks that should only stay 2 colors? I assumed Red White/Blue White would compliment each other by having alot of creatures n Red Blue would benefit from having access to more instant/sorcery spells with white?
The aggro decks are better if you are more focused with your mana. If you try to go full on 3 colors you will slow down significantly, and be unable to finish off Domain decks. Splashing a third color is always fine, but full on 3 colors is not a good idea.
Old player here (many years without playing), decided to play arena a bit and this format was weird for me, your tips were very helpful! Specially the thing about prioritizing lands to be able to play 3 colors+. Right away I reached 7 wins (1 loss), was sort of black right away, picked a couple of okay reds when black dried out, but prioritizing the lands over "just okay" stuff, it allowed me to play a really bonkers RBW in the end, while also having the blue for some kickers lol (where I feel I'd have ended up w/ only a "meh" rakdos before). Next one 5 wins, 1st pack was mainly black in the first picks, then whatever good cards + lands. Got nothing good on B 2nd packed. Opened a Rith on 3rd, had the lands + a couple of on color good cards, jumped straight to it. Ended up being a nice deck as well (and the same, I think w/o the lands and this general mindset I wouldn't be able to jump to a 3 color deck that didn't even include the color I started with). If I didn't open Rith, a black + 2c deck would probably have ended up alright as well. Still hoping to open a Chaplain to try that one out haha I watched some pros drafting and realized they were doing something completely different from what I'm used to, but was still lost on the general idea. Your tips made it click. Thanks a lot!
Agreed on Knight being first pick: during my phantom draft I had them and it could absolutely dominate an entire game while you build your boardstate. It becomes even more brutal on turns when you have nothing at all to play because your opponent simply can't attack or risk losing something without a trick. Overall, didn't enjoy my time with it because the tricks are insanely punishing this time and favors blue tempo that can just sit back and win. I sleep.
Fun thing out of the 3 or 4 defender decks I've had, I've done the worse with the P1P1 Wingmantle Chaplain. Gotta admit the rest of the deck didn't quite come together
Id add in Ronas Vortex and the Green spell that destroys enchantments when you pay four they are total removal umcommons granted but black seems stronk great color to splash even if you arent black
Been getting 7 - 1 in a few time in aggro blue / red with 1 or 2 copies of Axe in deck. It has carried many games with creatures with trample or really good blockers even on wide boards. I can send you lists of the decks and main deck 2 axes in IRL blue / red aggro build draft went 2 - 1.
The problem with Scatter is build-wise, it’s more limiting, because you don’t want too many in an aggressive deck, which Blue can commonly end up in. Infusion, Bite Down and Arrest are all solid and you wouldn’t hesitate to take a second one, even without knowing if you are going aggro, control or midrange yet.
@@benjaminkidd2655 yeah, there's no comparison. Essence scatter you need to draw early and leave your mana open, with less selection - you use it pretty much whenever you can. Compared to a three mana hard removal that also blocks recursion that you can draw or use at any time. Difference is just ETBs, but again that's balanced out by preventing recursion.
This is the first set I've been under 50% winrate simce Zendikar. Normally I hover at around 51-55%. Which sucks because I really enjoy this set. My gems are not going to get me as many drafts this time around
Strangly i drafted boros splashing colorfixing faerie and ertai, and got to 6 wins but then double chaplan ended this draft But most of the wins were 4 mana white +2/+1 spell on a token board
It’s not an aggro format, but I do think you are underestimating how good the aggro decks can be. Part of why I think the format is good is because of the tension between tempo decks and value decks.
@@samuelrussell5760 I mean, I agree entirely, so not sure where we disagree! I do think aggro decks can get overpowered and domain decks can get run over, that is sort of the tension of the format. Which is good. I think the best Domain deck is better than the best aggro deck, but yeah.
@@NizzahonMagic Understood. It seems we do mostly agree. Your five tips just felt a bit like you were saying that aggressive tempo decks aren't really viable. In the end, the best deck to draft is almost always going to be the one that is open. Domain may be stronger when it gets there, but I do feel like aggro ends up being easier to draft and plays a little more reliably. I also think that domain decks require more hard decisions during the draft and deck building. Figuring out how to make your curve and mana-base work reliably is tricky and if it is not done right you will get run over.
I tried to do a "domain", deck in draft only because someone else made one and he wrecked us in draft.... Never again....I tried to make a domain deck and I failed hard....never again domain in draft for me
@@NizzahonMagic I know that is not right but...it left a bitter taste in my mouth . I really , REALLY tried to make a proper domain deck and everything else was destroying me before I was able to do anything. Especially any aggro deck. I still don't know how the other guy that made domain deck manage to destroy us. Btw, I am talking about paper magic since I do not have the time and money to spent on MTGA as well
My problem with it is that it’s too expensive to move around. It can help small creatures trade up, but then you have to spend more mana to equip it somewhere else. It just becomes too hard to have mana to move it around and still keep casting spells. Maybe if it cost two to cast and one to equip it would work better. Or bone splitter.
It's funny, every format you like, i don't. The opposite also seems to be true. I liked New Capenna. The defender deck is one of the reasons I quit the format.
My take on this format and SNC is pretty much in line with the consensus among Limited grinders and aficionados, so I am not the outlier! Haha The Defender deck can definitely be frustrating, and it is the kind of deck that is less of a problem in pod draft, because only one player will have the deck at max. But on Arena? You can run into it over and over. Still not a reason to quit the format, though.
i had the best deck ever with half removal half bombs and i killed f.ing 4 chaplains and then my enemy played a 5th one and crushed me ... this card is unbelievable
With all due respect, people who splashed more than 2 colours in this draft were stomped. They just weren't fast/consistent enough. I don't play white/blue... I played white blue in this draft because of the sheer volume of cheap flyers, and decent white/blue removal. I never thought I'd play bird agro of all things. Most people I ended up stomping were mana starved due to missing colours despite having an absurd amount of dual lands. Also, with all those dual lands coming in tapped, they just couldn't catch me. I drew very good multicoloured cards, but during the hour draft, I built multiple decks, and knew that the faster you were, the better you'd be in this format. Anytime someone got something good and multicoloured out, ward or not, they were just too tapped down to do anything against the constant exile, and bounce for next to nothing.
Eh, aggro is definitely good in this format (UR + UW), but most other decks can easily splash for a rare or uncommon, because fixing is so prevalent, and so many cards reward you with either domain or off-color kickers. But running two - four taplands for a splash is different than a full 5c domain deck. I've gotten a ton of trophies with 5c soup decks, because Nael + the red ping-for-domain creature are so good. But 5c decks with tons of taplands really need a lot of blockers or cheap removal to beat aggro, you can't run 5 colors and have no meaningful plays before turn 4.
White-Blue Aggro can indeed be good. But saying people who splash colors get stomped just isn't true, the data doesn't back that up, nor does my individual experience. It sounds like you are basing everything off of one draft. Aggro is real in the format, but so is Domain.
The fall season birds in the background are amazing
All of the best decks I have drafted in this format have been aggro decks. Of course there were some losses to decks that really got there with domain or walls or just general grindy value. But when aggro is open, you can draft powerful decks that often just run people over.
Removal being good is a two edged sword. It can help slower decks stabilize. But when an aggro deck gets ahead, good removal just keeps blowing away the blockers. It also helps that there are several commons that can create multiple bodies.
This is the case for most sets, some form of aggro is almost always great in limited. You don't have to have great card quality if the opponent is dead before they can play bombs. It usually feels like it is less that aggro decks are especially good and more that limited decks are rarely good AGAINST aggro.
Though I will say Captain's Call + Heroic Charge just feels good.
I got into drafting mostly because of this channel. This set just seems to click with me, and I'm glad to say I got into the top 10 in mythic ladder a few hours ago. So thank you for the help along the way.
Nice!
Congrats! And many thanks to Nizzahon, he is one of the best MTG content creators hands down
Everyone drafting 5 color pile and here i am drafting boros aggro with 7 wins. Aggro is really good if every opponent is playing tapped lands it seems.
Yea I usually draft anything but blue and take a lot of combat tricks
Also if 1 out of 3 cards swarms/pumps the board
Haven't played DMU enough to judge it accurately, but this sounds a lot like my Kaldheim experience xD
Everyone was playing snow duals, and after a few weeks I just forced Boros aggro basically every time and rarely got below 6 wins.
I feel like if I get it going really well 1st pack then it's the best, but if I don't I end up w/ a very "meh" aggro cause everybody is picking all the good cards cause they all 5c lol. Feels like I started doing way better after I stopped trying to force a 2c aggro (and even ended up w/ a crazy good 3c aggro once). This is personal/anecdotal though, ymmv of course.
I was scared of the domain cards too then got absoultley slaughtered by them like the red one that hits you for 5 just by entering
Regarding the removal: design-wise, it looks like making domain/5 color nonsense it’s own full archetype in this format balances out the inclusion of lots of very good removal at common, because they made the best unconditional removal cost double Black or double White.
That, plus other solid commons like Talos Lookout and the signpost legends with double single color pips seems to have let them push domain cards without devolving the format to multicolor good stuff soup. Really impressed with the job they did here.
I did a draft and built blue/white defenders and damn near swept the entire tournament, and the bird chaplain was the key to that. Mainly due to everyone going for red/black/sheoldred.
Thanks to your advice I now got my first 7-1 out of the latest draft. The Wingman Chaplin is outright game ending in most board state.
Referencing @ 8:20 in the video. Why are red white/red blue the decks that should only stay 2 colors? I assumed Red White/Blue White would compliment each other by having alot of creatures n Red Blue would benefit from having access to more instant/sorcery spells with white?
The aggro decks are better if you are more focused with your mana. If you try to go full on 3 colors you will slow down significantly, and be unable to finish off Domain decks. Splashing a third color is always fine, but full on 3 colors is not a good idea.
First picked the white defender pack one. Did not see a defender until pack 3, 4 un-common and 3 common.
Old player here (many years without playing), decided to play arena a bit and this format was weird for me, your tips were very helpful!
Specially the thing about prioritizing lands to be able to play 3 colors+.
Right away I reached 7 wins (1 loss), was sort of black right away, picked a couple of okay reds when black dried out, but prioritizing the lands over "just okay" stuff, it allowed me to play a really bonkers RBW in the end, while also having the blue for some kickers lol (where I feel I'd have ended up w/ only a "meh" rakdos before).
Next one 5 wins, 1st pack was mainly black in the first picks, then whatever good cards + lands. Got nothing good on B 2nd packed. Opened a Rith on 3rd, had the lands + a couple of on color good cards, jumped straight to it. Ended up being a nice deck as well (and the same, I think w/o the lands and this general mindset I wouldn't be able to jump to a 3 color deck that didn't even include the color I started with). If I didn't open Rith, a black + 2c deck would probably have ended up alright as well.
Still hoping to open a Chaplain to try that one out haha
I watched some pros drafting and realized they were doing something completely different from what I'm used to, but was still lost on the general idea. Your tips made it click.
Thanks a lot!
Agreed on Knight being first pick: during my phantom draft I had them and it could absolutely dominate an entire game while you build your boardstate. It becomes even more brutal on turns when you have nothing at all to play because your opponent simply can't attack or risk losing something without a trick. Overall, didn't enjoy my time with it because the tricks are insanely punishing this time and favors blue tempo that can just sit back and win. I sleep.
It feels like Sheoldred and black in general are so strong. any advice for black mid range?
It sounds like you're talking about constructed -- so, nope!
Thank you for these tips!
Fun thing out of the 3 or 4 defender decks I've had, I've done the worse with the P1P1 Wingmantle Chaplain. Gotta admit the rest of the deck didn't quite come together
3/3 flying knight that has magecraft that makes 1/1s and wingmantle Champlain on the board at the same time was amazing.
Id add in Ronas Vortex and the Green spell that destroys enchantments when you pay four they are total removal umcommons granted but black seems stronk great color to splash even if you arent black
Which/how many rares and mythics would you take over wingmantle?
Been getting 7 - 1 in a few time in aggro blue / red with 1 or 2 copies of Axe in deck. It has carried many games with creatures with trample or really good blockers even on wide boards. I can send you lists of the decks and main deck 2 axes in IRL blue / red aggro build draft went 2 - 1.
In a 40 cards two colored draft deck, how much mana do I have to put in?
You usually want 17 lands.
I love your October owls! 😍
I love this set so much, it cured me of my hatred of SNC
Same. I stopped drafting on arena after about two weeks post SNC dropping and haven't drafted until this set but it's so fun
I've done maybe 10 drafts, and still have yet to see anybody play Wingmantle Chaplin against me.
I think you’re sleeping on Essence Scatter a little bit. It’s the best common in the pack imo.
The problem with Scatter is build-wise, it’s more limiting, because you don’t want too many in an aggressive deck, which Blue can commonly end up in. Infusion, Bite Down and Arrest are all solid and you wouldn’t hesitate to take a second one, even without knowing if you are going aggro, control or midrange yet.
@@benjaminkidd2655 yeah, there's no comparison. Essence scatter you need to draw early and leave your mana open, with less selection - you use it pretty much whenever you can. Compared to a three mana hard removal that also blocks recursion that you can draw or use at any time. Difference is just ETBs, but again that's balanced out by preventing recursion.
You do want to be a more grindy deck. I lean heavy to those so id also say its my pick for best common, aggro just never works out for me this set.
This is the first set I've been under 50% winrate simce Zendikar. Normally I hover at around 51-55%. Which sucks because I really enjoy this set. My gems are not going to get me as many drafts this time around
Well, hope these tips help improve your win rate
I always add mid game bombs to my aggro decks. Is that something else or is it still aggro
What exactly is a "mid game bomb"?
How many lands should I use on a draft deck for the red/white deck?
0-2. mostly if you have offcolor kickers that are good.
Strangly i drafted boros splashing colorfixing faerie and ertai, and got to 6 wins but then double chaplan ended this draft
But most of the wins were 4 mana white +2/+1 spell on a token board
You splashed a blue 1 mana 1/1 that needs green to be a 5 mana 3/3 flyer in your boros deck.
@@AT-il2ej yeah, and with 3 duals for blue i casted it every game
how do you have that fancy mic and it’s still clipping and sounds wack
I tried defenders and got rolled. Idk seems like an agro format still. Maybe I just get to many Nishoba
It definitely is not an aggro format. Aggro is good, but so are lots of other decks.
It’s not an aggro format, but I do think you are underestimating how good the aggro decks can be. Part of why I think the format is good is because of the tension between tempo decks and value decks.
@@samuelrussell5760 I mean, I agree entirely, so not sure where we disagree! I do think aggro decks can get overpowered and domain decks can get run over, that is sort of the tension of the format. Which is good.
I think the best Domain deck is better than the best aggro deck, but yeah.
@@NizzahonMagic Understood. It seems we do mostly agree. Your five tips just felt a bit like you were saying that aggressive tempo decks aren't really viable. In the end, the best deck to draft is almost always going to be the one that is open. Domain may be stronger when it gets there, but I do feel like aggro ends up being easier to draft and plays a little more reliably.
I also think that domain decks require more hard decisions during the draft and deck building. Figuring out how to make your curve and mana-base work reliably is tricky and if it is not done right you will get run over.
I tried to do a "domain", deck in draft only because someone else made one and he wrecked us in draft.... Never again....I tried to make a domain deck and I failed hard....never again domain in draft for me
Tried it once and it didn't work so give up on it forever? That's not the best life or magic philosophy haha
@@NizzahonMagic I know that is not right but...it left a bitter taste in my mouth . I really , REALLY tried to make a proper domain deck and everything else was destroying me before I was able to do anything. Especially any aggro deck. I still don't know how the other guy that made domain deck manage to destroy us. Btw, I am talking about paper magic since I do not have the time and money to spent on MTGA as well
@@Mil89GR For a good Domain deck, you need cheap removal or you get run over.
@@NizzahonMagic I may give it another go next time. If the other fella could do it, so can I ,I suppose. It just felt really wrong when I played it.
Great now I've been facing nothing but wingmantle/ defender decks all fucking night 🤬
You're wrong about the axe, it has it's niche uses
I'm not. The data backs up every word.
My problem with it is that it’s too expensive to move around. It can help small creatures trade up, but then you have to spend more mana to equip it somewhere else. It just becomes too hard to have mana to move it around and still keep casting spells. Maybe if it cost two to cast and one to equip it would work better. Or bone splitter.
It's funny, every format you like, i don't.
The opposite also seems to be true. I liked New Capenna.
The defender deck is one of the reasons I quit the format.
My take on this format and SNC is pretty much in line with the consensus among Limited grinders and aficionados, so I am not the outlier! Haha
The Defender deck can definitely be frustrating, and it is the kind of deck that is less of a problem in pod draft, because only one player will have the deck at max. But on Arena? You can run into it over and over.
Still not a reason to quit the format, though.
i had the best deck ever with half removal half bombs and i killed f.ing 4 chaplains and then my enemy played a 5th one and crushed me ... this card is unbelievable
With all due respect, people who splashed more than 2 colours in this draft were stomped. They just weren't fast/consistent enough. I don't play white/blue... I played white blue in this draft because of the sheer volume of cheap flyers, and decent white/blue removal.
I never thought I'd play bird agro of all things. Most people I ended up stomping were mana starved due to missing colours despite having an absurd amount of dual lands.
Also, with all those dual lands coming in tapped, they just couldn't catch me.
I drew very good multicoloured cards, but during the hour draft, I built multiple decks, and knew that the faster you were, the better you'd be in this format. Anytime someone got something good and multicoloured out, ward or not, they were just too tapped down to do anything against the constant exile, and bounce for next to nothing.
Eh, aggro is definitely good in this format (UR + UW), but most other decks can easily splash for a rare or uncommon, because fixing is so prevalent, and so many cards reward you with either domain or off-color kickers. But running two - four taplands for a splash is different than a full 5c domain deck.
I've gotten a ton of trophies with 5c soup decks, because Nael + the red ping-for-domain creature are so good. But 5c decks with tons of taplands really need a lot of blockers or cheap removal to beat aggro, you can't run 5 colors and have no meaningful plays before turn 4.
White-Blue Aggro can indeed be good.
But saying people who splash colors get stomped just isn't true, the data doesn't back that up, nor does my individual experience. It sounds like you are basing everything off of one draft.
Aggro is real in the format, but so is Domain.