I am ignorant about volleyball and I've been trying to understand this to no avail. These two are absolute carries and what's more interesting is matches are chock full of this. In the first one actually there's a stop, the guy palms the ball and leads it, that's not the ball's own trajectory. In the second one the guy changes the ball's direction. There're so many instances where it the looks like the ball is given another direction by not the wrists but knuckle+finger movement. If there was rebounce then you could say palming and or knuckling it would have been no different than just smacking it or hitting it flathandedly but these balls look like they're not flying but floating when this thing happens at slower speeds. The darn ball looks like it's dancing in the air of its own volition and it happens so many times without any intervention from referees. So I don’t think I'll ever get it.
I think both examples would be called a fault without the block. The "catch and throw" has to occur before the block touches it for the play to be called a fault. Rule 9.1.2.3 states: "If simultaneous hits by two opponents over the net lead to an extended contact with the ball, play continues." In your examples you clearly see the "catching" but the block intercepts the "throwing" and makes "extended contact with the ball" legal.
Agreed, the first one is just a joust in the net for the ball. Hence, it is legal. The second one, you can clearly see that the ball is thrown up and down instead of the first player's movement which was up and into the block.
@@odari-1071 I agree, the contact in the second one is not considered a block since it he is not intercepting it from the other team. So forth the contact can't be extended which would make it a catch and throw.
But the rule says "the ball must not be caught and/OR twrown". It's not only AND joining catch and throw, each of the catch and throw are mistakes by itself
The player accompanies the ball with the hand. The ball does not bounce from the contact. This is a push. The guy is a shot putter. By the logic of this being legal you could throw your set from belly button and release at chin. This is never legal and the referee is a dreamer.
@2:52 The second one, the player wiped off the block, but was still touching the ball after the block was wiped. The last person to touch the ball before going out was the attacker. Though this is so hard to call in real time without these cameras angles
Thanks for this video. Both of those examples look to me like the attacker is pushing the ball long enough to constitute a "carry" in my mind. I'm using the word "pushing" on purpose to choose a word that's not part of the rules; maybe that's even more confusing, though! But I'm seeing it as there isn't a "rebound" in the sense of the ball being contacted by the attacker and then "rebounding" off of their hand. More they contact the ball, then push it towards where they want it to go and then eventually stop pushing it and the ball comes off. It seems super clear to me, as the attacker's hand in the second case is touching the ball for well over a foot or so of its travel. He "pushes" the ball all the way into and then through the right hand of the blocker, then he stopped pushing it well after it's past the blocker's hand. And actually, in that second case, since the last player in contact with the ball before it landed out of bounds was the attacker, it seems like whether or not they call the attacker's play a carry or a caught ball, the point should go to the Polish team, as the USA player touched the ball last before it landed out of bounds. (I'm applying like a basketball concept here for when the ball goes out of bounds.) Tricky stuff for referees at live speed!!
@@sebastianalarcon7986 Yes it was tipped, but as the other person pointed out, the spiker was still touching the ball after the blocker tipped it. Wouldn't this mean the point goes to the blocker's team?
@@deoplo5988 In my opinion, the fact that both the blocker and attacker were in contact with the ball, trying to push it in oposite directions means this is a joust. If I remember correctly, according to the FIVB rulebook, if the ball is out of bounds after a joust, it is always the defending team that scores the point, even if their player was technically the last player to be in contact with the ball (so long as no additional touches were made after the joust). Hence even if this is not judged a catch & throw, the defending team still ought to get the point.
So basically saying the ball should leave your hand right after contact ? Total carries in my opinion Basically holding the ball in his hand and pushing it To my eye at least
Fun Fact: Even if there was no throw call on the second ball, it should still have gone to Poland. The USA (red) player touched the ball, "tipped" it into the block and when the ball was past the block (blocker's fingers were no longer touching the ball) the red player STILL touched the ball and played it out th-cam.com/video/z0l-CtTfZOM/w-d-xo.html. It should probably have been called for a carry, but that rarely happens at VNL level
@@knudgentz4391 Since both attacker and blocker simultaneously touched the ball for a moment, it was a joust. After joust the team receives the point on which side the ball went out.
@@sk.43821 IMHO it is not necessarily a joust when the ball briefly touches both players' hands simultaneously. But in the end we are in agreement that the defending team should have been awarded the point since the last impulse on the ball came from the attacker.
Sir I have a small doubt In the middle of the game ,the ball just placed over the net equally two sides of the court ,two players of opposite teams caught the ball at same time , spontaneously they two of them played out of the court with contact each other.one of the player used right hand and other is left hand.the ball got outside of the court in the right hand player side. The both used only one hand ... Who will got the point....?
I had watched a match before when the ref made a bad call on the tip of my former team. I thought it was hold too when the opposing team aggressively called for holding. They were not happy lol
First example goes cleanly in one direction, so it’s legal (although would’ve been better if he hadn’t used his whole hand). The second example goes in two different directions, so that’s a throw, and should be whistled illegal.
Nah, he was pushing the ball out off the fingers. He never pushed in two different directions. The first one the guy clearly was pushing the ball up (change in direction) and if there was no block there it would have been called immediately.
Sir I want to ask one genuine question .my question is when the match is going on condition is like when opponent team serv.. Then the ball gose to another team and then immediately they will touch which is considered to be a 1st touch for receive.. Then after they will go for second touch while one of a team member touch the ball but while touching the ball if there is a clash between their teammate and ball is still in their court then what would be a decision..,? Is it good acceptable ? Sir I'm talking about 2nd touch.. Example if I'm playing and I'm touching 2nd ball while touching my teammates bodily contact with me but the ball is contact by me my friend just touched my body. Is it fault.,?
Bishal Rai no I don’t think it would be a fault in the example you gave and from the video. As long as he doesn’t touch the ball as well and only the player it shouldn’t be a fault.
If both of them touchen then passed to oppenent court so this means u guys touched 3 times its legal... If ball still in your court then u guyz cant touch it.. Because its already touched 3 times
if only you touched the ball and set it, there can still be a spike/attack. if both of you happen to touch it, then it should go over the net, otherwise its the opponents point after it lands on your court, or a 4th person touches it
Lifts and doubles really shouldn't be interpreted using slow motion. The speed at which these things occur matters and not set or soft touch is ever perfect when zoomed and slowed enough. Good video showing the nuances though.
In the first case, the ball is accompanied by the hand, no bounce. This is a "carry" and by the rules it is considered a throw. Same as on a set if you accompany the ball with your hand for this distance or time.
It's a catch and throw, clearly the idea was to do a fait. You only do faints with your 4 fingers, this is called a dink and it's allowed, if you're using your whole hand with palm then that's considered catch and throw as shown in the first vid
Also the tip with fingers can have a too much prolonged time of contact. This is also called a throw, same as a setting fault. Only the time of contact to the ball is the criterion, not which part of your hand you use.
The grey area is when you get a natural athlete like a basketball player who has great finger tip control and can tap effectively in a direction without catching or using a palm. The non-athletic/ basketball types cry every single time and it's not illegal. In my experience. But b aue they can't do it - you best believe they will all cry until you aren't allowed to play up to your ability and have to look more like them when you play.
For me, I think it’s all good as long as the player is in mid-air. Cause if it’s a dual, both players gonna be pushing the ball against one another and the net will decide who the winner is.
It's kind of hilarious seeing these 7ft monsters pull this crap. We should just ban open hand tips like in beach rules. Open hand tips are also terrible for the spectator experience too.
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I am ignorant about volleyball and I've been trying to understand this to no avail. These two are absolute carries and what's more interesting is matches are chock full of this.
In the first one actually there's a stop, the guy palms the ball and leads it, that's not the ball's own trajectory. In the second one the guy changes the ball's direction. There're so many instances where it the looks like the ball is given another direction by not the wrists but knuckle+finger movement. If there was rebounce then you could say palming and or knuckling it would have been no different than just smacking it or hitting it flathandedly but these balls look like they're not flying but floating when this thing happens at slower speeds. The darn ball looks like it's dancing in the air of its own volition and it happens so many times without any intervention from referees. So I don’t think I'll ever get it.
Finally! We need more quality instructional videos like this.
I think both examples would be called a fault without the block. The "catch and throw" has to occur before the block touches it for the play to be called a fault.
Rule 9.1.2.3 states: "If simultaneous hits by two opponents over the net lead to an extended contact with the ball, play continues."
In your examples you clearly see the "catching" but the block intercepts the "throwing" and makes "extended contact with the ball" legal.
Agreed, the first one is just a joust in the net for the ball. Hence, it is legal. The second one, you can clearly see that the ball is thrown up and down instead of the first player's movement which was up and into the block.
@@odari-1071 I agree, the contact in the second one is not considered a block since it he is not intercepting it from the other team. So forth the contact can't be extended which would make it a catch and throw.
Hii
But the rule says "the ball must not be caught and/OR twrown". It's not only AND joining catch and throw, each of the catch and throw are mistakes by itself
The player accompanies the ball with the hand. The ball does not bounce from the contact. This is a push. The guy is a shot putter.
By the logic of this being legal you could throw your set from belly button and release at chin.
This is never legal and the referee is a dreamer.
@2:52 The second one, the player wiped off the block, but was still touching the ball after the block was wiped. The last person to touch the ball before going out was the attacker. Though this is so hard to call in real time without these cameras angles
Thanks for this video. Both of those examples look to me like the attacker is pushing the ball long enough to constitute a "carry" in my mind. I'm using the word "pushing" on purpose to choose a word that's not part of the rules; maybe that's even more confusing, though! But I'm seeing it as there isn't a "rebound" in the sense of the ball being contacted by the attacker and then "rebounding" off of their hand. More they contact the ball, then push it towards where they want it to go and then eventually stop pushing it and the ball comes off. It seems super clear to me, as the attacker's hand in the second case is touching the ball for well over a foot or so of its travel. He "pushes" the ball all the way into and then through the right hand of the blocker, then he stopped pushing it well after it's past the blocker's hand.
And actually, in that second case, since the last player in contact with the ball before it landed out of bounds was the attacker, it seems like whether or not they call the attacker's play a carry or a caught ball, the point should go to the Polish team, as the USA player touched the ball last before it landed out of bounds. (I'm applying like a basketball concept here for when the ball goes out of bounds.)
Tricky stuff for referees at live speed!!
The second one was tipped my the blocker which was the reason why the attacking team got the point even thought it went off bounds
@@sebastianalarcon7986 Yes it was tipped, but as the other person pointed out, the spiker was still touching the ball after the blocker tipped it. Wouldn't this mean the point goes to the blocker's team?
@@deoplo5988 In my opinion, the fact that both the blocker and attacker were in contact with the ball, trying to push it in oposite directions means this is a joust. If I remember correctly, according to the FIVB rulebook, if the ball is out of bounds after a joust, it is always the defending team that scores the point, even if their player was technically the last player to be in contact with the ball (so long as no additional touches were made after the joust).
Hence even if this is not judged a catch & throw, the defending team still ought to get the point.
So basically saying the ball should leave your hand right after contact ?
Total carries in my opinion
Basically holding the ball in his hand and pushing it
To my eye at least
Fun Fact: Even if there was no throw call on the second ball, it should still have gone to Poland. The USA (red) player touched the ball, "tipped" it into the block and when the ball was past the block (blocker's fingers were no longer touching the ball) the red player STILL touched the ball and played it out th-cam.com/video/z0l-CtTfZOM/w-d-xo.html. It should probably have been called for a carry, but that rarely happens at VNL level
Plus, it was an illegal set. But to be honest, it was only very clear to me in slow motion. In real speed I would have doubted and not penaltied.
@@WimVandewijngaerde why would it be an illegal set? Did i miss something?
@@knudgentz4391 if you watch the replay, it is was a double touch by the setter.
@@knudgentz4391 Since both attacker and blocker simultaneously touched the ball for a moment, it was a joust. After joust the team receives the point on which side the ball went out.
@@sk.43821 IMHO it is not necessarily a joust when the ball briefly touches both players' hands simultaneously. But in the end we are in agreement that the defending team should have been awarded the point since the last impulse on the ball came from the attacker.
The rules also state prolonged contact is allowed if its a joust (both players fighting to put it over thr net)
I agree with your assessment.
Looks like a catch and throw in both cases, the second is very clear IMO.
These are both pretty obvious to me. I play mostly B and BB and these would be called every single time.
He just gave what they did back to them. As long as it was called the same as the other team is all I care about...
Sir I have a small doubt
In the middle of the game ,the ball just placed over the net equally two sides of the court ,two players of opposite teams caught the ball at same time , spontaneously they two of them played out of the court with contact each other.one of the player used right hand and other is left hand.the ball got outside of the court in the right hand player side.
The both used only one hand ...
Who will got the point....?
Anyone else came here after making a bad call on a carry? lol. This is the only reason I’m here.
Yes me😂
They nearly fought me in court
@@LASTUNSULLIED I actually made a bad call 2 days ago too lol. I thought the ball bounced off the net but the opponent actually touched it.
I had watched a match before when the ref made a bad call on the tip of my former team. I thought it was hold too when the opposing team aggressively called for holding. They were not happy lol
First example goes cleanly in one direction, so it’s legal (although would’ve been better if he hadn’t used his whole hand). The second example goes in two different directions, so that’s a throw, and should be whistled illegal.
Nah, he was pushing the ball out off the fingers. He never pushed in two different directions. The first one the guy clearly was pushing the ball up (change in direction) and if there was no block there it would have been called immediately.
schmitty8225 “up” isn’t a change in direction.
@@hautehussey Yes it is. Unless now you can catch a ball and throw it up granny style.
schmitty8225 Catching it and throwing it up granny style would be more than one direction
@@hautehussey so your saying up is a direction now?
Carry violation?
Sir I want to ask one genuine question .my question is when the match is going on condition is like when opponent team serv.. Then the ball gose to another team and then immediately they will touch which is considered to be a 1st touch for receive.. Then after they will go for second touch while one of a team member touch the ball but while touching the ball if there is a clash between their teammate and ball is still in their court then what would be a decision..,? Is it good acceptable ? Sir I'm talking about 2nd touch.. Example if I'm playing and I'm touching 2nd ball while touching my teammates bodily contact with me but the ball is contact by me my friend just touched my body. Is it fault.,?
Bishal Rai no I don’t think it would be a fault in the example you gave and from the video. As long as he doesn’t touch the ball as well and only the player it shouldn’t be a fault.
If both of them touchen then passed to oppenent court so this means u guys touched 3 times its legal... If ball still in your court then u guyz cant touch it.. Because its already touched 3 times
if only you touched the ball and set it, there can still be a spike/attack. if both of you happen to touch it, then it should go over the net, otherwise its the opponents point after it lands on your court, or a 4th person touches it
Lifts and doubles really shouldn't be interpreted using slow motion. The speed at which these things occur matters and not set or soft touch is ever perfect when zoomed and slowed enough. Good video showing the nuances though.
That was a catch and throw!
“You can’t throw the ball”
**jump serves**
Once you say "carry" it misleads you. It different move. There is no carry mistake. It is a catch and/or throw. Ball wasn't caught
In the first case, the ball is accompanied by the hand, no bounce. This is a "carry" and by the rules it is considered a throw. Same as on a set if you accompany the ball with your hand for this distance or time.
he was dunking that damn ball bro 😂
Catch ball
Simple. If your not smacking the ball your carrying it. Period.
This type of overthinking is why I'm staying away
It's a catch and throw, clearly the idea was to do a fait. You only do faints with your 4 fingers, this is called a dink and it's allowed, if you're using your whole hand with palm then that's considered catch and throw as shown in the first vid
Also the tip with fingers can have a too much prolonged time of contact. This is also called a throw, same as a setting fault. Only the time of contact to the ball is the criterion, not which part of your hand you use.
The grey area is when you get a natural athlete like a basketball player who has great finger tip control and can tap effectively in a direction without catching or using a palm. The non-athletic/ basketball types cry every single time and it's not illegal. In my experience. But b aue they can't do it - you best believe they will all cry until you aren't allowed to play up to your ability and have to look more like them when you play.
For me, I think it’s all good as long as the player is in mid-air.
Cause if it’s a dual, both players gonna be pushing the ball against one another and the net will decide who the winner is.
Damn, I got ragged by my referee.
They're both carries.
@ആമീൻ 😂
It's kind of hilarious seeing these 7ft monsters pull this crap. We should just ban open hand tips like in beach rules. Open hand tips are also terrible for the spectator experience too.
for me it's legal... what illegal for me is using your foot to save the ball..
You are a great handball player. Thanks for your assessment.
why tho?