Hi Peter, thanks for your time at Makers Central, i was the chap on Saturday on spent more time studying your rail hinge than pretty much anything else at the show. Really excited to see your build on that... have already started mine based on the notes i took at the show. Think theres a huge market out there for people to pay £50 -£80 for yours. It was rock solid. Thanks again for being so generous with your time and kind words.
Hi James, great to meet you too! Ah, so you're *that* guy! 😂 Glad it was of interest, and hope you managed to find a few other things at the show! I'm costing it all out now, and we'll see what we can come up with. 👍
Brilliant comparison, I think the Benchdogs one would suit the majority of people and I personally still can't see why you'd go for the dashboard one if you're in the UK. And as an added bonus, you're supporting a British business. We need more of this!
Thanks Peter for the comparison as it confirms my choice for the BD version. My assembly table will be 3 MFT3 tables joined as Brent woodworking has done. Really looking forward to having it all put together 😎
Thank you for this Peter. I purchased a Festool MFT with their hinge thinking I was getting the best but I wished I’d seen your video first. Anyway, I upgraded my hinge to the Dashboard model because I like the way it can be positioned anywhere on the rail. You do a great job!Please keep up the good work.
Just received my rail hinge from the 9th pre order, it's every bit as good as you say, a true masterpiece of British engineering.well with the hard earned.
Great comparison video, Peter. I could go with either the Benchdogs or the Dashboard and be perfectly happy. Your videos are always top notch and thoroughly enjoyable. There are so so many MFT benchtop build videos to watch. One technique I am unable to find covered on YT, however is when using an Aluminum extrusion to frame your top, no video shows how to build and assemble so that all four corners of the T track extrusions are left open, giving you the utmost access for T track accessories on all four sides, just like the Festool and Dashboard tables. Hope to see you cover this dilemma in one of your fine instructional videos that might show what brackets to use to accomplish this task, using common extrusions like 2040 or 8020 or whatever.
Thanks for the comparison, Peter. It confirmed my suspicion that the Benchdogs one would be the right solution for me. I am just trying to figure out the perfect size MFT slab for the space I have and then I will start with a slab and a couple of trestles before making something a bit more permanent. Or perhaps having a more permanent solution that uses the trestles... BTW the loose tenon jig arrived a few days ago. Planning on giving that a try this weekend. :)
My plan remains: build my own rail hinge system. BUT This new Bench Dogs piece is very tempting. I love the connection method. I almost feel that it would be even better if it were an "either/or" option. If it could be connected to the dog holes OR to a t-slot rail on the side. I didn't get a close enough look at it to see if that could be made possible. But, then again, one might not want to be cutting/grinding/drilling on such a nice accessory. I've rounded up a couple heavy duty ballbearing hinges to weld together and make my own hinge, for the time being. I'll see how long I can live with that. Thanks for the comparison video. Much needed, and much appreciated!
“Unobtanium Plastic” … a great quip in a solid / helpful tool review ! I sooooooo hate changing rail height on the MFT … that I try to cut 3/4” wood most of the time. It shouldn’t be that way.
I always admire what you come up with. I am really intrigued by Benchdogs products, they look like amazing quality and appear to have beautiful functionality. Hope someday to get my hands on some of their offerings for my own review. Thanks for what you do!
Again,loved the subject.I love Festool probably because they were the first to make the hinge guide system.The Jonny come latelys,of course ,would make a better product,albeit more expensive.Your videos are such a breath of fresh air.
Thanks! I think this just proves that the first mover advantage only lasts so long, and you really need to keep developing the product - or others will do it for you. 👍
Dashboard one looks beast. Massive overhang and hella pricey though. Reallly like the BD solution using 2 20mm holes with the quad dog and that it's sized to be in line with their fence system. Very neat. Still using my scraps of aly plate and heavy duty door hinge for mine. Wish I could find a cost effective saleable way to replicate my hinge. Don't know if your saw my vid but I made mine so it rolls down/pulls up from behind the bench. Bit niche for my set up really I suppose. Any way, nice one for the look-see mate.
Cheers Stu! Yes, love your hinge idea with the drop-down stowaway trick! Don’t know if you saw on Instagram but I have my own version in the works - minimal overhang, all controls accessible from the front. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Have you built that hinge yet Peter? I'm looking forward to seeing what you've put together. I need a quality hinge with minimal overhang as my garage is a similar proportion to yours, maybe even narrower at 7.5ft - space here is a premium...
A great comparison video Peter, good to see them all at Makers Central for a hands on look and a chat with you. Taken the plunge and ordered the Benchdogs one as it works for me and already on preorder batch 6 so didn’t want to wait too long! That said I was really impressed with your DIY version and almost tempted to have a go myself! Thanks again for your efforts and inspirational videos.
For those of us that are space-constrained and have to work with little clearance between the MFT and the wall behind it, the space needed at the rear to accommodate the hinge overhang can be a major issue. I'd like a hinge but need something with minimal overhang.
I’m working on that. You always need some overhang though - or at least, space behind the fence; the deepest part of the cut is at the centre of the blade, so everything forwards of that needs to be accommodated somewhere. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Yes, that's true but with something like the BenchDogs fence in place, the centre of the blade only needs to go as far as the front of the fence (using FenceDogs, that's 20mm in front of the rear holes). On my table, which is a custom top so will be slightly different from a standard MFT top, I only need to leave 35mm between the table and the wall to allow me to make a cut to the fence line with a TS55.
Good afternoon Peter. Great to meet you in person at Makers Central on Saturday. Thanks for this review. I already have a number of the excellent Benchdog products and the new rail hinge looks to be the usual Benchdog quality and is probably favourite in my mind at the moment but I look forward to seeing how your own product evolves and whether it becomes a commercially viable product. All the best
Recently made portable (ish, with little wheels on one side) mft table, and have been making a few things on it. Can see now why a rail on a hinge will save you buckets of time. Googled but nothing really came up but I knew you'd have a video. Very handy, thanks.
After watching this video, I ordered the Dashboard hinge package. I use dogs and a Woodpecker framing square every time I use my MFT rail and TS55. I hope this hinge setup will eliminate that chore.
Love your videos. I watch a number and for me your format works very well. As for hinge brackets, Yes for me they each have there plus or minus. The Benchdog uk, use of stainless and alloy is of fantastic quality, great to see UK product. I have my own design of MFT using trestles (Axminster saw horses) this makes the top wide. It has 120 x 40 track around it perimeter, on three sides and a Stanton type end. With the Benchdog unit I could only use it if the bench dog fixings are converted to a top face T track slot, but you cant have knobs. This is because the benchdogs fix close to the edge of the top. I would love to see a cam type, top T track fixing. It was great to meet you at Maker Central, well worth the journey. You must introduce the other half of your stand.
Thank you for the comparison. Paying 330$ for a hinge that does exactly the same thing that your laminate DIY hinge does is insane. I like good tools, but in this case I think that if somebody lacks the skills to create a simple hinge system, he might as well buy his furniture.
Thank you for the information. I do like the benchdogs design to support multiple versions of track saws. But I don’t like their idea of mount it through dog holes. That will block the side rail. In case I want to utilize the side rail to make a router sled, I have to unmount the hinge first.
Another great vid I want one of the benchdogs rail hinges only they all ready sold out till end off July DAM ! still I ordered one and sit waiting all excited till it gets here lol Its still an expensive bit of kit for the DIY worker at £183 but am in the joinery trade and use a track saw every day so this should pay for its self in a month or two .
Very nice comparison. Would really like to get the dashboard unit, but with exchange rate, wold cost over $500.00 Canadian. Too costly for just a hobby.
Good review of all 3 Peter, I love the BD solution, but having seen your version at MC on Saturday with the auto adjustment feature, that has to be the winner 👍. By the way, it was great to finally meet you, it was a great show.
Thank you, great to meet you too! I think there are pros and cons to every system; as I may have said, the hinge I'm tinkering with scratches a particular itch that I have - and maybe others have too - but it wont be for everyone. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Hi Peter New to woodworking, love your videos. What track should I fit to MFT table to accommodate the dashboard rail hinge. I have purchased the Parf Mark 2 system and going to construct a table based n your plans. Keep up the good work I encouraging people to the woodworking craft. Regards Paul
Very informative and it makes me rethink my entire workbench setup! I REALLY like the Bench Dogs hinge, but I’m in the US and I suspect that importing it would bump the price up to be roughly equal with the Dashboard one. I’ll need to research it. Very much looking forward to what you’ve come up with on the DIY front! 👍
TSO introduced a hinge “upgrade” (rather than replacement, presumably because it reuses some of the Festool components) last year. I haven’t found many comparisons to the other hinges. It looks very well thought-through and doesn’t require any new holes for dogs. Has anyone here tried the TSO hinge? Experiences?
@@10MinuteWorkshop Tried to respond last night with a link, which TH-cam probably blocked. It’s under “Workstations and Components.” If you get seriously curious, let me know if I can help facilitate (e.g., transshipping).
Thinking also about the MFT tables and the struts which they still only sell as extras but which are integral for making the tables stable enough to hand plane wood on etc. Even with the struts the tables are not exactly very sturdy and of course removing the struts to move the table is a real pain. It's another design like the Festool MFT track hinge which just hasn't been improved upon and that's disappointing for a premium priced product and company. Dashboard's improvement on the table is noteworthy but I have yet used one.
Thanks for this very informative video. With the quad dog jig, the BD system is about the same price as the Right Angle Design unit. I just bought the latter, and it's a beautiful piece of kit, as you folks say! No bad choice between the two.
What's your preference between dashboard and bench dogs uk? I see bench dogs has an alignment jig... how does that function? I use both 3/4 and 20mm dogs with both festool and makita rails (makita offers a 118" ~2998mm rail which is useful for US 4x8 sheets). I'm wanting to replace my table saw and have been watching videos for years... yours included. I have several centipede workstations including the largest and smallest with 20mm and 3/4 dog hole tops and am wanting to make a knock-down 'cover' style top with some extrusions on the sides for clamp and some handles routed in to remove material for weight reduction and portability. I'll probably end up with a stationary 4x8, portable 4x4, and even possibly 4x2 to use as an outfeed support with a stock bora top.
Generally they're both of excellent quality, but the Dashboard hinge is much more expensive to get outside of the US as we get hit for import duties. The Benchdogs and Dashboard approach is different, the Dashboard more of a traditional rail hinge that needs an extrusion for it to fit to, whereas the Benchdogs sits flat on the MFT surface and locates with quad style bench dogs, so ideal for using with an MFT top rather than a full bench with extrusion or T-tracks. The benchdogs template makes it easy to bore out the extra holes for the hinge fixings, with several several positions to choose from. More details on the benchdogs website. 👍
It's fantastic these things cost so much. It's a...hinge. They should cost about $60 at most. I guess we're paying a premium for the nichr factor or something ?
A fourth option is available on Amazon. A search for Festool rail hinge will show it. Sold by Weiput-us. It is different in that it uses a double hinge system. Oh and the price is cheaper than Festool, yet it seems to solve the pin issue by what appears to be a very stable design. It also has what appears to be a "press to lift" bar that would be good for production work, granted it does take up some extra space. If...I used the mft a lot, I would be looking at the Dashboard model, well built and solid from what I see. I'm suprised I'm the only one that had the "love at first sight" for the Dashboard model. The price covers what it takes to make a better that Festool product.
On amazon uk it is on the second page of results about 2/3 the way down on the left. If you search for "track saw guide rail hinge". Listed as "circular saw guide" etc. 113.61 quid. Please be aware this is likely one of those low budget type project things. Looks to need aditional support under the front hinge. Lots of potential, even the potential of making two units from this thing. Look at all of the pictures for the listing. Buyer beware.
Hi Peter it's this one Circular Saw Guide Table Rail Track, Circular Saw Guide Rail System Woodworking Lifting Rigorous Structure with Clip for 30 Chutes It doesn't show how or whether it fits onto a guide rail. Looks pretty well made and appears in several listings on Amazon. Certainly a good price if it works. On the Benchdogs version I note you might need to buy the special jig (£40 + VAT) to drill the offset holes although I think this could be done with a Parf Guide if you have one unless it would fit directly into whatever holes you have at the edge of the worktop. Not sure if this would work for an MFT as you need clearance for the alloy rail.
@@michaelblackmore883 I did order this prouct. It is part of a system sold by a Chinese company called Wnew on Aliexpress. They even have their version of the MFT. It took some adapting to use with the Festool guide rail. The result were outstanding.
I think this is a situation where it depends on which side of the pond you live on. I can get the Dashboard, but Bench Dogs UK is a miss. Funny thing, having worked for a Festool supplier (Woodcraft) here in the US, was not able to find a part number to order for their rail hinge, at least from the part numbers given to us. Thanks for the review and your comments on each. I look forward to your homemade version.
Which 20mm router bit are you using? I already have the 346 Quad Hole Jig and I have been trying it out on a test piece. I have an Axminster bit and a Wealden Tool Company bit but they both make holes which are a bit sloppy with the Benchdogs bench dogs. However, this might not be an issue as the Quad Hole Jig does attach tightly but I am not going to drill any more holes in my MFT top until I receive the rail hinge (I am hoping very soon, as I am first batch). My MFT top was made using the Parf System and these holes are fine so I also have the option of drilling the extra holes using this. It is just that routing the holes is a lot easier than drilling them.
The router bit thing is a real issue - I’ve had a video planned for a while about it. I use the Festool bit, which bores an oversized hole, about 20.16/20.2mm; I had a precision engineer pal grind it down very carefully until it cut a snug fit for my benchdogs. There’s a longer story here - Festool never intended the MFT tops to be used for benchdogs, just for clamping, and to this day they don’t make a benchdog of their own - but essentially, there are many factors at play in getting a snug ~20mm hole and if you took my ‘perfectly tuned’ 20mm bit and put it in another router you’d probably get a different result. 🤷♂️👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thank you. I remember that you had mentioned that a router bit video is in planning. As I stated, I have options, I shall just have to wait and see.
@@10MinuteWorkshop A further thought. If there is an issue with 20mm router bits then the Parf System method of drilling does look better. I have just made a 1200mm by 850mm bench top for the Benchdog hinge system . My idea is to put it on top of my 1200mm by 610mm workbench (made before I knew about track saws and MFTs) with overhangs at the front and back. I drilled out most of the 20mm holes because once started why not keep going but my arm ached. Having received the Quad Hole Jig, I thought that it should be possible to make an after-market add-on template for the Parf System to use the accuracy of the 3mm hole grid but make the 20mm holes using a router. (I know that there are MFT templates to use with routers but my concern with them is cumulative errors.) However, if there is an issue with hole size then I shall have to stick drilling holes and aching arms.
Hi Robert, Yes the router bit is a minefield with getting the right one for the 20mm hole. I was chatting to Trend tools recently about this same issue and we are discussing a resolve for the "20mm hole bit" one thing to take into consideration with the holes a not to teach anyone to suck eggs but a major factor in the this is it's not always the bits and possible the router itself with the runout of the spindle 0.05 is enough to through it out too much so my advice is to as much as possible to have more of the shank in the collet to avoid as much runout.
@@RalphBD I have now bought a Trend 20mm router bit. I remembered that it was the bit that Andy Guile (aka The Woodgratfter) used to make his MFT top. It gives better results with the Benchdogs Quad Dogs tightening securely in the dog holes. I have made a prototype of my proposed jig from 9mm MDF and using the Trend bit I can cut a row of holes at 96mm spacings.
I don't see alot of people talk about height adjustment on the hinges. Can the benchdogs be used slightly loose in the back so it auto adjusts to the height of the material being cut or does it go out of square if you do so? Really the only thing stopping me from ordering, is I cannot get to the back of the bench before every cut.
There's one thing I noticed missing from all these commercial available. It's none of them. have auto Material thickness Adjustment. Every time you change the thickness of the material you want to saw, you have to resset it. Where as on my homemade version. I use to. use two fire rated door hinges. Welded together as one hinge in my case, But could be bolted together. at each end. of the track. They're the type with the ball bearings hinges. So they're very tight. No slop. So they're bolted to rail and table exrtusion at the rear end, But the front end version again uses Two hinges.again one side to rail and other side connected to a thin peice of ply with two dog holes in it to match table dog holes. so I can lift off the track. completely up out of the way, as the commercially versions do. I have to admit my version's not pretty. but I never need to do any adjustment. because the hinges are double. that allows. as they go up, they go back If you're doing something thinner. The rail just comes forward a little bit and drops more. I doubt it cost me as much as £20. for the four hinges. OK, I have the ability to Weld. but even woodworkers can bolt 2 hinges or drill them if holes do not match then connect them together. Alternative are you aware of these on bang good and. at only £61. I won't put the link. TH-cam never seems to allow me. But I'll put the name as they are advertised. Adjustable Rail Lift Clamps Unique Sliding Tenon Design Height Adjustable Ideal for Various Table Heights and Rails Ensures Sturdy.
Thank you for the comparision Peter. Can you provide some more info on BD hinge system. I have already ordered it but I found no info on what can be the maximum distance from the edge of the top to quad dogs center line. My planned diy mft will be built from aluminium extrusions so the edges of the top will sit on the extrusions which are 40mm wide and from the looks of it the quad base dogs might be in collision with that extrusions. Another question i have, is about depth of quad dog bases - just wondering if i can make a work around for the collisions by putting thicker top ie 21mm.
Thanks. I've made a few posts on Instagram about this, I'll link them up here. instagram.com/p/CcheeH5j10V/? instagram.com/tv/CckA_s3jXAv/? instagram.com/tv/Ccmj_WSD2wb/? Long story short you need 35mm from the edge to the 20mm hole centre, to allow space for the hinge/support hardware. HTH! P
After two BD hinge videos I am still missing anyone mentioning the calibration pin. Maybe I have to look for Ralph's manuals online but is it really possible to calibrate with the inner pin? And if so is it lost everytime you loosen the rail (maybe an OK sacrifice). Thanks again Peter
Can someone explain the need for these expensive and in my opinion grossly overpriced rail hinges as opposed to 2 BD tapered dogs fitted to the rail and then into MFT bench holes. Is the minimal saving in setting up time worth the expense?
I’ve covered this at length in previous videos, most recently the Ikea Curtain track MFT build (link in description) but in short, if you’re in a small workshop and carry out many operations where the rail needs to be cleared to get your bench back for another process, then yes, just being able to lift up the rail and clear your bench is priceless. There are lots of other ways of getting a square cut - dogs and clips, rail dogs, rail square etc… but they all require you to take the rail away and put it *somewhere* between cuts; this isn’t insurmountable - see my recent ‘basic build’ of plywood shelves - but it definitely adds to the time taken, and it simply isn’t as convenient as a rail hinge. As I said in this and previous videos, I’m not trying to convince anyone of the benefits - you’re all adults, you can make up your own minds. And so will I. 👍
Thanks Edgar! I’m going to have to start putting links in to this strap, I’m getting so many enquiries, lol! It’s a ‘double-tour’ (Hermes) knock-off from Amazon; nice strap! amzn.to/3yyDBBQ 👌
How accurate are these hinges? Can you just slap them onto your mft and they’ll be spot on or is there an element of setting up for accuracy each time you use them eg if taking a portable table to site?
The hinges are as accurate as you set them up to be. Fitting stops in the t-slots to locate them means you can remove and refit them with confidence - provided they were set up correctly at the start. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thanks. I will try them again. They did not seem to know about it when I asked them at the time I purchased my bench dog system. There response from tech support was did not think I needed them.
Customer service at Benchdog replied they never made one since it’s not needed. I’m confused since my original set up grooved the guide just as you had indicted when it was the steel pin by Festool.
A good review, unfortunately in the United States I have been unable to buy a Festool Hinge havebtalked to their dealers and they are not allowed to sell them. So one of the others is in my future.
Sorry to hear that. I suspect he dealers are being disingenuous; it’s available as a spare part - how else would MFT owners get spares? Part numbers are listed in the video description, if you google them or use Festool enkat parts catalogue you should be able to order them. Let me know how you get on.
Hi Peter. Sorry this question is from an earlier video, but thought to post it here. You mentioned in a video the Spax M type screws for MDF and I followed the link in your comments (which seems to go to a different screw), and found the right product. My question is around the Torx drivers, am I right that they are proprietary to Spax with that extra protrusion? Amazon shows Spax bits, but they are not available in some sizes like T15. Are you aware of a set that Spax or somebody compatible offers?
In the great southern land we are midst federal election. I have just watched a clip of Boris stating that OAP that can't afford to heat their homes should be grateful for his bus passed. When I clicked on this the starting ad was a grab of our Prime Minister repeatedly telling people "its not my job".My daughter's favourite Scummoism is his response to a report stating that maternity resources were so neglected that women had to drive 2-3 hours often not making it and being forced to give birth beside the road. Scummo's response My government has spent millions upgrading the highway so it much safer to give birth on the highway than it was. I know we are independent and cut the apron strings long ago but for some reason I think there remains a deep bond between our 2 countries.
I do like the single lever to lock the Festool version, but, using a tool to lock in the rail has been a PITA (too much of a faf... :^). Love the beefiness of the Dashboard and not needing tools to install or remove (I have to work outside so each time I use my MFT it needs to be set up then taken down which puts a bias on my choices). Naturally I bought my Dashboard before the Bench Dogs version was released so that won't be an option for me. Yet. The one thing I won't like about the Bench Dog version: The T bolts to slide the rail on - I always seem to be fightying the T bolt to line up and would prefer a long rail like the other two use. An option they could offer later? Being in the US the Dash Board does not suffer the shipping and VAT hit; making it a much easier choice too.
It was a shockingly bad saw from Lutz - I gave it away in the end, couldn’t bring myself to sell it to anyone. Don’t know if they’re still made, but avoid them if they are.
Thanks! I made these ones, and they're from Finsa Fibracolour in anthracite. If you check out my instagram there are a couple of reels of me making this particular one, or the 'Ikea curtain track MFT' video (link in description) for the MFT top it was resting on. 👍
Hay Peter grate content as always mate 👌 👍, what is the length of the overhang on the benchdogs hinge, what sort of clearance do you think you would need to a back wall ?? ,thank you Peter your always a fantastic teacher of very inspiring knowledge 👏 cheers James
Off topic: You should have an affiliate link for the double-wrap watch band. I couldn't stop staring at it and actually had to pause the video to look it up.
Pete, an MFT table.Seems to me its purpose serves 90, 45 i guess whatever you want. It very handy for clamping. Thats it. The amount of waste wood ive seen thrown after been given an example. Ive looked for vids on what tips, tricks and the so. Got cnc myself, chucked a load a money on what boils down to round bits of ali. Sorry Ralph ive spent fortunes. Any seen a Chesterfield or a Queen Ann. Dont think im having go at you. Iwatch everyone without fail. Im a hypocrite but im i missing something in advance. Stay safe.
As I’ve said in this video and all the others, I’m not trying to sell anyone on the concept of an MFT; if you’ve decided it’s not for you then that’s fine. But it works well for me, and seems to work for others too. 🤷♂️ There’s a whole playlist of MFT - related videos, link in description, and if you want a basic introduction then the older videos 182 and 183 are a decent starting point. HTH. P
I understand that. That was your income and didnt take into consideration of course it would be ideal for you. As someone who is a couple of months in. I expected more. At least i only bouught the top and accessories because that table it stands on. Leave it there. Sorry to waste your time. Thanks.
Need to put that on a Tshirt, "If you're on a budget, buy Festool":D I like the Benchdog's solution, however (in this video) you forgot to mention the additional tool (ideally) needed to make the extra holes which adds a few coins on top of the price.
That’d be a good t-shirt to wear at a trade show! 😂 Re the template, U think I showed pretty well in the previous video that you don’t need to buy the template to make the holes - but yes, it certainly made making them easier. 👍👍
Sorry Dave I don't understand; you quote me about guiderails - which I describe in detail - then talk about t-track?? As I say in the vid, I went through all the specs in the 'extrusion confusion' video - linked in the description - so overkill to do it again here, wouldn't you say? 🤷♂️
@@10MinuteWorkshop Sorry Peter, I meant the T track onto which the rail fits (front and back of bench) rather than the rail on which the saw runs? In particular the dashboard hinge. I don't think you cover this?
Depends entirely on what you’re doing; if it’s lots of repeat cuts and you can have a reasonably static bench set up, then rail hinge. If you’re more mobile, and need to cut a variety of panels to different sizes, then rail square, and add in the repeat stop if you regularly need to do same-size cuts. 👍
Great review and I agree the Festool rail hinge is a bit ‘meh’. That wee bit of shaped plate to engage in the slot was perhaps optimistic when it comes to precision. I also find the height adjustment clamping lever a tad sketchy. Both the other products are clearly superior. The chap across the pond needs to licence production to a Brit! Accuracy, repeatability and five cut test? I know this is not rocket science and woodwork does not need the accuracy required of more demanding disciplines. But. It would be good to know how to adjust, what to expect for’ reasonable’ or achievable accuracy and how it performs in terms of repeatability using 5 cut tests. Have you covered this - have I missed it? Best Regards 😀👍
Thanks Norman! Yes, I think Rob at Dashboard has looked at local production, but always difficult to deal with these things from afar. As for the 5-cut test, I've never done one on any MFT or any MFT top I've made -and I'm certainly not about to start on someone else's product - because it's almost impossible to create the kind of test conditions where the results would be quantifiable; I'm sure someone will, but it wont be me I'm afraid! 👍
Great video Peter. But is it possible that the non Festool rail hinges are terribly over engineered. You as many have used the MFT for years with great success. The hinge and receiver have worked flawlessly for you, and your cabinetry is amazing. Sometimes I think things are made better for sure, but perhaps a little “overkill”. Love your channel, have watched all your videos many times, I have learned so much. Keep up the good work!!
Thanks Les. Yes, I mentioned this last week in a member video where I was chatting about my own forthcoming DIY hinge, and I will say a few words on the topic when I make that public video. I don't think the Festool hinge is particularly great and it certainly doesn't look like it's been developed at all, but fair play to Festool for making a hinge that does the job, and that can be manufactured in volume at a relatively modest price - and that can be purchased as separate parts, rear hinge and front support. There's a certain 'spare' elegance to the design - not aesthetically, but from a manufacturing point of view, that's missing from the others, and yes, perhaps the other are over-engineered - but people do seem to like that, and I noticed that the Benchdogs hinge is now pre-ordering for the 7th production run; that's a lot of folks ready and willing to buy what they offer, so fair play to Benchdogs - and Dashboard - for filing that need. Thanks for taking the time to comment, and best wishes, Peter. 👍
Oh don’t get me wrong, if I didn’t live in Canada and afraid it would cost me my first born, I’d have had a plethora of Benchdogs kit, including that rail hinge, fence, dogs …lol
14:04 It's a shame Benchdogs didn't make their hinge with adjustable dog positions. I have a workbench with dog holes, but it's not MFT, which make this hinge useless to me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ All they had to do was use a slot instead of a hole.
Probably concerned about introducing play and affecting the squareness though they tend to be open to suggestions if you contact them. That said an MFT workbench that doesn’t conform to the 96mm hole spacing is a fairly niche product, and everything else MFT-related that Benchdogs make is on 96mm centres. 👍
Always a great review! I would like to find one that only uses the holes on the top of the bench and not hang over the back at least. My MFT is my table saw outfeed table. I can’t have it sit too far away from the saw and it is 3’x5’ on a heavy base, too heavy to move around. If the beach dogs could stay flat to the table that would be awesome!!
Unfortunately Dashboard don't take PayPal and then bill for shipping after they receive credit card details , and Benchdogs also want credit card details . That's a red flag for Aussies .
Not sure why you see it as a red flag - many companies need a card address before they can calculate eg VAT and shipping rates, and both Benchdogs and Dashboard are respected small companies with solid reputations. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Hi Peter . I've not had good experiences with overseas credit card transactions . Have been billed twice , charged exorbitant shipping and handling and finally had my details left on a retailer's old dumped computer and subsequently used by a scammer ; that was hassle for the Bank . My bank recommended dealing with intermediates like PayPal to avoid supplying details to a seller . So after 15 years of PayPal , I've only paid what I've sent . If Ebay sellers can declare a shipping price , so should a retailer be able to arrange such on their website . . it's not difficult for them to set it up . I've learnt to be mistrusting Peter . Yes , I miss out on stuff , but I'm not going back . Cheers, Neil in Brisbane 🙂
![Pocket-money Rail Hinge [video 497]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/sHj5G6t1qvY/mqdefault.jpg)
![Pocket-money Rail Hinge [video 497]](/img/tr.png)
![Backyard, DIY MFT on a Budget [video 490]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xIi-I04ocVM/mqdefault.jpg)
![Benchdogs Quad MFT Hinge System [**Ad/Gifted][video 492]](/img/n.gif)
Hi Peter, thanks for your time at Makers Central, i was the chap on Saturday on spent more time studying your rail hinge than pretty much anything else at the show. Really excited to see your build on that... have already started mine based on the notes i took at the show. Think theres a huge market out there for people to pay £50 -£80 for yours. It was rock solid. Thanks again for being so generous with your time and kind words.
Hi James, great to meet you too! Ah, so you're *that* guy! 😂 Glad it was of interest, and hope you managed to find a few other things at the show! I'm costing it all out now, and we'll see what we can come up with. 👍
I have had the Dashboard a good few months now & no problems whatsoever. Solid as a rock. Never moves out of alignment. 5 star from me.
Yep, great hardware. Very impressed with mine 👍
Brilliant comparison, I think the Benchdogs one would suit the majority of people and I personally still can't see why you'd go for the dashboard one if you're in the UK. And as an added bonus, you're supporting a British business. We need more of this!
Thank you for the reviews Peter and your replies to my comments on your previous review, i’ve just ordered mine from Bench Dogs.
Great video Peter. Thank you bench dogs is going to be a popular store for me.
Hey Peter, great video and great to see all options available to give potential buyers the low down on them. Well done. 100% as usual.
Thanks Ralph! 👍
Thanks Peter for the comparison as it confirms my choice for the BD version. My assembly table will be 3 MFT3 tables joined as Brent woodworking has done. Really looking forward to having it all put together 😎
Thank you for this Peter. I purchased a Festool MFT with their hinge thinking I was getting the best but I wished I’d seen your video first. Anyway, I upgraded my hinge to the Dashboard model because I like the way it can be positioned anywhere on the rail. You do a great job!Please keep up the good work.
Thank you! 👍
Just received my rail hinge from the 9th pre order, it's every bit as good as you say, a true masterpiece of British engineering.well with the hard earned.
Great to hear, thanks! 👍
Great comparison video, Peter. I could go with either the Benchdogs or the Dashboard and be perfectly happy. Your videos are always top notch and thoroughly enjoyable. There are so so many MFT benchtop build videos to watch. One technique I am unable to find covered on YT, however is when using an Aluminum extrusion to frame your top, no video shows how to build and assemble so that all four corners of the T track extrusions are left open, giving you the utmost access for T track accessories on all four sides, just like the Festool and Dashboard tables. Hope to see you cover this dilemma in one of your fine instructional videos that might show what brackets to use to accomplish this task, using common extrusions like 2040 or 8020 or whatever.
Always a pleasure watching your videos. Can't wait to see your self made hinge in action!
Thanks! It’s coming… 👍👍
Many thanks Peter, I have the Benchdogs hinge on 1st batch pre-order so very pleased to see the production version, it looks top quality.
It's a thing of beauty. 👌 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop It has arrived and it is!
Thanks for the comparison, Peter. It confirmed my suspicion that the Benchdogs one would be the right solution for me. I am just trying to figure out the perfect size MFT slab for the space I have and then I will start with a slab and a couple of trestles before making something a bit more permanent. Or perhaps having a more permanent solution that uses the trestles... BTW the loose tenon jig arrived a few days ago. Planning on giving that a try this weekend. :)
My plan remains: build my own rail hinge system. BUT
This new Bench Dogs piece is very tempting.
I love the connection method. I almost feel that it would be even better if it were an "either/or" option. If it could be connected to the dog holes OR to a t-slot rail on the side. I didn't get a close enough look at it to see if that could be made possible. But, then again, one might not want to be cutting/grinding/drilling on such a nice accessory.
I've rounded up a couple heavy duty ballbearing hinges to weld together and make my own hinge, for the time being.
I'll see how long I can live with that.
Thanks for the comparison video. Much needed, and much appreciated!
Thanks! And no, just FYI putting the Benchdogs hinge onto an extrusion isn't an easy option. 👍
“Unobtanium Plastic” … a great quip in a solid / helpful tool review !
I sooooooo hate changing rail height on the MFT … that I try to cut 3/4” wood most of the time. It shouldn’t be that way.
I always had mine set to 18mm, with 12 & 6mm spoilerboards added in when I needed to cut something thinner. 👍
Learning more about wood working every time I watch a video. That you
I always admire what you come up with. I am really intrigued by Benchdogs products, they look like amazing quality and appear to have beautiful functionality. Hope someday to get my hands on some of their offerings for my own review.
Thanks for what you do!
Again,loved the subject.I love Festool probably because they were the first to make the hinge guide system.The Jonny come latelys,of course ,would make a better product,albeit more expensive.Your videos are such a breath of fresh air.
Thanks! I think this just proves that the first mover advantage only lasts so long, and you really need to keep developing the product - or others will do it for you. 👍
Dashboard one looks beast. Massive overhang and hella pricey though. Reallly like the BD solution using 2 20mm holes with the quad dog and that it's sized to be in line with their fence system. Very neat. Still using my scraps of aly plate and heavy duty door hinge for mine. Wish I could find a cost effective saleable way to replicate my hinge. Don't know if your saw my vid but I made mine so it rolls down/pulls up from behind the bench. Bit niche for my set up really I suppose. Any way, nice one for the look-see mate.
Cheers Stu! Yes, love your hinge idea with the drop-down stowaway trick! Don’t know if you saw on Instagram but I have my own version in the works - minimal overhang, all controls accessible from the front. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Yes mate. Looking forward to your big reveal chap.🤗
@@10MinuteWorkshop Have you built that hinge yet Peter? I'm looking forward to seeing what you've put together. I need a quality hinge with minimal overhang as my garage is a similar proportion to yours, maybe even narrower at 7.5ft - space here is a premium...
The Benchdog is the only one that fits on a Paulk Smart Workbench. I preordered mine the day they were announced. Can’t wait to get it!
Great point! 👍
A great comparison video Peter, good to see them all at Makers Central for a hands on look and a chat with you. Taken the plunge and ordered the Benchdogs one as it works for me and already on preorder batch 6 so didn’t want to wait too long! That said I was really impressed with your DIY version and almost tempted to have a go myself! Thanks again for your efforts and inspirational videos.
Thanks Duncan! Great to meet you too! 👍
For those of us that are space-constrained and have to work with little clearance between the MFT and the wall behind it, the space needed at the rear to accommodate the hinge overhang can be a major issue. I'd like a hinge but need something with minimal overhang.
I’m working on that. You always need some overhang though - or at least, space behind the fence; the deepest part of the cut is at the centre of the blade, so everything forwards of that needs to be accommodated somewhere. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Yes, that's true but with something like the BenchDogs fence in place, the centre of the blade only needs to go as far as the front of the fence (using FenceDogs, that's 20mm in front of the rear holes). On my table, which is a custom top so will be slightly different from a standard MFT top, I only need to leave 35mm between the table and the wall to allow me to make a cut to the fence line with a TS55.
Good afternoon Peter. Great to meet you in person at Makers Central on Saturday. Thanks for this review. I already have a number of the excellent Benchdog products and the new rail hinge looks to be the usual Benchdog quality and is probably favourite in my mind at the moment but I look forward to seeing how your own product evolves and whether it becomes a commercially viable product. All the best
Thanks John! Great to meet you too, and yes, we'll see how the DIY hinge progresses - it's all coming along! 👍
Recently made portable (ish, with little wheels on one side) mft table, and have been making a few things on it. Can see now why a rail on a hinge will save you buckets of time. Googled but nothing really came up but I knew you'd have a video. Very handy, thanks.
After watching this video, I ordered the Dashboard hinge package. I use dogs and a Woodpecker framing square every time I use my MFT rail and TS55. I hope this hinge setup will eliminate that chore.
Great video, Peter. Thank you for comparing these hinges and pointing out the differences. Much appreciated.
Cheers James! 👍
Love your videos. I watch a number and for me your format works very well. As for hinge brackets, Yes for me they each have there plus or minus. The Benchdog uk, use of stainless and alloy is of fantastic quality, great to see UK product. I have my own design of MFT using trestles (Axminster saw horses) this makes the top wide. It has 120 x 40 track around it perimeter, on three sides and a Stanton type end. With the Benchdog unit I could only use it if the bench dog fixings are converted to a top face T track slot, but you cant have knobs. This is because the benchdogs fix close to the edge of the top. I would love to see a cam type, top T track fixing.
It was great to meet you at Maker Central, well worth the journey. You must introduce the other half of your stand.
Thanks Barry, good to meet you too! 👍
Have a few benchdogs products because of your videos Pete. Great additions to my workshop 👍
Thank you for the comparison. Paying 330$ for a hinge that does exactly the same thing that your laminate DIY hinge does is insane. I like good tools, but in this case I think that if somebody lacks the skills to create a simple hinge system, he might as well buy his furniture.
Thank you for the information. I do like the benchdogs design to support multiple versions of track saws. But I don’t like their idea of mount it through dog holes. That will block the side rail. In case I want to utilize the side rail to make a router sled, I have to unmount the hinge first.
Then maybe try the Dashboard hinge? 🤷♂️👍
Another great vid I want one of the benchdogs rail hinges only they all ready sold out till end off July DAM ! still I ordered one and sit waiting all excited till it gets here lol Its still an expensive bit of kit for the DIY worker at £183 but am in the joinery trade and use a track saw every day so this should pay for its self in a month or two .
You've talked a lot about rail hinges lately and I appreciate it :)
Very nice comparison. Would really like to get the dashboard unit, but with exchange rate, wold cost over $500.00 Canadian. Too costly for just a hobby.
Good review of all 3 Peter, I love the BD solution, but having seen your version at MC on Saturday with the auto adjustment feature, that has to be the winner 👍. By the way, it was great to finally meet you, it was a great show.
Thank you, great to meet you too! I think there are pros and cons to every system; as I may have said, the hinge I'm tinkering with scratches a particular itch that I have - and maybe others have too - but it wont be for everyone. 👍
I can see your DIY version being a popular item
Thanks! Judging by the comments I’ve been getting I think I’d agree! 😂👍
Save the best for last 😉😊
@@10MinuteWorkshop
Hi Peter
New to woodworking, love your videos.
What track should I fit to MFT table to accommodate the dashboard rail hinge.
I have purchased the Parf Mark 2 system and going to construct a table based n your plans.
Keep up the good work I encouraging people to the woodworking craft.
Regards
Paul
Very informative and it makes me rethink my entire workbench setup! I REALLY like the Bench Dogs hinge, but I’m in the US and I suspect that importing it would bump the price up to be roughly equal with the Dashboard one. I’ll need to research it. Very much looking forward to what you’ve come up with on the DIY front! 👍
I believe Ralph will be setting up US distribution.
@@idlersdream826 any news on the US distribution
@@RobyWanKenobi I’ve not heard anything recently, get in touch via the contact page on their website or email address.
TSO introduced a hinge “upgrade” (rather than replacement, presumably because it reuses some of the Festool components) last year. I haven’t found many comparisons to the other hinges. It looks very well thought-through and doesn’t require any new holes for dogs. Has anyone here tried the TSO hinge? Experiences?
They’ve done a poor job of promoting it - I had no idea. I’ll take a look, thanks! 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Tried to respond last night with a link, which TH-cam probably blocked. It’s under “Workstations and Components.” If you get seriously curious, let me know if I can help facilitate (e.g., transshipping).
Heb de dachboard gekocht werkt super , wel duur met invoerrechten naar nederland. Werkt super.
Bedankt
Graag gedaan. 👍
Thinking also about the MFT tables and the struts which they still only sell as extras but which are integral for making the tables stable enough to hand plane wood on etc. Even with the struts the tables are not exactly very sturdy and of course removing the struts to move the table is a real pain. It's another design like the Festool MFT track hinge which just hasn't been improved upon and that's disappointing for a premium priced product and company. Dashboard's improvement on the table is noteworthy but I have yet used one.
Thanks for this very informative video. With the quad dog jig, the BD system is about the same price as the Right Angle Design unit. I just bought the latter, and it's a beautiful piece of kit, as you folks say! No bad choice between the two.
Million
Great video! I am also on a new journey and looking for some great ideas for my new assembly table / workbench I have to build
May be of interest to some. All of them are out of my price range and ability to use.
How do you rip a full sheet in half on that table?
What's your preference between dashboard and bench dogs uk? I see bench dogs has an alignment jig... how does that function?
I use both 3/4 and 20mm dogs with both festool and makita rails (makita offers a 118" ~2998mm rail which is useful for US 4x8 sheets). I'm wanting to replace my table saw and have been watching videos for years... yours included. I have several centipede workstations including the largest and smallest with 20mm and 3/4 dog hole tops and am wanting to make a knock-down 'cover' style top with some extrusions on the sides for clamp and some handles routed in to remove material for weight reduction and portability. I'll probably end up with a stationary 4x8, portable 4x4, and even possibly 4x2 to use as an outfeed support with a stock bora top.
Generally they're both of excellent quality, but the Dashboard hinge is much more expensive to get outside of the US as we get hit for import duties. The Benchdogs and Dashboard approach is different, the Dashboard more of a traditional rail hinge that needs an extrusion for it to fit to, whereas the Benchdogs sits flat on the MFT surface and locates with quad style bench dogs, so ideal for using with an MFT top rather than a full bench with extrusion or T-tracks. The benchdogs template makes it easy to bore out the extra holes for the hinge fixings, with several several positions to choose from. More details on the benchdogs website. 👍
Pretty interesting stuff indeed, Peter! 😃
Great review!!!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Thanks, you too! 👍
Hi - does anyone know if the Dashboard hinge will attach to the older MFT 1080. I think the rail slot on both is the same but not sure. Thx Bill
It's fantastic these things cost so much. It's a...hinge. They should cost about $60 at most. I guess we're paying a premium for the nichr factor or something ?
Your product images and filming are exquisite.
Thank you! Good to know the 20 years I spent as a product photographer wasn’t wasted! 😂😂👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Well, you took your time but, looks like you've finally cracked it! 🤣🤣🤣👍
😂😂 Made my day! 👍👍😂
A fourth option is available on Amazon. A search for Festool rail hinge will show it. Sold by Weiput-us. It is different in that it uses a double hinge system. Oh and the price is cheaper than Festool, yet it seems to solve the pin issue by what appears to be a very stable design. It also has what appears to be a "press to lift" bar that would be good for production work, granted it does take up some extra space. If...I used the mft a lot, I would be looking at the Dashboard model, well built and solid from what I see. I'm suprised I'm the only one that had the "love at first sight" for the Dashboard model. The price covers what it takes to make a better that Festool product.
Not in the UK, and a search shows up nothing on Amazon.com; do you have a link? 👍
On amazon uk it is on the second page of results about 2/3 the way down on the left. If you search for "track saw guide rail hinge". Listed as "circular saw guide" etc. 113.61 quid. Please be aware this is likely one of those low budget type project things. Looks to need aditional support under the front hinge. Lots of potential, even the potential of making two units from this thing. Look at all of the pictures for the listing. Buyer beware.
Hi Peter it's this one
Circular Saw Guide Table Rail Track, Circular Saw Guide Rail System Woodworking Lifting Rigorous Structure with Clip for 30 Chutes
It doesn't show how or whether it fits onto a guide rail. Looks pretty well made and appears in several listings on Amazon. Certainly a good price if it works.
On the Benchdogs version I note you might need to buy the special jig (£40 + VAT) to drill the offset holes although I think this could be done with a Parf Guide if you have one unless it would fit directly into whatever holes you have at the edge of the worktop. Not sure if this would work for an MFT as you need clearance for the alloy rail.
@@michaelblackmore883 I did order this prouct. It is part of a system sold by a Chinese company called Wnew on Aliexpress. They even have their version of the MFT. It took some adapting to use with the Festool guide rail. The result were outstanding.
@@marklynch8781 Hi Mark, very interesting. What did you need to do to adapt it to the Festool rails? Mike
I think this is a situation where it depends on which side of the pond you live on. I can get the Dashboard, but Bench Dogs UK is a miss. Funny thing, having worked for a Festool supplier (Woodcraft) here in the US, was not able to find a part number to order for their rail hinge, at least from the part numbers given to us. Thanks for the review and your comments on each. I look forward to your homemade version.
Yes, makes a big difference, and good to - finally - have a choice! 👍
Interesting the way gaps in the market get filled.
Which 20mm router bit are you using? I already have the 346 Quad Hole Jig and I have been trying it out on a test piece. I have an Axminster bit and a Wealden Tool Company bit but they both make holes which are a bit sloppy with the Benchdogs bench dogs. However, this might not be an issue as the Quad Hole Jig does attach tightly but I am not going to drill any more holes in my MFT top until I receive the rail hinge (I am hoping very soon, as I am first batch). My MFT top was made using the Parf System and these holes are fine so I also have the option of drilling the extra holes using this. It is just that routing the holes is a lot easier than drilling them.
The router bit thing is a real issue - I’ve had a video planned for a while about it. I use the Festool bit, which bores an oversized hole, about 20.16/20.2mm; I had a precision engineer pal grind it down very carefully until it cut a snug fit for my benchdogs. There’s a longer story here - Festool never intended the MFT tops to be used for benchdogs, just for clamping, and to this day they don’t make a benchdog of their own - but essentially, there are many factors at play in getting a snug ~20mm hole and if you took my ‘perfectly tuned’ 20mm bit and put it in another router you’d probably get a different result. 🤷♂️👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thank you. I remember that you had mentioned that a router bit video is in planning. As I stated, I have options, I shall just have to wait and see.
@@10MinuteWorkshop A further thought. If there is an issue with 20mm router bits then the Parf System method of drilling does look better. I have just made a 1200mm by 850mm bench top for the Benchdog hinge system . My idea is to put it on top of my 1200mm by 610mm workbench (made before I knew about track saws and MFTs) with overhangs at the front and back. I drilled out most of the 20mm holes because once started why not keep going but my arm ached. Having received the Quad Hole Jig, I thought that it should be possible to make an after-market add-on template for the Parf System to use the accuracy of the 3mm hole grid but make the 20mm holes using a router. (I know that there are MFT templates to use with routers but my concern with them is cumulative errors.) However, if there is an issue with hole size then I shall have to stick drilling holes and aching arms.
Hi Robert, Yes the router bit is a minefield with getting the right one for the 20mm hole. I was chatting to Trend tools recently about this same issue and we are discussing a resolve for the "20mm hole bit" one thing to take into consideration with the holes a not to teach anyone to suck eggs but a major factor in the this is it's not always the bits and possible the router itself with the runout of the spindle 0.05 is enough to through it out too much so my advice is to as much as possible to have more of the shank in the collet to avoid as much runout.
@@RalphBD I have now bought a Trend 20mm router bit. I remembered that it was the bit that Andy Guile (aka The Woodgratfter) used to make his MFT top. It gives better results with the Benchdogs Quad Dogs tightening securely in the dog holes. I have made a prototype of my proposed jig from 9mm MDF and using the Trend bit I can cut a row of holes at 96mm spacings.
love the cringe when you touch the festool hinge. I have the same feelings
I don't see alot of people talk about height adjustment on the hinges. Can the benchdogs be used slightly loose in the back so it auto adjusts to the height of the material being cut or does it go out of square if you do so? Really the only thing stopping me from ordering, is I cannot get to the back of the bench before every cut.
Honestly, the only rail hinge I know of that allows that is my own design - available as a set of plans for a DIY project. 👍
There's one thing I noticed missing from all these commercial available. It's none of them. have auto Material thickness Adjustment. Every time you change the thickness of the material you want to saw, you have to resset it. Where as on my homemade version. I use to. use two fire rated door hinges. Welded together as one hinge in my case, But could be bolted together. at each end. of the track. They're the type with the ball bearings hinges. So they're very tight. No slop. So they're bolted to rail and table exrtusion at the rear end, But the front end version again uses Two hinges.again one side to rail and other side connected to a thin peice of ply with two dog holes in it to match table dog holes. so I can lift off the track. completely up out of the way, as the commercially versions do. I have to admit my version's not pretty. but I never need to do any adjustment. because the hinges are double. that allows. as they go up, they go back If you're doing something thinner. The rail just comes forward a little bit and drops more. I doubt it cost me as much as £20. for the four hinges. OK, I have the ability to Weld. but even woodworkers can bolt 2 hinges or drill them if holes do not match then connect them together. Alternative are you aware of these on bang good and. at only £61. I won't put the link. TH-cam never seems to allow me. But I'll put the name as they are advertised. Adjustable Rail Lift Clamps Unique Sliding Tenon Design Height Adjustable Ideal for Various Table Heights and Rails Ensures Sturdy.
My rail hinge does. Easy to remove the rail from the hinge too. 👍
Thanks for your lovely videos!
Thanks again, Peter!
Thanks Rob! Pleasure to feature a top quality product, as always. 👌 👍
Nicely we'll explained video Pete enjoyed it
Cheers Dan! 👍
Thank you for the comparision Peter. Can you provide some more info on BD hinge system. I have already ordered it but I found no info on what can be the maximum distance from the edge of the top to quad dogs center line. My planned diy mft will be built from aluminium extrusions so the edges of the top will sit on the extrusions which are 40mm wide and from the looks of it the quad base dogs might be in collision with that extrusions. Another question i have, is about depth of quad dog bases - just wondering if i can make a work around for the collisions by putting thicker top ie 21mm.
Thanks. I've made a few posts on Instagram about this, I'll link them up here.
instagram.com/p/CcheeH5j10V/?
instagram.com/tv/CckA_s3jXAv/?
instagram.com/tv/Ccmj_WSD2wb/?
Long story short you need 35mm from the edge to the 20mm hole centre, to allow space for the hinge/support hardware. HTH! P
Thanks Peter! 👍
After two BD hinge videos I am still missing anyone mentioning the calibration pin. Maybe I have to look for Ralph's manuals online but is it really possible to calibrate with the inner pin? And if so is it lost everytime you loosen the rail (maybe an OK sacrifice).
Thanks again Peter
Can someone explain the need for these expensive and in my opinion grossly overpriced rail hinges as opposed to 2 BD tapered dogs fitted to the rail and then into MFT bench holes. Is the minimal saving in setting up time worth the expense?
I’ve covered this at length in previous videos, most recently the Ikea Curtain track MFT build (link in description) but in short, if you’re in a small workshop and carry out many operations where the rail needs to be cleared to get your bench back for another process, then yes, just being able to lift up the rail and clear your bench is priceless. There are lots of other ways of getting a square cut - dogs and clips, rail dogs, rail square etc… but they all require you to take the rail away and put it *somewhere* between cuts; this isn’t insurmountable - see my recent ‘basic build’ of plywood shelves - but it definitely adds to the time taken, and it simply isn’t as convenient as a rail hinge. As I said in this and previous videos, I’m not trying to convince anyone of the benefits - you’re all adults, you can make up your own minds. And so will I. 👍
Thank you Peter for your comprehensive reply, I am suitably admonished!
Great video..!!! (as usual, thank you). Hey Peter, where did you get your watch strap?
Thanks Edgar! I’m going to have to start putting links in to this strap, I’m getting so many enquiries, lol! It’s a ‘double-tour’ (Hermes) knock-off from Amazon; nice strap! amzn.to/3yyDBBQ 👌
@@10MinuteWorkshop Hahaha..!! It's rather cool..!! You should.
thank you.
How accurate are these hinges? Can you just slap them onto your mft and they’ll be spot on or is there an element of setting up for accuracy each time you use them eg if taking a portable table to site?
The hinges are as accurate as you set them up to be. Fitting stops in the t-slots to locate them means you can remove and refit them with confidence - provided they were set up correctly at the start. 👍
I have the benchdogs hinge and im kinda disappointed with it. It gets slightly out of alignment easy and i have to check it befor i use it every time.
That’s not my experience with it and if you’re having issues then you need to tell Benchdogs directly. 👍👍
Thanks for the Review how about the cutting precision
Thanks! How about it? They cut as precisely as you set them up.🤷♂️ 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Good to know, Thank you! I thought the Festool one could be slightly more wobbly and less acurate
Ou trouver les hinge track saw au Canada mes tracks sont compatible style Festool
Where do you get the slop stop for a Festool rail for the Benchdog quad hinge system ?
Benchdogs!
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thanks. I will try them again. They did not seem to know about it when I asked them at the time I purchased my bench dog system. There response from tech support was did not think I needed them.
Customer service at Benchdog replied they never made one since it’s not needed. I’m confused since my original set up grooved the guide just as you had indicted when it was the steel pin by Festool.
A good review, unfortunately in the United States I have been unable to buy a Festool Hinge havebtalked to their dealers and they are not allowed to sell them. So one of the others is in my future.
Sorry to hear that. I suspect he dealers are being disingenuous; it’s available as a spare part - how else would MFT owners get spares? Part numbers are listed in the video description, if you google them or use Festool enkat parts catalogue you should be able to order them. Let me know how you get on.
Peter I did find it thanks to the part number. The part is 75.80 us
Hi Peter, just seen this version for guild rail using fire door hinges from ( Kings Workshop] have a look
Thanks, been around a while that one; OK for a permanent setup, not great if you need to remove the rail regularly. 👍👍
Hi Peter. Sorry this question is from an earlier video, but thought to post it here. You mentioned in a video the Spax M type screws for MDF and I followed the link in your comments (which seems to go to a different screw), and found the right product. My question is around the Torx drivers, am I right that they are proprietary to Spax with that extra protrusion? Amazon shows Spax bits, but they are not available in some sizes like T15. Are you aware of a set that Spax or somebody compatible offers?
Hi Gavin. No, they’re standard Torx fittings, any torx bit of the correct size will do. 👍
Super clear. Thank you.
In the great southern land we are midst federal election. I have just watched a clip of Boris stating that OAP that can't afford to heat their homes should be grateful for his bus passed. When I clicked on this the starting ad was a grab of our Prime Minister repeatedly telling people "its not my job".My daughter's favourite Scummoism is his response to a report stating that maternity resources were so neglected that women had to drive 2-3 hours often not making it and being forced to give birth beside the road. Scummo's response My government has spent millions upgrading the highway so it much safer to give birth on the highway than it was. I know we are independent and cut the apron strings long ago but for some reason I think there remains a deep bond between our 2 countries.
I do like the single lever to lock the Festool version, but, using a tool to lock in the rail has been a PITA (too much of a faf... :^). Love the beefiness of the Dashboard and not needing tools to install or remove (I have to work outside so each time I use my MFT it needs to be set up then taken down which puts a bias on my choices). Naturally I bought my Dashboard before the Bench Dogs version was released so that won't be an option for me. Yet. The one thing I won't like about the Bench Dog version: The T bolts to slide the rail on - I always seem to be fightying the T bolt to line up and would prefer a long rail like the other two use. An option they could offer later? Being in the US the Dash Board does not suffer the shipping and VAT hit; making it a much easier choice too.
Hello Peter . I wanted to ask what's that model of table saw is behind you and is still available to buy.
It was a shockingly bad saw from Lutz - I gave it away in the end, couldn’t bring myself to sell it to anyone. Don’t know if they’re still made, but avoid them if they are.
@@10MinuteWorkshop thank you for reply to me and for advice too . Regards 👍
Very informative, but did I miss the price of the benchdogs rail support
£180 inc VAT, preordering for batch number 6 I believe. 👍
great vids as always,where did you get those black mft tops from and what are they made of
Thanks! I made these ones, and they're from Finsa Fibracolour in anthracite. If you check out my instagram there are a couple of reels of me making this particular one, or the 'Ikea curtain track MFT' video (link in description) for the MFT top it was resting on. 👍
Hay Peter grate content as always mate 👌 👍, what is the length of the overhang on the benchdogs hinge, what sort of clearance do you think you would need to a back wall ?? ,thank you Peter your always a fantastic teacher of very inspiring knowledge 👏 cheers James
For the price of the dashboard. Would be real nice if it came with machined knobs instead of the plastic ones
Hi, Ordered from BenchDog UK. What do you think of these? Like your canal sharply. Greetings from Sweden
Benchdogs quad hinge is great., especially for anyone using a regular MNFT top or slab. 👍
Off topic: You should have an affiliate link for the double-wrap watch band. I couldn't stop staring at it and actually had to pause the video to look it up.
Haha! Maybe I should! 😂👍
Can the benchdog work with the Bora Centipede Workbench Table Top For Bora Centipede Work Stand Saw Horses with 20mm Dog Holes CK22TM?
That’s a question for Bora, or Benchdogs, wouldn’t you say?? 🤷♂️
I Can't see why not. as long as your holes are max 35mm from the edge should work a treat.
Pete, an MFT table.Seems to me its purpose serves 90, 45 i guess whatever you want. It very handy for clamping. Thats it. The amount of waste wood ive seen thrown after been given an example. Ive looked for vids on what tips, tricks and the so. Got cnc myself, chucked a load a money on what boils down to round bits of ali. Sorry Ralph ive spent fortunes. Any seen a Chesterfield or a Queen Ann. Dont think im having go at you. Iwatch everyone without fail. Im a hypocrite but im i missing something in advance. Stay safe.
Meant to thanks in advance
As I’ve said in this video and all the others, I’m not trying to sell anyone on the concept of an MFT; if you’ve decided it’s not for you then that’s fine. But it works well for me, and seems to work for others too. 🤷♂️ There’s a whole playlist of MFT - related videos, link in description, and if you want a basic introduction then the older videos 182 and 183 are a decent starting point. HTH. P
I understand that. That was your income and didnt take into consideration of course it would be ideal for you. As someone who is a couple of months in. I expected more. At least i only bouught the top and accessories because that table it stands on. Leave it there. Sorry to waste your time. Thanks.
Need to put that on a Tshirt, "If you're on a budget, buy Festool":D
I like the Benchdog's solution, however (in this video) you forgot to mention the additional tool (ideally) needed to make the extra holes which adds a few coins on top of the price.
That’d be a good t-shirt to wear at a trade show! 😂 Re the template, U think I showed pretty well in the previous video that you don’t need to buy the template to make the holes - but yes, it certainly made making them easier. 👍👍
Love your work 👍
"works with a wide range of guide rails"?
What spec T track please? Excepting curtain track? Rather crucial IMHO?
Sorry Dave I don't understand; you quote me about guiderails - which I describe in detail - then talk about t-track?? As I say in the vid, I went through all the specs in the 'extrusion confusion' video - linked in the description - so overkill to do it again here, wouldn't you say? 🤷♂️
@@10MinuteWorkshop Sorry Peter, I meant the T track onto which the rail fits (front and back of bench) rather than the rail on which the saw runs?
In particular the dashboard hinge. I don't think you cover this?
Rail hinge or rail square? What's the best in your opinion for job site
Depends entirely on what you’re doing; if it’s lots of repeat cuts and you can have a reasonably static bench set up, then rail
hinge. If you’re more mobile, and need to cut a variety of panels to different sizes, then rail square, and add in the repeat stop if you regularly need to do same-size cuts. 👍
Great review and I agree the Festool rail hinge is a bit ‘meh’. That wee bit of shaped plate to engage in the slot was perhaps optimistic when it comes to precision. I also find the height adjustment clamping lever a tad sketchy. Both the other products are clearly superior. The chap across the pond needs to licence production to a Brit!
Accuracy, repeatability and five cut test?
I know this is not rocket science and woodwork does not need the accuracy required of more demanding disciplines. But.
It would be good to know how to adjust, what to expect for’ reasonable’ or achievable accuracy and how it performs in terms of repeatability using 5 cut tests.
Have you covered this - have I missed it?
Best Regards
😀👍
Thanks Norman! Yes, I think Rob at Dashboard has looked at local production, but always difficult to deal with these things from afar. As for the 5-cut test, I've never done one on any MFT or any MFT top I've made -and I'm certainly not about to start on someone else's product - because it's almost impossible to create the kind of test conditions where the results would be quantifiable; I'm sure someone will, but it wont be me I'm afraid! 👍
Great video Peter. But is it possible that the non Festool rail hinges are terribly over engineered. You as many have used the MFT for years with great success. The hinge and receiver have worked flawlessly for you, and your cabinetry is amazing. Sometimes I think things are made better for sure, but perhaps a little “overkill”. Love your channel, have watched all your videos many times, I have learned so much. Keep up the good work!!
Thanks Les. Yes, I mentioned this last week in a member video where I was chatting about my own forthcoming DIY hinge, and I will say a few words on the topic when I make that public video. I don't think the Festool hinge is particularly great and it certainly doesn't look like it's been developed at all, but fair play to Festool for making a hinge that does the job, and that can be manufactured in volume at a relatively modest price - and that can be purchased as separate parts, rear hinge and front support. There's a certain 'spare' elegance to the design - not aesthetically, but from a manufacturing point of view, that's missing from the others, and yes, perhaps the other are over-engineered - but people do seem to like that, and I noticed that the Benchdogs hinge is now pre-ordering for the 7th production run; that's a lot of folks ready and willing to buy what they offer, so fair play to Benchdogs - and Dashboard - for filing that need. Thanks for taking the time to comment, and best wishes, Peter. 👍
Oh don’t get me wrong, if I didn’t live in Canada and afraid it would cost me my first born, I’d have had a plethora of Benchdogs kit, including that rail hinge, fence, dogs …lol
Ikea curtain track? What's the product name, please?
Links in the video description as always. IKEA Vidga triple track. 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Yep. I found it. Thank you.
Dashboard one can loose 25% weight and still be usefull. Useful cost reduction.
14:04 It's a shame Benchdogs didn't make their hinge with adjustable dog positions. I have a workbench with dog holes, but it's not MFT, which make this hinge useless to me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ All they had to do was use a slot instead of a hole.
Probably concerned about introducing play and affecting the squareness though they tend to be open to suggestions if you contact them. That said an MFT workbench that doesn’t conform to the 96mm hole spacing is a fairly niche product, and everything else MFT-related that Benchdogs make is on 96mm centres. 👍
I bet the reason why festol one is so poor is that they let the accountant in on the decision making in stead of locking him out or in his office
Rail hinges for Metabo?
Benchdogs yes, not sure about the Dashboard. 🤷♂️👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop thanks
Wait what? A ply rail hinge??? I wanna know more :)
It’s coming… 👍
Always a great review!
I would like to find one that only uses the holes on the top of the bench and not hang over the back at least.
My MFT is my table saw outfeed table. I can’t have it sit too far away from the saw and it is 3’x5’ on a heavy base, too heavy to move around.
If the beach dogs could stay flat to the table that would be awesome!!
Love it the Festool is the "cheap" alternative.🤣🤣🤣
😂 Couldn't bring myself to say it; had to go with 'least costly'... 🤷♂️ 😬
Unfortunately Dashboard don't take PayPal and then bill for shipping after they receive credit card details , and Benchdogs also want credit card details . That's a red flag for Aussies .
Not sure why you see it as a red flag - many companies need a card address before they can calculate eg VAT and shipping rates, and both Benchdogs and Dashboard are respected small companies with solid reputations. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Hi Peter . I've not had good experiences with overseas credit card transactions . Have been billed twice , charged exorbitant shipping and handling and finally had my details left on a retailer's old dumped computer and subsequently used by a scammer ; that was hassle for the Bank . My bank recommended dealing with intermediates like PayPal to avoid supplying details to a seller . So after 15 years of PayPal , I've only paid what I've sent . If Ebay sellers can declare a shipping price , so should a retailer be able to arrange such on their website . . it's not difficult for them to set it up . I've learnt to be mistrusting Peter . Yes , I miss out on stuff , but I'm not going back . Cheers, Neil in Brisbane 🙂
Must be a world record. A Festool is the crappiest and cheapest in a line up ...