Game of Thrones/ASOIAF Theories | Littlefinger: Secret and Hidden Influence
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Part 3 in our mysteries, myths and motives theory series on Petyr Baelish, better known as Littlefinger.
Theories and analysis of A Song of Ice and Fire using text evidence and quotes from George RR Martin.
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Littlefinger's magical abilities would be major disappointment. It would cheapen his character. Doing all the things he did just by power of his intellect is why I like him in the first place.
I see it as a combination of his intellect and his ability to enter people's minds to see what they want most so he can use it to manipulate them...he is the ultimate arbiter of temptation...
I agree w/you there, Wulfgar, but it could make more sense as to how he hasn't gotten caught yet. It is possible and it seems to be something most of us don't even consider, as we feel we were shown all of the wargs and skin changers of the story already. But we never get a Petyr POV chapter, and this could be a reason why out of many.
So far, I've thought of Petyr as a small-minded player in a sense, not understanding the really big game of the WW threat, but if it turns out he has been serving the Great Other all this time, then it could make sense so it wouldn't make his plot meaningless to the whole overall story by the end like I was thinking it would be.
Bureucracy is one hell of a confusing shit, almost nobody can truly navigate in it.
I like grrm's realism about it. And only Ned was close to looking seriously into the web of debts and loans.
He didn't get far.
Wulfgar, You are totally on the money about the disappointment if there was a 'magical' aspect to Littlefinger. His own intelligence and charisma are his biggest assets, and greatest weapons. By far one of my Favorite Characters.
Varymir Six-skins who was considered the greatest warg in the world (mainly because people don't know about Bran) couldn't warg another human, let alone without them noticing. Zero chance of Petyr secretly being by far the most powerful warg without anyone knowing.
Not sure 100% about the mind control thing, but I do think its plausible that one of the modes LF uses to influence people is by infiltrating their dreams. Bran could NOT enter other humans or other's dreams until he was in the tomb for a long period, which resulted in his third eye being opened, same way the Faceless Men made Arya blind, which resulted in her opening her third eye (she was blind up until she called the kindly man out for being the one who was hitting her with the stick, which she doesn't tell him, but means that he knew she had used the eyes of another living thing to see him doing that to her). opening your third eye and being a warg are not synonymous, otherwise every character we know who is a warg would need to undergo some sort of "third eye opening" in order to awaken their power, which is not the case.
My main problem with LF being able to dive into people's dreams is that this seems to be the only instance he has used it. The opening of the third eye seems to have alot to do with said person losing bodily functionality (Bran = Coma/Paraplegic, Arya = Blind) whereas Petyr did have a serious injury but, correct me if im wrong, Petyr was never in a coma or lose any real functionality just suffered a serious torso wound. I find it likely that Petyr has made sure to have minions in Winterfell considering is obsession with then Cat and now Sansa. If Petyr is indeed the culprit, he need only reach out to one of his cronies. One question I don't think you answered in your video is WHY would Petyr want Bran killed? The only people really with motive are Jamie and Cersei and it seems in the book that, since we get their POVs, they didn't do it. I would like to reread the books keeping in mind that Cersei actually makes the most sense to be the person who wants Bran dead and see if anything pulls together.
Let's assume that LF cannot enter people's dreams, we know the Great Other can, so if LF is in league with the Great Other why can't he telephone the GO who would then enter Joeffrey's mind and give him the green light?
that is where we were originally going with it until we realized that once bran opened his third eye he could enter people's dreams, and so can Jojen...either is a possibility but LF actually being capable of this demonic power makes more sense (to me anyways), since his entire character is essentially based on demonic lore
Do we know that the GO opened his 3rd eye? It's possible that he just cut a deal with Baelish. Is the 3rd eye bit reserved for those with magic blood like the Starks?
GRRM is a Genius. His imagination and creativity are breathtaking.
Yes he is
His method is pretty simple but the fact he worked it so well is commendable.
Most of his stories are historical with a dash of fantasy. The insane part is how he studies this history then adds his fantasy element. No wonder it takes so long for him to write
The name Littlefinger is also indicative of his power. He can wrap anyone around his little finger. Well done!
thank you so much...we tried coming up with with a pun for his name and can't believe we didn't think of that...that's so good...would you mind if we used that?
theft!
I told him that you said that the other night ! Haha
hahaha I thought I was so original, turns out many a men have had this thought. great minds xD
Clearly not. Ser GH and I haven't! Thanks to you both! Ha
Speaking of GRRM choosing names, the word 'catelyn' in Sanskrit translates to 'a sharp and prolonged inhalation.' 😁
I wish we looked that up before we did the final Cat video
Might be hard to confirm since I made it up
@@craig8612 😂😂 madlad
@@craig8612 pro gamer move.
Your analysis of Baelish's name made me think of a few associations although these were unlikely to be on George's mind. The first part I thought is Petyr's first name that reminds me of a Satyr, a man-goat hybrid from Greek mythology that is a trickster in many ways.
The other is his given name Littlefinger. Now this obviously refers to the pinky finger, which is used today for making "pinky swears". Now it is some kind of hint at Petyr's nature when he is treacherous but his name is associated with oaths. The additional information here however is that the implication of a pinky swear used to be that if you betrayed that oath your pinky would be cut off. This might be implying that when Littlefinger betrays you, cut him off i. e. make him dead.
The third and the absolute least likely option is an association that came to me, when you guys linked Littlefinger with demons and the Devil. Making a deal with him is like making one with the Devil. In Finnish we have an expression that says "if you make a deal with the Devil and give him your pinky i.e. littlefinger, he'll take your whole hand/arm." Now no way would George know of this expression but the idea is the same: making a deal with Lord Baelish is a deal with the Devil and the Devil is a deceiver so be careful
Excellent video, I get excited every time a new one comes out!
I think Loki, another antagonistic trickster figure, is also associated with the Littlefinger (pinky).
Yeah more Littlefinger :D
what a little devil he is
Nope, he's a good guy :) You'll see by the end.
Excellent stuff, more food for tought as always.
So, by that rationale, would it be safe to infer that Littlefinger is a powerful worg? I mean, he'd obviously be powerful if he could do the things described in this video. What i mean is: do you suppose he uses animals to spy for him? Could this be how he learns his secrets, just as many and more than Varys sometimes?
Could this be the real reason he changed his sigil to that of a mockingbird? Using his birds to spy?
Is it weird that I pause the video 4x or so, go make a coffee, all so I've got more OOGH to look forward to? this type of content has to be paused, pondered over, then rewatched.
The first dislike that appears on this channel, I challenge the clicker to single combat.
SO, LET'S DO THIS.
thanks for once again being the man Sir Liam, Knight of the Order Guard, of House Henderson
that's entirely how it is good sir, you've got taste
Not the first to dislike the video, but I'll accept your challenge anyway.
Here are my points I am argumenting for:
1. Joffrey is an insane sycophant with little concideration for the concequence of his actions.
2. Joffrey being able to hire an effective assassin.
3. Joffreys motivation to screw with both Starks and Tyrion
4. These factors alone being enough to explain all of his actions without the need for magical death realm mystic mind control, which requires several leaps of faith and stretches of logic, that isn't showcased, or used anywhere else.
The text supports both theories Caldera.
If it didn't, this channel would not exist.
Yes joffreys motivations are clearly obvious on the surface, that doesn't mean it went down exactly how you think, thank god we all have differing opinions, I think this is in line perfectly well with Georges work, not just ASOIAF. The physical/metaphysical nature of ASOIAF is definitely worth getting into.
And of course you wouldn't be the first to dislike it (not sure why you mentioned you're not the first dislike? maybe to influence others into thinking the channel isn't worthy?)
there is a horde of people who dislike every single video purely because this channel theorizes that N+A=J
The text backs everything up that I've checked, I'm a fan of their theories because they are well thought out and grounded in the text. That's all you can ask.
I agree that there's reason enough in the first place for Joff to do it, that doesn't mean there wasn't another hidden hand, if anything it is written to make it seem it was just him, and the order are looking into other possibilities of the who/when/what went down.
I don't think anything at all that the order has produced could be considered ''leaps of faith and stretches of logic' and I think the metaphysical is pertinent, we're talking about the meta-physical, the third eye, all of which is supported directly in the text.
Have a nice day
Another Littlefinger connection, if he was wounded as gravely as rumor says in the duel with Brandon Stark, the tending maester would have been Luwin right? So the letter from Lysa in the lens box becomes even more suspect, right?
yes
Andrew Burns it was in riverrun. Different maester
Luwin was maester at Riverrun. He came with Cat to Winterfell (Cat said that Luwin delivered all of her 5 children and Robb was born at Riverrun)
Sooo, everything IS truly Catelyn's fault. If he wasn't infatuated with her, he would have never faught Brandon, never been close to death, etc...its all seven degrees of separation to Cat's shittiness, lol.
Not to mention that Brandon was going to kill him, and she stopped him
Lady Marmalade ◀ Love it!
Guichie giuchie ya ya dada (hey hey hey)
Guichie giuchie ya ya here
Mocha chocolate ya ya
(oh yea)....
Damn! I can't get that song outta my head naw! ✌
.....& oh yeah I agree with your post, Cat sucks (sucked)😯
The Order of the Green Hand
Wait, Brandon was gonna kill who? LF? DAMNIT I gotta read them books!
Lady Marmalade well the Tully's are the villainous family.
@@kain1799 Edmure is a far better man than about 99% of characters in the series
What if the Catspaw was Reek? The original reek? What I thought is so interesting on the reread how much emphasis there is on the assassin's stench. Maybe the Boltons saw a possibility there too if a war broke out.
This brings a lot of new information to the fandom. There are theories that Littlefinger is Robin Arryn's biological father, and "Peter" could also mean "Father" (in particular, check out the wikipedia page for "Sky Father" and how it was translated from Zeus Pater, Jupiter, etc). And there are theories that Robin has telepathic abilities of his own and that someone is whispering to him (e.g., he still hears singing even after Marillion is killed). If all those theories are true and we tie them together: Peter Baelish being a demonic stone titan father of a telepathic Robin Arryn and whispering to him...and the parallels you pointed out to Bloodraven, it looks like LIttlefinger could be (or become) very powerful! But what would he do with all that power?
Sup notification squad?
haha yay it worked. it wasn't before
The Order of the Green Hand where is part 4?
A number of really great points in this video! I think that you are onto something here!...So many possibilities!!!
As usual - points and questions.
#1. Lysa's *numerous* miscarriages.
Petyr has slept with Lysa before.
Petyr is rumoured to have fathered Robert.
(sweet*robin* - Petyr has a thing for birds)
Petyr slept with Lysa after they were wed.
Do you think Petyr is performing shadow magic with the babies?
If so, is Lysa's behaviour at the Drearfort the result of *ahem* some kind of spiritual ritual?
If so, who is the shadow demon intended for this time?
* the Demon of the Trident.
Robert Baratheon is called as thus.
Ned appears to hold some remorse and resentment towards Robert having killed Rhaegar (the fact that he didn't wait).
Robert believes the lie that Rhaegar repeatedly raped Lyanna. Where did this lie come from?
Do you think Petry warged either Robert or Rhaegar? (the whole trident battle is very similar to Petyr's battle with Brandon Stark - the one that you say is significant in aiding him with learning magic!)
* the things I do for love.
It's a bit out of character for Jamie to drop Bran out of the window, don't you think?
For your kill Bran plot to work, wouldn't he need to have done?
Also, the three eyed crow really resents Bran remembering how he came to be dropped out of the window...
Why do you think that is?
(Chaos is a ladder. Bran loves to climb.)
Euron was also visited by the crow... And Quathe sends dreams to Dany, though those don't seem to promise the same sorts of things...
The thing I'm wrestling with, is what is the Great Other's motive? Why is Littlefinger willing to kill Bran but the three eye crow is trying to lure Bran north?
Not all of the crows motives have to be shared the atteptive murder serves both it helps distract mankind from the true war and allows bran to be sent north of the wall because anyone who would prevent bran from leaving is gone
This. Is. Genius. This video really helped me connect the missing pieces I could not see! I wish George would come out with the Winds of Winter already to confirm Littlefinger is related to the Three-eyed Crow. It just makes sense he does. You guys made a great observation that Littlefinger's name is based off of the demon prince Bael. Originally I had assumed Baelish was based off of Bael the Bard who "stole" the daughter of Winterfell, just like Petyr did with Sansa. But I like the demon reference a whole lot better for the following reasons.
Did you guys know Bael is another variation of Baal, the Canaanite storm god? Storm gods are historically associated with chaos and foreigners/strangers, or "others". Euron is known to make sacrifices in the name of the Storm God of the Ironborn... I wonder if George is trying to hint there's a connection between Euron and Littlefinger too. It can't be a coincidence that Littlefinger chose a ship called 'The Merling King'. I wonder if George is trying to tell us merlings, storm gods and Deep Ones are in fact all connected to the Great Other.
But what if Littlefinger is not just an agent of the Great Other-- he IS the Great Other. Chaos is a ladder, right? Perhaps Petyr changing his family's sigil from the Titan to a mockingbird is another clue? The Children are suspected of being associated with the Great Other and they warred with Giants. Or if Petyr is not the Great Other than I'm willing to bet Littlefinger is being Littlefinger and has the stone balls to use the Three-eyed Crow for his own benefits... I know it's said Petyr chose the Mockingbird because he's "mocking" people, but mockingbirds are known to attack crows.
Thank you so much...I'm going to stay away from commenting much on your thoughts, other than to say, we agree with almost everything you said...we're going to do more LF videos relatively soon and Euron is on the way as well
Looking forward to it.
Didn't Joff hear Robert commenting that living as a cripple was no way to live in private? I remember it in the books. Joff basically did it because he wanted Robert's approval in some sick way. Like the time he killed that cat and cut it open to see its babies for which Robert almost knocked his teeth out.
haha so true (last part), but yes the story goes that he did it because he overheard his father saying that stronger men would give him the gift of mercy, but that doesn't really add up, plus HOW did he find the perfect hidden dagger to get it done??
I see your point. I think in the book somewhere it was said the dagger was probably one of many weapons given as a gift to robert and that a large part of the royal armory has to be taken with the king on travel in case he wants something for any reason. Does seem odd that Joff would give that dagger considering how he responds to Tywin giving him a VS sword to him latter that was reforged from Ice.
CrimswordKnight i Think we were fooled by Tyrions drunken logic when he decided that Joffrey did it. Even though Tyrion is clever he doesn’t always come to the right conclusions.
Also, can you guys do a short video on the significance and backstory of the Titan of Braavos?
I had a thought a few years ago that Littlefinger had Lothar Brune in the King's Party at Winterfell to ensure Lysa's letter reached Caitlyn. God knows what he was doing before he was first mentioned.
I like that theory that Luthor was there and the cats paw seen Jamie pushing Bran out the window but he just don't think Luthor would of agreed maybe he did that's why hes do protective of Sansa guilt that he gave the command to kill bran
great series!!! little finger as a fledgeling warg.. far too complicated ... what Martin was getting at in his statement was little finger influenced jeoff BEFORE they went to Winterfel. the assassination attempt went wrong because Jamie pushed bran out of the window. what that did was give the assassin an easier target... so he thought... he didn't figure that lady stone heart would neglect everything and never leave the room and he certainly didn't factor in dire wolves. but what im saying is if bran never got pushed the assassination attempt still takes place because it was pre planned.
thats a pretty cool idea. i like it.
The dream hacking abilities described here sounds a lot like a glass candle. I don’t doubt the Three-Eyed Crow’s influence, but a glass candle would be a great mechanism without giving Littlefinger powers through lineage.
Hard day at work and when i get home preston and the order have a new video, totally fix my day
there ya go!
I like the Lil'finger's deal with the devil aspect, but it doesn't seem that he would have had to work as hard at manipulation as he does if he could simply takeover the minds of his pawns.
I don't think he is a skinchanger, which is why he can't seize minds like Bran can...he can enter their dreams, and quite possibly their minds, and plant ideas there, but that seems like it would need to be done delicately or the person you are doing it to would go crazy, especially if you were doing it all the time...instead of doing that, he uses his ability to literally know what the person he is talking to needs to hear, wants to hear, wants period, and it allows him to walk them right to where he wanted them to be, while they are none the wiser and think it was their idea
Those are powers exclusive to the three-eyed crow as far as we know. I think the name derivation was spot on and maybe there is something to this theory, but I just haven't seen anything to suggest a connection between Littlefinger and anything metaphysical. That said, you're still my favorite ASOIAF theorists... the depth of your thought is unrivaled... though I worry you'll eventually blame Catelyn for the assassination of JFK.
The bitch was on the grassy knoll that day, it is known! :)
Almost certainly, but the CIA had the Freys kill her two days before she was to testify before the HSCA.
GRRM really makes some bad choices. Joffrey is a rabid dog. It is totally in character for him to have Ned, or Bran, or any other killed at the slightest justification. If it weren't for Tyrion, he'd have Sansa killed too.
You painting him as a manipulation god takes away from one of Littlefinger's key characteristics, strangely absent from your 10 rules: Identifying and profiting from opportunity. Chaos is a ladder, not in fact a carefully crafted plan by Littlefinger.
Magical capabilities in Littlefinger would be absolutely ludicrous and diminish his character. He is not magical, and he is no hidden Targaryen. He is just an opportunist who can make the best of any situation.
Him having Jon Arryn killed just when he had discovered hints on Joffrey's real parentage is no coincidence. Cerseï really was most probably the driving force behind Arryn's murder.
Littlefinger first did her dirty work, then turned around to frame her to Ned. This is simply self preservation, for he a) must have feared Ned could have discovered his involvement, and b) it was an opportunity to have her divorced from Catelyn, either by execution or Black Watch.
I still find it idiotic that Littlefinger should have influenced Joffrey to have Ned executed, but *maybe* it could be explained by him having Ned out of Catelyn's life altogether, perhaps making her turn to him for comfort.
Ned being appointed as Hand of the King was a coin toss. Tywin Lannister could also have been chosen, given his experience as Hand of the King during the Mad King's reign. When Catelyn was in King's Landing, he again took the opportunity to gain access to Ned.
Quite frankly, Littlefinger as a mundane opportunist with great intellect and skill is much, much more interesting than a magical Littlefinger using glass candles and perhaps being a lost Targaryen. Let's simply keep him being mundane.
Honestly my favorite thing from your chanel is the name the batshit sisters and how you convinced me that cat is so horible i wish that ahara was lady of winterfell insted of batshit one
yea yea batshit sisters, yea yea
The Order of the Green Hand i personaly came up with batshit one and batshit two in refrence ti cat in the hat
Oh CAT elyn in the hat. . . I see what you did there LOL
Mark Hayes...hilarious...i love it
that is great! one day when I was writing the script, it just flowed out, and then after I was like holy crap, they are descended from the Whents/Lothstons, whose sigil was the Bat, and I'm like wow I did that subconsciously!!
I was under the impression that the 3ER just tapped into powers people already had and enhanced them. Bran wargs and is a skin changer the 3ER did not give him these powers he already had them. Also, there seems to be strong evidence that a human sacrifice was needed to open Bran's 3rd eye: th-cam.com/video/EhtbVpc8E70/w-d-xo.html
Where do we see LF showing signs that he had powers previous to the 3ER's intervention? If there has been any intervention by the 3ER with LF I think it would be better to compare him with the 3ER's intervention with Euron than Bran. In these cases, it seems they are just influenced.
No, I think LF had the cat's paw in place to kill the remaining Stark boys, as he had too much money on him just to kill Bran who was already half dead. LF had plenty of time to receive and respond to ravens from Winterfell.
Are you going to make a video regarding LF changing his sigil?
I really hate the direction you went with this one... too much speculation without any textual evidence. It's crackpot and I think it damages your other theories.
Watch our first two Old Powers videos and then this one will start to make a lot more sense
I agree, this is a stretch. It's far more likely one of Joffrey' s underlings decided to earn some points and hired the guy for him. Plus he did the job because he expected more money after it was done.
If LF is an instrument of the great other and considering your other videos, Sansa, Arya, and bran are all being pulled away from home when they should be returning. Reminds me of the quote "the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives." Is it possible that Robb and Rickon were being approached by the great other as well and we just don't know because they are not POV characters?
Remind me, that if I ever become king, I have to kill the one with the vaacum cleaner vendor smile first.
If Littlefinger can read minds, than can he read Vary's mind and does he know what Vary's thinks and ultimately wants?
I think Littlefinger has been out to cause pain to and eradicate the Starks. He was rejected multiple times by Kat and nearly killed by a Stark, to be saved by a Stark. Then sees the women have the children that could have been his with the man who saved his life, who was his brother. He says fuck the Starks and works to eliminate all of them with the end goal of being king of the North, kneeling to whoever sits on the Iron Throne. He would have his revenge whilst pissing on their graves in the crypts below.
An idea to add to your theory, Littlefinger chose a mockingbird as his sigil. If you wikipedia "mockingbird" its a bird best known for the habit of some species mimicking the songs of other birds. Possibly mimicking the song of the three eyed crow? Seems like a clever little hint that fits littlefingers idea of amusement.
Hold on a minute, gotta go find my tinfoil hat.
So many things I had never noticed or thought of before in this video! Keep up the great work Order of the Green Hand! Looking forward to the next video on the Stone Demon or any other topic.
Thank you so much
hahaha Stone Demon! I was laughing last night, I'm like wtf is this? haha Stone Demon, wow.
Nice to see a continuation of the story!
thanks!
Hello, I enjoy your theories, thank you so much for the doses.
I want to ask you questions though about Varys. I know that the show deviated a lot by now, and in last season he supported Dany, but in the first season she was almost poisoned under his command. And in the books he is supporting young Egg. So is he gonna set Dany vs Egg or what ? Another question is what do you think he heard in the flames when he was cut "root and stem" ?
I think he wants Aegon to be king, and that is a good idea...he is by far the best candidate (so to speak) for the job...he is well educated, listens to council, is decisive when he needs to be, is just and loyal...I think marrying Dany and her Dragons to Aegon's cause was actually their plan the whole time...I can't figure out exactly what their original plan was because so many changes have been made to their plans that it is nearly impossible to tell, but it seems to me that Viserys was the one that they never wanted to survive the Dothraki Sea and they wanted Dany to hatch the Dragons...I believe they took root and stem
Second question: What do u think he heard from the flame ? I think you misunderstood my question because I put " " sorry
LittleFinger is one of the most skillfully crafted characters of the entire series. Awesome video; I always find something I didn't catch that you guys point out. I'm left thinking "Damn...why didn't I see THAT?!?" Thanks for making Monday a little more tolerable.
Edit: It's very obvious, but compare what Baelish is doing with Sansa and it fits in nicely with the story of Bael the Bard, kidnapping the Lady of Winterfell, etc...
Thank you so much...Bael the Bard parallel is going to be in part 4
I'll just keep my mouth closed and wait until then :) Sorry if I steal your thunder! :\
Don't worry about it...we wanted to put it in here originally because we thought people would make the connection as soon as we bring up Bael=Demon, especially if they watched our Rhaegar and Lyanna video
Isn't it more likely that Baelish is a reference to Bael the Bard, rather than a Demon? I mean... the whole stealing a Stark girl?
Yes! Yes! Yes! I knew it! He's working for Voldemort!
hahaha....he's the ultimate Death Eater
I still don't understand what motive do Joffrey had to kill Bran. I don't get it. No matter how I wrap my head around it.
So what your setting us up for is the great other will visit Jon while he lays dead at castle black??
I have still a couple issues of Little Finger being an instrument of the three eyed crow.
1. You brought the issues of how Joffrey would go about hiring the catspaw, but never actually came around to answering them. Are you implying that LF also influenced the catspaw to patiently wait a week to kill Bran? Also did he influence Catelyn into staying in Bran's room to catch the catspaw?
2. Let say LF is working with the TEC, and he gave the idea of killing Bran to Joffrey. If the catspaw actually succeeded in killing Bran, wouldn't that go against the wishes of the TEC? Also would the catspaw leave the dagger as clue to who the culprit is?
3. Wouldn't the death of Bran would have a negative effect to LF plan of having Ned in King's Landing? I surmise that if Bran was killed by the catspaw Ned would return to WF to put Bran in crips. Thereafter I do not see Ned returning to KL especially with so many Lannister there. I do believe there would be a war between the Starks and Lannisters, however what roll LF would play in it difficult to speculate on. LF wanted Ned in KL for the coup to consolidate more power in KL.
Do not think I don't like your content, you're my second favorite ASOIAF channel after Preston. But if a theory isn't convincing enough it's hard to get behind it
the catspaw was the same guy who delivered the box with Lysa's letter...he was already LF's man, sitting there, ready and willing...the point of the video is that LF likes to be the one who provides what people want...he plays to their desires...he gave Joffrey his first taste...he set the whole thing up so Joffrey would be the guilty party, even though it was his doing, just like he set the assassination of Joffrey up so it would appear he had nothing to do with it when his littlefingerprints were all over it....this is similar, but with the small twist that he literally whispered in joffrey's ear telling him how he could fulfill his two greatest desires...killing/hurting people, and making his father proud
I kept telling my friends the logistics of this was impossible. I liked this a lot!
Thanks Ana! we almost killed each other making it, but it made it. haha
I can't wait for the next one :)
I feel like there is a more practical, non-mythical explanation derived by this theory's excellent sleuthing. The Catspaw is simply one of Petyr's well placed daggers. They accompanied the King's party, just as Mance was also in the party. There he had Joff's ear sometime after hearing Robert's drunken spiel about how killing Bran would be a mercy. Thus, the whispers combined with Joff's desire to impress his Father results in the attempt.
timing is the main issue with it...we do think the guy who delivered the box with Lysa's hidden message was the catspaw, but there is no way to get ravens back and forth quick enough for LF to coordinate it...we are going to do part 4 of this series pretty soon I think...we had a few topics that we knew we had to cover first to lay some groundwork for where we are going with LF and I think in the next month or so we should be ready to continue
Petyr is my absolute favorite character in these books, and the show. Honestly I think he might be one of my favorite characters in any book/show.
When you brought up "the other" in the last video I thought you came up with some crazed up theory like littlefinger beeing the other himself or his son - something like that. This theory is restrained for your standards and bringing up Petyrs near-death-experience in his youth makes it even convincing to be possible inside the books.
when are you gonna make part 4? I think little fingers storyline is the most important part of the show next to bran.
in the next month Part 4 will be online
Has he met Stoneheart in the books? If not, you think he'd be mortified at what his Cat had become or be some undead kink stuff. Idk what level of obsessed he is with her, haven't read the books (shameful I know).
yes, he will definitely have to hold his gag reflex.
she was wayyy better off with Tyrion. by the end of the books, those 2 may just run Westeros. possibly. probably not...
I would agree that she was actually better off with Tyrion
I love you guys and all your work i jus wanna say that so i dont sound like an ass cuz thats not my intention i jus dont agree with this one and to be honest i think its only the second time out of all your videos lol but come on if little finger being able to enter peoples minds??? he would have caused waaaaay more chaos than he has if that were the case.
Im on the fence VERY close to falling away from this theory but maybe he already has been using those powers, could explain Catelyn's stupidity, knowing what she had to do in her mind them doing the complete opposite. Jofferey killing Ned, managing to avoid Varys little Birds all the time.
+DoubleO88 I'll have too see the next video but as of now I think it reeeea ching a lil bit
Kevin Scroggins yeah it is a bit of a reach
Wow! Great video! Definitely one of my favorites. You guys are fantastic! I LOVE LOVE LOVE the idea that Littlefingers opened his third eye after his brush with death. This video gave me so much to think about.
1. Mockingbird Symbolism. First thing I read when I looked this up was "mockingbirds have intelligence equal to that of ravens or crows." Just thought that was interesting. They can also be a symbol for innocence, but that interpretation would be ironic for Littlefinger.
2. If you're right about the Children being involved in the founding of Bravos, i now wonder if Littlefinger has ancestors that were Children of the forest, which might explain his potential psychic gifts AND his short stature. I think the same thing could be true for the crannogmen, who are also known for being short. Is it possible Littlefinger is working for/with the Children of the forest?
3.I'm not sure why exactly, but i'm now wondering if Littlefinger actually IS the Three-eyed Crow. Bloodraven was confused when Bran asked if he was the three-eyed crow, so we know it's not Bloodraven. Also GRRM once said that we would never see an actual god in this story, so the Great Other might not be the all powerful supernatural entity some have imagined. It could be a human. Also, with the way the Wall's magic works, the Great Other would almost have to be somewhere South of the Wall. The Great Other wouldn't be able to psychically reach someone in Westeros if he/she/it were North of the wall.
Question: Once Bran is North of the Wall, does he still receive visions from the three-eyed crow?
4. Sweetrobin is having weird dreams, hearing voices/singing in his sleep, and he's obsessed with flying dreams like Bran. Is it a coincidence that Littlefinger just happens to be at the Eyrie while this is happening?
Or maybe he just pulled a Quaithe...
Remember, Euron can enter dreams and was also very likely visited by the 3 eyed crow
Petyr definitely lives up to his name. lol.
he most certainly does
Him And Catelyn Would Of Been A Great Couple
Littlefinger = Deaths, Stoneheart = Deaths,
good point littlefinger found the right lady for himself
agreed
that's whys sad that they didn't end up together would you imagine
Grey Noo Isn't it strange those who owned Harrenhal have had near death experienced or died? Cats family are relatives of the former Lothtons isn't she? Warging potential can /could be passed on.
Remember when Littlefinger said to catelyn "never expected to see you so soon" or something like that in the first book, so that further strengthens your theory. Littlefinger knew about both the fall and assassination attempt.
PEtyr...PE is acronym for Physical Education. Might think gym class, but id argue in this case its sex. Cause Littlefinger owns numerous brothels, where he teaches the art of sexual phyisical education, example jeyne poole......
peTYR... Tyr is a God of War, known for law and justice, which is a funny inverted trope, cause littlefinger is all about the chaos....
So put it together and you have Sex God Stone Demon.... damn
Peter...long time no see...I love the idea of him being a Sex Demon...the only issue I have with PE=Physical Education is I have a hard time believing that George would equate the two
I hear ya, a bit of a stretch admittedly. Looking at some of the clues hidden in people's names though....anyways, following patterns the only other family to have the Tyr in their names are the Lannisters....I always assumed that was pointing at Jamie being the Tyr-esque figure cause he is one of the only ones without...tyrion, ion= pertaining a part of...he has won two trials by combat...tywin, tyg....etc
but this also just isn't coming out of left field. In Theodore Sturgeon's last and considered his best sci-fi book "Godbody". Without spoiling the book, a stranger by the name of Godbody comes to a small New England town. Where morals are high and tolerance towards opposing thinking is low. He reintroduces love of the physical form to the everyday town folk. While many are happy with Godbody, others not so much...anyways, who knows
Great grandfather from Bravos....facelessman?
House of black an white...checkerd floor...
I for one would not want to spend any time whatsoever in Joffrey's mind.
neither would I
Oh happy day...thanks greenhands, love your videos ALWAYS!!!
thank you Tracy!
Sorry guys! This is too tinfoil. There is no evidence in the text that Littlefinger has anything to do with 3 eyed crow or magical abilities.
Yet......
@@210SAi Yet what? If you have something to add based on evidence text, than share. Otherwise, you are not contributing much.
Littlefinger having magic powers would make him too op though....
we think he can penetrate dreams...whether he does it on his own, or with a glass candle or something, we don't know, but we think he can do it and that's how he got Joffrey to do something that's even stupid for him (and that's saying something for Joffrey), that benefited only LF
I agree. LF is just a mortal man who’s good at scheming
Wow! I love the explanation for Littlefinger's name. It makes perfect sense, and it's a wonderful new layer to an already complex, well written character.
Awesome video as usual 👍 Thank you for the gripping and enlightening content 😀
Thank you !! :)
Love your videos, always super compelling. But I'm not sold on this one. Doesn't that mean just about anyone who had a near death experience would have the chance to be as powerful as Bran? I think Bran is going to be a special case like how they describe other greenseers.
I think we might not have worded that part as well as we could have...Bran is an extremely powerful skinchanger, which makes him capable of being a greenseer, which allows the "seer" to use a weirwood in a similar fashion that glass candles are used in this world...being able to enter someone's mind without the use of a weirwood or glass candle is something that is only referenced by Melisandre in that quote we referred to a couple times, as a power the great other possesses...we believe the Three-Eyed-Crow is the form the Great Other takes in dreams, and some of this will make more sense after we've done our breakdown of Bran's falling dream/vision, but essentially being touched by the Great Other and becoming one of his instruments grants you the ability to enter human minds
Right...so aside from his near death experience (was it actually that bad of an injury he suffered?), is there any reason we know of why the Great Other would touch Petyr?
the great other appears to visit those he has use for...I'd say that LF is more than capable of being useful
Alright alright alright
yeaaaa
I wanted the first comment and like 😢😢😢 anyways thank you very much for the video
aw! thanks!!
The Order of the Green Hand great video as always 😊I loved it but you didn't talk about his end game tho...for the first time ever I disagree with you guys. First of all bran is a Warg lil finger isn't and the wargs are mainly the blood of the North and they are more in numbers the farther north you go so there's clearly something there. Second of all wargs can control people not just bran but they don't because it's looked down on by wargs. I forget his name (the six skin I mean) but he did control a woman just before he died and yes she went mad but he wasn't as strong as jon as he said just more experienced and bran is as or more powerfull than jon with the best teacher you could find so it's clear that it's not just him it's all wargs and wargs have the ability to go inside people's dreams as we heard from old nan which I believe is true coming from her... and if you remember also hodor freaked too and still does and he's not exactly grown mentally so I think this is prove why you're wrong..anyways I enjoyed it. LOVE
The Order of the Green Hand just one more thing.. Is this Lady green hand? cause there's something different in responding. If so happy to talk to you m'lady -bows-.
lol totally agrees and no offence to my lord but she's more...interactive and she strikes me as more joyful..🤔🤔 am full of humility and honored by her long awaited presence.
haha! :) yup! thats me. I tell people that I feel like any response feels grim without exclamation points in there! :)
Got my Moroccan meatballs and salad in hand cold orange juice and ready to go!!
I curse anyone who dislikes your videos to the Seven Hells! Between this series and your Cat series, you are hands down my new favorite channel.
thank you so much
For the love of god, don't give him magic. It would be easier to have him provide everything Joff needs. Start with small animals like cats and dogs encourage it, coddle the boy's sadism. Then say, "Why not a man? or a sick boy?" Joff would jump at it.
Joffrey *is* that deluded that he *would* think Robert would be proud of him, which also ties into why he would choose Bran as his first target. He thought he had justification for this murder, thereby thinking he would be in less trouble than if he'd done it to anyone else. Also, he wasn't really his "first target" (human target, maybe), as he killed that cat (baby serial killer stylez).
I love what you guys do, but I honestly have to say I don't think there's enough textual evidence to validate this theory. Suppose this particular plot thread is just one or more than George lost control or sight of and forgot to tie all the threads together. Yes, yes, he's wonderful and we all love him, but he's only human, and he may have dropped the ball in there somewhere.
On another note, or possibly even one connected to this topic; what do you guys know of obsidian candles? Or even Obsidian in general?
Amaaaazin, lookin forward to the next installment o'this series, reckon it's my favorite theory so far...and there are plenty enough to go on. Keep up the good work :)
Thank you
The biggest issue i have with this theory is the genetics of warging and why jojen wouldnt also have all of these abilities. There are clear genetic bloodlines from the first men that are connected to warging and you can follow the genetic matchups that create the magic, especially easily with bloodraven, obsessions and heritage. Littlefinger is famously of bravosi decent. So here are the challenges:
1. What indicates that littlefinger has first men magic powers other than he was once injured?
2. Why doesnt jojen have bran powers and just walk to the 3 eyed crow instead of shepherding bran?
Furthermore, i dont see why jauffre has to be involved in the attempt on brans life at all. The only person who gives info to that effect is littlefinger. Tyrion never remembers winning a dagger, nor does anyone else remember littlefinger losing it to robert. Why cant he have armed the cutthroat directly and cut out the middleman? Also how do we know he was in kings landing when robert visited? Thers no information corroborating it.
I agree that Littlefinger got his powers from the Three Eyed Crow, but I think it's clear these two are now at odds. The TEC needed Bran to take it into the Stark family crypts: an event I'm sure will later be revealed to be cataclysmic. The TEC needed Bran to lure Jojen Reed to free the "Winged Wolf". If Summer is to be believed, that definitely was not good. The TEC needed Bran to lure Jojen to the caverns North of the Wall where he would be turned to "Jojen Paste" to poison Bran and give him yet more powers.
If Littlefinger's catspaw had succeeded, none of that would have come to pass. What if Littlefinger is the hero? The mind boggles!
4:47 Enough of the repressed sexual fantasies of 17th century monks please.
Petyr Baelish, a common name for a common man. Petyr ,you can't get more common than stone.
Baelish , of the bayle, the outer court just inside the walls of
the castle.
A common man ,a villain, because he lives in the countryside. Nothing noble about him.
GRRM is playing with words again. This is not Aeschylus, where the gods manipulate everything.
This is Martin. People make choices. Some good, some not so good, some outright stupid, in which case they die from the consequences.
Or... maybe Littlefinger just hired the assassin, and it wasn't Joffrey at all.
And I think it's doubtless that the Three Eyed Crow is an agent of the Great Other. Because if the ability transferred to Bran from it, who else in the entire series do we see as having control over humans?
If you're theory is correct; it would seem that Little Finger and the Three Eyed Crow are now at odds. Little Finger wanted Bran dead. If Little Finger got his way, the Three Eyed Crow would not have made it into the Winterfell crypts, or losed the Winged Wolf that Summer/Bran see burn Winterfell, and Bran would not have made it to Bloodraven. What the hell is Baelish up to? What if he's the hero of this saga? The mind reels!
"Welcome to the wolf's den"
Ha! haha. brilliant ◀ (& I'm American, I don't use that term loosely!)
Which one of you came up with that?
Ironic that your vid was talking about GRRM'S views on the *importance* of names.
"A rose by any other name...".
GRRM is kinda like a modern day Shakespeare...
You guys ALWAYS hit on unique, "less obvious" points of view (?)
Like.....
You had me at "wolfs den"
👍
I hope that makes sense 😶
Love♥ your vids-
Appreciate 👏 your work
*Always* a pleasure you 2!
Thanks!
Littlefinger magical✨🎩🔮?
Perhaps that is why he wanted to kill Bran.
I like the Baelish Handbook Idea, but... I'm not feeling the near-death = 3rd eye thingie... I'm totally down with the idea that PB is & has been constantly & continuously planting seeds & manipulating people! that connection between *_Petyr and The Sicko-Boy-King Joffrey,_* seems soooooooo obvious now that you've told me!!! *_You're Brilliant_*_!_ I can't believe I missed it before! What with the twisted Roz sexy-time stuff!!! [LOL! smh] Thank you for the excellent videos, I really enjoy your channel, & appreciate all of your hard work! I love watching the beautiful eclectic cornucopia of your vast theories! Thank you for sharing the fun, looking forward to _Part IV_ ✌❤☺mg
When is part 4 coming???? These are amazing, Baelish is one of the best characters
1:19 Bran is a Stark and a Tully. Twice of the first men. The blood of the Singers, from both sides of the family, as with the rest of them. Bran is not special, he just can't walk, so he explored options the others disregarded.
Except Arya, who was blind at the time.
Sansa has not the desire, Rickon we don't yet know, too young by half, and John ..knows nothing.
Which means he knows everything he needs to know, but does not know what he knows yet. He lacks context to use what he knows.
this is top three games info site i believe
Thank you
Littlefinger died after his duel with Brenden Stark and was replaced either before he left River Run or on his way back to the Fingers after leaving River Run.
The only problem I have with this theory is, why did the 3 eyed raven give petyr baelish this ability in the first place? Since it can see the past and future it would probably know what petyrs desires are and that he wants to spread chaos.
To beat the white walkers the people have to be united, not separated - the 3 eyed raven would hurt his own goals with this.
That depends entirely on what his goals are in the first place :)
Questioning the motive is asinine if their is evidence in support of it, you just have to find his "motive"
3 eyed crow is not the same being as bloodraven.....
Wow!! All of it is amazing!! His name, the potential consequences of his near death and how he uses it! And more, much more! 💡
I'm going to see this again, again and more 😁
Thank you two for all this. Even if some of your theories would turn out to not be the right one. Just seeing the things from your perspective and thinking of the story that way, by itself, is an amazing experience.
On top of that, the way you present all of it to us keeps getting better and better.
Keep on 💓Thank You!
thank you Joana...sorry I have been absent from the comment section for a few days and took so long to respond...we've both been really busy this week and we fell way behind
Don't be sorry fot that! 😘 You don't even have to answer me or the comments. Though we love that you do! 💓 Thank you!
Besides that, I've been super busy too. I just saw your answer now (also, i only get my youtube notifications when i login in a web browser, the app i use most of the times doesn't give me any notifications).
Another thing: as i still didn't get to explore and know how to use youtube private messages, I'm going to send you a message on facebook. 😉
And, of course, no rush in answering. It isn't something of much importance, anyway! 🤗
So... does it make any sense to ponder a 3-eyed mockingbird? When did Petyr change his sigil? Might he have wanted to make it a crow... and then though that maybe a similar bird, a mockingbird, would be more appropriate?
Gotta say I love your videos! Saw this video when it was released and stumbled upon Ideas of ASOIAF Theories: Shadows of The East | Old Ones Rising (th-cam.com/video/jfNHvdScQo8/w-d-xo.html) and connecting both of your videos just adds up to your proofs list about Baelish. Since GRRM loves to reference to Lovecraft.
Keep up the good work!
#Lifetimesubscriptioneertoyourchannel
I have also theorized that Littlefinger has been stealing money and saving to hire the faceless men to seek revenge on house Stark. When Littlefinger went to Bravos to hire the faceless men he was sacrificed and replaced.
George's Stan Lee quote..I'm not a comic buff, well I am but not really aka I don't know much..I'm guessing Wonder Man is the Character he's talking about? Or what character in "Wonder Man" is he alluding to? I'm guessing you know? Just wondering...thanks! Anyone can answer! Obviously, haha!
"Yeah...Just stick with Me, Sansa-Baby. And You & I? You & Me, Baby, we're gonna go straight to the top. You'll have everything your little red-headed heart desires. Look at Me, Mama, if I'm lyin' I'm flyin'.."
Yup, that's some classic pimp talk right there.
I supposed this is the "myth" part of the series. The evidence is too sparse to accept the idea that Littlefinger is manipulating people through their dreams. But it's still a fun idea.
I love your videos... obviously have not watched them all but just found this after doing some searching... after watching tonights GOT episode ep.3 s.7... what LF and Bran (TER) said fits your video perfectly! Love it... love that it validates what i picked up too. Your videos are wonderful!
How about this for Littlefingers involvement; after Jon Arryn died, Robert took his court to WInterfell, which took a Month, maybe more... Remember Littlefinger had Jon Arryn killed and could anticipate what was likely to happen. Cat urges Ned to take the job (Lysa's note insured that), the person who deliverd the 'Myrish lens' was Littlefingers man and had orders to 'Kill' a Stark and leave incriminating evidence that would connect to a Lannister (there were 6 present). That it was Bran, was just lucky chaos, just like Littlefinger likes ;)
It seems to me that the obvious motive for Joffrey to kill Bran was spite against Tyrion for slapping him at Winterfell.
POV characters almost always give a plausible but wrong answer to the major mysteries of the series. Jaime's answer is that Joffrey wanted to impress Robert. That answer is probably more based in Jaime's own subconscious desire to impress his father Tywin than anything that happened at Winterfell.
Tyrion's is stumped and eventually puts it down to Joffrey being vicious and stupid. While this is closer to the truth, Tyrion is wrong in that he never considers that his own actions, i.e. slapping Joffrey, as a possible cause. It's simply a blindspot for Tyrion because he thinks he's so great. Ironically, it is Joffrey who remembers the slap while Tyrion forgets it.
Joffrey did not feel sorry for Bran and was annoyed by the constant howling of not-yet-named Summer. He hears how it would be a "mercy" to kill Bran and he even jokes about killing Summer with the Hound. Tyrion comes along and insists that Joffrey offer his condolences to Lord and Lady Stark, which annoys Joffrey because he possesses neither sympathy nor respect for the Starks. Then Tyrion slaps him - hard - embarrassing him. Joffrey, in his sick little mind, thinks, "You know what? I'll show Tyrion! To hell with that little kid. I never liked him anyway."
At this point, Littlefinger springs his trap by sending the catspaw to Joffrey, who then brilliantly "hires" said catspaw to kill Bran. I am not sure what means Littlefinger used to stay in touch with goings-on at Winterfell although the 3-eyed crow idea is a possibility. I would prefer to think it is something less supernatural but let's see.
Anyway, to me, this motive is corroborated by events in a Clash of Kings. Tyrion slaps Joffrey again after the riot. Like an evolving psychopath, Joffrey uses the same MO but adapts it. Rather than focusing on the reason that Tyrion slapped him, e.g. Bran, this time he puts the target squarely on Tyrion himself. He sends his kingsguard to make sure Tyrion has an "accident" during the battle. True to form as POV character, Tyrion gets it wrong and is convinced that Cersei was behind it. He still doesn't get that his own actions towards Joffrey have consequences.
If what you guys are saying about Littlefinger is correct, it could be that he also influenced Joffrey's choice to send Mandon Moore to kill Tyrion during the battle (maybe you'll get to that in a later video).
Little Finger give Rauz to Joffrey to use his crossbow on... Joffrey liked killing woman in his person chamber's and Little Finger supplied the woman! This was after she gave Lord Varys information about Little Finger. I remember a scene where Rauz is tied up with arrows all over her body from Joffrey's crossbow! Then after all that, Little Finger sides with the Stark's the very House he tried to have eradicated... If it wasn't for Bran's Greensite Little Finger would have succeeded... All so he could try and marry the his new fancy: Sansa!