Rabbi Friedman You Created A Commotion Online...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2024
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A conversation with Rabbi Yitzchok Botton as he asks some hard-hitting questions to TH-cam's Most Popular Rabbi the one and only Rabbi Manis Friedman.
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Happy to be listening to this beautiful conversation!
We need to have the continuation of this great discussion. This is so thought provoking.! Thank you.
Hes great, Rabbi Friedman!!!!!!!😊
So beautifully. What a pleasure of listening. Thank you
A delightful and informative conversation. Thank you Rabbi.
I enjoyed the back and forth. I watched it from beginning to end, and wanted more. Very thought provoking.
Thanks Rabbi Yoni!
What do you tell a person that wants to commit suicide? The answer is, God needs you and wants you here.
Yes, I heard the story with R' Friedman Absolutely amazing. I think making a video of that story would be a great idea.
all the best
incredible, watching this real time discussion is truly groundbreaking. need more of this from all rabbis. yasher koach
God is the first last and everything, the whole reason for us being here is because he needs us to be alive for his reason.. he made us...I make the most of my life through him because he needs me here or I wouldn't exist.. I personally with my spirit in the state it's in would prefer to not be here, that's sad I know but I have a heavy heart most of the time..I rely on god for things that without him I wouldn't receive but wouldn't need without him and I know this in the back of my mind all the time but he always comes through for me, i don't always get what I want but god knows what I need for him to keep me ready, steady and go.
Being alive we rely on him because he made us we wouldn't exist without god's need for us.
Like we have children to exalt the earth, keep the planet or "playground" going ... We don't need children really for ourselves, god needs us to have children, it's the hardest thing I've ever been a mother but I put my all into it because god needs me too for him, our children rely on us but we created them first out of a need (god's need) also a built-in need from god for us, lead by a false sense of security that children bring joy.. then they get here and all they do is complaine and moan, that's not what I personally signed up for but it's the independent animal instinct isn't it and yet ever so rewarding actually!
Children do actually bring a lot of joy, joking aside... it's the perfect balance of good and bad.. and we look after them until they're 18 🤔 then they can rely on god then without us, but we as parents will always be here out of default it's a beautiful never ending tapestry..
This is my own understanding and what I've always felt.. Mr rabbi Friedman solidified it and god sent me rabbi Friedman at the perfect time in my existence!
Glory to god in the highest and a major shout out and thank you to Rabbi Manis Friedman!
💜
PS sorry for all the adjectives but it is coming from the heart and I felt it necessary!
Yoni, one of your best uploads yet!!! This hits on so many essential points in one condensed conversation. Keep it up!!!
I appreciate that!
God wants us, not need. Need implies dependency, dangerous words..
You are correct only when applied to a human. But a Divine want/desire and/or need does not imply
Dependency because God is perfect and the need itself is created by God.
I can hear the influence R' Yoel Kahn's methods of analysis on Rabbi Friedman's thinking and powers of articulation, and it's geshmak.
הכל כל כך פשוט!!!!! אנחנו סתם מסבכים ענינים פשוטים!!!!
He just gave sources he is answering now!!!!
Not only essential for yiddishkeit, but essential for humankind.
The Rabbi, it seems to me, has not considered the traditional view that people are a chelik Elokim memaal - in effect - allowing us to be considered a "part of G-d". Hence, as a part of G-d,, it turns out that we also have needs. Now, the Rabbi's claim can be considered in the light of this concept.
Interesting, You bring up an excellent point.
But I think that he means on a lower level we have no real need, because God could have not created us and never given us this chelek Elokah. But regarding this chelek, Either we must say according to his approach will be considered part of God's needs so to speak, or on that level and post creation it is a real need of ours.
Basically your question may have refuted R' Friedman's claim. I will need to look more into it and ask other rabbis.
I hope this helps, all the best
R Botton
sorry this video has blown me away, haven't ever seen this online. please do more of this
bs"d this conversation is priceless
Botton!! Great Rav!
GOD is Faithful
You are my witnesses says Hashem, (Isaiah 43:10) He wants us to testify to His presence on this world.
@@eliebenzaquen4947 lol, as he walks around, y’all laugh at him and try to trick him.
We have to keep in mind the following.
Although Hashem needs us, he's not dependent on that need. Hashem would be perfectly fine without having created the world or us. His need is just a creation he created whereby he is not dependent on it whatsoever.
Gods need = he's not dependent on it.
Human need = it's essential to us, We are dependant on it.
You are wrong
I think your statement is correct, not like the other reply.
@@torahinsights3506 you “think”, while God “knows”.
@@mjkcon
If you are really sincere and want to learn respond to me and I'll give you 5 sources to discuss with a real rabbi about - and with God's help you will learn and understand.
Yes, God Knows and you don't know but talk too much. The first comment is correct.
This is a basic and accepted Jewish idea - unfortunately ignorant people can say whatever nonsense they want in these comments and it counts as a vote for one side.
How can you ascribe a NEED to G-D, since by definition, it implies a LACK of something, and that's IMPOSSIBLE for G-D.
Unless, of course you say that he CREATED his own lack, which preceded the creation of Man.
The above illustrates what is probably the ESSENCE of self-awareness and that is the WILL of the Creator - described by the tautology: I am that I am and I want what I want!
Rabbi Friedman is INCORRECT and his assertion that man does not NEED or LACK anything. We are NOT assured or reassured of our existence from moment to moment! We are only a heartbeat away from oblivion!
Very good question, and yes these or self created needs that only apply to how God relates to creation.
Again, man trying to figure out Elohim. It is written HE wanted to eliminate the people of IsraEL when HE took them out of Mitzrayim and if it wasn’t for Moshe, HE would had done it. So how can anyone be convinced that HE needs us ?
Bmdbr 23:19
A purpose is not a need, an objective is not a need
What if God doesn't want his food rotten
you are lacking in both Jewish philosophy and even more in Kabbalah.
For God His wants are his purpose and his purpose becomes a self-created need - but of course He is complete with or without all this.
There is 10 seconds you have the answer - now go and study it - like Hillel says.
all the best
@omarschez4706
you are lacking in both Jewish philosophy and even more in Kabbalah.
For God His wants are his purpose and his purpose becomes a self-created need - but of course He is complete with or without all this.
There is 10 seconds you have the answer - now go and study it - like Hillel says.
all the best
What/where is the sicha mentioned at the end, Yifkod hashem?
Chelek Chof Gimmel Parshas Pinchas 2nd sicha
We live for others I don't live for myself. God the eternal needs us because God created us. I can now come to God and ask, G-d what do u need from us or from me?
I exist but when I help others to better themselves then I live not only exist
good point,
Please give us continuation
@@dinushblau4247 only God can give you continuation 😆
WHY DOESN'T MR FREEDMAN NEVER BRING SOURCES TO THE THINGS HE SAYS?🤔
You want him to bring every chassidut source in the library of 770?
Half these books you never heard or not able to find...much less read.
But the ideas are universal.
Even his books lack sources. His teachings are extremely confusing and according to leading Rabbis, flat out heretical.
@@TheNationofIsrael613 he is Rabbi Friedman to hundreds of thousand.. you are no diiferent. Mechuzof.
@@TheNationofIsrael613that’s not an answer, it’s a copout
He should learn Sefer Mamaarim תרעט seudas simchas Torah where the rebbe Rashab says outright that Torah and Jews are rooted in atzmus. There is another place (I’m looking for it) where the Rebbe Rashab says both are rooted in g-d but g-d still had a choice not to express his essence in this regard since he is the Baal haratzon
This is R Botton. I will try and look up the source you mentioned your comment.
I have a lot to learn when it comes to understanding the depth of Chabad Chassidut. But in my opinion, the end of your comment about essence (Atsmut) and Baal HaRatzon from the Rebbe Rashab is what I was trying to say in this video.
According to my understanding, Bal HaRatzon is the same as Atsmut as Rabbi Friedman explains it. Having a choice to express (reveal) or not reveal essence (Atsmut) is the same as saying pre and post Tzimtzum - because in order for Atzmut to be revealed it must be through Tzimtzum, and only after Tzimtzum is there anything definable in terms that creation can grasp.
I think that the different schools of thought use different terms to identify the same or similar concepts.
For example, as I understand it Baal HaRartzon as R’ Yitzchak Isaac Chaver uses the term is the same as Ein Sof before tzimrzum in the Writings of the Arizal.
Kol tuv
@@rabbiyitzchakbotton3764 thanks for responding and taking the time to seek clarity on the source of R’ Manis’s thoughts which are no doubt rooted in Chabad chassidus. In short, no doubt Manis Friedman will point you to clear statements of the Rebbe on the subject(definitely even clearer than the source I gave. I came across it so I happened to mention it). I see why you say that about the Baal haratzon, but the context there as I recall it is that Torah and Mitzvos are rooted in atzmus umehus so if so did he have a choice to create or not? So he writes that Hashem is Kol Yachul and even though these things are part of his very being he still has override power(I.e a loose use of the term Baal haratzon)
Also stam, some juicy pages and footnotes about atzmus and the Jewish relationship with him in Likkutei Sichos vol 12 Parshas Tazria second sicha (you will know when u see it)
Ok on thanks for explaining.
I think all of this starts with Aliyat HaRatzon which Bal HaRatzon is what bH is before this point and the earlier Kabbilists did not speak much about this. My
Question to R Friedman is how do we know that Torah Mitzvot and Yisrael existed before aliyat HaRatzon without a source saying so - because it is possible and logical to say that these things begin with aliyat harartzon
@@rabbiyitzchakbotton3764 i think the answer to your question is simple: he is getting it from Chabad chassidus. As to the sense of it and how it works in explanation, the short of it I would say is that G-d is not FOR anything. As a cup, for example, is FOR drinking. Hashem has no tachlis. In g-ds essence even teva hatov lheitiv doesn’t quite work(as to say so would be to say that there is something yoser klalus than him namely g-dly nature of which he partakes of). But something which is not FOR anything is infinitely self-sufficient and self-interested (as it has no direction towards something outside of it). A random desire, as manis Friedman will often point out, isn’t fitting. “So ur saying G-d wants things he doesn’t need? That’s petty”. The desire for Hashem to make a dira is thus an extension of his own self interest and being. If he is not directed outward what else could it be? Since the point of a home is to have a space for one’s essence it has to be nogeh to his essence(like Chazal say “ a man without a home is no man”). Baal haratzon means the essence of who he is takes the form of ratzon, not that the whole shaychus starts then. After all where did he get the ratzon from if not himself? G-d in essence is not stripped of ratzon and only added artificially afterwards, rather, as chassidus says, atzmus is shleimusa d’koola. It’s only that in atzmus they are so united with his being that they are not separate or recognizable. They are like a ray in the sun. So it cannot, at that time, be called ratzon
That said, since the real dira is in the heart of every Jew (v’shechanti bSochom) a Jew is really rooted in atzmus(thus his love of another is really love of himself, for what else is worthy of love? G-d is the perfection of all things. The best thing to have is more g-d). As a side point this is also the deeper meaning of the hayom yom of the heretic asking if g-d is so great why didn’t he make another g-d to which the rebbe maharash says “he did, he made a Jew”
Incredible conversation! Can we please hear the rest?
As one who knows some Chassidus I beg you. Just say HaShen REALLY WANTS!
The word NEED is problematic in this context, It’s really not simple.
Please R’ Mannis. stop This NEED campaign.
Is it one of the 13 principles of faith?!
Did the Rebbe make such statements?
It’s clearly not OIFFEN HAMISKABEL.
Before or after Timtzum. What benefit is it to confuse people?
Better Talk about moshiach.
GREAR RABBIS for over a thousand years have used the term need - a Divine need, self created for and within creation.
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna
Krishna Krishna
Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama
Rama Rama
Hare Hare
This man has invented a new religion…
its called chassidus
No he hasn't, he's just explaining things that you haven't learned.
And he's talking to people that aren't religious and sometimes people that don't even believe God.
Yeah but I thought this idea was already created by people called gnostics
@@jojogoodman-hp5qg it's called learning chassidus
@@davidgoldloans is this not in the same category of the gnostic
My opinion its a disgrace.
When manis friedmann is saying " hashem needs ud" People pounce on his statement like vultures. No mention of other things he has to teach. Now let's get some likes.
I am listening Manis for many many years.
From the questioning we can see, that the interviewer does not even understand for a second the meaning of it.
Rabbi Botton,
At the beginning of your video you and Manis pick up in a discussion from a specific tractate of Shas that you have been discussing prior to the video and refer to the phrase from a page there with an expression that sounds like “נינו ליגמרו” as an obvious proof of how G-d needs us more than we need Him.
What specific tractate and page are you both referring to?
Also, what was the exact phrase that Manis said?
Thank you for any clarification you can offer.
R Friedman was saying that the rabbis concluded that mankind was better off if not created. I myself need to look this up, as you can see from the video I thought it was a reference to when mankind fails to fulfill its purpose - he was saying that it was an absolute statement not only when we fail at our purpose. I didn't pursue the point because I remember clearly what he was referring to.
Either way I said prior that because we accept and want to remain alive we also need God - but I realize that point of mine wasn't clear in the video, but it is my current opinion. I believe that both are true we need God and God needs us because He chose to create the world that way - it is a self created need which doesn't detract from God's perfection in any way.
I hope this is helpful
All the best
and if I remember I will try and give you a source to that gemara when I find it.
@@rabbiyitzchakbotton3764 I understand fully what he is trying to say. But both he and you made reference to a specific citation for the discussion from a tractate in Shas.
I have searched the specific phrase that it sounded like. It is not in Shas Bavli or Yerushalmi.
That means either I heard it incorrectly, or Manis didn’t quote it accurately or it doesn’t exist.
Since he is the one receiving heat for his statement that HaKadosh, baruch Hu needs us, bringing a support that is the opinion of all, or at least the majority, in support of his statement is a high priority.
I asked you for the specific citation and your reply so far doesn’t supply it.
With respect, I await your answer providing what both you and Manis seemed to know in this video.
With blessings for good only…
@@jimdeane3667 Sorry I didn't look for this earlier - This is the gemara he mentioned: "תנו רבנן: שתי שנים ומחצה נחלקו בית שמאי ובית הלל, הללו אומרים: נוח לו לאדם שלא נברא יותר משנברא, והללו אומרים: נוח לו לאדם שנברא יותר משלא נברא. נמנו וגמרו: נוח לו לאדם שלא נברא יותר משנברא, עכשיו שנברא יפשפש במעשיו". (בבלי, עירובין יג, ב)
But this idea was not discussed in direct relation to the point of if it is ok to say God needs us - it was in connection to R Friedman's statement - that we don't really need God because according to him we don't need to exist. He therefore referenced the above gemara to support his position.
Either way I would not explain the idea as he does - when I explain it I teach that we obviously need God and that God also needs us in as much as He relates to creation. According to Kabbalah our mitzvot help to build up the realm of holiness and Divinity above.
All the best and thanks for your interest in this video
@@jimdeane3667 I don't understand how these comments work, I sent you a long response with the source you asked for, did you get it? because I don't see it showing up now. Instead I see a response to someone else.
here is the source again עירובין יג ע"ב
all the best
@@rabbiyitzchakbotton3764 Yes, thank you. I saw and noted your citation to Eiruvin 13b.
I haven’t had the opportunity to review it closely in the context of Manis’ comments in the video.
But at first glance to its content and your comments to me, it doesn’t sound like much of a support.
Throughout the interview I could hear Vizzini saying: "inconceivable!"
Haha!
Long Live the Lubavitcher Rebbe King Moshiach
He died
This can be resolved through semantics. The word “need” is being used equivocally here. Rabbi Mannis is using the word in a rather loose and misleading way, although with his usual chutzpah he won’t admit it.
I think you are correct - but the truth is that Jewish philosophers and Kabbalists totally agree with this - so it's not so much chutspa - he just likes to speak in his own words instead of sourcing what he says - but there are sources.
@@divinewisdomliveabetterlif3511 But Moses Maimonides what not have agreed though, right? And he is _the_ Jewish philosopher.
@@bayreuth79 You bring up a very good point.
In short when mentioning God Maimonides was referring to God's essence - but today we commonly differentiate between God's Essence and God's revelations and manifestations. This is clear from the sages of the Talmud as well ---- so what I d=said inn the last comment and this video and others online on this topic would also be correct according to Maimonides as well.
all the best
It's pure and simple logic.
If you have a need then you're not שלם בתכלית השלימות.
You can't say in one sentence that I have a need but I'm not a בעל חסרון
you are absolutely correct! But this only applies to humans.
This video is a continuation of a larger discussion; watch this video 3 export rabbis explain the idea in full according to traditional Jewish sources, philosophy and Jewish Mysticism.
LOOK this up this title on TH-cam: (I'm leaving out the li k because links don't always show up.
Q&A: Is Saying God Needs Us Heretical? Kabbalah Secrets, Philosophy & Why God Created US
To say that because he created us with a purpose then it must be that he needs us applies also only to human.
God can do something with a purpose and still have no need for it.
כי לא מחשבותי מחשבותיכם ולא דרכיכם דרכי נאום השם.
@@chayasimon6816 I did not say that. It is not logical that God needs us, in fact it is logical that God doen't need us, because the fundamentals beliefs about God agreed upon both by traditionalists philosophy and Kabbalah all agree that God is perfect not lacking in any way, not divisible into any parts and not subject to any type of addition in quality. BUT tradition teaches that God decided to create out of a desire to give. He also decided that that creation would be partners in achieving/building its own perfection/reward. In this respect it is accepted by all authorities Jewish leadership from the prophets to the sages to the kabbilists to the leading rabbis of today - that we were both chosen and therefore needed to bring the world and ourselves to perfection, thereby creating, so to speak, our world to come. In this regard we become partners with God, our Creator in, in the final product of creation - and it is in this regard that it is correct to say we are needed, and in other words God needs us because He chose to make the final product of the world to come be dependent on us. He also decided that we are NOT replaceable as stated in the prophets - that we will not be replaced with any other people - so simply put God chose out of His desire to create the world in a way that only through the Jewish people, can the world reach it's Divinely destined perfection, and this regard we are needed by God.
I hope this is helpful
Why can't he just give a straight answer.
Why are there NO sources to prove his view.
This is upsetting.
Show sources that support your statements rabbi
the rabbi is very smart, and he chooses to speak in his own words because he is speaking to people that don't have a background in Judaism.
For a some of what he is saying, the sources are obvious, but for the people that don't know the sources saying them wouldn't help - it is much simpler for him to just say the idea and let people decide if it makes sense to them.
How do I know this is true - BECAUSE when he gives a class to advanced students it's on a much higher level - and in those classes it's clear that this rabbi is a genius.
This is what the Lord says, the King of Israel
and its Redeemer-
the Lord of the Heavenly Armies is his name-
“I am the first and I am the last,
and apart from me there is no God.
Who is like me? Let him proclaim
and declare it, and lay it out for himself-
since he made an ancient people.
And let him speak future events;
let them tell him what will happen.
Don’t tremble, and don’t be afraid.
Didn’t I tell you and announce it long ago?
You are my witnesses.
Is there any God besides me?
There is no other Rock-
I don’t know of any
I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
Where are the Chabad rabbis to speak out against this am ha aretz who's introducing baseless ideas that are in the core of idolatry??? Whwere are the leaders???
I have spoken to lots of rabbis Chabad Litvish Sefardic rabbis that poskim Halacha and that could easily sit on a Beit Din - this is my conclusion based on all of the above:
1) His isn't an Am HaAretz.
2) Most of the clips created and promoted by those 2 rabbis have nothing to do with heresy.
3) The only issue is with the statement of reward & punishment - and this video clearly explains that R' Friedman believes in reward & punishment. His view is that the suffering that a person goes through for sin in today's generation is a rectification (sin causes suffering in gehinum (hell) etc.) But it isn't a punishment because people aren't rebelling willfully so they don't deserve punishment, but they do need to rectify the damage they caused to their soul and the world because of their sins.
4) Although the above isn't not exactly my view on this topic as I stated repeatedly in the video - Based on R' Friedman's statements in the video there is NO LONGER an issue with R' Friedman - he isn't a heretic, his statements are no longer heretical, he is calling what others call punishment rectification - now it is clear everyone agrees - they are just giving it two different terms.
All the best
@@rabbiyitzchakbotton3764 There is something called שכר ועונש Hashem doesn't need rabbis like Friedman to do PR for Him and make it sound like a summer camp... Plus Judaism never got involved in "who" Hashem is... Only in relevance to us. So the idea that G-d "needs" brings about the idea that The Almighty is lacking. I listened to Friedman and he doesn't back himself up like a scholar would... where are his sources??? He's mammash playing with fire!!!
IF YOU ARE HIS GRATEST FAN AND YOU CARE SO MUCH ABOUT HIM, JUST ARRANGE A DEBATE BETWEEN HIM AND RABBI YOSEF MIZRACHI OR RABBI YARON REUVEN OR ALL TOGETHER AND CLARIFY ALL THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL AND STOP THIS DIVISION AMONG US. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
please don't suggest foolish things.
Yaron Reuven isn't qualified to debate anyone on this topic. And it an insult to suggest R Friedman sit together with him.
BUT if you can reach out to R' Mizrachi to debate with R Friedman with R' Botton in the middle maybe that can happen.
I tip for you - just because someone makes a lot of noise - it doesn't make him someone we should listen to. Any real rabbi knows that Reuven is just a noise maker - not a rabbinic opinion.
I mean when a rabbi is clearly looking for clicks and views..he’s gonna try to sound controversial lol
I think the Rabbi is looking for people that feel the truth and sincerity in the Rabbi words and that created lots of clicks.
How did you miss this obvious observational reality and choose to judge the Rabbi harshly?
learn derech hashem by ramchal oy vei
Yes, an essential book on Jewish Hashkafa. According to Rav Yitzchak Brietowitz (in a video on line) the Ramchal would support the idea of God needing us - which means that we are needed by God to help complete ourselves and the world.
Wouldnt this mean that this god is afraid of dying. Or loosing his position.
I don't think so. A self created want and or need does not detract from God's perfection, it is an expression of His Divine perfection.
All the best
Humanity is only still in existence because a covenant was made with our forefathers an th Elohai is an EL that will not lie; thus the prophets had to give us provisions that were NOT good so we may be under grace. The concept is only true in a sense that he's waiting for the 144K hearts and souls of man but mentioned in an eluded through all the scriptures to include the הברית החדשה as well but not everyone reads he renewed covenant.
The 144K that will walk in one accord aligned in spirit and Truth. Beyond that is BLASPHEMY!!!
Spoken like true sabbatean frankist Kabbalist.
fancy terms - I don't believe you even know what they mean
@@divinewisdomliveabetterlif3511 perhaps you don’t?
@@leawilliams8476 all one needs to know is to stay away from it.
@@divinewisdomliveabetterlif3511 if truth is denied with creative avoidance it can create a false reality
its dangerous to play with words of torah
the only reason god created us because he is ultimate good and wants to give good so we are dependent on his good .....
stop making luction out of the words of torah
You are correct - that is what is explained in the writings of the Arizal. Chabad Chassidut explains based on a midrashic teaching that another way to explain why God created the world was to have a dwelling place in this lowest of all worlds together with us. The subtle difference in this midrash lends more to saying thar we are also needed to create this perfect world where God and mankind will dwell together.
Also according to the Kabbalah of the Arizal it is correct to say that God needs us - but in this context it means to help draw new Divine light into the created worlds - It is dependent on our mitzvot to us start this process. It is also the deeper meaning to the Kadish prayer we recite in which we say "May God's great name "GROW" exalted and sanctified..."
all the best
A human brought god down to earth, and your people have abandoned him
what do you mean - who is the human you refer to?
@@torahinsights3506 come to Los Angeles, and see for yourself
Bruh 😂. Take your falsehood somewhere else