I've been wanting to admit to being an EX-SC2 player (I wasnt good...) who only watches SC2 on Winter's channel forever. None of my gaming friends still play SC2 lol. It's just some odd low-level addiction to me at this point. Edit: Spelling.
@@joethestrat I wasn't particularly good either like d2 peak but I still appreciate the fact I can understand the nuances of the game and be entertained by good content
Man, I really thought it was dead this time lol Happy to see it though, aside from Bronze League Heroes, this is my favorite Winter content to watch. I may not play much SC2, but I have always been fond of edutainment.
I find the biggest hurdle to enjoying SC2/getting better at it is simply managing stress and adrenaline. I've had friends who liked playing, but they get upset so easily that it drives them crazy and drives them away from the game ultimately. They can't just stay calm and understand that there's a REASON that they lost, and if they want to figure it out they need to watch the replay and keep playing. If you can just stay calm and remember it's a game, and accept that your progress is going to be slow, and you've never gonna be a Maru or Hero or whatever, then you can have fun!
Yes and no. I think you can have fun with SC2 at the beggining and the end, the middle is all suffering haha when you reach your roof you start to having fun again with the skill you aquired.
Hmm, wonder how I missed this one, I saw the zerg one but this one didn't pop up in recommended until after I watched the zerg one. I wish winter would look at the replay for 41:25 to see if the guy looked hard for the probe.
Hey winter, 1st, congrats on the nuptials…. 2nd, my question. Plat 3 toss, how should I deal with early all-in marine pressure. In an earlier vid you mentioned toss should usually expand because not as many early options as Terran. But when I do, multiple times now, at 3-4 mins 15-20 marines show up and my 3-4 stalkers just evaporate cuz they can just target the expansion battery and that’s that. Hard to scout being always they’re walled. Expand later pvt?
No base? More battery, more units. Probably get a second gate, start powering out units. I’d say adepts if you *know* its marines, otherwise stalkers are fine. Remember though, units are more important than batteries. Healing shields is nice, but dps is what kills the enemy. You can probably do this on a quick expand build, you’ll just need to stop building probes after your main is saturated. Once its held, chrono both mexus, get to 2 mineral lines of income, put down a twilight and a robo in the mean time. Get charge, 8-10 total gates and a warp prism. Then you go over there and fucking kill him. Remember to keep scouting, he might just try that dumb marine attack again
If the marines are stimless you can kite them with the stalkers (stalkers are faster and have more range). Depending if your opponent is very all in or not you can pull probes. (To figure that out you probably have to scout or have some game sense which I admit is hard in plat 3)
Hey Winter, just an idea for your other gaming channel. Have you considered giving Supreme Commander, Forged Alliance Forever (FAF) a go? It's a really epic RTS game that has a ton of depth. It has been community run for a long time now.
The best way i ever heard to never ever fuck up the wall is to build the wall doorway first with the cyber. Its easy to finish a wall then it is to make a door with the 3rd building. Remeber. Door with cyber
lol Game 6 the failed proxy cheese turned into a limp-dicked 1 base all-in... I don't know how he expected to out-muscle him 1 base versus 2, after so much scouting and so much macro, Winter had double his economy and 25% larger army by that point. He either had hella confidence in his micro, or that was the biggest miss-read of all time
It works sometimes when the opponent doubles down on probes on two base. Those probes will need like 1-2 minutes to produce profit so their army will be less than of the one on 1 base for a while. Even more so if they tech early. But Winter saw it coming and didn't overdid the macro and development.
This looks like a good video worth watching. But damnit WinterStarCraft you can't give out a spoiler before announcing the winner of gsl. Would rather have watched that without knowing the results.
"Gateway is all the rage now." Uh. I've been playing Gateway since SC2 released. Why would you NOT want to warp in units to where you need/want them, instead of being locked to the building? Still fond memories when Gateway rush got you some nice Cheese wins with proxy pylons.
Gateway units are like zerg units. Bad in small to medium numbers. The CIA curb stomps a lot of stuff relative to the gateway man. Including gatewayman
@@TheMuffinman191 But zerg are limited in unit production by larvae. Solution: build more hatcheries. Gateway production limited? Solution: build more gateways.
@@Dakarn Zerg units are cheaper than protoss units so more gateways still get you 12 gateway units at a time and ill make 100 zerglings every 30 seconds
@@TheMuffinman191 1 larva every 30 seconds. 2 zerglings per larva. You tellin' me you're gonna have 50 hatcheries before Protoss pushes with Chargelots, Stalkers, Immortals and Archons? Using the queens to inject larvae every 2 minutes instead of transfusing your army seems like a waste of queens.
@@Dakarn your math is wrong its a larva every 11 seconds and injects for 3 every 29. So 17 hatcheries in 33 seconds for 100 zerglings or 10 hatcheries with injects for 100 zerglings every 30 seconds. Or 5 with injects for 100 a minute.
Protoss bullshit is not multiplicative, its exponential. So for instance when you have a ZvP the equation is z^p, where z= Zerg Bullshit, and p= Protoss Bullshit. So in a PvP you understandably have p^p and since p > z you end up having a much more weird bullshit experience even if it was multiplicative but its also is exponential unlike many other XvX. For instance, TvT and ZvZ are multiplicative with t*t and z*z. Source: My math professor who got me into starcraft
The notions of cheese and it's inferiority are flawed. Winning strategy games is essentially about identifying the best strategy for winning, not excluding shenanigans and experimentation. In chess you might get ahead in material, and then it's often best to trade out remaining pieces, but sometimes, your opponents king is open to attack, and then maybe going for checkmate is possible, meaning trading pieces would be bad. There is technically a right and a wrong way, or the most efficient way to win, because there is perfect information. But In a game of imperfect information, like Starcraft, the notion of a predictable, "efficient" and meta-defined macro style by definition being better than creative, aggressive and unpredictable ones is simply wrong. For winning, you should really just focus on playing to you own strengths and to your opponents weaknesses. Dark and SOS aren't efficient macro players compared to their piers, yet arguably goats. I'm in Dia 3 as random, with fairly low apm, but a lot of experience, playing against a lot of faster players with less experience that often do predictable standard stuff. Terrans stutterstepping bio at 275 apm through the middel and the likes. I don't gain an advantage by playing long-winded and defensive, in fact I would probably often loose my advantage if I had one doing that. No I throw a wrench into their schemes, playing to my own advantage by taking the initiative, creating chaos and using my experience at navigation situations, they haven't seen before, like low eco or weird infrastructure scenarios. It doesn't mean I can't macro or control late game, or that I have to yolo at any point for that matter. But it's really not more honorable to die slowly in a 36 minute ZvT vs planetary, tank, ghost, mule, thor, walls and flying buildings, than winning a 6 minute ZvT with nydus hydra.
He returns when the world needs him the most!
Been watching for 3 years even though I don't play sc2 much anymore, keep up the god-tier content winter
I've been wanting to admit to being an EX-SC2 player (I wasnt good...) who only watches SC2 on Winter's channel forever.
None of my gaming friends still play SC2 lol. It's just some odd low-level addiction to me at this point.
Edit: Spelling.
@@joethestrat I wasn't particularly good either like d2 peak but I still appreciate the fact I can understand the nuances of the game and be entertained by good content
Thanks!
Enjoy married life. Love your videos. Thank you for multi year of entertainment. 🙏 All the best.
Man, I really thought it was dead this time lol Happy to see it though, aside from Bronze League Heroes, this is my favorite Winter content to watch. I may not play much SC2, but I have always been fond of edutainment.
Its been a long while since we got a Low APM but it’s still just as exciting to watch again!
Its Back!
There is no such thing as doing the wall correctly, you just start warping and praying. It's in the Khala's hands.
So true.
I find the biggest hurdle to enjoying SC2/getting better at it is simply managing stress and adrenaline. I've had friends who liked playing, but they get upset so easily that it drives them crazy and drives them away from the game ultimately. They can't just stay calm and understand that there's a REASON that they lost, and if they want to figure it out they need to watch the replay and keep playing.
If you can just stay calm and remember it's a game, and accept that your progress is going to be slow, and you've never gonna be a Maru or Hero or whatever, then you can have fun!
Yes and no. I think you can have fun with SC2 at the beggining and the end, the middle is all suffering haha when you reach your roof you start to having fun again with the skill you aquired.
Ooooh *pretty* thumbnail. Congrats on the wedding!
Hmm, wonder how I missed this one, I saw the zerg one but this one didn't pop up in recommended until after I watched the zerg one.
I wish winter would look at the replay for 41:25 to see if the guy looked hard for the probe.
Thank you Winter!
Congratulations on the wedding.
Just wondering how Jimmy fits into your life now?
I heard he screwed up the floral arrangements at the wedding.
Hey winter, 1st, congrats on the nuptials…. 2nd, my question. Plat 3 toss, how should I deal with early all-in marine pressure. In an earlier vid you mentioned toss should usually expand because not as many early options as Terran. But when I do, multiple times now, at 3-4 mins 15-20 marines show up and my 3-4 stalkers just evaporate cuz they can just target the expansion battery and that’s that. Hard to scout being always they’re walled. Expand later pvt?
Photon cannons?
Idk. I guessed.
No base? More battery, more units.
Probably get a second gate, start powering out units. I’d say adepts if you *know* its marines, otherwise stalkers are fine.
Remember though, units are more important than batteries. Healing shields is nice, but dps is what kills the enemy.
You can probably do this on a quick expand build, you’ll just need to stop building probes after your main is saturated.
Once its held, chrono both mexus, get to 2 mineral lines of income, put down a twilight and a robo in the mean time. Get charge, 8-10 total gates and a warp prism. Then you go over there and fucking kill him. Remember to keep scouting, he might just try that dumb marine attack again
If the marines are stimless you can kite them with the stalkers (stalkers are faster and have more range). Depending if your opponent is very all in or not you can pull probes. (To figure that out you probably have to scout or have some game sense which I admit is hard in plat 3)
27:45 damn those 20 subs must have hurt
Is the Winter Gaming on twitch or TH-cam? I cant find it.
Hey Winter, just an idea for your other gaming channel. Have you considered giving Supreme Commander, Forged Alliance Forever (FAF) a go? It's a really epic RTS game that has a ton of depth. It has been community run for a long time now.
The best way i ever heard to never ever fuck up the wall is to build the wall doorway first with the cyber. Its easy to finish a wall then it is to make a door with the 3rd building. Remeber. Door with cyber
YES.
Why did the zzerg lose in G1? Even after doing so much damage with the roachpush
Did you ever finish all the achievements?
No joke mechanical keyboard plus high apm equals "we are not friends anymore."
lol Game 6 the failed proxy cheese turned into a limp-dicked 1 base all-in... I don't know how he expected to out-muscle him 1 base versus 2, after so much scouting and so much macro, Winter had double his economy and 25% larger army by that point. He either had hella confidence in his micro, or that was the biggest miss-read of all time
It works sometimes when the opponent doubles down on probes on two base. Those probes will need like 1-2 minutes to produce profit so their army will be less than of the one on 1 base for a while. Even more so if they tech early. But Winter saw it coming and didn't overdid the macro and development.
Thanks Evan
So pvp void ray proxy the goto
This looks like a good video worth watching. But damnit WinterStarCraft you can't give out a spoiler before announcing the winner of gsl. Would rather have watched that without knowing the results.
WinterStarcraft = Best Starcraft.
Whereee iiss Zeeeerg?? :OOO
"Gateway is all the rage now."
Uh. I've been playing Gateway since SC2 released. Why would you NOT want to warp in units to where you need/want them, instead of being locked to the building? Still fond memories when Gateway rush got you some nice Cheese wins with proxy pylons.
Gateway units are like zerg units. Bad in small to medium numbers.
The CIA curb stomps a lot of stuff relative to the gateway man. Including gatewayman
@@TheMuffinman191 But zerg are limited in unit production by larvae. Solution: build more hatcheries. Gateway production limited? Solution: build more gateways.
@@Dakarn Zerg units are cheaper than protoss units so more gateways still get you 12 gateway units at a time and ill make 100 zerglings every 30 seconds
@@TheMuffinman191 1 larva every 30 seconds. 2 zerglings per larva. You tellin' me you're gonna have 50 hatcheries before Protoss pushes with Chargelots, Stalkers, Immortals and Archons?
Using the queens to inject larvae every 2 minutes instead of transfusing your army seems like a waste of queens.
@@Dakarn your math is wrong its a larva every 11 seconds and injects for 3 every 29. So 17 hatcheries in 33 seconds for 100 zerglings or 10 hatcheries with injects for 100 zerglings every 30 seconds.
Or 5 with injects for 100 a minute.
Protoss bullshit is not multiplicative, its exponential. So for instance when you have a ZvP the equation is z^p, where z= Zerg Bullshit, and p= Protoss Bullshit. So in a PvP you understandably have p^p and since p > z you end up having a much more weird bullshit experience even if it was multiplicative but its also is exponential unlike many other XvX. For instance, TvT and ZvZ are multiplicative with t*t and z*z.
Source: My math professor who got me into starcraft
When you said "So for instance when you have a TvP....", did you mean TvP?
@@joethestrat sure didn't thanks
The notions of cheese and it's inferiority are flawed. Winning strategy games is essentially about identifying the best strategy for winning, not excluding shenanigans and experimentation. In chess you might get ahead in material, and then it's often best to trade out remaining pieces, but sometimes, your opponents king is open to attack, and then maybe going for checkmate is possible, meaning trading pieces would be bad. There is technically a right and a wrong way, or the most efficient way to win, because there is perfect information.
But In a game of imperfect information, like Starcraft, the notion of a predictable, "efficient" and meta-defined macro style by definition being better than creative, aggressive and unpredictable ones is simply wrong. For winning, you should really just focus on playing to you own strengths and to your opponents weaknesses. Dark and SOS aren't efficient macro players compared to their piers, yet arguably goats.
I'm in Dia 3 as random, with fairly low apm, but a lot of experience, playing against a lot of faster players with less experience that often do predictable standard stuff. Terrans stutterstepping bio at 275 apm through the middel and the likes. I don't gain an advantage by playing long-winded and defensive, in fact I would probably often loose my advantage if I had one doing that. No I throw a wrench into their schemes, playing to my own advantage by taking the initiative, creating chaos and using my experience at navigation situations, they haven't seen before, like low eco or weird infrastructure scenarios. It doesn't mean I can't macro or control late game, or that I have to yolo at any point for that matter. But it's really not more honorable to die slowly in a 36 minute ZvT vs planetary, tank, ghost, mule, thor, walls and flying buildings, than winning a 6 minute ZvT with nydus hydra.
I mean you're certainly not wrong.
Fuck yeahbjust my race and rank lets see how much i suck at this
Godspeed brother.
It's rough out there.
Please tell your local authorities about infrastructure safety.
thanks grandmaster!
god bless.
Came for the Winter, stayed for the pron phishing scams in the comments.