Alex Jones Lover Wants to Convert Us All to Libertarianism
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- An Alex Jones fan and Infowars listener calls in to debate Libertarianism…
This clip from the Majority Report, live M-F at 12 noon EST and via daily podcast at Majority.FM
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I'll believe corporations are people when I see a corporation that is sitting in a prison cell.
I would settle for just the upper management of the corporations in prison
@@rambi1072 How about a corporation swinging from the gallows?
@@rambi1072 how “upper” is upper management? Are assistant managers “upper management”? Assistant restaurant managers make around $20 per hour. Are they also the enemy of the people?
@@firstlast9916 No I don't think assistant restaurant managers are enemies of the people just for being an assistant restaurant manager, you dolt. I am saying that if a corporation has acted against the interests of the public (say, by polluting the environment) and a crime has been broken, then upper management should be taken to court and prosecuted for making the decision to break that law. The reason I think this is fines can sometimes be written off as "the cost of business" where as if management knew they personally have to face justice they might reconsider breaking the law.
One example of where I think this should have been done is with HSBC's laundering of money for the Mexican cartel. So HSBC's upper management probably are "enemies of the people," but an assistant restaurant manager almost certainly is not unless they have specifically been involved in something similar. (I believe some of the individuals responsible did face sentencing as a result of the HSBC money laundering scandal, but these sentences always end up being extremely lenient.)
@@firstlast9916 I agree that pretty much all drugs should be legal actually, and the cartels aren't bad because they sell drugs they're bad because they murder thousands of people every year. And yes these things are ultimately consequences of governments' policies on drugs but that still doesn't mean laundering the money of mass murderers is okay
"I'm okay with society being trampled and abused by multi-national corporations as long as it's not the government." - libertarians
While not acknowledging that those corporations will, in effect if not in actual name, form a government. Government is nothing but a monopoly on use of force which allows that group to set “the rules”. I do not get why these people avoid that clear reality. Do they really just think everyone is nice? The second someone with a narcissism complex feels they have the ability to take over an adjacent area they will, and there are ALLOT of people who feel they are better suited to make decisions for everyone then anyone else. Tons of ‘em. In that sense, government is actually a standing protection from war lords and little trumps. We just have to make it work for all of us, not just the few with resources. I say “just” but clearly that’s a VERY tall, tough order
*"I'm ok with the choice for people to associate with multi-national corporations and the choice not to associate with multinational corporations." Libertarians
@@jojocosmodelic431 start a tech business in the the third world, it's the dystopian reality of libertarianism.
@Marco if you think sweatshop or starve is the only option in a libertarian society, you probably would be better off in a communist society... being the weakest link n all. I've worked in sweatshops for a brief bit to make some easy money while looking for a better job, but most of those jobs will be replaced by ai in the 4th industrial revolution anyways. Cronyism is the real enemy, not capitalism.
@Marco what has history proved and how?
I'm pretty sure Somalia has a pretty low tax rate if you don't count warlords sticking guns in your face and taking everything they want, but they aren't representatives of the government, they are entrepreneurs, so Somalia is the libertarian paradise.
Ryan Cole - Also criminals are actually just victims of government kidnapping when they go to jail. They never agreed that by committing a crime they could go to jail- government just enforces this with force.. So as much as taxation is theft, spare a thought for those poor victims of kidnapping- even if they not nice people.
Neal Brooker yeesh
De-regulation at it's finest. "Survival of the fittest" as many of them like to point out.
@@pw5975 exactly! I saw someone say poor people who vote against themselves see themselves as "embarrassed millionaires" instead of poor people. They keep thinking these tax cuts to the rich will somehow be theirs one day.
war lords are a 3rd party..LOL
A libertarian caller! ::grabs my popcorn::
AnxiousObserver I hope you brought enough for everyone
Me too - better than comedy!
got some for me mate?
You got the popcorn I got the M&Ms
AnxiousObserver a libertarian caller: grabs my drink 🍹
Does anyone else notice that there's always anti-progressive ads on the most progressive channels?
2 years later it is still the case. We finally have Bernie Ads. But the left dont have the money. And I am pretty sure because its political news we get political news ads, which unfortunately is Daily Wire and PRAGERU.🤢🤮😵
Yep, I've been bombed with epoch times ads lately.
Yes, I’ve noticed
I’ve noticed that too! And pro trump ads 🤢
"Take Trump's Socialism poll"
Nah I'm good on that, thanks.
I love these conversations with Libertarians. Quality humor. I especially like how the caller insists on setting up a society wherein contracts are enforced by the dictates of an individual's own moral code. I am sure there won't be a consistency or implementation problem with that in a country with over 300 million people, each with his or her own unique vision of morality and moral codes!
Jonathan rubin Of course you're right and it is so funny to think about how that may work out. Well actually kind of scary. I laugh at horror films so I guess that's okay.
*****
Couple that with zero gun regulations and the coffin makers will be in the top of the economic pyramid.
And I bet these "moral codes" would never be prone to change due to situational personal convenience.... lol
Libertarians are socialists who have been brainwashed by "conservative Christian" Republicans. Since there's no way to combine the 2 they struggle to score any debate points. Especially when they bring up free market garbage. It's humorous to hear them keep saying survival of thr richest while arguing that free market will help everyone. In reality they get government even if it disappears. The richest guy will buy an army.
Survival of the richest
"Could you spare a moment for our Lord and saviour, Alex Jones?"
Dnt Wry
Hahahaha!!
It IS a faith-based group.
I have watched a number of these phone ins from Libertarians and my understanding of them is that they want to reap the benefits of being in a society, while at the same time contributing nothing to it.
Libertarians seem to be the people that want to climb the socioeconomic ladder no matter the people they screw over be it individuals or the public at large and are mad that they have the pesky evil government holding them back.. purely sinister and selfish greed
Maybe the ones he takes on his show. But most of us just don't want our rights being taken UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES FOR ANY "REASON" because it's what has given us all of our wealth power and free way of life that we enjoy in America. Anyone who thinks it's ok to breach any ones civil rights like free speech or owning a firearm for any reason has either knowingly or unknowingly been influenced by propaganda
@@ponaliramos9773what a complete misdirect lol. You already have those things. The point is you have to give back if you expect them or anything else this society offers. Nice try though
Free market capitalist contribute more to society than socialists
@@ponaliramos9773 Where do you think civil rights come from?
Taxation is not theft. It is payment for services rendered. When you choose to live in America and reap the benefits of being an American citizen, you are consenting to American rule of law, which says that you must pay taxes. If you don't like it, go Galt already.
+Benjamin S you are volunteering to pay them by living in this country. You are making a choice to do that. If you don't agree with the taxes and policies of our government then you have the option to leave. But until then you are choosing to abide by the rules of law that we as a society have established in order to promote the general welfare of the whole over the individual. We've established a payment system that everyone participates in and benefits from. That's the way the world works, buddy.
+Benjamin S If you don't like paying taxes you can move to Russia, Mexico or Somalia, Bon Voyage.
It is theft if it is used to make one person work without pay so another person can get paid without working. If it is used for the protection of rights of all people that is a little different and even then it should be voluntary once that transition is possible. That is how Capitalism works, the government banishes aggression from society. These concerns about people starving or dying or whatever are not realistic because under Capitalism there are very few people who will find themselves in that situation and there will be much more wealth for charity. It is only under communism and socialism like Sam advocates where charity would not be able to meet these needs, but that is his system, not Capitalism.
Just like getting mugged and robbed is rendering payment for the service of being mugged.
You compare government services to a mugging? How is a public library like a mugging? A public park? A clean road? Clean water?
What makes me sick is that it's always relatively healthy middle class dudes who believe this crap. They haven't had a day's sickness in their lives and probably are fretting about inheritence tax on the middle class pile daddy is gonna leave them. Social security coverage is not there for the likes of you.
The working class have given up many rights in order to have this kind of help. Middle class people pay taxes because otherwise the working class would rise up and take it all: let's get real here !!
Libertarians have fantasy ideas that come down to letting corporations be the winners and regular people are the losers. Libertarians have morphed into greedy fucks who want to pay no taxes to help people in need of help.They ignore the 50 years of success for the middle class that came from the NEW DEAL and GREAT SOCIETY programs.
Less regulation means more competition and less large corporations, though. When there is a bunch of small businesses instead of large corporations - the market for labour is more competitive, meaning higher wages.
mrbadguysan Yes. I am an entrepreneur myself, and I can attest to the fact that government regulation is the single largest barrier to entry for small businesses.
mrbadguysan The tendency is for special interest groups to lobby for government regulations that keep competitors out of the market, though.
Don't call me governed. I'm a free man. My problem is not which lobbyists access the gun in the room (political power), my problem is the actual gun in the room. Good ideas do not need to be forced on people.
mrbadguysan I'd say most of our safety comes from technology that non-government companies have developed. Sure there are things that are unsafe, but I wholeheartedly believe that government officials have no business with whether I wear a seat belt or not.
Sam craves these callers every day after he crawls out of bed.
Tom Manfrede I crave these kinds of Libertarian commenters on Facebook. They're fuckin hilarious!
+Tom Manfrede It is good to like what you do.
+Tom Manfrede Is your real name NEWMAN?
some prefer sex, some coffee....lol
So do I
It's hilarious that every Libertarian that calls in prefaces their call with "the previous Libertarian that called in doesn't represent us properly" lol
Then they continue to spout the same shit as the previous libertarian when pressed on issues.
I've been going down this rabbit hole for a few days watching all these libertarian videos and they're almost formulaic at this point. xD
@@Darkersneasel ancaps have created a lot of confusion but at some point in history the first political group to have the name libertarian attached to them was in favor of abolishing the gov't or against it
that group is the original libertarian group
once you research it the first political group called libertarians wanted to keep the gov't
@@Darkersneasel well said
Fact is: most Americans favor universal/public health care. That's what most Americans want. I mean, that's a moral decision that most Americans have made.
What stops it? A libertarian/corporate mindset. By which only the rich count.
We live in a society that says: why should I care if that old woman down the street starves. Who cares. It ain't none of my business.
I mean, should we have that uncaring mindset to soldiers? Should we care about soldiers? Well, libertarianism says no. It says we should not care about soldiers.
That, to me, is immoral.
Edward Black
Well said. The GOP has hooked a lot of people in with God and guns, when in truth many of those people would support liberal policies if they could look at things clearly.
Edward Black As long as it's not mandatory i support universal health care. if i can afford an insurance plan with all the bells and whistles i should not have to pay Obama one penny of tax for his ObamaNotCare. Yes we should give soldiers all the same free health care Obama/Bush/Clinton/Ford/Your Senator gets for life if injured while serving our country.
LelBron
The inability of people to look at things clearly is why I take issue with religion sometimes. I know that there's a very different movement happening in parts of Europe right now but I wonder if they would have been able to develop such socially liberal policies without the secularization that took place across that continent in the 18th and 19th centuries?
Edward Black You must be a Bernie Sanders Fan? It would seem natural as he is so on target and you seem to have the same targets too. I have to tell you that I agree about how caring we have become. I get so pissed off each time I see these commercials on TV for Wounded Warrior and other veteran charities. WE owe the veterans everything and we have let our government get away with being irresponsible. If you're disabled and you are that way because you are an American soldier, we should take care of you without question. To let our soldiers become charity cases is a shame, a national shame. Nothing against the people helping our veterans at all, it's just they shouldn't have to because WE the PEOPLE are responsible. It's truly a crying shame.
" As long as it's not mandatory i support universal health care"
That's nonsensical. Universal Health Care by definition requires mandatory participation.
It’s so cute that someone would freely confess to being an Alex Jones fan and then still think they should be taken seriously.
Some comments age poorly. Yours aged like fine wine. It is still very relevant 3 years after the fact.
Caller: "can I just point out one more thing though?"
Sam: "Sure"
Micheal: "No"
Caller: "one more underlying assumption about the minimum wage"
Micheal: "Oh my god"
😂
RIP Micheal
Who’s micheal
@@poltronafrau Some skid mark producer
@@hen5555he’s dead I’m pretty sure
@@poltronafrau Michael Brooks, he was producer and co-host of the show until he passed away in his sleep a few years back. He's the one talking in the background.
Sam is too smart for these guys, Sam makes too much sense and these Libertarians dont even have a come back. This is not a debate, Sam is educating these people.
The best part of any libertarian call is in this video
When Sam says "I don't care about abiding by some broad guiding principles. I care about results. I don't care if a policy is libertarian or liberal or conservative or whatever. I care about results! Good positive results for society."
Ill believe a corporation is a person when I see one go to jail for breaking the law!!!
"I'm not that kind of libertarian" . Imagine if we had no roads, electrical grid, sewer, 911, police, fire, ambulance, parks, treaties to stop messing up the environment etc etc, it would be like somalia.
man sam just shreds these people it is crazy, glad i found this channel
I'm a die-hard ocialist. The more I watch Sam, the more he moves me away from socialism.....
Participation in economic dominance hierarchies are "freedom" and you can't argue with that, says the collective hive-mind of right-wing libertarianism/theology.
Jason Gregory Hahaha
***** What if you don't want to, but your only other "choice" is starvation...is that "freedom" too?
Do you even understand the point that Sam was trying to get you to understand about how the contextual history of a person's life influences the choices available to us? It's such a simple point, but you guys try to minimize it for some reason...because potato--it's an inconvenient confrontation with the reality that if you have more money, you have more choices. There is a direct relationship between a person's economic power and their lived experience of freedom.
When you guys minimize this simple point, when you guys equate the lived experiences and freedoms of a kid who grew up in Appalachian poverty with a kid who grew up with a silver spoon, you show that you have an impoverished understanding of "freedom."
***** You don't define it as "not truly a choice?"
Can you please rephrase this double negative gibberish? It's not clear if you think the choice between starvation and wage slavery is "freedom" or not.
***** "Why not?"
Because nobody here is proposing that, you jack ass. It's called a red herring, logical fallacies are a right wing "libertarian" thing.
***** Yes, it's a red herring. We aren't talking about a globally enforced distribution system, or at least I'm not--I believe in crushing capitalism and handing the means of production over to workers, the ones who actually produce. Although as far as the topic of this conversation is concerned, it's about the welfare state and a security net on a national scale.
'Where we're going, we don't need roads' back to the future and libertarians
every libertarian gives of this aura of entitlement that screams "but my daddy got rich emulating slavery why Cant I?!"
Ayn Rand ended up accepting social security. How's that for a huge 'Fuck my wasted life"
she sold hundreds of thousands of copies of her books world wide until her death
the idea that she needed social security with those profits coming in is not believable
@@robinsss
Upon the release of the book containing Pryor's testimony, critics of Ayn Rand's uncompromising libertarian ethos wasted no time pointing out the apparent inconsistency and hypocrisy of her acceptance of government payments. In an op-ed titled "Ayn Rand Railed Against Government Benefits, But Grabbed Social Security and Medicare When She Needed Them," AlterNet's Joshua Holland
Sam's arguments are the exact reason I left libertarianism.
Great arguments. I never bought into this. Because I can't travel down a path with no roads.
“Socialism never actually worked”
“Bro… most of Europe? What examples of libertarianism worked??”
“No, that’s just logical, dont worry about it…”
Europe is mostly social democracy
not socialist
@@robinsss my point’s still valid lol
We could call Europe "progressive" but conservatives say that is socialist, even though it isn't.
Wow, I have listened to so many of these libertarian callers and they all sound selfish and callous. Really horrible morals!
I'd say you need to get smarter callers.. But this is par for the libertarian course.
Par perhaps
jakegibson No such thing.
jakegibson This guy is above average for libertarians. That's what makes this so sad.
Christopher McGowan
He's just calmer than most. He doesn't argue any better.
jakegibson Fuck you.
Why can I always tell that a libertarian is a libertarian by their tone of voice
Yes, they always have that smug air of superiority that gets smacked off their faces.
That guy was pretty calm and collected for one of those guys
Society its like an orchestra, you just can't be a solo violin playing a whole symphony.
So, you can't get 90% of the credit and say that the other guys just deserve 10%.
every libertarian thinks this is the case though. I find a common mindset from right leaning people is that they have done everything themselves and they deserve all the credit and everyone else should strive to be as hardworking and persevering as them. I find it hard to combat this mindset without questioning their actual independent value, but I don't want to devolve to insults.
Yes and it all comes from the dangerous Adam Smith philosophy of the invisible hand and the self interest not social interest mentality.
Adam Smith barely knew society living in an agrarian world, where people sure where more self reliant but that isn't to say much as the living standard and the life expectancy where much lower than us today, even on these conditions...
Many people think they stop being part of society or depending on it if they get a job where they can pay their own bills... How small minded these people can be...?
If you look at 0:10, you can see Sam's eyes light up like a shark that just spotted a kill.
I laughed at the "chik a fil" lmao...
So he wants to live in a society without police, fire service, public schools etc. What a prat
And roads. Forget roads.
Sam, you're doing a fine job of mopping the floor with this guy, but you don't need to make it that hard on yourself. Rather than arguing over letting your neighbor die in the street (which, if they're the Libertarians, they don't care)... how about privatizing:
1) The Police, so you pay for murder investigations yourself
2) The sidewalks, so you pay a toll every time you take a walk
3) All the airports
4) Every street, road and highway
5) All the public schools.. if you can't afford private school, your kid cant read & write
6) Export every single job to India and China except burger flipping jobs (Oh wait, they're already doing that)
"Libertarianism" is a totally dopey ideology. In practice it means "Privatize anything that benefits you, socialize whatever benefits me"
This caller became Marxist-Leninist by the way.
How do you know this?
necro but need to know
"Chick-a-fill" LOL
This caller was surprisingly calm and rational for an Alex Jones fan. I was expecting more drama.
$15/hr is barely enough to sustain 1 person in a 1 bedroom apartment.
I don't know where you live or what you're doing wrong, but that's crazy.
@@hermeskun3274
Phoenix, AZ. Some of the fastest rising rent/housing cost in the country.
@@agarthastudio6005 you know, I thought about what I said, and I was a bit harsh. I am sorry for that. While there are plenty of places that one person with a full time $15/hr job could easily substain themselves in a one bedroom apartment, there are varying factors.
I actully lived in Flagstaff for a brief while, lovely place, hot as hell though. What's the utility cost down there? I can't imagine the average is less than $250/month. Which even if you were lucky enogh to find a $900/month would elevate it to $1150.
@@hermeskun3274
It's pretty insane. I started out paying $565/month for a one bedroom a few years ago. I'm now in a studio, paying about $1000/month. I'm managing; but it's hard to get ahead when literally with every raise, the rent rises drastically as well.
I don't understand how these people think running a country/economy like this is in any way sustainable...
@@hermeskun3274 any major city
Alex Jones has fans? I mean fans who don't think he's a comedian?
DrSpooglemon what? do you mean that isn't satire?
Not such a joke anymore as his lunacy is one of the direct causes of Qanon
its funny how logic totally flies out the window for libertarians
This caller had not an original argument or thought to put forward which is why Sam lost his patience and cut him off a little too much. I think Sam is getting bored of skewering these Libertarians, but it's my favorite type of video.
When Sam mentioned that under anarcho-capitalism someone could sell themselves into slavery, the caller changed the topic instead of disputing it.
Yeah
he could not because slavery is involuntary
@@robinsss if someone signs a contract agreeing to be a slave without being coerced, then on some level it is voluntary.
@@paulsmith5116 i just looked up slave in several dictionaries and all of them involve an involuntary restriction of freedom
so slavery can not be voluntary
i you agree to the situation and continue to agree to it you are not a slave
I'm perfectly fine paying my taxes to benefit my state and federal government. (When we can actually fight to get to where taxes don't just go to war)
I'm not a petulant child like Libertarians are.
telling the gov't '''' i don't want to pay taxes because i never promised to taxes'''
is not childish
you are not more mature than libertarians
you just don't mind letting the government violate your rights
"So, we're going by your morals?" Pause. "Well, yes..." Beautiful job, Sam!
We need a Seder University youtube channel.
I think the major issue in their argument is that taxes are "taking someone's stuff", but it's not wholly *their* stuff, noone earns wealth totally by oneself in modern society
Right? I take a road to work. The government has made infrastructure such as lighting, water piping, sewers, parks, etc.
But they're like "Well wars are bad so all government is bad. Defund them entirely."
give me an example of what you mean?
@@robinsss Start a company in Guatemala, start the same company in the US.
Which one is prosperous and which one isn't?
K. Good talk.
I don't know what Libertarianism is (too many "isms" to keep up with in politics today) but this guy definitely sounds like a "Sovereign Citizen".
Rehashed anarchists
@@nosuchthing8 Yeah looking at the things Rand Paul says, I can see your point.
One of the few bright spots on the web. Thank you Mr. Seder for your show and your most eloquent efforts. I am not religious but if I was, it would be to praise your brilliant show. And, btw, collapsing planet kolob and libertarianism together is too amusing.
when libertarians talk, all I hear is: "me me me me me me me me..." but maybe that's my European "socialist" view.
That is exactly what I hear,but I also have an European socialist views,😂
i have been confused by some libertarians i see what i got wrong i agree with some of their social stances but hated their economic arguments and now i understand better thanks to this guy thanks sam
7:10 Sam told him, before he said it, what his argument was, answered the presupposed arguement, and asked for the caller's opinion, and the best part was that the caller didn't rebutt what Sam said, he moved on to the question after Sam told him his own arguement. *Golf clap* just amazing.
It's funny because many libertarians think they're nuanced in their beliefs. It's so formulaic. They don't think any of the other libertarians are true libertarians but then when thrown into the crucible, resort back to the same talking philosophical talking points that the libertarian movement has. It's very rare for them to actually make a good point that is hard to refute.
And the real argument we should be having is why the top 1% isn't paying their fair share !?! If they were, then perhaps these greedy little nobs would have to pay less.
As he starts talking about the use of force I was imagining a little bug walking into Sams web.
Anyone who 'loves' Alex Jones should automatically be dismissed and ignored.
Finally someone addresses the profoundly unequal power dynamic, the fundamental flaw of the libertarian "voluntary contract" argument.
Wow, Sam totally demolished the caller's argument. Like I almost felt bad for him.
I don't agree with the caller on any point, and his conclusions are poor, but he still sounds too smart to listen to Alex Jones for 4 hours a day
Are these guys ever thankful for the roads they drive on and the parks they attend?
"government" "illuminati" "patriarchy" Watch out for these folks that speak in general like that.
Great Helm so beware of the feminists?
kathy kelly There are many types of feminists. I wouldn't lump 'em all together, darling.
I always thought the Andrea Dworkin school of feminist thought was a tad too extreme.
***** And, corporate execs that destroy the economy, the environment and harm people are absolved by the corporate charter. But, I guess that's ok, because it's not the evil government. It's funny how you'll protect one for doing the same thing you accuse the other of doing.
***** Fair enough. I think, however, that your defense of corporations as deserving the same rights as people fell short of that. Of course, you don't appear to believe that those execs should spend any time in jail. I guess if I rob a bank, I should go to jail, but tank the economy or destroy the Gulf of Mexico and the execs just walk away with a golden parachute. The saying goes, "I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one".
Also, in your conversation with Sam, you mentioned that it was about morals. Sam asked whose morals and eventually you said something about everyone has the same morals. My morality tells me I don't want people starving, dying in the streets. I also don't want wars, money given to Israel, subsidies given to oil companies, etc. You don't want the government providing health care to its people, I don't want 40% of my tax dollars going to fund the military. Seems like we both have to live with our tax dollars going to things we don't want it used for.
I love you Sam! All these old shows are coming up on my feed and I think it’s because I sought out every video I could find that showed and analyzed what happened when crowder was tricked into making eye contact with you for a few moments 🤣. It just occurred to me that Michael may have had something to do with that glorious event that has been boosting your sub numbers.
What a fucking nightmare!!!
all libertarians would end up with feudalism
I love when callers valiantly tell Sam on which discrete points they agree with him.
Wow. Sam's lucky day.😊
"walmart can't build roads"
hah
ray gman they could, but won't. or just build a road leading to their store.
Sam really went in deep here and fully debunked the libertarian claim, its probably his best argument against libertarianism out of all of them, and all of them are great, but this one outright shows what the path towards a libertarian system would actually cause and what would harm it would cause for all of america as a whole.
Fantastic!
Really gets to the root of things half way through. Glad there are people like Seder out there who can flesh this stuff all out for libertarians. Common sense if you have decent morals, which most people have.
Taxation isn't a use of force. Money is a service the Federal Reserve offers to you with the stipulation that you will give a percentage of each transaction back to them. No one is forcing you to use Federal Reserve Notes to account for your transactions.
***** Yes it is and even George Washington and Obama and Seder have acknowledged that. You have to pay the gov't your taxes in Federal Reserve notes, even if you just trade in gold, you'd have to convert some of that to Federal Reserve Notes to pay taxes.
kathy kelly So don't pay taxes! You sign contracts agreeing to do so, the government is just enforcing contracts. No one is forcing you to do so.
modelmajorpita what contracts did I sign agreeing to it? Contracts that were forced to include taxes maybe? Did you not hear Sam admitted that you are being forced.
kathy kelly I agree that taxation on anything other than money is force.
kathy kelly
Sam is wrong - contracts are enforced.
Income tax and related tax are covered by the W4 form. There are similar forms you sign agreeing to pay property taxes and corporate taxes. Stores sign contracts agreeing to pay sales taxes and then increase the price of their goods to push those costs onto the consumer.
If it's ok to have a massive imbalance in power when workers sign contracts agreeing to low wages, why isn't ok when they sign contracts agreeing to pay taxes?
Religion is a very appropriate term. Libertarianism is a faith-based belief system. There's damn sure no demonstrable, empirical proof it works.
The only thing separating it from it being a religion is there is no deity....oh wait they think corporations are deities....
So Sam wants nationalized care because it will lead to better outcomes? Then how come countries with universal care generally have longer waiting lines and worse outcomes for deadly diseases?
kathy kelly Facts mean nothing to you. Countries with nationalized healthcare systems have much better results
@2014
asherah helmsley no
kathy kelly Bet healthcare systems in the world www.businessinsider.com/best-healthcare-systems-in-the-world-2012-6?op=1
all national
asherah helmsley Common wealths research is laughable.
thefederalist.com/2013/11/25/the-commonwealth-funds-deceptive-research/
***** Canada has longer wait times and worse medical results.
The problem is that they are not voluntarily accepting the wage. They are forcecd to take the non-living wage because it is better than zero dollars. That, in my book, is force. It is preying on someone because they aren't in a position to negotiate for better. This is why we have governments, and why we have laws about minimum wage.
I think the quagmire that libertarians get into is when it comes to how they would settle disputes. Walter Brock's alternative (with the multiple courts) sounded much more convoluted and bureaucratic than any of our courts. This caller just said that disputes would be decided according to *his* moral code, as if the person he hypothetically is in dispute with would be OK with it and rubber stamp that decision or would blindly honor the legitimacy of any court, much less his court. If there is no force or no means in which some rules/standard can be set, then how exactly do you enforce said rules when they are broken?
The problem with the libertarian mindset is that they are "solutions" in search of a problem. The problem with these solutions are the things that are currently are in place, either work well, or work perfectly as intended. The problem is that when they want to replace these systems their replacement is at best the same thing with less securities, or at worst, a convoluted mess. It's sad because I think they have the right idea of less government spending in certain sectors...but then get too attached to that idea and just apply it to everything.
12 dollars an hour isn’t a living wage for a single person in near every state
These people don't want to live in society yet they want to dictate terms for the entirety of society.
No wonder they viewed The compassion of the majority as tyranny
Their ideas work in hypotheticals where land is infinite. They fail completely to reconcile the inherent conflicts of interests of an increasing population on a finite planet. So they just say the conflict is caused by disagreeing with them. Absolute self-centered nonsense.
Yeah these libertarians have no problem with corporations keeping their money earned through the use of force in the post state society.
This guy's solution to low wages is basically to call a general strike and demand higher pay across the board. I wonder how supportive he is of general strikes if you ask him upfront about them?
Libertarianism is not so much a philosophy as a form of autism at best, a form of sociopathology at worst.
I mean, $15 an hour with one working parent isn't going to support a family of 4 anyway.
Cheesus Fries!!! That guy just drowned on and on talking in circles and making no sense. Lol
The baking of cakes can never be devoid of complications, but it can be made simpler by having enough helping hands to get you from the binding of ingredients to the baking process and beyond.
Sam kinda said this, but it needs to be emphasized:
Both complete equality of opportunity and free markets are impossible. But.
More equality is good. Freer markets are not.
Not disagreeing with this notion. But if someone's ethics/morals are on the side of corporations then the opposite is true. Hence why it was pointless to argue this with the libertarian. Because they think freer markets leads to good and inching closer to it is a beneficial (to someone at least).
It was touched up on the video where who dictates morals? Morals are subjective and the majority of the people dictate morals. It's why the south had slavery, it's why we're moving towards more progressive ideology. Morals are always changing. You can debate morals all day but ultimately the person has to make up the decision in their mind on whether or not their morals are inherently "wrong"
"If moral rules apply, they apply for everyone." Not at all. Who told you that? What a bubble this dude lives in.
Sam, you always do a really good job but one part of your argument that I
don't like, which I believe I have heard you make before, is that "When
in history has such and such existed" It's really kind of ridiculous
because nothing existed before it did. Not modern Capitalism or modern
policing or anything else. I bet 500 years ago there was 3 people
sitting at a pub and one person thought out loud, "Wouldn't it be great
if we didn't live under a monarch?" Sure, Greece, Rome and Carthage was
one big exception but the vast majority of folks wouldn't have been able
to imagine what that might look like and even less would have believed
it possible and yet here we are. Monarchs are mostly a thing of the past
and not looking to come back any time soon. If those prior examples
hang some folks up, well then I would say the same thing for the people
that came just before those nations.
Now for a bit of ranting
I really hate libertarianism and I hate that half of them have hijacked either the word Anarchism or the prefix Anarcho. My gripe aside, I dislike them as much as I can without needing to use the word "Hate" but they are seriously flirting with the border. Does it strike anybody as strange that you've never met a libertarian of color? Ok, I'm sure there is an exception here or there and I don't include anyone, POC or white, that is sorta transitioning towards left ideologies through libertarianism. As far as very serious, you know, 20+ year, die hard libertarians, I have never met a single one that didn't suffer a serious lack of melanin. One of my biggest gripes with their ideas is either A, the level of disconnect for struggling and oppressed peoples living in misery, especially when you consider that we are a social creature, or B, their very serious lack of empathy for said people. Libertarianism would only cement the white boot on our necks. White folks already own most of the world. Capitalism allows them to do it and libertarianism would allow the the worst inclinations of capitalism to go unchecked. Not just people of color either, but poor folks in general. You know, why libertarianism will never exist, because your Defense Resolution Organizations and voluntary militias would not hold back the tide of us tearing it down. The world would be so unjust, so completely miserable that poor people would be compelled to action. "When the world starves, the poor shall eat the rich"
If your new form of government has no way to fund roads across the US, I have no interest in such a government.
If Ron Paul is promoting libertarians, he should not be accepting his government paycheck and healthcare. Such hypocrites.
how does taking a government paycheck and healthcare go against libertarian principles?
@@robinsss The real question is how on earth can you not put it together???
@@coletrickle1775 neither one of the things he mentioned violates libertarianism
if they do show me how
@@robinsssSo you guys are cool with taxes now? Neat. Update your platform then. It isn't my fault you don't know how anything works lmao.
@@coletrickle1775 what does the LP platform
say about taxes?
Amazing that the people that base their philosophy on the non aggression policy are more likely to own guns!
"Chick Ah Fill" LOL
Wow, Sam's fucking good at that.
Corporations are groups of people and should therefore have the same rights as people - what nonsense. Cults, mobs, hell, a stadium full of fans at a concert are also groups of people. Does that make them corporations?
It amazes me that libertarians think that they're so smart but they don't get why we have to pay taxes if you like living in a functioning society than taxes are the price that you pay for that since the dawn of time we've paid taxes to live in a functioning society before there was paper money we used to pay those taxes and grains and crops there has always been a tax system in society
I can just see large corporations agreeing to contracts in a libertarian hell scape
"I appreciated that you were sober."
Me: My bike is making a squeaking sound when the tire moves
Normal sane people: Just oil the tire. The squeaking will go away
Libertarians: You're going to have to replace your bike. The design is inherently flawed. You will have to get a PVC frame and square tires
there is something inherently wrong with a system that makes it legal for the government to force you to pay money that you never promised to pay
@@robinsss yet you reap the benefits of a sovereign state. That's part of the contract. You pay taxes, you get the benefits of it. Let me know how a taxless libertarian state will end up for you.
We can either have corporations pay people a minimum wage capable of bring people out of poverty or we can use tax dollars to help support the working poor with food stamps and other needs. Personally I rather the business some works for pays.
Is every Libertarian that calls this show incapable of making a succinct point? It seems they spend all their time babbling without a clear, concise, and cogent thought.
"So much for that story you tell yourself."
How is it, that in this year, 2015, someone thinks that a single worker have any negotiating power with employers when it comes to: How much that worker's labor worth? There is companies paying 6%(of profits) on labor. Does anyone in their right mind think that is a good proportion of how much that labor worth? That's why Union employees have higher compensation for their labor, because they can negotiate as a whole, labor wages. But employers have always undermine Unions(buying union representatives, etc) so they can hold a better ground when it comes to negotiate labor compensation. If someones asks me, i think that minimum wage is soft, really soft. Corporations will increase the revenue with that minimum wage going up, and they will increase the living cost(inflation) to the point that wage is back to 6% of profits, and thus they will keep the upper hand when it comes to labor worth. I think a minimum labor worth(lets say 30%) is a better approach than minimum wage. So if a company makes x amount of $, they have to pay labor, at least that 30% of the profit. That will increase job creation(cuz they can split that 30% between more ppl to get better results, so u don't have this one worker doing a 3 mens work for the same wage), this also will increase labor productivity cuz employees will see a proportional compensation for their efforts, etc. I think that is a better solution.
I love to see libertarians trashed on this show.
My favorite way to explain how amazing crap the world would be if the libertarian world came to be is the fire brigade in ancient rome (or maybe Greece i cant remember) this was the only fire brigade and they would haggle before putting out the fire they were sent too, someone home or shop would be burning down and they would have to pay extremely high prices to save it, in a total not a coincidence that the owner of this brigade was the richest person in human history.
Another note; the reforms to the fire brigade, tax collection and the grain doul is to the best of my knowledge one of the main reasons the fall of Rome was postponed
How is it a useless force? He pays his taxes or goes to jail or has his property confiscated. Then it is not useless. The more I learn about Libertarianism the more childish it seems.