J. Krishnamurti - Brockwood Park 1976 - The Transformation of Man - 5 - Your image of yourself...
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- J. Krishnamurti - Brockwood Park 1976 - Small Group Discussion 5 - Your image of yourself prevents relationship
Summary:
Is there such a thing as the unconscious?
The process of fragmentation is a state of mind that divides, that says there is the unconscious and the conscious.
Every human being has an image of himself of which he is unconscious, not aware. What is the origin of making images about oneself?
Who is the image-maker? What is the machinery or the process that is making images? Our consciousness is our images, conclusions, ideas. If there is no image-making then what is consciousness?
As long as we have images there is not going to be peace in the world, there will be no love in the world.
If one remains with the fact there is a transformation.
---
This channel is managed by the Krishnamurti Foundation Trust, UK, and by the Krishnamurti Foundation of America.
The role of the foundations was described by Krishnamurti when he said, 'The foundations will see to it that these teachings are kept whole, are not distorted, are not made corrupt. They will not give rise to any sectarian spirit in their activities... nor create any kind of place of worship around the teachings or the person.'
We maintain extensive archives of Krishnamurti's original works and all four Krishnamurti foundations are actively engaged in the publication of material in various forms.
Our videos contain thousands of subtitles in more than 25 languages, translated by volunteers from all over the world. If you would like to help us with translating subtitles, please contact us at digital@kfoundation.org
For more information about J. Krishnamurti and the Krishnamurti foundations:
International Site - www.jkrishnamur...
Facebook - / jk.krishnamurti
Twitter - / orgkrishnamurti
Krishnamurti Foundation Trust, UK - www.kfoundation...
Krishnamurti Foundation of America - www.kfa.org/
Krishnamurti Foundation of India - www.kfionline.org/
Fundación Krishnamurti Latinoamericana - www.fkla.org/
This organization is a registered charity. Registered charity number: 312865
© 1976 Krishnamurti Foundation Trust
![ลองสั่งของจากแอพ temu ถูกจริงหรอ?? [โกงไหมครับ ep.88 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RTcZSQTiDZw/mqdefault.jpg)
As K points out, even if you don't have an image about yourself society will impose one on you. If you do not fit into the idea of how society thinks you should be you are rejected, if you conform then you are accepted as long as you do not step out of line. Just look at those who identify themselves with a political or religious group, you are an enemy to those people if you do not fit their image, but if you fit their image they welcome you. It's how David Bohm pointed out earlier in the conversation, a man tied to a post thinks he is free until he moves towards to the edge, the rope will yank him back.
So while a man with no self-image will have a relationship to those who do have self-images, those people with self-images cannot have a relationship to that man who has no image.
what is "you"?
Sooner and later it'll make you God
That is amazing. Thank you for pointing out
Non vedevo l'ora di arrivare del lavoro per ascoltare la conversazione.
😊Grazie
j.krishnamurti you was more than the messi... i´m so graithful knowing you throu yours videos.
Profound!
Thanks for posting.
All the seven talks are much important to those who are ready to change or transform them selves, Its really a heart touching and transforming us. many many regards to KFI, for sharing such a marvelous dialogue among us. Thanks a lot.
Thank y’all so much for sharing This . ❤️☮️🌎🙏🏼
Thank you so much for uploading this video. It’s precious
Dr.shainberg is inevitably important to me to clear the doubts and to keep the conversation practical
Unfortunately he is not a good listener
@@sarikas1352 He was still skeptic just like we are.
Yes he is, I just get frustrated sometimes when he doesn't understand the point like Bohm does and kinda stops the conversation from flowing but... well lets say he's there and that's how things are, cool.
What K says is utterly practical.
@@badwings4611 not quite all of us.
"What is expected to be forgotten, is twice remembered."
Siddharameshwar Maharaj
I have spent many an hour listening to Krishnamurti.
good
hope you got no image about yourself now
That's the question!
Wonderful! Wonderful! Wonderful!
Even if I dont have an image and if everyother has his or her own image, then we have no relationship, plus society will try to impose an image abt me on me, unless I isolate by virtue of being alone as explained in the prev part ...what we have done to us is simply appalling.So, stepping out of this stream/herd is an extremely courageous act.JK explains with such clarity , a true investigator/ speaker!
I am speechless. And I rather remain with that.
“ Is there a child who has no image of himself? He can’t be hurt if he has no image of himself. “
Is there a nobody, as a noone who is imageless, Clarity, Seeing, dissolves the illusionary impermanence called " me"... Truth the invisible mystery, Observing, Listening, Learning, Experiencing, Witnessing, Love, Freedom....
Freedom from the Known, the dissolution is the revealing....
Namaste 🙏
What kind of image is it good or bad
Awesome
Love in human form
Just awesome depth and clarity what a beautiful dialogue 💯
17:00
We divide the mind into conscious and unconscious. Is unconscious really a thing? Or is our unconscious image so obviously there, and we just say it is ‘hidden’ or ‘deep down’?
19:30
Bohm explains Pleasure can’t exist without Pain because if you have an image and treat it as real, then when you get a compliment, it reinforces your image and you feel good (pleasure), but then one can come along and say you suck, and you feel bad (pain).
34:00
Bohm Rope Analogy - You Are Not Free With an Image
Have an image of yourself and your child is like being tied to a rope. You move around with the rope latched on your neck and you proclaim, “I’m free!” but you’re attached to a rope. So the image (rope) dominates the whole thing. You are never free. So you never have a relationship with a child. It’s a sort of ‘phantom relationship’.
56:00
Bohm points out to say that “ it can’t be done” (to exist in peace without images, to stop creating images) is another image… so can the mind stay with the fact, that no images are necessary?
That's just it. We say we have an unconscious & that it is hidden... How do we know that it is hidden? If we say it is hidden then don't we already know that it is there!? So it's really not hidden is it? Could this just be the conscious deceiving itself? Thanks for uploading all these (-̮̮-̃)b
+gtileo to eat, to sleep is not desire, that is intelligence of body, cells need sun, air, nutrition, rest
how beautifully you have put it
Well the notion of hidden means we know it is there but we don't know what is in it. We may have discovered that through psychotherapy we managed to remember some traumatizing event from childhood that we were totally unaware of before, we may have forgotten it for decades, but we managed to reopen it. So when we go through this, then we know something is there which is hidden, and there may be much more to unearth. The question is only if it was hidden from the start. K. suggests that it wasn't hidden until we consciously decided to hide it and then got used to the process of hiding (repression).
We have unconscious it is natural
Yes, I think this is a fantastic point
I appreciate the fact that this channel is not monetized, this caused it to become my favorite channel ❤
Tbh monetizing this channel would be an act of smearing the name of the deceased K. Claiming to have seen truth and then setting up a shop is exactly what K. used to criticize religion for.
I adore krishnamurti, just his personality and the way he expresses himself.. how funny he comes across and everything. Legend.
The unconscious is the rest of the vast field, the limitless space outside the wall I have built around myself... The wall being, my experiences, my opinions, my beliefs, my prejudices, my status, my knowledge, my limited thinking, my attachments, my dependencies etc.
Excelente. No hay amor.
Building self-esteem gives way for fall. To avoid the conflict altogether is to be nothing. The unquestioned fear typical people have is, to be nothing.
Nicki LovesDogs I can't say I've achieved anything. However, I don't compare myself to anyone in any serious manner. As said, step outside of that spectrum and watch it move.
Nicki LovesDogs ~ Despair? The world is not to be controlled. Let go.
You care for the world, that is human. You see pain in the world and it causes you pain.
Why do you hold onto this pain? Are you seeking revenge or Justice on the world? If you seek to change the world, you are inevitably going to feel powerless, which is a constant struggle with control. Control is brought about by fear.
Nicki LovesDogs You are equating love with control. I see pessimism in your words.
Do you see humans as either good or bad?
"How can you have love in all this?.... We don't have it!!" The truth of this statement made my chest quake.
The mind can never get hurt, but the ego can act being hurt because the ego is the believer of every thought, of every image, of every memory, of every sensation.
The ego is programmed to develop every drama, of every storyline.
what k says is a naked Truth,and we still do not have the energy or willingness to acknowledge it.I ,am ashamed of myself. DEFINITELY my whole inside is TRANSFORMING as i am listening totally with my inner ears.THANKS K FOR ALL THE EFFORT.
if one remains with the fact.....there is transformation.....golden words
This is a masterpiece.
Very very important all 7 conversation!!!
Thanks a lot 🙏
Krishnamurti is a gem❤
This is wonderfull ! Thank you so much for having us participate in this investigation which inevitably leads towards realization of something that was all along there , but we never bothered to look at ! :) :) :)
David bohm is great at putting in words in krishnmurti
I love how refreshing krishnamurti is. He tried to make big points in few words. Like, isn’t it blatantly obvious that we choose to keep certain things in consciousness hidden? (what K was pointing out around 16:40)
Omg, what a descover ! I must descover more now ! Thank you for sharing !!! 🌼🌼🌼🌼🌼🌼🌼🌼
*35:55* Here Dr.shainberg discovered that his image get hurt when JK said that you have no relationship with your child. And saw that. That's amazing realisation.
Ego is so commonly used that oftentimes misinterpreted. Clinical psychology also used this word as strata of consciousness (ID, EGO.Super-ego, conscious Vs Unconscious). It's fragmentary, one part to explain the Truth. Hence "the killing of ego" creates more confusion than to be aware of this "I-ness" or "I-lets". Ego denotes lateral, dualistic existence, the "True self" staring down the "ego"(a few viewers below's dialogue). But "I-ness" is vertical. It's so instantaneous, torrential, catapulting from an infernal center, as constant and ancient as Old Faithful. Thoughts are droplets that can be traced back to this self. When there is no subject,"I", verb, "think", object (thoughts), true action can occur in relational movement, Observer is the observed. Thanks K and friends.
Thank you for sharing this conversation 😉
I think if conversation was between K and Bhom , it would take half the time. 😂
❤🤝❤🙏
I think these are my favorite videos of him.
true
I agree
Humanity is in a mess and we all know who has cultivated it.
A difficult conversation for the psychoanalist.
estudiando la conciencia humana. el porque del miedo ,temor , que nos lleva a la violencia tanto fisica como psicologica. es un clavado a la mente para desplantar el mapa psicologico , y poder ver donde esta la falla y corregir. tiempos basicos y profundos.
JK WILL EXPLAIN N DOESN'T GIVE A GRIP ON IT THE REASON BEHIND THAT WAS HE NEVER USES EXAMPLES TO EXPLAIN THE PROCESS THAT WAS 🔥🔥🔥
I don’t get the bad comments about Dr. Shainberg. To me, he seems completely honest, and approaches the topic at hand with honesty and with his personality and knowledge, offering a great point of view and forcing the author to clarify things.
54:21 see it as fact and remain with the fact. Their is transformation
Sooo km is telling be in present. Just power of now.
“ as it is now, there is no love in the world“
If Jiddu Krishnamurti were alive today, would he say the same thing?
Do we have more images or fewer images? Do we have more awareness? Do we have actual relationships?
Has the connectedness that the Internet has allowed over the past four+ decades allowed more connection? Is there more relationship now?
Or do we have more images, less relationship, and more separation?
dr. sahinberg could have been just fine, if he didn't pretend to "know" and just listened. tedious to go through the talk with him.
...how simple is that...remaining with fact🙏
Question : What are relationships, in the sense Krishnamurti is talking ?
If you don't mind me answering this, one way to look at it is to find out what relationships are not, instead of seeking what they are. Because while you or me, meaning the image, is trying to understand, an idea is being made about what relationships are, and what "you" perceive would not be what relationships truly are. Therefore, to see the fact of it is to observe it, not to define it with words or ideas.
To put it very simply, relationship is the way we are all connected when there is no divison, no me or you, we and they. When there is no division, all is one.
Sir, If you have a clash with your friend or wife yesterday, Is it possible today to look at them completely fresh with out any trace of past???
Comunicare con totale sincerità senza aver paura di essere quello che sei. Senza nascondersi.Senza nascondere quella fiamma che è venuta a questo mondo,quella prima che ti hanno detto che ti devi vergognare di te stesso. E poi guardare al altro con consapevolezza che anche a lui o lei è stato detto che si deve vergognare di se stesso come essere umano.Non interagire con sua ferita invece interagire con suo essere.Non ci vuole tanto.
This has everything to do with expectations
Either we have a relationship with our friend, or we have an image with our friend. If our friend does some thing outside of our image of him, then we have a problem
If we have a relationship with a friend, and he surprises us, there is no problem
It’s the same with God. The Catholic Church says that we cannot have a relationship with God. We can only have a relationship with the image of God. We need to go through a priest in order to confess our sins, etc. We I’m not supposed to pray directly to God, we are supposed to pray to the Saints which represent a certain image of God…
I suppose you could say that relationship is direct. Image is indirect, and is also an illusion
We must un act un acting, or un act acting - Bruce lee
L'eternità del pensiero cosciente Sbalorditivo
51:40
Fantastic stuff.
If I’m not anywhere I must be everywhere?
Brilliant 🙏🏽😇
it just blows me away - better the "me" away
just brilliant beyond any words
🙏🏽✨😇✨🙏🏽
46:55 Può cessare questa creazione di immagini?
It's just beautiful ❤️
If I’m a listener it all just goes past and I don’t have anything to do with it I observe it and then leave it alone.
this video is the Life in play
🙏💥🙃😉
È senza essenza ĺ essenza
It is
I can never be there only here time doesn’t exist
Grazie
☺️
🙏
wow
Completely off image not partial image is the Order...great
If one could be aware of their unconscious it would be something that one would be conscious of
I think it’s a very interesting point, is there a division between unconscious and conscious or if they’re not?
My sense is that the more conscious we become of our thoughts, the more of our unconscious comes to light
So can we be aware of our unconscious? Why not? I think it’s a matter of peeling back the layers
A que se refiere con imagen?
Thank you
Thanks so much.
Only ❤️
Awesome
When others are talking see his patience of listening ❤
51:41
🙏🏻
How do we act without creating an image to a child’s mind?
Good question. I had a question somewhat similar to Art. Children already have that quality of seeing things as they are.
The question of how to act, how I act, what should we do and all other similar questions, implies that there is an image in you itself. While as discussed, you, the image, is not in a relationship with anything or anyone else, therefore there is nothing you can do! What one is to do when knowing all this, is to not have an image. This way, if there is no image, there won't be a "you" imposing images on the children interacting with "you".
@@masoudfarsi5884 It's true what you're saying, but Krishnamurti also talks about right action, there is not only action that serves the images, but also right action. It is not clear how child upbringing looks like when you refuse to create an image. If the child is grabbing a knife and potentially hurting himself, the moment you tell him not to and scare him off, you create an image. I think this is a relevant question Vladimir is asking, it would have to be discussed how a mother is to even raise a child that way.
🙏💚🌻
The "I" king: Thinking (or) thine•king... "not my will, but thine, be done." - KJV....."my" \ˈmī \(|i|) indicates (i)dentification bringing the identified into a mind conditioned time fragmentation/divison/duality, hence "thine" (yours). 🌻
its gone
Unfortunately there's a third wheel here, I think the conversation would've reached further without him, no offense to him but the two others kept up twice as fast or so
Dry Code I like the dynamic between the three of them. I like watching him learn and forget, and learn again. It helps me watch my own learning better.
Come on Shainberg is fine.
yes the psychoanalyst is rather slow :-) that's why he withdrew from his ̶b̶u̶l̶l̶s̶h̶i̶t̶ practice after this talk
He was caught up in analytical thinking his whole life, I don't blame him at all.
@@ivangohome that must be a bitter pill to swallow tho that his whole practice is for nothing. credits must go to him for eating that pill
Hola ¡ l'inconscient i el conscient son una sola cosa i tot ve de la conciencia ´la conciencia que també és aquesta Vida funciona a base de contrastes : dia nit home dona bé mal que es relacionen .
Aquesta Vida es com un joc on hi han incidencies que considerem com a positives o no , hi ha que dir que aquesta Vida segueix com una línia cap a l'amor i unió. La ignorancia de ser conciencia de ser com aquesta Vida , som aquesta vida així com som . Ens porta a la separació o egoisme , llavors al expresar el nostre ser de bondat amor i pau moltes vegades ens trobem exclosos criticats i tenim que construirnos com un personatge en l'actuació. Tot això porta a confusió.
Però sempre ens podem adonar integralment - cord i ment - del nostre veritable Ser, que som, tal com som , llavors sobre com una Vida i terra nova
While it is true that our ideas of ourselves ultimately come from a materialist society, there are some injuries that children suffer through neglect - physical and emotional - long before the child is capable of forming an idea of themselves. This conversation would have benefited from the presence of a woman.