As a loli myself, I can confirm that I am 4167 years, 5 months, 7 weeks, 2 days, 17 hours, 46 minutes, and 33 seconds old. But for real, there's a disturbing amount of people that can't differentiate reality from fiction, especially when human trafficking happens all over the world and involves children much more than adults. Azehara outta pocket with that Shadman fact, damn!
@@AzeharaCh is the social midia crazy (as in mentally ill) people are drawn to social midia like moths to a flame, iven thou they make 30% of human population they are all gathered on social midia as mentally sane people dont have the time to waist on social midia
@@AzeharaCh The issue is modern sociology teaches that all media is essentially just propaganda and its a required class in college. So you have all these midwits who think media isn't art, its just a means to spread your political agendas and propaganda and then they see anime with a loli and assume its pedophile propaganda rather then simply an artist's expression.
It's actually good that people who can't see the difference are so against lolies, it's safer this way. The problem accures when these people are hypocrites or are projecting, but even then it's not like there's a fight to be had
I distinctly remember a UK CPS organization legit had to tell people to stop filing reports on drawings because it bogs down actual cases. It's bad when it reaches that level. Seriously, focus your attention on actual children instead of fictional ones.
at that point they should start to fine people for wasting their time and recourses. if people keep abusing the system then they should face fair consequence
Reminds me when the UN tried to push countries to ban sexual objectification of women in medias like cartoons and anime, and almost every country replied with "Umm, no. How about you focus on real women problems instead?"
The issue with loli is that, while i understand why it's weird to people that you like characters that look like children doing sexual stuff, at the end of the day no children were hurt making, so it shouldn't be illegal. It's also quite interesting how we allow the enjoyment of violence without a problem, but when it comes to sex its a no no.
If your crimes involve no victims, it's nobody's business. Others may deem it "wrong" or "disgusting" or whatever but they have no right to limit you. The only limit that would be advised is limiting the *age of the viewer like for regular adult movies*. Problem solved. In the meantime real kids are trafficked, in some places cut out for organs but hey, I guess that's about as bad as jacking off to some drawings. Every literal communist satanist will tell you that, so it must be true. I'm being divisive writing truth from the wrong account? I'm so sorry. Not.
@@pea7422 First you would have to define "child". Is an 8 year old girl the same way a child as double that, a 16 year old and what about anything in between? I'm not trying to be difficult here but the issue is that the "child" definition can be narrowed or broaded depending on the person. To answer your question about fantasies, "loli" refers to a body type and the boundaries of where it's still a loli can be subjective but we have a general idea and a "loli" can be 10-12 like my mascot Illyasviel or 28 like Tatsumaki. And those two are also entirely different in regards to character. And I love them both, both are visually beautiful but quite honestly Illyasviel like no other character evokes fatherly feelings in me. Men *are not* built in a way that you can say "oh they're attracted to persons around 16 and anything below that is a mental illness". Well, no it isn't, biology dictates that attraction exists towards fertile females and that, like it or not, starts around 12. Men react positively to this phenomenon I forgot how it was called but it's women behaving like little girls on top of that. I'm not condoning doing illegal stuff with young people but you have to understand that simply put: most men like at minimum some sweetness between the spicy. Be it in adult form or not, virtual or not but if it's not adult, the solution is to keep it virtual. I would say it becomes mental when someone's preference is flat midgets that are not even developing yet. The solution stays the same, keeping it virtual. So in short: both. Again from my example: Canonical Illyasviel is pure sweetness and in the Kaleid world she's 10-12. Tatsumaki is pure spice in character and she's 28, usually depicted with a behind too heavy for her. Both are tiny. Both are lolis. Loli is love. Loli is life.
@McDooga1 Some countries have laws against realistic animated CP, which might be controversial but in 2023 we've entered an era where: 1) AI art can be indistinguishable from reality 2) You can apply a filter while talking through on a webcam to make yourself look like a kid 3) You can also steal someone's voice and appearance and create deepfakes that only advanced tech can differentiate between Instead of debating legally dubious matters, people should probably be scared sh**less but in the end, what can you do
@@pea7422 Oh but on the point of "being a threat to children irl". If that's the case then people who play shooters need to seek mental help before they go on a shooting spree. Same dumb argument. Do some that play FPS games go on a shooting rampage and do some that consume loli r*pe children? Sure. But the great majority do not and as for those that do, there's a bigger underlying problem than being a fan of virtual arts. Men are not f**king dogs, most have some brains and can control themselves. Some don't, those are on to Catch a this and that on some episode
Thing is, most lolicons would be okay with being "weird", but not okay with being labeled one of the worst crimes a person can commit. Personally I find excessive gore extremely off-putting, I could never play the new Mortal Combat, but I wouldn't go around calling Mortal Combat enjoyers serial killers or psychopaths and if I did everyone would call me a schizo, rightfully so.
So with Skullgirls in particular it's not the panty shots or revealing CGs that get to me, it's the fact they removed a whole crowdfunded announcer pack and altered Concept Art of all things. Not only was the concept art a separate purchase from the main game, but concept art should never be altered if you're going to release it to the public. It's the fucking primary ideas of the design and changing the concept art years after the final release doesn't give a good idea of how things changed during development. Also, they were inconsistent with what they changed. Cops beating a guy to death in Big Band's story is bad but a pov shot of Painwheel getting her eyes gouged out is no problem? Plus removing announcer packs is the same thing as removing DLC characters without refunding. It's scummy at best and an outright scam at worst. Why did I pay for this thing just for you to take it away from me? Do I get my money back when you do? No? Consider investing in a nice length of rope and think about how sturdy your ceiling fan is.
No, you should be annoyed that all the pantyshots and sht were removed BECAUSE IT CAME FROM THE SAME DAMN MENTALITY. Either all of it is ok, or NONE of it is ok. Don't move the line any forward, that's how the stuff *you* care about gets censored.
@@Keirnoth First thing, I think the issue of money is bigger than the changed artwork. I think it's theft to take someone's money for a product and then take it away from them years after the fact. The crowdfunded announcer pack that got removed should either be refunded or put back in the game. Same as the changed concept art, since it's a separate purchase it's basically like the devs coming into your house and destroying a physical art book. It's scummy and people should be able to get money back for it. As far as the art goes, I feel like you missed a bit of my second point, which was that their inconsistency in what they felt they removed shows they didn't need to change anything. If a pov shot of a girls eyes getting gouged out is okay, why isn't dirty cops killing someone? Along those same lines, why didn't they redesign the characters entirely if they felt there was an issue instead of going through and making lots of extremely minor changes that, in most cases, are extremely difficult to notice? There wasn't any real point to it than to pat themselves on the back and feel like they're fighting against something or making a point to try and appease people who cry about those things but still consume the media anyway. Anyone who played Skullgirls before the change and says "it's better without the borderline CP" is a hypocritical dumbass who is admitting they either a- understand the difference between reality and fiction despite their arguments otherwise, or b- actively support things they wholeheartedly believe contains CP. In both cases I hold nothing but hatred for those people.
The company behind the ones running Skullgirls/Indivisible nowadays is facing a ticking time bomb. Something was really off when a bunch of devs or some department who works for Indivisible
As someone that not only reads manga/doujins, but knows what CP actually is like (I've worked with forensics pretty closely), I find the equivalence between l0lis and CP to be fucking disgusting (and stupid), because they are OBJECTIVELY different and unrelated. CP implies the actual abuse of a f'in real life child (that can't and SHOULD NOT consent to sex), while lolis are cartoon drawings, they're FICTIONAL and, thus, no one is hurt in their making. How people missed on something this obvious is beyond me, probably m0rons under the guise of being highly morally superior, but actually pretty lacking in reasoning. "A fool who knows he's a fool is wise, but the fool who thinks himself wise is certainly a fool" ~ Buddha
Wait, you seem to know your sh*t, may I ask you something? Some people argument that the drawing is bad because it can A): influence a children in a g****ing attempt or B): act like a hook for people and make them want to do something despicable. What's your view on those arguments?
A) Any object can be used to groom children, from toys to candies to cartoons, etc. Drawings are not the exception, HOWEVER, it is not the art's or artists' fault and more on the person who decides to use them for grooming. B) Nonsense. This is the equivalent of "video games cause violence". Sure, every form of fiction (not just l0li) can be influential on people, but how that affects an individual depends a hell lot on him/herself and other aspects of their upbringing, the consumption of media entertainment alone isn't going to influence a person into committing a crime, unless that person is clearly not sane and can't discern. I play violent games like MK or DMC, and I don't go around wanting to finish people off because of these games. They are FICTION, so having discernment is important.
The problem is that everyone wants to feel like a hero without any real risk. This is a problem. What's really hilarious is that whenever the antis hear any criticism, they'll talk about their "pain" and "fear"... They have no idea what real pain and fear are. I believe this is a mistake.
@DarkAdonisVyers "The problem is that everyone wants to feel like a hero without any real risk" No ill will towards you, buddy, but that's a gross over simplification (AND an assumption). "whenever the antis hear any criticism, they'll talk about their "pain" and "fear"" What's an "anti"? (don't answer, it's rhetoric). Many more assumptions just there, (1) there are people who are anti, (2) they speak about their fears and pain, and (3) specifically when they hear criticism. You think you know people, their reasons and intentions, but they're baseless. Address the argument, not the people. "They have no idea what real pain and fear are" Do you know them? Man, you gotta push on those brakes and slow down. This thing you're doing is filled with all the same thinking patterns as those who hate l0li. THAT is the mistake here..
@@FindingsOfAnArmouredMind this man not only slaying the arguments, but showing respect to those who disagree cuz he doesn't know their situation. What a Champ.
That's the part that really gets me. Say whatever you want about lolicon and shotacon, but if you're _more_ harsh on that than you are on _real-world_ abuse, I'm going to assume there's a nefarious reason for that, and I'm going to judge your character based on it.
I was surprised when Mutahar is saying that and that he procerd it with him enjoying Cartel snuff. As far as for Nux, he is just an egotistical piece of shit and a coward who only cares about clout
You can show someone who is anti loli Kanna from Blue Archive without context and they would say "That character is ok" and then show them Mafuyu from Blend S and they'd say "no that's bad" when Mafuyu is the legal age one and Kanna only is 17. Short people exist, You're not gonna tell me people below a certain height can't be sexualized by themselves or others regardless of their age just because they have the wrong body type.
@@IncredibleMDwich one is the problem? Is it okay to lewd kanna because she look like an adult but her age isn't or lewding mafuyu an actual adult with loli body type? And my grandmother is 65+ yo and her height is around 150 cm does my grandfather being considered as a abuser just because my grandmother has a "loli" body type or is it okay because she is of legal age ?. As far as Iam concerned as long as it not photorealistic stuff anything should be fair game in the world of fiction.
Loli content be it porn or not, is okay. REAL child porn, is not okay. But the problem here is, Anti-Lolicons, can't seem to understand the difference, between a drawing on paper, and a real child. That's the problem here. Edit: The Anti-Loli Argument is the same as the "Violence in Videogame" argument. And it's dumb as fuck.
Which is why I will never agree with Anti-Loli arguments. They are fundamentally arguing that pure fiction is inherently tied to negative impacts in life like diddling kids or killing people and stealing cars when we have the statistics suggesting otherwise.
Yeah I mean here is a good counter-argument to anti-l0li rhetoric - how many actual diddlers have had loli content on their computers? I have yet to hear of one, they all have EXCLUSIVELY Cheese Pizza. If Loli was truly comparable, then how come diddlers still choose to risk their freedom for the real shit? If it is such a perfect alternative, then why aren't they into that? They are not even into it on the side, right? Like they want the real thing and real thing alone. I had an interesting convo with a guy who is usually indifferent about stuff like that and he brought up an extremely good point on the mentality of diddlers - they don't care about the body type in reality, the AGE is what they are looking for. They are into the aspect of someone being psychologically and emotionally immature. If it was a body thing, they, logically, would just date young ADULT women with small bodies. But they don't, age is an important factor to their demented nature. So if a loli is hurr durr 3000 years old, by no means should it attract real diddlers anyway.
@@Misanthropolis that actually a pretty interesting take. it sounds completely stupid but somehow sounds right at the same time edit: oh YT deleted his comment
Oh no, they understand the difference-that's why they all ran to the defense of _Cuties_ and cried foul about Twitter finally cracking down on little kids actively posting in NSFW threads and hashtags.
To add to the whole loli discussion: From the psychiatric standpoint there's a difference between how people perceive fiction and reality, liking something in fiction does not automatically translate into liking it in reality or having the urge to recreate it with real people. This is especially evident in cartoons. Cartoon characters are situated on the other side of the uncanny valley when it comes to human likeness and cause different empathetic response compared to real ealistic people. Being attracted to them is a unique concept. The anti-loli premise is no different from "violent video games make people violent" or "porn makes people into sex offenders" both of which have been repeatedly disproven.
@kenthalasAT Good example. A real harpy would probably be less cute but even if you find her attractive, you'd probably not gonna try to assault her. One could also make a more general example: Heterosexual men prefer women and because of that statistically they're more likely to assault them. If someone tries to stigmatize the entire group based on their preferences\attractions implying harmful intentions behind said attractions that would be absurd. Fiction or not this principle works all the time. People can't be inherently immoral based on their immutable characteristics. Ultimately what matters for society is how people act, not their thoughts or preferences.
@kenthalasAT I love monster girls but i cannot imagine myself having sex with a lamia, a spidergirl or even a centaur in real life, it would be really gross, and dangerous, scales are good when they are stylized but irl would be too creepy, also some things that turn on people is the more 'feral' aspects, lamias squeezing your bones, fox girls scratching and biting you, ejem... vore..., all those things make sense in fantasy because using our imagination we can modify the intensity of the situation and completely ignore or change the physical and moral complexities, since these characters do not really exist, we can't just transfer that to real life.
this only applies some of the time. I think people who like cartoon boobs probably like them for the same reasons they like looking at real boobs, for example. the individual needs to have a well-defined understanding of the boundary between fiction and reality for this to apply.
@@xXx_Regulus_xXx Indeed. Liking something be it fictional or real is not a problem by itself. Ultimately, it's about actions. Liking something and urging to harm real people are two separate things. The former does not imply the latter. Usually, people can consciously choose not to act on their thoughts, it's what separates us from animals. A person with a tendency to harm people will be more likely to do so no matter what preferences they have.
@@xXx_Regulus_xXx I don't know how well defined it is, but the difference between things that are obviously fake vs a real depiction is jarring. Even young kids make the distinction quickly. I don't watch Jim Sterling for many years now, but a long time ago there was a video showing a video game vs real attempt at own life. The latter was old and it was a fight to even show part of it on TH-cam (wouldn't be allowed at all now I suspect). Response to the latter was very uncomfortable, I didn't know the guy at all but it was much worse than watching an imaginary character die, even ones I'm invested in. In this sense, being attracted to cartoons this way could reasonably be seen as a fetish generally as long as the person is aware it's not real (if they can't make the distinction, it's a problem of a different kind, not necessarily a fetish). Psych evals usually look at whether stuff like this is impacting the person's life negatively in a general sense + whether it's harming anybody else. So long as they're of fictional characters, drawings can't harm others, and unless the person goes addict-mode with it and starts missing stuff they need to attend or something, the correct approach is to treat it like any other fetish...disregard/leave that private.
Oh I will NOT stand for BA slander, someone even did the math and they noted that like 60+ % of the BA cast is cute+funny, the highest out of the games they studied. There could always be more that's true, but they are already at 60% ish cute and funny.
I stopped watching him long before the whole drama with Vshojo happened, and even back then it was pretty clear he was developing a massive ego for a shitposter.
I don't think I've ever heard one of these people so much as bat an eye about shota btw. Pretty sure when all the hentai sites were getting rid of that tag I still saw shota in the tag lists
@@CBman11037 Unfortunately, in that case it's how SOCIETY operates. The differences in social reaction and legal penalties are insane. There have been multiple instances of statutory rape victims being ordered to pay child support in the US. Twitter freaks are delusional, but this particular bias extends far beyond them.
Leaving the hentai sites thing aside, they do, but only when called out for not talking about shota nearly as much. I feel like the whole moral panic about loli is mostly another form of antagonizing the "male gaze".
Anyone who can't differentiate from reality to fiction i find pretty worrisome. And this is coming from someone who has actual training to catch human trafficking.
A disturbing number of these loud critics on Twitter have their timelines full of the same content they criticize, or worse, get caught with the real deal.
Here's my take on lolis: Adults that look like teens/have babyfaces exist, and the ESRB is looking to exclude them from accessing content they are of legal age to access.
@@pea7422 To an extent I believe it's envy, belief impacted by general experience, meaning that folks like that are; apparently; rather rare to the point that many don't even believe they exist. Yet high-metabolic folks exist, as does keeping fit and eating things that keep the body from making excessive waste while promoting good cell growth. And then there's the culture we have that doesn't promote a good lifestyle in the first place. Granted, some can skirt this and still maintain a youthful appearance; for some reason; but the point remains. We promote degradation in the west. Degradation accelerates aging. So does stress.
@@pea7422 I was friends with a petite, 4'11" senior girl in high school and got well and truly fed up with this sort of shit when I saw it firsthand. We had to defend both her and her boyfriend from creeps and weirdos.
@@UTO7 true, but those same furry haters are not the ones saying shit like this, its usually people who think hating furries is backwards and bigoted and for edgelords that are so vehemently against sexualisation of underage fictional characters
Every argument that has ever been used against Loli can 100% be turned back upon furries, but the short sighted dipshits have 2 different mindsets on it Mindset #1 - If i condemn the lolis, the people who hate my stuff will see that im different and leave the stuff I like alone. Its never once worked in reality, but delusions from hypocrites who pretend to have literally been raised by wolves is nothing new. Mindset #2 - They know it can and if someone actually does they get to play the victim card *harder* for that dopamine rush and confirming to themselves that they're just a poor soul in the oppression olympics who cant do anything about it. Nevermind that they literally did it to themselves, thats not important.
I've seen other people suggest adding options for censorship but the only people clamoring for censorship are busybodies who don't play the games anyways. It would just end up adding a lot of complexity and extra work for options almost nobody will actually use. Developers decide on a target market early on and adjust the content of the game to be majority appropriate for that demographic. Targeting ESRB ratings really helps with this too.
The _Skullgirls_ example is actually a good one: the publishers wanted to hold tournaments for money, but they couldn't broadcast all that fanservice the way it was. Their solution was stupid, but the problem was real.
@@DistractedGlobeGuy I suppose that's a decent point. I hadn't considered this because I'm not familiar with Skullgirls (not really into fighting games at all) but I've heard that some fighting game tournaments will only permit certain outfits for each character which I think is a good solution for situations where a significant spectator component is expected. I contextualized these suggestions for offline RPGs or action games which is a context where it tends to not make much sense to bother.
@@Under_the_Iceberg right. They still made the wrong choice by censoring the whole game and whining about their actual fans being upset about it, which ended up killing the game entirely, but their original concern was reasonable.
@@DistractedGlobeGuy Ah I think I misunderstood what you meant originally, and at least in practice, it seems to strengthen my original point, but yeah, sometimes fan backlash is simply out of tune.
@@Under_the_Iceberg no you definitely had it right. Wanting to hold tournaments is a fine goal for a fighting game dev team, and of course you can't do that with a game as lewd as the original version of _Skullgirls._ But when you completely nuke the original version of your game after it's been out for years and has a dedicated fanbase instead of just releasing a patch with alternate settings as an option, you lose all credibility. They basically pulled a George Lucas by destroying the original work that made people like them in the first place.
Options are fine if the game developers wants to have them. Not every puzzle game wants to let you skip every puzzle, Similarly to how not every game wants to let you have a easy breezy time. Actual accessibility options are much more important, such as re-mapping buttons/ colour blind options/ epilepsy toggles. For me, I hate games that force me to use "motion blur" because it physically makes me feel sick.
I agree accessibility options are very important. But the idea that you can play a game and skip one of the main features of the game (combat/puzzles) is absurd to me. Dont play the game. Even the Souls games have an "easy" mode when you summon people/NPCs.
You hate forced motion-blur because it sets off your motion sickness. I hate forced motion-blur because it makes my GPU start smoking. We are not the same.
Personally I find stuff of that order worthing of a summary execution, but that's just me taking an extreme value on the matter of consent. Something the world has seem to no longer consider.
By twitter logic, the likes of Piper Perry classifies as p-bait for being a flat-chested petite woman. Don’t hear any outrage there, though. Usually those who complain and oppose the most, are those who have the most skeletons on their hard drive. I’d rather an actual p-phile consume h-manga, than them going after real children. A drawing doesn’t suffer, doesn’t go through trauma, doesn’t die.
I agree with a lot of people in the comments, lets go after the real predators. As weird as it may be, loli drawings are nothing more than free speech.
I'm just kind of reminded of how, on the DVD commentaries of some episodes of the Simpsons and Futurama, they mention that the Fox censors back in the day were so ridiculous and hypocritical about a lot of things, the writers would intentionally send scripts for review with jokes they knew full well would never get approved, only so they could then "revise" the scripts with the versions of the jokes they actually wanted to do, and it would be approved because it was the "toned down" version, aka fake compliance with the censors, when in reality if they sent THAT version to begin with, it would have most likely been rejected. Fact is censorship is NEVER objective and always depends on the mentality of the person doing the censoring's opinions, with no thought given to the actual creators or the audience. If someone doesn't like the content of a game or show or whatever, they need to find something else to do. Demanding it conform to what they want it to be is not just the height of self-centeredness, it's also straight up bigotry, which the very people doing said censoring love to accuse their opposition of.
This and Violent video-games cause violence are just two massive sociocultural scapegoats and proves that 80% if not more of the population of the world don’t understand Correlation vs Causation.
The issue is that japan and other countries makes these shows and games etc. With the idea that people wont take fictional characters that seriously. Then enter westerners. I think people need to embrace just not playing something if they want it censored clearly its not for you, and we have to adress the twitter weirdos that want stuff censored on stuff they aren't even gonna play or watch.
the age of consent is also different, and most people around the world don't think highschoolers as minors, this includes canada and new zealand and even england which has the age of consent at 16(canada used to be 14 until recently) and most of europe and asia have it even lower at around 14 in lots of places. however japan and south korea copied america so they still have it at 18, while korea at 21.
@@NeostormXLMAX Rather, they copied California. Most of the US is actually 16, but since Hollywood/Silicon Valley is in a place where it's 18, people all over the world (including many Americans) think it's a nationwide thing.
This isn't just a westerner thing, it's a human thing, over half our human population has the IQ of a frog to be honest, they go through life making motions and thinking they are different/special but they aren't. There's this whole shebang thing about dreaming where the level of detail in a dream correlates to the level of intellect and artistic creatitivity the individual has and most people on earth apparently dream as if playing a video game on 320p on mimumum settings. Imagine going through life so unimaginative that your dreams are essentially generation 2/3 gaming consoles. I personally think this is also why some people, particularly the older people cannot play video games, they have no sense of 3D space around them, they don't understand basic physics concepts about the world around them, so when they try to play a video game, set in a different space with a different set of rules, they cannot compartmentalise the situation. They then conflate that their lacking of something is actually the game being dumb and for children, clearly, because they cannot enjoy it like everyone else can. This has lead to the stigmatism of video games as a whole.
If these individuals feel uneasy with Japanese cartoon characters looking younger, why haven’t they voice their opinions about drag queen story hour or giving children very suggestive books about sexuality in a very young age ?
There is nothing sexual about drag queen story hour. I don't know which suggestive books about sexuality you mean, so I'd have to examine that on a case-by-case basis. But the current wave of moral panics about "grooming" are actually quite similar to the anti-lolicon moral panics, albeit tending to be on the opposite political tribe.
I don't see the big deal myself, but that's cause I personally know men and women that looked like a 12-14 yr olds while they were 26+. I'm with MoistCr1tikal on this one. Folk with melanin just look younger on average, and throw in the smaller stature and the west just feels like it's using loli to be racist. Kinda like Australia's ban on women in the adult industry who have small breasts labeling it as pedo bait. It indirectly affects Asians more as on average they have a smaller breast size. I admittedly have less defense of sexualizing canonical minors like in Highschool DxD if you want to stonewall specifically age of even fictitious characters, but that's mainly because I have no stakes in that race and can't care. Though I would still defend it because if you can ban sexualizing of fake minors, why aren't you banning fake murder? The most popular of illegal activities to be shown on tv and the movies. Don't be a hypocrite.
>Folk with melanin I've never heard someone use that term unless they're actually idpol weirdos on Twitter or unless it's actually talking about some sort of medical condition involving the sun. idk if you have noticed bu tthe posters here don't get offended when you say "blacks" or "whites" or light skinned or dark skinned people lol I'm Korean and I'm in my late 30s, and I've been mistakened to be in my late 20s. People also shouldn't forget if you spend more time indoors like a lot of us losers who watch her do (including me), you also subject your skin to way less aging, so a lot of us are gonna look pretty young even when we grow older.
And what's more, those "literal 8 year old children" they refer to are drawn with thighs and hips that no human kid would have, look at the example 2:59, so the argument doesn't even stand on the grounds of them looking like "literal children". There are legit loli characters that are drawn with human proportions, but antis don't even get that far. Instead they see a drawing of a loli with thighs as thick as the torso and hips as wide as the shoulders and screech "REEEE CP PEDO LITERAL CHILD FBI OPEN UP". Actual clowns.
1:28 THATS because of MUDAHAR the someordinarygamers guy, they got close after the vshoko debacle, and the someordinary podcasts! mudahar is obsessed with the whole anti loli stuff, and he also is obsessed with the qanon shit, which is ironic considering he started out as some one who would play fucked up vis look up fucked shit on the webetc and he even saw actual cp on a few streams of vids.
See it's okay for Mutahar to do all that shit because it's part of his "sincerely held religious beliefs", and we wouldn't want to _discriminate,_ now would we?
I agree with Muta's point about admitting that being into loli stuff is weird. Some things do be that way and it's okay to be into them as long as you do no harm to anyone. However his argument about loli stuff being "gateways" doesn't hold up whatsoever when you realise that it's much easier to find reports of violent crimes being associated to violent videogames (which he seems to be a huge fan of btw), than it is to find reports of real CSA being associated to loli materials. Projecting much?
Muta is so weird here because he hates Loli yet actively searches for real gore videos of REAL people. Infinitely fucking worse then fake children, even if loli is super fucking weird.
You're using a very biased argument to say there is much more evidence in the form of video games. There isn't. And I'm sure a ton of pedos use loli content. Not saying that it's a gateway, but if they are willing to abuse real children, why would they not look at legal cartoon depictions of them?
@@johnrossi6189So basically they had to make a 15+ version where a lot of the images are cropped to appease south Korean regulators course this all backfired after blue archives players protested en masse which revealed a massive amount of corruption causing the entire branch to be sacked
That's markedly different. He never showed them kissing, it was merely implied and it was for comedic effect. I think it's weird for sure, but I see meat canyons intent was not at all like shad mans which was to make porn of children, and even past intent the things he made were not even close to pornographic. Again weird, but not close to illegal or that of CSEM and clearly made to play on the joke about how Tom Brady kisses his son too much, not that it's good for his son to be sexualised.
@@EyesDontCry For one, Shadman hasn't made actual Cp, he drew Keems daughter once, but never in a sexualized way. But due to him being a well known Porn Artist who has made Loli Art. It was assumed so. But never did he do so. Also, the same defense you use for Meatcanyon is the same defense used by Shadmans defenders. Just like me with this comment. At the very least however, Shadman didn't draw Keems daughter in a sexual way or drew her doing anything sexual. But Meatcanyon? He actually animated and voice acted Tom Brady having Kissy Intimate Moment with his Son. 🤦♂️😑
@@WallNutBreaker524 he quite literally did not animate it you are lying, it happens offscreen so clearly you can't have watched it if you don't know that. And I wasn't talking about keems daughter, I'm more so thinking of when he drew the actress for x13 in logan, which was 100% sexual. You just need to look at shadmans conduct, he knew what he was doing with both drawings and they were intended to be sexual in a pornographic way, there was no pornographic intent nor implication in meat canyons work, and the worst example which I agree was weird, was never even drawn and clearly a joke relating to Tom Brady being weird, not sexualising his kid like shadman did with his drawings. These are entirely different situations, both worthy of criticism, but not at all on the same level even remotely.
@@WallNutBreaker524 I mean you clearly need to look into shadman more if you think it was just keems daughter he did this with, and again the drawing he did of his daughter was a compromise when someone asked him to draw her giving Donald Trump head. Turkey Tom made a fairly conclusive video documenting this stuff a while back, but he did this with millie Bobby Brown, that girl from logan and lt corbis, with the girl from logan being the final straw as that was literally just her naked.
@@EyesDontCry Didn't know about the Logan one. Still doesn't excuse Meat canyon. They're both the same. I did watch the Meat canyon video, and it doesn't excuse it just cuz it was off screen considering the fact It was still Animated and Voice Acted. All I see is cope and seething. At least I can give you that for Shadman. But you bootlick hard for Meatcanyon when he literally did the same thing. And I dare say Meatcanyon is worse due to how much defense he's getting for something very bad and something Shadman is criticized for. Implied, Off Screen, it don't matter.
Thing is, i remember a few years ago where the whole loli thing wasn't even an issue. It was rarely if ever discussed. It was a completely normal thing and everyone knew anyone who even liked it was just a normal person with a peculiar interest. Fast forward like 6 years later and now EVERYONE is up in arms about it. Suddenly its offensive. So what happened in those 6 years? Why is it a problem now when it wasn't an issue before? Also i was playing GTA, MK, and watching James Bond and The Matrix when i was 7. NOW kids cant even watch or play the most remedial shit. Keep this up and the generations after us will all be soft and overly sensitive. YOURE SEEING IT RIGHT NOW!
>Keep this up and the generations after us will all be soft and overly sensitive. Homie, I think we're already there with the super vocal minority who apparently break down in literal tears if you don't use whatever pronouns someone identifies as having.
Epstein client list needs to be defended, consciously or subconsciously, by people who still need to believe in benevolence of the institutions The main way to do this besides outright denial is "watering down" the crime
its almost shocking how relieved i notice myself feeling when i hear someone say they dont really care about loli because the characters are fictional. i could actual feel my tension melting away because im always ready to cringe at people making brain-dead takes about this subject everytime its brought up censorship should be entirely voluntary player-by-player, like how difficulty settings or accessibility options should be
Even voluntary censorship is a slippery slope because it normalizes the idea that censorship itself is in any way good so that when the next moral panic arises it is that much easier to sell the idea of forced censorship to people because they've already accepted the idea that certain things aren't okay even in fiction from "toggles" also the people who push for toggles do so in bad faith intentionally trying to grease the slope
also i gotta say something about the blue archive and anime stuff in general ,we old people aren't the target demographic a lot of people forget that this things are targeted to teens , so to be more relatable to the demographic the character are teens too
...which is still bad for BluAka since it's a gambling product that should probably be heavily regulated on that basis, but for a completely different reason and due to actual harm being done in reality.
Explicitly minor or not, there's a reason why most of the world's child protection laws explicitly specify that CP only applies to actual recordings and in art that is indistinguishable from real life. They're not there to discourage enjoyment of that sort of thing, but to prevent people who can't consent to be exploited. It's similar to why cow f*cking is illegal in most of the world. They can't consent either. It has nothing to do with furries themselves, and the laws are deliberately designed to allow for such things as long as they don't involve non-consenting actors.
Yeah like firstly they forgot that most VAs for the Loli are in their 30s Secondly it still confused me that there are alot of people who can't tell the difference between a real child and a cartoon characters
for visual media the presentation is more important than the lore. If I draw a picture of a juicy sirloin steak and there's a footnote somewhere explaining that it's actually some cleverly disguised asparagus, a vegan still isn't going to want to look at it because the visuals are of meat.
@@dustlight1762 People who make the arguments are generally either uninformed and just making a knee-jerk reaction, or are contrarians fishing for internet points and a chance to cause actual harm to another person. And most people arguing this point online are in the latter group since they're the only ones who will get into the argument more than once.
based take on fictional art but crusading on loli stuff when you do loli stuff is like how people would turn in other people for being gay when they were gay
I don't care for the idea of a toggle to censor content for a game. It feels too much like a way to developers to get lazy and just say "Let's just not have it the content in." Lolis are 2D. The mentally ill crowd can fuck off, especially when they can't distinguish between fiction and reality
There's only ever been two arguments against not just loli, but really any attraction, first being the idea that normalization leads to increased harm, which is a debunked and entirely inaccurate premise. People assert it as though it's just true, but don't understand that in every case where content of a particular type is legalized or less stigmatized, abuse rates based on that attraction go down. It points out that stigmatization of demoralized people leads to sending the attraction underground, and also an increased risk of self-harm and harm to those of a target attraction. Banning something doesn't suddenly and magically make people with those attractions disappear, you just reduced their incentive to abide by the law or by any ethical standard (such as attractions not the same as actions) when it comes to handling their sexual attractions. The second argument is moral grandstanding, which falls flat on its face immediately when you apply the same logic to any other attraction/sexuality, an attraction is an immutable characteristic, we knew this even before people tried to conduct "gay therapy" on homosexuals through psychiatry and other more "shocking" methods. Calling an attraction immoral is the equivalent to calling someone with that immutable characteristic as inherently immoral. This allows puritan zealots to conduct a wide censorship of ideas they're disgusted and/or offended by, but in reality disgust and offense are not viable tools for dictating morality.
Until developers under a crunch realise they're required to make a streamer version, but nobody's requiring them to make the NSFW version. Congratulations, you've reinvented the Hayes Code and now your medium will stagnate and lose thirty years of progress.
i think the options arguement could have included to have censorship options for streaming and content creation purposes, because like i know places like twitch and youtube isn't cool with nudity and nudity is becoming more present in games nowadays
actually TH-cam and twitch is okay with nudity specially if is the specific thing, advertising companies and the people blackmailing those companies are the ones that don't like nudity
This is such a weird debate. I'm a lamia enjoyer to be honest and I wouldn't want to have a big internet debate about how weird it is, because someone asked another person to draw something another likes and this weirded out someone. Whoa. It's how people are. I don't go to another tag to start a debate on how weird I find their stuff.
TBH, nothing wrong with that, as long as the devs think it fits their vision. Would of course hit somewhat different to see a game taking place in berlin or new york only having islamic garb wearing women.
Well if I recall correctly he was arrested for assualt and not his art so doubt he was given incentive to not continue as normal. This was years ago I heard this tho so 🤷♂️
It would make more sense to ban games because obviously you're murdering virtual people there. Why more sense? People enjoying loli are not (usually) of a mindset to hurt anyone, including the virtual characters, who have been created in a way that's quite different than real people.
Huh? How can you make that arguement? You just seem incredibly biased and looking for a scapegoat. I'm not even bringing anything against loli here, just your comments about how games are somehow different in a worse way. You're murdering virtual people, yes... And in loli content, nobody looks at it sexually? I really don't get what you're trying to say here. Loli enjoyed aren't of the mindset to hurt anyone. Okay. And people who play violent games are of the mindset to hurt people? Seriously, what are you talking about? This is an extremely silly stance to make, because you're arguing against your own side. The same nonsense arguments you use against games can be used in the exact way for loli stuff. To think it doesn't is just completely closed and biased thought.
"It looks like a child" "Its a depiction" "Its potraying pred bait" "Its bad cuz media literacy" "Its still of a child, fictional or not" "Its a alternative to cp" "I dont care, its weird and degenerate" "" Any other moral outrage spittle and thought terminating cliches they muster. Be it from the left or right spectrum.
@@sebyah_carbonate Pedophilia is liking real children. You can't say they like children just off of that. If anything, most people who have fought against it were the ones found to have cp
If you ask from me loli is quite wide term in the style of drawing characters. Most of vtubers are drawn so. That comes from the fact that big part of anime/manga characters start from school settings, because older characters don't have life anymore, they can't have an adventure. Just do your job and drink till you die. So the drawing style has evolved like this. One of the reasons why I like older anime more... Settings and styles are differing. Nowadays people use that same style for older characters in grown-up settings, or just simplifies it even more. I just look for good and sweet atmosphere. Some characters are easy tells, and you can cross out some settings just because. Shit is just dark, I'm not into kinks. Gintama jokes about how their characters look the same, but blames it on Shinpachi. You either have old people and "kids", the challenge is to fill out the middle part, because it requires work on the settings and story, so that "the light" that is being reflected off by the characters would make them seem more mature as they are able to deal with heavier setbacks. Then you can say they are adults, even if not stated by anything but maybe their starting point in the story. Then there are just clear shots which are just kid characters... “one speaks about the fence, the other about the fenceposts”
As a Blue Archive player, I don't think I see the point Kirsche is trying to make. None of the characters look super old, and most look their age. There are a few exceptions, with girls like Shun and Rio, who we don't even know how old they are, but they're still classified as students even though they don't look it. But I'm pretty sure those types of girls are a minority and most look the way a student should look. The 11 year old Kirsche mentioned does actually look 11, so I really don't get why she even mentioned her. And she kinda makes it sound like every underage anime girl should look like a loli, but that doesn't really make sense. 17 is underage, and there's nothing weird about 17 year olds being more developed.
I was quite confused on that one too tbh. If someone like Rebecca or tatsumaki is a Loki then I'd say like 75-80% percent of the characters from BA fall into the Loli catergory. Not to mention, I'm fairly sure in the game the age of the characters isn't important to them being lolies, as I'm 90% sure Hina is 17 (ain't gonna check that rn) and there are bustier and bigger characters, like Ako, under that age mark (it's fiction, after all).
@@Enchie yeah? Violent video games were proven multiple times not to cause violence, and the release of things like breaking bad didn’t cause a nationwide meth production or usage.
I don't think i subscribe to the whole "toggle" argument. If it's of the original design philosophy to include one, then whatever, add what you want, but i think it goes against the artistic intent in a lot of places. The sexuality of Skull Girls, the violence of GTA, and the challenge of Dark Souls are a part of their presentation. Im not against accessibility options, add shit like controller support and button remapping, but taking away intrinsic elements to these games' artistic intentions just feels like pandering. Sometimes, a game isn't made for you. A kid shouldn't be playing DOOM. If you don't like oversexualized characters, then why are you playing Senran Kagura? If all you do is play chill simulator games and gachas, don't complain to me that youre having trouble in Elden Ring. If you can't stand blood and death, then why are you playing Ghost of Tsushima? You can judge how the games USE these things, like discuss when something feels unfair or too far, but to remove those elements because "i dont like it" feels insulting. I agree you shouldn't be flashbanged by controversial topics, and while I'm not big on content warnings it's a decent way of safeguarding especially people especially sensitive to certain things due to trauma, but these games are usually pretty forthcoming with what their whole deal is, and this extends to things like movies and books. There's a rating on the box for that reason, lol. The only use for those toggles to me is either for convenience for streaming games to get around TOS or to have people consume art in a fairly surface level and passive way. One is more for marketting and the other is for broad appeal over genuine expression. As someone who loves to create and loves taking in other people's work, it saddens me that censorship (even optional censorship) is being pushed as simply a net positive here. There's some benefits, mainly in profit, and if it's unobtrusive then it'd hardly affect me since i just wouldnt engage with it, but i think most people would take the "safer" option over engaging with the art on its level, leading to normalizing that lack of media literacy and increase the volume of marketable safe cookie cutter shit so people don't have to go through that step of revising and censoring. It costs a lot to comb through cutscenes to put in black bars, remove blood, retool animations, and reblance encounters. If a company is going to make a game, why invest in projects that would need all those extra safeguards when we could just make another FIFA? It's that reason I think even presenting the option will lead to some regression. Hell i could be wrong but this is strictly my opinion on things. TL;DR I think censorship to appease a market over artistic intent in anyform is antithetical to art as a whole. If that censorship is a part of that intent, thats just a branch if the creators vision and has a right to be there. You know what youre getting into with most games, so if you dont like it, just dont engage with it. Dont force change on them to suit your taste and the toggle isnt a good answer to the problem at hand, which is people just dont know when to engage with something and when to leave it alone.
To be fair, sometimes games have a lot of elements one really enjoys and a particular one a player doesn't. How critical a particular element is should be up to the dev, not some 3rd party company pushing an agenda. An example that comes to mind for me where this is reasonable is gears of war turning down the blood/gore. I appreciated the visceral nature of the violence depicted, it really fits the game's setting. However, by the time I was in 50th+ multiplayer match, I turned it off just so I could see the screen better after taking an opponent out close range...in rare circumstances, that mattered for gameplay. I'd have still played and enjoyed the gears games if the option to do that wasn't available, but I appreciated having this option too. Depending on what experience the devs and players value (gritty depiction vs slightly more player agency in competitive MP), either setting could be considered better. IMO, for stuff like this if the devs don't feel strongly that it impacts the game experience much, the toggle option makes sense. In contrast, a difficulty setting in something like Dark Souls would necessarily directly influence the game's design and ultimately its quality. The final product as it was delivered would have to be sacrificed in at least some capacity to add one...with the obvious caveat that the series bakes in numerous ways to make it easier to clear them w/o strong reaction times or memorizing boss move sets fully etc. Over-leveling/upgrading, summons, upgrading multiple weapons and using easiest ones in fights, buff stacking, shield blocking, these things all influence how much raw input skill is required. On the extreme end, a player was able to win a challenge in Elden Ring where they could full-clear the game (including Malenia) without rolling to dodge at all, just tanking all the hits. Obviously, that required intimate knowledge of the game...but it's hard to make a case that once you have said knowledge, the mechanical challenge is still as high as fighting normally. Again, putting a slider into the game negates all of these alternatives, and the devs didn't include it for a good reason. TL DR is that sometimes toggles make sense and sometimes they would damage the experience too much.
I'm more confused when it's a fictional dwarf who has literal body of a child, they're okay with it. and it's realistic art as well, so what's up with that? I will never understand westerners
0:47 I find it far more weird when people give a grown adult look to a child than give a grown adult the looks of, at least a teenager. 2:34 Glad that these people are still equating ped to looks, not age. Definitely not some skeletons in the closet there. Its funny too, because there is a youtuber, General sso, who meets the most extreme version of that body type. Is she not allowed to be an adult because of her looks? Will the man she marries always be shamed as a ped? Can characters that look like kindergardeners look weird? Yeah. 4:41 It seems like they are trying to water it all down. Knownly or not. 5:19 I lived in Japan. Most of the girls in their early to mid 20s could look 14 if they just wore certain clothes/makeup.
If it's most 20 year olds, they don't "look" 14. You just have a skewed/biased perception of what a 14 year old should look like, especially in a different country where people have different genetics.
@@pdpgb ... "could look" just went right past you? Thank you for reiterating my point about how in anime, that body type isn't indicative of young age, which is why it is attached to that time stamp.
@@lifeline_ Yes because I didn't think it was particularly relevant. Teens these days wear "sexy" clothes all the time so if an actual 20 year old wore the same thing and you couldn't tell the difference, my point stands. And you're the one who said 14 so imagine how much more true that is for 16 and 17 year olds. Which happens to be how old the girls in Blue archive are.
@@pdpgb never said anything about that style of clothing nor did I make a point in that direction, so it is irrelevant. Again, just reiterating my point for no reason.
@@lifeline_ I am disagreeing with your point that most 20 year old women in Japan "look like they're 14". If most of them look like that than by definition that's what a 20 year old looks like in Japan. You're starting with some preconceived notion of what a 14 year old is suppose to look like and then imposing that on a different culture and people that it clearly doesn't apply too. It's the same thing people are doing with the Stellar blade girl. Claiming she "looks like a child" or "unrealistic" even though she closely resembles the adult Korean model she's based on. It's very foolish and borders on racism. Implying that Asian girls don't look how they're "suppose to". You brought the clothes point up even though I initially ignored it because it didn't seem relevant. So why are you crying now that I responded to it? So weird.
My stance on loli stuff is the same now as it's always been. They're drawings. Its not real. Nobody's getting hurt and frankly I find people treating drawings on the same level of seriousness as actual CP to be disgusting. It's literally downplaying actual child victims of predators and it just makes you look weird. The drawing will not magically come to life and thank you for protecting its non existent rights. You just look like a Schizo treating a bunch of lines and color on a piece of paper as a real person. What I also find funny on the topic is people act like you acknowledging its a drawing means that you can't find it weird. Nobody said you can't find loli art weird. Because, news flash for the zoomers, art was made to be provocative. You're SUPPOSED to feel something when looking at a drawing. Rather its comfort or discomfort. You're not in the wrong for feeling a certain way about a drawn character. It's when you start treating the fictional character as a real person is where the vast majority of normal people will draw the line.
no body is getting hurt? so when i express that i was abused at 9 and then people send me loli con to trigger me thats not hurting anyone? idc what a picture thinks, i care the artist behind it has naked children for references. i care that the AI tags people use to get "the best loli AI art" has puberty, toddler and infant in it. i will die on this hill. its not weird its disgusting, youre downplaying the fact someone thinks a childs figure is arousing and drew it, posted it for others to get off to or send to victims of CSA.
@@Chocolatemilkpro 1. No loli artist has naked references that'd be an actual crime you sperg. 2. If you trauma-dumped that you got molested and then people took advantage that's on you, you're on the internet, why would you do that? 3. You're equating real abuse to pixels on a screen, by all means die on that hill but keep it to twitter you freak.
@@Zerarick it did. i was apart of a HPRP gmod server and the dev, his name is zero posted loli porn in staff chat. i told him why i dont wanna see it in staff chat and he said oh well and proceeded to say i was a fragile leftist snowflake and sent me pic after pic of AI lolicon. you can find out about this by looking up the bub games video and switching comments to new. their server just got nuked by some gmod hacker guy. but go on, tell me about my CSA experience.
Based. I wish people could tell the difference between fantasy and reality... I also wish people would put even half of the time and effort going after actual crimes against actual people that they do in going full SJW mode over a fictional character. The cartoons rights are not being violated, the cartoon is not suffering an endless hell of body and mind, put your efforts toward the REAL problems we have. You dislike it, great, don't consume it. I despise and completely do not understand and utterly think foot fetishes are disgusting, deranged, red flag and unsafe, insane for anyone.. so I avoid it. I wholly agree with Pippa and Kirsche; let ME choose what I am and am not exposed to in films, games, etcetera. Like, mad respect to Larian for how they handled it in BG3.. you choose.. you got toggles, you have SFW mode.. hell like RL you even have layered clothing options.... rock on with your chaste and pure gaming.. meanwhile, my barbarian gonna rock out with no sock out.
I think describing it as a debate or discussion is giving it too much credit. I don't have a dog in this race but it's an internet slapfight that's been around for at least 20 years and I've yet to see a coherent civil discussion.
I like to imagine anime characters skeletons 💀 A lot of anime characters, lolis in particular, I wouldn't even consider them "human" But that's all academic since ANIME CHARACTERS AREN'T REAL PEOPLE, THEY DON'T NEED PROTECTION FROM IRL HUMAN TRAFFICKING OR LEGAL PROTECTION.
i have a GREAT EXAMPLE! no Russian. before the mission the game asks you if you want to play and partake in the slaughter of innocent people. it gives you the option to SKIP it. its important to the story, but you can skip it and move on. (call of duty by the way)
Censored GTA is just a Lego Game, Lego City specifically. The reason I'd argue against toggles is because for younger children there are more than enough less violent alternatives already
@@yokai1235 bruh , when i was i child if i protest i get a slaper to the face , like i don't like the mentally that children can do what ever they want if they protest a lot , like that is why we get adults that get really angry and violents if they don't get what they want
Great video and loli debate is just like video games make people violent. Because people play video games to live a fantasy and that the same thing with loli. Also, considering it's rare but people who are child sexual abuse victims have been recommended by their therapist loli art to help them.
5:32 I get what Pippa is getting at, a lot of people who do this are being patronizing towards east asian cultures when they say stuff like this, but my understanding is in Japan (idk about other cultures) the average person has a clearer understanding of the boundary between fiction and reality. Fictional stuff is enjoyed on its own terms to the point that when a major anime movie director made the decision to make some characters speak in a more natural, conversational tone rather than sounding like a character it was considered against the grain. With that in mind, I think the odds of a western lolicon being interested in commiting certain crimes is higher than an eastern lolicon. Over here there's been a rise in fiction influencing people's tastes irl, and I've watched the shift take place as a somewhat terminally online westerner myself.
The average person here does too. Online discourse does not match what you get when you just talk to people at work or school or w/e. Granted I haven't gone around polling people about this topic, but from what little I've heard about it seems the normies I know are think or are most likely to think it's a weird fetish and toss it in the same mental bin as people into feet, adult diapers or similar as long as nobody real is involved. And unlike some other normie takes, that's probably fair? Statistically, it is weird in the sense that I doubt it's a big % of people into it. My associations are likely biased though. Most people I talk to for any length of time have some solid degree of rationality and are capable of conditional hypotheticals, so I can't speak for what a truly "average" person would think or how they'd react. Probably still not like the twitter mobs though, those are a special kind of ill. I'm not sure about the west *generally* changing via fiction, beyond the political fights over it reflecting everyone to go nuts.
As a loli myself, I can confirm that I am 4167 years, 5 months, 7 weeks, 2 days, 17 hours, 46 minutes, and 33 seconds old.
But for real, there's a disturbing amount of people that can't differentiate reality from fiction, especially when human trafficking happens all over the world and involves children much more than adults.
Azehara outta pocket with that Shadman fact, damn!
Its scary the amount of people that cant tell the difference. Maybe its because social media highlights this shit but it didnt feel like this before.
take a look at Genshin community. Its disgusting people says "Poor Tighnari, he deserve a VA that isnt a sex offender" LIKE STFU
@@AzeharaCh is the social midia crazy (as in mentally ill) people are drawn to social midia like moths to a flame, iven thou they make 30% of human population they are all gathered on social midia as mentally sane people dont have the time to waist on social midia
@@AzeharaCh The issue is modern sociology teaches that all media is essentially just propaganda and its a required class in college. So you have all these midwits who think media isn't art, its just a means to spread your political agendas and propaganda and then they see anime with a loli and assume its pedophile propaganda rather then simply an artist's expression.
It's actually good that people who can't see the difference are so against lolies, it's safer this way. The problem accures when these people are hypocrites or are projecting, but even then it's not like there's a fight to be had
I distinctly remember a UK CPS organization legit had to tell people to stop filing reports on drawings because it bogs down actual cases.
It's bad when it reaches that level. Seriously, focus your attention on actual children instead of fictional ones.
at that point they should start to fine people for wasting their time and recourses. if people keep abusing the system then they should face fair consequence
The FBI did the same thing.
And Chris Hansen.
sorry it's like a serious message and all but your second line looks hilarious out of context
You remember where you heard that from? Something I'd like to see for myself.
Reminds me when the UN tried to push countries to ban sexual objectification of women in medias like cartoons and anime, and almost every country replied with "Umm, no. How about you focus on real women problems instead?"
Didn the UN have a huge sexual exploitation of minors problem?
@@AzeharaChYes, and they also relatively recently pushed a thing saying that AoC laws should be ignored
the un has outlived its purpose
I love how the topic went from loli to kirsche speaking about how her mom lost custody due to selling illegal firearms is highly typical of these 2
The issue with loli is that, while i understand why it's weird to people that you like characters that look like children doing sexual stuff, at the end of the day no children were hurt making, so it shouldn't be illegal.
It's also quite interesting how we allow the enjoyment of violence without a problem, but when it comes to sex its a no no.
If your crimes involve no victims, it's nobody's business. Others may deem it "wrong" or "disgusting" or whatever but they have no right to limit you.
The only limit that would be advised is limiting the *age of the viewer like for regular adult movies*. Problem solved.
In the meantime real kids are trafficked, in some places cut out for organs but hey, I guess that's about as bad as jacking off to some drawings. Every literal communist satanist will tell you that, so it must be true. I'm being divisive writing truth from the wrong account? I'm so sorry. Not.
@@pea7422 First you would have to define "child". Is an 8 year old girl the same way a child as double that, a 16 year old and what about anything in between? I'm not trying to be difficult here but the issue is that the "child" definition can be narrowed or broaded depending on the person.
To answer your question about fantasies, "loli" refers to a body type and the boundaries of where it's still a loli can be subjective but we have a general idea and a "loli" can be 10-12 like my mascot Illyasviel or 28 like Tatsumaki. And those two are also entirely different in regards to character. And I love them both, both are visually beautiful but quite honestly Illyasviel like no other character evokes fatherly feelings in me.
Men *are not* built in a way that you can say "oh they're attracted to persons around 16 and anything below that is a mental illness". Well, no it isn't, biology dictates that attraction exists towards fertile females and that, like it or not, starts around 12. Men react positively to this phenomenon I forgot how it was called but it's women behaving like little girls on top of that.
I'm not condoning doing illegal stuff with young people but you have to understand that simply put: most men like at minimum some sweetness between the spicy. Be it in adult form or not, virtual or not but if it's not adult, the solution is to keep it virtual.
I would say it becomes mental when someone's preference is flat midgets that are not even developing yet. The solution stays the same, keeping it virtual.
So in short: both. Again from my example: Canonical Illyasviel is pure sweetness and in the Kaleid world she's 10-12. Tatsumaki is pure spice in character and she's 28, usually depicted with a behind too heavy for her. Both are tiny. Both are lolis. Loli is love. Loli is life.
@McDooga1 Some countries have laws against realistic animated CP, which might be controversial but in 2023 we've entered an era where:
1) AI art can be indistinguishable from reality
2) You can apply a filter while talking through on a webcam to make yourself look like a kid
3) You can also steal someone's voice and appearance and create deepfakes that only advanced tech can differentiate between
Instead of debating legally dubious matters, people should probably be scared sh**less but in the end, what can you do
@@pea7422 Oh but on the point of "being a threat to children irl". If that's the case then people who play shooters need to seek mental help before they go on a shooting spree. Same dumb argument.
Do some that play FPS games go on a shooting rampage and do some that consume loli r*pe children? Sure. But the great majority do not and as for those that do, there's a bigger underlying problem than being a fan of virtual arts.
Men are not f**king dogs, most have some brains and can control themselves. Some don't, those are on to Catch a this and that on some episode
Thing is, most lolicons would be okay with being "weird", but not okay with being labeled one of the worst crimes a person can commit. Personally I find excessive gore extremely off-putting, I could never play the new Mortal Combat, but I wouldn't go around calling Mortal Combat enjoyers serial killers or psychopaths and if I did everyone would call me a schizo, rightfully so.
Last time this became a heated debated online the side fighting against 2D was later found to be in possession of the real deal.
And it just keeps happening
@@seki108 funny how it was the lawyer from the UN who got caught.
Never trust a blue helmet.
Always happens. The people that are against it are usually the ones hiding either actual CP or caught grooming children.
The list of them is ever expanding.
"I hate trying to find CP but all that comes up is that cartoon stuff"
So with Skullgirls in particular it's not the panty shots or revealing CGs that get to me, it's the fact they removed a whole crowdfunded announcer pack and altered Concept Art of all things. Not only was the concept art a separate purchase from the main game, but concept art should never be altered if you're going to release it to the public. It's the fucking primary ideas of the design and changing the concept art years after the final release doesn't give a good idea of how things changed during development. Also, they were inconsistent with what they changed. Cops beating a guy to death in Big Band's story is bad but a pov shot of Painwheel getting her eyes gouged out is no problem? Plus removing announcer packs is the same thing as removing DLC characters without refunding. It's scummy at best and an outright scam at worst. Why did I pay for this thing just for you to take it away from me? Do I get my money back when you do? No? Consider investing in a nice length of rope and think about how sturdy your ceiling fan is.
No, you should be annoyed that all the pantyshots and sht were removed BECAUSE IT CAME FROM THE SAME DAMN MENTALITY. Either all of it is ok, or NONE of it is ok. Don't move the line any forward, that's how the stuff *you* care about gets censored.
@@Keirnoth First thing, I think the issue of money is bigger than the changed artwork. I think it's theft to take someone's money for a product and then take it away from them years after the fact. The crowdfunded announcer pack that got removed should either be refunded or put back in the game. Same as the changed concept art, since it's a separate purchase it's basically like the devs coming into your house and destroying a physical art book. It's scummy and people should be able to get money back for it. As far as the art goes, I feel like you missed a bit of my second point, which was that their inconsistency in what they felt they removed shows they didn't need to change anything. If a pov shot of a girls eyes getting gouged out is okay, why isn't dirty cops killing someone? Along those same lines, why didn't they redesign the characters entirely if they felt there was an issue instead of going through and making lots of extremely minor changes that, in most cases, are extremely difficult to notice? There wasn't any real point to it than to pat themselves on the back and feel like they're fighting against something or making a point to try and appease people who cry about those things but still consume the media anyway. Anyone who played Skullgirls before the change and says "it's better without the borderline CP" is a hypocritical dumbass who is admitting they either a- understand the difference between reality and fiction despite their arguments otherwise, or b- actively support things they wholeheartedly believe contains CP. In both cases I hold nothing but hatred for those people.
The company behind the ones running Skullgirls/Indivisible nowadays is facing a ticking time bomb. Something was really off when a bunch of devs or some department who works for Indivisible
As someone that not only reads manga/doujins, but knows what CP actually is like (I've worked with forensics pretty closely), I find the equivalence between l0lis and CP to be fucking disgusting (and stupid), because they are OBJECTIVELY different and unrelated. CP implies the actual abuse of a f'in real life child (that can't and SHOULD NOT consent to sex), while lolis are cartoon drawings, they're FICTIONAL and, thus, no one is hurt in their making. How people missed on something this obvious is beyond me, probably m0rons under the guise of being highly morally superior, but actually pretty lacking in reasoning. "A fool who knows he's a fool is wise, but the fool who thinks himself wise is certainly a fool" ~ Buddha
Wait, you seem to know your sh*t, may I ask you something?
Some people argument that the drawing is bad because it can A): influence a children in a g****ing attempt or B): act like a hook for people and make them want to do something despicable. What's your view on those arguments?
A) Any object can be used to groom children, from toys to candies to cartoons, etc. Drawings are not the exception, HOWEVER, it is not the art's or artists' fault and more on the person who decides to use them for grooming.
B) Nonsense. This is the equivalent of "video games cause violence". Sure, every form of fiction (not just l0li) can be influential on people, but how that affects an individual depends a hell lot on him/herself and other aspects of their upbringing, the consumption of media entertainment alone isn't going to influence a person into committing a crime, unless that person is clearly not sane and can't discern. I play violent games like MK or DMC, and I don't go around wanting to finish people off because of these games. They are FICTION, so having discernment is important.
The problem is that everyone wants to feel like a hero without any real risk. This is a problem. What's really hilarious is that whenever the antis hear any criticism, they'll talk about their "pain" and "fear"... They have no idea what real pain and fear are. I believe this is a mistake.
@DarkAdonisVyers
"The problem is that everyone wants to feel like a hero without any real risk"
No ill will towards you, buddy, but that's a gross over simplification (AND an assumption).
"whenever the antis hear any criticism, they'll talk about their "pain" and "fear""
What's an "anti"? (don't answer, it's rhetoric). Many more assumptions just there, (1) there are people who are anti, (2) they speak about their fears and pain, and (3) specifically when they hear criticism. You think you know people, their reasons and intentions, but they're baseless. Address the argument, not the people.
"They have no idea what real pain and fear are"
Do you know them? Man, you gotta push on those brakes and slow down. This thing you're doing is filled with all the same thinking patterns as those who hate l0li. THAT is the mistake here..
@@FindingsOfAnArmouredMind this man not only slaying the arguments, but showing respect to those who disagree cuz he doesn't know their situation. What a Champ.
Hates loli stuff and calls people pedos.
Also applauds Cuties..
Many such cases
Ah yes I know who you are talking about it's Sneako the dumb ass hypocrite.
That's the part that really gets me. Say whatever you want about lolicon and shotacon, but if you're _more_ harsh on that than you are on _real-world_ abuse, I'm going to assume there's a nefarious reason for that, and I'm going to judge your character based on it.
When Pippa says “I’m not gonna get into it” she’s about to get into it
"Take it easy, it's just a drawing." -Patrick Star
Being able to differentiate between fiction and reality is a super power.
Nux and Mutahar used to be about nuance.
Now, they're just part of the ill-informed crowd.
I was surprised when Mutahar is saying that and that he procerd it with him enjoying Cartel snuff. As far as for Nux, he is just an egotistical piece of shit and a coward who only cares about clout
It's sad, but true. Mutahar and Nux fell off.
Nux is the best example of "please like me, I'm completely non-hostile and not threatening at all"
a very pickme type, probably working through trolls remorse in real time. ya hate to see it
You can show someone who is anti loli Kanna from Blue Archive without context and they would say "That character is ok" and then show them Mafuyu from Blend S and they'd say "no that's bad" when Mafuyu is the legal age one and Kanna only is 17. Short people exist, You're not gonna tell me people below a certain height can't be sexualized by themselves or others regardless of their age just because they have the wrong body type.
@@knightspartan7201 Kokona is 11, and Kanna isn't loli.
@@IncredibleMD And Kokona got tons of doujins this comiket, what about it? I have every single piece of Kokona art in existence saved in my PC.
@@komi___ Never talk to me or (especially not) my children ever again.
@@komi___ Holy based.
@@IncredibleMDwich one is the problem? Is it okay to lewd kanna because she look like an adult but her age isn't or lewding mafuyu an actual adult with loli body type? And my grandmother is 65+ yo and her height is around 150 cm does my grandfather being considered as a abuser just because my grandmother has a "loli" body type or is it okay because she is of legal age ?. As far as Iam concerned as long as it not photorealistic stuff anything should be fair game in the world of fiction.
Loli content be it porn or not, is okay. REAL child porn, is not okay. But the problem here is, Anti-Lolicons, can't seem to understand the difference, between a drawing on paper, and a real child. That's the problem here.
Edit: The Anti-Loli Argument is the same as the "Violence in Videogame" argument. And it's dumb as fuck.
Which is why I will never agree with Anti-Loli arguments. They are fundamentally arguing that pure fiction is inherently tied to negative impacts in life like diddling kids or killing people and stealing cars when we have the statistics suggesting otherwise.
Yeah I mean here is a good counter-argument to anti-l0li rhetoric - how many actual diddlers have had loli content on their computers? I have yet to hear of one, they all have EXCLUSIVELY Cheese Pizza. If Loli was truly comparable, then how come diddlers still choose to risk their freedom for the real shit? If it is such a perfect alternative, then why aren't they into that? They are not even into it on the side, right? Like they want the real thing and real thing alone.
I had an interesting convo with a guy who is usually indifferent about stuff like that and he brought up an extremely good point on the mentality of diddlers - they don't care about the body type in reality, the AGE is what they are looking for. They are into the aspect of someone being psychologically and emotionally immature. If it was a body thing, they, logically, would just date young ADULT women with small bodies. But they don't, age is an important factor to their demented nature. So if a loli is hurr durr 3000 years old, by no means should it attract real diddlers anyway.
@@Misanthropolis that actually a pretty interesting take. it sounds completely stupid but somehow sounds right at the same time
edit: oh YT deleted his comment
Oh no, they understand the difference-that's why they all ran to the defense of _Cuties_ and cried foul about Twitter finally cracking down on little kids actively posting in NSFW threads and hashtags.
@@Glacial_floofssometimes the stupid things are correct.
To add to the whole loli discussion:
From the psychiatric standpoint there's a difference between how people perceive fiction and reality, liking something in fiction does not automatically translate into liking it in reality or having the urge to recreate it with real people. This is especially evident in cartoons. Cartoon characters are situated on the other side of the uncanny valley when it comes to human likeness and cause different empathetic response compared to real
ealistic people. Being attracted to them is a unique concept.
The anti-loli premise is no different from "violent video games make people violent" or "porn makes people into sex offenders" both of which have been repeatedly disproven.
@kenthalasAT Good example. A real harpy would probably be less cute but even if you find her attractive, you'd probably not gonna try to assault her.
One could also make a more general example:
Heterosexual men prefer women and because of that statistically they're more likely to assault them. If someone tries to stigmatize the entire group based on their preferences\attractions implying harmful intentions behind said attractions that would be absurd. Fiction or not this principle works all the time. People can't be inherently immoral based on their immutable characteristics. Ultimately what matters for society is how people act, not their thoughts or preferences.
@kenthalasAT I love monster girls but i cannot imagine myself having sex with a lamia, a spidergirl or even a centaur in real life, it would be really gross, and dangerous, scales are good when they are stylized but irl would be too creepy, also some things that turn on people is the more 'feral' aspects, lamias squeezing your bones, fox girls scratching and biting you, ejem... vore..., all those things make sense in fantasy because using our imagination we can modify the intensity of the situation and completely ignore or change the physical and moral complexities, since these characters do not really exist, we can't just transfer that to real life.
this only applies some of the time. I think people who like cartoon boobs probably like them for the same reasons they like looking at real boobs, for example.
the individual needs to have a well-defined understanding of the boundary between fiction and reality for this to apply.
@@xXx_Regulus_xXx Indeed. Liking something be it fictional or real is not a problem by itself. Ultimately, it's about actions. Liking something and urging to harm real people are two separate things. The former does not imply the latter. Usually, people can consciously choose not to act on their thoughts, it's what separates us from animals. A person with a tendency to harm people will be more likely to do so no matter what preferences they have.
@@xXx_Regulus_xXx I don't know how well defined it is, but the difference between things that are obviously fake vs a real depiction is jarring. Even young kids make the distinction quickly. I don't watch Jim Sterling for many years now, but a long time ago there was a video showing a video game vs real attempt at own life. The latter was old and it was a fight to even show part of it on TH-cam (wouldn't be allowed at all now I suspect). Response to the latter was very uncomfortable, I didn't know the guy at all but it was much worse than watching an imaginary character die, even ones I'm invested in.
In this sense, being attracted to cartoons this way could reasonably be seen as a fetish generally as long as the person is aware it's not real (if they can't make the distinction, it's a problem of a different kind, not necessarily a fetish). Psych evals usually look at whether stuff like this is impacting the person's life negatively in a general sense + whether it's harming anybody else. So long as they're of fictional characters, drawings can't harm others, and unless the person goes addict-mode with it and starts missing stuff they need to attend or something, the correct approach is to treat it like any other fetish...disregard/leave that private.
These two having a solid coherent line of well put thoughts.
Fiction is not reality.
Nux started being against lolis to get some brownie points from Mutahar.
Clout is a hell of a drug.
And then he threatened to get Rev banned while trying to clout farm on him, which only served to expose his own hubris that he couldn't take jokes.
Oh I will NOT stand for BA slander, someone even did the math and they noted that like 60+ % of the BA cast is cute+funny, the highest out of the games they studied.
There could always be more that's true, but they are already at 60% ish cute and funny.
Nux is the absolute worst...
I stopped watching him long before the whole drama with Vshojo happened, and even back then it was pretty clear he was developing a massive ego for a shitposter.
@@freedantheeternal The moment he won against myanimelist he began getting high off his own farts.
I don't think I've ever heard one of these people so much as bat an eye about shota btw. Pretty sure when all the hentai sites were getting rid of that tag I still saw shota in the tag lists
many people still don't think older women infringing on the bodily autonomy of male children is a problem, sadly
when a man does it to a girl hes a monster. When a woman does it to boy he gets the luckiest boy of the year award. Thats how these freaks operate
@@CBman11037 Unfortunately, in that case it's how SOCIETY operates. The differences in social reaction and legal penalties are insane. There have been multiple instances of statutory rape victims being ordered to pay child support in the US. Twitter freaks are delusional, but this particular bias extends far beyond them.
Leaving the hentai sites thing aside, they do, but only when called out for not talking about shota nearly as much. I feel like the whole moral panic about loli is mostly another form of antagonizing the "male gaze".
Anyone who can't differentiate from reality to fiction i find pretty worrisome. And this is coming from someone who has actual training to catch human trafficking.
No one has that issue. This is a red herring.
@@frostdracohardstyledoxxing victims would like to disagree
@@frostdracohardstyleyes, yes they do
is because only sane people can separate fiction from reality and is is now a turning into a instinct species on social media
A disturbing number of these loud critics on Twitter have their timelines full of the same content they criticize, or worse, get caught with the real deal.
Here's my take on lolis:
Adults that look like teens/have babyfaces exist, and the ESRB is looking to exclude them from accessing content they are of legal age to access.
thank you i dont get why people see a young looking adult female and say shes a child. 😭 sht hurts me on a daily basis
@@pea7422 To an extent I believe it's envy, belief impacted by general experience, meaning that folks like that are; apparently; rather rare to the point that many don't even believe they exist.
Yet high-metabolic folks exist, as does keeping fit and eating things that keep the body from making excessive waste while promoting good cell growth.
And then there's the culture we have that doesn't promote a good lifestyle in the first place. Granted, some can skirt this and still maintain a youthful appearance; for some reason; but the point remains.
We promote degradation in the west. Degradation accelerates aging. So does stress.
@@pea7422 I was friends with a petite, 4'11" senior girl in high school and got well and truly fed up with this sort of shit when I saw it firsthand. We had to defend both her and her boyfriend from creeps and weirdos.
Haven't seen many people who say looking at loli porn encourages pedophilia saying looking at furry porn encourages zoophilia, just saying🤷
Isn't that usually what furry haters think though? For the record I'm neither and have no horse in this race.
@@UTO7 true, but those same furry haters are not the ones saying shit like this, its usually people who think hating furries is backwards and bigoted and for edgelords that are so vehemently against sexualisation of underage fictional characters
@@alanhasmemes fair enough, I avoid twitter like the plague so it's all just cringe to me
@@UTO7furries are hated for being furries, never heard someone ACTUALLY hate on them because of zoophilia
Every argument that has ever been used against Loli can 100% be turned back upon furries, but the short sighted dipshits have 2 different mindsets on it
Mindset #1 - If i condemn the lolis, the people who hate my stuff will see that im different and leave the stuff I like alone. Its never once worked in reality, but delusions from hypocrites who pretend to have literally been raised by wolves is nothing new.
Mindset #2 - They know it can and if someone actually does they get to play the victim card *harder* for that dopamine rush and confirming to themselves that they're just a poor soul in the oppression olympics who cant do anything about it. Nevermind that they literally did it to themselves, thats not important.
I've seen other people suggest adding options for censorship but the only people clamoring for censorship are busybodies who don't play the games anyways. It would just end up adding a lot of complexity and extra work for options almost nobody will actually use.
Developers decide on a target market early on and adjust the content of the game to be majority appropriate for that demographic. Targeting ESRB ratings really helps with this too.
The _Skullgirls_ example is actually a good one: the publishers wanted to hold tournaments for money, but they couldn't broadcast all that fanservice the way it was. Their solution was stupid, but the problem was real.
@@DistractedGlobeGuy I suppose that's a decent point. I hadn't considered this because I'm not familiar with Skullgirls (not really into fighting games at all) but I've heard that some fighting game tournaments will only permit certain outfits for each character which I think is a good solution for situations where a significant spectator component is expected. I contextualized these suggestions for offline RPGs or action games which is a context where it tends to not make much sense to bother.
@@Under_the_Iceberg right. They still made the wrong choice by censoring the whole game and whining about their actual fans being upset about it, which ended up killing the game entirely, but their original concern was reasonable.
@@DistractedGlobeGuy Ah I think I misunderstood what you meant originally, and at least in practice, it seems to strengthen my original point, but yeah, sometimes fan backlash is simply out of tune.
@@Under_the_Iceberg no you definitely had it right. Wanting to hold tournaments is a fine goal for a fighting game dev team, and of course you can't do that with a game as lewd as the original version of _Skullgirls._ But when you completely nuke the original version of your game after it's been out for years and has a dedicated fanbase instead of just releasing a patch with alternate settings as an option, you lose all credibility. They basically pulled a George Lucas by destroying the original work that made people like them in the first place.
Options are fine if the game developers wants to have them.
Not every puzzle game wants to let you skip every puzzle, Similarly to how not every game wants to let you have a easy breezy time.
Actual accessibility options are much more important, such as re-mapping buttons/ colour blind options/ epilepsy toggles.
For me, I hate games that force me to use "motion blur" because it physically makes me feel sick.
I agree accessibility options are very important. But the idea that you can play a game and skip one of the main features of the game (combat/puzzles) is absurd to me. Dont play the game. Even the Souls games have an "easy" mode when you summon people/NPCs.
You hate forced motion-blur because it sets off your motion sickness.
I hate forced motion-blur because it makes my GPU start smoking.
We are not the same.
I didn't know about Mutahar and his enjoyment in watching Cartel beheadings until today lmfao
Do people give the same attention to hentai rape fetish? If someone like that in fiction do they think they will try to attack someone?
That is actually a good question , what about the ero guro art
Personally I find stuff of that order worthing of a summary execution, but that's just me taking an extreme value on the matter of consent. Something the world has seem to no longer consider.
Oi leave redo of healer out of this
@@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena lol, I feel bad 4u
@@Y.uushii For what?
By twitter logic, the likes of Piper Perry classifies as p-bait for being a flat-chested petite woman. Don’t hear any outrage there, though. Usually those who complain and oppose the most, are those who have the most skeletons on their hard drive. I’d rather an actual p-phile consume h-manga, than them going after real children. A drawing doesn’t suffer, doesn’t go through trauma, doesn’t die.
I almost fucking choked on my food after "illegally selling firearms"
A victimless crime, I say.
👍🇺🇸
based, although i hope she doesn't get any visits from the ATF, wouldn't want her getting "ruby ridged".
I agree with a lot of people in the comments, lets go after the real predators. As weird as it may be, loli drawings are nothing more than free speech.
Facts.
Dudes on the internet be pulling out the measuring tape to see if the character’s eyes size, height and package is within legal limits.
Lolis continuing to simultaneously be the best gatekeeper and fake fan detector ever created.
Stay mad antis. Stay mad.
FACTS 😂
XD being against pedophilia in your community doesn't mean your a fake fan.
muta here his his gateway drug of beheading videos.
@KooneDoog mans rabbit hole'd his way to watersports on the hub, so i believe in what he calls weird.
Well, it _is_ part of his religion...
Kersche's avatar spazzing out when speaking was so distracting, lol
I'm just kind of reminded of how, on the DVD commentaries of some episodes of the Simpsons and Futurama, they mention that the Fox censors back in the day were so ridiculous and hypocritical about a lot of things, the writers would intentionally send scripts for review with jokes they knew full well would never get approved, only so they could then "revise" the scripts with the versions of the jokes they actually wanted to do, and it would be approved because it was the "toned down" version, aka fake compliance with the censors, when in reality if they sent THAT version to begin with, it would have most likely been rejected.
Fact is censorship is NEVER objective and always depends on the mentality of the person doing the censoring's opinions, with no thought given to the actual creators or the audience. If someone doesn't like the content of a game or show or whatever, they need to find something else to do. Demanding it conform to what they want it to be is not just the height of self-centeredness, it's also straight up bigotry, which the very people doing said censoring love to accuse their opposition of.
I think the South Park guys also did a similar thing.
This and Violent video-games cause violence are just two massive sociocultural scapegoats and proves that 80% if not more of the population of the world don’t understand Correlation vs Causation.
The issue is that japan and other countries makes these shows and games etc. With the idea that people wont take fictional characters that seriously. Then enter westerners.
I think people need to embrace just not playing something if they want it censored clearly its not for you, and we have to adress the twitter weirdos that want stuff censored on stuff they aren't even gonna play or watch.
the age of consent is also different, and most people around the world don't think highschoolers as minors, this includes canada and new zealand and even england which has the age of consent at 16(canada used to be 14 until recently) and most of europe and asia have it even lower at around 14 in lots of places. however japan and south korea copied america so they still have it at 18, while korea at 21.
@@NeostormXLMAX Rather, they copied California. Most of the US is actually 16, but since Hollywood/Silicon Valley is in a place where it's 18, people all over the world (including many Americans) think it's a nationwide thing.
It's weird to westerners because of how cucked they are by feminism.
This isn't just a westerner thing, it's a human thing, over half our human population has the IQ of a frog to be honest, they go through life making motions and thinking they are different/special but they aren't.
There's this whole shebang thing about dreaming where the level of detail in a dream correlates to the level of intellect and artistic creatitivity the individual has and most people on earth apparently dream as if playing a video game on 320p on mimumum settings.
Imagine going through life so unimaginative that your dreams are essentially generation 2/3 gaming consoles.
I personally think this is also why some people, particularly the older people cannot play video games, they have no sense of 3D space around them, they don't understand basic physics concepts about the world around them, so when they try to play a video game, set in a different space with a different set of rules, they cannot compartmentalise the situation.
They then conflate that their lacking of something is actually the game being dumb and for children, clearly, because they cannot enjoy it like everyone else can.
This has lead to the stigmatism of video games as a whole.
The average avid loli critic is in possession of irl CP
Many such cases!
There's a reason the "reset the clock" archive exists after all.
Yep 😂 Anti-lolis projecting.
O boy this is more true then ever before
If these individuals feel uneasy with Japanese cartoon characters looking younger, why haven’t they voice their opinions about drag queen story hour or giving children very suggestive books about sexuality in a very young age ?
because it's not about children safety is just them wanting to monopolize morality and content to only be for they're own taste and no one else
One of those is considered stunning and brave, the other is from Japan so it doesn't get to be a part of woke social capital.
There is nothing sexual about drag queen story hour. I don't know which suggestive books about sexuality you mean, so I'd have to examine that on a case-by-case basis. But the current wave of moral panics about "grooming" are actually quite similar to the anti-lolicon moral panics, albeit tending to be on the opposite political tribe.
@@Megaritz Except one has actual basis in fact. Hint: It isn't the one about drawings.
@@Megaritzexcept the right and the left hate Japanese lolicon media
I don't see the big deal myself, but that's cause I personally know men and women that looked like a 12-14 yr olds while they were 26+. I'm with MoistCr1tikal on this one. Folk with melanin just look younger on average, and throw in the smaller stature and the west just feels like it's using loli to be racist. Kinda like Australia's ban on women in the adult industry who have small breasts labeling it as pedo bait. It indirectly affects Asians more as on average they have a smaller breast size.
I admittedly have less defense of sexualizing canonical minors like in Highschool DxD if you want to stonewall specifically age of even fictitious characters, but that's mainly because I have no stakes in that race and can't care. Though I would still defend it because if you can ban sexualizing of fake minors, why aren't you banning fake murder? The most popular of illegal activities to be shown on tv and the movies. Don't be a hypocrite.
>Folk with melanin
I've never heard someone use that term unless they're actually idpol weirdos on Twitter or unless it's actually talking about some sort of medical condition involving the sun. idk if you have noticed bu tthe posters here don't get offended when you say "blacks" or "whites" or light skinned or dark skinned people lol
I'm Korean and I'm in my late 30s, and I've been mistakened to be in my late 20s. People also shouldn't forget if you spend more time indoors like a lot of us losers who watch her do (including me), you also subject your skin to way less aging, so a lot of us are gonna look pretty young even when we grow older.
And what's more, those "literal 8 year old children" they refer to are drawn with thighs and hips that no human kid would have, look at the example 2:59, so the argument doesn't even stand on the grounds of them looking like "literal children". There are legit loli characters that are drawn with human proportions, but antis don't even get that far. Instead they see a drawing of a loli with thighs as thick as the torso and hips as wide as the shoulders and screech "REEEE CP PEDO LITERAL CHILD FBI OPEN UP". Actual clowns.
@@gr33dl0cknein3 True.
> Kinda like Australia's ban on women in the adult industry who have small breasts
This is an internet myth. Please stop repeating it.
1:28 THATS because of MUDAHAR the someordinarygamers guy, they got close after the vshoko debacle, and the someordinary podcasts! mudahar is obsessed with the whole anti loli stuff, and he also is obsessed with the qanon shit,
which is ironic considering he started out as some one who would play fucked up vis look up fucked shit on the webetc and he even saw actual cp on a few streams of vids.
See it's okay for Mutahar to do all that shit because it's part of his "sincerely held religious beliefs", and we wouldn't want to _discriminate,_ now would we?
mortal kombat had a toggle for blood and gore in the first few games
Never was much of a Mortal Kombat fan but I remember people wanting to get the first one on Genesis VS SuperNintendo because it had more gore in it.
yep exactly that@@AzeharaCh
Pippa forgot herself also looks like a loli
censorship is a curse upon this world...
If anyone is on a watch list it's Pippa the supreme leader of Pippakistan.
I agree with Muta's point about admitting that being into loli stuff is weird. Some things do be that way and it's okay to be into them as long as you do no harm to anyone.
However his argument about loli stuff being "gateways" doesn't hold up whatsoever when you realise that it's much easier to find reports of violent crimes being associated to violent videogames (which he seems to be a huge fan of btw), than it is to find reports of real CSA being associated to loli materials.
Projecting much?
Neither of those are true, and the fact he supports one while demonizing the other is hypocrisy.
Muta is so weird here because he hates Loli yet actively searches for real gore videos of REAL people. Infinitely fucking worse then fake children, even if loli is super fucking weird.
You're using a very biased argument to say there is much more evidence in the form of video games. There isn't. And I'm sure a ton of pedos use loli content. Not saying that it's a gateway, but if they are willing to abuse real children, why would they not look at legal cartoon depictions of them?
Facts. 😂
@@UnknownGamer40464Muta, Muta and Nux fell off. Mutas a Hypocrite and Nux became Politically correct and also a hypocrite.
7:10 ironically enough? Blue archive. Literally made 2 separate versions of the game. One censored one uncensored
Wait uncensored? What do they considered uncensored? O.o
@@johnrossi6189So basically they had to make a 15+ version where a lot of the images are cropped to appease south Korean regulators course this all backfired after blue archives players protested en masse which revealed a massive amount of corruption causing the entire branch to be sacked
@@MasakanSolaris Ah okay so global version is the "uncensored" version.
And the censored version just covered up the tits.
Nice use of the count dankula clip
3:24 Not just Shadman, you should also add Meat canyon and his Tom Brady video.
That's markedly different. He never showed them kissing, it was merely implied and it was for comedic effect.
I think it's weird for sure, but I see meat canyons intent was not at all like shad mans which was to make porn of children, and even past intent the things he made were not even close to pornographic.
Again weird, but not close to illegal or that of CSEM and clearly made to play on the joke about how Tom Brady kisses his son too much, not that it's good for his son to be sexualised.
@@EyesDontCry For one, Shadman hasn't made actual Cp, he drew Keems daughter once, but never in a sexualized way. But due to him being a well known Porn Artist who has made Loli Art. It was assumed so. But never did he do so. Also, the same defense you use for Meatcanyon is the same defense used by Shadmans defenders. Just like me with this comment. At the very least however, Shadman didn't draw Keems daughter in a sexual way or drew her doing anything sexual. But Meatcanyon? He actually animated and voice acted Tom Brady having Kissy Intimate Moment with his Son. 🤦♂️😑
@@WallNutBreaker524 he quite literally did not animate it you are lying, it happens offscreen so clearly you can't have watched it if you don't know that.
And I wasn't talking about keems daughter, I'm more so thinking of when he drew the actress for x13 in logan, which was 100% sexual.
You just need to look at shadmans conduct, he knew what he was doing with both drawings and they were intended to be sexual in a pornographic way, there was no pornographic intent nor implication in meat canyons work, and the worst example which I agree was weird, was never even drawn and clearly a joke relating to Tom Brady being weird, not sexualising his kid like shadman did with his drawings.
These are entirely different situations, both worthy of criticism, but not at all on the same level even remotely.
@@WallNutBreaker524 I mean you clearly need to look into shadman more if you think it was just keems daughter he did this with, and again the drawing he did of his daughter was a compromise when someone asked him to draw her giving Donald Trump head.
Turkey Tom made a fairly conclusive video documenting this stuff a while back, but he did this with millie Bobby Brown, that girl from logan and lt corbis, with the girl from logan being the final straw as that was literally just her naked.
@@EyesDontCry Didn't know about the Logan one. Still doesn't excuse Meat canyon. They're both the same. I did watch the Meat canyon video, and it doesn't excuse it just cuz it was off screen considering the fact It was still Animated and Voice Acted. All I see is cope and seething. At least I can give you that for Shadman. But you bootlick hard for Meatcanyon when he literally did the same thing. And I dare say Meatcanyon is worse due to how much defense he's getting for something very bad and something Shadman is criticized for. Implied, Off Screen, it don't matter.
8:15 it always escalates so fast with Kirsche
Thing is, i remember a few years ago where the whole loli thing wasn't even an issue. It was rarely if ever discussed. It was a completely normal thing and everyone knew anyone who even liked it was just a normal person with a peculiar interest. Fast forward like 6 years later and now EVERYONE is up in arms about it. Suddenly its offensive. So what happened in those 6 years? Why is it a problem now when it wasn't an issue before? Also i was playing GTA, MK, and watching James Bond and The Matrix when i was 7. NOW kids cant even watch or play the most remedial shit. Keep this up and the generations after us will all be soft and overly sensitive. YOURE SEEING IT RIGHT NOW!
>Keep this up and the generations after us will all be soft and overly sensitive.
Homie, I think we're already there with the super vocal minority who apparently break down in literal tears if you don't use whatever pronouns someone identifies as having.
Normies happened. Thanks to streaming services normies flooded the space. Now its problematic when back then it was whatever.
@@AzeharaCh That's why, like the Dark Brotherhood, you must always Keep and Purify.
Epstein client list needs to be defended, consciously or subconsciously, by people who still need to believe in benevolence of the institutions
The main way to do this besides outright denial is "watering down" the crime
Its easy to say what happened, we became the ones who need to tell them that our anime waifu is not real
1:45 nux is a hypocrite
Real human isn't a drawing , it's not that hard !
its almost shocking how relieved i notice myself feeling when i hear someone say they dont really care about loli because the characters are fictional. i could actual feel my tension melting away because im always ready to cringe at people making brain-dead takes about this subject everytime its brought up
censorship should be entirely voluntary player-by-player, like how difficulty settings or accessibility options should be
Even voluntary censorship is a slippery slope because it normalizes the idea that censorship itself is in any way good so that when the next moral panic arises it is that much easier to sell the idea of forced censorship to people because they've already accepted the idea that certain things aren't okay even in fiction from "toggles" also the people who push for toggles do so in bad faith intentionally trying to grease the slope
also i gotta say something about the blue archive and anime stuff in general ,we old people aren't the target demographic a lot of people forget that this things are targeted to teens , so to be more relatable to the demographic the character are teens too
Very true. Thats why so much anime/games take place either in highschool or with high-school aged characters.
...which is still bad for BluAka since it's a gambling product that should probably be heavily regulated on that basis, but for a completely different reason and due to actual harm being done in reality.
@@DistractedGlobeGuy You don't need to spend money , that is the loop hole
@@emilianotype-g6877 You don't "need" but you're highly incentivised to.
Also the loli thing, if the character isn't explicitly a minor, then you are the one with the mind broken enough to make the connection of cp and loli
Explicitly minor or not, there's a reason why most of the world's child protection laws explicitly specify that CP only applies to actual recordings and in art that is indistinguishable from real life. They're not there to discourage enjoyment of that sort of thing, but to prevent people who can't consent to be exploited. It's similar to why cow f*cking is illegal in most of the world. They can't consent either. It has nothing to do with furries themselves, and the laws are deliberately designed to allow for such things as long as they don't involve non-consenting actors.
Yeah like firstly they forgot that most VAs for the Loli are in their 30s
Secondly it still confused me that there are alot of people who can't tell the difference between a real child and a cartoon characters
for visual media the presentation is more important than the lore. If I draw a picture of a juicy sirloin steak and there's a footnote somewhere explaining that it's actually some cleverly disguised asparagus, a vegan still isn't going to want to look at it because the visuals are of meat.
@@dustlight1762 People who make the arguments are generally either uninformed and just making a knee-jerk reaction, or are contrarians fishing for internet points and a chance to cause actual harm to another person.
And most people arguing this point online are in the latter group since they're the only ones who will get into the argument more than once.
based take on fictional art
but crusading on loli stuff when you do loli stuff is like how people would turn in other people for being gay when they were gay
Yeah like Imams in the Middle East.
I don't care for the idea of a toggle to censor content for a game. It feels too much like a way to developers to get lazy and just say "Let's just not have it the content in."
Lolis are 2D. The mentally ill crowd can fuck off, especially when they can't distinguish between fiction and reality
There's only ever been two arguments against not just loli, but really any attraction, first being the idea that normalization leads to increased harm, which is a debunked and entirely inaccurate premise. People assert it as though it's just true, but don't understand that in every case where content of a particular type is legalized or less stigmatized, abuse rates based on that attraction go down. It points out that stigmatization of demoralized people leads to sending the attraction underground, and also an increased risk of self-harm and harm to those of a target attraction. Banning something doesn't suddenly and magically make people with those attractions disappear, you just reduced their incentive to abide by the law or by any ethical standard (such as attractions not the same as actions) when it comes to handling their sexual attractions.
The second argument is moral grandstanding, which falls flat on its face immediately when you apply the same logic to any other attraction/sexuality, an attraction is an immutable characteristic, we knew this even before people tried to conduct "gay therapy" on homosexuals through psychiatry and other more "shocking" methods. Calling an attraction immoral is the equivalent to calling someone with that immutable characteristic as inherently immoral. This allows puritan zealots to conduct a wide censorship of ideas they're disgusted and/or offended by, but in reality disgust and offense are not viable tools for dictating morality.
bruh im so glad my two favorite vtubers watch rev
Make censorship optional, and call it streamer mode. Everyone wins.
Until developers under a crunch realise they're required to make a streamer version, but nobody's requiring them to make the NSFW version.
Congratulations, you've reinvented the Hayes Code and now your medium will stagnate and lose thirty years of progress.
I don't know about you guys, but I ain't ever seen the Punisher go after a guy just for liking lolis.
i think the options arguement could have included to have censorship options for streaming and content creation purposes, because like i know places like twitch and youtube isn't cool with nudity and nudity is becoming more present in games nowadays
actually TH-cam and twitch is okay with nudity specially if is the specific thing, advertising companies and the people blackmailing those companies are the ones that don't like nudity
okay, i should have phrased it as "advertisers aren't cool with it" but i decided to just say youtube/twitch instead@@yokai1235
Streamer modes are already a thing mate
There's actually a lot of nudity in youtube, you just have to know how to search it
Reminder: Drawings aren't real. They don't want your sympathy for them.
THEY ARE REAL TO ME!
I don't think they would even if they were. Especially since most anime characters are _very_ headstrong.
This is such a weird debate. I'm a lamia enjoyer to be honest and I wouldn't want to have a big internet debate about how weird it is, because someone asked another person to draw something another likes and this weirded out someone. Whoa. It's how people are. I don't go to another tag to start a debate on how weird I find their stuff.
3:38
But Kirscha, how else are Internet personalities going to moral grandstand without it?
Is pippa saying she is okay with a burka toggle for women in video games for saudi arabian audiences?
TBH, nothing wrong with that, as long as the devs think it fits their vision. Would of course hit somewhat different to see a game taking place in berlin or new york only having islamic garb wearing women.
Women toggle
@@redactado266turn all the women into goats.
I hate how people are complaining about fictional characters
PFTTT ikr people care about characters who can never thank them cuz they aren’t real they’re a bit lost in the head I think hehe
fun fact: Shadman is back, and considering his new artwork, zero fucks given
Well if I recall correctly he was arrested for assualt and not his art so doubt he was given incentive to not continue as normal. This was years ago I heard this tho so 🤷♂️
It would make more sense to ban games because obviously you're murdering virtual people there.
Why more sense? People enjoying loli are not (usually) of a mindset to hurt anyone, including the virtual characters, who have been created in a way that's quite different than real people.
Huh? How can you make that arguement? You just seem incredibly biased and looking for a scapegoat. I'm not even bringing anything against loli here, just your comments about how games are somehow different in a worse way. You're murdering virtual people, yes... And in loli content, nobody looks at it sexually? I really don't get what you're trying to say here.
Loli enjoyed aren't of the mindset to hurt anyone. Okay. And people who play violent games are of the mindset to hurt people? Seriously, what are you talking about?
This is an extremely silly stance to make, because you're arguing against your own side. The same nonsense arguments you use against games can be used in the exact way for loli stuff. To think it doesn't is just completely closed and biased thought.
Imagine if people banned fighting games cuz you are hurting game characters. This is so dumb.
“It gives me the Ick”
Is all they have to say.
"It looks like a child"
"Its a depiction"
"Its potraying pred bait"
"Its bad cuz media literacy"
"Its still of a child, fictional or not"
"Its a alternative to cp"
"I dont care, its weird and degenerate"
""
Any other moral outrage spittle and thought terminating cliches they muster.
Be it from the left or right spectrum.
@@darkzeroprojects4245 all those things are true. Stop trying to excuse pedophilia
@@sebyah_carbonate
Pedophilia is liking real children.
You can't say they like children just off of that.
If anything, most people who have fought against it were the ones found to have cp
If you ask from me loli is quite wide term in the style of drawing characters. Most of vtubers are drawn so.
That comes from the fact that big part of anime/manga characters start from school settings, because older characters don't have life anymore, they can't have an adventure. Just do your job and drink till you die.
So the drawing style has evolved like this.
One of the reasons why I like older anime more... Settings and styles are differing.
Nowadays people use that same style for older characters in grown-up settings, or just simplifies it even more.
I just look for good and sweet atmosphere.
Some characters are easy tells, and you can cross out some settings just because.
Shit is just dark, I'm not into kinks.
Gintama jokes about how their characters look the same, but blames it on Shinpachi.
You either have old people and "kids", the challenge is to fill out the middle part, because it requires work on the settings and story, so that "the light" that is being reflected off by the characters would make them seem more mature as they are able to deal with heavier setbacks. Then you can say they are adults, even if not stated by anything but maybe their starting point in the story.
Then there are just clear shots which are just kid characters...
“one speaks about the fence, the other about the fenceposts”
Didn't Nux and another dude make a reaction video to the previous works of the Nagatoro Author?
yeah pretty sure it was him and noble
it was nux and noble from lost pause
I love when Kirsche talks she turns from depressed to gremlin
"Sexualizing small body type is weird"
"Sexing a bear is weird"
Bunch of Freaks debating online which brand of their craziness are the holier.
What about bear cubs? Furries have a category for that literally called Cub.
@@FaolanHart
That is just loli with extra O w O steps.
Interesting talk where they see the point of all sides and converse in search for an answer, instead of acting as they just had it.
Goddamn It Nux. Learn something new everyday.
As a Blue Archive player, I don't think I see the point Kirsche is trying to make. None of the characters look super old, and most look their age. There are a few exceptions, with girls like Shun and Rio, who we don't even know how old they are, but they're still classified as students even though they don't look it. But I'm pretty sure those types of girls are a minority and most look the way a student should look. The 11 year old Kirsche mentioned does actually look 11, so I really don't get why she even mentioned her. And she kinda makes it sound like every underage anime girl should look like a loli, but that doesn't really make sense. 17 is underage, and there's nothing weird about 17 year olds being more developed.
I was quite confused on that one too tbh. If someone like Rebecca or tatsumaki is a Loki then I'd say like 75-80% percent of the characters from BA fall into the Loli catergory. Not to mention, I'm fairly sure in the game the age of the characters isn't important to them being lolies, as I'm 90% sure Hina is 17 (ain't gonna check that rn) and there are bustier and bigger characters, like Ako, under that age mark (it's fiction, after all).
Kirsche just casually drops some lore on us.
I have found the only people that get upset about lolis are the people that can’t separate fiction and reality. Either that or low IQ.
Fiction effects your reality and id perfer to soend as much time away from lolicons as possible because loli normalizes this type of attraction
@@askandanswer1503 found the midwit
@askandanswer1503
So, does that include violence? What about alcohol and drugs?
@@Enchie yeah? Violent video games were proven multiple times not to cause violence, and the release of things like breaking bad didn’t cause a nationwide meth production or usage.
@dudebro26
Same with lolis. Why would fictional cartoons turn people into pedophiles, but violent movies and video games wouldn't?
I don't think i subscribe to the whole "toggle" argument. If it's of the original design philosophy to include one, then whatever, add what you want, but i think it goes against the artistic intent in a lot of places. The sexuality of Skull Girls, the violence of GTA, and the challenge of Dark Souls are a part of their presentation. Im not against accessibility options, add shit like controller support and button remapping, but taking away intrinsic elements to these games' artistic intentions just feels like pandering. Sometimes, a game isn't made for you. A kid shouldn't be playing DOOM. If you don't like oversexualized characters, then why are you playing Senran Kagura? If all you do is play chill simulator games and gachas, don't complain to me that youre having trouble in Elden Ring. If you can't stand blood and death, then why are you playing Ghost of Tsushima? You can judge how the games USE these things, like discuss when something feels unfair or too far, but to remove those elements because "i dont like it" feels insulting.
I agree you shouldn't be flashbanged by controversial topics, and while I'm not big on content warnings it's a decent way of safeguarding especially people especially sensitive to certain things due to trauma, but these games are usually pretty forthcoming with what their whole deal is, and this extends to things like movies and books. There's a rating on the box for that reason, lol. The only use for those toggles to me is either for convenience for streaming games to get around TOS or to have people consume art in a fairly surface level and passive way. One is more for marketting and the other is for broad appeal over genuine expression. As someone who loves to create and loves taking in other people's work, it saddens me that censorship (even optional censorship) is being pushed as simply a net positive here. There's some benefits, mainly in profit, and if it's unobtrusive then it'd hardly affect me since i just wouldnt engage with it, but i think most people would take the "safer" option over engaging with the art on its level, leading to normalizing that lack of media literacy and increase the volume of marketable safe cookie cutter shit so people don't have to go through that step of revising and censoring. It costs a lot to comb through cutscenes to put in black bars, remove blood, retool animations, and reblance encounters. If a company is going to make a game, why invest in projects that would need all those extra safeguards when we could just make another FIFA? It's that reason I think even presenting the option will lead to some regression. Hell i could be wrong but this is strictly my opinion on things.
TL;DR
I think censorship to appease a market over artistic intent in anyform is antithetical to art as a whole. If that censorship is a part of that intent, thats just a branch if the creators vision and has a right to be there. You know what youre getting into with most games, so if you dont like it, just dont engage with it. Dont force change on them to suit your taste and the toggle isnt a good answer to the problem at hand, which is people just dont know when to engage with something and when to leave it alone.
To be fair, sometimes games have a lot of elements one really enjoys and a particular one a player doesn't. How critical a particular element is should be up to the dev, not some 3rd party company pushing an agenda.
An example that comes to mind for me where this is reasonable is gears of war turning down the blood/gore. I appreciated the visceral nature of the violence depicted, it really fits the game's setting. However, by the time I was in 50th+ multiplayer match, I turned it off just so I could see the screen better after taking an opponent out close range...in rare circumstances, that mattered for gameplay. I'd have still played and enjoyed the gears games if the option to do that wasn't available, but I appreciated having this option too.
Depending on what experience the devs and players value (gritty depiction vs slightly more player agency in competitive MP), either setting could be considered better. IMO, for stuff like this if the devs don't feel strongly that it impacts the game experience much, the toggle option makes sense.
In contrast, a difficulty setting in something like Dark Souls would necessarily directly influence the game's design and ultimately its quality. The final product as it was delivered would have to be sacrificed in at least some capacity to add one...with the obvious caveat that the series bakes in numerous ways to make it easier to clear them w/o strong reaction times or memorizing boss move sets fully etc. Over-leveling/upgrading, summons, upgrading multiple weapons and using easiest ones in fights, buff stacking, shield blocking, these things all influence how much raw input skill is required. On the extreme end, a player was able to win a challenge in Elden Ring where they could full-clear the game (including Malenia) without rolling to dodge at all, just tanking all the hits. Obviously, that required intimate knowledge of the game...but it's hard to make a case that once you have said knowledge, the mechanical challenge is still as high as fighting normally. Again, putting a slider into the game negates all of these alternatives, and the devs didn't include it for a good reason.
TL DR is that sometimes toggles make sense and sometimes they would damage the experience too much.
I'm more confused when it's a fictional dwarf who has literal body of a child, they're okay with it. and it's realistic art as well, so what's up with that? I will never understand westerners
I don't even know who these two are but they sound very based.
When you start drawing real people, then you start involving real people. That's why it can be abusive if it's a real person that you drew.
>shadman
Yeah shadman is unforgivable, and no lolicon should like him
0:47 I find it far more weird when people give a grown adult look to a child than give a grown adult the looks of, at least a teenager.
2:34 Glad that these people are still equating ped to looks, not age. Definitely not some skeletons in the closet there.
Its funny too, because there is a youtuber, General sso, who meets the most extreme version of that body type. Is she not allowed to be an adult because of her looks? Will the man she marries always be shamed as a ped?
Can characters that look like kindergardeners look weird? Yeah.
4:41 It seems like they are trying to water it all down. Knownly or not.
5:19 I lived in Japan. Most of the girls in their early to mid 20s could look 14 if they just wore certain clothes/makeup.
If it's most 20 year olds, they don't "look" 14. You just have a skewed/biased perception of what a 14 year old should look like, especially in a different country where people have different genetics.
@@pdpgb ... "could look" just went right past you?
Thank you for reiterating my point about how in anime, that body type isn't indicative of young age, which is why it is attached to that time stamp.
@@lifeline_ Yes because I didn't think it was particularly relevant. Teens these days wear "sexy" clothes all the time so if an actual 20 year old wore the same thing and you couldn't tell the difference, my point stands.
And you're the one who said 14 so imagine how much more true that is for 16 and 17 year olds. Which happens to be how old the girls in Blue archive are.
@@pdpgb never said anything about that style of clothing nor did I make a point in that direction, so it is irrelevant.
Again, just reiterating my point for no reason.
@@lifeline_ I am disagreeing with your point that most 20 year old women in Japan "look like they're 14". If most of them look like that than by definition that's what a 20 year old looks like in Japan.
You're starting with some preconceived notion of what a 14 year old is suppose to look like and then imposing that on a different culture and people that it clearly doesn't apply too.
It's the same thing people are doing with the Stellar blade girl. Claiming she "looks like a child" or "unrealistic" even though she closely resembles the adult Korean model she's based on. It's very foolish and borders on racism. Implying that Asian girls don't look how they're "suppose to".
You brought the clothes point up even though I initially ignored it because it didn't seem relevant. So why are you crying now that I responded to it? So weird.
8:26 I’m sorry what
okay im not the only one cause WHAT
I need to contact her mom... for purely legal reasons.
My stance on loli stuff is the same now as it's always been. They're drawings. Its not real. Nobody's getting hurt and frankly I find people treating drawings on the same level of seriousness as actual CP to be disgusting. It's literally downplaying actual child victims of predators and it just makes you look weird.
The drawing will not magically come to life and thank you for protecting its non existent rights. You just look like a Schizo treating a bunch of lines and color on a piece of paper as a real person.
What I also find funny on the topic is people act like you acknowledging its a drawing means that you can't find it weird. Nobody said you can't find loli art weird. Because, news flash for the zoomers, art was made to be provocative. You're SUPPOSED to feel something when looking at a drawing. Rather its comfort or discomfort. You're not in the wrong for feeling a certain way about a drawn character. It's when you start treating the fictional character as a real person is where the vast majority of normal people will draw the line.
no body is getting hurt? so when i express that i was abused at 9 and then people send me loli con to trigger me thats not hurting anyone? idc what a picture thinks, i care the artist behind it has naked children for references. i care that the AI tags people use to get "the best loli AI art" has puberty, toddler and infant in it. i will die on this hill. its not weird its disgusting, youre downplaying the fact someone thinks a childs figure is arousing and drew it, posted it for others to get off to or send to victims of CSA.
@@Chocolatemilkpro 1. No loli artist has naked references that'd be an actual crime you sperg.
2. If you trauma-dumped that you got molested and then people took advantage that's on you, you're on the internet, why would you do that?
3. You're equating real abuse to pixels on a screen, by all means die on that hill but keep it to twitter you freak.
@@ChocolatemilkproI'm _sure_ that happened
@@Zerarick it did. i was apart of a HPRP gmod server and the dev, his name is zero posted loli porn in staff chat. i told him why i dont wanna see it in staff chat and he said oh well and proceeded to say i was a fragile leftist snowflake and sent me pic after pic of AI lolicon. you can find out about this by looking up the bub games video and switching comments to new. their server just got nuked by some gmod hacker guy. but go on, tell me about my CSA experience.
ok bro i just madea fanart of your favourite loli character black and trans
Based. I wish people could tell the difference between fantasy and reality... I also wish people would put even half of the time and effort going after actual crimes against actual people that they do in going full SJW mode over a fictional character. The cartoons rights are not being violated, the cartoon is not suffering an endless hell of body and mind, put your efforts toward the REAL problems we have. You dislike it, great, don't consume it. I despise and completely do not understand and utterly think foot fetishes are disgusting, deranged, red flag and unsafe, insane for anyone.. so I avoid it.
I wholly agree with Pippa and Kirsche; let ME choose what I am and am not exposed to in films, games, etcetera. Like, mad respect to Larian for how they handled it in BG3.. you choose.. you got toggles, you have SFW mode.. hell like RL you even have layered clothing options.... rock on with your chaste and pure gaming.. meanwhile, my barbarian gonna rock out with no sock out.
I think describing it as a debate or discussion is giving it too much credit. I don't have a dog in this race but it's an internet slapfight that's been around for at least 20 years and I've yet to see a coherent civil discussion.
we try to have cuvil discussion but then antis appear
It's not even a slap fight, it's more like a sperg autistically chimping out because the sane person has a different opinion.
Nux is always insufferable
I like to imagine anime characters skeletons 💀
A lot of anime characters, lolis in particular, I wouldn't even consider them "human"
But that's all academic since ANIME CHARACTERS AREN'T REAL PEOPLE, THEY DON'T NEED PROTECTION FROM IRL HUMAN TRAFFICKING OR LEGAL PROTECTION.
i have a GREAT EXAMPLE! no Russian. before the mission the game asks you if you want to play and partake in the slaughter of innocent people. it gives you the option to SKIP it. its important to the story, but you can skip it and move on. (call of duty by the way)
also anyone that thinks anime is cp, needs to ACTUALLY stop real cp from happening, rather than bitching about cartoons.
@@edt3594 But then what would they fap to, or send to all their underage kittens on Discord?
1:58 oh no
Censored GTA is just a Lego Game, Lego City specifically. The reason I'd argue against toggles is because for younger children there are more than enough less violent alternatives already
but children hate those alternatives
To hell with them kids
@@yokai1235 bruh , when i was i child if i protest i get a slaper to the face , like i don't like the mentally that children can do what ever they want if they protest a lot , like that is why we get adults that get really angry and violents if they don't get what they want
Esrb ratings are fine as they are. Parents should complain on Twitter less, parent more.
@@UTO7 but you really expect those failures as parents do parenting instead of complain on twitter ?
The problem with "options" is scope creep. Stuff doesnt need to be for everyone and thats fine, there is no "perfect soup" only " perfect soupS".
"Why develop _both_ an SFW _and_ NSFW version is we're _required_ to produce the SFW and _not required_ to make NSFW?"
Great video and loli debate is just like video games make people violent. Because people play video games to live a fantasy and that the same thing with loli. Also, considering it's rare but people who are child sexual abuse victims have been recommended by their therapist loli art to help them.
5:32 I get what Pippa is getting at, a lot of people who do this are being patronizing towards east asian cultures when they say stuff like this, but my understanding is in Japan (idk about other cultures) the average person has a clearer understanding of the boundary between fiction and reality. Fictional stuff is enjoyed on its own terms to the point that when a major anime movie director made the decision to make some characters speak in a more natural, conversational tone rather than sounding like a character it was considered against the grain.
With that in mind, I think the odds of a western lolicon being interested in commiting certain crimes is higher than an eastern lolicon. Over here there's been a rise in fiction influencing people's tastes irl, and I've watched the shift take place as a somewhat terminally online westerner myself.
The average person here does too. Online discourse does not match what you get when you just talk to people at work or school or w/e. Granted I haven't gone around polling people about this topic, but from what little I've heard about it seems the normies I know are think or are most likely to think it's a weird fetish and toss it in the same mental bin as people into feet, adult diapers or similar as long as nobody real is involved. And unlike some other normie takes, that's probably fair? Statistically, it is weird in the sense that I doubt it's a big % of people into it.
My associations are likely biased though. Most people I talk to for any length of time have some solid degree of rationality and are capable of conditional hypotheticals, so I can't speak for what a truly "average" person would think or how they'd react. Probably still not like the twitter mobs though, those are a special kind of ill.
I'm not sure about the west *generally* changing via fiction, beyond the political fights over it reflecting everyone to go nuts.