I’m an ismaili from gilgit baltistan, I’m not really spiritual but I still consider myself to be part of it because it is intertwined with my culture and I do enjoy the celebrations and festivities that come with it. The reason why people at least where I’m from are so devoted to the aga khan or Ismailism in general is because before the aga khan foundation arrived, my parent and grandparent and great grand parent had nothing, I mean they were in such terrible poverty I can’t even count how many stories my grand parents have told about how touch it was to live in the mountains back then, we didn’t even have hospitals and due to that infant mortality was rampant, in my own family so many children were lost because of the lack of medical services and when the aga khan foundation arrived they built a hospital in our village which saved so many people, they created pipeline systems for drinking water and many other things. I’m glad that I am an ismaili rather than Sunni because the people in my family enjoy the freedoms that other sects do not, there are no women where I’m from who have to wear the burqa or the hijab and my great grandmother hates the concept of both so I just wanted give some extra information about ismailism. sorry about my terrible grammar.
@@amyl2096 Yeah but I don't know where my people would be right now with out The Aga Khan foundation honestly, still probably in deep poverty or wiped out by the Punjabi gov
When you put it like that, it sounds like you were just paying an insurance company - where everyone pays in and people in need get payouts from the overall fund, but the overall administrator gleans off enough profit off the top so that they can live in luxury. I don't see what that has to do with Islam or any religion. Another way of thinking about it is that it just sounds like a charitable organisation - except donations come from followers, rather than the general public. It's just a business model.
@@XiagraBalls In a way it is sort of insurance because we are surrounded by Sunni's and a lot of them do not think of us as real Muslims so with out AKDN they would probably try to assimilate us whether we liked it or not. The mentality that they taught us is that there is a balance between the spiritual and material world so that why you have to do good in both which means that most Ismailis do put priority on education. Most people in my family are educated because of this and we don't go around preaching about what other people should do so the business model aspect sort of has it's effects. We are also encouraged to adapt to changes so ismailis who immigrate to other countries rarely try to cause problems.
@Sara Michael Ashrafno, but it was really interesting👌🏻I thought that Ismailism differs just a bit from Sunnism, but it's toootally different. Was really surprised!!!
So I’ve heard. However, I was asking whether or not they associate themselves with those terms (Ashari or Maturidi) consciously, or if they simply follow Sunni Islam as they know it, unconscious of whether they are following according to a particular school of thought. Does a Muslim who folllows according to the Ashari school actually *think of himself as* Ashari?
@@jamesgordley5000 well,on general, sunni is the one who follow sunnah, in opposite to Shia. But within the school they define differently, i grew on Ashari madrassa, on their lecture they stated that Ahlussunnah Waljamaah (Sunni) is only the one who follow Ashari and Maturidi School on Creed, 4 madzhab on Fiqh, and follow Al Ghazali and Al Baghdadi on Tasawwuf (CMIIW). But i also have longtime on Salafi, they define Sunni as the one who follow Alquran, Sunna, and teaching of 3 generation of Early muslim.
As an ismaili muslim, i want to say that this discussion, while i dont agree with everything said, was very respectful. Its a lot better than what ive seen other muslims say about our community.
You guys are doing such a great job, a service that is very important. You both have a great contribution since you have come out of the muslim world and know it from the inside. Keep on doing the good work. I had a good friend in 68 in Islamabad, his name was smiley, very bright and broad minded, I lost touch with him. I wish all muslims were like him.
If there is going to be Islam in the world it's too bad that Ismailism isn't the dominant strain. It does have its drawbacks but compared to other versions it's got a lot going for it
If you belong to a religion or sect that constitutes a minority in a non-democratic country, you will receive a religious education that always encourages tolerance.
1:07:35 _"I wish the entire Muslim community was Ismaili."_ - yeah, me too... can you imagine how different the world would look today, on the religious (and social) sphere? Sigh..
If you were born in Kenya and are Ismaili, chances are you have a gujrati background. I'll leave it to you to dig into it, but Gujarat was a hotspot for Ismaili's outside of Persia, predating the migration of Ismaili's to East Africa.
Khoja ... a Hindu Gujarati community that converted to Ismali Ofc some became The founder of Pakistan was born ismaili but became a twelver Shia later on
@Abdullah Sameer, this was very informative. Should include the Islamic tree in your presentation to show where the different (major) sects fall under. Should have a discussion with an Ahmadiyah ex-Muslim
Good channel for those who run away from God and religious obligations. The amazing thing with Islam is that, it is replacing the garbage followers with scientists and doctors converts. Alhamdulillah.
Ismailin started at 12th century in Iran Qazvin Alamut mountain and Alamut castle, their leader was Hassan Sabbah and called them Hashishin in kharazm shahian Kingdome, at time of Turkan Hatun and jalaladin Kharazmshahi , they were very powerful and had spies everywhere almost all around mi=ddle east and Asia. that castle destroyed by Teymour Lang.
I am an Ismaili.. Beauty of Ismailism is 1 it's allowed to leave Ismailism but if you want to become Ismaili you will have to study Ismailism first then if you are satisfied you can convert. 2 as far as dasond (zakat) is concern you are free if you want to pay or not ,dasond money is used to run hospital's , community work, Schools etc there are 200 schools running in my country with that money. 3 in Ismailism you can marry anyone you want no prohibition that you can't marry a Christan,Jew or atheist. 4 you can criticize imam nobody will give fatwa to cut the throat 😜 5 it's guidance of imam that if you have a son and a daughter and you afford education of any One of them , educate you daughter first. 6 anybody from any faith or religion Christian,Jew Hindu, atheist can work and head the Aga Khan development network. Is it a cult I don't think so.
Two brief things about this - There is no apparatus within the Ismaili board to keep track of who gives what. While 1/8 is the common tithe, you can give however much, whenever you like. I'd wager half the jamat does not meet that number. I certainly don't. No one has ever asked or scorned.
Great to see you two together. But come on AP don't you know that Abdullah Sameer is 'your friendly Exmuslim'. You can't start telling him to be yet more friendly.
One of the doctors I work with is Ismail , and your absolutely right, she looks normal and acts like an non Muslim. I went to her house and her entire home was covered with Aga khan photos. Very cult like.
Idk man, I'm Ismaili and have never seen "entire homes covered". People keep photos, yeah, but people keep pictures of Jesus and Ayatollahs and whomever. But there's no such thing as a shrine to Aga Khan for example.
Rita Gameiro, and that is creepy too but there is a difference on the creepiness scale between you liking a musician and a whole family having to like a musician because the head of the household likes them
There are a bunch of distinct differences between Aga Khan and a cult leader. A few of them include - no focus on recruitment or indoctrination. No 'us vs them' mentality. No exulting of unethical behaviour (victim complex). No one dictates how a murid should live their lives. No mandate to dedication of ones time. No disparagement of questioning or doubt. No penalty for apostasy. No subservience. No requirement to socialize within the walls. That's 90% of the list which defines a cult. There are definitely a few things though, an implied devotion to a living leader. The focus on for-profit initiatives. The lack of anyone for Aga Khan to answer to.
@@ComboBreakerHDIsmailis sect is a modern version of Islam. Living according to today’s era and there’s an Imam/ leader who is alive and we following his guidance. He’s not prophet nor god just a leader. Who is very goal oriented and serving people in different countries. Lots of charity work and support for the poor. It’s a very progressive community.
As someone has recommended in the live chat, read Old path White Clouds by Thich Nhat Hanh and Dhammapada, the latter is short. Shanthideva is not bad too even though it comes from a 'new' tradition. Buddhism does not proselytise. It is not a religion or a faith. Just practice if you like, before that one has to use his/her reasoning to understand it, like the parable of the poisoned arrow. It is not a dogma, but self realisation, self understanding, without hate, anger, violence, prejudice, but with love, kindness,, compassion and mercy. Santhideva highlight all of them as you have read him.
Looking up the blood thirsty Ismaili assasins history is pretty interesting. They tried messing with the Mongols and lost horribly bad though lol. It wasn't even a competition
32:15 The Ismailis *ruled* the Muslim world? Wow, I never knew about this. And I see a pic of the Fatimid Dynasty - the Fatimids were Ismailis? Really low-key information today.. 🤔
Also when muslims and Hindus clashed on a large scale the Muslims got the best of hindus. That is why there are so many Muslims in India. That is why Pakistan exists lol.
"The stuff they believe about their leader is what people THINK Catholics believe about the pope" This just what EVERY religion says about other religions, to help them feel like "MY religion is really special and unique, and people only THINK it relies on the exact same fallacious logic as all those other religions... But really, mine is the ONE religion that's super-duper-reasonable, and has great evidence!!!" Ismalis, Sufis, Shi'ites, Sunni, Baptists, Mormons, Jews, Scientologists- they ALL have other "lesser" religions they point at, and tell themselves "Wow!! That's just like what people THINK my religion is like..." with the unspoken implication of "...but REALLY my religion is waaaay more sensible than all that silly nonsense." Thinking your religion is special, and different to all the others, and mis-understood, and that if people REALLY understood your religion, they'd see it all makes perfect sense, are all the traits that make your religion EXACTLY the same as every single other religion in the world...
@@baconsarny-geddon8298 you’re really narrow minded, he didn’t talk about the religion as a whole but just what people believe the relation between the pope and the catholic community is. You’re throwing a tantrum like a baby.
@@baconsarny-geddon8298 What you are saying probably has a technical term, but I don't know it. So, I will just call it an over generalisation. There are certain specific, objective facts that make different religions unique. These can be pointed out and discussed without this being _traits that make your religion EXACTLY the same as every single other religion in the world._ All religions are not the same, there are fundamental differences. Roman Catholicism has some very unique features, whereas you would be hard-pressed to find any major differences between Baptists, Methodists or Anglicans. There are ver fundamental differences between Islam, Christianity, Hinduism and Buddhism, there is also such a thing as evidence. Some religions can stand on a historical beginning others have no historical grounding. These can be proven by anyone being objective in their research. In conclusion, you have overgeneralised differences being mentioned and falsely asserted that all religions are "exactly" the same.
Well, to me any of these religions are ridicolus. Im a lutheran Christian myself (on paper). We dont have any leader with a ''pointy hat'' or infinite wisdom or... what ever. I think lutheran christianity is most relaxed religion on earth. You have 0 obligation to do anything and i have witnessed 0 lutherans trying to convert someone.
Wonderful collaboration, as always! It seems as if Ismailism is like the Shia equivalent of Sufism. Seriously though, Ismailism seems like the Islamic version of some hippy non-denominational church that wants to be some chill well liked social club, versus a religion
@@FriendlyExmuslim I am smoking Recorded History. The "Assassins" were Ismaili. The Ismaili, like all Shia have a long history of Jihad not only against non-Muslims, but against other Muslims, Shia and Sunni alike.... since Islam is like Highlander, "there can only be one". Sorry, but you didn't learn much about Ismailism. You got the nice surface teachings for suckers. Like the Ahmadiyya, the Ismaili also falsely claim that Jihad is not pare of "real" Islam. They deliberately cause confusion and sabotage efforts to deal with Jihad terrorism that is fundamental to Islam. It is what it is.
@@funlife3484 I guess I'm a little more surprised that he was unfamiliar with much of this stuff. Shows how few people know what happens within the sect despite its broad representation in progressive society.
There are a bunch of distinct differences between Aga Khan and a cult leader. A few of them include - no focus on recruitment or indoctrination. No 'us vs them' mentality. No exulting of unethical behaviour (victim complex). No one dictates how a murid should live their lives. No mandate to dedication of ones time. No disparagement of questioning or doubt. No penalty for apostasy. No subservience (no one puts the faith before family). No requirement to socialize only within the walls. That's 90% of the list which defines a cult. There are definitely a few things though, an implied devotion to a living leader. The focus on for-profit initiatives. The lack of anyone for Aga Khan to answer to.
Hard disagree. There is no focus on recruitment, because there is already a large membership and additional scrutiny is unwelcome. However there is a lot of indoctrination. BUI/REC gets the young kids, al-Ummah for teenagers, STEP for young adults, IIS for putting out propaganda for outsiders. The Us vs Them mentality is subtle, but still there and the victim complex is definitely a big part - that is how taqiyya is justified. Ismailis claim to be persecuted, and this is how Aga Khan's silence and secrecy is justified. How a murid should live is dictated, to a lesser extent, but it is still there. Older firmans go into the dictates much more. Dedication of ones time is also emphasized, from Time and Tnowledge Nazrana to Ismaili Volunteer Corp (whose motto is Work, No Words). There is lipservice paid to intellect and questioning but in practice questioning and doubt is disparaged - just look at Ismaili constitution prohibiting any criticism. Faith before family is also practiced - talk to some exismailis. All of this ignores the more fundamental cult characteristics - a leader considered a Avatar of God, the focus on money, extreme secrecy, esoteric truths, progression to higher levels of understanding (bol - ism-e-azam), etc. Looking at list of characteristics associated with cultic groups, by the International Cultic Studies Association - no doubt Ismailism scores highly on the cult scale.
@@necspenecmetu3 there's only one problem with this though, exactly none of it is enforced. These programmes, what you call indoctrination, exist because the board is sophisticated. But it's certainly no madrassa. You go if you want, it is absolutely not a requirement. Even through waez - direct messages from aga khan - there is no emphasis on actionable behaviour. The messages of pluralism and meritocracy are not actionable. Therefore there is no directive on how to live by action. Mere reminders to be tolerant and accepting of foreign ideas is a harmless ethos. Volunteering, same thing. Encouraged but not mandatory. Don't see the problem here. Criticism, of course it's discouraged, but again there is zero enforcement. You will not get in trouble for going to mukhi or objecting at BUI on the validity of a murids role to the ummah. Again though all of what makes a cult implies that insubordination merits a response from the jamat. As an Ismaili I can tell you with absolute certainty that there is no apparatus to keep these blinders on murids. And this is why I bring up subservience. In any other cult, the idea that a child commits an act of say, apostasy, is met with a response from the board. Not in Ismailiism. There are plenty of murids with flimsy devotion to faith walking our halls. There is plenty of free expression and gender non-conformity, none of it is met with backlash from family or the jamat. I don't know a single Ismaili whose had go choose, support their child or the ummah, that's just not a choice being made. I know there are some sour ex-Ismailis but I would posit that their gripes are more the result of the culture they exist in rather than the faith itself. Being that, again, there is no apparatus to punish anyone for anything, it's difficult to argue that whatever they've faced came because the board or jamat made it so.
Alright actually, lets put all this aside for one sec, I have a question which is fundamental to what defines a cult. Can something be a cult, if someone cannot be kicked out or excommunicated from it?
@@FriendlyExmuslim Thank you. I met them when I visited Sri Lanka to learn Buddhism. In fact they are not only very rich traders but also well educated, and some are professionals in medicine and engineering. At the same time I also met a similar group of people, Parsis [not Muslims but Zoroastrians], filthy rich, well educated, high end professional how lived in their own enclosed areas
The black stone thing shows that Allah preferred the polytheists and protected the black stone when in the hands of the pagans but allowed it to be stolen and held to ransom when it was in the hands of the Muslims.
Different strokes for different folks. Ismailis believe in Pluralism. That means that we believe that all religions are good. No religion preaches evil. All religions lead us to Allah. The Aga Khan is not Allah but a spiritual leader of the Ismaili community. What Abdullah Sameer is talking about is the rituals in Ismailism. But then every religion , or branch of it or a sect of it has some different ritual and ways of practicing their faith. So what ? As I said different strokes for different folks. Eventually, after our death we end up to reunite with Allah'. So whether a person is a Muslim, a Christian. a Jew, a Hindu, a Buddhist or any other religion, your soul reunites with the Source of all Creations who we call Allah in Ismailism. Allah is known by many names depending on the religion you belong to, since there is ONLY ONE GOD. The key is to understand that we are all human beings and must learn to be humane .We should give each other the space to worship God in our own way. That is what Pluralism is all about. If we are all going to reunite with that Source of all Creations someday, somewhere in the future then we should endevour to be united here , Remember we eventually will all be one with Allah. So the key is to stop fighting with each other and always have GOOD THOUGTS, GOOD WORDS AND GOOD DEEDS in our heart and our thoughts and our mouth . Abdullah Sameer can believe in whatever he chooses to believe in but he must stop desecrating and demeaning Ismailism
I wouldn't call the Nizari Ismailis peaceful. The order of Assassins (Hashashin) was responsible for many deaths from both the Saracen and Crusader armies. They assassinated Conrad of Montferret and attempted to kill many times Saladin.
Ismailis aren't bound to fast in terms of food and drink for the particular month(the can if they want to). But fasting in terms of avoiding excessess, sins, and prohibitions (which other sects try to achieve when they are fasting) is extended for the whole year and not just a month. Thus devoted Ismailis are bound to fast lifetime.
It's wrong to say that Ismaililism is an offshoot of Shia Islam. Because what we know as Shia Islam today, is in fact a later phenomenon than Ismailism. I would say, Shia Islam (The Twelvers) is the development of early Gnostic Islam, which in one stage turned non-Gnostic. Perhaps at the time of Mohammad Sadeiq, Shia Islam's 6th Imam, or even later. If you look at all Shia sects before that time, all are Gnostic.
I was going to say something along this line but less erudite. I think that most of the so-called Islamic offshoots or schismatic sects represent relicts of the various belief systems that were around before Islam was fully codified.
As soon as you leave Islam… you get that typical cult treatment as which we see in Mormonism, and even worse, some want you bad.. as if they have a crush on you, but in a bad way… the standard apostasy penalty that Ali Dawah told in a TH-cam video.
Ismailis give 18% of their total income to Agha Khan's organization. Some of the funds were/are used to relocate many of Ismailis from the third world countries to the US/Canada, and by doing so the organization collects even more money for its followers from the west.
Hahaha nice joke im ismaili why they not move me from 3rd world country Its your misunderstanding let me tell you the reason we are well educated community so we can afford traveling shame on you spreading false news 😠
@@ahsanvideos837 Well, I have heard it from the mouth of many Ismailis in the US and Canada. They said they were moved by the community to these western countries and they were paying one fifth of their income to the community. But regarding to the rumors -- It is a widely believed thing in Central Asia/Afghanistan/Pakistan that Ismailis engage in this practice called "Chiragh Kushi" Two Farsi words, the literal meaning is killing the light. They gather in a big hall or an area with big space, males and females, turn off the lights and engage in a group orgy. In the Farsii speaking world, usually the Ismailis are referred with a nick name "Chiragh Kush" light killers.
@@bactrian1442 Dude, I have heard the same thing sunni saying for shia’s 😂 as an ex ismaili there is nothing of the sort. Even though I am an atheist now, ismailis are extremly well behaved, educated, and ethical indivisuals.
Loved the overview. That quote about not asking certain questions is a great anti-scientific argument. Change it to a snake bite and you'll see the foolishness of it. If a believer of any religion made a similar argument for questions that challenge they're worldview atheists would have a field day.
I think ismaili as imam centered cult sect, is also dangerous if the imam is like khomeini or bin laden (if), khomeini sending million children to war. imam centered cult is way more dangerous. Ismaili also had blood on their history. I think if every muslim like Ismaili as you supposed also not very good.
Guy lol if Aga Khan ever even told Ismailis to look at anyone a certain way, everyone would revolt. War? We'd laugh and the jamat would dissolve. It's difficult to go from "pluralism and meritocracy" to "kill that person".
@@FriendlyExmuslim you missing my point. I mean Imam centered cult tend to listen to their imam, so the group behaviour tend to depend on imam behaviour. It is lucky current Agha Khan is pacifist person, imagine if the imam was Khomeini. History also talks that Previous Agha Khan offered to send troops to help NAZI.
@@thunderbolt7824 Bro the Aga Khan's Father Prince Aly Khan literally commanded the British troops against the Nazi's in France. Look it up, its all on the internet.
_"... but worship his teaching."_ Really? Because that's stupid. It leas to the same problem of rigid, unchangeable interpretations. I was told to question everything. I think it was even a buddhist who told me.
LOL By his laughter and the sincerity he reads quite horrible comments aimed at himself, I think it might be that he just reads aloud what he sees and youtube doesn't agree that that is a good idea :p But I'm just guessing. Basically, this is roughly what I think probably happened or something similarly ridiculous: -Friendly ex-muslim: Hello everyone. -Muslim email response: I wish deadly diseases on you and your family. -Friendly ex-muslim: This muslim says in an email:" I wish deadly diseases on you and your family." -TH-cam: You can't say that. -Friendly ex-muslim: You want me to lie? -TH-cam: that's a strike. Don't do it again, or else.
In conclusion ismaili Muslim are batini Muslim. Other Muslim are zahiri Muslim. You will not understand batini Islam. In batini Islam is what’s inside you. Your physical appearance doesn’t make you muslim. You have to be muslim by heart that’s batini Islam.
So for anyone who saw david wood and daniel debates recently, daniel repeatedly attacking david on how christianity as a religion had multiple branching beliefs and was corrupted due to it having a sect called the word of faith cult and prosperity gospel as their main beliefs and that's actually his que on attacking david to which david could only reply "that I'm not sure" several times, which surprises me someone with that caliber couldn't respond to such crappy statement other than saying I'm not sure, well, for one, word of faith aka prosperity gospel strays far from christianity, it leans more towards the law of attraction instead of the actual gospel teaching, so yeah it's a wolf in sheep's clothing aka false prophet which the Bible clearly warns us to stay away from. So this begs questions, do Ismailism considered a cult or offshoots of islams (which they vehemently denied as if it was a separate religion), and if so, isn't it the same as them pointing a fingers at us as having their own shirk-filled religion cloaked as islam? what do you guys think?
00:35:00 actually you are right ismaelisme is very similar to xxi century catholicisme: one leader, centralised authority focus on good deeds rather than doing the right prayer, no legalisme, free agency, communion built throught the sharing of food. Encouragment to study Differences: Clergy is composed of priest in celibacy / lay couples Leader is elected and can resign / son of Leader isn’t wealthy / owns private island
All these sects also shows the failure of Udaifa's thinking and the reasoning for destroying 6/7 of the ahruf. At least that was Uthman's excuse for destroying the Qur'an. It is very suspicious that he even destroyed the original material of the harf he supposedly agreed with. So we don't know what changes he really made, if they ever really existed. There is now more and more evidence that they are all as fictitious as Ali Baba.
Grew up with an Ahmadiyya in the community group of my family. To his face, they treated him the same, behind his back they said he worshipped at Satan's mosque.
Praying by someone's merit is very popular in Kabbalah for example when one lights a candle at a kabbalist s grave they say the following phrase "by the merit of (insert kabbalist saint) we shall be saved, his merit will protect us" probably borrowed from sufism
AP I want to present you with another possible argument against islam which you could explore further and use in your debates. There is even more evidence that the quran´s author actually thought that Dhul qarnayn had traveled to the places where the sun sets or rises. It is written that he followed another way until he REACHED A PLACE BETWEEN MOUNTAINS. Here he found people who could not understand him. So this means he had travelled very far from home, so far that he was in a different country or region where the people did not speak his language. We can hence assume that he travelled for many days (unless he was using a car or plane lol). So when the quran says that he followed a way until he reached sunset, it means he travelled for many days...which means that there were many sunsets and sunrises as he travelled in that direction. So you can not claim that he simply travelled until the sun set because there were already many sunsets. Instead the quran speaks of a specific sunset, which means that this one was different from the others. Think that´s Because it was believed to be the actual place where the sun sets. Also consider that Dhul qarnayn built a wall between two mountains to keep some people out. On a round earth, you can always walk or swim around a wall between two points. On a flat earth however, if the wall is built between 2 points on the edge of the earth, you would actually be able to trap people behind it with no way out except digging or climbing over. Just more evidence that the quran´s author (s) believed that the earth was flat and the sun revolved around the earth
1:25:55 Yeah, I feel that story (in Islam) sort of gives the impression that you can do the most unspeakable things & Allah will gloss over them, simply bc you sort of had the right intention and/or repented... but this rule doesn't apply to everybody, just to Muslims & slips into over-the-top favoritism, imo... This is not the mindset a proper, *superior* religion should impart - trivialising human life & showing God doesn't give a cap about anyone but his little clique. Dk, it's uncomparable to the previous story from Buddhism... and Buddhism is *much older.* (yet still manages to impart actual timeless wisdom..)
Ismaili believe that every mediator that link human to god is himself is the face of god like hazrat adam nuh moses jesus Muhammad ali shah karim al hussein and his successor forever
Many of them are in a Syrian city called Salamiyah. They are good people and are completely far from the Islamic religion. I mean they have no sunna teachings in their tradition, more peaceful than Islam but they still call them self Muslims maybe cause they believe in Muhammed too .
Islam has so much interpretations, that you really get confused… how can any sect of Islam be correct when Islam is so devised and fragmented? Really confusing for Muslims.
1:09:00 Muslim women aren't allowed to attend the burial/funeral of *their own* family members?! Wtf 😲 including their children, parents, siblings, etc? Whoow, that is really messed up for me. (and another thing I did not know...) Damn
You are a logical man an athiest which believes in reality other than fairytale of religion but why not expand your horizon and take a hit at Christianity as well as some polytheistic religions but I am sure after that you won't be friends with David wood 🤣🤣🤣🤣 still a big fan AP keep spreading knowledge 💯
Up until 27:00 - I really like Ismailism! I didn't know anything about it, really. 🤔 I feel like both this & Sufism, I could see myself joining if I really had to pick something from Islam. 🤷♀️ Bc they're more normal! lol - Great interview👍
I’m an ismaili from gilgit baltistan, I’m not really spiritual but I still consider myself to be part of it because it is intertwined with my culture and I do enjoy the celebrations and festivities that come with it. The reason why people at least where I’m from are so devoted to the aga khan or Ismailism in general is because before the aga khan foundation arrived, my parent and grandparent and great grand parent had nothing, I mean they were in such terrible poverty I can’t even count how many stories my grand parents have told about how touch it was to live in the mountains back then, we didn’t even have hospitals and due to that infant mortality was rampant, in my own family so many children were lost because of the lack of medical services and when the aga khan foundation arrived they built a hospital in our village which saved so many people, they created pipeline systems for drinking water and many other things. I’m glad that I am an ismaili rather than Sunni because the people in my family enjoy the freedoms that other sects do not, there are no women where I’m from who have to wear the burqa or the hijab and my great grandmother hates the concept of both so I just wanted give some extra information about ismailism. sorry about my terrible grammar.
Sounded like the Ismailis were taking a leaf out of Christianity charity ethos
@@amyl2096 Yeah but I don't know where my people would be right now with out The Aga Khan foundation honestly, still probably in deep poverty or wiped out by the Punjabi gov
When you put it like that, it sounds like you were just paying an insurance company - where everyone pays in and people in need get payouts from the overall fund, but the overall administrator gleans off enough profit off the top so that they can live in luxury. I don't see what that has to do with Islam or any religion. Another way of thinking about it is that it just sounds like a charitable organisation - except donations come from followers, rather than the general public. It's just a business model.
Good on you
@@XiagraBalls In a way it is sort of insurance because we are surrounded by Sunni's and a lot of them do not think of us as real Muslims so with out AKDN they would probably try to assimilate us whether we liked it or not. The mentality that they taught us is that there is a balance between the spiritual and material world so that why you have to do good in both which means that most Ismailis do put priority on education. Most people in my family are educated because of this and we don't go around preaching about what other people should do so the business model aspect sort of has it's effects. We are also encouraged to adapt to changes so ismailis who immigrate to other countries rarely try to cause problems.
MxsIims be like:
*AP's cat put its paws on isIxmic books...*
➞ therefore AIIxh cursed AP's cat
➞ the cat then damaged AP's cable
➞ lsIxm is true!!!
Haha
Alhamdulillah
@Sara Michael Ashrafno, but it was really interesting👌🏻I thought that Ismailism differs just a bit from Sunnism, but it's toootally different. Was really surprised!!!
This should be an enjoyable conversation.
Alhamdulillah
I was Ismiling the whole time.
I see what you did there 🤣
😁
Very interesting and educational. Thank you, gentlemen.
Me, grow up on Ashari, read Ahmadiyya text since young, convert into Salafi on High school. Now an Agnostic. Enjoying watching this
@@duckgoat7570 That would be stupid.
Do mainstream Sunnis usually refer to themselves as “Ashari” or think of themselves in those terms?
@@jamesgordley5000 Yes Majority of sunni today is following Ashari-Maturidi School on Creed.
So I’ve heard. However, I was asking whether or not they associate themselves with those terms (Ashari or Maturidi) consciously, or if they simply
follow Sunni Islam as they know it, unconscious of whether they are following according to a particular school of thought. Does a Muslim who folllows according to the Ashari school actually *think of himself as* Ashari?
@@jamesgordley5000 well,on general, sunni is the one who follow sunnah, in opposite to Shia.
But within the school they define differently, i grew on Ashari madrassa, on their lecture they stated that Ahlussunnah Waljamaah (Sunni) is only the one who follow Ashari and Maturidi School on Creed, 4 madzhab on Fiqh, and follow Al Ghazali and Al Baghdadi on Tasawwuf (CMIIW). But i also have longtime on Salafi, they define Sunni as the one who follow Alquran, Sunna, and teaching of 3 generation of Early muslim.
Glad to hear your son is getting better, AP 🙏🙏🙏
And thanks to Abdullah Sameer and AP for this informative presentation.
As an ismaili muslim, i want to say that this discussion, while i dont agree with everything said, was very respectful. Its a lot better than what ive seen other muslims say about our community.
You guys are doing such a great job, a service that is very important. You both have a great contribution since you have come out of the muslim world and know it from the inside. Keep on doing the good work.
I had a good friend in 68 in Islamabad, his name was smiley, very bright and broad minded, I lost touch with him. I wish all muslims were like him.
If there is going to be Islam in the world it's too bad that Ismailism isn't the dominant strain. It does have its drawbacks but compared to other versions it's got a lot going for it
Appreciate it:)
If you belong to a religion or sect that constitutes a minority in a non-democratic country, you will receive a religious education that always encourages tolerance.
Interesting. I used to see the Bohras in Egypt visiting the Ibn Tulun mosque in Cairo, because it still has the old mihrab from the Fatimid dynasty.
Go find a good graveyard
@@hassanjamal4212 seriouly ?
@@quiestwho4363 old mans on his final hours. What else is he meant to be doing. Sign up for gym lessons? 😂
@@hassanjamal4212 please go kneel to peddomuhammad 5 times a day, whilst atheists have fun.
Great stuff AP and Abdullah 😊👍
1:07:35 _"I wish the entire Muslim community was Ismaili."_ - yeah, me too... can you imagine how different the world would look today, on the religious (and social) sphere? Sigh..
تحياتي لك اخي الروحي من مسلم اسماعيلي من دولة سوريا 🇸🇾🇸🇾❤💚
The sarcasm in Ap is on another level!
The Ismaili are where the legend of the old man of the Mountain and the Assassins came from... Fun times.
If you were born in Kenya and are Ismaili, chances are you have a gujrati background. I'll leave it to you to dig into it, but Gujarat was a hotspot for Ismaili's outside of Persia, predating the migration of Ismaili's to East Africa.
Yes
My family is Gujarati
Khoja ... a Hindu Gujarati community that converted to Ismali
Ofc some became
The founder of Pakistan was born ismaili but became a twelver Shia later on
@Abdullah Sameer, this was very informative. Should include the Islamic tree in your presentation to show where the different (major) sects fall under. Should have a discussion with an Ahmadiyah ex-Muslim
Good channel for those who run away from God and religious obligations. The amazing thing with Islam is that, it is replacing the garbage followers with scientists and doctors converts. Alhamdulillah.
Ismailin started at 12th century in Iran Qazvin Alamut mountain and Alamut castle, their leader was Hassan Sabbah and called them Hashishin in kharazm shahian Kingdome, at time of Turkan Hatun and jalaladin Kharazmshahi , they were very powerful and had spies everywhere almost all around mi=ddle east and Asia. that castle destroyed by Teymour Lang.
I am an Ismaili..
Beauty of Ismailism is
1
it's allowed to leave Ismailism but if you want to become Ismaili you will have to study Ismailism first then if you are satisfied you can convert.
2 as far as dasond (zakat) is concern you are free if you want to pay or not ,dasond money is used to run hospital's , community work, Schools etc there are 200 schools running in my country with that money.
3 in Ismailism you can marry anyone you want no prohibition that you can't marry a Christan,Jew or atheist.
4 you can criticize imam nobody will give fatwa to cut the throat 😜
5 it's guidance of imam that if you have a son and a daughter and you afford education of any One of them , educate you daughter first.
6 anybody from any faith or religion Christian,Jew Hindu, atheist can work and head the Aga Khan development network.
Is it a cult I don't think so.
All the foundation are led by the children of the agha khan. It is just to make the family more rich
I agree. One mildly cultish aspect doesn’t make an entire sect a cult.
Good to see you both together
Wait. Worship in mosques is just “Head, Shoulders, Knees & Toes”?
@Jamal Ramadan nice to see some humor on this topic ;-)
Exercise. Guess they at least keep moving. Catholics too. Up down....Up down...silliness.
Ismailis pay 12.5% of their income to Aga Khan? How is that even possible, Ismailis in Tajikistan are so poor.
Two brief things about this - There is no apparatus within the Ismaili board to keep track of who gives what. While 1/8 is the common tithe, you can give however much, whenever you like. I'd wager half the jamat does not meet that number. I certainly don't. No one has ever asked or scorned.
That money is not only use for ismaili s but also the other communities for all humanity
Well the money goes to AKDN, which controls most of the institutes, hospitals , charity and stuff.
It goes to support the western lifestyle of the agha khan and his multiple wives
You probably forgot to say “Inshallah” before pugging the cable back in! That’s why its not working.
wow, sounds like Ismailis generally and especially Ismaili women have it way better.
Indian Ismailis retain their original culture and incorporate Hindu customs in their rituals. They are an asset to society.
Sameer & AP thanks for educating on this beautiful sect of Islam.😊🤠😊
Great to see you two together.
But come on AP don't you know that Abdullah Sameer is 'your friendly Exmuslim'. You can't start telling him to be yet more friendly.
One of the doctors I work with is Ismail , and your absolutely right, she looks normal and acts like an non Muslim.
I went to her house and her entire home was covered with Aga khan photos. Very cult like.
Yep my dad had photos of Aga Khan in every room in the house. Pretty common
@@FriendlyExmuslim so creepy!!!..
Some people have a million posters of a musician, so...
Idk man, I'm Ismaili and have never seen "entire homes covered". People keep photos, yeah, but people keep pictures of Jesus and Ayatollahs and whomever. But there's no such thing as a shrine to Aga Khan for example.
Rita Gameiro, and that is creepy too but there is a difference on the creepiness scale between you liking a musician and a whole family having to like a musician because the head of the household likes them
To be fair, they do believe that the quran isn't timeless... but timebound to that time. Aga Khan is very much a cult leader though
There are a bunch of distinct differences between Aga Khan and a cult leader. A few of them include - no focus on recruitment or indoctrination. No 'us vs them' mentality. No exulting of unethical behaviour (victim complex). No one dictates how a murid should live their lives. No mandate to dedication of ones time. No disparagement of questioning or doubt. No penalty for apostasy. No subservience. No requirement to socialize within the walls.
That's 90% of the list which defines a cult. There are definitely a few things though, an implied devotion to a living leader. The focus on for-profit initiatives. The lack of anyone for Aga Khan to answer to.
Muhammad himself was a cult leader
Naah man. You know nothing then. As an ex ismaili, Now an atheist, I can asure you its not the case.
@@ComboBreakerHDIsmailis sect is a modern version of Islam. Living according to today’s era and there’s an Imam/ leader who is alive and we following his guidance. He’s not prophet nor god just a leader. Who is very goal oriented and serving people in different countries. Lots of charity work and support for the poor. It’s a very progressive community.
As someone has recommended in the live chat, read Old path White Clouds by Thich Nhat Hanh and Dhammapada, the latter is short. Shanthideva is not bad too even though it comes from a 'new' tradition. Buddhism does not proselytise. It is not a religion or a faith. Just practice if you like, before that one has to use his/her reasoning to understand it, like the parable of the poisoned arrow. It is not a dogma, but self realisation, self understanding, without hate, anger, violence, prejudice, but with love, kindness,, compassion and mercy. Santhideva highlight all of them as you have read him.
Looking up the blood thirsty Ismaili assasins history is pretty interesting. They tried messing with the Mongols and lost horribly bad though lol. It wasn't even a competition
32:15 The Ismailis *ruled* the Muslim world? Wow, I never knew about this. And I see a pic of the Fatimid Dynasty - the Fatimids were Ismailis? Really low-key information today.. 🤔
It was fun learning something new! This was really fascinating. I really enjoyed the presentation and hearing both of your thoughts!
Fuck ☪️
th-cam.com/video/2EX146ZXJMUn/w-d-xo.htmlfjdjk
Thanks Sara!
Also when muslims and Hindus clashed on a large scale the Muslims got the best of hindus. That is why there are so many Muslims in India. That is why Pakistan exists lol.
I can't stand Islam, but even I can see that Islam will end up replacing Hinduism in India in the future lol. It's a matter of fact
Doudi Boharas are also considered peaceful people in India who are very much in business and well educated.
I joked about the intro I really enjoyed the conversation today although I wasn't able to fully comment I hope everyone is doing well be blessed ✨🙏🏽❤️
What does fully comment mean? Has the language evolved?
@pascal wager I was about to comment something about the video but I forget it and ending up making a joke about the intro
@@pascalwager4544 it's not a new language
Very excited for this, Ismailis are so intriguing. The stuff they believe about their leader is what people THINK Catholics believe about the pope
"The stuff they believe about their leader is what people THINK Catholics believe about the pope"
This just what EVERY religion says about other religions, to help them feel like "MY religion is really special and unique, and people only THINK it relies on the exact same fallacious logic as all those other religions... But really, mine is the ONE religion that's super-duper-reasonable, and has great evidence!!!" Ismalis, Sufis, Shi'ites, Sunni, Baptists, Mormons, Jews, Scientologists- they ALL have other "lesser" religions they point at, and tell themselves "Wow!! That's just like what people THINK my religion is like..." with the unspoken implication of "...but REALLY my religion is waaaay more sensible than all that silly nonsense."
Thinking your religion is special, and different to all the others, and mis-understood, and that if people REALLY understood your religion, they'd see it all makes perfect sense, are all the traits that make your religion EXACTLY the same as every single other religion in the world...
@@baconsarny-geddon8298 you’re really narrow minded, he didn’t talk about the religion as a whole but just what people believe the relation between the pope and the catholic community is. You’re throwing a tantrum like a baby.
@@baconsarny-geddon8298 What you are saying probably has a technical term, but I don't know it. So, I will just call it an over generalisation. There are certain specific, objective facts that make different religions unique. These can be pointed out and discussed without this being
_traits that make your religion EXACTLY the same as every single other religion in the world._
All religions are not the same, there are fundamental differences. Roman Catholicism has some very unique features, whereas you would be hard-pressed to find any major differences between Baptists, Methodists or Anglicans. There are ver fundamental differences between Islam, Christianity, Hinduism and Buddhism, there is also such a thing as evidence. Some religions can stand on a historical beginning others have no historical grounding. These can be proven by anyone being objective in their research.
In conclusion, you have overgeneralised differences being mentioned and falsely asserted that all religions are "exactly" the same.
Well, to me any of these religions are ridicolus. Im a lutheran Christian myself (on paper). We dont have any leader with a ''pointy hat'' or infinite wisdom or... what ever.
I think lutheran christianity is most relaxed religion on earth. You have 0 obligation to do anything and i have witnessed 0 lutherans trying to convert someone.
@@rockmcdwayne1710 Being inoffensive & poor evangelizers isn't a sign you have the fullness of truth.
Wonderful collaboration, as always! It seems as if Ismailism is like the Shia equivalent of Sufism.
Seriously though, Ismailism seems like the Islamic version of some hippy non-denominational church that wants to be some chill well liked social club, versus a religion
Uh... Yeah, they still believe in Jihad against non-believers.
Coming from a ex ismali who’s an agnostic it pretty much is I went from Ismaili to Sunni then agnostic the whole religion is just a cult
@@gatocles99 there's no jihad in Ismailism wtf are you smoking
@@FriendlyExmuslim I am smoking Recorded History. The "Assassins" were Ismaili. The Ismaili, like all Shia have a long history of Jihad not only against non-Muslims, but against other Muslims, Shia and Sunni alike.... since Islam is like Highlander, "there can only be one".
Sorry, but you didn't learn much about Ismailism. You got the nice surface teachings for suckers.
Like the Ahmadiyya, the Ismaili also falsely claim that Jihad is not pare of "real" Islam. They deliberately cause confusion and sabotage efforts to deal with Jihad terrorism that is fundamental to Islam.
It is what it is.
Does India's Aga Khan Trust which is into restoration of old monuments a product of ismailism? 😳
Something good from this sect then.
yes😄
I love AP's reactions to these points, even as an ex-Muslim, he's reacting as if "yeah these people ain't muslim" xD
Ur mums in the hellfire and grandparents
Ap don't hate muslims, he hates certain ideology of islam, but ismailism sect is different in many ways. A progressive sect.
@@funlife3484 I guess I'm a little more surprised that he was unfamiliar with much of this stuff. Shows how few people know what happens within the sect despite its broad representation in progressive society.
@Jamal Ramadan lol OK jus cos its nor real for you, it don't mean it's not real
Here from the future, the debate happened a few days ago, it went exactly as expected.
That godly intro track tho, full version pls.
There are a bunch of distinct differences between Aga Khan and a cult leader. A few of them include - no focus on recruitment or indoctrination. No 'us vs them' mentality. No exulting of unethical behaviour (victim complex). No one dictates how a murid should live their lives. No mandate to dedication of ones time. No disparagement of questioning or doubt. No penalty for apostasy. No subservience (no one puts the faith before family). No requirement to socialize only within the walls.
That's 90% of the list which defines a cult. There are definitely a few things though, an implied devotion to a living leader. The focus on for-profit initiatives. The lack of anyone for Aga Khan to answer to.
You're right. This won't fit as a cult under the BITE model
Fair points.
Hard disagree. There is no focus on recruitment, because there is already a large membership and additional scrutiny is unwelcome. However there is a lot of indoctrination. BUI/REC gets the young kids, al-Ummah for teenagers, STEP for young adults, IIS for putting out propaganda for outsiders. The Us vs Them mentality is subtle, but still there and the victim complex is definitely a big part - that is how taqiyya is justified. Ismailis claim to be persecuted, and this is how Aga Khan's silence and secrecy is justified. How a murid should live is dictated, to a lesser extent, but it is still there. Older firmans go into the dictates much more. Dedication of ones time is also emphasized, from Time and Tnowledge Nazrana to Ismaili Volunteer Corp (whose motto is Work, No Words). There is lipservice paid to intellect and questioning but in practice questioning and doubt is disparaged - just look at Ismaili constitution prohibiting any criticism. Faith before family is also practiced - talk to some exismailis.
All of this ignores the more fundamental cult characteristics - a leader considered a Avatar of God, the focus on money, extreme secrecy, esoteric truths, progression to higher levels of understanding (bol - ism-e-azam), etc.
Looking at list of characteristics associated with cultic groups, by the International Cultic Studies Association - no doubt Ismailism scores highly on the cult scale.
@@necspenecmetu3 there's only one problem with this though, exactly none of it is enforced. These programmes, what you call indoctrination, exist because the board is sophisticated. But it's certainly no madrassa. You go if you want, it is absolutely not a requirement.
Even through waez - direct messages from aga khan - there is no emphasis on actionable behaviour. The messages of pluralism and meritocracy are not actionable. Therefore there is no directive on how to live by action. Mere reminders to be tolerant and accepting of foreign ideas is a harmless ethos.
Volunteering, same thing. Encouraged but not mandatory. Don't see the problem here.
Criticism, of course it's discouraged, but again there is zero enforcement. You will not get in trouble for going to mukhi or objecting at BUI on the validity of a murids role to the ummah.
Again though all of what makes a cult implies that insubordination merits a response from the jamat. As an Ismaili I can tell you with absolute certainty that there is no apparatus to keep these blinders on murids.
And this is why I bring up subservience. In any other cult, the idea that a child commits an act of say, apostasy, is met with a response from the board. Not in Ismailiism. There are plenty of murids with flimsy devotion to faith walking our halls. There is plenty of free expression and gender non-conformity, none of it is met with backlash from family or the jamat. I don't know a single Ismaili whose had go choose, support their child or the ummah, that's just not a choice being made.
I know there are some sour ex-Ismailis but I would posit that their gripes are more the result of the culture they exist in rather than the faith itself. Being that, again, there is no apparatus to punish anyone for anything, it's difficult to argue that whatever they've faced came because the board or jamat made it so.
Alright actually, lets put all this aside for one sec, I have a question which is fundamental to what defines a cult. Can something be a cult, if someone cannot be kicked out or excommunicated from it?
Are Bohras Ismaili? They are very rich traders as far as I know.
Yes. Very different branch though
@@FriendlyExmuslim Thank you. I met them when I visited Sri Lanka to learn Buddhism. In fact they are not only very rich traders but also well educated, and some are professionals in medicine and engineering. At the same time I also met a similar group of people, Parsis [not Muslims but Zoroastrians], filthy rich, well educated, high end professional how lived in their own enclosed areas
Thank you for this video
The black stone thing shows that Allah preferred the polytheists and protected the black stone when in the hands of the pagans but allowed it to be stolen and held to ransom when it was in the hands of the Muslims.
Different strokes for different folks.
Ismailis believe in Pluralism. That means that we believe that all religions are good. No religion preaches evil. All religions lead us to Allah. The Aga Khan is not Allah but a spiritual leader of the Ismaili community. What Abdullah Sameer is talking about is the rituals in Ismailism. But then every religion , or branch of it or a sect of it has some different ritual and ways of practicing their faith. So what ?
As I said different strokes for different folks. Eventually, after our death we end up to reunite with Allah'. So whether a person is a Muslim, a Christian. a Jew, a Hindu, a Buddhist or any other religion, your soul reunites with the Source of all Creations who we call Allah in Ismailism. Allah is known by many names depending on the religion you belong to, since there is ONLY ONE GOD. The key is to understand that we are all human beings and must learn to be humane .We should give each other the space to worship God in our own way. That is what Pluralism is all about. If we are all going to reunite with that Source of all Creations someday, somewhere in the future then we should endevour to be united here , Remember we eventually will all be one with Allah. So the key is to stop fighting with each other and always have GOOD THOUGTS, GOOD WORDS AND GOOD DEEDS in our heart and our thoughts and our mouth . Abdullah Sameer can believe in whatever he chooses to believe in but he must stop desecrating and demeaning Ismailism
LEGENDS NEVER DIE
I wouldn't call the Nizari Ismailis peaceful. The order of Assassins (Hashashin) was responsible for many deaths from both the Saracen and Crusader armies. They assassinated Conrad of Montferret and attempted to kill many times Saladin.
its so ironic that ilsamic ads play before your vids XD
Ismailis aren't bound to fast in terms of food and drink for the particular month(the can if they want to). But fasting in terms of avoiding excessess, sins, and prohibitions (which other sects try to achieve when they are fasting) is extended for the whole year and not just a month. Thus devoted Ismailis are bound to fast lifetime.
I feel better informed about Ismali Muslims for watching your presentation.
It's wrong to say that Ismaililism is an offshoot of Shia Islam. Because what we know as Shia Islam today, is in fact a later phenomenon than Ismailism. I would say, Shia Islam (The Twelvers) is the development of early Gnostic Islam, which in one stage turned non-Gnostic. Perhaps at the time of Mohammad Sadeiq, Shia Islam's 6th Imam, or even later. If you look at all Shia sects before that time, all are Gnostic.
I was going to say something along this line but less erudite. I think that most of the so-called Islamic offshoots or schismatic sects represent relicts of the various belief systems that were around before Islam was fully codified.
6:38 - So, A. Sameer was first Smiley, and then became Sunny. :-)
As soon as you leave Islam… you get that typical cult treatment as which we see in Mormonism, and even worse, some want you bad.. as if they have a crush on you, but in a bad way… the standard apostasy penalty that Ali Dawah told in a TH-cam video.
13:00 Probl in practice, most people align themselves with the scholar that fits *their own* personal beliefs, better. 🤷♀️ Naturally...
The jinn and Angel Gabriel plotted against your camera. Be careful next time.
Kannst du bitte Videos auf Deutsch produzieren, wir möchten mit deinen Erkenntnissen Muslime konfrontieren.
Grüße aus Berlin
Ismailis give 18% of their total income to Agha Khan's organization. Some of the funds were/are used to relocate many of Ismailis from the third world countries to the US/Canada, and by doing so the organization collects even more money for its followers from the west.
Great business model.
Hahaha nice joke im ismaili why they not move me from 3rd world country
Its your misunderstanding let me tell you the reason we are well educated community so we can afford traveling shame on you spreading false news 😠
@@ahsanvideos837 Well, I have heard it from the mouth of many Ismailis in the US and Canada. They said they were moved by the community to these western countries and they were paying one fifth of their income to the community. But regarding to the rumors -- It is a widely believed thing in Central Asia/Afghanistan/Pakistan that Ismailis engage in this practice called "Chiragh Kushi" Two Farsi words, the literal meaning is killing the light. They gather in a big hall or an area with big space, males and females, turn off the lights and engage in a group orgy. In the Farsii speaking world, usually the Ismailis are referred with a nick name "Chiragh Kush" light killers.
@@bactrian1442 Dude, I have heard the same thing sunni saying for shia’s 😂 as an ex ismaili there is nothing of the sort. Even though I am an atheist now, ismailis are extremly well behaved, educated, and ethical indivisuals.
Loved the overview. That quote about not asking certain questions is a great anti-scientific argument. Change it to a snake bite and you'll see the foolishness of it. If a believer of any religion made a similar argument for questions that challenge they're worldview atheists would have a field day.
This was great! Thank you AP and Abdullah! :-)
If Ismailis help each other they should've helped the Pamiris they are very very poor.
He is helping brother
*Ever wondered why Almighty, all knowing alla didn't know the existence of Buddhism, Hinduism, the largest religions during Mohammad's revelations??.*
Please explain what you are asking.
Allah does not know what exist outside arabia
I think ismaili as imam centered cult sect, is also dangerous if the imam is like khomeini or bin laden (if), khomeini sending million children to war. imam centered cult is way more dangerous. Ismaili also had blood on their history. I think if every muslim like Ismaili as you supposed also not very good.
Guy lol if Aga Khan ever even told Ismailis to look at anyone a certain way, everyone would revolt. War? We'd laugh and the jamat would dissolve. It's difficult to go from "pluralism and meritocracy" to "kill that person".
No, it's not dangerous at all. Aga Khan doesn't send people into war.
@@FriendlyExmuslim you missing my point. I mean Imam centered cult tend to listen to their imam, so the group behaviour tend to depend on imam behaviour. It is lucky current Agha Khan is pacifist person, imagine if the imam was Khomeini. History also talks that Previous Agha Khan offered to send troops to help NAZI.
@@ComboBreakerHD did you read the history. Read the Qaramitha people. Lol.
@@thunderbolt7824 Bro the Aga Khan's Father Prince Aly Khan literally commanded the British troops against the Nazi's in France. Look it up, its all on the internet.
it looks like a softer warmer version of the real thing. even parts of alligator's skin are soft.
Ismailis r more civilized than other sects
THANK YOU GUYS.
Abdullah Sameer is rare breed of muslim , he is actually a kind human being
Ps: by muslim I mean born muslim
Shakyamuni Buddha explicitly stated not to worship him but worship his teaching.
Yes as it is not a religion, his is not god or an avatar of a Hindu god. Most importantly just practice his Dhamma and experience the outcome.
_"... but worship his teaching."_
Really? Because that's stupid. It leas to the same problem of rigid, unchangeable interpretations. I was told to question everything. I think it was even a buddhist who told me.
You can bring an animal near to water but you can't force them to drink it.
For people who don't know. Why did you get 2 strikes from TH-cam, Friendly ExMuslim?
LOL By his laughter and the sincerity he reads quite horrible comments aimed at himself, I think it might be that he just reads aloud what he sees and youtube doesn't agree that that is a good idea :p But I'm just guessing.
Basically, this is roughly what I think probably happened or something similarly ridiculous:
-Friendly ex-muslim: Hello everyone.
-Muslim email response: I wish deadly diseases on you and your family.
-Friendly ex-muslim: This muslim says in an email:" I wish deadly diseases on you and your family."
-TH-cam: You can't say that.
-Friendly ex-muslim: You want me to lie?
-TH-cam: that's a strike. Don't do it again, or else.
@@stylis666 thanks for your answer! Sad to hear this
45:40 Not worship, but highly venerate him (like he was a prophet or something). And I think that's already blasphemy in mainstream Islam.. 🤭
In conclusion ismaili Muslim are batini Muslim.
Other Muslim are zahiri Muslim. You will not understand batini Islam. In batini Islam is what’s inside you. Your physical appearance doesn’t make you muslim. You have to be muslim by heart that’s batini Islam.
What is the name of that nasheed humming song that you put in the beginning of the live AP? This is my most favorite of all the Arab humming nasheed.
So for anyone who saw david wood and daniel debates recently, daniel repeatedly attacking david on how christianity as a religion had multiple branching beliefs and was corrupted due to it having a sect called the word of faith cult and prosperity gospel as their main beliefs and that's actually his que on attacking david to which david could only reply "that I'm not sure" several times, which surprises me someone with that caliber couldn't respond to such crappy statement other than saying I'm not sure, well, for one, word of faith aka prosperity gospel strays far from christianity, it leans more towards the law of attraction instead of the actual gospel teaching, so yeah it's a wolf in sheep's clothing aka false prophet which the Bible clearly warns us to stay away from. So this begs questions, do Ismailism considered a cult or offshoots of islams (which they vehemently denied as if it was a separate religion), and if so, isn't it the same as them pointing a fingers at us as having their own shirk-filled religion cloaked as islam? what do you guys think?
00:35:00 actually you are right ismaelisme is very similar to xxi century catholicisme: one leader, centralised authority focus on good deeds rather than doing the right prayer, no legalisme, free agency, communion built throught the sharing of food.
Encouragment to study
Differences:
Clergy is composed of priest in celibacy / lay couples
Leader is elected and can resign / son of
Leader isn’t wealthy / owns private island
Awesome video!👏
Sufism is come from ismailism the true descendent of prophet still having true imam of the world if any one believes or npt it doesn't matter
All these sects also shows the failure of Udaifa's thinking and the reasoning for destroying 6/7 of the ahruf. At least that was Uthman's excuse for destroying the Qur'an. It is very suspicious that he even destroyed the original material of the harf he supposedly agreed with. So we don't know what changes he really made, if they ever really existed. There is now more and more evidence that they are all as fictitious as Ali Baba.
Love the beats
Grew up with an Ahmadiyya in the community group of my family. To his face, they treated him the same, behind his back they said he worshipped at Satan's mosque.
Praying by someone's merit is very popular in Kabbalah for example when one lights a candle at a kabbalist s grave they say the following phrase "by the merit of (insert kabbalist saint) we shall be saved, his merit will protect us" probably borrowed from sufism
AP I want to present you with another possible argument against islam which you could explore further and use in your debates.
There is even more evidence that the quran´s author actually thought that Dhul qarnayn had traveled to the places
where the sun sets or rises. It is written that he followed another way until he REACHED A PLACE BETWEEN MOUNTAINS. Here he found people who could not understand him. So this means he had travelled very far from home, so far that he was in a different country or region where the people did not speak his language. We can hence assume that he travelled for many days (unless he was using a car or plane lol). So when the quran says that he followed a way until he reached sunset, it means he travelled for many days...which means that there were many sunsets and sunrises as he travelled in that direction. So you can not claim that he simply travelled until the sun set because there were already many sunsets. Instead the quran speaks of a specific sunset, which means that this one was different from the others. Think that´s Because it was believed to be the actual place where the sun sets. Also consider that Dhul qarnayn built a wall between two mountains to keep some people out. On a round earth, you can always walk or swim around a wall between two points. On a flat earth however, if the wall is built between 2 points on the edge of the earth, you would actually be able to trap people behind it with no way out except digging or climbing over. Just more evidence that the quran´s
author (s) believed that the earth was flat and the sun revolved around the earth
Nice to see both of you at a social meeting. You are ”heroes”? For many You are….. I believe… Think… estimate… Ali Dawah can be a nice thing…. ?!?!?
Great show 👍👍
AP, had you placed a Quran on your camera, then it would still be working.
Aga Khan abandoned Ismailis in Syria and Afghanistan....
for those who have strikes, it might better for you to also move to rumble @Apostate Prophet.
And that silly cat, reduce the food so he/she can learn.
1:25:55 Yeah, I feel that story (in Islam) sort of gives the impression that you can do the most unspeakable things & Allah will gloss over them, simply bc you sort of had the right intention and/or repented... but this rule doesn't apply to everybody, just to Muslims & slips into over-the-top favoritism, imo...
This is not the mindset a proper, *superior* religion should impart - trivialising human life & showing God doesn't give a cap about anyone but his little clique. Dk, it's uncomparable to the previous story from Buddhism... and Buddhism is *much older.* (yet still manages to impart actual timeless wisdom..)
46:11 So, Quin Elizabeth of Britain is a Hajieh, after meeting Agha Khan!
Ismaili believe that every mediator that link human to god is himself is the face of god like hazrat adam nuh moses jesus Muhammad ali shah karim al hussein and his successor forever
Essence of islam: peace and pleasure are haram,
"There's a sucker born every minute" as the saying goes.
Fuxk ☪️
th-cam.com/video/2EX146ZXJMUn/w-d-xo.htmldnd
I think mostly Muslim scientist belong to batiniya Ismaili.
Many of them are in a Syrian city called Salamiyah. They are good people and are completely far from the Islamic religion. I mean they have no sunna teachings in their tradition, more peaceful than Islam but they still call them self Muslims maybe cause they believe in Muhammed too .
Islam has so much interpretations, that you really get confused… how can any sect of Islam be correct when Islam is so devised and fragmented? Really confusing for Muslims.
1:09:00 Muslim women aren't allowed to attend the burial/funeral of *their own* family members?! Wtf 😲 including their children, parents, siblings, etc?
Whoow, that is really messed up for me. (and another thing I did not know...) Damn
You are a logical man an athiest which believes in reality other than fairytale of religion but why not expand your horizon and take a hit at Christianity as well as some polytheistic religions but I am sure after that you won't be friends with David wood 🤣🤣🤣🤣 still a big fan AP keep spreading knowledge 💯
Up until 27:00 - I really like Ismailism! I didn't know anything about it, really. 🤔
I feel like both this & Sufism, I could see myself joining if I really had to pick something from Islam. 🤷♀️ Bc they're more normal! lol - Great interview👍
I can reach out if you have any questions
Sufi is also part of ismailism
Shams tabrizi teacher of moulana rumi was son of ismaili imam
This Sufis and Ismaili and Rafidi are people of desires & innovation