Mate as mentioned previously you don’t need to spend crazy money on a new van to have a great trip Around Australia. Nothing wrong with a JB or Jayco they will do the job comfortably. 👍
I think it comes down to what they want in a van, as per previous video. So while the jayco may well be cheap, it might not have the features they want in their van.
You are right, but also consider they will have two quite young kids. I think less things to set up and pack down every time they move camp would make it easier.
That's correct, and this is usually around 9 - 10% of the van weight, this is where most people come undone, so you will more than likely have to add another 250+ kg to your vehicle gvm all depending on the manufacturer
Haven't forgotten about ball weight, that's all factored in. As is axle load limits. It'll all be explained in more detail in next weeks vid - just didn't want to get bogged down in explaining all these things in this video.
Thanks Cam, I've always been very interested and intrigued by weights and logistics! We run bang on all our limits which isn't ideal. The amount of times I would of sold me left nut to be able to haul a tinny around Aus with us is up there. No tinny = No frozen Fish fillets in the feezer = less weight. Tiny = more fun, more fish, more smiles, more tucka, haha and I guess more weight..
Its a tough call! I wouldn't stress about running around on your limit, as long as you're under you are insured, and car/van manufacturers factor in big safety margins to minimise liability for themselves!
Take the boat with you. From watching your videos, you really enjoy using your boat during your trips. I imagine your children would love in time to go out with you fishing. As long as the van meets your key requirements, the additional weight is just nice to have items.
I do really enjoy fishing (despite and obvious lack of skills😂). Finding a van that meets those key requirements is the sticking point though! A lot less options available when we start looking at fullsize offroad family bunk vans under 2.8t ATM.
Bring the tinny (or a lighter one). Now you own one you're likely to regret not having one for the lap. You can experience so much more of Australia when you have a boat, and it makes for some cool experiences for the kids.
Love the tinny as a toy to explore cam…no brainer for me but i reckon mint idea to strip the canopy drawers etc to see if you can get the bigger van in tow. Love ya
Take the Tinny 100%. I’ve done a trip round oz and a mate came with a tinny on a part of the trip and some of the best memories are fishing. Kids will love the time out on the boat and also another activity to keep them/yourself occupied.
Our combined is 6020 20' full offroad Elross. Our Dmax 2018 with suspension upgrade bullbar n winch snorkel etc 2800. We removed draws n roofrack. So still 250kgs over. Not sure what else to loose. Most people are a lot worse than us, but still throwing unneeded stuff out . Good luck
Yeah I know i will.. But I've got to be realistic too! The tinny wont come off the roof at every campsite, and its only me that really wants it. The whole family will be in the van every night and ill kick myself if choosing a lighter construction van means dust ingress and cabinetry falling apart every time i take it on unsealed tracks!
Cam great work on the transparency of being concerned about weight and showing what affects your GVM and the actual figures. I've been 4WDriving and touring since the early nineties and it was something that no one took any notice of back then and likely till the last three or so years. I am being super fussy over my current build on accessories weight, to the point where I cant find a product that is light enough I am engineering and building it myself. And in few cases the builds are cost me a lot more money than many would be prepared to pay for the materials. But what we rarely keep in mind is that accessories are by and large a one time expense, if thought about why you need them, and how you will use it. Case in point my last vehicle ran a Dual battery system with a 100Ahr Lithium battery and no permanently connected solar panel. Yet, the lowest I saw the battery was 75%. This time around I am dropping back to a 50 AHr battery with a permanent connected solar panel. Total weight savings is 4Kg. I built the ute back canopy and saved over 70Kg. I also saved 22kg on the bull bar I chose. Many will say 22kg is nothing. Yet, it is 20 litres of water, that you cant de-hydrate and we need to stay alive. But what does make me think, all the time, is why people go for massive caravans. As a eight year old I was in my own tent when touring with my family. The length and height of these vans precludes access to areas like a lot of the Victorian High Country and NSW Great Divide National Parks. And you are paying so much extra in fuel to tow 2500kg than 1800kg, especially now that fuel is north of $2 per litre on the east coast. I would consider a smaller 3-4 berth single axle van (that is easier to maneuver both on and off the hitch) and maybe putting the kids in a double swag under the awning. Good luck with it all and Ill be watching with interest.
We've got a popup journey outback 16 1/2 ft. We've taken it over a lot of dirt roads, some pretty rough ones. The first thing I did B4 we used it was to get underneath and make sure all the service holes in the floor were properly sealed (a few missed spots were found). Still gets a little bit of dust in some cupboards. I'm about to put a pop up air vent (for horse floats etc) on the roof which will fix all that. Some overhead cupboards came a bit loose which wasn't too hard to fix. Some drawer slides. We now make a point of deflating the tyres. Makes a hell of a difference, as you know. Ours is 6 years service now. I'd say they are pretty good. A bit of general maintenance now and then, same with anything really. We are pretty happy with it. Hope this helps.
We are on the road ft and have JB Gator X, tows well off road, done 100's km off road nothing fallen apart yet, good functioning van for our needs. We have made some changes since purchase, Carafan & replaced stone guard with stone stompers. We purchased from Perth, recommend do your homework as dealer's only answer questions you ask. Recommend joining Facebook page for whatever van you're interested in before you sign up 😊
Take a Tinny Cam. It's a once in a lifetime trip. Great insight into your set-up. We all like creature comforts, but at what cost. You may regret it, sounds like your mind is already made up. Go with your gut feeling... Cheers Mark...
Nice Cam interesting to see how quick it adds up when I was setting up everything in the 62 I organised everything down the KG to keep it in line with GVM but I’m still going to have to have a look at a upgrade when we go for a bigger van down the track that’s future Brayden’s problem 😂
Haha i hear ya. When i bought the dmax I knew GCM was a limitation, but Tiff and I at that stage honestly never thought we would be in a van... A couple of kids really changed that haha
Don’t leave without a boat. We are 8 months into our lap and we have an EZY Topper 3.7m which is super light weight (stated weight is 48kg) and we tow a 21.5ft van with our dual cab cruiser. The weight dilemma is a common one for traveling families more than most people realize. The guys that make the EZY Topper do higher sided deeper v hulls as well if that’s what you’re looking for. I’ve had our boat offshore in the right conditions along with my wife and two kids and while it would be nice to have something with higher sides and a deeper v it’s all a compromise when you’re traveling as I’m sure you’re already aware. Happy to give you some more info on our setup and my weight research if you’re interested.
TAKE THE TINNY! You love it. The kids will love it. Gives you so many more options for adventures / content. Cheers for another great vid. Just joined the van gang, buying a 2010 Jayco Swan outback. Very keen to get a roof topper set up myself.
Looking good Cam and smart approach to weight management not just to stay legal but keep your loved ones safe and others on the road - towing over 3 tonnes is really a nervous road journey - but for versatility and to avoid those pondering moments when you regret not bringing the tinny I would go for a lower weight caravan, take the tinny and even try for a lighter one - then you will have a full adventure - John in SA
I made the mistake of buying the caravan first (sunseeker 2.7t empty) and am now having to decide on a car realising I need a land cruiser now but can’t afford one. 😩. I’m hoping the new ranger might be the saving grace. Good luck with the van hunt mate.
From a logical brain - with the lap planning how much of it will be "chasing coastlines" where boat can be used vs inland destinations? Maybe work out ball park percentage split of the two types of destinations then gauge weather you can forego having it on board or not? The magic number or percentage is something only you can really determine, but that might help you reach a decision. Also think of fishing charters etc in some areas to get you off shore fix in lieu of lugging it around. Perhaps if possible trade out the boat trailer for fold down/detachable dolly wheels to help drag it in and out of the water?
Hey Cam, Good info for anyone looking to do this... I've got a tinny on the roof and towing an 18ft Jayco. 3330 GVM on the Ranger and can only tow 2670. The Jayco has a tare of 2175 and had the upgraded payload to 600 and needed that due to upgrading the battery, solar system, water tanks etc. I'm right on my limit with weights. Mate, we love our Jayco. With everything on my list, tare, payload, dual axle, clearance, toilet & shower etc etc, we settled on the 17.53-3 and love it. Its semi-offroad and we take it everywhere. Hope that helps mate
Hi I have doing much the same thing with my 200 series & caravan the van is 1870 tare & 2,500 gvm LC has gvm upgrade to 3,650kg It's the rear axle load is close . The gvm vehicle upgrade is subtracted from the gvm .I think you might go close with 2,800kg van to the 6,000kg gcm. When you choose the new van make them weight it with you present some are over the compliance tare...tends to do your head in!! Good luck
Just something to think about. With the tinny your additional rear axle capacity is 144 kg. Tow ball weight actually accentuates this depending on the actual overhang. ie: 1 metre overhang with 2 metre wheelbase adds half the ball weight again to the rear axle (I think!) so 350 kg BW makes 525 kg to rear axle and 175 kg off steer (leverage effect). The winch does the reverse so leaving the winch on actually reduces rear axle weight slightly and helps to hold the steer on the ground (slightly) when towing. I realise it's all a bit academic when you exceed the ute GVM with only 118 kg BW but it will need considering when you shuffle stuff around. I feel your pain as I have just been through the whole weighing process myself. It's all surmountable but it can be a head spin finding a legal compromise.
So much to consider when buying a new van🤷🏼♀️. We moved from a Kedron (no WC, as you age you need this 😂) that was bloody heavy, to a Jayco Journey Outback. The Jayco hasn’t missed a beat, and we now have a loo 😎. We tow with a 76 cruiser so we have lots of towing ability but we think the less weight the better to tow with. Hope you figure it all out and find the perfect van. Stay safe . Love your videos❤️
I would leave the tinny at home as you can always fish off the banks and jetties and most places you can hire a boat or go on a charter (then you don't have to do all the boat cleaning 😉). So I would have a real good think about just how often on that trip would you really use it 🤔.
Take the tinnie mate! We have a heavier van and it is amazing but we are living it in, if your planning a lap over fulltime living a lighter van and more experience would be the way. Awesome set up you have either way, we are excited to see what you choose!
Take the tinny your not living in the van all day most of the time you are outside with the van you need a full size onsuite and good beds we never used to cook in the van I used to cook most meals in the Webber or on the fire .so for me a lighter van better fuel economy ,the van is really o place to sleep and have a tub and a place for the washing machine most of the time your outside under the awning in your outside lounge .a full size annex is handy if your staying in one place for a while to give you that extra room just my thoughts it worked very well for us our van was 19 ft just over two ton with the water in it.enjoy your lap🙂🙂
Some really good tips here about whether to take a tinny or not. I’m getting a GVM upgrade next week, will be interesting to see the weights with the roof top tent and awning etc.
I have 1 fresh water and 2 washing water tanks in the van, always travel with 1/4 full washing water saving 150kg on tow weight. I have 80L water tank and 80L aux diesel that I travel with 20L in each until I really need them to be full, again saving 120kg on 4WD weight. I pump any water needed at last location before spending a week or so away from replenishments. I have 500km range on standard tank towing, so only fill the aux when needed touring Australia and again not very often (GCR, Savannah Way Gulf track inc Lorella Springs, GGR all done without long range tank needed just topping up regularly.Your not going to tow the van across the Simpson) Just because you can load it up most of the time you wont need to.
Hi Cam, very interesting vid & your guys dilemma in new van/tinny I hope I can offer an option to ponder. Get the bigger caravan & lighter tinny. If it goes overweight... bummer but youse could hire a tinny if your camped up for a week somewhere . It’s a thought. All the best & thanks for sharing your knowledge & where youse are at
Cheers Rosalie, either way we'll pick the van, load it all up to touring weight and weigh it again to see if we've got the room to take a small/lighter tinny.
Hey mate , good to see your on to all your weights , I’ve recently done all ours and it’s quite surprising . We had to get a engineer to give us a ATM upgrade on the van so now we have a bit more payload. As you found out with your tinny , the weight is not what you were told when you purchased it. That is the same when looking for a van, the majority of vans aren’t weighed individually,they weigh a couple at the factory then they go off these weights for every van. Things can change in the builds , different materials used ,different appliances and of course anything you add to it, this adds to the weight. So whoever you purchase your van through just make sure they give you a up to date weight certificate that matches the compliance plates . We got caught out by this and once I got the tow rig and van weighed with the two water tanks full I found out we were over and we still had to put food and clothing in. We were just lucky that the van was built strong enough to get the ATM and GTM upgraded. It’s very common that what the compliance plates say is no where near what the true weight is . Hope this helps a bit . Good to see you putting this out there mate ,more people need to be aware of the legality of being overweight. Cheers 🤙
When someone talks weights its like opening a can of worms...I enjoyed it though, and as your ute is similar kerb weight and im looking at a similar set up soon with caravan, im really intrigued to see where your ends up with the GCM's etc.. Cam I reckon you and Tiff probably have a good idea of what you want from your lap of Oz, and if that entails a tiny, than take it, and go the lighter one. Dont not take it and regret it. Also remember the boat can give you access to some much greater fishing spots than you will get on land. Especially in Nth Aus. Another thought, dont forget to check the must do spots in your trip plan and access restrictions, as there are plenty of places you cant take vans, and will need the swags and cooking gear in the canopy. But again I'm sure you and Tiff will work out your key destinations. Just check you can take vans to them all, and if the boat is really worth taking or not.. Im glad its not my gead ache, but im sure I'd be up at nights thinking about this stuff too..
The van will be your home so make sure you are really happy with it . We learnt the hard way having to change vans every few years to cater for our growing boys. You could always get a blow up boat 😂😂😂.
Yeah thats good advice. We know the tinny will only come off the roof when we're on the coast and the weather is right. Whereas we will be in the van every day!
Another great video Cam. Definitely take a tinny as you’ll regret it if you don’t. Also water is the biggest limiting factor when free camping, so I’d keep the water holding capacity in the car for when you need it. JB Gators are awesome vans, but being single axel do have a lot of ball weight . We elected to go with a duel axel Dirt Roader which is a little heavier tare wise but still well under 3T fully loaded and the ball weights under 200kg. Good luck with whatever ever you choose.
Keep in mind the tow ball weight of the van. And that tow ball weight will actually be more on the rear axle due the the ball to axle distance. Good luck
I suggest you plan on taking the tinnie as you like to have a fish. It will also add another dimension for family outings on the water. Just as long as the van has sufficient living space for the family. I understand your dilemma. Maybe some lighter but strong vans will come on the market as new technology becomes mainstream. Best wishes for your decision.
thanks for an honest video, very informative. So annoying re the boat, tough lesson to learn. Hope you're not left too much out of pocket with the swap for a new one.
Yeah all over it Ron. Just didn't want to bog down on too much technical stuff in this video. I'll address axle weights and how theyre affected by TBM ect next week!
We have a 15 month old jayco love it wouldn't hesitate in buying another one got mates with so called "better brand" vans that have had alot more warranty work done with alot less trips and with the money you save get a lighter tinny. The lighter your setup the better I reckon
Nice vid Cam. Don't forget that the weight also needs to include clothing and food which will vary the weight depending on how much you have at any time. I'd forgo the tinny and get a more comfy van or look at an inflatable dinghy.
Cheers mate, yeah we're in the fortunate position that we've travelled for extended periods before and have been able to weigh a car and van fully loaded before heading off on trips. So we've got a good idea of how much we are likely to take and what kind of weight we're looking at!
I would take the tinnie and strip out the canopy so you’re not duplicating heavy items that should be in the van ie water tanks, fridge, cooking gear etc The winch is also a heavy luxury, as a tourer you just need max trax Take the awning off as the van will have one The list goes on I catch heaps more fish out of my boat than I ever did beach fishing Think of all that fresh seafood
Keep the tinny, seen loads of youtubers saying having it makes the lap/travel so much better. Get a lighter tinny Keep water tank, just have it empty or min water in it when towing. Get rid of some drawers I would Keep the winch Maybe lighten equipment? Chairs,tables etc. Your towball weight will go on gvm so maybe stick outboard in tunnel drawer on van when towing?
In my opinion, not taking a (lighter) tinny would cut out a lot of awesome boating/fishing trips. The JB or Jayco are good enough to get you around Australia and the zone has issues just like other vans (have a look at the @lifestyle pioneers).. just do a check before and after you take on the Cape or the Gibb.. Thanks for taking us along the build and weigh in, I thought you would be over GVM by a lot but you did a great job saving weight! Cheers Cam 🤙🏼
After doing a lap over the last 3 years. If I was to go again for a year, I’d get a lighter tinny setup and a smaller caravan. But if you want it all then look into getting yours converted to a six wheeler. Up to 4495kg gvm and you may still be able to get a gcm upgrade if you up it to a medium rigid. Would be interested in seeing if it goes every where you go now too. They say it’s as capable as a standard 4x4.
That would be cool! But buying a van and having a year off work is already stretching it budget wise - we're just going to have to work with what we have!
@@WildTouring Do not do a 6x6 conversion I have the only one is Australia so far for 6x6 isuzu nps 300. Yes it looks dam cool on 37inch All Terrain Warriors are in the process but any way I advised them not too 🤦♂️ Serious mods are definitely not worth it. Let me know if you want to talk more about it more 👍
I have been looking forward to this one. When you was doing the build I was wondering how you was going to go for weight. One thing that I have come to appreciate is that carrying the absolute maximum is not ideal. Doing so puts the vehicle at risk. This is especially true if you are driving off-road. As you found out washouts are sneaky little buggers and can lead to damage. More weight increases the risk of damage.
@@WildTouring Yeah I understand. I have just bought a Ranger and have just started the journey of putting on a canopy (now waiting for up to 12 weeks for delivery...lol) and fitting it out. I am doing everything possible to cut down on weight without going to premium products. For example, I can't justify an $18k canopy....lol
Hi Cam. Looking forward to the next vid where you explain how all this comes together for towing purposes. With the boat on, you’ve got bugger-all GVM left for tow ball weight. But, like you’ve explained, with a lighter tinny and stripping things out of the canopy you can probably get down to about 3200kg GVM which you’ll need to do for the approx 300kg tow ball weight for a 3T van.
But then of course you’ll have a 3.2T car and a 3T van, which is 250kg over your GCM. So you’ll need to reduce the van weight to about 2.75T with about 250kg ball weight to fit it all in. Love seeing these vids where people go in to it as deep as you do. It sucks, but it’s a necessary evil 👍
Cheers mate. Yeah with a lighter tinny and some further weight reduction on the car we'd shed about 300kgs more and we'd be looking at vans under 2.8t.
Now is not the time to be buying a van, when interest rates go up the second hand market will become active again and prices will drop. The decision on what size van will be determined by whatever the deal of the day pops up. Keep up the great work.
Good to see someone actually paying attention to weights. Your dilemma is a tough one, and even then in your video you haven’t added ball weight into your gvm calculations. The only real option if you want both the tinny (which I think you are mad not to take on a lap) and a decent van is to upgrade the vehicle and go to something more heavy duty, like a ram or light truck
I absolutely haven't forgotten TBM. But its kind of irrelevant for my situation, I'll be well clear of my GVM (even with the max 350kgs on the ball), its my GCM that is going to be close.
Nice work mate, been there before, however have a vehicle suited to yor applications! And always, as i believe, the tug should be heaver the tow! Weight pacement is also critical to achieve a stable and non stressful drive! Owning a Kedron made me join weight watchers! Cheers J ,Bangger!
Hey mate. Loving the vids about the van as it’s so similar to what we’ve just been through. We’ve gone from a camper trailer to a caravan. We searched long and hard as you did, initially wanting a 15 ft hybrid, but found the build quailities weren’t up to scratch. We elected to go a second hand Jayco StarCraft Outback, in a 19ft, 3 bunk variant to suit life with a 1 yr old and plans to add more kids, which is essentially the same as a Jayco Journey Outback, great value for money and there are Jayco dealers nation wide which gave me great confidence in travelling knowing that I would more than likely be able to source parts or knowledge for any issues that would arise. Somewhere around 160kg ball weight and 2400kg van weight on the road. Defiantly suggest looking into these vans 👍🏼🍺🍺
Since you will be having a caravan with water tanks in it, id ditch the undertray one or go smaller and keep the winch as its very usefull for self recovery when solo, can always get a water jerry for a boys trip etc
Great video Cam. I would take the tinny albeit a lighter one. Also can I suggest what ever caravan you decide to go with get it weighed prior to purchase. Just to confirm that is whats on caravan plate. Also look at a longer drawbar on the van better turning cicle and manoeuvrability. We have this on our Paramount van wont ever go to a shorter drawbar again.
Thanks Craig, thats good advice mate. Not sure how we will go getting the van weighed prior to purchase (most of the vans we're looking at are sold on the other side of the country), but we'll definitely weigh it all set up when its here and loaded up for a trip.
Nice fit out mate 👌 We took the dmax for a big trip over a few weeks towing a big van, definitely epic having the big one for more space etc.. Very glad we went the bigger one as had some crappy nights with rain etc. Don't know much about boating but would some sort of decent inflatable be an option?
Its great to see you guys are doing it properly and sorting weights and stuff likethat out, especially before selecting a van. Few people do. I might have missed it, but did you check individual axle weights too? That catches alot of people out also. On the van front, how are you planning on living out of it? I see people all the time towing 20+ft vans, just to spend all their time outside of it, and only going inside to sleep. All that extra space they bought the van for, they arent using. If you guys think you would be similar, an offroad hybrid might be a better solution. They tend to be smaller and lighter than proper caravans, and usually utilise the available space better. Something 15-18ft would have ample room imho
Cheers for the suggestions mate. Definitely have not forgotten about axle load limits, just didn't want to get too bogged down on that in this video, ill cover it all next vid. For the trip we're planning we'd love to ideally love to find a full size van around 18ft. Just havnt found one with the layout and specs we want (other than a custom build here in Perth which we're exploring). We know we dont want a hybrid this time around.
We've got a jayco journey 19.61-3 ob. One of the issues with the Jayco's is that their default payload isn't big enough so most people recommend their payload upgrade option (600kg payload). So watch out for that if you are looking at used vans. Also it is a semi off road van, only one shock per tyre, and has no under body protection. It may not be up to the level of off roading you will likely want to do with it. Their All Terrain models are more suitable but much heavier.
Check out the Willow Conifer 620 - 19.2ft with bunks and prett sure ATM comes in at 2.8T so you get to keep the tinny. It also has the composite frame.
Tinnys are heavy, have a look at Enlightened boating. They build fantastic composite roof toppers and they are literally half the weight! You can therefor run a smaller motor or the same motor using half the fuel!
I weighed our 200 yesterday. Me and the mrs (she's pretty small), a full tank of fuel, fridge full, but nothing else in car.ARB front bar and winch, rear carrier, aluminium roofrack with awning. I am almost 200kilos above standard GVM!!!!
Another great video. Lighter tinny, small engine , cause let’s face small tinny in croc country is silly anyway, but useful elsewhere, get a Gator X. Plan sorted
Your ball weight gets added for gvm so you’d be limited to 118kg with the tinny which all the vans you mentioned will be over. As for vans we did the same a while back and ended up getting a 2015 coromal element. Being pretty hands on it’s a much better option as there will always be things you want to change!
Like I said in the video, I've got about 200kgs more I can (and most probably will) take off the car, and I'd definitely have to swap the tinny out for a something lighter regardless. The tinny I'd swap for weighs in at around 80kgs. So i'd be roughly 300kgs lighter and sweet for GVM and rear axle weights (which would also be over if i didn't make these changes). All this is explained in the next vid - just didnt want to bog down on Rear axles weights, TBM and GVM in this one without a proper explanation for those that arnt full bottle on it all.
@@WildTouring too easy mate sounds like you are all over it!! I personally believe the whole system is rubbish and a money making scheme. A 200 series gvm can be upgraded 700kg with just shocks and springs, no axle upgrade. Have to keep insurance company happy though!
Cam, I have a 2016 DMax with GVM upgrade to 3450. We tow a Concept 17.6 single axle which comes in at 2.6 tonne (i am set up for off-road with independent axle, 2 x 945lt water tanks, 405W solar on the roof etc ) I have an Isuzu canopy with racks which is probably heavy. So I load to DMax to 3100ish and with the caravan we are right on GCM. I have a 130 litre fuel tank. The DMAx tows this setup ok but it is not comfortable power wise with this weight, especially on hills. I would say go for the lighter weight van as 3100 would be a significant strain for the DMax to pull. There are plenty of vans around to 2.5ish weight that will serve your wish list but as you know they are all over here in the East. Don’t be fooled by the 10% towball weight myth either, the only engineering study I could find on the net into tow ball weights concluded that 6-8% was the optimum weight (a UK study). I would like a boat but don’t think I can get the weights to marry. Haven’t looked into replacing tray and canopy for a set up like yours mainly because of money at moment. Cheers
Gday Mike, thanks for your comment. Sounds like you've got a good setup. Powerwise - seriously consider getting it tuned. We did about 30,000kms towing very close to GCM (5.88t) on and offroad and it never felt underpowered. If you're in Perth speak to Reaper Performance.
@@WildTouring Cam, Thanks, yes have been toying with some form of power upgrade because stock it really is on its limit at GCM. Is yours ECU tuned or a chip? Berrimah Diesel is not far from us but they flog a diesel chip, not sure which way to go?
Great work on the rebuild of the car, that's some significant weight saving. Looks like you need to find a caravan that has the boat on top 🤔 looking forward to next week and all the weight acronyms, I think 90% of people don't understand and so many rigs end up grossly overweight. 🍺🍻
Cheers Luke! The GVM of the car is not an issue, its the combined weight of van and car thats the limiting factor - doesn't matter where i put the tinny unfortunately!
Hey mate ute is looking really good now. I have a 2014 dmax and I thought mine was heavy at 2.7 ton. I run side steps on my ute for 3 reasons they stop stone chips on the sills. It's easier for the wife to get in the ute and if a roo comes in from the side it's easier to fix a door than a sill. As for running alloy rims I don't think there is a lot of difference only because the alloy has to be a lot thicker. I'll take one of my alloy wheels off and weigh it for you. As for your boat have you thought about a poly boat I think it's the same stuff they make the water tanks out of not sure if they are any lighter. They may also be hotter to touch with the sun on them and they probably create static electricity and zap you all the time. Bad idea forget the plastic boat.⚡
Yeah solid advice, plenty of good reasons to keep side steps on. I just dont have the weight capacity though so its a compromise ill probably have to make. Alloy rims in my size saves me about 4kgs a corner, so about 20kgs weight saving (including the spare). Doesn't sound like much, but it all adds up! We've considered poly, fibreglass and inflatable boats. All are options!
In my opinion, the tiny on your travels should be as lite as possible I guess fishing is not going to be off shore, rivers or bays close to shore so comfort is not required, ie, flooring. Think about how, much usage the tiny will have overall, (on your big trip). When you get home and go for a 3 day trip then repack for comfort. Every thing is a compromise. Good luck with your choice. I have had boats and now a 3rd caravan, so asses the time you will use of the tiny. Enjoy your vids and follow your ventures. Cheers, Russ.
Love watching your show keep up the good work we have a Jayco journey outback and more than happy with it we went that way because if we do have any problems with it you have a Jayco dealer all over Australia so parts and help are Australia wide keep up the good work 👍👌
Unless I missed it somewhere in the video, as stated, you are going to have to factor in towball weight into your GVM. On the conservative side, with an off road van, you would be looking at around 250kg. With full tinny setup & awning, that puts you over GVM as it is. Can you leave the trailer at home to shed some kg's as well? Great vid, good to see you taking this issue seriously and not as some suggest, just wing it & go. Family safety comes first every time !!
He went in to detail about how he can save weight on his GVM by going for a lighter tinny and stripping weight out of the canopy once they have the van. He also said he’ll explain everything in greater detail on the next vid.
Thank you for making these kind of episodes. Can't wait for next week's one. This subject is one thing that I'm still trying to get my head around. I hope your not thinking of upgrading the dmax
Have you thought about an inflatable? 3.3m carry up to 480kgs. Packed weight of 50kgs. It’s not like you need a tinny “ready to go” off the roof and in the water. Usually you plan the trip. Inflate night before etc.you could launch from anywhere no trailer needed probably. As far as caravan - be comfortable but did you spend most time outside of it cooking sitting etc. your inside in weather and to sleep. See so many massive rigs with AC running and they sit outside in $30 camp chairs! Keep it simple! The Jayco would be good I think.
I reckon go with Jayco or JB and keep the tinny. It might be a bit heavy, but that probably makes it a more comfortable ride on the water. You've also set it up really well. You guys are easy to relate to because you live within your means. A refreshing change from many TH-camrs touring with setups more expensive than a house. We had a Jayco Expanda, but now have a New Age Road Owl. Both great vans. Reckon you would get a lot more subscribers if you went with Jayco. We are doing a 6 month half lap from July onwards. We have a Pajero, but don't have enough wriggle room for a tinny. Will be taking a kayak and speargun though.
Nice video good to see someone is responsible!! No twin cab Ute should be towing a 3 + ton van it’s bloody ridiculous. Go with a near new (secondhand ) Jayco save 60k on ya Zone buy a light weight tinny or inflatable cat think ( takacat ) and mod the van to take some outback conditions. Enjoy
With a lighter van you still have the flexibility of taking/not taking the tinny, a heavier van locks you into NO tinny. I'd opt for the flexible option personally unless you can remove some weight (by redesign) of the heavier van options to accomodate the weight of a lightened tinny you may end up with.
Personally I think you have to look at what you are most likely to be doing/going and then planning from there. Will the lighter/cheaper vans withstand the roads/tracks you're planning on driving over as you need the van to be safe/reliable in the first instance. How often are you likely to use the tinny and will a lightweight small boat be safe/suitable if you want to use it or take the kids out for example. All of this is about compromises, so which ones hurt the least. If it was me all that mucking around for a small boat that really can't get you far wouldn't be worth it and I would maybe plan on some fishing charters or pick good land based fishing destinations on the way but that's just me. No right/wrong answer with all of this so good luck and thanks for the video.
Mate as mentioned previously you don’t need to spend crazy money on a new van to have a great trip Around Australia. Nothing wrong with a JB or Jayco they will do the job comfortably. 👍
I think it comes down to what they want in a van, as per previous video. So while the jayco may well be cheap, it might not have the features they want in their van.
You are right, but also consider they will have two quite young kids. I think less things to set up and pack down every time they move camp would make it easier.
Yeah thats true mate. We travelled aus as kids in tents and loved it.
Don't forget about the tow ball down weight of a van which is usually 8 - 10 % of the van weight. This will count towards your GVM of your car.
That's correct, and this is usually around 9 - 10% of the van weight, this is where most people come undone, so you will more than likely have to add another 250+ kg to your vehicle gvm all depending on the manufacturer
Haven't forgotten about ball weight, that's all factored in. As is axle load limits.
It'll all be explained in more detail in next weeks vid - just didn't want to get bogged down in explaining all these things in this video.
And people have to be included also.
Bring the Tinny for sure Cam, nothing worse than sitting at camp watching other people taking off in a tinny bringing back 🐟 🎣 🤣👍
Haha true, that will kill me!!!!
I'd have to improve my social skills to get an invite out on their boats 🤣🤣🤣
Thanks Cam, I've always been very interested and intrigued by weights and logistics! We run bang on all our limits which isn't ideal. The amount of times I would of sold me left nut to be able to haul a tinny around Aus with us is up there. No tinny = No frozen Fish fillets in the feezer = less weight.
Tiny = more fun, more fish, more smiles, more tucka, haha and I guess more weight..
Its a tough call!
I wouldn't stress about running around on your limit, as long as you're under you are insured, and car/van manufacturers factor in big safety margins to minimise liability for themselves!
Take the boat with you. From watching your videos, you really enjoy using your boat during your trips. I imagine your children would love in time to go out with you fishing. As long as the van meets your key requirements, the additional weight is just nice to have items.
I do really enjoy fishing (despite and obvious lack of skills😂).
Finding a van that meets those key requirements is the sticking point though!
A lot less options available when we start looking at fullsize offroad family bunk vans under 2.8t ATM.
Bring the tinny (or a lighter one). Now you own one you're likely to regret not having one for the lap. You can experience so much more of Australia when you have a boat, and it makes for some cool experiences for the kids.
Yeah I'd love to! We'll see how we get on!
Love the tinny as a toy to explore cam…no brainer for me but i reckon mint idea to strip the canopy drawers etc to see if you can get the bigger van in tow. Love ya
Cheers Pete, can't bloody wait for our next tinny trip mate!
Take the Tinny 100%. I’ve done a trip round oz and a mate came with a tinny on a part of the trip and some of the best memories are fishing. Kids will love the time out on the boat and also another activity to keep them/yourself occupied.
Our combined is 6020 20' full offroad Elross.
Our Dmax 2018 with suspension upgrade bullbar n winch snorkel etc 2800. We removed draws n roofrack.
So still 250kgs over. Not sure what else to loose. Most people are a lot worse than us, but still throwing unneeded stuff out .
Good luck
You will be kicking yourself over and over if you decide to do the lap without a tinny! Don’t do it to yourself 😂 the build is looking great mate 🤙🏽
Yeah I know i will.. But I've got to be realistic too!
The tinny wont come off the roof at every campsite, and its only me that really wants it.
The whole family will be in the van every night and ill kick myself if choosing a lighter construction van means dust ingress and cabinetry falling apart every time i take it on unsealed tracks!
Can you put a tinny on the camper?
Cam great work on the transparency of being concerned about weight and showing what affects your GVM and the actual figures.
I've been 4WDriving and touring since the early nineties and it was something that no one took any notice of back then and likely till the last three or so years. I am being super fussy over my current build on accessories weight, to the point where I cant find a product that is light enough I am engineering and building it myself. And in few cases the builds are cost me a lot more money than many would be prepared to pay for the materials.
But what we rarely keep in mind is that accessories are by and large a one time expense, if thought about why you need them, and how you will use it. Case in point my last vehicle ran a Dual battery system with a 100Ahr Lithium battery and no permanently connected solar panel. Yet, the lowest I saw the battery was 75%. This time around I am dropping back to a 50 AHr battery with a permanent connected solar panel. Total weight savings is 4Kg. I built the ute back canopy and saved over 70Kg.
I also saved 22kg on the bull bar I chose. Many will say 22kg is nothing. Yet, it is 20 litres of water, that you cant de-hydrate and we need to stay alive.
But what does make me think, all the time, is why people go for massive caravans. As a eight year old I was in my own tent when touring with my family. The length and height of these vans precludes access to areas like a lot of the Victorian High Country and NSW Great Divide National Parks. And you are paying so much extra in fuel to tow 2500kg than 1800kg, especially now that fuel is north of $2 per litre on the east coast.
I would consider a smaller 3-4 berth single axle van (that is easier to maneuver both on and off the hitch) and maybe putting the kids in a double swag under the awning.
Good luck with it all and Ill be watching with interest.
We've got a popup journey outback 16 1/2 ft. We've taken it over a lot of dirt roads, some pretty rough ones. The first thing I did B4 we used it was to get underneath and make sure all the service holes in the floor were properly sealed (a few missed spots were found). Still gets a little bit of dust in some cupboards. I'm about to put a pop up air vent (for horse floats etc) on the roof which will fix all that. Some overhead cupboards came a bit loose which wasn't too hard to fix. Some drawer slides. We now make a point of deflating the tyres. Makes a hell of a difference, as you know. Ours is 6 years service now. I'd say they are pretty good. A bit of general maintenance now and then, same with anything really. We are pretty happy with it. Hope this helps.
Thanks for the feedback Don, sounds like you've had a good run!
We are on the road ft and have JB Gator X, tows well off road, done 100's km off road nothing fallen apart yet, good functioning van for our needs. We have made some changes since purchase, Carafan & replaced stone guard with stone stompers. We purchased from Perth, recommend do your homework as dealer's only answer questions you ask. Recommend joining Facebook page for whatever van you're interested in before you sign up 😊
Appreciate the feedback, we're on the JB owners pages.
Take a Tinny Cam. It's a once in a lifetime trip. Great insight into your set-up. We all like creature comforts, but at what cost. You may regret it, sounds like your mind is already made up. Go with your gut feeling...
Cheers Mark...
Nice Cam interesting to see how quick it adds up when I was setting up everything in the 62 I organised everything down the KG to keep it in line with GVM but I’m still going to have to have a look at a upgrade when we go for a bigger van down the track that’s future Brayden’s problem 😂
Haha i hear ya. When i bought the dmax I knew GCM was a limitation, but Tiff and I at that stage honestly never thought we would be in a van... A couple of kids really changed that haha
Don’t leave without a boat. We are 8 months into our lap and we have an EZY Topper 3.7m which is super light weight (stated weight is 48kg) and we tow a 21.5ft van with our dual cab cruiser. The weight dilemma is a common one for traveling families more than most people realize. The guys that make the EZY Topper do higher sided deeper v hulls as well if that’s what you’re looking for. I’ve had our boat offshore in the right conditions along with my wife and two kids and while it would be nice to have something with higher sides and a deeper v it’s all a compromise when you’re traveling as I’m sure you’re already aware. Happy to give you some more info on our setup and my weight research if you’re interested.
TAKE THE TINNY!
You love it. The kids will love it. Gives you so many more options for adventures / content. Cheers for another great vid. Just joined the van gang, buying a 2010 Jayco Swan outback. Very keen to get a roof topper set up myself.
Looking good Cam and smart approach to weight management not just to stay legal but keep your loved ones safe and others on the road - towing over 3 tonnes is really a nervous road journey - but for versatility and to avoid those pondering moments when you regret not bringing the tinny I would go for a lower weight caravan, take the tinny and even try for a lighter one - then you will have a full adventure - John in SA
Remember it’s all about enjoying the journey, the places, the family the van is only accommodation and cooking facilities, go light take the boat.
I made the mistake of buying the caravan first (sunseeker 2.7t empty) and am now having to decide on a car realising I need a land cruiser now but can’t afford one. 😩. I’m hoping the new ranger might be the saving grace. Good luck with the van hunt mate.
From a logical brain - with the lap planning how much of it will be "chasing coastlines" where boat can be used vs inland destinations?
Maybe work out ball park percentage split of the two types of destinations then gauge weather you can forego having it on board or not?
The magic number or percentage is something only you can really determine, but that might help you reach a decision.
Also think of fishing charters etc in some areas to get you off shore fix in lieu of lugging it around.
Perhaps if possible trade out the boat trailer for fold down/detachable dolly wheels to help drag it in and out of the water?
Hey Cam, Good info for anyone looking to do this... I've got a tinny on the roof and towing an 18ft Jayco. 3330 GVM on the Ranger and can only tow 2670. The Jayco has a tare of 2175 and had the upgraded payload to 600 and needed that due to upgrading the battery, solar system, water tanks etc. I'm right on my limit with weights. Mate, we love our Jayco. With everything on my list, tare, payload, dual axle, clearance, toilet & shower etc etc, we settled on the 17.53-3 and love it. Its semi-offroad and we take it everywhere. Hope that helps mate
Hi I have doing much the same thing with my 200 series & caravan the van is 1870 tare & 2,500 gvm LC has gvm upgrade to 3,650kg
It's the rear axle load is close . The gvm vehicle upgrade is subtracted from the gvm .I think you might go close with 2,800kg van to the 6,000kg gcm. When you choose the new van make them weight it with you present some are over the compliance tare...tends to do your head in!! Good luck
Definitely need to take a tinny so many beautiful spots to go fishing or even a day trip out with the family .
Just something to think about. With the tinny your additional rear axle capacity is 144 kg. Tow ball weight actually accentuates this depending on the actual overhang. ie: 1 metre overhang with 2 metre wheelbase adds half the ball weight again to the rear axle (I think!) so 350 kg BW makes 525 kg to rear axle and 175 kg off steer (leverage effect). The winch does the reverse so leaving the winch on actually reduces rear axle weight slightly and helps to hold the steer on the ground (slightly) when towing. I realise it's all a bit academic when you exceed the ute GVM with only 118 kg BW but it will need considering when you shuffle stuff around. I feel your pain as I have just been through the whole weighing process myself. It's all surmountable but it can be a head spin finding a legal compromise.
Yeap theres a lot more involved than I've covered in this video.
Like I said I'll go into more depth using my figures in next weeks vid.
So much to consider when buying a new van🤷🏼♀️. We moved from a Kedron (no WC, as you age you need this 😂) that was bloody heavy, to a Jayco Journey Outback. The Jayco hasn’t missed a beat, and we now have a loo 😎. We tow with a 76 cruiser so we have lots of towing ability but we think the less weight the better to tow with. Hope you figure it all out and find the perfect van. Stay safe . Love your videos❤️
Cheers Mark. Sounds look a good setup mate!
It's going well Cam. Take the tinny!!!!!
I would leave the tinny at home as you can always fish off the banks and jetties and most places you can hire a boat or go on a charter (then you don't have to do all the boat cleaning 😉).
So I would have a real good think about just how often on that trip would you really use it 🤔.
Yeah thats good advice Mick, Cheers.
Take the tinnie mate! We have a heavier van and it is amazing but we are living it in, if your planning a lap over fulltime living a lighter van and more experience would be the way. Awesome set up you have either way, we are excited to see what you choose!
Take the tinny your not living in the van all day most of the time you are outside with the van you need a full size onsuite and good beds we never used to cook in the van I used to cook most meals in the Webber or on the fire .so for me a lighter van better fuel economy ,the van is really o place to sleep and have a tub and a place for the washing machine most of the time your outside under the awning in your outside lounge .a full size annex is handy if your staying in one place for a while to give you that extra room just my thoughts it worked very well for us our van was 19 ft just over two ton with the water in it.enjoy your lap🙂🙂
Some really good tips here about whether to take a tinny or not. I’m getting a GVM upgrade next week, will be interesting to see the weights with the roof top tent and awning etc.
Definitely try and get a tinnie onboard mate. Exploring creeks and coastline with the kids would be a great part of the trip.
Would be good!
I have 1 fresh water and 2 washing water tanks in the van, always travel with 1/4 full washing water saving 150kg on tow weight. I have 80L water tank and 80L aux diesel that I travel with 20L in each until I really need them to be full, again saving 120kg on 4WD weight. I pump any water needed at last location before spending a week or so away from replenishments. I have 500km range on standard tank towing, so only fill the aux when needed touring Australia and again not very often (GCR, Savannah Way Gulf track inc Lorella Springs, GGR all done without long range tank needed just topping up regularly.Your not going to tow the van across the Simpson) Just because you can load it up most of the time you wont need to.
Hi Cam, very interesting vid & your guys dilemma in new van/tinny I hope I can offer an option to ponder. Get the bigger caravan & lighter tinny. If it goes overweight... bummer but youse could hire a tinny if your camped up for a week somewhere . It’s a thought.
All the best & thanks for sharing your knowledge & where youse are at
Cheers Rosalie, either way we'll pick the van, load it all up to touring weight and weigh it again to see if we've got the room to take a small/lighter tinny.
Had our setup weighed with a 200 series GVM upgrade and a triple bunk family van. Very easy to go over limits and 90% of setups will be over.
Hey mate , good to see your on to all your weights , I’ve recently done all ours and it’s quite surprising . We had to get a engineer to give us a ATM upgrade on the van so now we have a bit more payload. As you found out with your tinny , the weight is not what you were told when you purchased it. That is the same when looking for a van, the majority of vans aren’t weighed individually,they weigh a couple at the factory then they go off these weights for every van. Things can change in the builds , different materials used ,different appliances and of course anything you add to it, this adds to the weight. So whoever you purchase your van through just make sure they give you a up to date weight certificate that matches the compliance plates . We got caught out by this and once I got the tow rig and van weighed with the two water tanks full I found out we were over and we still had to put food and clothing in. We were just lucky that the van was built strong enough to get the ATM and GTM upgraded. It’s very common that what the compliance plates say is no where near what the true weight is . Hope this helps a bit . Good to see you putting this out there mate ,more people need to be aware of the legality of being overweight. Cheers 🤙
When someone talks weights its like opening a can of worms...I enjoyed it though, and as your ute is similar kerb weight and im looking at a similar set up soon with caravan, im really intrigued to see where your ends up with the GCM's etc..
Cam I reckon you and Tiff probably have a good idea of what you want from your lap of Oz, and if that entails a tiny, than take it, and go the lighter one. Dont not take it and regret it. Also remember the boat can give you access to some much greater fishing spots than you will get on land. Especially in Nth Aus.
Another thought, dont forget to check the must do spots in your trip plan and access restrictions, as there are plenty of places you cant take vans, and will need the swags and cooking gear in the canopy. But again I'm sure you and Tiff will work out your key destinations. Just check you can take vans to them all, and if the boat is really worth taking or not.. Im glad its not my gead ache, but im sure I'd be up at nights thinking about this stuff too..
The van will be your home so make sure you are really happy with it . We learnt the hard way having to change vans every few years to cater for our growing boys. You could always get a blow up boat 😂😂😂.
Yeah thats good advice. We know the tinny will only come off the roof when we're on the coast and the weather is right. Whereas we will be in the van every day!
@@WildTouring looking 4wd to see which van you go with 🍺
Another great video Cam. Definitely take a tinny as you’ll regret it if you don’t.
Also water is the biggest limiting factor when free camping, so I’d keep the water holding capacity in the car for when you need it.
JB Gators are awesome vans, but being single axel do have a lot of ball weight . We elected to go with a duel axel Dirt Roader which is a little heavier tare wise but still well under 3T fully loaded and the ball weights under 200kg.
Good luck with whatever ever you choose.
Thanks for the advice and feedback John. 👍
Keep in mind the tow ball weight of the van. And that tow ball weight will actually be more on the rear axle due the the ball to axle distance.
Good luck
some interesting data here that's for sure ! good ideas and technicals and tips
Cheers Brent
I suggest you plan on taking the tinnie as you like to have a fish. It will also add another dimension for family outings on the water. Just as long as the van has sufficient living space for the family. I understand your dilemma. Maybe some lighter but strong vans will come on the market as new technology becomes mainstream. Best wishes for your decision.
Aussie Fivestar Caravans, great prices for offroaders, they’ll have something that suits you
thanks for an honest video, very informative. So annoying re the boat, tough lesson to learn. Hope you're not left too much out of pocket with the swap for a new one.
Don’t forget to account for the weight on the rear axle once the van is on, bit close with the boat loaded.
Yeah all over it Ron. Just didn't want to bog down on too much technical stuff in this video. I'll address axle weights and how theyre affected by TBM ect next week!
Wow you really research and get into detail great to see helps alot :)
It’s definitely worth bringing a tinny, it was the only regret of our last trip of Eastern Australia Coast.
We have a 15 month old jayco love it wouldn't hesitate in buying another one got mates with so called "better brand" vans that have had alot more warranty work done with alot less trips and with the money you save get a lighter tinny. The lighter your setup the better I reckon
Cheers for the feedback Mark!
Glad the weigh in worked out for you, mostly... I was nervous for you!
Nice vid Cam. Don't forget that the weight also needs to include clothing and food which will vary the weight depending on how much you have at any time. I'd forgo the tinny and get a more comfy van or look at an inflatable dinghy.
Cheers mate, yeah we're in the fortunate position that we've travelled for extended periods before and have been able to weigh a car and van fully loaded before heading off on trips. So we've got a good idea of how much we are likely to take and what kind of weight we're looking at!
Forget the tinny and outboard and go for the zone, big long-term investment keep it safe.
Have you considered the Kimberley Kruisers? Full off road vans which are often lower weights than the competition.
I would take the tinnie and strip out the canopy so you’re not duplicating heavy items that should be in the van ie water tanks, fridge, cooking gear etc
The winch is also a heavy luxury, as a tourer you just need max trax
Take the awning off as the van will have one
The list goes on
I catch heaps more fish out of my boat than I ever did beach fishing
Think of all that fresh seafood
thanks for the info, its been a huge help
No worries mate
Keep the tinny, seen loads of youtubers saying having it makes the lap/travel so much better.
Get a lighter tinny
Keep water tank, just have it empty or min water in it when towing.
Get rid of some drawers
I would Keep the winch
Maybe lighten equipment? Chairs,tables etc.
Your towball weight will go on gvm so maybe stick outboard in tunnel drawer on van when towing?
It still adds to tball weight in tunnel boot.
Cheers for the advice Oli.
I'll definitely look at reducing some weight everywhere we can.
Great info Cam.. I often sneak into the CBH installations to weigh when on trips. Its surprises you how heavy you can get..
Cheers mate, yeah it sneaks up on you!
In my opinion, not taking a (lighter) tinny would cut out a lot of awesome boating/fishing trips. The JB or Jayco are good enough to get you around Australia and the zone has issues just like other vans (have a look at the @lifestyle pioneers).. just do a check before and after you take on the Cape or the Gibb.. Thanks for taking us along the build and weigh in, I thought you would be over GVM by a lot but you did a great job saving weight! Cheers Cam 🤙🏼
Cheers mate. I know there is compromise either way. Just got to decide what we're willing to compromise on!
After doing a lap over the last 3 years. If I was to go again for a year, I’d get a lighter tinny setup and a smaller caravan. But if you want it all then look into getting yours converted to a six wheeler. Up to 4495kg gvm and you may still be able to get a gcm upgrade if you up it to a medium rigid.
Would be interested in seeing if it goes every where you go now too. They say it’s as capable as a standard 4x4.
That would be cool! But buying a van and having a year off work is already stretching it budget wise - we're just going to have to work with what we have!
@@WildTouring
Do not do a 6x6 conversion I have the only one is Australia so far for 6x6 isuzu nps 300. Yes it looks dam cool on 37inch
All Terrain Warriors are in the process but any way I advised them not too 🤦♂️
Serious mods are definitely not worth it.
Let me know if you want to talk more about it more 👍
Interesting video Cam! Good luck with the van purchase
Cheers mate.
Yeah take the tinny you will have it all then , my opinion , great vid guys :)
I have been looking forward to this one. When you was doing the build I was wondering how you was going to go for weight. One thing that I have come to appreciate is that carrying the absolute maximum is not ideal. Doing so puts the vehicle at risk. This is especially true if you are driving off-road. As you found out washouts are sneaky little buggers and can lead to damage. More weight increases the risk of damage.
Gday Rob. We'll be around the same weight combined as we were last time around, towed really well on and offroad!
@@WildTouring Yeah I understand. I have just bought a Ranger and have just started the journey of putting on a canopy (now waiting for up to 12 weeks for delivery...lol) and fitting it out. I am doing everything possible to cut down on weight without going to premium products. For example, I can't justify an $18k canopy....lol
Hi Cam. Looking forward to the next vid where you explain how all this comes together for towing purposes. With the boat on, you’ve got bugger-all GVM left for tow ball weight. But, like you’ve explained, with a lighter tinny and stripping things out of the canopy you can probably get down to about 3200kg GVM which you’ll need to do for the approx 300kg tow ball weight for a 3T van.
But then of course you’ll have a 3.2T car and a 3T van, which is 250kg over your GCM. So you’ll need to reduce the van weight to about 2.75T with about 250kg ball weight to fit it all in. Love seeing these vids where people go in to it as deep as you do. It sucks, but it’s a necessary evil 👍
Cheers mate. Yeah with a lighter tinny and some further weight reduction on the car we'd shed about 300kgs more and we'd be looking at vans under 2.8t.
Now is not the time to be buying a van, when interest rates go up the second hand market will become active again and prices will drop. The decision on what size van will be determined by whatever the deal of the day pops up.
Keep up the great work.
We're struggling to find something new that ticks all the boxes.
So chances of finding it second hand arnt good, but we've been looking.
Good to see someone actually paying attention to weights. Your dilemma is a tough one, and even then in your video you haven’t added ball weight into your gvm calculations. The only real option if you want both the tinny (which I think you are mad not to take on a lap) and a decent van is to upgrade the vehicle and go to something more heavy duty, like a ram or light truck
I absolutely haven't forgotten TBM.
But its kind of irrelevant for my situation, I'll be well clear of my GVM (even with the max 350kgs on the ball), its my GCM that is going to be close.
Nice work mate, been there before, however have a vehicle suited to yor applications!
And always, as i believe, the tug should be heaver the tow!
Weight pacement is also critical to achieve a stable and non stressful drive!
Owning a Kedron made me join weight watchers!
Cheers J ,Bangger!
Hey mate. Loving the vids about the van as it’s so similar to what we’ve just been through. We’ve gone from a camper trailer to a caravan. We searched long and hard as you did, initially wanting a 15 ft hybrid, but found the build quailities weren’t up to scratch. We elected to go a second hand Jayco StarCraft Outback, in a 19ft, 3 bunk variant to suit life with a 1 yr old and plans to add more kids, which is essentially the same as a Jayco Journey Outback, great value for money and there are Jayco dealers nation wide which gave me great confidence in travelling knowing that I would more than likely be able to source parts or knowledge for any issues that would arise. Somewhere around 160kg ball weight and 2400kg van weight on the road. Defiantly suggest looking into these vans 👍🏼🍺🍺
Cheers Matt, thats good feedback mate.
Since you will be having a caravan with water tanks in it, id ditch the undertray one or go smaller and keep the winch as its very usefull for self recovery when solo, can always get a water jerry for a boys trip etc
Cheers for the advice Tom
Great video Cam. I would take the tinny albeit a lighter one. Also can I suggest what ever caravan you decide to go with get it weighed prior to purchase. Just to confirm that is whats on caravan plate. Also look at a longer drawbar on the van better turning cicle and manoeuvrability. We have this on our Paramount van wont ever go to a shorter drawbar again.
Thanks Craig, thats good advice mate. Not sure how we will go getting the van weighed prior to purchase (most of the vans we're looking at are sold on the other side of the country), but we'll definitely weigh it all set up when its here and loaded up for a trip.
Nice fit out mate 👌 We took the dmax for a big trip over a few weeks towing a big van, definitely epic having the big one for more space etc.. Very glad we went the bigger one as had some crappy nights with rain etc. Don't know much about boating but would some sort of decent inflatable be an option?
Thanks Cam awesome info . We are getting our weights done next week before heading north and just a little scared of GVM on 4wd
Good luck Eddie!
Its great to see you guys are doing it properly and sorting weights and stuff likethat out, especially before selecting a van. Few people do.
I might have missed it, but did you check individual axle weights too? That catches alot of people out also.
On the van front, how are you planning on living out of it? I see people all the time towing 20+ft vans, just to spend all their time outside of it, and only going inside to sleep. All that extra space they bought the van for, they arent using.
If you guys think you would be similar, an offroad hybrid might be a better solution. They tend to be smaller and lighter than proper caravans, and usually utilise the available space better. Something 15-18ft would have ample room imho
Cheers for the suggestions mate.
Definitely have not forgotten about axle load limits, just didn't want to get too bogged down on that in this video, ill cover it all next vid.
For the trip we're planning we'd love to ideally love to find a full size van around 18ft. Just havnt found one with the layout and specs we want (other than a custom build here in Perth which we're exploring). We know we dont want a hybrid this time around.
We've got a jayco journey 19.61-3 ob. One of the issues with the Jayco's is that their default payload isn't big enough so most people recommend their payload upgrade option (600kg payload). So watch out for that if you are looking at used vans. Also it is a semi off road van, only one shock per tyre, and has no under body protection. It may not be up to the level of off roading you will likely want to do with it. Their All Terrain models are more suitable but much heavier.
Check out the Willow Conifer 620 - 19.2ft with bunks and prett sure ATM comes in at 2.8T so you get to keep the tinny. It also has the composite frame.
We've looked at the Conifer, but really want an offroad van. We've also looked at the Boab, but it would be too heavy to take the tinny.
@@WildTouring I think the conifer does come with the offroad pack as an option - it used to be called the adventure pack i think.
Cam thanks for the video 👍
Take the tinny as gives you an option. In Far NQ and the NT once you see the size of the crocs you won't be fishing off the bank.
Yeah thats good advice John, cheers.
Tinnys are heavy, have a look at Enlightened boating. They build fantastic composite roof toppers and they are literally
half the weight! You can therefor run a smaller motor or the same motor using half the fuel!
Cam loving the vids
We have done a lot of travel over the years and have always missed not having a tinnie.
I would go with your setup and buy a Gator
Take the tinny Cam i know u like fishing and by the time u are ready to do the Lap the kids will be older and i am sure the will love a ride in it
Cheers Terry, would be good!
Really enjoyed your video . Looking forward to your next one.Did you allow for your Keg ? Ha Ha
I weighed our 200 yesterday. Me and the mrs (she's pretty small), a full tank of fuel, fridge full, but nothing else in car.ARB front bar and winch, rear carrier, aluminium roofrack with awning. I am almost 200kilos above standard GVM!!!!
Yeah unfortunately 200 series have a really limited payload, I'd hazard a guess that most you see towing vans are over GVM.
8 out of 10 cruisers (200 series) towing caravans are overweight
Another great video. Lighter tinny, small engine , cause let’s face small tinny in croc country is silly anyway, but useful elsewhere, get a Gator X. Plan sorted
Your ball weight gets added for gvm so you’d be limited to 118kg with the tinny which all the vans you mentioned will be over. As for vans we did the same a while back and ended up getting a 2015 coromal element. Being pretty hands on it’s a much better option as there will always be things you want to change!
Like I said in the video, I've got about 200kgs more I can (and most probably will) take off the car, and I'd definitely have to swap the tinny out for a something lighter regardless. The tinny I'd swap for weighs in at around 80kgs.
So i'd be roughly 300kgs lighter and sweet for GVM and rear axle weights (which would also be over if i didn't make these changes). All this is explained in the next vid - just didnt want to bog down on Rear axles weights, TBM and GVM in this one without a proper explanation for those that arnt full bottle on it all.
@@WildTouring too easy mate sounds like you are all over it!! I personally believe the whole system is rubbish and a money making scheme. A 200 series gvm can be upgraded 700kg with just shocks and springs, no axle upgrade. Have to keep insurance company happy though!
Cam, I have a 2016 DMax with GVM upgrade to 3450. We tow a Concept 17.6 single axle which comes in at 2.6 tonne (i am set up for off-road with independent axle, 2 x 945lt water tanks, 405W solar on the roof etc ) I have an Isuzu canopy with racks which is probably heavy. So I load to DMax to 3100ish and with the caravan we are right on GCM. I have a 130 litre fuel tank. The DMAx tows this setup ok but it is not comfortable power wise with this weight, especially on hills. I would say go for the lighter weight van as 3100 would be a significant strain for the DMax to pull. There are plenty of vans around to 2.5ish weight that will serve your wish list but as you know they are all over here in the East. Don’t be fooled by the 10% towball weight myth either, the only engineering study I could find on the net into tow ball weights concluded that 6-8% was the optimum weight (a UK study). I would like a boat but don’t think I can get the weights to marry. Haven’t looked into replacing tray and canopy for a set up like yours mainly because of money at moment. Cheers
Gday Mike, thanks for your comment. Sounds like you've got a good setup.
Powerwise - seriously consider getting it tuned. We did about 30,000kms towing very close to GCM (5.88t) on and offroad and it never felt underpowered. If you're in Perth speak to Reaper Performance.
@@WildTouring Cam, Thanks, yes have been toying with some form of power upgrade because stock it really is on its limit at GCM. Is yours ECU tuned or a chip? Berrimah Diesel is not far from us but they flog a diesel chip, not sure which way to go?
Great work on the rebuild of the car, that's some significant weight saving. Looks like you need to find a caravan that has the boat on top 🤔 looking forward to next week and all the weight acronyms, I think 90% of people don't understand and so many rigs end up grossly overweight. 🍺🍻
Cheers Luke! The GVM of the car is not an issue, its the combined weight of van and car thats the limiting factor - doesn't matter where i put the tinny unfortunately!
Hey mate ute is looking really good now. I have a 2014 dmax and I thought mine was heavy at 2.7 ton. I run side steps on my ute for 3 reasons they stop stone chips on the sills. It's easier for the wife to get in the ute and if a roo comes in from the side it's easier to fix a door than a sill. As for running alloy rims I don't think there is a lot of difference only because the alloy has to be a lot thicker. I'll take one of my alloy wheels off and weigh it for you. As for your boat have you thought about a poly boat I think it's the same stuff they make the water tanks out of not sure if they are any lighter. They may also be hotter to touch with the sun on them and they probably create static electricity and zap you all the time. Bad idea forget the plastic boat.⚡
Yeah solid advice, plenty of good reasons to keep side steps on. I just dont have the weight capacity though so its a compromise ill probably have to make.
Alloy rims in my size saves me about 4kgs a corner, so about 20kgs weight saving (including the spare). Doesn't sound like much, but it all adds up!
We've considered poly, fibreglass and inflatable boats. All are options!
In my opinion, the tiny on your travels should be as lite as possible I guess fishing is not going to be off shore, rivers or bays close to shore so comfort is not required, ie, flooring. Think about how, much usage the tiny will have overall, (on your big trip). When you get home and go for a 3 day trip then repack for comfort. Every thing is a compromise. Good luck with your choice. I have had boats and now a 3rd caravan, so asses the time you will use of the tiny. Enjoy your vids and follow your ventures.
Cheers, Russ.
Love watching your show keep up the good work we have a Jayco journey outback and more than happy with it we went that way because if we do have any problems with it you have a Jayco dealer all over Australia so parts and help are Australia wide keep up the good work 👍👌
Yeah thats true, cheers for the advice!
Go for the jayco mate , we have a Starcraft and absolutely love it , great value for money 👍
Cheers for the feedback Paul, seems to be plenty of happy owners!
@@WildTouring we have a few friends with very expensive vans and have way more issues than we ever do , plus dealers in nearly every town 👍🍺👌
Unless I missed it somewhere in the video, as stated, you are going to have to factor in towball weight into your GVM. On the conservative side, with an off road van, you would be looking at around 250kg. With full tinny setup & awning, that puts you over GVM as it is. Can you leave the trailer at home to shed some kg's as well? Great vid, good to see you taking this issue seriously and not as some suggest, just wing it & go. Family safety comes first every time !!
He went in to detail about how he can save weight on his GVM by going for a lighter tinny and stripping weight out of the canopy once they have the van. He also said he’ll explain everything in greater detail on the next vid.
Yeah as Anthony said, we'd have to strip some more weight and replace tinny with something lighter to make it all happen.
Fantastic run down wish I had the chance to do ours close to home
Cheers Tim
Thank you for making these kind of episodes. Can't wait for next week's one.
This subject is one thing that I'm still trying to get my head around.
I hope your not thinking of upgrading the dmax
Cheers mate. Nah no plans to sell the Dmax anytime soon!
Have you thought about an inflatable? 3.3m carry up to 480kgs. Packed weight of 50kgs. It’s not like you need a tinny “ready to go” off the roof and in the water. Usually you plan the trip. Inflate night before etc.you could launch from anywhere no trailer needed probably.
As far as caravan - be comfortable but did you spend most time outside of it cooking sitting etc. your inside in weather and to sleep. See so many massive rigs with AC running and they sit outside in $30 camp chairs! Keep it simple! The Jayco would be good I think.
I reckon go with Jayco or JB and keep the tinny. It might be a bit heavy, but that probably makes it a more comfortable ride on the water. You've also set it up really well. You guys are easy to relate to because you live within your means. A refreshing change from many TH-camrs touring with setups more expensive than a house. We had a Jayco Expanda, but now have a New Age Road Owl. Both great vans. Reckon you would get a lot more subscribers if you went with Jayco.
We are doing a 6 month half lap from July onwards. We have a Pajero, but don't have enough wriggle room for a tinny. Will be taking a kayak and speargun though.
Appreciate the feedback Sam.
Kayak and a speargun will get you out there and onto some fish!
Nice video good to see someone is responsible!! No twin cab Ute should be towing a 3 + ton van it’s bloody ridiculous. Go with a near new (secondhand ) Jayco save 60k on ya Zone buy a light weight tinny or inflatable cat think ( takacat ) and mod the van to take some outback conditions. Enjoy
Cheers mate, we've been watching the second hand market for a while now.
Definitely take a tinny, it will add to your memorable moments on your trip.
Would be good!
Go the jayco. Take the tinny and bank the cash for sure. Win win for the family.
Definitely has its advantages going that way.
With a lighter van you still have the flexibility of taking/not taking the tinny, a heavier van locks you into NO tinny. I'd opt for the flexible option personally unless you can remove some weight (by redesign) of the heavier van options to accomodate the weight of a lightened tinny you may end up with.
Gosh it’s surprising how quickly weight adds up. One of our must have items is our kayaks and it’s not negotiable lol we have to make them work
Adds another element to coastal/riverside camping hey!
Personally I think you have to look at what you are most likely to be doing/going and then planning from there.
Will the lighter/cheaper vans withstand the roads/tracks you're planning on driving over as you need the van to be safe/reliable in the first instance.
How often are you likely to use the tinny and will a lightweight small boat be safe/suitable if you want to use it or take the kids out for example.
All of this is about compromises, so which ones hurt the least.
If it was me all that mucking around for a small boat that really can't get you far wouldn't be worth it and I would maybe plan on some fishing charters or pick good land based fishing destinations on the way but that's just me.
No right/wrong answer with all of this so good luck and thanks for the video.
Solid advice, and these are the things we're deliberating over now!
Lighter tinny with a JB Gator, smartest approach in my opinion.