3:33 The circuit is designed to carry 80% of the energy the circuit can carry, not 80% of the 2000 W power supply. So the correct math is 20 A * 120 V = 2400 W(what the circuit can carry) 2400 W * 0.8 = 1920 W (still less than 2000 W, but not 1760 W) It’s a silly mistake to calculate 80% of the power supply wattage :)
True, I don't know if they translate correctly into English, I learned them in French, I'm gonna try, It's a principle called Simultaneity & Utilisation factors. They are used for each circuit type in order to reduce the size and cost of the required high voltage transformer and size of cables to transmit the power. They are decided upon using standards like ISO, IEC, NF C 15-100 (for France), etc....
You are correct, thank you. Still less than 2000 watts as you said, but I believe we just typed the number into the script incorrectly. Sorry about that, and good catch. :)
In addition to the math of 80% of the circuit capacity for design and layout we also have to take into account that a typical breaker is designed to use an inverse-time curve and will only trip when the internal breaker temperature goes past a set threshold. It may take hours or even days to for a 20A rated breaker to trip at a continuous 21-25 amps. If we assume that an 80+ platinum 2000 watt PSU is 89% efficient at 100% load it could be pulling 2,000 W * 1.11 = 2,220 W from the wall and thus would be pulling 18.5A through the breaker and will never trip under normal operation unless the line supply voltage dropped below ~110V which would be out of spec for the North American standard of 120V +/- 5% The other thing to remember is that the NEC under rates wire gauges by more than 1/2 of the realistic max (for safety and worst case scenarios like a faulty breaker that trips too high) where you would need to worry about the PVC jacketing melting. For example, 12 AWG wire is rated at 41 amps for chassis wiring. All that being said, the majority of people don't need much over 750-850 Watts even for a high end gaming or workstation PC unless they are using multiple graphics cards.
And in some places, like here in Canada, our receptacles are on a 15A circuit. 15A * 120V =1800W or 12A at 80% which is 1440W, below even the somewhat popular 1600W power supplies.
if anyone is curious about the math just look at a space heater. They advertise 1500w. see what happens when you try to run two of them on one circuit.
@@cattech4050 yeah same. but no EU household has 400V in the outlet. between Phase to phase on a TN (Terra-Nuetral) grouding system theres 400V yes, but between phase and neutral there is 230V. We use TN because its cheaper to have more smaller wires that less bigger wires. i study this my guy.
I came here to say just this lol 240v 3000w 13A uk 3600w 15A euro from the wall. Also there are not 2 phases in the US it is 'split phase' our normal live neutral but they have a center tap to make 120v, and also yes, alot of places in euro do indeed have 3 phase as standard and also yes there's not normal an outlet for that, that would be a widow maker socket, it would be the euro equivalent of how amaricans see a 240v socket the age old argument continues with, is the the voltage or the amperes that kill, the answer ofcorse is both. Let the hunger games begin! Edit: my stupid touch screen keeps putting extra letters in!
I did accident blew-up a power supply when I was an intern (first year) at a small repair service. (back in 2009) A customer came in with a problem that their computer (tower) did not start-up. Little did he say that the PC was bought and used in the US before he brought it to us . (I live in Europe/Netherlands) So when I got it on the repair-desk and try to start it up. There was a on/off switch (witch wasn't common back then) and flip it on. A loud bang and some smoke emerge form the pc. (and the whole circuit breaker flips off from the building) I learned that there was a little small red switch on the back of the power supply. That flips to the accepted voltage to US (120 V) to Europe (230 V). And that was the cause. (also the costumer did not know the on/off switch was set on off.... ) After that and the (free) replacement of the power supply the computer works as if nothing happened. My mentor told me after that: At least once in your ICT career you accidentally breaks/blow-up something from a (costumer) PC. But that's the best way you learn to prevent that form happening again .
I had a PSU blow up when I was repairing a computer, but that wasn't my fault, it was just a faulty PSU and the customer couldn't work out why their PC wasn't working properly. It scared the hell out of me though, it was the first time I had ever seen that.
@@UltimateGattai there's a reason why you should only run a tier 1 PSU in any PC. PSUs blowing up is that reason. A PSU is no place to cheap out and try to save some money in a build. The house you stop from burning down will be yours.
@@iris4547 on 120 you can flip to 220 and the PSU just doesn't work. But nothing will blow up. Advantage goes to 120. New PSUs don't have the switch. They're universal. There's circuitry that switches automatically. Unless it's an old design. Either that or it'll run at the lower input voltage with a lower output power. A you get what you get situation. There it's advantage 220. SMPS does interesting juggling to output regulated DC at high current from AC input. They play with the P=IE formula. They keep E high on the primary size to get a high I out of the secondary. That's why they need that high input Voltage in the first place. It cuts down on the current they need to deal with.
@@EDLEXUS nah it would run cold as fuck because theres virtually no load in a home that could warm it up with all that headroom. The heat will be in the wall where the 15AWG wires set on fire.
Happy to live in Europe with 230V and 16A rating for power lines and outlets giving me 3.6kW on a single outlet. And if required, I have 3 phases available, allowing 11kW on a 3 phase 16A outlet without special measures. My whole house could draw up to 43kW before the main breaker trips.
@@tiger.98 3kW is not much. I don't know if anyone here has less than 24 kW. That would be a 100 amp disconnect. I've never seen any main service panel with less than that. 100 is a nice round number.
Limits of air cooling will save us from Nvidia's greed. We can't really go much further than this in power consumption, as stuffing larger heat sinks will start to suffer from some serious diminishing returns, and ultimately it doesn't matter how much thermal mass the heat sink has if it can't transfer any of it. That being said, I wouldn't put it past Nvidia to release 6090 as AIO only. With water cooling we could go up to 1000W at least.
@@MidWitPride i think it wont need to get too much higher than this in terms of power consumption, since efficiency is another thing thats been improving over the years
The previous owners of my parents' house were professors at a nearby university. One of them had a pottery workshop set up in the garage, so there's still the huge wall outlet they had set up to run the kiln. It's a 240 Volt one I think. That sucker is BIG.
There's 240V wall outlets in the US, they're not that common but basically all homes have the ability to add them as you already have 240V for appliances and the 120V outlets are only using half the transformer.
I have a 30 Amp 240V receptacle in almost every room of my house for plugging in AC window units. I also have central air so I have no actual use for those outlets. In the garage I run a large air compressor off of one. The rest just sit idle.
In north America we have 240v split phase which isn't necessarily compatible with devices built for 240 single phase as used in most of the rest of the world. Winding up with 120v between your computer chassis and your desk lamp chassis is sub-optimal.
Now you are basically comparing apples to oranges. It is not like we use only single phase system here in Europe either... But our mains voltage is 400. But since 230 V is fine for most things 400V plugs are only used when you *really* need power and usually employ all three phases and I think 3 phase 400 V plugs are commonly rated 16 A.
I can't say I don't have 15A outlets in my home. I have a dedicated one for the fridge, tankless heater / fireplace. While you can run 14 gauge for outlets the convention is outlets are on 20A circuits and lighting is on 15A circuits... with a recent change allowing 10A lighting circuits with NO outlets attached. Also the max continuous on a 20A is 1920W which is right at the edge of the max of this supply. No long as you have NOTHING else on the circuit it should be fine. The max intermittent is 2400W and that load can be maintained for 3 hours at a time per the NEC. One hack is kitchens need two circuits and they're often on a different leg and both together can often deliver 240V @ 20A.
You also could just install a 240V Outlet in your house, they already exist. It's what I did, but then again, I have a server rack with my computer in it.
It's one of those things in the NEC. You can have duplex 15amp outlets on a 20 amp circuit but simplex it must be 20A on a 20A circuit. So unless you see the breaker you don't know.
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Great video. As an old dog, James' age...it's insane what companies can get away with. Young people these days often don't know this knowledge because of the way companies are able to advertise products. Always here to upvote.
I have 40 Amp 240 V circuits. But I run big appliances off those. Like an electric stove. I have a couple 30A 240V circuits for window mounted air conditioners in the house to. And I have central air. So I don't need window mounted AC units.
1:19 What is funny about workstations is that an audio workstation cares about three things: 1) fastest processor you can afford (since audioprocessing is single core) 2) most mermory you can afford (to run all those samplelibraries) 3) most fast storage you can afford (to store all those libraries- - and samples - and projects). But as such an audioworkstation doesn't need a Xeon and multiple GPUS. In fact, you can run an audioworkstation perfectly fine on internal graphics. On multiple 4K screens. At 60 Hz. But with more memory and storage than a normal pc. Also, since I live in Europe, the power deviders I use (Brennestuhl) can carry 3500 W each. 230 V, 16 A, baby.
As someone who recently bought a beefy PSU, my answer is that I just cared more about efficiency than price per watt. A corsair AX1600i is titanium rated, it has an efficiency of 96% at the 300-800W range that I'm running it on. Comparing that to the 92% efficiency of a gold rated PSU, this means I'm saving up to 36W at my typical loads. Considering it's running nearly constantly due to data science tasks, it would take me only about a year to make my money back compared to a 2000W PSU that's 100€ cheaper. And since I plan on keeping it for at least half a decade, the savings will add up, and I won't have to worry about PSU wattage for a long time.
I literally am installing a 20A circuit in my office dedicated for my computer setup, not because I’m using something that needs such a beefy power supply, but because I have two setups (my personal and my work) plugging into the same existing circuit currently, and that circuit also powers my NAS and unfortunately the living room TV (because the previous owner apparently hired a discount electrician to install that outlet), so if I don’t pay attention to which things are on at the same time, it trips the breaker. 20A of headroom for all the computer stuff should be plenty.
Here in the UK our outlets would laugh in the face of 2kW. They are capable of supporting appliances up to 3kW each. Thats 230V x 13A. Also in reality, that 230V is just an accepted figure with a tollerance. The vast majority of outlets, when measured, will be closer to 240V so even more capable at the same current.
There is one small note you could have included, running a PSU on 240v will yield a marginally higher efficiency level as compared to 120v, so if you have the option to run your system on 240v you can take the power savings, but sadly a 240v UPS is expensive in NA and i like having a UPS and the margins we are talking about would take decades to begin to cover the power savings
i am an electrician. I run 20 amp circuits to each room of the house. i think it is criminal these days to run 15 amp circuits to a room and treason for multiple rooms.
How's your power bill prices over there? Most people I've talked to from Germany are trying to find ways to decrease their energy usage. I'd kill for some of the 400v lines you have over there. That and three phase. We can get 220 pretty easily in the states.
@@Justplanecrazy25 prices are not that high anymore. A little bit higher compared to pre-putins-illegal-invasion-of-ukraine, but its also 2 years later, and prices usually only go up ;) One can get a dynamic power contract and pays negative prices at summer daytime. Its not that bad. People complaining are just those who dont want to change provider and rather whine about it.
Come to the UK where standard wall socket in 13A x 240V or >3000W and the circuit is 32A - or get a Dryer 4 prong 220V circuit with an appropriate plug
In Australia and some other countries we have a limit such as 10A for outside the walls, such as a power board. Then we have a different rating for inside our walls, found at the switchboard. This might be 20A for example.
@@Diabhorknah, the no insulation on houses thing is more of a texas and such thing. You might be confusing that with buildings in europe somtimes having no additional insulation in mild climate countires, but that is because with stuff like hollow brick designs and such the building materials already insulate a good bit on their own.
I had to learn all this when I creating my living room gaming setup. Gaming PC plus TV, speaker system, and a window AC made me worry. I was just fortunate that the builders had the smart idea to put 20 amps on the living room circuit.
Light aren't always on the same circuit as the outlets and it's often code, depending on where you live, that they're on separate circuits. Besides, if you've switched over to LED lights, they draw a negligible amount of current anyways. Anyways, this is why, when I gutted the room where my computers are... ironically due to a botched wiring job by the previous owner, I ran two separate 20a circuits. Not that I have any intentions of running anything more that a 1600 watt PSU anyways. Just wanted to make sure that I never overload either circuit.
There are plenty of people in North America who run a 240v outlet to a server cabinet/UPS/network stack/servers. The marginal efficiency gains for gear that’s on 24/7 is worth it in the long run and it’s not that hard to DIY if you’re feeling frisky. While you’re at it you can run one (preferably two) dedicated 240 outlets to your garage while you’re at it for them new dangled pixie powered electric cars.
In the early 2010s I purchased a desktop rig from a friend for about $900. The PSU was 1,200 watts, which was beyond overkill for its time. It will still be overkill in 10 years. I cannot imagine a 2K PSU ever mattering for 99% of home users.
You obviously missed the part of the video where they said the highest power efficiency is at around 40% of max. Therefore, for a 1200w power supply, the sweet spot is about 500w used by the computer. If your computer uses more than that, you will start to lose power efficiency. Leaving your computer idle a long time would be bad as well, which is why I shut down my computer when it is not in use.
@@necrolord1920 I listened to that part. My friend's rig contained parts which did not need so much wattage. Ten years later, my own rig uses an estimated 350-400 watts. To my understanding, this falls below the 40% threshold. Perhaps I am doing the calculation wrong - I'm just going off the numbers stated for the various parts.
1300 kinda bare minium now. I have 2 pcs that can easily pull 1200watts from the wall and they be 4 years old. Scared to see what a current gen pc could pull from the wall.
Yes - I knew there were 2000w PSU's. Saw one at the Seasonic website when I was looking up info for another model of PSU. I have it's 1600w " Little " brother ; I should be good for a while. Seasonic is my default PSU brand. I have had 7 PSU's so far - various power ratings - various 80+ ratings.
Biggest reason is that in the U.S. at least, the usual power delivery to an outlet or room cannot handle a 2K watt power supply. I had my room have a 'brown out' with a 1K watt heater going and my 800 watt power supply drawing only 300 watts at the time.
in Canada, by the electrical code, @120V, even 15A circuit should be only load at 80% capacity... so max watt per 15A outlet is 1500W, and 20 amp outlet 1920W....
A good set of speakers can soak up an outlet easily. Always put speakers on a seperate outlet IMO, as a sudden bass rumble can overload everything else on that circuit.
I work in PV (Solar) residential inverters start at 3k for power generation. This power supply is 1kw less than the smallest residential inverter that powers a small house.
This is why you put this sort of computer in a server room with its own dedicated circuit. For typical homes, this circuit would get both sides of one phase, which is 240V. The wall receptacle is usually something like L6-30R. Get an electrician if you're unsure.
Huh... I did not expect that that high wattage power supplies would consume not efficiently, if they do not consume that much compared to their avg-max wattage. Thanks for the video!
I find this funny. I actually specced my home office for 20amp wiring and breaker, since I have multiple PCs, a server, and other things running in the office at once.
Yeah... Glad he mentioned the P=VA formula. It makes no sense in NA to get a 2000W PSU, unless you have a 20A circuit to power it. Which in turn requires more than just changing the breaker in your electrical box. Since most of the wires in your walls are generally about 12AWG to 14AWG. You'd probably want 10AWG wiring for that 20A breaker to ensure the wires don't just start melting in your walls and cause a fire. Better to go slightly overkill than to go right on specs.
@djchristian82 becouse Awg is a measurement we use in North america, lol, and for some reason, it was decided the smaller the number, the bigger the wire, for example 2/0 awg is bigger then 12 awg
Some even moderately sized supplies are able to run on 220 or 240 volt power and are more efficient on those voltages than on 110 or 120 volts. So if you really need more than 1000 watts, might want to consider using a dryer or welder plug instead which operate at 240 volts.
In the US we do have 240 volt outlets however they are usually reserved for High draw appliances like electric stoves, air conditioners, electric vehicle chargers etc
Mostly cause those are mining power supplies and they have like 1 24 pin board connector, 1pci and like 10 6+2 pin connectors and a sata cable for a basic spinner drive. Also not modular so there is no way to get rid of the 7 extra cables you wouldn't need. These would power 10-12 low power GPUs no problem or 6 cards with two plugs each. 4 with 3plugs etc. Really only relevant to crypto mining. People who do work on their computers for actual business use real power supplies from reputable companies.
I have a 1600 EVGA 80+ gold. Used to mine with a 3090 TI, 3080 TI, 3070 LHR (duel mining), and a 3060. Was pretty profitable for a while then when it wasn't sold all cards except 3090TI. Was pulling 1k watts tho while mining in my apartment.
A lot of 15 amp receptacles are actually run with wire that can handle 20 amps. See 15 amp receptacles on 20 amp breakers a lot too. You'd still definitely want that on a dedicated circuit with nothing tryna suck up on it tho.
There's no way anyone is going to put the heavier gauge wire in where it isn't needed because it simply costs too much to do. It's a 33% price increase.
@@1pcfred idk what to tell you dawg. I almost never see 14/2. See 12/2 all day long. 15 amp receptacles all day long. A mix of 15 amp and 20 amp breakers all day long. We don't carry really any 15 amp breakers on our trucks because whenever we've had to replace them they tend to be wired up to #12.
one of the key point that missed out in this vid was the high wattage drawn on a low rating 15~20A outlet is the rating of the powerline/grid of the wall might be smaller with a thin jacket aka sleeves of the power core and that can lead to fire hazzard due to overheating
Couple of weeks ago I had a discussion with someone, who said it would make sense to go as overkill as possible on the PSU, to have headroom and that 1600w is what he is using for his gaming PC, while it wasnt even a high end system. Headroom is good to have, but too much headroom is just wasting something. I mean, when you build a house you might want some extra space, but you wouldn´t want 8 meter high ceilings as headroom, unless you want to have a pet girraffe.
The circles i move through tend to be low to mid end rigs (i.e. barely anyone has a 3080/4080). I'm one of the very few that reaches 400w, because i have a 12700f that tops out at 180w (No AMD CPU goes that high). I strongly discourage them from getting a 1000w and just use the money to get a lower watt PSU that's a known quality brand. 550w would still work (If you have a branded one, don't upgrade), and a 750w is way more than enough for anything. If you have a 5600x and a 4060, there is no way you're drawing anywhere close to 400w at full load.
I have a 4090 on a 1100W power supply and I operate fine. Even using a 7880X3D I never had any problems. My only limitation would be overclocking the GPU voltage, but honestly, on a 4090, only if it's for science kkkk.
I was running a 2KW power supply for 9 years. Nowadays it isn't needed anymore. My current PC is more powerful, yet uses less than half the amount of power. No more watercooled loop with tripple SLI GPU and an OCed CPU.
My one workstation has dual 1600W PSUs from the era before larger ones, and I just have two breakers and two PSUs going to it, lol… another is dual 1600W on a UPS that can do 3600W and connects to a 230V/30A breaker line XD I hope they start making 3000-3200W PSUs so I can simplify my setups (the combination boards for dual PSUs kinda scare me tbh)
The whole power draw thing is so alien to me as someone from the UK. I’m used to never having to worry about power draw from sockets. I can have multiple powerful kitchen appliances connected to the same circuit with no issues, it’s not even something I’ve ever rlly considered
The power cost thing is alien as well because power is cheap in most places and even if LTT's claims on increased idle power usage are true if you do the math the gains are usually a dollar to maybe 10 dollars a year in increased cost. Math is a increasingly lost skill in the PC space.
@@Hybris51129 idk about power cost, I understand wanting to keep power usage low. Saving a little here and there adds up across the house and if you’re paying a variable rate it makes sense. Personally I’m paying a fixed monthly rate for all my bills so within reason I don’t have to worry but I still understand what it’s like to want to save as much as possible on bills
@@ThisWillCharacter The important point is to be realistic and do the math. Then once you have an answer you can see if spending hundreds of dollars on underpowered PSU's is worth saving a few bucks a year verses buying one high output one and being able to keep it for a decade.
Depends on the house/apartment. My last rented apartment had kitchen, balcony and living room on one circuit breaker. Running the microwave, water kettle, electric BBQ and Plasma TV at the same time was guaranteed to trip the circuit breaker.
Wrong about the wiring. It has been standard to run 20A circuits for bedrooms for quite a long time. The outlets are only rated for 15A and the cables that plug into those outlets are only rated for 15A.
And americans bragging their 220 primary voltage seem to forget that in Europe the primary voltage is 400, and there are 3 phase 400 volt plugs, should one need more power than a regular old 230 socket can provide.
Truth be told, I am thinking about new PC, but I am considering RTX 4060 ti or maybe up to RTX 4070 ti super.... but The issue is: power bills - that are only getting up & up. So, it is not like I can not afford 4090 ti super or whatever. I just don't think 4K is worth it to pay 1000% more for electricity. Ideally, I would want to have up to 450 or 500 Watt PSU. So I am rather aiming for the best performance per watt for as long as it is within reasonable max TDP.
@@PalassCat It is not like my PC uses some huge amounts of power, but rather well... there are a lot of electrical devices being used and it all "stacks". If most of devices I use will be more energy efficient, then electrify bill will be smaller. Per year, it may be even a substantial amount of cash being saved that way. PC is only one of the devices and it is no exception - it needs to be as much power efficient as possible.
@@Tommy_The_Gun unlike server equipment the PC doesn't run at full power 24/7 unless you have some serious gaming addiction. Or the PC is outdated and runs as hot as it can while surfing the internet or doing some daily tasks. I am currently using GTX1050 as a placeholder and it is always running at 70-80 degrees C, I can feel it warming my knees under the table, and it can rise the temperature in the room for 1 or 2 degrees, that is absolutely a waste of energy. RTX40xx would stay cold as a rock under the same amount of load and save energy by NOT heating my room while I'm using Blender or AutoCAD or playing some 10 year old games. All the electrical energy consumed by PC components goes into either moving the air or heating it (or emitting radiowaves but we can ignore it), so as long as components are not acting as electric heaters they can't draw a lot of power no matter how power hungry they might be under a serious load.
I have a Seasonic 650W PSU that's working perfectly with my RTX 4070 Ti Super (and R7 7800X3D). I wouldn't go for any less than 650, though. Preferably 750.
The multiple room thing hurts. I have that 4090 paired with an intel & 4 monitors. Never had to dig into the circuit panel the (multiple) years before, but after a month-ish with everything setup & trying COD:Warzone, found out quick the room only has 15A & the wall is shared with the next, with the 70in TV & Xbox. And even the lighting is wired into it. For 3yrs that never happened on the 4790k/GTX1070 machine. It became common enough I bought a UPS. Even vacuuming while blaring the Logitech Z906's became sketch.
yeah this checks out. I have a 1600w titanium power supply. watching youtube without frame generation uses as much power as going balls out. Also my breaker flips if I look at it funny because theres other loads in the room. Mostly cooling fans and the internet but also the surge protection and backup batteries lol.
Do you know what they call a machine with 2000W power draw? A heater! You'd better have some good AC to deal with the heat coming off this bad boy. Oh, and yeah, just as mentioned, the AC would need its own circuit so as not to trip the breaker.
For context, I recently downloaded Final Fantasy 16 for Steam and it's really demanding on my PC. It got me thinking of when might be the time to upgrade. I don't intend to upgrade now or buy the game as I have it on PS5 but it got me wondering when would be a good time. DDR6 could be mainstream by the time I do consider upgrading (and also around the time my kids might use my old PC for school etc). Stuff like GPU can be upgraded annually and more or less any time but every now and then there are leaps forward say in CPU, ram, and thus the motherboard. So when should people looking to upgrade maybe in the next 3-5 years decide it's better to wait for the next big upgrade? DDR5 will be around for a fair while I know and it probably won't make a massive difference, yet it would be a bit of a bummer to get say DDR5 and within a year DDR6 stuff is coming out. My question isn't specific as to now but when is it worth waiting and when it's not worth waiting.
A power supply.. 1000 w it was supposedly for like three crossfire.... But they all got it wrong and they still got it wrong from the start of the Rtx problem.. so yea
YEAH! North America 120V, Most of the REST of the WORLD? It's Variable Between 210- 250 Volts (Even Though it says 240Volts), and It's DYNAMIC in Australia!😁
@@1pcfred wouldn't that actually be more like 2 phase? Here in Europe it is 230 from phase to ground, and phase to phase primary voltage goes all the way to 400...
@@JuhoJohansson-bz3jb it's single phase. So hot to neutral is split phase. It's all just one phase. You can't make multiple phases out of one phase. Well, you can, but it's not trivial to do. You'd need a phase converter to do that. Off the transmission line there's a step down transformer that's center tapped. The center tap is neutral. Half of 240 is 120 and that's where 120V circuits come from. They're live to neutral. Hot to hot single phase is 240V though.
nope i have 1500w psu that most of the time my full load is 200-300w max (on the power meter on the outlet) the only downside i can say is the lazy fan since doesn't turned on cause of low load and also there are rails if they don't have load they don't work and don't consume power ... i have it btw since i had replaced a faulty 850w psu and with the same money got that 1500w and have it since 2007 ,done 3 system upgrades and still use it cause of reliability and always use my pc with UPS. The only real reason why i will replace the psu is to get one with better efficiency model like 80+ platinum or the newest cybernetics certification (mine had 80+ bronze and was the best at the time)
To add insult to injury, to run such a 2000 W power supply at full rated output of 2000 W will need more like about 2200 W from the wall, so even more amps than shown here. This is because the 2000 W is the output power, and because the power supply is not 100% efficient (but more like 90% for such a high-end PSU). Even in the 230 V land: This is, by the way, still marginally more than the continuous power rating of the standard quality German 'Schuko' plug for loads beyond an hour or so (which many people with EV home charging have had to learn the hard way, though usually more like at 3000 W), and calls for a higher quality “Super Schuko” plug (which looks identical but has higher ratings for its internals). So, if you are really running such PSU at 100% load for hours on end, you might want to at minimum change your worn and old wall socket to a new pristine one, possibly one with higher continuous load rating.
@@djchristian82 It is just a socket with a higher sustained current rating. Though, that particular name for it might be mostly known in Finland. (The standard 16 A Schuko is really only suitable for 8 A for arbitrary durations under long-term use for hours on end. Mostly as the contacts could have worm down a bit with use and the socket will then run quite warm under higher currents.) There is no formal standard for what counts as Super Schuko (but typical plugs seem to promise a reasonable maximum heat up with some large over current like 25 A for some long duration like 6 hours.
I have an 850w psu, my computers total current draw at full load is around 600w at most, so I have a 250w overhead, and running my air conditioner and pc at full load trips the circuit breaker in my apartment.
We need to stop such ridiculous trend, of failure-prone computers drawing more power than a washing machine when the electric oven is turned on. During the summer, use of an Air Conditioner becomes mandatory - only to avoid our studio changing into a sauna. I ditched Windows and its ecosystem about one year and half ago. I don't do high level gaming. I have a number of Linux-on-ARM computers now, and the main one has no fan, only a passive heatsink, because it has a 10 Watt TDP. The way the market is trending, mostly because of an unsustainable benchmark race, must stop before the machines burn down. Most of the show is fake. When I realised that hyperthreading was an intentional collective deception - well before the self-appointed "experts" did - I begun the difficult migration toward what I consider the true computers of the 21st century. It has been hard. But as soon I saw this video, I couldn't resist from writing this very appropriate and deserved comment, with a smile hidden under the mustaches. I wish great success to you all! Greetings, Anthony
Well I would say the main reason is because no one really needs or like at all needs a 2000W power supply in their gaming PC. Like sure I have 1350W power supply but that’s because I’m running multiple graphics card and a powerful workstation great CPU with many storage devices. But I have multiple graphics cards because I do also do crypto mining with my personal PC along with hard drive mining and like the rest of my farm😅
Mexico is not on our grid. Neither is Texas for that matter. But Canada and the USA do share the electrical grid. There's actually 8 of them. Canada shares 3 with the USA. Mexico electric is some janky stuff as I understand it. They're in the same boat a lot of countries are. Where the grid fluxuates between brown and blackout. They have power, kinda.
The United States uses 120V single-phase alternating current (AC) power in most households. This type of power is a two-wire circuit that consists of one power wire and one neutral wire. The voltage between the power wire and the neutral wire is 120V, and the current oscillates between +120V and -120V 60 times per second Throughout North America, homes are powered by 120-volt single-phase electricity. A typical residential circuit breaker box reveals four wires coming into our homes: two “hot” wires, a neutral wire and ground. The two "hot" wires carry 240 VAC, which is used for heavy appliances like electric ranges and dryers The United States uses 120-volt single-phase electricity in homes because it was an early adopter of electric lighting in a city with rapid population growth. By the time tungsten bulbs became widely available, the industry had already built too many 110-volt circuits to switch over. The US also adopted Edison's lower voltage over Tesla's higher voltage due to safety concerns, which were fueled by a PR campaign led by Edison
well voltage wasnt standardized when the us power grid was built, we landed on 220V-250V as the standard afterward. simply put, to switch to the global standard would cost too much since EVERYTHING that is built for 120 will need to be rebuilt or modified for 220V-250V. also the us AC power runs at 60Hz, most of the rest of the world runs on 50Hz. that means even the NON-120V stuff will have to be rebuilt or modified to run at 50Hz. so basically yall cant change to the global standard.
Every house in the United States is wired at 230V. The difference is that the average home is set up with a center tap transformer that splits the power phase into two 115V lines, or use a bridging circuit breaker to get the full 230V. Technology Connections has a detailed video on why this is and how it's done. The average consumer can call an electrician and have a 230V circuit installed for a computer very easily if desired.
Okay chatgpt Anyway it’s because that’s just how the history turned out and that’s it. There’s no technical merit other than 60hz cycles being superior.
Aren't power supplies at optimal efficiency if they're running about half of max-rated power? So, if your high-end PC eats 1000W, then you WOULD want a 2000W PSU...
3:33 The circuit is designed to carry 80% of the energy the circuit can carry, not 80% of the 2000 W power supply.
So the correct math is
20 A * 120 V = 2400 W(what the circuit can carry)
2400 W * 0.8 = 1920 W (still less than 2000 W, but not 1760 W)
It’s a silly mistake to calculate 80% of the power supply wattage :)
True, I don't know if they translate correctly into English, I learned them in French, I'm gonna try,
It's a principle called Simultaneity & Utilisation factors. They are used for each circuit type in order to reduce the size and cost of the required high voltage transformer and size of cables to transmit the power. They are decided upon using standards like ISO, IEC, NF C 15-100 (for France), etc....
You are correct, thank you. Still less than 2000 watts as you said, but I believe we just typed the number into the script incorrectly.
Sorry about that, and good catch. :)
In addition to the math of 80% of the circuit capacity for design and layout we also have to take into account that a typical breaker is designed to use an inverse-time curve and will only trip when the internal breaker temperature goes past a set threshold. It may take hours or even days to for a 20A rated breaker to trip at a continuous 21-25 amps.
If we assume that an 80+ platinum 2000 watt PSU is 89% efficient at 100% load it could be pulling 2,000 W * 1.11 = 2,220 W from the wall and thus would be pulling 18.5A through the breaker and will never trip under normal operation unless the line supply voltage dropped below ~110V which would be out of spec for the North American standard of 120V +/- 5%
The other thing to remember is that the NEC under rates wire gauges by more than 1/2 of the realistic max (for safety and worst case scenarios like a faulty breaker that trips too high) where you would need to worry about the PVC jacketing melting. For example, 12 AWG wire is rated at 41 amps for chassis wiring.
All that being said, the majority of people don't need much over 750-850 Watts even for a high end gaming or workstation PC unless they are using multiple graphics cards.
And in some places, like here in Canada, our receptacles are on a 15A circuit.
15A * 120V =1800W
or 12A at 80% which is 1440W, below even the somewhat popular 1600W power supplies.
if anyone is curious about the math just look at a space heater. They advertise 1500w. see what happens when you try to run two of them on one circuit.
*chuckles in 220-250V*
Me in the eu with 400v 3 phase
Actually in the US they also have 240V between phases. @electroboom actually did an adapter for this, and it works, although a bit dangerous 😂
@@cattech4050 yeah same. but no EU household has 400V in the outlet. between Phase to phase on a TN (Terra-Nuetral) grouding system theres 400V yes, but between phase and neutral there is 230V. We use TN because its cheaper to have more smaller wires that less bigger wires. i study this my guy.
@@ESINNISEESIN yes. but no consumer gets this in the wall. atleast not households. factories may use 240 or 400.
I came here to say just this lol 240v 3000w 13A uk 3600w 15A euro from the wall. Also there are not 2 phases in the US it is 'split phase' our normal live neutral but they have a center tap to make 120v, and also yes, alot of places in euro do indeed have 3 phase as standard and also yes there's not normal an outlet for that, that would be a widow maker socket, it would be the euro equivalent of how amaricans see a 240v socket the age old argument continues with, is the the voltage or the amperes that kill, the answer ofcorse is both. Let the hunger games begin! Edit: my stupid touch screen keeps putting extra letters in!
I did accident blew-up a power supply when I was an intern (first year) at a small repair service. (back in 2009)
A customer came in with a problem that their computer (tower) did not start-up.
Little did he say that the PC was bought and used in the US before he brought it to us . (I live in Europe/Netherlands) So when I got it on the repair-desk and try to start it up.
There was a on/off switch (witch wasn't common back then) and flip it on.
A loud bang and some smoke emerge form the pc. (and the whole circuit breaker flips off from the building)
I learned that there was a little small red switch on the back of the power supply. That flips to the accepted voltage to US (120 V) to Europe (230 V).
And that was the cause. (also the costumer did not know the on/off switch was set on off.... )
After that and the (free) replacement of the power supply the computer works as if nothing happened.
My mentor told me after that: At least once in your ICT career you accidentally breaks/blow-up something from a (costumer) PC. But that's the best way you learn to prevent that form happening again .
What that switch does is wire in a voltage doubler circuit. At 120V the doubler is on and at 230 the doubler is off.
had a friend do the same back in the early 2000's, flipped it over to 120v on a 240v outlet and she blew smoke.
I had a PSU blow up when I was repairing a computer, but that wasn't my fault, it was just a faulty PSU and the customer couldn't work out why their PC wasn't working properly. It scared the hell out of me though, it was the first time I had ever seen that.
@@UltimateGattai there's a reason why you should only run a tier 1 PSU in any PC. PSUs blowing up is that reason. A PSU is no place to cheap out and try to save some money in a build. The house you stop from burning down will be yours.
@@iris4547 on 120 you can flip to 220 and the PSU just doesn't work. But nothing will blow up. Advantage goes to 120. New PSUs don't have the switch. They're universal. There's circuitry that switches automatically. Unless it's an old design. Either that or it'll run at the lower input voltage with a lower output power. A you get what you get situation. There it's advantage 220. SMPS does interesting juggling to output regulated DC at high current from AC input. They play with the P=IE formula. They keep E high on the primary size to get a high I out of the secondary. That's why they need that high input Voltage in the first place. It cuts down on the current they need to deal with.
if you have a system that needs 2000w, the you have bigger problems than your power supply
RTX 6090ti FE SUPER OC 8GB will need this
Two RTX4090s, if they can _both_ fit inside the case and be rigged for SLI.
Yeah, 2000W of waste heat
yeah you have a zoning problem because you need to be in a commercial building LMAO
@@EDLEXUS nah it would run cold as fuck because theres virtually no load in a home that could warm it up with all that headroom. The heat will be in the wall where the 15AWG wires set on fire.
Happy to live in Europe with 230V and 16A rating for power lines and outlets giving me 3.6kW on a single outlet.
And if required, I have 3 phases available, allowing 11kW on a 3 phase 16A outlet without special measures.
My whole house could draw up to 43kW before the main breaker trips.
My house is 48 kW. I have a typical service too. 200 Amps. Some houses have double what I have.
correct me if I'm wrong, but should 3 phase 16 amp plug allow for 19 kW, if the load is connected in delta?
@@JuhoJohansson-bz3jb You are absolutely right.
Yeah 230v is cool, but in Italy the median house has just a 3kW service...
@@tiger.98 3kW is not much. I don't know if anyone here has less than 24 kW. That would be a 100 amp disconnect. I've never seen any main service panel with less than that. 100 is a nice round number.
RTX 6090: *I am inevitable*
Limits of air cooling will save us from Nvidia's greed. We can't really go much further than this in power consumption, as stuffing larger heat sinks will start to suffer from some serious diminishing returns, and ultimately it doesn't matter how much thermal mass the heat sink has if it can't transfer any of it. That being said, I wouldn't put it past Nvidia to release 6090 as AIO only. With water cooling we could go up to 1000W at least.
I can't wait for the rtx 10090txi. It's going to have 1 million teraflops of power
I was kidding 😂😭
@@MidWitPride i think it wont need to get too much higher than this in terms of power consumption, since efficiency is another thing thats been improving over the years
I miss when the x90 was a dual gpu card and the titans were our monoliths. I also miss having barely a reason to save for 2 to 4 gpus.
Laughs in European 3600W household breaker.
In the UK they are 7200W for socket breakers because of our ring wiring
Where you're appalled that we would put an outlet near the bathroom sink.
Us Americans could get a 3600w outlet. They're usually 120v 30amp outlets. It's rare and I've only seen them on some welders.
The previous owners of my parents' house were professors at a nearby university. One of them had a pottery workshop set up in the garage, so there's still the huge wall outlet they had set up to run the kiln. It's a 240 Volt one I think. That sucker is BIG.
Miningboom is over, thats why.
But the AI waifu's needs are endless. Just keep stacking up that 3090 Jenga tower for more fast VRAM.
Talk about a high maintenance girlfriend.
Yeah outside of heavy professional use with multi GPU setups, with mining dead there is basically no use for them in the home.
Yeah and AI workloads use less power in comparison
@@MidWitPride Yes, but they are in legitimate data centres with Megawatt mains supplies.
There's 240V wall outlets in the US, they're not that common but basically all homes have the ability to add them as you already have 240V for appliances and the 120V outlets are only using half the transformer.
I have a 30 Amp 240V receptacle in almost every room of my house for plugging in AC window units. I also have central air so I have no actual use for those outlets. In the garage I run a large air compressor off of one. The rest just sit idle.
In north America we have 240v split phase which isn't necessarily compatible with devices built for 240 single phase as used in most of the rest of the world. Winding up with 120v between your computer chassis and your desk lamp chassis is sub-optimal.
Now you are basically comparing apples to oranges. It is not like we use only single phase system here in Europe either... But our mains voltage is 400. But since 230 V is fine for most things 400V plugs are only used when you *really* need power and usually employ all three phases and I think 3 phase 400 V plugs are commonly rated 16 A.
I can't say I don't have 15A outlets in my home. I have a dedicated one for the fridge, tankless heater / fireplace. While you can run 14 gauge for outlets the convention is outlets are on 20A circuits and lighting is on 15A circuits... with a recent change allowing 10A lighting circuits with NO outlets attached.
Also the max continuous on a 20A is 1920W which is right at the edge of the max of this supply. No long as you have NOTHING else on the circuit it should be fine. The max intermittent is 2400W and that load can be maintained for 3 hours at a time per the NEC.
One hack is kitchens need two circuits and they're often on a different leg and both together can often deliver 240V @ 20A.
You also could just install a 240V Outlet in your house, they already exist. It's what I did, but then again, I have a server rack with my computer in it.
Yeah I see 15 amp receptacles on 20 amp circuits ALL DAY.
@@cablefeed3738honestly, code should just mandate at least one pair of 240v outlets, in all rooms.
It's one of those things in the NEC. You can have duplex 15amp outlets on a 20 amp circuit but simplex it must be 20A on a 20A circuit.
So unless you see the breaker you don't know.
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Is this some sort of North American joke I'm too European to understand?
Great video. As an old dog, James' age...it's insane what companies can get away with. Young people these days often don't know this knowledge because of the way companies are able to advertise products. Always here to upvote.
We use 220V at 20A volts here in Egypt. Never had a break popped on me before.
I have 40 Amp 240 V circuits. But I run big appliances off those. Like an electric stove. I have a couple 30A 240V circuits for window mounted air conditioners in the house to. And I have central air. So I don't need window mounted AC units.
@@1pcfredin large parts of Europe stuff like electric stoves, heat pumps etc. are all 3 phase 400V connected.
@@Esablaka fortunately we don't have to deal with that nonsense here. Single phase is very easy to work with.
1:19 What is funny about workstations is that an audio workstation cares about three things: 1) fastest processor you can afford (since audioprocessing is single core)
2) most mermory you can afford (to run all those samplelibraries) 3) most fast storage you can afford (to store all those libraries- - and samples - and projects).
But as such an audioworkstation doesn't need a Xeon and multiple GPUS. In fact, you can run an audioworkstation perfectly fine on internal graphics. On multiple 4K screens. At 60 Hz.
But with more memory and storage than a normal pc. Also, since I live in Europe, the power deviders I use (Brennestuhl) can carry 3500 W each. 230 V, 16 A, baby.
As someone who recently bought a beefy PSU, my answer is that I just cared more about efficiency than price per watt. A corsair AX1600i is titanium rated, it has an efficiency of 96% at the 300-800W range that I'm running it on. Comparing that to the 92% efficiency of a gold rated PSU, this means I'm saving up to 36W at my typical loads. Considering it's running nearly constantly due to data science tasks, it would take me only about a year to make my money back compared to a 2000W PSU that's 100€ cheaper. And since I plan on keeping it for at least half a decade, the savings will add up, and I won't have to worry about PSU wattage for a long time.
I literally am installing a 20A circuit in my office dedicated for my computer setup, not because I’m using something that needs such a beefy power supply, but because I have two setups (my personal and my work) plugging into the same existing circuit currently, and that circuit also powers my NAS and unfortunately the living room TV (because the previous owner apparently hired a discount electrician to install that outlet), so if I don’t pay attention to which things are on at the same time, it trips the breaker. 20A of headroom for all the computer stuff should be plenty.
Here in the UK our outlets would laugh in the face of 2kW. They are capable of supporting appliances up to 3kW each. Thats 230V x 13A. Also in reality, that 230V is just an accepted figure with a tollerance. The vast majority of outlets, when measured, will be closer to 240V so even more capable at the same current.
There is one small note you could have included, running a PSU on 240v will yield a marginally higher efficiency level as compared to 120v, so if you have the option to run your system on 240v you can take the power savings, but sadly a 240v UPS is expensive in NA and i like having a UPS and the margins we are talking about would take decades to begin to cover the power savings
Europe, 230V at 16A. Solves all your north american problems.
some european rooms are only 230v 10a
@@gamecubeplayer still enough
..okay? How does that help anyone in North America?
Europe power is pretty good minus 50hz though
thats usually only for lights, at least in germany its 230/16. or use real mans power: 400/16 3 phase.@@gamecubeplayer
i am an electrician. I run 20 amp circuits to each room of the house. i think it is criminal these days to run 15 amp circuits to a room and treason for multiple rooms.
my home only has a single room that's not only wired to a 15a circuit but all of my home's lighting is also wired to that 15a fuse
"I call myself an electrician"
2 kilowatts? We over here in germany can plug that into any outlet in the entire house all day long. We do really love our 230V / 16A
How's your power bill prices over there? Most people I've talked to from Germany are trying to find ways to decrease their energy usage.
I'd kill for some of the 400v lines you have over there. That and three phase. We can get 220 pretty easily in the states.
@@Justplanecrazy25 prices are not that high anymore. A little bit higher compared to pre-putins-illegal-invasion-of-ukraine, but its also 2 years later, and prices usually only go up ;) One can get a dynamic power contract and pays negative prices at summer daytime. Its not that bad. People complaining are just those who dont want to change provider and rather whine about it.
@@ShimadaSharraPutin is a hero
how many hz?
Come to the UK where standard wall socket in 13A x 240V or >3000W and the circuit is 32A - or get a Dryer 4 prong 220V circuit with an appropriate plug
In Australia and some other countries we have a limit such as 10A for outside the walls, such as a power board.
Then we have a different rating for inside our walls, found at the switchboard. This might be 20A for example.
Mfw North Americans can't use 3kW kettles or space heaters.
mfw euros have a dedicated water boiling machine and no insulation in their house
@@Diabhorknah, the no insulation on houses thing is more of a texas and such thing. You might be confusing that with buildings in europe somtimes having no additional insulation in mild climate countires, but that is because with stuff like hollow brick designs and such the building materials already insulate a good bit on their own.
I had to learn all this when I creating my living room gaming setup. Gaming PC plus TV, speaker system, and a window AC made me worry. I was just fortunate that the builders had the smart idea to put 20 amps on the living room circuit.
Light aren't always on the same circuit as the outlets and it's often code, depending on where you live, that they're on separate circuits. Besides, if you've switched over to LED lights, they draw a negligible amount of current anyways. Anyways, this is why, when I gutted the room where my computers are... ironically due to a botched wiring job by the previous owner, I ran two separate 20a circuits. Not that I have any intentions of running anything more that a 1600 watt PSU anyways. Just wanted to make sure that I never overload either circuit.
1.21 Gigawatts !
a whole nuclear reactor's worth
Great Scott!!!
Jigawatts
There are plenty of people in North America who run a 240v outlet to a server cabinet/UPS/network stack/servers. The marginal efficiency gains for gear that’s on 24/7 is worth it in the long run and it’s not that hard to DIY if you’re feeling frisky.
While you’re at it you can run one (preferably two) dedicated 240 outlets to your garage while you’re at it for them new dangled pixie powered electric cars.
In the early 2010s I purchased a desktop rig from a friend for about $900. The PSU was 1,200 watts, which was beyond overkill for its time. It will still be overkill in 10 years. I cannot imagine a 2K PSU ever mattering for 99% of home users.
You obviously missed the part of the video where they said the highest power efficiency is at around 40% of max. Therefore, for a 1200w power supply, the sweet spot is about 500w used by the computer. If your computer uses more than that, you will start to lose power efficiency. Leaving your computer idle a long time would be bad as well, which is why I shut down my computer when it is not in use.
@@necrolord1920 I listened to that part. My friend's rig contained parts which did not need so much wattage. Ten years later, my own rig uses an estimated 350-400 watts. To my understanding, this falls below the 40% threshold. Perhaps I am doing the calculation wrong - I'm just going off the numbers stated for the various parts.
1300 kinda bare minium now. I have 2 pcs that can easily pull 1200watts from the wall and they be 4 years old. Scared to see what a current gen pc could pull from the wall.
Yes - I knew there were 2000w PSU's. Saw one at the Seasonic website when I was looking up info for another model of PSU. I have it's 1600w " Little " brother ; I should be good for a while. Seasonic is my default PSU brand. I have had 7 PSU's so far - various power ratings - various 80+ ratings.
Biggest reason is that in the U.S. at least, the usual power delivery to an outlet or room cannot handle a 2K watt power supply. I had my room have a 'brown out' with a 1K watt heater going and my 800 watt power supply drawing only 300 watts at the time.
in Canada, by the electrical code, @120V, even 15A circuit should be only load at 80% capacity... so max watt per 15A outlet is 1500W, and 20 amp outlet 1920W....
A good set of speakers can soak up an outlet easily. Always put speakers on a seperate outlet IMO, as a sudden bass rumble can overload everything else on that circuit.
I work in PV (Solar) residential inverters start at 3k for power generation. This power supply is 1kw less than the smallest residential inverter that powers a small house.
This is why you put this sort of computer in a server room with its own dedicated circuit. For typical homes, this circuit would get both sides of one phase, which is 240V. The wall receptacle is usually something like L6-30R. Get an electrician if you're unsure.
Huh... I did not expect that that high wattage power supplies would consume not efficiently, if they do not consume that much compared to their avg-max wattage.
Thanks for the video!
I find this funny. I actually specced my home office for 20amp wiring and breaker, since I have multiple PCs, a server, and other things running in the office at once.
Yeah... Glad he mentioned the P=VA formula. It makes no sense in NA to get a 2000W PSU, unless you have a 20A circuit to power it. Which in turn requires more than just changing the breaker in your electrical box. Since most of the wires in your walls are generally about 12AWG to 14AWG. You'd probably want 10AWG wiring for that 20A breaker to ensure the wires don't just start melting in your walls and cause a fire. Better to go slightly overkill than to go right on specs.
we typically have 12A circuits here. Even if the voltage drops down to 220V (it's usually a bit higher), you can draw 2.6KW continuous.
@djchristian82 becouse Awg is a measurement we use in North america, lol, and for some reason, it was decided the smaller the number, the bigger the wire, for example 2/0 awg is bigger then 12 awg
So if you're already an electrician, this doesn't concern you.
Dual socket motherboard are a thing, though and those require big beefy power supplies, especially if they also have more than one GPU.
Some even moderately sized supplies are able to run on 220 or 240 volt power and are more efficient on those voltages than on 110 or 120 volts. So if you really need more than 1000 watts, might want to consider using a dryer or welder plug instead which operate at 240 volts.
In the US we do have 240 volt outlets however they are usually reserved for High draw appliances like electric stoves, air conditioners, electric vehicle chargers etc
Mostly cause those are mining power supplies and they have like 1 24 pin board connector, 1pci and like 10 6+2 pin connectors and a sata cable for a basic spinner drive. Also not modular so there is no way to get rid of the 7 extra cables you wouldn't need. These would power 10-12 low power GPUs no problem or 6 cards with two plugs each. 4 with 3plugs etc. Really only relevant to crypto mining. People who do work on their computers for actual business use real power supplies from reputable companies.
I have a 1600 EVGA 80+ gold. Used to mine with a 3090 TI, 3080 TI, 3070 LHR (duel mining), and a 3060. Was pretty profitable for a while then when it wasn't sold all cards except 3090TI. Was pulling 1k watts tho while mining in my apartment.
A lot of 15 amp receptacles are actually run with wire that can handle 20 amps. See 15 amp receptacles on 20 amp breakers a lot too.
You'd still definitely want that on a dedicated circuit with nothing tryna suck up on it tho.
There's no way anyone is going to put the heavier gauge wire in where it isn't needed because it simply costs too much to do. It's a 33% price increase.
@@1pcfred idk what to tell you dawg. I almost never see 14/2. See 12/2 all day long. 15 amp receptacles all day long. A mix of 15 amp and 20 amp breakers all day long. We don't carry really any 15 amp breakers on our trucks because whenever we've had to replace them they tend to be wired up to #12.
one of the key point that missed out in this vid was the high wattage drawn on a low rating 15~20A outlet is the rating of the powerline/grid of the wall might be smaller with a thin jacket aka sleeves of the power core and that can lead to fire hazzard due to overheating
"She blinded me with science."
Couple of weeks ago I had a discussion with someone, who said it would make sense to go as overkill as possible on the PSU, to have headroom and that 1600w is what he is using for his gaming PC, while it wasnt even a high end system. Headroom is good to have, but too much headroom is just wasting something. I mean, when you build a house you might want some extra space, but you wouldn´t want 8 meter high ceilings as headroom, unless you want to have a pet girraffe.
The circles i move through tend to be low to mid end rigs (i.e. barely anyone has a 3080/4080). I'm one of the very few that reaches 400w, because i have a 12700f that tops out at 180w (No AMD CPU goes that high). I strongly discourage them from getting a 1000w and just use the money to get a lower watt PSU that's a known quality brand. 550w would still work (If you have a branded one, don't upgrade), and a 750w is way more than enough for anything.
If you have a 5600x and a 4060, there is no way you're drawing anywhere close to 400w at full load.
Once again, USA has worse standard than the EU...
You know thats not even superising, usa is just 3rd world contry.
Wait until the next gpu cycle
laught in eu with 400v option (3 phase)
I have a 4090 on a 1100W power supply and I operate fine. Even using a 7880X3D I never had any problems. My only limitation would be overclocking the GPU voltage, but honestly, on a 4090, only if it's for science kkkk.
The old wiring in my house can barely handle the microwave or a space heater; a power supply like that would trip the breakers for sure. 😂
I was running a 2KW power supply for 9 years.
Nowadays it isn't needed anymore. My current PC is more powerful, yet uses less than half the amount of power.
No more watercooled loop with tripple SLI GPU and an OCed CPU.
My one workstation has dual 1600W PSUs from the era before larger ones, and I just have two breakers and two PSUs going to it, lol… another is dual 1600W on a UPS that can do 3600W and connects to a 230V/30A breaker line XD I hope they start making 3000-3200W PSUs so I can simplify my setups (the combination boards for dual PSUs kinda scare me tbh)
The whole power draw thing is so alien to me as someone from the UK. I’m used to never having to worry about power draw from sockets. I can have multiple powerful kitchen appliances connected to the same circuit with no issues, it’s not even something I’ve ever rlly considered
The power cost thing is alien as well because power is cheap in most places and even if LTT's claims on increased idle power usage are true if you do the math the gains are usually a dollar to maybe 10 dollars a year in increased cost.
Math is a increasingly lost skill in the PC space.
@@Hybris51129 idk about power cost, I understand wanting to keep power usage low. Saving a little here and there adds up across the house and if you’re paying a variable rate it makes sense. Personally I’m paying a fixed monthly rate for all my bills so within reason I don’t have to worry but I still understand what it’s like to want to save as much as possible on bills
@@ThisWillCharacter The important point is to be realistic and do the math. Then once you have an answer you can see if spending hundreds of dollars on underpowered PSU's is worth saving a few bucks a year verses buying one high output one and being able to keep it for a decade.
Depends on the house/apartment.
My last rented apartment had kitchen, balcony and living room on one circuit breaker.
Running the microwave, water kettle, electric BBQ and Plasma TV at the same time was guaranteed to trip the circuit breaker.
Wrong about the wiring. It has been standard to run 20A circuits for bedrooms for quite a long time. The outlets are only rated for 15A and the cables that plug into those outlets are only rated for 15A.
220V in Australia and have a 750W PSU. But once I upgrade, I need a bit more kick and was looking at 1000W or slightly more.
I think ppl forget we do have 220 in the us we just use it for stuff like dryers and washing machines
And americans bragging their 220 primary voltage seem to forget that in Europe the primary voltage is 400, and there are 3 phase 400 volt plugs, should one need more power than a regular old 230 socket can provide.
my washing machine has 400V three phase
@@JuhoJohansson-bz3jb we can just add more phases and we have plugs for 440v ive even seen a 550v plug in our warehouse
@@svr5423 yea exactly 440 is pretty common in industrial buildings
Truth be told, I am thinking about new PC, but I am considering RTX 4060 ti or maybe up to RTX 4070 ti super.... but The issue is: power bills - that are only getting up & up. So, it is not like I can not afford 4090 ti super or whatever. I just don't think 4K is worth it to pay 1000% more for electricity. Ideally, I would want to have up to 450 or 500 Watt PSU. So I am rather aiming for the best performance per watt for as long as it is within reasonable max TDP.
If your PC significantly increases the power bill - you can save on heating because all this energy turns into heat.
@@PalassCat It is not like my PC uses some huge amounts of power, but rather well... there are a lot of electrical devices being used and it all "stacks". If most of devices I use will be more energy efficient, then electrify bill will be smaller. Per year, it may be even a substantial amount of cash being saved that way. PC is only one of the devices and it is no exception - it needs to be as much power efficient as possible.
@@Tommy_The_Gun unlike server equipment the PC doesn't run at full power 24/7 unless you have some serious gaming addiction. Or the PC is outdated and runs as hot as it can while surfing the internet or doing some daily tasks. I am currently using GTX1050 as a placeholder and it is always running at 70-80 degrees C, I can feel it warming my knees under the table, and it can rise the temperature in the room for 1 or 2 degrees, that is absolutely a waste of energy. RTX40xx would stay cold as a rock under the same amount of load and save energy by NOT heating my room while I'm using Blender or AutoCAD or playing some 10 year old games. All the electrical energy consumed by PC components goes into either moving the air or heating it (or emitting radiowaves but we can ignore it), so as long as components are not acting as electric heaters they can't draw a lot of power no matter how power hungry they might be under a serious load.
I have a Seasonic 650W PSU that's working perfectly with my RTX 4070 Ti Super (and R7 7800X3D). I wouldn't go for any less than 650, though. Preferably 750.
The multiple room thing hurts. I have that 4090 paired with an intel & 4 monitors. Never had to dig into the circuit panel the (multiple) years before, but after a month-ish with everything setup & trying COD:Warzone, found out quick the room only has 15A & the wall is shared with the next, with the 70in TV & Xbox. And even the lighting is wired into it.
For 3yrs that never happened on the 4790k/GTX1070 machine. It became common enough I bought a UPS. Even vacuuming while blaring the Logitech Z906's became sketch.
all of my home's lighting is wired into my room's 15a fuse
Probably because not even my microwave is 2000W. I really don't want my computer putting out literally as much heat as my oven.
Good comparison
@@EpicDrew15 care to elaborate? I would expect the 2000W of electric power turn into 2000W of thermal power.
because if all 100% of the wattage was wasted away as heat it means no real computing got done and your PC is zero percent efficient
@@Biaanca5036 every computing that happens creates heat is the point
@@Biaanca5036 Wrong, all is converted to heat. Unless you can somehow harness the "computed" output as energy, then you are right.
yeah this checks out. I have a 1600w titanium power supply. watching youtube without frame generation uses as much power as going balls out. Also my breaker flips if I look at it funny because theres other loads in the room. Mostly cooling fans and the internet but also the surge protection and backup batteries lol.
4:17 only if you're not running an i9 🤣
In the UK we can draw up to 3000W from a socket.
1:00 - RTX 5000, Crypto, Render Box, 3D Modeling, SCIENCE!!, Ummm other stuff, can't think of much more except enterprise.
Do you know what they call a machine with 2000W power draw? A heater! You'd better have some good AC to deal with the heat coming off this bad boy. Oh, and yeah, just as mentioned, the AC would need its own circuit so as not to trip the breaker.
For context, I recently downloaded Final Fantasy 16 for Steam and it's really demanding on my PC. It got me thinking of when might be the time to upgrade. I don't intend to upgrade now or buy the game as I have it on PS5 but it got me wondering when would be a good time.
DDR6 could be mainstream by the time I do consider upgrading (and also around the time my kids might use my old PC for school etc). Stuff like GPU can be upgraded annually and more or less any time but every now and then there are leaps forward say in CPU, ram, and thus the motherboard.
So when should people looking to upgrade maybe in the next 3-5 years decide it's better to wait for the next big upgrade? DDR5 will be around for a fair while I know and it probably won't make a massive difference, yet it would be a bit of a bummer to get say DDR5 and within a year DDR6 stuff is coming out. My question isn't specific as to now but when is it worth waiting and when it's not worth waiting.
Good to know that running at 40% is best.
Could you do some actual wattage usage on power supplies? You say things but don't back them up with numbers you have actually observed.
A power supply.. 1000 w it was supposedly for like three crossfire.... But they all got it wrong and they still got it wrong from the start of the Rtx problem.. so yea
*Laughs in 250W maximum power consumption
1000 is already way, way more than I need with a solid specd out system
YEAH! North America 120V,
Most of the REST of the WORLD? It's Variable Between 210- 250 Volts (Even Though it says 240Volts), and It's DYNAMIC in Australia!😁
Single phase in North America is 240V We just center tap it to a bonded neutral wire. Because we're bloody filthy rich and can afford to do that.
@@1pcfred wouldn't that actually be more like 2 phase? Here in Europe it is 230 from phase to ground, and phase to phase primary voltage goes all the way to 400...
@@JuhoJohansson-bz3jb it's single phase. So hot to neutral is split phase. It's all just one phase. You can't make multiple phases out of one phase. Well, you can, but it's not trivial to do. You'd need a phase converter to do that. Off the transmission line there's a step down transformer that's center tapped. The center tap is neutral. Half of 240 is 120 and that's where 120V circuits come from. They're live to neutral. Hot to hot single phase is 240V though.
nope i have 1500w psu that most of the time my full load is 200-300w max (on the power meter on the outlet) the only downside i can say is the lazy fan since doesn't turned on cause of low load and also there are rails if they don't have load they don't work and don't consume power ... i have it btw since i had replaced a faulty 850w psu and with the same money got that 1500w and have it since 2007 ,done 3 system upgrades and still use it cause of reliability and always use my pc with UPS. The only real reason why i will replace the psu is to get one with better efficiency model like 80+ platinum or the newest cybernetics certification (mine had 80+ bronze and was the best at the time)
To add insult to injury, to run such a 2000 W power supply at full rated output of 2000 W will need more like about 2200 W from the wall, so even more amps than shown here. This is because the 2000 W is the output power, and because the power supply is not 100% efficient (but more like 90% for such a high-end PSU). Even in the 230 V land: This is, by the way, still marginally more than the continuous power rating of the standard quality German 'Schuko' plug for loads beyond an hour or so (which many people with EV home charging have had to learn the hard way, though usually more like at 3000 W), and calls for a higher quality “Super Schuko” plug (which looks identical but has higher ratings for its internals). So, if you are really running such PSU at 100% load for hours on end, you might want to at minimum change your worn and old wall socket to a new pristine one, possibly one with higher continuous load rating.
@@djchristian82 It is just a socket with a higher sustained current rating. Though, that particular name for it might be mostly known in Finland. (The standard 16 A Schuko is really only suitable for 8 A for arbitrary durations under long-term use for hours on end. Mostly as the contacts could have worm down a bit with use and the socket will then run quite warm under higher currents.) There is no formal standard for what counts as Super Schuko (but typical plugs seem to promise a reasonable maximum heat up with some large over current like 25 A for some long duration like 6 hours.
I have an 850w psu, my computers total current draw at full load is around 600w at most, so I have a 250w overhead, and running my air conditioner and pc at full load trips the circuit breaker in my apartment.
A blade of 2500W power supply can energize a big 7600 router for a few hours.
I'm not putting that load on a single home circuit. Yeah, I have headroom but I'm still not doing it.
So basically: It's a dumb idea all around and people know it. And they apparently don't need this video to tell them that.
We need to stop such ridiculous trend, of failure-prone computers drawing more power than a washing machine when the electric oven is turned on. During the summer, use of an Air Conditioner becomes mandatory - only to avoid our studio changing into a sauna.
I ditched Windows and its ecosystem about one year and half ago. I don't do high level gaming. I have a number of Linux-on-ARM computers now, and the main one has no fan, only a passive heatsink, because it has a 10 Watt TDP.
The way the market is trending, mostly because of an unsustainable benchmark race, must stop before the machines burn down.
Most of the show is fake. When I realised that hyperthreading was an intentional collective deception - well before the self-appointed "experts" did - I begun the difficult migration toward what I consider the true computers of the 21st century. It has been hard. But as soon I saw this video, I couldn't resist from writing this very appropriate and deserved comment, with a smile hidden under the mustaches.
I wish great success to you all!
Greetings,
Anthony
well thers those apple silcion arm chip comptuers that would work for that instead for that needed procceing power but it ant cheap thats for shure.
Off topic but I am so very happy I have a gas water heater and oven/stove.
And yet there are people who get mad at the thought that their new and shiny cpu isn't drawing 300w at idle for 2% performance boost
that thing doesn't run games at 4k with 100fps+
I don't need one... yet. 1500w been doing fine so far.
At least you probably won't need a heater if you're computer is using 2,000 watts of power. That's often enough to keep a reasonably sized room warm.
2k is only peak draw, you will never get near there.
I'm over here... if you have a power supply like that it should be in a server rack.
Well I would say the main reason is because no one really needs or like at all needs a 2000W power supply in their gaming PC. Like sure I have 1350W power supply but that’s because I’m running multiple graphics card and a powerful workstation great CPU with many storage devices. But I have multiple graphics cards because I do also do crypto mining with my personal PC along with hard drive mining and like the rest of my farm😅
Only two, I thought there were a quite a few thousand watt power supplies.
2000w power supplies, too bad my breaker on my wall trips at 1500-1800w. I'll need a industrial outlet before I can think of that one.
Here in Iran we have 260V at 26 Amp's.
Both because they don't need that much power and because you can't run them off a regular power circuit in North America.
Good I am in Europe, POWER...
People always mention the US and Canada, but NA includes Mexico. They're in the same boat too.
Haha Mexico is too poor to afford anything over 1000w lol
Mexico is not on our grid. Neither is Texas for that matter. But Canada and the USA do share the electrical grid. There's actually 8 of them. Canada shares 3 with the USA. Mexico electric is some janky stuff as I understand it. They're in the same boat a lot of countries are. Where the grid fluxuates between brown and blackout. They have power, kinda.
You could just put a splitter on your drier plug and run a cable to your room 😆
A lot of countries use 220-240V... can anyone explain why US uses 120?
The United States uses 120V single-phase alternating current (AC) power in most households. This type of power is a two-wire circuit that consists of one power wire and one neutral wire. The voltage between the power wire and the neutral wire is 120V, and the current oscillates between +120V and -120V 60 times per second
Throughout North America, homes are powered by 120-volt single-phase electricity. A typical residential circuit breaker box reveals four wires coming into our homes: two “hot” wires, a neutral wire and ground. The two "hot" wires carry 240 VAC, which is used for heavy appliances like electric ranges and dryers
The United States uses 120-volt single-phase electricity in homes because it was an early adopter of electric lighting in a city with rapid population growth. By the time tungsten bulbs became widely available, the industry had already built too many 110-volt circuits to switch over. The US also adopted Edison's lower voltage over Tesla's higher voltage due to safety concerns, which were fueled by a PR campaign led by Edison
well voltage wasnt standardized when the us power grid was built, we landed on 220V-250V as the standard afterward. simply put, to switch to the global standard would cost too much since EVERYTHING that is built for 120 will need to be rebuilt or modified for 220V-250V. also the us AC power runs at 60Hz, most of the rest of the world runs on 50Hz. that means even the NON-120V stuff will have to be rebuilt or modified to run at 50Hz. so basically yall cant change to the global standard.
Every house in the United States is wired at 230V. The difference is that the average home is set up with a center tap transformer that splits the power phase into two 115V lines, or use a bridging circuit breaker to get the full 230V. Technology Connections has a detailed video on why this is and how it's done. The average consumer can call an electrician and have a 230V circuit installed for a computer very easily if desired.
Because they are plebs.
Okay chatgpt
Anyway it’s because that’s just how the history turned out and that’s it. There’s no technical merit other than 60hz cycles being superior.
5090 paired with the next intel i9 will require 2000W psus
Aren't power supplies at optimal efficiency if they're running about half of max-rated power? So, if your high-end PC eats 1000W, then you WOULD want a 2000W PSU...
You get a credit against gains on solar equipment only if it over 3000 watts