Sanders & Socialism: Debate Between Nobel Laureate Paul Krugman & Socialist Economist Richard Wolff
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- As Bernie Sanders’s runaway win in Nevada cements his position as the front-runner for the Democratic nomination, the Democratic Party establishment and much of the mainstream media are openly expressing concern about a self-described democratic socialist leading the presidential ticket. His opponents have also attacked his ambitious agenda. Last week during the primary debate in Las Vegas, Bernie Sanders addressed misconceptions about socialism. Invoking the words of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Sanders decried what he called “socialism for the very rich, rugged individualism for the poor.”
For more, we host a debate on Bernie Sanders and democratic socialism, featuring two well-known economists. Paul Krugman is a New York Times op-ed columnist and author of many books, including his latest, “Arguing with Zombies: Economics, Politics, and the Fight for a Better Future.” One of his recent columns is headlined “Bernie Sanders Isn’t a Socialist.” Richard Wolff is professor emeritus of economics at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, and visiting professor at The New School. He is the founder of Democracy at Work and hosts the weekly national television and radio program “Economic Update.” He’s the author of several books, including “Understanding Socialism.”
#DemocracyNow
Democracy Now! is an independent global news hour that airs on nearly 1,400 TV and radio stations Monday through Friday. Watch our livestream 8-9AM ET: democracynow.org
Please consider supporting independent media by making a donation to Democracy Now! today: democracynow.o...
FOLLOW DEMOCRACY NOW! ONLINE:
TH-cam: / democracynow
Facebook: / democracynow
Twitter: / democracynow
Instagram: / democracynow
SoundCloud: / democracynow
iTunes: itunes.apple.c...
Daily Email Digest: democracynow.o...
"NOT ME, US"
Krugman: SO SELF INDULGENT
LOL exactly right! That's what I tell people anytime someone says Bernie only cares about himself or that he's an authoritarian
Noting self indulging here. He's just being realistic.
@CanadaCraig better to just be called whatever people are going to call you anyway, and focus on actually doing things instead of arguing semantics.
An old fart roleplaying as Che is most definitely self indulgence
@@kalinsimovski5081 I'd like to see the parallels between a military backed violent revolutionary and a person backed by millions of everyday people for reform within the normal guidelines of civil political discourse.
I'm an "old people" who has been waiting a lifetime for a Sander's. It's about time.
We need more like you. G'day mate!
me too, we put up with the al gores and the HRCs and we suffered through them, now the so called moderates need to let us take our turn and shut the fuck up.
Thank you Ken for helping to lead the charge. I'm 43 and I'm honored to be your reinforcement.
❤️❤️
Me Too!❤️
I understand Krugman, but they would call Sanders "socialist" and "communist" anyway. I think Krugmann should watch Krystall Ball from The Hill more.
"The Rising" ... has arisen !!!
Exactly. It doesn't matter who is put up. They called Obama a socialist, communist, and marxist. I mean come on.
Actually Krugman was insulting. Basically he stated that people are too stupid to make the distinction between socialism and communism. Granted there are still some but most these days can make the distinction.
Krugman is a disingenuous person.
To be fair to Krugman he’s right that Sanders’ platform isn’t full blown socialism/democratic socialism, it’s social democracy. Branding himself as soc dem instead probably would’ve been more accurate and strategic
"I expect Sanders to be the nominee..."
Oh how that stings now in December of 2020.
I didn’t think Bernie could still make me cry but it seems now I have more reason than ever.
@@mischevious Paul Krugman is correct, Bernie Sanders was my choice also, the FDR of our time, but he killed himself by calling himself a democratic socialist. He simply is in favor of domestic programs that they have in every other developed nation in the world, that's all, and that's not really socialism. When he says single payer health care, they accuse him of being Stalin. He should have labeled himself a progressive independent , or social democrat, and maybe he would have won.
@@nikita-dh5je Nonsense. Screaming “Socialist Commie!” has been the go to method for attacking democrats for decades regardless of how far right those democrats lean.
Even now they’re trumpeting that those radical leftists Biden and Harris will implement their socialist agenda!
And what killed Bernie was corruption plain and simple. Democrats buried him with intent to do so;
Because a Sanders administration would have had no jobs for self serving lobbyists or corrupt sycophant consultants like Neera Tanden.
Because a Sanders administration would actually prioritize labor rights and climate change and environmental concerns and infrastructure and healthcare.
But mainly because Wall St had informed Democrats back in February of 2019 when he announced his candidacy that if Sanders did become the democrat nominee,
that they would vote for Trump.
There is no way to vote against the interests of Goldman Sachs.
@@mischevious If Bernie Sanders had won the nomination the Wall Street bankers probably would have persuaded Bloomberg to run as a 3rd party and messed things up.
@@nikita-dh5je Things are messed up, seriously messed up.
Biden has indicated in pretty much every way he can now that he intends to go back to Wall St, corporate and national security state pandering business as usual.
Repeating the very same damaging behavior that brought us Trump,
will also usher in another fascist authoritarian. Only this one will odds on be much smarter than Trump, and far wiser for his mistakes.
Frankly the present situation is sickening. We have serious problems to address. We’re rapidly running out of time to do so and the President Elect has not only stated he’ll do nothing to help, with every cabinet pick and word that slips from his mouth he’s already making matters worse.
5:42 Bloomberg: _-"We're not gonna throw out capitalism. We tried that."_
No, Mike. We most definitely did not.
He meant humanity
the groans when he said communism lol
Well to be fair, everywhere the means of production has been taken over by the government has failed. The socialist experimentation is over and real socialists are stupid. Bernie is not a Socialist. Denmark, Finland, Sweden etc are not socialist countries. They have markets with regulations keeping crony capitalism in check.
@@eugenekim4648 As Sanders say he wants more worker influence at the workplace, that is not the same as government shutting down businesses and running them.
This is also seen in the documentary "The take" by Naomi Klein, a business goes belly up and the owners leave the business completely and the workers simply continue to do work. And as they do they make it democratic, everyone gets a voice and thus a say in which way the new co-operation business will go. This is not at all USSR.
@@eugenekim4648 I'm really tired of this socialist economy has failed. So capitalism never failed, right? It was always uneven, hypocritical discussion. Socialist are stupid says enough about your intelligence, and ignorance. And at least you're smart enough to get that Bernie isn't a socialist. But it's showing how so called West is brainwashed, enough money was put into the propaganda, to the point aren't really thinking freely, but they think they're.
You’re full if it bud,
I’m, like my neighbors and friends are in our 70’s.
Many have served this country.
To a person we all support a universal healthcare‼️
That's good to hear. We thank you for your support!
I'm so glad you think that way. You'll tank this election for me and give us 4 more years of MAGA! Thank you!!
@@jbweld6193 Your candidate already did that!
Krugman is a joke!
Hence democratic socialism
"We privatize gains and socialize losses"
- Noam Chomsky
confuzler that statement speaks volumes
Certainly true in many cases .. but none of these politicians are suggesting any realistic approaches or solutions to deal with that problem. They are simply making essentially political rhetoric, more simplistic promises to try and buy your vote, and promises that largely they will not keep anyway. The real problems and issues are very structural in nature and could be solved if they were willing to address them in a logical way.
But they are not, even if they recognized them, which is questionable. The income tax system is a perfect example. It is the mot dysfunctional and ineffective system that anyone could ever possibly put together. It needs to be completely remade along sound and logical and effective principles and rules. None of these idiots are even remotely close to understanding that, let along considering it. They are simplistically talking about raising taxes a few per cent here, and taxing this new thing there. Absolute total smoke and mirrors. The truth of the matter is that the whole income tax system needs to be revised along basic principles, sound logic, and the the absence of politicians to be able to use the tax system as a reward and preference method to give tax breaks to their own vested interests and campaign donors. It really would not be all that hard to get that one ... but politicians will never do such, since the tax system is something akin to their own personal election and slush fund. Very sad for all americans, but that is reality.
@@Xolotl000 Yes, that is true to some degree. But first of all, Bernie has been a career politician for 30+ years and accomplished nothing to change that. Seems to me that 30+ years of not accomplishing your job is not much of a recommendation to give you yet more time to say you will accomplish it this time. Most employees who failed at their ob for that length of time certainly would not be given a promotion and told now get it done. Secondly, Bernie does not even really understand what the real problems are in that statement or how to actually address them. The problems are deeply structural in multiple areas and require very very major overhauls not just political rhetoric and simplistic alleged solutions. For example, raise taxes by 4% and tax a few new things is so simplistic as to be almost laughable. The real problem is that the US income tax system is totally dysfunctional and flawed in so many ways, that the only solution is a complete overhaul based on basic principles and a sound and logical approach that will enable the income tax system to function fairly, efficiently, and to accomplish it's basic purpose. It really would not be all that difficult to do that from a pragmatic and sound principle based approach. But Bernie's simplistic political rhetoric on that is not even in the universe of what really needs to be done.
@@Xolotl000 Not going to argue with you. The facts and objective comparison are pretty clear and overwhelming. Think whatever to like.
The Demi Establishments not only are able to buy the election they also now buying up the audience in the debates.
Who's the prime suspect?,.. better yet who's the Bernie Sanders supporters that have $700.00 dollars to waste on an South Carolina basic debate tickets?!? 🤔
"I expect sanders will probably be the nominee."
Why must you hurt me in this way
Paul Krugman is correct, Bernie Sanders was my choice also, the FDR of our time, but he killed himself by calling himself a democratic socialist. He simply is in favor of domestic programs that they have in every other developed nation in the world, that's all, and that's not really socialism. When he says single payer health care, they accuse him of being Stalin. He should have labeled himself a progressive independent , or social democrat, and maybe he would have won.
Why do you support a man who has proven that he can’t get shit done?
30 years in Congress, and what does he have to show for it?
4 post offices have new names.
He helped elect trump!
And what a sore loser he was.
Oh, wait, I forgot. Bernie didn’t lose.
HE WAS CHEATED!
IT WAS A CONSPIRACY!
THE DNC AND THE MEDIA!
THE MODERATES!
THE CENTRISTS!
THE ENEMY!
BLAME THEM ALL!
BERNIE WAS CHEATED!
Medicare for All and Make Mexico pay for it!!!!
Build a Wall and Make Wall Street Pay for it!!
Trumpler and Sanders - 2 demagogues who’ll promise you whatever you want to hear.
2 men who can’t admit when they LOSE.
2 men who are quick to shift blame.
2 men who live in fear of apologizing.
2 sides of the same shit sandwich.
Bernie sucks. Get over it.
Biden is a good man, more experienced than anyone else to take the office.
Give him some support.
Oh, wait, I forgot. Kamala.
No way you’re going to support a woman. Berniebros simply can’t handle women.
@@honeysucklecat yall are assuming a lot of things there bud. I never said I thought he was cheated, I implied that I was sad that he lost
@@honeysucklecat Biden's record is supporting Iraq war, Patriot Act, Bush's tax cuts for wealthy, 1984 crime bill, endless compromise with Mitch McConnell, backruptcy bill, opposing medicare for all, raking in millions from credit card companies in Delaware and protecting them for years, friend of corporate lobbyist, endless wars in mideast, passes al lot of bills with Republicans. Decent guy yes, but 4 more years of Obama may lead to another Trump , is that what you want? And no, Sanders did not help elect Trump, he did 39 rallies, for H. Clinton, she defeated herself with inept campaign. The primaries had several states where independents could not vote, if Sanders had gone against Trump, Sanders would have beaten Trump easily, he won all those midwest states where H. Clinton lost to Trump, Trump was afraid to debate Sanders.
Biden will be president in a month, good luck to him, but if he is simply Clinton or Obama 2.0 then we are doomed for another Trump in 2024.
The way the establishment is reacting to Bernie can be summed up as follows:
*Muh purse!*
Me pearls!
No. It's muh 4 more years of Trump.
I reckon that's the reaction of most human beings when they encounter someone trying to take something of theirs without permission.
@@TheDNAGroup You mean like when billionaires take absurd percentages of technical innovation, progress, and productivity achieved through collective human effort?
@@TheDNAGroup Apparently you know nothing of what Bernie is trying to do. If say getting in your car and moving wherever you liked when you liked was a *RIGHT* and not a privilege as the states want us to think it is and Bernie wanted to give that *RIGHT* back to you would you not want him too? Bernie wants to make sure *OUR RIGHTS* Stay OURS.
Note to Krugman: as a 66 year old I can attest that not all of Bernie's supporters are young people.
As a 55 year old I can attest to the same thing.
Me too!
It's true! I've volunteered dozens of times and it's become obvious that we're truly a diverse group.
Gen x for Bernie here.
I'm 68 and Bernie has my vote!
*_"Give Republicans unnecessary ammunition"_*
Let's not kid our selves, they would have called him socialist even if he never directly called himself a socialist.
the Greatjon that still doesn't mean he is wrong about that.
@@yao052 It means we shouldn't care what the Republicans say, Obama campaigned as a progressive and the Republicans labled him as a "socialist" and "communist" and they lost, TWICE - Bill Clinton also pretended to be on the left, the Republicans called him a socialist and they lost, TWICE!
Republicans win when the Democratic candidate runs away from the left.
the Greatjon No one even said Socialist till Sanders spammed the word.
@@limitlessapocalypse2702 NOPE, Socialist has been used as the Republican bogeyman word since the 1930s, do try to keep up.
@@jatkinson85 yep. they've already called Warren socialist. whoever is the nominee will carry this label. might as well be someone who would be proud of it.
“Bloomberg isn’t evil, unless you listen to the things he has said.”
You could also find evidence of his evil by examining the things he's done.
"You can tell by the way that it is"
I also heard he has a '666' birthmark on his arse and is afraid to go into churches.
The low end workers have to refused to go to work in those jobs.Its happening.The workers getting smarter.Its the rich against the poor.
I careless about what Sanders calls himself and more about his policies and ideas.
His messages regarding his policies are LOUD and clear, "From each according to their ability; to each according to their needs!".
Mr. Magnus, under a President Sanders Administration will I get to define YOUR needs????
Better yet, will I get to define Bernie's needs? I mean, does the Bern really NEED 3 multi-million dollar mansions????
Yes. Especially that he will increase government spending to 53% of GDP.
well not your average american white voter who screams MAGA when they are so fucked by republican policies. Everytime i look at trump and his followers i just laugh so hard ...
You might not care,, but many millions do attach significance to labels and names. So the real question is whether Bernie is electable or not?
exactly!
This guy sounds scared.
This is a sign of weakness!
Bernie Sanders 2020 !
Fear is a form of intelligence.
@@Greenblood60 Not really!
Yeah I've flicked the "don't give a switch".
Sick and tired of being scared and careful.
But you're forgetting one thing. Bernie is going up against another none establishment.
@@LRF49 Mafia Don? Different galaxy. lol
"160 million Americans have insurance now" - Kruegman ...... Yeah but the other 160 million Americans DON'T. Schools don't generally consider 50% a passing grade.
The ones who have the insurance still have to file for bankruptcies if they are hit with a big disease like cancers.
@Sudhir Kakar You're disgusting, beat it!!
Sudhir Kakar ... 100% of India doesn't try at hygiene or not being corrupt.
BTW. did anyone else notice the headline ("Nobel Laureate Paul Krugman & Socialist Economist Richard Wolff")? I think it's easy to see which side Democracy Now is on!
@Sudhir Kakar i dunno where the fuck you're from but if it's not here you probably have universal healthcare so stfu. and if you want people to "live healthy," then healthcare being prohibitively expensive is not the way to do it
It's insane to think that this was recorded in 2020. So much of politics has changed over the course of this year.
And so much hasn’t.
We need him now more than ever.
After watching on the day I can assure you i'm so glad so many awoke politically in a positive way after, at least.
Or we know now who is really there and who is a TFG (too far gone)
you had about half a year of actually promising discussions where medicare for all and other issues gained a lot of traction and then you went straight back to neoliberal politicians fear-mongering about socialism and communism.
@@darrenfleming7901 No actually the fight for universal healthcare continues, and stronger than ever now in this pandemic.
Too bad you’re so uninformed
and uninvolved.
@@darrenfleming7901 i was about to say, not much changed at all. instead of healthcare and climate change, it's no dem progress on the pandemic and stimulus checks
"Why use that word?"
Because he believes it and hes an honest person. End of story.
But politics is supposed to be about lying!
Lol! Good luck trying to win the election on 'honesty'. And no, I'm not being facetious, just brutally realistic. Americans don't care about honestly. Sad but true.
@@alexomoridon8099 You're hanging out with the wrong Americans then
And after decades of right wing propaganda attacking that word we should strive to take it back and own it. I too am proud to be a socialist.
If you knew anything about politics you know that's not true.
People are calling Sanders "not a real Democrat". There couldn't be a more ringing endorsement.
You’re going down in flames
tomgnyc The fact that I know a Republican loving Sanders man naming that practice "BS semenatics" cause HE can see how Bernie's voted with the Democrats 95% of the time, that says something.
Or Bernie hasn't been a Democrat since the 70s when the party turned its back on the working-class. People from the era when the party was actually popular and successful would recognize Bernie as a Democrat.
I stayed the same for 4 decades and am somehow a socialist now.
Then why run as a Democrat 🤔
Dear God please help Bernie Sanders be our next president. We are being squeezed out by the corporations and government. We have worked hard we deserve to live with dignity. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Mike Netherlin don’t pray, go vote and donate money... even $1
Amen
Pray for strength to do whatever you can. It doesn't have to be much. I'm from Europe. You just could use chalk or toothpaste painting (a cup of water with a spoon of toothpaste) and write "We deserve dignity. Vote for Bernie." on walls and the street. Here it's legal if the color is not permanent. You can ask shop owners if you can write on their shop windows.
If you look at history you will see that the working-class will never live with dignity until it is armed, organized, and unified in its goal to defeat the capitalists and their state. They will never concede us any real power by holding hands, singing songs, or praying - this peaceful way of thinking is imposed on the working-class so it never poses a real threat to the capitalists.
deities help those who help themselves...
God I remember this time. When we all thought Bernie was going to win :(
Anyone familiar with the history of the Democratic Party would know that they would never let him win. And that’s exactly what they did.
@@Liliquan Adolph Reed and other realists 'knew' he wasn't going to win the nomination but pleasantly surprised he got as far as he did. Uncle Bernie showed us the way. Now we have to follow.
@@Sinleqeunnini Follow what? Universal centrism? - Just because USA is two notched the left of fascism, doesn't make centrist programs the pathway to social justice, as one who actually lives in the 'idyllic' social democracies, it's not as fantastic as you think. As long as Capitalism fundamentally exist in a nation, the capitalist class will continue to roll back every singe social program, or security net, as they currently are doing, and have been doing.
All the social democratic parties in, for example Scandinavia, have been neoliberal parties since the 2000s.
@@qTHEGAMERp
Follow what? Universal centrism?
M: My meaning should have been clear right away: Follow Bernie, what he stood for, etc.
The rest of your comments require no further response.
- Just because USA is two notched the left of fascism, doesn't make centrist programs the pathway to social justice, as one who actually lives in the 'idyllic' social democracies, it's not as fantastic as you think. As long as Capitalism fundamentally exist in a nation, the capitalist class will continue to roll back every singe social program, or security net, as they currently are doing, and have been doing.
All the social democratic parties in, for example Scandinavia, have been neoliberal parties since the 2000s.
It’s like they said in the video: “You aren’t going to be nominated without a good number of old people voting for you.” Most older people (ironically) disapprove Bernie simply because he’s a socialist. When old Americans think of socialism, they think Cuba and the USSR and China and do not think of Germany and Scandinavia; places where socialism has succeeded. They confuse socialism with totalitarianism to the detriment of everyone involved.
Sanders is going to drag Chris Matthews to Central Park and force him to pay a teeny tiny percentage more in taxes. OHHHH NOOOO! THE HORROR!
love it
Wish i could be there!!! Chris looks and sounds like a Nazi!!!
Followed by a physical health check-up and an affordable prescription for anxiety pills.
:sniff: Poor poor corporate media whores not getting their way for once.
@@billytheweasel they just might get it what they wish for. If we switch Steve Bannon crowd to Richard and Bernie. Bannon: Bloomberg has a personal vendetta against Trump
Fox News - i left some comments there.
I am nearly 70 years old and I support Bernie Sanders! Time to put the health and future of average Americans FIRST...not the billionaires and corporations.
Denise Holmes, This 72 year old for BERNIE SANDERS.
@Stinky Nuts aka Lamarcus Are you trolling? The government would not be in control, it would set a floor above which luxury items could be offered freely. Just no more nonsense about people going broke over medical needs. That is a thing right now, embarrassingly enough for our country.
@Stinky Nuts aka Lamarcus But what you are describing has no legitimate connection to what is being put forth. State communism is not being suggested, which is what government control would entail.
The whole conversation is about the title "socialism" and why Bernie shouldn't even use the title. "Social Democracy" is more of what he's pulling for and that's a capitalistic economy with strong social safety nets such as universal healthcare. Our average American brother and sisters shouldn't have to go bankrupt because someone in their family gets sick when we're the richest country in the world. I applaud our younger and older voters seeing past the "socialist" title for something that's vastly more important.
Denise I am 76 years old, and I am against Commrad Sanders. Has your old age caused you to forget what socialism/communism has done around the world????? It has killed millions.....no country voluntarily taken communism. And the ones that have had communism imposed on them have had their countries ruined!!!!!! What country would you like to move to because this country WILL NOT be communist. I, my 3 brothers, my father and 2 uncles have fought against it. Where were you in the 50s, 60s, 70s. 80s, 90s. 'til now????
Richaaaaaaaaaaard💪💪💪💪💪💓💓💓 is the maaaaaan
Krugman,:" Bloomberg is not evil."??? Really?
Mehrdad Dalamie Bloomberg is evil!
Yeah a billionaire who bought the DNC & who owns a large part of the corporate media including Krugman.
Not even a year later, this discussion already feels like ancient history.
Richard Wolff's time has come. He's the man! Check out some of his debates against capitalists. He's fierce.
Bart Scantlin Richard wolfs time has come and gone..., he’s a fool and he’s dead wrong
Bart Scantlin I wouldn’t trust Wolff - or Krugman for that matter - to drive me home they are wrong that often
@@Aaron-ir4he who is right?
I have employer provided healthcare and I'd give it up right now for Medicare for ALL. My employer can take my healthcare away anytime they want!
yeah! Anyone who says that this shit is a fine work by capitalists - should be beaten to death. It is condescending, as well as all those "how do we help the third world??" questions are racist.
capitalists are also given the power to decide who gets to live or not. wtf is that?
America can't be paying healthcare when it has an illegal immigration problem that's out of control. Who qualifies for it?
@@aralsea1 we should make people like you illegal
I have health insurance for the first time in 12 years, when I got a job working for... my insurance company last year. I could not afford it before then no matter how badly I wanted or needed it. Now I pay half my premiums cost, which is still a significant burden on my $16 hour income. I too would be glad for the Medicare for all, even if it means I may have to find another job.
Bernie is honest. That’s why he labels himself a democratic socialist instead of trying to hide from the word. His honesty is a strength and shouldn’t be the subject of criticism
He needs to be more honest about his 30 year congress grift. Only 9 laws authored and passed and ZERO coalitions. Where's he been all this time? He's a talker and that it, never does anything except yell.
Should be democratic communist then.
Yeah, North Korea calls themselves "democratic" also. It's just a word, means nothing.
His supporters are all a bunch of little bitches!!!!
I welcome Bernie delusional honesty. This means in November it will be easier for us to smash this naked socialist.
American politics in a nutshell:
1. Person: "We should give our people a better life, we should give home to homeless people, we should raise the benefits for our workers, we should tax the rich for the benefit of poor"
2. Guy: "That's communism"
*Everyone in America* : Hell yeah, let's elect the second guy
Sad tho
I'm a Boomer and will be voting for Bernie.
Krugman is out of touch
Not out of touch, he knows where the paycheck comes from, he didn't get the Nobel for no reason
@@saadhasan2300 He doesn't have a Nobel prize, he's a narrative spinner, and I can tell as a Mathematics lecturer that teaches service courses to students of Economics, that economists don't know where the paycheck comes from at all, what they teach is a religion, that historically and experimentally has never worked.
Camille Harris, DITTO!
that's what happens when you become part of the establishment like krugman. outsiders don't win nobel prizes and write for the new york times
Same here boomer Class of '61 and I'll be voting for Bernie here in Texas and the national election.
Chris Matthews: "Bernie would have me executed in Central Park." This is journalism?
Why in Central Park though? I'm not American, so I can't really comment, but don't you have plazas? The white house has a lawn, right? I cannot for the life of me understand the reasoning behind Central Park.
@@Mikkamel Trump thinks 5th Avenue, NYC is the place.
We do have plazas, though we call them "squares", even when they are not square.
No, it's fear mongering! And Krugman as an economic editor of NYT is doing what his masters tell him to say. He is just being dishonest for not identifying himself as such.
And if Bernie was elected the elite would remove him from office...
@@ChannelMath But isn't it Bernie who is supposed to have Chris executed in Central Park? Or is it Trump too? Either way, I don't get why anyone would pick Central Park.
Chris Matthews isn’t the Devil. He’s just an actor. A bad actor with an even worse script writer
If he's an actor, he's one of those nutcase actors that stay in character 24 hrs a day.
He is a shill.
The last time he pumped his own gas it cost $0.20/gallon. He lives inside a sound proof mirror ball.
And a really annoying voice!!
Chris Matthews has gone off the deep end, totally unprofessional and irresponsible. He should be fired.
Paul: The people sending me hatemail don't think I'm centrist
Richard: Okay
yeah because they are lunatics fostered by fox news
@@merdacalcio probably. hatemail sucks coming from anyone though, I'm sure.
Yeah, he was very defensive about that.. I had to laugh when Richard mentioned the centrists who are having to face that they aren't on the left and you could feel Paul's discomfort.
@@dreamingrightnow1174 Krugman wrote pages upon pages about the fallacy of bothsideism that so called centrists engage in and is a proponent of a single payer healthcare system, a green new deal and deficit spending to invest into infrastructure.
There are points in which I might argue that he has centrist tendencies but those are abstract concepts of theory concerning the efficacy of modelling in economics and one might argue that the political spectrum in contemporary economics is not comparable to the one of manstream politics.
Then again even on that level one must give the man credit for his intellectual journey which has resulted in his straying from the new keynesian school of though which he was socialized in, trained under and to which he made major contributions.
I think if the American left can't accept or embrace someone like Krugman and instead opts for people like Richard Wolff they will just hinder themselves in terms of credibility and political potency.
@@jonathanm9993 When you say "..give the man credit for his intellectual journey which has resulted in his straying from the new Keynesian school of thought which he was socialized in.." you could just as well be speaking of Wolff. You seem to be defending Krugman's objection to being labeled a centrist but then disparaging the left ("..if the American left can't accept or embrace someone like Krugman and instead opts for people like Richard Wolff.."). I think you and Krugman need to pick a lane.
Paul Krugman is so annoying. His whole argument is "it makes people like me uncomfortable." And he wants to accuse Bernie of being self-indulgent
He has a far right opinion, Paul Krugman.
Krugman is another right wing nut dressed up a centrist.
ikr? "it's just too self indulgent to call yourself a socialist." wtf does that even mean? EVERYONE knows unfettrered capitalism is destroying our democracy and the planet, i'm so sick of centrist-splaining.
@@JeffreyGillespie exactly, when you consider how far right this country has moved in the last 40 years, reagan and nixon would be called "socialists" by this republiklan party, enough of these right wing "centrists".
@@zacharyrivera566 why is he far right to you?
Some of us boomers aren't sheep. Feel the burn!
YES!
*bern
Ok boomer
feel the burn get to the clinic😕
Glad to see some of the 60's spirit still kicking. Fuck, the 80's ruined us. And that's when I grew to adulthood.
Yuppies, coke-fueled Wall Street piracy, Reaganomics, less home for more money, moms having to go to work full time too just to pay the bills, and low-IQ marketeering everywhere.
Bernie has called himself a socialist for 40 years. If he tried to avoid the term now he would be attack as a hypocrite. One of Bernie's biggest strengths is his consistency.
I THOUGHT HE REFERRED TO HIMSELF AS A SOCIAL DEMOCRAT, BUT THESE ARE ONLY LABELS. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE LOVE HIS POLICIES, CALL THEM WHATEVER YOU WANT
A lot of history’s worst people were consistent.
Exactly!
Not really, MEAN WHAT YOU SAY, SAY WHAT YOU MEAN... his idealism has aligned with socialism, but he's voted as a non socialist
@@johnedward3404 He has always referred to himself as a Democratic Socialist, but across the world Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism and Socialism are used pretty interchangeably. If you look at UK for instance even Tony Blair called himself a Socialist, and essentially everyone on the left used Socialist/Democratic Socialist, in other countries it is different.
*Watching this in 2022 because I like pain*
"Bloomberg is not evil" is a regrettable statement.
Lol...yeah, shouldn't have to utter that statement sincerely when discussing a public official...he certainly doesn't represent working class interests, that's for damn sure!
he probably remembered how Bloomberg helped him somehow.
He’s not evil he’s a capitalist
@@guyguy7634 Obviously not. No capitalist supports Big Business or collusion with government forces, and Bloomberg loves to do. Capitalism is against those agendas.
Love the phrasing of this comment, haha.
Well, Chris Matthews is partly right: his income bracket loses. Literally everyone else wins.
Loses? Matthews and other rich people only have to wait a little longer to buy that 4th house or longer yacht. Losing for the rest of us is the loss of our house, and debt that we can't pay for decades. Those rich crybabies will only be inconvenienced. But i agree with you.
About time and not by much anyways. They are whining over money they don't need nor will miss when everything is said and done.
@@rsync9490 Who are you to say what they need? Maybe the people with that money know how to disperse it best? Does anyone know what Carnegie did with his money? What Gates and Buffet will do with theirs? Am I alone in acknowledging that money is not finite? I doubt either of the men in this debate would disagree with this statement.
Socialist/communist
If you are middle class and not completely riddled with illness you will be significantly poorer
"The current Medicare isn't as RADICAL as what Sanders is proposing"
Dude, be real. Just say old Medicare isn't as GOOD as what we're proposing.
word
Hes a sniveling weasel, thats why
Just remember that whatever social program the current group of criminal scum implement, for every $1.00 they take in, they only give $0.01 back, spend $0.85 on POINTLESS USELESS WARS (that's why they are trying to restart the cold war, Russia Russia Russia!!!) and the 14 cents that is left over - they put that in their pocket.
Our government is too criminal to be trusted with ANY social programs. Reduce the Federal government's budget by 80%, increase the tax revenues for STATES, and let the state governments implement the programs - because our federal government is nothing but a criminal syndicate. You think giving the mafia more money to implement a social program is a good idea - they're just going to steal it.
@@mannyortiz3656 HATING troll you're SAD!
@@mannyortiz3656 No, he's on our side, when most of the country is not. Please, can we be smart and see beyond our own nose? United we stand...
"by than standard Denmark is centrist."
"right."
lmaoooo based Wolff
yeah he wasnt wrong
No, Wolff is a dishonest snake. Krugman supports many of Bernie's policies.
@@synchronium24 Why’s Wolff a snake?
Yes, delusion is based
how is him admitting to being wrong based?
Krugman supports a "nordic model", Bernie supports a "nordic model"
Wolff then calls Krugman a centrist and Bernie a socialist although their views are mostly overlapping. That is delusional. He seems to not be able to think in actual positions but only in the abstract. Also how can an expert on socialism have what seems to be no idea about SocDems - The largest socialist movement of the 19th and 20th century - as well as their institutionalization. He seems to be thinking in an incredibly overtly simplictic political framework of "centrist", "leftist" and "right-winger" and loads them with a priori-like connotation. That is absurd. How do people celebrate that man? He's like a 'socialist' Jordan Peterson whose credence does not stem from his arguments but from his position of authority and identification.
I'm 63 year's old and I'm voting for Bernie.
I'm 66 and I'm with you!
40 year old black man Bernie all the way
Bravo Zach convince others about Bernie.
Thank you both. I'm 40 and a retired Army officer and combat veteran. I was a long-time conservative and my father is a leader in the John Birch Society. About eight years ago I began to see what capitalism has done to people and my views changed. I'm now a huge Bernie Sanders supporter and my family can't stand it. Little do they know, I want Bernie to win for their sake. I have insurance from Tricare and the VA...they don't go to the doctor because they can't afford it. Fox News has brainwashed half of America.
Gen Xer here and Im over joyed for the opportunity to finally have an old school FDR Democrat in the White House BERNIE❤️
I loved that look on Krugman's face when Wolffe said Krugman's having to defend a centrism that's now being rejected. Priceless.
That's cause what Wolfe said was BS. Wolf is nothing but an ideologue, trotting out the same old leftist boilerplate.
@@paulkern7229 Yep. Wolfe (and Sanders) think that Sanders current political success is some sort of magical "movement" which will usher in their utopia.
That look on Krugman's face was astonishment and the ridiculousness.
If you want a revolution, take to the streets and get ready to bleed and draw blood in return. That is the only way that happens, and it almost always doesn't turn out well. If you want progress, it will be frustratingly incremental and backed up by people who have more than slogans and grand promises.
@@travcollier Yes, the storming of the bastille was simply an act of frustrating, incremental progress. There were also no antecedents in the form of intellectuals, politicians, political movements, groups etc etc.
Look, true revolutions don't happen over night. And Incremental progress is also rarely how human history changes. The new deal, for example, was a rare detente between capital and labor. And FDR was almost overthrown if you believe in the "business plot," which is not a wild conspiracy. Wolfe understands something you clearly don't. You start with spreading the ideals, you label the enemy, you organize the movement, it grows, and then things do change. Like you say, sometimes in ugly ways, sometimes not. But the masses of people suffering under the current dispensation don't really care about that.
I'm sure you'll tell me all about how horrible the terror was in the case of the french revolution as a riposte. I offer you Mark Twain's quote below to nip that BS in the bud:
“THERE were two “Reigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror-that unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.”
@@paulkern7229
"That's cause what Wolfe said was BS. Wolf is nothing but an ideologue, trotting out the same old leftist boilerplate."
You idiot. Krugman is a tried-and-true supporter of the Clinton/Obama wing of the Democratic Party--in other words, the wing that the last two times it took the Oval Office carried water for the Wall Street, the Pentagon, and the national security/police state apparatus their entire presidencies. He thinks that his support for Obamacare--a plan modeled on one conceived as a "market-based" alternative to "socialist" plans by the right-wing Heritage Foundation--marks him as of the left, which is a sure sign that he's a centrist.
@@alexk7942 You are correct that incremental progress is not how change typically occurs in human history. Though you should note that for the vast majority of history, the vast majority of humans were ruled by kings, priests, or other sorts of authoritarian oligarchs. Funny you mention the French Revolution, because the intellectual core of that revolution is what I am genuinely most afraid we are losing.
Power gets power and $ gets $. There is no "solving" that big problem, there is only a continual fight against it. Those offering simple solutions to complex problems are lying or deluded.
As much as you and more than a few other people seem to like the idea of revolution, I would much rather continue our remarkably long and historically anomalous run of making progress without those horrors and the quite probably outcome of ending up worse than where we started.
I really don't mind people who genuinely think Sanders would make a better POTUS than any of the other Dem candidates, but I do object strongly to the masses who *feel* it without much thinking. Authoritarians have an intrinsic advantage playing that sort of game, and the next bullshitting demagogue to get elected may be competent in their malevolence.
Even if you know nothing of socialism, every American knows the inequities of capitalism.
Is it about forcing equality, or allowing freedom?
Vanessa Costa , in both cases the terms become - in the minds of their detractors - the opposite of what they should be.
So, it is either ignorance that causes this, or it is deliberate, conscious, malicious distortion/inversion.
A classic example outside politics - but in religion - would be the Crusaders mass murdering both Muslims and Jews, while claiming to be the representatives of Christ.
A significant portion of those that know of said inequities don't know that it's due to capitalism run amok.
@@RandroidPrime What do you mean by capitalism run amok? What do you see?
SPEAKING AMERICAN It should be about an equilibrium, which provides for the best economic and personal outcomes for the most people. That’s how to build a healthy society.
It saddens me that we missed this opportunity and that Bernie just gave up so easily.
He didn't just give up so easily. Most older democrats voted for Biden, and he won fair. I know it's harsh, I'm also sad.
But remember, the Political Revolution is eternal. We are the Revolution, and we should continue to fight for Progressive Policies in this country.
@@rishnayak4692 I'll continue up to push for sure but not through the democratic party.
Listening to Dr. Wolff restores me to sanity
I don't know. Seems like a agonistic hack.
Niclas Johansson okay boomer
@@d34dmagg0tz haha, okay! I just think that the way he argues is fails in grace and sportsmanship. He likes to define socialism in the vaguest way possible. And the he criticise people for not liking the term when the term has meant government control over all or most industries, and also somehow includes capitalist systems.
@@niclasjohansson5992 - Wolff defines socialism very clearly, "Democracy in the workplace". It's the name of his channel. Everytime he talks about socialism, he says "democracy in the workplace".
@@niclasjohansson5992 That’s because there are different traditions of socialism, different interpretations. The point of the debate is not to discuss what those are, it’s to talk about why Bernie calls himself a socialist.
I absolutely agree with employees being on the boards especially if the government is subsidizing their business
I also think that if their company is donating to political candidates, employees should have a say on who it goes to.
I agree with it in general. Don't see why in a supposedly democratic society that economics should be a democracy-free-zone. Democracy for politics, dictatorship for the workplace. It's not like typical boards of directors make wonderful decisions anyway (take a look at this world).
bellowman1 Right, except that we should not allow companies to make political donations. We really need to reverse the Citizens United decision. There is no rational reason to consider a corporation the same as a person.
The government is not the people. The government is just another corporation, except it has the right to throw you in jail if you don’t want to buy what its rich staff wants to sell you, for the price they want to get from you.
@@777jones so since the government doesnt represent the people, which is what it's supposed to do, are you working on a revolution?
Paul Krugman: " I can't see what the point is..."
Meanwhile 40% of Americans can't afford a $400 dollar emergency
exactly. Stock market, all time high. People have no money. What else do you need to know?! The corporations have mastered the game of keeping all the money and not paying people enough to keep going. People who are comfortable financially right now should find it very curious that Bernie is running the table when the economy is at "an all time high". You don't have to be a rocket scientist or nobel economist to know shit is fucked up.
@Sudhir Kakar How did you figure that?
@Sudhir Kakar "behaviours and choices" we can't all choose to be born with a daddy who gives us a million dollars, mate
@Sudhir Kakar exactly...and youd think they cudda found an economist that knew the difference between chicken schiff and chicken salad
@Sudhir Kakar you are not a system thinker. if you're running a business, or an organization. and 40% of your org is on the verge of failure, especially 40% of 330 million, the system has a problem. I'll give you an example, if you ran a business, and your entire sales staff was making no money, you can't just tell them they all suck and call it good. If you have a software company and 40% of the time there is catastrophic underperformance in product delivery.? You tweak the system. 1%,2% blame it on people. 40%, its a system problem.
Wolff later commented on this saying Krugman was uncomfortable the entire debate, including before the cameras were on and they were just speaking to one another.
He later concluded it was because Krugman knew too little about the history of socialism. He had praise for Paul’s intellect, but also noted he, like so many other capitalist establishment economists over the last 3-4 decades grew up completely dismissing all socialism in the shadow of the Cold War.
who loves their private insurance company--not me!
Me neither.
Don't forget that besides paying your health insurance, you also pay for Medicare as it gets taken off your paychecks automatically 😉
You've never experienced a 'public' Insurance company...you think they'd be any different? You're PAINFULLY naïve.
I DO. but i my famly isnt insured. INSURE MY FAMILY AND LET ME KEEP MY ACUPUNCTURE
And for no reason, my out pocket went up $1000 to a total of $5000this Year
I feel Wolf is arguing with zombie krugman.
SHUT UP NAZI!!!!
@@jamesfiegel9675 you on crack? xD
Hey Commie... Shut Up :))
Old people who care about the future of their kids and grand children vote for Bernie Sanders!
Why?
@@captainhaire Because his policies put the Working class first in every field. Because his policies take the money from the oversea pockets from the rich and puts it back into the poor's, as it should be. Because if america doesn't wake up and join the "Civilised" countries of the world its gonna crumble under the weight of its own poverty.
The US is currently run like a corporation where its employees are treated like dirt.
Thats not the kind of country you want to leave your children and grand children with.
DargorV Then he sounds like every other politician. Also you just inadvertently aligned his with Trumps policies. Bernie is far far left. Not a critique. Just the truth. No “civilized” country is so far left. In a nutshell why don’t you, yourself practice what he preaches. More than likely you’ll be very successful if you follow simple guidelines. Then you can participate instead of counting on someone else to use force to do it.
DargorV Also I hate to break it to you, but you are encouraging force. That’s what laws do. All of them. You preach about being civilized when you want to impugn and bend arms because you probably think it beats the alternative. No one at Amazon or Walmart is forcing me (and you) to purchase from them. Is there collusion? Damn right. But no true free market capitalist collided with the government.
@@captainhaire Bernie is not 'far far' left, he's center left, if you think otherwise.. you are way too far right and soon to fall into the precipice of fascism, you've been warned
They should re-title this "Three Socialists discuss the pros and cons about naming their ideology honestly".
RIP Bernie Sanders Campaign.
@cDb You're right. I have therefore upvoted myself!
Paul Krugman is running out of arguments.
It's not easy arguing against Richard Wolff. Actually I can't see anyone can do that.
@Sudhir Kakar haha salty
Man, I remember a time when Krugman didn't come across as a disingenuous establishment hack.
No Crumble. By God, you have a fantastic memory! sadly for him... things have changed. And "the times are a changin' ".
He enjoyed the glow of the early Obama years like so many neoliberal hacks. Their time is coming to a close...this is all they do now, is whine about labels, instead of dealing with substance. I don't need a lesson on how communism worked in the 1930s to know our system gives too much leverage to corporations, and too little towards workers. We need fundamental change to change those scales in a meaningful way: America is a big ship with a large engine...it takes a lot to move very little.
That was prior to 2015. Since then, and until now, he’s been doubling down on corporate centrism. Only now is he trying to obfuscate between the terms “centrism” and “socialism”, because he knows his ideology of centrism is finished.
What a Boomer... We need old people. You had your chance to improve the world and your greed was more important. Go away.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@ITHEREONETHATHASNT Gollum
No I won't go away, I'm staying to fight for Nadar's (Bernie's) vision.
Lol so savage
@@wisconsinfarmer4742 we love Nadar. He too is a hero. An underappreciated hero!
I think its so dishonest for the US to even attempt to make a false analogy comparison to Denmark or any European country about Socialism! Denmark did not have the same History of Chattel slavery and Jim Crow exclusion that we have had. There is no comparison between the essentially White homogenous society of Denmark or Sweden with the racial and ethnic heterogeneity of North America that has rendered Socialism a practically impossible economic policy to achieve. Even FDR's New Deal that people love to trot out as an example of "benign" socialism was fraught with Racism in its execution, ensuring that the majority of Afro Americans never benefited from the New Deal's policies and programs.
You can definitely see Krugman is very nervous with the Mighty Legend, Professor Wolff...😏
"I'm not a centrist", Paul Krugman. Continues to argue for a public option for those that want it. You can't get more centrist than this.
That's what they have in Europe.
Private option for those that want it makes much more sense. Like in Germany
Jesus Aguilar that position seems centrist members of the DemocracyNow! audience because you folks are a million miles to the left of the average US voter
It didn’t sound like he was for a public option to me
Jesus A …… After the Allies defeated the Nazi Germans and Imperial Japanese in WW2, one of the UNCONDITIONAL TERMS OF SURRENDER was that the new governments of both nations MUST GUARANTEE a comprehensive, universal, National Heath Care System . Both countries did, and today their citizens are among the healthiest on the planet, with Japan having the longest life expectancy . Meantime the US's has DECLINED .
Richard Wolff 🙌🙌🙌🙌amazing! Everyone should hear this guy, great interview!
He is so smart I love listening to his interviews and lectures.
Everyone should hear him, to see what a quack he is. I make an effort to listen to him as much as possible for the off chance that one day he might make sense. But the guy obviously has no real world experience running a business so his understanding of economics is purely theoretical, which is why he dreams of a socialist Utopia.
I feel Bernie Sanders uses the term democratic socialism not for accuracy so much as to normalize talking about socialism
Bingo
"How do we dominate and rule the masses? Fear fear fear fear!" - Michael Moore
The world is going to end. Everyone is trying to steal from you except for me, daddy government. Give me all your money and I'll give you a fraction of it back so you can be safe from the big bad world, which by the way is about to end in 12 years.
And both Wolff and Krugman want a non-consensual, authoritarian government based in fear. Wolff with state ownership of the economy, Krugman with state manipulation of the economy through the federal reserve. They should’ve had an Austrian economist in here.
Meredith Simkins Hayes democratic socialism is authoritarian? Can I please have what you’re smoking?
@Carlos Rodriguez socialism has never been implemented through willingness, always violence 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔 makes one think doesn't it
Moore is a phoney
Peace and much respect to Professor Wolff 💯
Mr Krugman seems afraid. Mr Wolff seems confident. Mr Krugman plugged his own book twice. Mr Wolff didn't talk about his book. Who seems most honest?
I fucking love that Richard Wolff exists and his perfect commentary
Taylor Smith fucking on point!!!
He sometimes points out problems accurately before offering ludicrous solutions. But even some of the 'problems' he points out are not as he says they are (e.g., notions of the poor getting poorer as living standards have generally increased over time). At least he has acknowledged the issue of inflation and cronyism favouring powerful people with political influence.
Ahhh, Krugman's argument distills down to “people are too stupid to understand what a democratic socialist is, so Bernie shouldn't use that word".
Oners82 Yeah, I don’t understand the incessant defense of using the term. As you mentioned, he isn’t even a socialist.
@Oners82 Exactly!!!!!
Bernie is a social Democrat not a democratic socialist
Jay Paul I like Bernie, but he is literally not a socialist. For him to be considered such, he would have endorse the changing of the means of production, and mode of production. To my knowledge, he still supports the capitalist system, but wants to add more social safety nets.... Also, I’m not even a socialist, I just understand what socialist means when they say “Socialism”
@@solnstinct7076 thank you
Krugman completely lost me with the line: “Bloomberg isn’t evil...”
@Nota Bene : Bloomberg is evil with his frisk law is evil. He is not a good person to be running our country.
Labels like "evil" are just not very helpful to the debate. The question is not the personal qualities or views of each billionaire, the question is should policies be put in place to redistribute some of their wealth though taxation and ensure greater protection for their workers and the environment.
Yeah & also when he lied about what Sanders is, he is a Democratic Socialist. Does Krugman takes us for fools? Yes.
I consider Bloomberg evil because of the stop and frisk law. It reveals he has very few core values other than the illusion that he is running New York effectively so he can get re-elected.
A moral person would pause and say “does this violate human rights”.
@Nota Bene I consider Bloomberg's proposed solution to the healthcare question--deny healthcare to the sick and elderly--to be an example of evil.
Say NO to "Slow Joe Biden."
BERNIE 2020.
Yeah vote heart attack burnout. Too old too lead . The youth vote is his?wtf.
your nickname is right out of the trump playbook. don't play that game
@@eleanormedina6703 you realize that he's the same age as biden, right? and that he does indeed get way more of the youth vote than biden?
Outch now - stuck with him 😛
Rip
I'm an old person and I love socialism. Capitalism isn't democracy, never has been.
Thank you! The disingenuous conflation of governmental systems with economic ones has always set my teeth on edge.
First of all Lori, if you live in America you DON'T live in a democracy. You live in a Constitutional Republic. Fine out what that is and get back to me.
Socialism isn't good. A social market is better.
Bravo Richard Wolff's spot on.
I wish he was as uncomfortable with sweatshops as he is about the label socialist
Brilliant post!
thanks for saying that... Paul Krugman is the hardliner among the sweatshop advocates i.e. the hardliner among the hardliner, his positions (regarding sweatshops) should've pushed Krugman into the dark corners of academia where the likes of Larry Summers dwell to await their tenure in hell... the failure of the intellectuals to keep Krugman away from the progressive „henhouse" is something too depressing to contemplate... however, I think the very reason why Krugman got his „tenure" at the NYT *are* his positions regarding sweatshops!!! my „friends" from the NYT really pulled themselves the *Hulk Krugman* on board, as a super heavyweight sledgehammer to crash the spirit of the critics, haters etc of global capitalism (aka globalization) so hard that they never stand up again.
Wow, 26 minutes of nonstop quality talking. I'm impressed.
That is why this show is gold
Stop trying to measure healthcare by how many or few people are left out.
For those left out to bankruptcy or death? It doesn't matter. Covering everyone is a must.
best comment in the whole thread, kudos
If someone has the money to get an insurance and does not do it its his/her fucking problem ," free " healthcare should ONLY provided to the poor .
Paul Krugman: "Why does Bernie call himself socialist? I am for his policies as well"
Also Paul Krugman: "I support everything Bernie proposes, but I don't want to pursue any of it because old people who already enjoy it wont understand."
There you go Paul, that's the difference. Centrists say they are for those things. Socialists actually fight for them.
You can be for the principles of the plans and not their implementation.
Well said. Just a fact! And that's exactly the difference.
@@SAM-ft9jd By your logic anything is possible. Up is down and left is right. No problem, because the concepts don't need to be implemented.
"I like his policies, I'm just embarassed by them."
You're all insane. Bernie isn't a socialist. That's the crux of what Krugman's saying. I haven't seen anyone in these comments refute that.
Amy Goodman that was great reporting, concise, direct to the point, totally fair and balanced reporting. Kudos to Democracy Now.
Jesus M. Ortiz she’s one of the best
In the west, many people regularly rummage through spattered bins and trash cans, with restaurants on every corner in the background. In the USSR, restaurants were clearly more modest, but it was difficult to imagine that a Soviet person would want to climb into the trash can, despite the more modest average salary of the population.
I support Bernie Sanders.
I'm not listening to a college dropout.
Move to north Korea!
@Cristiano Silva Are the military, police force, fire departments, farm subsidies, oil subsidies, NASA, public schools, national parks, highways, and public libraries good?
I'm 76 years old and I have spent all I can supporting Bernie. He is exactly what this country needs now!!
Thank you Juli. It took the collusion of the DNC, the RNC and the press to defeat Bernie and all that indicates that we must continue the struggle.
@@marclawson2536 And expecially Jim Clyborn
Thank you, you're amazing
No refunds!
55 and likewise. Let common sense prevail
*B E R N I E 2 0 2 0 (and give Wolff a job in the cabinet, too!)*
It’s wildly hilarious to me that the host legitimately thought Bernie was going to be the nominee
Krugman is operating from a place of fear,.. It seems Krugman "in theory" wants the same things, but would rather try small changes that the opposition will accept [which means doing whatever THEY want where you really get nothing], and be dishonest in the labeling to avoid them using those names we are supposed to be so afraid of [which they will use anyway and was baked in to our culture due to things like McCarthyism]. Operating from that fear is exactly why the right wing has steam rolled over the left, and effectively converted them to republicans that are just not as racist, basically making both parties neoliberal. This has left us with no real left party for quite some time now, and just now we are starting to try to take it back [since no 3rd party has any chance in the current configuration].
You know what? Regan scared the the shit out of these people.
Hahaha what a beautiful example of projection
Jill K …….. Spot on . Richard Wolff is correct here, in that Bernie Sanders has demystified the false narrative, one of the 'divide-and-conquer' strategies of fear and confusion of the right; and is effectively defanging it . Consistency . Krugman, like many, is REACTING to what he THINKS are in the minds of others ( exactly what Republicans intend and desire ), instead of using his considerable talents with words TO PERSUADE .
@@JoeyFiveandDimes Lets not give Bernie Sanders too much credit. Its the economy. Things have gotten so band around the world that the lies and proproganda are having no effect. People are just voting for anything different because they are like " What do we have to loose? " They already have very little and even what little they have is slipping away.
@ Jill Ketten . I disagree with the part that the so called Left got steamed rolled. They have always been there but unless you were watching alternative media like Democracy Now 20-25 years ago you would not of known. The tv uses fake Left like the clintons and obammas.
Richard Wolff for Secretary of Re-education
I think it's great this conversation is taking place, and Chris Matthews is out of his 5 million dollar annual salary's mind.
All these old rich people spreading fear that Socialist = Communism is pretty tedious. They then go on to talk about Denmark without the slightest clue as to whats actually going on over there, they do the same all the time with Canada, because if there's one thing the so-called US experts like to do is talk about other countries they don't know squat about.
That period of time was very hopeful. I miss it.
"I'm not a centrist... Obamacare did a lot of good."
Sorry, that's, at BEST, a centrist opinion (or a right-wing opinion; take your pick Paul). The ACA was created by the Heritage Foundation and to not call it what it really was (a public subsidy to private corporations and the wealthy) is exactly what we would expect from a centrist. Were there tiny aspects of the ACA that were good? Sure. But to say that it wasn't all bad is like saying a nuclear weapon does some good because it's opened up more land to be developed. Maybe that's hyperbolic, but maybe I see the ACA for what it really was; nothing but a giveaway to the 1% from the 99% (socialism for the rich), which is completely in-line with what both parties have been doing in this country for at least the last 40 years.
I used to think Paul Krugman was further left than he really was for the fact that he supported Obama in '08 and '12. The problem is, and I didn't see it at the time, I was incorrect in believing that Obama was ever leftist in almost any sense of the word (so the premise for my judgement of Krugman was entirely off-base). In hindsight, Obama was everything that defined what we see as a centrist now; change rhetorically only, stocked his cabinet full of CitiGroup-approved cronies, kept the pay-to-play scheme almost fully intact for corporations and the wealthy, and maintained 99% of the original status quo otherwise. I want to say so much more about Obama and express my utter contempt for the myriad number of ways that he fooled me into supporting him, but I'll stop there before my opinions of him get critical.
I hope DemocracyNow brings both of these two economists back for more debates; the level of debate was better than 99% of mainstream media and the two of them just barely scratched the surface on these topics.
andrew Herriges Amen brother. I entirely agree. The center cannot and will not hold.
I was never able to afford healthcare until the ACA. Now I can.
@@aaron2709 Medicare for All. We have to fight or everyone.
Hold on though... I hate the ACA, it was a cobbled together mess full of corporate goodies that didnt control costs and yada yada yada... but it's undeniable that it did a lot of good. Everyone left of centre agrees with that
@@kevinjohnson6331 I agree but I don't think Bernie will get it done.
"Bloomberg isn't evil..." Sure about that, bud?
He is the closest thing to evil incarnate.
All politicians are evil except for the few like ron paul who actually speak out over the government incidious acts
@@hermitthefrog468 IDK much about Ron Paul but he seemed pretty decent. Rand on the other hand. What's your opinion on Bernie?
@@sonjaleesloth i can see through bernies lies and his policies he wants to enact are going to be detrimental. Ron Paul put out a bill that failed which was to Audit the Federal Reserve and Bernie denied it and claims to be "anti-establishment" now adays you can't even get into the seat of election without being pro establishment. But Benie's policies of free healthcare and free school are going to increase taxes dramatically and we will most likely see massive inflation which will raise taxes even more as we all make more nominally but have to give the government more and more. I think politics at this point is stupid and people are looking at these people as if they decendants from god and that they have all the answers when in all actuallity they aren't the brightest and have no reguard for economics
@@hermitthefrog468 "i can see through bernies lies and his policies he wants to enact are going to be detrimental"
"But Benie's policies of free healthcare and free school are going to increase taxes dramatically and we will most likely see massive inflation which will raise taxes even more as we all make more nominally but have to give the government more and more"
What are you on?
I get the distinct impression that Krugman has excellent private health care.
Main thing he has job security, financial stability and livable income that bit any ff health care. Especially in USA. All ills from insecurity. And USA we number 1 at that. Every thing else goes from here.
Good point - these people are the reason Trump got elected - they live in a bubble of wealth and fat pensions -,they are such phonies
@@alexpodolsky8980 uh no not at all, America actually scores one of the lowest in economic mobility, stability, job stability, healthcare, average income, etc when compared to other developed countries.
The number of people who confuse social welfare or state capitalism with socialism is too high
"Socialism" is upping his stresslevels xD
Red scare tactics were quite effective
These people live in a parallel universe...Bernie is clearly talking about social democracy (the "brotherhood of people" that FDR first started the fire and MLK ran with it to Civil Rights and beyond) but these dummies can't get past the brainwashing from their youth, which taught us that communism (a terrible economic system) was rooted in socialistic ideas. While that had some grains of truth (in that both champion the dignity and primacy of the worker), it would be like saying milk is bad because it builds strong bones for rapists...you can link a good thing (worker's rights, and strong unions) to a bad thing (state control of businesses) and say they must be one and the same.
Younger voters see past the propaganda of the late 20th century on the ideas of Marx: he understood the plight of workers in a sharply-toothed capitalist system. Neoliberals like Krugman keep their heads in the sand at their peril: their opinions will be thrown out by the next generation, and their power and public voice curtailed. No more parroting corporate-speak.
@@bernlin2000 When Social Security was introduced by FDR, most all the Democrats who supported that government policy were denounced and smeared as communists or Red traitors, usually by Republican Party hacks. Read some of the old newspapers back in the 1940's and '50's. It was a red scare tactic before McCarthyism became really aggressive and destroyed a lot of innocent people's careers. The Republicans are still trying to destroy Social Security by privatizing it. Trump is doing this secretly behind your back.
It’s about education levels. Once you read about Socialism in USSR, Cuba, China, Venezuela, arguably German National Socialism too, you should be scared. But if you cannot read, then it sounds nice (to some angry people, at least).
Is Bernie a Socialist? Then so am I! And BTW I’m an old guy, lol.
@Fred Davis Do you have an IQ? Try to get what Imran means.
People resort to ad hominem when they are immature, ignorant, or both...
@Winter Blues LOL...LOL.. this is so bad, its funny!!! LOL!!
Absolutely. Democratic Socialism is Capitalism with boundaries. They hate the idea of seniors even getting Social Security (which we worked and paid for!), yet so many are totally okay with the Corporate Welfare Capitalism!
Sanders isn't a socialist.
I'm for universal healthcare, I'm for deficit spending, I'm for universal childcare..... congratulations, Paul... you're a Democratic Socialist.
David Heffron - He’s only for those things when paneling on Democracy Now as Bernie is slated to win the nomination. Under any other circumstances, Paul Krugman is a corporate centrist.
Even the idea of a "Nobel Peace prize" Do people even know who the Nobel family was and is? They are and where the Rockefeller's of Europe. The prize is essentially the elites Bishop hat that they place on people they appoint for reasons and motivations that align with theirs.
Obama signed off on a Kill list every single day as president, Did he put his kill list next to his peace prize? Or use the peace prize as a paper weight for his kill list? We live in a crazy time.
David Heffron He's actually more of a social democrat or a New Deal/Keynesian social liberal, which the right has cleverly manoeuvred into seeming like far-left positions... only for that to ultimately backfire when decades of neoliberal economics and varying degrees of social conservatism and authoritarianism have made those things look extremely appealing regardless of labels.
He's too much a coward and trying to play 3 dimensional chess, when really its why the DNC is now indistinguishable from the RNC as far as economics goes.
Being a coward doesn't appear to work. Being plain spoken does, even if it requires attempting to cure people of brain washing media that caused a type of Stockholm syndrome.
Good god he's a Keynesian. Do any of you guys ever read his papers or what
Wow I didn't know MLK mentioned socialism for the rich and rugged individualism for the poor. Hell ya. Im going to use that bit of truth
Eisenhower, a conservative republican, warned us of the military-industrial complex AND continued New Deal programs.
Getting your teeth, ears, and eyes taken care of through Medicare is "radical" Mr. Krugman?? Can I just kick this guy in the nuts right now?
Was Bernie purpose is far beyond what any country in the entire world offers right now fyi. Perhaps you research the places bernie idealizes and their details
MEDICARE not ''most popular'' nor is it ''socialize medical care''. if DOCTORS REFUSE TO ACCEPT it, you have NO INSURANCE. blind & toothless is NOT HEALTHY FOR SENIORS.
Honestly...we were sold a box of lies as children. America is the most backwards post-industrial nation on the planet. That we have to make our case to oligarchs like Bloomberg as to why everyone should be able to receive medical care for ailments is a national disgrace...Bloomberg is a cruel, calculating man. He doesn't belong on any national stage.
@@yarazooom So, under medicare for all you think doctors will refuse to accept medicare? Perhaps they all will switch to veterinary medicine?
Rascal Why would doctors refuse to accept it? Do doctors refuse to accept it now? Also have you read the bills from a doctor where a private insurance preferred provider network have had to write off their charges. It seems to me a doctor would want to be paid. It seems to me they should be tired of getting pushed around by private insurance companies.
Paul Krugman: "Far be it for me to defend Chris Mathews"
Paul Krugman: (Proceeds to defend Chris Matthews)
*Chris (takes one to know one 😛)
These are 2 people “debating” on the same side of the issue
I'm suprised Krugman even went on Democracy Now.
he wants sell his book !!
If old people are afraid of the word "socialist" , then talk about the issues : M4A , Free education and so on . That is more important then the title .
Not to mention that they enjoy lots of socialists programs like Social Security and Medicare. So what is good for the goose is good for the gander!
I don't know why Bernie makes it so hard for himself by mislabeling himself as a Socialist. He often refers to Denmark. Denmark is NOT a socialist country. It's a social Democracy. Another term he could use would be "social market economy". IMHO those labels would be a) more accurate to his policies and b) less controversial.
@@mrm7058 Maybe Sanders is a DemSoc, but he knows that he cant oush DemSoc policies in the US so he pushes SocDem because its a compromise that can be pushed through. Also by doing that the Overton Window gets psuhed towards DemSoc.
He also never really goes around calling himself or his policies socialist. He just actually owns the label when asked because he may actually be socialist or he simply doesnt/didnt know the difference and it may be too hard to distnace himself from it ow.
@@RandomPerson-yq1qk I agree with your assessment of Bernie Sanders.
I and many of my "old" people hear Bernie and know what unfettered Capitalism has done to our society since post WW ll.
Our Nation then had equal opportunity for most Americans and progressed to "trickle down" blarney and less thriving now.
The younger voters dwell on the term "socialist" like they did "bogey man" (thank you persuasive corporate media).
Don't fear BERNIE SANDERS' platform. He's been consistent since his peers (like moi !) were in college. He's SAFE & good 4 U !
Krugman says that 'billionaires aren''t inherently evil' completely failing to engage Wolff's point that they are a systematic abberation. It is not particularly a comment on their personal morals, but rather their role in the system of accumulating and keeping hold of a great deal of wealth that could be put to far more good than whatever philanthropic crumbs they throw on the side. None of that goes into the real big stuff, which is infrastructure and services...not just R&D.
Man, this feels like it was from a lifetime ago.
From Europe: sorry to hear that Americans still think of ‘communism’ and ‘Stalin’ when hearing the word ‘socialism’. They seem to have missed what has been going on in Europe during the last 100 years. Socialists have built the social welfare state. It has been that successful that its accomplishments, such as universal health care, are now taken for granted across the political spectrum.
From Norway; sorry to see europeans not understanding Europe. Thats pure bs mate, they are doing all they can to dismantle it in Europe. Its hated and underfunded (ofcourse elites and politicians dont say it aloud)
Karen Geurts People in the USA are incredibly brainwashed by the schools and the mass media. Socialism was a vibrant movement in the US up until the First World War but then the Russian Revolution occurred and the US government undertook to eradicate socialism in the USA. After WW2, the assault on socialism was intensified and the word “socialism” was equated with Stalin and Mao. We have not been able to even talk about socialism publicly for nearly a hundred years. Sanders is changing that and it’s very important for us.
American CEOs and bankers love socialism. They take funny money at home and are in joint ventures with state owned firms in China, like GM with communist party-owned SAIC Motor, and GM took the bailout cash. Socialism is awesome. That’s why the rich don’t want to share.
Socialist built this country it was called unions.
@Al Clark It's part of it, no matter whatever you say or think.