Seth from Seattle showed up in episodes 834 and 837 peddling weak presuppositional arguments. In his first appearance he was stumped by Lynnea Glasser and called back in 837 to try to refute her. Then in episode 839 he ran into Matt, who talked him around until Seth was saying that slavery was moral. Then he went away for a long time, and when he reappeared in this episode, he really did not want to talk to Matt anymore.
That was a brilliant demolition job by Matt the way he turned the tables on him with a question over certainty into an admission of circular justification. Seth should have called when Don and John are on. I'm surprised that Matt allowed that - callers cannot dictate who they talk to.
Seth was so damn scared to talk with Matt because he knew Matt would eat him alive and spit out his bones. So of course Matt made him look like the damn fool he is.
If you can't comprehend the difference between having a pet and owning another human being, there's something wrong with your epistemology. I take care of my dog and we have a relationship; he's dependent on me and I'm dependent on him. I don't torture him or force him to spend hours toiling in labor or keep him in poor conditions.
Matt ripped him a new one an episode or 2 earlier so he calls don so he can trap him. He asks questions and when don replies correctly, he frames it differently to make don run out of ways to say things. He asked the same question. Don responded 2 or 3 ways, finally Seth asked again and don said i don't know. But it wasnt "I don't know, "it was "since you don't understand English, I don't know what answer you want to hear". That's what Don's 'i don't know " meant. Trap set and Seth says, "ha, you don't know???ha ha". That's what weak people do. I would say weak debater but Seth can't debate. Seth is one of those fucking idiot Christians that think atheists base everything on "feel". His last call too, he says I may FEEL like killing is ok. As if I may feel there is no god. So many Christians have that idea.
@@bobobo2224 Perfect summation. Don’s “I don’t know” really meant, “I’ve already answered that question. I don’t know how to answer it differently so you will understand.”
Seth is a good demonstration that apologetics only sound good when the apologist asks the questions, controls the conversation, and you follow their script.
I think the caller, Seth, forgot that he doesn't run the show and can't dictate who he can "only" speak to (Don). Matt straightened his ass out eventually. I would rate this episode a B+. Thanks again for posting the archived videos.
15:50 Mike (NY) A? Slavery, faith. 21:26 Seth (ID) Moral standards of atheists; owning animals; laws; would prefer to talk with Don. 53:20 Brittany (PA) Teetering theist seeking references.
Don knew what this guy was doing, and knock down arguments are not his style Matt likes to spare with people, it's not a flaw in Don's character that he chooses not to engage with close minded irrational people
trahapace150 He also was basically laughing at to “if I keep asking, it means you haven’t answered”. This is a GOTCHA call and some people react by shutting it up and some, like Don, they laugh it off. Disingenuous behavior doesn’t warrant reward.
Easy answer fir Seth (which he'd no doubt ignore). If a society institutes and accepts a policy which is deleterious, it is less likely to remain stable and survive. This is less desirable. In the universe at large, ONLY the societies which base overall policies on "wellbeing" can endure.
The dirty little secret about christian morality that Matt always points out is that all the problems it claims atheistic morality has it has no solution for. You realize this if you just quit parroting your favorite apologist and think about it longer than 10 seconds.
My favorite is "slavery was normal back then and God knew they wouldn't stop so he gave them guidelines to at least make it better." so stupid. Murder and stealing was much more prevelant back then. People were still going to do it. Yet God was able to say that's wrong. Do you know what I would expect to see if the Bible was written by humans who were pretending to be God? I would see things that at the time were considered morally correct that clearly were not moral by today's standards being allowed because the humans that were writing it pretending to be God thought it was okay wear as a true loving caring God would have known back then that slavery was wrong. So what I would expect to see from a real God is him informing the people that even though slavery is normal to them it is in fact the wrong and thou shalt not own people as property. But that's not what we see. We see a so-called loving God giving rules on exactly how to own people as property and while I can't prove it, it sure as hell makes a lot of sense why God approves of slavery in the Bible if in fact humans pretending to be God wrote it
Garden of Eden makes no sense because it is a telephone-game translation of a translation of an allegory that was told far before the bible was ever patched together
Seth has a typical Christian misunderstanding (deliberate or otherwise?) of 'survival of the fittest'. Fittest here doesn't mean 'strongest', it means best suited or 'best adapted to their environment'. In Darwin's day there weren't fitness clubs. 'Fit' had the meaning we still have today of 'fit'for purpose'.
Seth ..... One animal eating another animal has noting at all to do with slavery . It has to do with survival , this is how nature works plain and simple . Slavery is the owning of other people and forcing them to spend their lives as being the property of someone else . Without any say in the matter . Lions do not do this to any other animals . They eat them like you eat chicken to survival . Your analogy is ill thought out .
Matt exposed the single most important point in all of theology, that being, if we ourselves are not omniscient then we could never know anything for certain. Which is why that, even if there were a God, it would be impossible for us to determine if it were a good God or an evil God. This being could just cloud our minds to make us think what it wants us to think. Which reminds me of the old radio play "The Shadow". "The shadow knows", but, you will never no for certain, because you don't have the power to cloud men's minds like the Shadow.
Not his fault. You need to be prepared to deal with a presup question and answer approach and he was not prepared which Seth guessed which is why he chose Don. Matt should not have allowed that to happen and well before he saw Don floundering he should have stepped in.
Seth does not get it. Humans learned thousands of years ago that life is far better when we band together & cooperate with each other. No God required to figure this out.
He wasn’t even really appealing to a god. He just saw Don as a weaker mark, and he could get some sound bite with him looking like the winner... and he was, pretty much.. until Matt jumped in with his argument skills.
@@barkYdarkATFB Ultimately you can't know what a person is thinking, all you can ever do is analyse their words & actions. Of course for some it's just verbal combat, they're focused entirely on scoring points and not on learning anything new.
Seth thinks having a pet is like owning a human?? Last time I checked, people who have pets don’t beat them and are allowed to do that without punishment from the law lol.
If the god of the bible had been portrayed as a king instead of a God , he would be remembered as the most evil, mass murdering, tyrannical dictator of all time! Christians give the bible god a free pass because, they say, he is god the creator. I don't see the difference whether man or god. If his actions were evil or immoral, as the bible states, then he'd be just as guilty of being evil as any human committing the same deeds.
Because he stayed true to himself and Seth didn’t deserve one ounce of Don to talk to him. Some people are smart with their actions and not engaging showed Don was much more intelligent than asshole Seth!!!
Because don is not a combative debater once he knew this guy was just trying to goad him and just restate the same thing a thousand times. Matt likes to fight that's his style, it's not a flaw in Don's character to not want to get into a knock down drag out debate with an irrational caller
Don is good with rebutting many theist positions - but good atheist debaters have been flustered by the presup position when aggressively presented question and answer checkmate style. Matt is a few levels above Don but he is exceptional so the right person to deal with Seth.
Seth from Seattle showed up in episodes 834 and 837 peddling weak presuppositional arguments. In his first appearance he was stumped by Lynnea Glasser and called back in 837 to try to refute her. Then in episode 839 he ran into Matt, who talked him around until Seth was saying that slavery was moral. Then he went away for a long time, and when he reappeared in this episode, he really did not want to talk to Matt anymore.
That was a brilliant demolition job by Matt the way he turned the tables on him with a question over certainty into an admission of circular justification. Seth should have called when Don and John are on. I'm surprised that Matt allowed that - callers cannot dictate who they talk to.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.”
- Bertrand Russell
Seth was so damn scared to talk with Matt because he knew Matt would eat him alive and spit out his bones. So of course Matt made him look like the damn fool he is.
That's a pretty good summation of what happened to Seth during his previous call-in (episode 839).
If you can't comprehend the difference between having a pet and owning another human being, there's something wrong with your epistemology. I take care of my dog and we have a relationship; he's dependent on me and I'm dependent on him. I don't torture him or force him to spend hours toiling in labor or keep him in poor conditions.
Seth is scared to death to debate with Matt, because he knows Matt would tear him a new one.
Seth is attempting to justify his propensity towards racism.
@@spacewizard69 he sounds like he has a really punchable throat.
Matt ripped him a new one an episode or 2 earlier so he calls don so he can trap him. He asks questions and when don replies correctly, he frames it differently to make don run out of ways to say things.
He asked the same question. Don responded 2 or 3 ways, finally Seth asked again and don said i don't know. But it wasnt "I don't know, "it was "since you don't understand English, I don't know what answer you want to hear". That's what Don's 'i don't know " meant. Trap set and Seth says, "ha, you don't know???ha ha".
That's what weak people do. I would say weak debater but Seth can't debate.
Seth is one of those fucking idiot Christians that think atheists base everything on "feel". His last call too, he says I may FEEL like killing is ok. As if I may feel there is no god. So many Christians have that idea.
@@bobobo2224 Perfect summation. Don’s “I don’t know” really meant, “I’ve already answered that question. I don’t know how to answer it differently so you will understand.”
Seth is a good demonstration that apologetics only sound good when the apologist asks the questions, controls the conversation, and you follow their script.
The only thing Seth managed to prove definitively was that he is obnoxiously smug and incapable of listening or presenting a logical argument.
I think the caller, Seth, forgot that he doesn't run the show and can't dictate who he can "only" speak to (Don). Matt straightened his ass out eventually. I would rate this episode a B+. Thanks again for posting the archived videos.
This episode is a good illustration of why Matt is so important to the program. No offence to Don.
~ These archived videos are pure gold in 2019, and still just as fresh and relevant. Thank you, Matt and Don. Cheers, DAVEDJ ~
15:50 Mike (NY) A? Slavery, faith.
21:26 Seth (ID) Moral standards of atheists; owning animals; laws; would prefer to talk with Don.
53:20 Brittany (PA) Teetering theist seeking references.
I feel like Don should have been better at this considering how many times he's sat next to Matt having this exact conversation.
Don knew what this guy was doing, and knock down arguments are not his style Matt likes to spare with people, it's not a flaw in Don's character that he chooses not to engage with close minded irrational people
trahapace150 He also was basically laughing at to “if I keep asking, it means you haven’t answered”. This is a GOTCHA call and some people react by shutting it up and some, like Don, they laugh it off. Disingenuous behavior doesn’t warrant reward.
Don's a lovely guy, but he is not strong at debate.
@TREX LEX His style is not in question. It's his inability to construct a strong argument that is..
Should have been stopped from the off....its not "The Don Experience"
"... not trying to be passive-aggressive...." my ass!!! Seth was being the definition of passive-aggressive.
i find it funny that people who think slavery is ok, has never been a slave. also why did those slaves in america try to run and get freedom
Easy answer fir Seth (which he'd no doubt ignore).
If a society institutes and accepts a policy which is deleterious, it is less likely to remain stable and survive. This is less desirable. In the universe at large, ONLY the societies which base overall policies on "wellbeing" can endure.
Oh yes just seen the end of the call from Seth lol Matt eventually got him by the balls then wrapped that call up nicely loved it!
I suspect Seth was humiliated by his performance on the previous occasion he spoke to Matt (episode 839).
Seth reminds me of Eric from Arizona
The dirty little secret about christian morality that Matt always points out is that all the problems it claims atheistic morality has it has no solution for. You realize this if you just quit parroting your favorite apologist and think about it longer than 10 seconds.
My favorite is "slavery was normal back then and God knew they wouldn't stop so he gave them guidelines to at least make it better." so stupid. Murder and stealing was much more prevelant back then. People were still going to do it. Yet God was able to say that's wrong. Do you know what I would expect to see if the Bible was written by humans who were pretending to be God? I would see things that at the time were considered morally correct that clearly were not moral by today's standards being allowed because the humans that were writing it pretending to be God thought it was okay wear as a true loving caring God would have known back then that slavery was wrong. So what I would expect to see from a real God is him informing the people that even though slavery is normal to them it is in fact the wrong and thou shalt not own people as property. But that's not what we see. We see a so-called loving God giving rules on exactly how to own people as property and while I can't prove it, it sure as hell makes a lot of sense why God approves of slavery in the Bible if in fact humans pretending to be God wrote it
No wonder why Seth didn't want to talk to Matt
50:50 Aaaaaaand we finally end up with "Because no other position makes sense." Argument from personal incredulity?
argumentum ad Seth is a dumbass fallacy.
Garden of Eden makes no sense because it is a telephone-game translation of a translation of an allegory that was told far before the bible was ever patched together
Really pathetic, such a coward in his argumentation.
I hate people that try to debate like this. You both were doing good, he just thought he could push Don around.
A bully will also pick on the weakest victim
Seth has a typical Christian misunderstanding (deliberate or otherwise?) of 'survival of the fittest'. Fittest here doesn't mean 'strongest', it means best suited or 'best adapted to their environment'. In Darwin's day there weren't fitness clubs. 'Fit' had the meaning we still have today of 'fit'for purpose'.
Don is interested in honest conversation. There is the problem.
Dudes been listening to too much Sye, the KING of dispshit thinking
Psycho 10 Fruitcake
I wonder how Seth managed to live so long
I'm fired ? I want to talk to Don about it !
if a god created man and he knew we were not going be perfect like he is, he can not fault us for being what he created
Listening to Seth is like chewing on aluminum foil.
It makes me grimace just to think of that, but it is a perfect analogy. so, amen!
Stimulating?
Kris Aaron
with 14 fillings.
Seth doesn't have friends to talk to, so he calls these shows. He has some screws loose.
Seth ..... One animal eating another animal has noting at all to do with slavery . It has to do with survival , this is how nature works plain and simple . Slavery is the owning of other people and forcing them to spend their lives as being the property of someone else . Without any say in the matter . Lions do not do this to any other animals . They eat them like you eat chicken to survival . Your analogy is ill thought out .
Matt exposed the single most important point in all of theology, that being, if we ourselves are not omniscient then we could never know anything for certain. Which is why that, even if there were a God, it would be impossible for us to determine if it were a good God or an evil God. This being could just cloud our minds to make us think what it wants us to think. Which reminds me of the old radio play "The Shadow". "The shadow knows", but, you will never no for certain, because you don't have the power to cloud men's minds like the Shadow.
Idaho: the Mississippi of the Northwest
poor old Seth!!!
Poor Don. Great with prescriptive dialogue, but should have been able to to throw this mfer away in 2 minutes.
This sadly showed up Don's lack of debating skills and inability to communicate effectively in this type of forum.
Not his fault. You need to be prepared to deal with a presup question and answer approach and he was not prepared which Seth guessed which is why he chose Don. Matt should not have allowed that to happen and well before he saw Don floundering he should have stepped in.
@@theunrepentantatheist24 If Matt needs to step in when Don is floundering when asked the same sort of questions asked for many years proves my point.
This is the I have a cat guy from earlier
Seth does not get it.
Humans learned thousands of years ago that life is far better
when we band together & cooperate with each other.
No God required to figure this out.
He wasn’t even really appealing to a god. He just saw Don as a weaker mark, and he could get some sound bite with him looking like the winner... and he was, pretty much.. until Matt jumped in with his argument skills.
@@barkYdarkATFB
Ultimately you can't know what a person is thinking, all you can ever do is analyse their words & actions.
Of course for some it's just verbal combat, they're focused entirely on scoring points and not on learning anything new.
Seth thinks having a pet is like owning a human?? Last time I checked, people who have pets don’t beat them and are allowed to do that without punishment from the law lol.
How do I know you are morally correct in saying slavery is wrong? Easy you won"t turn up to start your incarceration as a my slave tomorrow.
If the god of the bible had been portrayed as a king instead of a God , he would be remembered as the most evil, mass murdering, tyrannical dictator of all time! Christians give the bible god a free pass because, they say, he is god the creator. I don't see the difference whether man or god. If his actions were evil or immoral, as the bible states, then he'd be just as guilty of being evil as any human committing the same deeds.
WHY did Don crap out? WHY didn't Don fully engage and slap the shit out of the caller? Phooey!
I expected much more from Don.
Clearly that's not his style.
Don does seem a bit soft in that area. Not that I could do any better but then again I’m not on a podcast.
Because he stayed true to himself and Seth didn’t deserve one ounce of Don to talk to him. Some people are smart with their actions and not engaging showed Don was much more intelligent than asshole Seth!!!
Because don is not a combative debater once he knew this guy was just trying to goad him and just restate the same thing a thousand times. Matt likes to fight that's his style, it's not a flaw in Don's character to not want to get into a knock down drag out debate with an irrational caller
Don is good with rebutting many theist positions - but good atheist debaters have been flustered by the presup position when aggressively presented question and answer checkmate style. Matt is a few levels above Don but he is exceptional so the right person to deal with Seth.
Don really needs to work on his argument/s.
Not the "Don Show"...😂😂
I like my battery acid dry, too much vermouth is bad for you.
Seth @21:40
What a fantastic call. It's got drama, petty squabbles, moral debate, metaphysics AND question dodging. It's practically a whole three-arc plot.
14:34 Carful Don! 😧
Coincidences over time could be 'very' common within infinite space time. Have a caviate a least.. maybe poor spelling ex moi.
Don is a gem.