I'm going to state this: The gameplay that I show with matches against the Heihachi is just background filler so you guys don't get bored with my discussion. Besides the few points where I highlight the few moments from those clips when I was editing, it's by no means a showcase of the initial discussion of the video. Hachi is just used as the control group because of a video I've seen that led me to experiment with the tracking issue.
Can't believe stepping which is what used to separate Tekken from other fighting games is now a feature that can randomly work or not. It seems even stepping is a 50/50 in this game 😂
I mean, this issue is kinda part of the reason people hate yoshi, because he has a sidestep that actually works the way sidestepping and sidewalking is somewhat supposed too. Ie, actually evades.
Right. If Bandai were to decrease the tracking in everyone's moves, then side steps can actually work as intended in a 3-demensional game. They've managed to nerf DJ demon paw tracking. That's a tell that tracking is overturned and can be reduced. But from patch to patch, they've only been buffing tracking in characters strings😑
@@delusional-lobo Exactly, movement isn't really a priority in this game design, so when you have a character that can actually move, they become "broken". Decrease the tracking of moves a bit, and you'll see a much more movement based play style.
no people hate yoshi’s b3 and b4 because theres multiple clips on yt and twitter of homing moves legit whiffing through yoshi when hes already minus before spin
Finally someone who doesn't excuse or ignore the stepping issue. Regardless of timings, Steps or sidewalks are wild inconsistent. Lost count of the DF2 that launched my SS/SW on read. But randomly whiff when I attempted to step something else and my opps are now uppercutting air. An attack whiffs twice on random SS timings then proceed to 180 turn or track when I step-launch or step-block even in training with the same timings/frames. Walking improves the evasion but it's now the new YOLO forcing you to block more which puts you in a constant disadvantage or set you up for CH in some characters who are constant + in their moves/strings.
@delusional-lobo True. I love movement. Step launches were my T7 staple. Step jet-upper was the fear of my friends. Now. You either walking long enough to evade the string/poke but not enough to launch/punish in time or get hit the moment you stop holding the walk without a press too. Which is odd that they even 180 without a press sometimes too.
I wish the game just adopted the VF system of, if you sidestep, you're just invulnerable to moves that are supposed to be able to be sidestepped. It just feels like an unnecessary variable where Lili can sidestep everything for free and bears are just told to fuck off
If you successfully sidestep Bryan's (and others) heat smash IE avoid the knee he will realign in mid-air sometimes a full 180 to hit you with the punch. As a Yoshi player my b3/4 spin gets clipped all the time and if I evade the first hit or first 2 hits of a string with a spin or sidestep the opponent will simply finish the string and the character will slide across the floor to realign particularly law with his 3+4 into flying dragon kick (w/e its called) the character slides sideways to realign and I get hit before recovering from the spin. Please continue testing and highlight these issues as well.
It is absolutely a problem. So many moves require to be stepped in this game but then its discouraged by tracking like this. Heat Smashes for example are completely broken because they also randomly track like this as well. Heat Smashes already have absolutely unfair risk reward giving reward on block and on hit.
Her df 1,2 is joke. 2 is litterly jab but some characters I tested like King and Jin are cliped unless its perfect sidewalk. I don't care if they had worse ss if spaced out f1 and ss at whatever timing she is my b&tch for throwning this string, but no i have to have a read and duck with risk of getting cliped by 4 that is ch launcher.
Great video! I did a video awhile back explaining that to solve the issue in T8 side stepping should work like in Virtual Fighter because the tracking is horrible in T8. Another issue which you also mentioned that if you side step and try to attack immediately either you get hit or if you wait to try and do a whiff punish it might not work because the distance. Due to the tracking issue it does not help players that are defensive. I hope they do notice that this is a real issue and that they fix it.
Good video. This issue is even worse with characters who are string heavy like Hwo, Jun, Leo, Nina, etc. Some characters have horrible tracking in comparison and its super frustrating to consistently witness it. I do Paul mirrors with 2 friends and we step each other to either side, and it feels like Tekken - other characters either stick to you like glue even on a good read, or the hitboxes are so absurdly large that you find yourself being counter hit after taking their back while they whiff a string. Heat smashes realigning while you're sidewalking is nauseating to see on screen, like the game is programmed to be as scrubby as possible. This is the only Tekken I find myself taking frequent 1 week breaks from since TTT2.
There's a lot of confusion with sidetepping, people just expect it to be black and white "you can step this move no matter what", which is wrong. To take your example, at that distance you can step it with some timing, but it's not consistent. But if you're right up to Heihachi, you'll step it to the left 100% of the time, and you'll sidewalk it right 100% of the time as well from that +1 you get on jab. Even at the distance you checked, you can sidewalk right 100% of the time, and you can step left 100% IF you could hit the timing 100% of the time (which you can't, you're not a robot). From my testing, it's around 26 frames from the jab starting, give or take a couple frames. Heihachi's df1 has bit of forward momentum, and some of those moves can realign, depending on the distance and timing. But from my testing, if I hit the timing properly, the sidestep is consistent even in your situation, it's just that you only have a window of 2-3 frames to step left. Also 7:00 - that 100% should have worked, because he pressed too early, during your orbital's active frames. When attacking, your hurt box expands. Same thing with strings. Some moves have more tracking than they look like they should, or more than it should balance-wise (like heat burst), but it's hardly random. With the exception of Xiaoyu, all the characters you listed where the Heat Burst has tracking to the left are characters where sidestepping right is their weak side.
Nah you see but that’s the problem! This game favors aggressive buttons. Why do we, on defense, have to think about all this things you mentioned but the aggressor just breaths through his/her mouth!? I guarantee you that, unless it’s a homing attack, any time you’ve gotten clipped while sidestepping, your opponent didn’t calculate that. And at 7:00 the Bryan player just did that orbital in neutral, likely as a get-off me button against pressure. Yet his opponent called out his panick button, saw that he did throw out an attack, but was still hit. You’re telling me it’s his fault for getting clipped by Bryan’s orbital because he attacked too soon? Even if you do, this creator is acknowledging that also while at the same time realizes that NOT attacking and sooner would lead to him missing his punish opportunity. THAT’s a legit issue because rock paper scissors says so!
The worst one is shaheen’s df1. You have to sidewalk it perfectly to the left otherwise it will hit you even at +1. This type of tracking is the most annoying one because it’s on moves that shouldn’t even have any type of tracking, it removes the 3d factor and just pushes you to mash into their mindgames.
Aggravation is an understatement! I was robbed for 6 fights in a row by opponents that just wanna attack! My reads are on point when I stand/crouch block, but the moment I step something I seen/predicted would come, I’m clipped, leading to a knockdown or launcher. Even when I do see that I stepped the first few frames of an attack, I attempt to punish and get clipped by lingering hitboxes! I was demoted from raijin back down to battle emperor, all due to me attempting to play 3D defense. I should have just mashed like my opponents.
A big thing that catches a lot of people out is that you generally need to sidestep after their move has started. because the frame they start the attack, their character rotates to recentre on you (unless you are very off axis, say to their side or behind them), so if you tap step then they press it will probably hit you. for sure thought stepping can often feel mad inconsistent. sidewalk helps because you keep moving I think the main issue is less that moves track too much and more so the hitboxes are too wide, so even when you're too their side it will hit you at close range cause the out edge of the hitbox clips you. also multi hit strings realign during the string way too much... it is also generally how good your characters step is cause I think a lot of newer Tekken players probably don't know that sidestep isn't universal, some characters are better at it than other
Imagine the torso is a rectangle, step right, backfoot moves out rf and front foot follows to going rb ... that means the rectangle is turning away. Step left the front foot goes more LB the rwar foot follows but that brings the tectangle more squate to the opponent.
I agree. Iv noticed this also Iv immediately side stepped after say a jab or whatever and side stepped and the move that comes out I know should be linear and yet I get hit and punished for the side step on a move that should be step able. Basically no point in this game having steps as it’s to inconsistent
Harada's beginner friendly easy solution: Collect 50 lucky clovers before booting the game, then predict the future, then do a just-frame sidestep precisely when the enemy attacks, and then don't ask him for shet
The reason why some moves hit you when you step one side compared to the other is simply because it's their weak vs strong side. for example Bryan is weak to SSR, in 9:36 you bring up how you can sidestep Bryan's heat crush to the right but not the left. It's like every other attack in the game. its supposed to track to his strong side (his left) so if you side step or side walk to his left you will get clipped. It has less tracking but will still actively and frequently track to the weak side. like at 11:08 you ended up showing characters who's heat bursts track to the left side and funny enough, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is SSR. so you are getting clipped because they are tracking to their strong side lmao. Dragunov, King, Leo, Bryan and Jun. the only exception is Xiaoyu who is SSL so that should whiff but it tracks which shouldnt happen. I will say there are some moves in the game that will needlessly track both sides for some dumb reason and that definitely needs to get fixed. that and strings whiffing the first move and tracking on the 2nd and follow up moves. Example would be Jin's entire Kit. he is SSR but has so many moves and strings that will needlessly track there. like his infamous D2 which at this point, a homing CH launch because you can get clipped Sidewalking too on both sides
I've know that certain sides or weaker or stronger for others. But like what you've said in your second paragraph there's moves with needlessly janky tracking. Although my opinion is that all moves have weird tracking depending on coding or frame data or both. On the case of Heat Burst. Patch 1.05 was suppose to remedy the problems with HB tracking so much. They've forget to mention that only half or more of the cast can be SS properly once they've HB on a read, but for Bryan and the ones I've showcased it's only side steppable to the left side. Which means they haven't fully fixed the tracking issue for the game with HB.
@@delusional-lobo ah alright, I see your point. a rule I usually follow that works more than it should, is if you are -5 and below, just SSR. for some reason it works out too well even against people who are SSL. the only thing that may clip you are lows because lows have tracking (which I think is dumb but ay)
sidestepping it wildly weird, and its been weird forever. in tekken 7 if you were -4, you basically had a free sidestep, you could even sidestep and block SOME tracking / homing moves if you were -4, but they removed this from tekken 8. it seems that being somewhat slower with the sidestep works still in t8 but not to the same degree, my theory is if you sidestep too early, youre still on axis with the attack, while if you delay, you get to catch the move while it starts being off axis from you. i found in tekken 8 as well, some strings wont track you UNLESS you attempt to attack, like reinas 3+4,3,3 or whatever the input is in heat, you can sidewalk the whole string but god forbid you try to attack on that last hit, it'll come swinging around to where ever youre standing. i found as well that EVERY yoshi player ive met has said "sidestepping just doesnt work, thats why i use b3 and b4" and that feels too real. historically sidestepping and sidewalking has often felt harder when your character is neutral frames or sometimes even + frames in some cases, its always been easier to sidestep and sidewalk when youre - frames, the exception to this has been preemptively sidewalking or side stepping a move like a wr3 or something.
the way i see it, the game originally was designed in a way where short range moves could be backdashed while long range moves could be sidestepped, its just whiff creation, but they went ahead and changed all the rules randomly cause they felt like it 😂. the way I was taught sidestepping was to look at it as an "infinite range backdash", while a backdash can evade a jab, it cant evade a wr3, and while a sidewalk can evade a wr3, it cant evade a jab (easily). i wish the system made more sense and was more intuitive, but it is what it is. i usually reserve sidesteps and sidewalks for when i already have a good read on the opponents options, but even then they get screwed over anyways 😅
Yea it's very ambiguous. Just now I was doing more testing and depending on the frames, your SS may still get caught or randomly works. For example, this was all tested like, just now: - if I attacked at 5 frames with a jab and went idle for 22 frames then SS at 4 frames from Hachi's DF1 just like in the video, I can escape it. - However, If I attacked at 4 frames with the same jab and went idle for 22 frames and SS at 4 frames, his DF1 connects. This makes no sense, as you attacking doesn't change the overall dynamic of you timing your SS. But for some reason it does. There's even scenarios where if I was 4 frames of attack, 23 frames idle, 4 frames when SS the move gets evaded, but if I tried again with EXACTLY the same frames, it doesn't work, this happens at random. I don't know if this a tracking problem or a SS problem or just janky coding preventing the SS to work.
So in summary, successful sidesteps heavily depend on the timing of your sidestep, if you are pressing buttons afterwards or not, the character you play and their sidestep capabilities and on the range, because moves will often clip you, if you are a bit further away. Frames also play a role, as a standard male character, you couldn't sidestep a jab in Tekken 7 while being - 4, in Tekken 8 it's - 5 and for females - 6, but there are exceptions to this rule, like in Tekken 7, when you were - 8, you couldn't sidestep a linear 20 frame move, even though you had 12 frames for doing it, what would be usually more than enough, but it just became homing if the opponent was +8, no matter how slow the next move was afterwards.
It’s just hitboxes If yours collides with the opponents you get hit This means whenever you try and step you have account for the move, it’s tracking, your distance from the opponent, if they delay, if you delay, frame advantage and how long you step for. It’s not meant to be consistent cuz of all the variables but the skill comes in taking all of them into account and still managing to step. Thats why Knee and co. can make stepping seem so strong. They could make it like virtua fighter and have a yes/no system for stepping but I honestly don’t think that would be as fun ngl
The pros don’t go monkey on the stick. Sidestepping is basically giving aggressive players free wins. I’m learning you either mash back, or wait until they obviously do something unsafe and blow them up on block. Now I’m losing to Law players that mash 444 into DSS f3; I attempted to punish 444 as we’ve been doing since Tekken 5 but now that DSS cancel is easy for fortnight players, my punish met their super-armored heat engager, now IM the one at disadvantage! And lost more health in that trade!
Im glad that someone with more credentials is bring this up because sidestepping/tracking is wildly inconsistent, not just from char to char. I first noticed this when I would sidestep the first move in a string and get hit by the rest. Figured, ok maybe strings track? Come to find out that, especially regarding Yoshi, was wildly inaccurate. This might (for me) come from playing Yoshi for so long in regards to how strong other characters' tracking is compared to his, but when what seemed like fundamental rules of counterplay yielded discrepancies in-game, it had to be a problem 'under the hood' so to speak. Iirc when both players pick p1 side, it really exacerbates these interactions.
Exactly, moves that tend to be side stepped all of a sudden gain more tracking in certain instances. Which ruins that players decision-making skills during a round.
I can relate to a bunch of this a ton. I've been playing a lot of Tekken casually when I was younger and with T8 I was actually striving to try and play well, even if it comes with a huge list of things to know and learn about. Sidestepping has just been extremely confusing. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I've kind of just come to terms with me having a skill issue and only really using it when I have a good read. But I wish things would be more clear on it, rather than praying to the gods that the axis doesn't do cursed stuff
Felt the same way. I'm thinking of just changing my overall habits to a more 2d playstyle and only SS or SW on a read, but it's difficult to get rid of certain habits😅
I definitely can agree with a lot of what you said and I see where you’re coming from. I think that some people is tracking is much better than others, As a Law player he needs to be fixed, his tracking is very poor and he misses a lot of moves, he should hit. I feel like Jin and Bryan are op with tracking. When I use Bryan is air juggles are the easiest to do in a game and almost always connect. It’s so easy to take off between 40% to 65% of your opponents health especially if you’re close to a wall.
My opinion is that most moves have okay tracking, however when it comes to oki, it's like the system completely changes. I'm gonna give you an example, If we take Heihachi cdn3 in consideration, this move has almost 0 tracking in neutral, however when used during a get up, expecially during techrolls, the move connects in the most absurd ways. Kind of the same logic on dragunov sneak 4, where you can sidestep it in neutral but if it's oki time, forget about, it will connect from the back of dragunov, it doesn't matter lol So in conclusion, i think they should touch certain moves that are still a bit too much when it comes to tracking, and then we would be left with "oki setups" that are basically not steppable at all
As long as you are sidewalking it keeps tracking, but if you sidestep and stop it will also stop tracking. Its the difference between evading and getting hit.
I dont know if people noticed but there will be times i would sidestep a move clear as day and say i decide to punish with a heat burst or rage art ,it will go right passed them.why is my tracking off when IM the one who sidestepped.....
Issue with sidestepping is that it is dependable on each character. Some characters have wack sidestep, others have a better one. When i play with Lili, ss into attack sometimes works better than other characters, but yes i do get clipped a lot from trying to do that. It also depends on the character i play against. If they do a linear move i might dodge it and launch them. Characters have moves though that can cover their weakside. Tekken is complicated asf. Not gonna sugarcoat it. But i still like it. Love and hate it at the same time.
This is hypothetical but imagine if theres like a hidden count or Tally system that determines when your allowed to sidestep. For instance maybe after being hit twice you get 1 tally, so now you can sidestep and depending on what you do you gain or lose sidestep tallies.
2:45 because ur testing in a scenario which u are plus on block at, so if u side step immediately they will realign by the time they are out of blockstun, u should record the dummy doing a jab to df1 or make them block a -1 /-2/-3 move instead of a +1 jab
But see, i'm not stepping immediately, I'm timing the moment I can step the move. I've also done tests with df1 as an example where in this case Hachi does a jab into df1, and I'm able to step accordingly to both sides while timed. But my response is that, in a game, you perform the scenario that you've trained for both cases like the one in the video and the one you've suggested, and for some reason you can't step the move because of some weird hiccup of the game's system allowing more tracking than usual. This has happened to many, as well as myself. It's difficult to illustrate it in training mode.
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but a characters neutral stance may impact how consistent the ss is, so if your character moves alot then that may impact your ss. But i'm not 100 on this.
you are correct. It can impact the axis of when you attempt to SS in-game. However, in testing, it's a lot more controlled, so you can see what works and what doesn't. But depending on frame data and the side in which the opp is placed, you'll have weird jank tracking that may happen during a fight.
It's because the game has dynamic difficulty/is scripted. Just like FC25/FIFA or Rocket League. Depending on your performance during the round, you're getting dynamically nerfed or buffed. This includes side steps and whether they work or not.
This is one of the main things I disliked about the game, side stepping is bad in general and not consistent, feels like a 2.5 D game. Makes you appreciate Soul caliber 6 side step way more, feels like a real 3d 8 way game. To overly simplify it the 1 button is horizontal, 2 is vertical. If they hit 2 you can side step, if they hit 1 you duck, some string will have a degree of tracking, but nothing like tekken where it can seem like pure luck. Moves can clearly be seen with either horizontal or vertical effects to let you know and give you ques if it is side step able or not. In tekken the funny part is the game actually has specific homing moves tagged, meaning this is what you should use to counter side stepping, however in practice all moves just magickly seem to have tracking even when you can clearly see its a straight punch. I have seen Yoshi b3/4 get clipped so hard even after spinning for a good 4 spins....its like WTH is this 180 turn auto tracking...
Side stepping while plus 1 against a 13 frame move? Man you're a bold one Anyway,the old man will look to press at -3 or so. A lot of hachis moves like his UF3 is incredibly linear,no tracking at all. His B4? Thats gonna hit your ass if you SSR. You also need to learn that Side walking plays a part as well.
I don’t think you are taking account that characters have breathing frames (frames where you move slightly closer and frames where you move slightly back the character is never truly in one place)
I have taken into account; when Hachi and Bryan are idle they are at 2.00 points of distance unless Hachi decides to do the hand wave mantra thingy😅, then it's either 2.02 or 2.03 I think🤔. So when I'm doing the test, I'm resetting so both idle stances reset as well when I've done the tests.
I only partially agree with you. You didn't really give an argument for why you don't agree with the fact that different characters have different model sizes with different hit boxes and hurt boxes which lead to different situations in which these moves hit. All you said was you don't agree with that. In my opinion this actually explains the difficulty with stepping the moves simply and concisely. Back when Tekken was more polygonal the hitboxes and hurt boxes were less of a gray area. And now that the game has gotten more detailed this is more of a gray area. I do agree that that is annoying because there's definitely instances like the ones that you put forth that seem to be bull shit and that should be fixed by the team
Yea, I really didn't, in the end I felt way more confused as to why moves will just track, when demonstrating a move that can be stepped to both sides. The problem is that depending on frame data it can be stepped or not, but when adding other variables it can make a situation feel more ambiguous and hard to make proper answers to that situation.
@@delusional-lobo I felt the same way watching the video. It is definitely ambiguous just for the sake of being ambiguous which is very frustrating when playing a competitive game. It would be like if a strike zone was smaller just because the pitcher is left handed
My take: Game is working as intended. Moves have hit line segments [Let's just call them hitboxes even though they aren't boxes in this game] in 3d space. Characters have hurt boxes. And tracking is a characters ability to turn to the opponent during a move (To the left, to the right, or both) Heat burst examples - Yea they are linear [The characters do not turn to face Heihachi] --- but they still punch the opponent in the left arm/leg on SSL. In these cases you are stepping into the existing trajectory of a punch - which obviously doesn't avoid it. For strings that end with a move that tracks well -- It's your fault if you press into them --- think of them as homing moves where you get a second chance to block if you step them [or land a CH if there's time] -- you guessed wrong by stepping these strings your character can't punish. For some moves and some characters there are going to be edge cases where you'll find inconsistent behaviour. This will always be the case due to the nature of the game. Only real solution is to build a new 3D fighter from the ground up where moves are flagged to not work when the opponent is stepping left/right -- instead of how Tekken does things [Just check if the hitboxes/hurtboxes collide --- and disable the hitboxes when the opponent is high crushing highs or is invincible] But that would remove a lot from the game [Mostly peoples ability to find Tech]
Extra note. I get that it's not the players job to understand how the game works and it can be frustrating if you think a move is _supposed_ to be possible to step but your character can't because he happens to be fat in the place the move hits.
@@delusional-lobo the entire video, you spent 10 minutes talking about tracking on a move that has terrible tracking and sidestep being weak when a sidewalk would entirely evaid heihachi df1 in either direction
@KaibaKaioh if it has terrible tracking, then a sidewalk wouldn't be necessary. Again, you didn't understand the problem as to why issues like this can be exasperated depending on how certain circumstances can trigger more tracking in a move. The video is to showcase that df1 as the "constant" in the testing already may cause more tracking. In a controlled environment, it's difficult to replicate it. For example, you've stated to just SW. But you can only SW right not left at the current distance shown in the video. In an actual match, varying changes of your axis and distance can overall change the tracking of a move, making it more confusing to determine which side is best to SS or SW. This is why I think that tracking is an issue in the game.
dude you are just mashing side step you know its a timing thing right? also just came from looking at the I have no mains video and you are losing viewers becasue everyone that watched you watched for yoshi you stopped playing yoshi so people stopped watching its not really going to mater who you play unless you play yoshi those viewers are not coming back
I'm not mashing side steps. I'm both buffering the side step in one instant and timing it in the other. The only way the attack can be side stepped to the side where it was at its most difficult to step was if you perfectly timed the side step frame perfectly. Although in a training environment may seem easy, however, in an actual match, it will drastically change as hitboxes and camera angles can change the tracking. That's the purpose of the video. Also, on the viewers part, I've known for a while that the viewers only cared to watch my Yoshi content as I was already getting burned out from playing him and not liking his changes in T8. If players don't want to watch my content, on the things that I wish to put out, then it is completely fine with me losing viewers or subs. I want to do what's fun.
@@delusional-lobo To be fair bryan specifically has poor sidestep even below lee ngl. with that being said pretty much the entire cast can ssr the 2 of df1,2*. Also ssr the first df1 is kinda misinformation due to its high inconsistence though possible to do so. Also +1 and -1 changes the nature of how df1 tracks for ssr.
@@royce536 I understand that, although that doesn't change the purpose of the video, that moves in the game have increased tracking depending of the situation. Using hachi's df1 is an example. While SS is different with all characters that doesn't make the discussion on tracking being janky untrue. It's also not misinformation. I'm only showcasing that SSR on df1 is possible but difficult because of the issue with tracking. By the by, since you've mentioned Lee. Lee can SSR consistently from df1 for some reason if timed.
@@delusional-lobo it also doesn't help that for Bryan to escape hei's df1 he can't be below or exceed 20f of delay before the next "d" input (e.g timestamps 3:20 and 4:07). This implies you have to be frame perfect. I suspect that some characters have leniency when it comes to this, I don't think lili is limited to a single frame of opportunity to avoid a df1 after being +1. As others have mentioned + frames and - frames play a huge part in realignment. Maybe Bryan needs to be -3 as opposed to +1 to reduce realignment?
I'm going to state this: The gameplay that I show with matches against the Heihachi is just background filler so you guys don't get bored with my discussion. Besides the few points where I highlight the few moments from those clips when I was editing, it's by no means a showcase of the initial discussion of the video. Hachi is just used as the control group because of a video I've seen that led me to experiment with the tracking issue.
Can't believe stepping which is what used to separate Tekken from other fighting games is now a feature that can randomly work or not. It seems even stepping is a 50/50 in this game 😂
I see you are as always pissed about the game.
@@Aftab_Shaik I mean why not voice your opinion about a game with flaws in the comment section of a video about that game?
@@Aftab_ShaikNot being pissed at this game is a problem for the game these days.
@@SnowflakeSSQ i not saying it’s bad or anything. Just being a little optimistic that’s all.
@@lingxiaoyu9038 I thought that FGC is soo good since last month i have been seeing hate about tekken for the first time. New to FG’s btw.
I mean, this issue is kinda part of the reason people hate yoshi, because he has a sidestep that actually works the way sidestepping and sidewalking is somewhat supposed too. Ie, actually evades.
Right. If Bandai were to decrease the tracking in everyone's moves, then side steps can actually work as intended in a 3-demensional game. They've managed to nerf DJ demon paw tracking. That's a tell that tracking is overturned and can be reduced.
But from patch to patch, they've only been buffing tracking in characters strings😑
@@delusional-lobo Exactly, movement isn't really a priority in this game design, so when you have a character that can actually move, they become "broken".
Decrease the tracking of moves a bit, and you'll see a much more movement based play style.
no people hate yoshi’s b3 and b4 because theres multiple clips on yt and twitter of homing moves legit whiffing through yoshi when hes already minus before spin
@@xHuie well that's definitely another factor for sure😅
So true… However, as a Yoshi player myself, I need you to stop lying on my character’s name. Trying to get us nerfed 🤣
Finally someone who doesn't excuse or ignore the stepping issue. Regardless of timings, Steps or sidewalks are wild inconsistent. Lost count of the DF2 that launched my SS/SW on read. But randomly whiff when I attempted to step something else and my opps are now uppercutting air. An attack whiffs twice on random SS timings then proceed to 180 turn or track when I step-launch or step-block even in training with the same timings/frames. Walking improves the evasion but it's now the new YOLO forcing you to block more which puts you in a constant disadvantage or set you up for CH in some characters who are constant + in their moves/strings.
It's wild annoying for sure, like; T7 had it's SS/SW problems but not to this extent from what I recall.
@delusional-lobo True. I love movement. Step launches were my T7 staple. Step jet-upper was the fear of my friends. Now. You either walking long enough to evade the string/poke but not enough to launch/punish in time or get hit the moment you stop holding the walk without a press too. Which is odd that they even 180 without a press sometimes too.
Step lees ff3 5 times in a row. It’s so oppressive because of the side step jank lol
I wish the game just adopted the VF system of, if you sidestep, you're just invulnerable to moves that are supposed to be able to be sidestepped. It just feels like an unnecessary variable where Lili can sidestep everything for free and bears are just told to fuck off
The amount of times I’m on the side of someone’s linear attack and still get hit. Is entirely to high.
If you successfully sidestep Bryan's (and others) heat smash IE avoid the knee he will realign in mid-air sometimes a full 180 to hit you with the punch. As a Yoshi player my b3/4 spin gets clipped all the time and if I evade the first hit or first 2 hits of a string with a spin or sidestep the opponent will simply finish the string and the character will slide across the floor to realign particularly law with his 3+4 into flying dragon kick (w/e its called) the character slides sideways to realign and I get hit before recovering from the spin. Please continue testing and highlight these issues as well.
It is absolutely a problem. So many moves require to be stepped in this game but then its discouraged by tracking like this. Heat Smashes for example are completely broken because they also randomly track like this as well. Heat Smashes already have absolutely unfair risk reward giving reward on block and on hit.
Nina has insane tracking on her strings. U can’t side step/walk it
Her df 1,2 is joke. 2 is litterly jab but some characters I tested like King and Jin are cliped unless its perfect sidewalk. I don't care if they had worse ss if spaced out f1 and ss at whatever timing she is my b&tch for throwning this string, but no i have to have a read and duck with risk of getting cliped by 4 that is ch launcher.
Great video! I did a video awhile back explaining that to solve the issue in T8 side stepping should work like in Virtual Fighter because the tracking is horrible in T8. Another issue which you also mentioned that if you side step and try to attack immediately either you get hit or if you wait to try and do a whiff punish it might not work because the distance. Due to the tracking issue it does not help players that are defensive. I hope they do notice that this is a real issue and that they fix it.
Good video. This issue is even worse with characters who are string heavy like Hwo, Jun, Leo, Nina, etc. Some characters have horrible tracking in comparison and its super frustrating to consistently witness it.
I do Paul mirrors with 2 friends and we step each other to either side, and it feels like Tekken - other characters either stick to you like glue even on a good read, or the hitboxes are so absurdly large that you find yourself being counter hit after taking their back while they whiff a string.
Heat smashes realigning while you're sidewalking is nauseating to see on screen, like the game is programmed to be as scrubby as possible.
This is the only Tekken I find myself taking frequent 1 week breaks from since TTT2.
There's a lot of confusion with sidetepping, people just expect it to be black and white "you can step this move no matter what", which is wrong. To take your example, at that distance you can step it with some timing, but it's not consistent. But if you're right up to Heihachi, you'll step it to the left 100% of the time, and you'll sidewalk it right 100% of the time as well from that +1 you get on jab. Even at the distance you checked, you can sidewalk right 100% of the time, and you can step left 100% IF you could hit the timing 100% of the time (which you can't, you're not a robot). From my testing, it's around 26 frames from the jab starting, give or take a couple frames.
Heihachi's df1 has bit of forward momentum, and some of those moves can realign, depending on the distance and timing. But from my testing, if I hit the timing properly, the sidestep is consistent even in your situation, it's just that you only have a window of 2-3 frames to step left.
Also 7:00 - that 100% should have worked, because he pressed too early, during your orbital's active frames. When attacking, your hurt box expands. Same thing with strings.
Some moves have more tracking than they look like they should, or more than it should balance-wise (like heat burst), but it's hardly random. With the exception of Xiaoyu, all the characters you listed where the Heat Burst has tracking to the left are characters where sidestepping right is their weak side.
Nah you see but that’s the problem! This game favors aggressive buttons. Why do we, on defense, have to think about all this things you mentioned but the aggressor just breaths through his/her mouth!? I guarantee you that, unless it’s a homing attack, any time you’ve gotten clipped while sidestepping, your opponent didn’t calculate that. And at 7:00 the Bryan player just did that orbital in neutral, likely as a get-off me button against pressure. Yet his opponent called out his panick button, saw that he did throw out an attack, but was still hit. You’re telling me it’s his fault for getting clipped by Bryan’s orbital because he attacked too soon? Even if you do, this creator is acknowledging that also while at the same time realizes that NOT attacking and sooner would lead to him missing his punish opportunity. THAT’s a legit issue because rock paper scissors says so!
The worst one is shaheen’s df1. You have to sidewalk it perfectly to the left otherwise it will hit you even at +1. This type of tracking is the most annoying one because it’s on moves that shouldn’t even have any type of tracking, it removes the 3d factor and just pushes you to mash into their mindgames.
And I thought I was going crazy its tottaly true what u are saying
Aggravation is an understatement! I was robbed for 6 fights in a row by opponents that just wanna attack! My reads are on point when I stand/crouch block, but the moment I step something I seen/predicted would come, I’m clipped, leading to a knockdown or launcher. Even when I do see that I stepped the first few frames of an attack, I attempt to punish and get clipped by lingering hitboxes! I was demoted from raijin back down to battle emperor, all due to me attempting to play 3D defense. I should have just mashed like my opponents.
A big thing that catches a lot of people out is that you generally need to sidestep after their move has started.
because the frame they start the attack, their character rotates to recentre on you (unless you are very off axis, say to their side or behind them), so if you tap step then they press it will probably hit you.
for sure thought stepping can often feel mad inconsistent.
sidewalk helps because you keep moving
I think the main issue is less that moves track too much and more so the hitboxes are too wide, so even when you're too their side it will hit you at close range cause the out edge of the hitbox clips you.
also multi hit strings realign during the string way too much...
it is also generally how good your characters step is cause I think a lot of newer Tekken players probably don't know that sidestep isn't universal, some characters are better at it than other
Imagine the torso is a rectangle, step right, backfoot moves out rf and front foot follows to going rb ... that means the rectangle is turning away. Step left the front foot goes more LB the rwar foot follows but that brings the tectangle more squate to the opponent.
I agree. Iv noticed this also Iv immediately side stepped after say a jab or whatever and side stepped and the move that comes out I know should be linear and yet I get hit and punished for the side step on a move that should be step able. Basically no point in this game having steps as it’s to inconsistent
Harada's beginner friendly easy solution: Collect 50 lucky clovers before booting the game, then predict the future, then do a just-frame sidestep precisely when the enemy attacks, and then don't ask him for shet
The reason why some moves hit you when you step one side compared to the other is simply because it's their weak vs strong side. for example Bryan is weak to SSR, in 9:36 you bring up how you can sidestep Bryan's heat crush to the right but not the left. It's like every other attack in the game. its supposed to track to his strong side (his left) so if you side step or side walk to his left you will get clipped. It has less tracking but will still actively and frequently track to the weak side. like at 11:08 you ended up showing characters who's heat bursts track to the left side and funny enough, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is SSR. so you are getting clipped because they are tracking to their strong side lmao. Dragunov, King, Leo, Bryan and Jun. the only exception is Xiaoyu who is SSL so that should whiff but it tracks which shouldnt happen.
I will say there are some moves in the game that will needlessly track both sides for some dumb reason and that definitely needs to get fixed. that and strings whiffing the first move and tracking on the 2nd and follow up moves. Example would be Jin's entire Kit. he is SSR but has so many moves and strings that will needlessly track there. like his infamous D2 which at this point, a homing CH launch because you can get clipped Sidewalking too on both sides
I've know that certain sides or weaker or stronger for others. But like what you've said in your second paragraph there's moves with needlessly janky tracking. Although my opinion is that all moves have weird tracking depending on coding or frame data or both.
On the case of Heat Burst. Patch 1.05 was suppose to remedy the problems with HB tracking so much. They've forget to mention that only half or more of the cast can be SS properly once they've HB on a read, but for Bryan and the ones I've showcased it's only side steppable to the left side. Which means they haven't fully fixed the tracking issue for the game with HB.
@@delusional-lobo ah alright, I see your point. a rule I usually follow that works more than it should, is if you are -5 and below, just SSR. for some reason it works out too well even against people who are SSL. the only thing that may clip you are lows because lows have tracking (which I think is dumb but ay)
@@Biscord I agree 😄
sidestepping it wildly weird, and its been weird forever. in tekken 7 if you were -4, you basically had a free sidestep, you could even sidestep and block SOME tracking / homing moves if you were -4, but they removed this from tekken 8. it seems that being somewhat slower with the sidestep works still in t8 but not to the same degree, my theory is if you sidestep too early, youre still on axis with the attack, while if you delay, you get to catch the move while it starts being off axis from you. i found in tekken 8 as well, some strings wont track you UNLESS you attempt to attack, like reinas 3+4,3,3 or whatever the input is in heat, you can sidewalk the whole string but god forbid you try to attack on that last hit, it'll come swinging around to where ever youre standing. i found as well that EVERY yoshi player ive met has said "sidestepping just doesnt work, thats why i use b3 and b4" and that feels too real.
historically sidestepping and sidewalking has often felt harder when your character is neutral frames or sometimes even + frames in some cases, its always been easier to sidestep and sidewalk when youre - frames, the exception to this has been preemptively sidewalking or side stepping a move like a wr3 or something.
the way i see it, the game originally was designed in a way where short range moves could be backdashed while long range moves could be sidestepped, its just whiff creation, but they went ahead and changed all the rules randomly cause they felt like it 😂. the way I was taught sidestepping was to look at it as an "infinite range backdash", while a backdash can evade a jab, it cant evade a wr3, and while a sidewalk can evade a wr3, it cant evade a jab (easily). i wish the system made more sense and was more intuitive, but it is what it is.
i usually reserve sidesteps and sidewalks for when i already have a good read on the opponents options, but even then they get screwed over anyways 😅
Yea it's very ambiguous. Just now I was doing more testing and depending on the frames, your SS may still get caught or randomly works. For example, this was all tested like, just now:
- if I attacked at 5 frames with a jab and went idle for 22 frames then SS at 4 frames from Hachi's DF1 just like in the video, I can escape it.
- However, If I attacked at 4 frames with the same jab and went idle for 22 frames and SS at 4 frames, his DF1 connects.
This makes no sense, as you attacking doesn't change the overall dynamic of you timing your SS. But for some reason it does. There's even scenarios where if I was 4 frames of attack, 23 frames idle, 4 frames when SS the move gets evaded, but if I tried again with EXACTLY the same frames, it doesn't work, this happens at random.
I don't know if this a tracking problem or a SS problem or just janky coding preventing the SS to work.
So in summary, successful sidesteps heavily depend on the timing of your sidestep, if you are pressing buttons afterwards or not, the character you play and their sidestep capabilities and on the range, because moves will often clip you, if you are a bit further away.
Frames also play a role, as a standard male character, you couldn't sidestep a jab in Tekken 7 while being - 4, in Tekken 8 it's - 5 and for females - 6, but there are exceptions to this rule, like in Tekken 7, when you were - 8, you couldn't sidestep a linear 20 frame move, even though you had 12 frames for doing it, what would be usually more than enough, but it just became homing if the opponent was +8, no matter how slow the next move was afterwards.
It’s just hitboxes
If yours collides with the opponents you get hit
This means whenever you try and step you have account for the move, it’s tracking, your distance from the opponent, if they delay, if you delay, frame advantage and how long you step for.
It’s not meant to be consistent cuz of all the variables but the skill comes in taking all of them into account and still managing to step. Thats why Knee and co. can make stepping seem so strong.
They could make it like virtua fighter and have a yes/no system for stepping but I honestly don’t think that would be as fun ngl
I will agree the tracking on some moves and strings is too strong but it’s up to you whether you wanna attempt to step those
The pros don’t go monkey on the stick. Sidestepping is basically giving aggressive players free wins. I’m learning you either mash back, or wait until they obviously do something unsafe and blow them up on block. Now I’m losing to Law players that mash 444 into DSS f3; I attempted to punish 444 as we’ve been doing since Tekken 5 but now that DSS cancel is easy for fortnight players, my punish met their super-armored heat engager, now IM the one at disadvantage! And lost more health in that trade!
Im glad that someone with more credentials is bring this up because sidestepping/tracking is wildly inconsistent, not just from char to char. I first noticed this when I would sidestep the first move in a string and get hit by the rest. Figured, ok maybe strings track? Come to find out that, especially regarding Yoshi, was wildly inaccurate.
This might (for me) come from playing Yoshi for so long in regards to how strong other characters' tracking is compared to his, but when what seemed like fundamental rules of counterplay yielded discrepancies in-game, it had to be a problem 'under the hood' so to speak.
Iirc when both players pick p1 side, it really exacerbates these interactions.
Exactly, moves that tend to be side stepped all of a sudden gain more tracking in certain instances. Which ruins that players decision-making skills during a round.
I can relate to a bunch of this a ton.
I've been playing a lot of Tekken casually when I was younger and with T8 I was actually striving to try and play well, even if it comes with a huge list of things to know and learn about.
Sidestepping has just been extremely confusing. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I've kind of just come to terms with me having a skill issue and only really using it when I have a good read.
But I wish things would be more clear on it, rather than praying to the gods that the axis doesn't do cursed stuff
Felt the same way. I'm thinking of just changing my overall habits to a more 2d playstyle and only SS or SW on a read, but it's difficult to get rid of certain habits😅
I definitely can agree with a lot of what you said and I see where you’re coming from. I think that some people is tracking is much better than others, As a Law player he needs to be fixed, his tracking is very poor and he misses a lot of moves, he should hit. I feel like Jin and Bryan are op with tracking. When I use Bryan is air juggles are the easiest to do in a game and almost always connect. It’s so easy to take off between 40% to 65% of your opponents health especially if you’re close to a wall.
My opinion is that most moves have okay tracking, however when it comes to oki, it's like the system completely changes.
I'm gonna give you an example,
If we take Heihachi cdn3 in consideration, this move has almost 0 tracking in neutral, however when used during a get up, expecially during techrolls, the move connects in the most absurd ways.
Kind of the same logic on dragunov sneak 4, where you can sidestep it in neutral but if it's oki time, forget about, it will connect from the back of dragunov, it doesn't matter lol
So in conclusion, i think they should touch certain moves that are still a bit too much when it comes to tracking, and then we would be left with "oki setups" that are basically not steppable at all
As long as you are sidewalking it keeps tracking, but if you sidestep and stop it will also stop tracking. Its the difference between evading and getting hit.
I dont know if people noticed but there will be times i would sidestep a move clear as day and say i decide to punish with a heat burst or rage art ,it will go right passed them.why is my tracking off when IM the one who sidestepped.....
Issue with sidestepping is that it is dependable on each character. Some characters have wack sidestep, others have a better one. When i play with Lili, ss into attack sometimes works better than other characters, but yes i do get clipped a lot from trying to do that. It also depends on the character i play against. If they do a linear move i might dodge it and launch them. Characters have moves though that can cover their weakside. Tekken is complicated asf. Not gonna sugarcoat it. But i still like it. Love and hate it at the same time.
same, I really like the game at times and in others I'm just hovering on the uninstall button 😂
@@delusional-lobo I sometimes feel like smashing my controller tbh. But hell no, i try to calm down, those ps5 controllers are expensive asf.
Can't believe despite this people still consider "not having" tracking a weakness.
This is hypothetical but imagine if theres like a hidden count or Tally system that determines when your allowed to sidestep.
For instance maybe after being hit twice you get 1 tally, so now you can sidestep and depending on what you do you gain or lose sidestep tallies.
if there were, I'll be pissed and slightly intrigued 🤔. Interesting idea.
@@delusional-lobo id be pissed too, but after like every couple hits your miraculously able to step the move
@@spooky4223 😂😂
You may want to use jin/shaheen for these things. They have the standard hurtbox for males
2:45 because ur testing in a scenario which u are plus on block at, so if u side step immediately they will realign by the time they are out of blockstun, u should record the dummy doing a jab to df1 or make them block a -1 /-2/-3 move instead of a +1 jab
But see, i'm not stepping immediately, I'm timing the moment I can step the move. I've also done tests with df1 as an example where in this case Hachi does a jab into df1, and I'm able to step accordingly to both sides while timed. But my response is that, in a game, you perform the scenario that you've trained for both cases like the one in the video and the one you've suggested, and for some reason you can't step the move because of some weird hiccup of the game's system allowing more tracking than usual.
This has happened to many, as well as myself. It's difficult to illustrate it in training mode.
Don't make +1, make it -3 and immediately side step, you can always side step df1 (ss left or right depen on character you against)
@@ahmadkhofil837 true
@@delusional-lobo so the point is if you in +frame side step is bad, you better side walk
@@ahmadkhofil837 df2? what about df1?
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but a characters neutral stance may impact how consistent the ss is, so if your character moves alot then that may impact your ss. But i'm not 100 on this.
you are correct. It can impact the axis of when you attempt to SS in-game. However, in testing, it's a lot more controlled, so you can see what works and what doesn't. But depending on frame data and the side in which the opp is placed, you'll have weird jank tracking that may happen during a fight.
It's because the game has dynamic difficulty/is scripted. Just like FC25/FIFA or Rocket League. Depending on your performance during the round, you're getting dynamically nerfed or buffed. This includes side steps and whether they work or not.
This is one of the main things I disliked about the game, side stepping is bad in general and not consistent, feels like a 2.5 D game.
Makes you appreciate Soul caliber 6 side step way more, feels like a real 3d 8 way game. To overly simplify it the 1 button is horizontal, 2 is vertical. If they hit 2 you can side step, if they hit 1 you duck, some string will have a degree of tracking, but nothing like tekken where it can seem like pure luck. Moves can clearly be seen with either horizontal or vertical effects to let you know and give you ques if it is side step able or not.
In tekken the funny part is the game actually has specific homing moves tagged, meaning this is what you should use to counter side stepping, however in practice all moves just magickly seem to have tracking even when you can clearly see its a straight punch. I have seen Yoshi b3/4 get clipped so hard even after spinning for a good 4 spins....its like WTH is this 180 turn auto tracking...
Just make it consistent. There’s so many mediocre moves that become oppressive because of this inconsistency.
Side stepping while plus 1 against a 13 frame move? Man you're a bold one
Anyway,the old man will look to press at -3 or so. A lot of hachis moves like his UF3 is incredibly linear,no tracking at all. His B4? Thats gonna hit your ass if you SSR. You also need to learn that Side walking plays a part as well.
They need to re-nerf the tracking on Heat Bursts
i agree
Solution: never sidestep, always aggro 💀 (I'm red ranks btw)
Probably have to play 2d at all times now lol
And thats where youll stay mashing bum😂
I don’t think you are taking account that characters have breathing frames (frames where you move slightly closer and frames where you move slightly back the character is never truly in one place)
I have taken into account; when Hachi and Bryan are idle they are at 2.00 points of distance unless Hachi decides to do the hand wave mantra thingy😅, then it's either 2.02 or 2.03 I think🤔. So when I'm doing the test, I'm resetting so both idle stances reset as well when I've done the tests.
Well he schooled you
HAH. those first few seconds of video were for me.
nah...😏😉
I only partially agree with you. You didn't really give an argument for why you don't agree with the fact that different characters have different model sizes with different hit boxes and hurt boxes which lead to different situations in which these moves hit. All you said was you don't agree with that. In my opinion this actually explains the difficulty with stepping the moves simply and concisely. Back when Tekken was more polygonal the hitboxes and hurt boxes were less of a gray area. And now that the game has gotten more detailed this is more of a gray area. I do agree that that is annoying because there's definitely instances like the ones that you put forth that seem to be bull shit and that should be fixed by the team
Yea, I really didn't, in the end I felt way more confused as to why moves will just track, when demonstrating a move that can be stepped to both sides. The problem is that depending on frame data it can be stepped or not, but when adding other variables it can make a situation feel more ambiguous and hard to make proper answers to that situation.
@@delusional-lobo I felt the same way watching the video. It is definitely ambiguous just for the sake of being ambiguous which is very frustrating when playing a competitive game. It would be like if a strike zone was smaller just because the pitcher is left handed
@@Pwnr145 exactly
My take:
Game is working as intended.
Moves have hit line segments [Let's just call them hitboxes even though they aren't boxes in this game] in 3d space. Characters have hurt boxes. And tracking is a characters ability to turn to the opponent during a move (To the left, to the right, or both)
Heat burst examples - Yea they are linear [The characters do not turn to face Heihachi] --- but they still punch the opponent in the left arm/leg on SSL. In these cases you are stepping into the existing trajectory of a punch - which obviously doesn't avoid it.
For strings that end with a move that tracks well -- It's your fault if you press into them --- think of them as homing moves where you get a second chance to block if you step them [or land a CH if there's time] -- you guessed wrong by stepping these strings your character can't punish.
For some moves and some characters there are going to be edge cases where you'll find inconsistent behaviour.
This will always be the case due to the nature of the game. Only real solution is to build a new 3D fighter from the ground up where moves are flagged to not work when the opponent is stepping left/right -- instead of how Tekken does things [Just check if the hitboxes/hurtboxes collide --- and disable the hitboxes when the opponent is high crushing highs or is invincible]
But that would remove a lot from the game [Mostly peoples ability to find Tech]
Extra note.
I get that it's not the players job to understand how the game works and it can be frustrating if you think a move is _supposed_ to be possible to step but your character can't because he happens to be fat in the place the move hits.
Sidewalk
How far in the video did you watch?
@@delusional-lobo the entire video, you spent 10 minutes talking about tracking on a move that has terrible tracking and sidestep being weak when a sidewalk would entirely evaid heihachi df1 in either direction
@KaibaKaioh if it has terrible tracking, then a sidewalk wouldn't be necessary. Again, you didn't understand the problem as to why issues like this can be exasperated depending on how certain circumstances can trigger more tracking in a move.
The video is to showcase that df1 as the "constant" in the testing already may cause more tracking. In a controlled environment, it's difficult to replicate it. For example, you've stated to just SW. But you can only SW right not left at the current distance shown in the video. In an actual match, varying changes of your axis and distance can overall change the tracking of a move, making it more confusing to determine which side is best to SS or SW.
This is why I think that tracking is an issue in the game.
I side walk all the time with yoshi sometimes they blow right by me
ay😏
this is why i just play lili🤷🏽♂️
Tracken 8
dude you are just mashing side step you know its a timing thing right? also just came from looking at the I have no mains video and you are losing viewers becasue everyone that watched you watched for yoshi you stopped playing yoshi so people stopped watching its not really going to mater who you play unless you play yoshi those viewers are not coming back
I'm not mashing side steps. I'm both buffering the side step in one instant and timing it in the other.
The only way the attack can be side stepped to the side where it was at its most difficult to step was if you perfectly timed the side step frame perfectly.
Although in a training environment may seem easy, however, in an actual match, it will drastically change as hitboxes and camera angles can change the tracking.
That's the purpose of the video.
Also, on the viewers part, I've known for a while that the viewers only cared to watch my Yoshi content as I was already getting burned out from playing him and not liking his changes in T8. If players don't want to watch my content, on the things that I wish to put out, then it is completely fine with me losing viewers or subs. I want to do what's fun.
💀
@@delusional-lobo To be fair bryan specifically has poor sidestep even below lee ngl. with that being said pretty much the entire cast can ssr the 2 of df1,2*. Also ssr the first df1 is kinda misinformation due to its high inconsistence though possible to do so. Also +1 and -1 changes the nature of how df1 tracks for ssr.
@@royce536 I understand that, although that doesn't change the purpose of the video, that moves in the game have increased tracking depending of the situation. Using hachi's df1 is an example. While SS is different with all characters that doesn't make the discussion on tracking being janky untrue. It's also not misinformation. I'm only showcasing that SSR on df1 is possible but difficult because of the issue with tracking.
By the by, since you've mentioned Lee. Lee can SSR consistently from df1 for some reason if timed.
@@delusional-lobo it also doesn't help that for Bryan to escape hei's df1 he can't be below or exceed 20f of delay before the next "d" input (e.g timestamps 3:20 and 4:07). This implies you have to be frame perfect. I suspect that some characters have leniency when it comes to this, I don't think lili is limited to a single frame of opportunity to avoid a df1 after being +1.
As others have mentioned + frames and - frames play a huge part in realignment. Maybe Bryan needs to be -3 as opposed to +1 to reduce realignment?