Just want to clarify tweek did not get mad an acola or Steve during the match. Production changed the camera from the game to the players in the middle of a match which was inappropriate. The end of the latest tweek talks video goes more into detail.
You think he wasnt upset during that entire set? he was playing like he didn't want to be there and just wanted to inconvenience Acola. I know his playstyle, he was totally broken(And I don't blame him, that character is demoralizing)
@@quarium5681I disagree. I've been listening to Tweek Talks for a while and watched most of his tournaments. He has stated several times that he chooses whatever playstyle necessary to win, and that he wants to stay more loyal to his gameplan. I believe he wanted to control the match - as he's said several times, that he likes to control the pace, etc. I understand he didn't want to to run into Steve's traps - minecart, anvil, lava, etc. He wanted Steve to approach - which is not his strongest side. That is what Gavin says - check out the episode, and it makes sense, so I don't see any good reason to doubt and spread accusations/lies.
@@no_notes1229 Oh ive listened since episode 1, Sorry, I just dont fully believe him if im honest. Not trying to start shit or anything either since I like him a lot and he plays my main. Hell, even Leo and Maister see it the same way as I do in their latest podcast episode and they prolly know Tweek's playstyle better than you and me combined since they PLAY agaisnt him.
@@quarium5681 That pro players have an impression doesn't mean it's correct. Either way, it's speculation. I find it reasonable to believe Tweek on saying he doesn't want a Steve or Acola controversy, just trying out a new gameplan.
The way Maister's heart sank when Miya revealed a GnW's answer to Dabuz is to switch to Steve...maybe Leo should main GnW, he clearly doesn't need to worry about Dabuz
You can see Leo’s gamer passionate side when he talked about Spargo playing peak smash. High energy even if it isn’t his FAVORITE thing in the world anymore
Steve is the epitome of what’s wrong with ultimate. Campy play styles and never approaching are king. You either play a character that can capitalize on those 2 things or one that is fast enough with busted frame data that can get in which is just too few characters.
What annoys me the most about Steve is that Acola can be clear #1 steve and player with only using 40% of what the character can do. There would be no question about a ban for steve if steve players actually implemented the other 60%
@@Amalinghe wouldn't even be top 15 if he wasn't using Steve. Getting an occasional upset without Steve, while being bodied most of the time without Steve. Doesn't make him a top player. Sorry Acola is good, but he is the most carried player in the top 30, and it's not even close. His next best character is Kazuya. Like...come on. His Aegis is okay.
38:27 😭😭😭😭 people are really pretending that everyone was just so excited to see acola's *riveting* steve gameplay and thats why the viewership was so high
Spoiler: It's Ganon Fr though I legit agree with Leo saying Steve is the best character in smash history. Bayo and MK in past games were polarizing cuz the games around them werent as balanced, but Steve in a game as balanced as Ult with his 4385435 tools just feels insane when compared to the rest, and that's with his ceiling rising every single day because of the toolkit
6:15 campy pichu is so much worse than campy pikachu it’s actually insane. pichu can only really camp as a mix up/ tempo changer, his self damage and abysmal weight just make it so much harder for him to run away and maintain the lead without being aggressive
Being purely a spectator it's interesting to see how top players feel about characters. Given the shifting meta it was making Sonic look more insufferable than Steve. But then I suppose even if people have adapted somewhat. to Steve that doesn't make him any better to actually play against.
It's funny everyone's forgotten the real reason why Steve isn't banned. *Everyone* knew he was broken and that it would only get worse. The reason why the vast majority of people chose not to ban him is because of the players. People said it unfairly targeted players using Steve. "It's not their fault, they're just using the char they like." It was also ego, cuz it would look pretty bad banning the character when the #1 player in the world is a 16 year old Steve main from Japan. So everyone resolved to learn the MU since there was still counterplay no one was doing, and out of decency/respect for people using the char. But as usual, Smasher behaviour never matches up with their noble fronts. Acola only turned up the heat a LITTLE BIT and people are ALREADY complaining. No thoughts spared for the players, just whining. Idc if some pre-teen can't play Steve at their regional, but you all knew what could happen and chose to keep him LOL, have a little backbone maybe? Be happy there's even two people from NA that can consistently gatekeep him. The most annoying thing is that most of the people complaining have no right to. They're just babies confirming their biases after losing to Steve in quickplay. And in spite of how many people say "hate player not character durrr", only a handful of people are actually that mature. Tl;dr absolutely no discipline at all in how the community handled stigma around this character.
I think it’s really sad we even need to have the ban discourse because Steve is genuinely a cool addition to Smash and a faithful one at that. :( It’s the best-selling game in the world so there is bound to be players for him. For some, it was their childhood, but it’s really a game everyone can play. I dislike the notion that Steve is for “pre-teens” or something. That game is over ten years old at this point and even many players who’ve played it in their childhood are adults now. ApolloKage for one has expressed his liking for the character.
@@Moegivesmelife i heavilly disagree, watching him camp after a wall mining right when the game starts, not interact when has the lead to just go back to mining, spamming mincecraft, etc.. he's the worst character to watch in ult..
I feel bad for the character itself as well. Like I think he is genuinely a cool addition to Smash and faithful to the original game. And there are a *lot* of players who love Minecraft and for whom it was their childhood. It’s sad that we even have to have the ban conversation. :(
@@Moegivesmelifehe’s not totally faithful to Minecraft though considering he can place blocks midair. Pretty sure you can’t even do that in creative mode mc XD
@@jaden577 Yeah I know, it’s pretty funny they decided to let him do it in the air! :D But in general the character represents and showcases a lot of stuff from Minecraft well.
Love these episodes, and that Rob is the truth! Great chemistry between you guys. Magister is a natural host and Leo is just great if others are like me we hang on you every word! Lee these episodes going please, goat talk is a great addition to the smash podcast space! Thanks to the GOATs!
I agree with Leo that Steve is the best character in Smash history bc yeah Bayo had free zero to deaths and witch time and Brawl MK was Brawl MK but Steve is capable of having true zero to deaths off of some of the most riskless attacks in the entire game regardless of DI/SDI, a gameplan that encourages interacting with your opponent as little as possible, has a glitch that CANCELS HITSTUN, and worst of all- can create walls and ceilings ANYWHERE he wants which is a HUUUUGE no-no when it comes to stage legality but when a character has access to creating walls and ceilings on any stage? They keep him legal. But if a stage has a 1-centimeter tall wall? Banned without a second thought. Literally doesn't make sense by any logic.
Brawl MetaKnight just needed to hit you once and then cape glitch. You could win by not playing at all and your frame data was superior. They went ahead and banned the move and some countries banned MK. Has Steve received any of this treatment? Nope, because he is just a very strong character that plays outside the smash demo
Bayonetta and Meta Knight were stronger in their relevant games but Steve is the least entertaining of the characters, that’s why I want him banned. Not because of strength, just because of walls and minimg, approach and die.
Hey Maister, Hbox explained he had to un-ban Steve, in order to get a license with Nintendo. After the new guidelines came into the effect, I don't see a Steve ban being possible anymore.
I think this video created an alternate timeline, let me explain. I clearly remember seeing this exact thumbnail except Mkleo and Spargo's poses were switched. There was also an instance at Wavedash 2023 when Mkleo gave me a lightskin stare after seeing me crying outside the venue bc I lost to Kazuya. The Kazuya didn't win, I lost. Piggybacking off the first sentence in this paragraph, there was also a baddie in my English class who foreshadowed this exact event, but that's for another comment. Oh yea great video by the way, completely agree with Maister at 32:32
Leo summed up my thoughts pretty well on the Steve ban discourse, which is that it's dumb to have some tournaments without Steve and some with. and like, much as I don't like the character, the decentralized nature of the scene I think means that we'll never really be able to unanimously ban Steve. we don't even have a unified stage list ffs. so like, unfortunately I think that because a uniform Steve ban isn't viable people just shouldn't ban the character from tournaments. (I will also note though, even if a uniform Steve ban was an option I wouldn't be like, for certain in favor or anything. it would be a complicated issue, but it's a rather moot point because such a uniform ban isn't really possible)
I think the best way to describe my dislike of Steve and to a lesser extent Kazuya, and why I hate watching them is basically this. Oh, and this obviously applies to the characters not the players... Imagine you're watching a martial arts tournament. And one of the people is amazing and is totally kicking the other ones behind. The one who is losing then throws dirt in the eyes of the one who was fighting so well and starts to beat him. That's what it feels like watching a ton of Steve and Kazuya matches. The players opposite of Steve will be playing their hearts out. Completely outplaying the Steve player 90% of the time. Then they still lose... When the Steve player is just playing better, I don't mind. But so often I see the opponent of Steve playing so much better and then they get Steved. This also happens with Kazuya, but much less. I hate watching it so much. Now if my favorite players are out of the tournament, I just turn it off. I don't want to watch Steve matches unless my favorite players are there. It's like watching the villain win over and over again.
Steve without a doubt is lame and a broken unbalanced character, followed closely by Kazuya. The difference is Steve is broken because he has tools that makes all of his matchups easy to handle. With Kazuya is different because you play another game. Punish opportunities for you for a mistake the Kazuya did, backfires and you get punished. 0- death, all armor all invincible and so on
Imo, Steve and Kazuya are a lot further apart. Kazuya has a lot more weaknesses. His whole thing is 0 to 80% or ToD, like Tekken. However, if you know how to whiff punish EWGF, you should generally be fine cause Kazuya has to approach. Steve doesn't.
@@justice8718 Are we really sure that's all there is to it? He could just not take the tournament too seriously and test out his ROB against Sonix if he wanted to.
@@Sancnea that would just hurt his results even more tbh. Not to mention he would have to fly all the way over to DC. Instead he decided to go to a Mexican tournament to try out the ROB in a low risk setting
@@gerardoortega323 I don't see the problem with the results part. He's already out of the top 10 this season and I don't see it changing much regardless of the Coinbox IRL result. Grinding offline (and potentially playing against them in bracket) with the best players of the characters he struggles against is the best way to tell if his new character picks are going to work or not. Travelling is much more understandable of an excuse.
As a spectator I don’t think Steve should be banned, because obviously Sonix and Sparg0 can beat Acola’s and Miya’s Steve. But now that I heard Maister’s opinion on the matter, I understand, that the toll of playing a whole different game is actually greater then I imagined. Idk, is a hard decision. I at least I don’t find the Steve sets boring to watch, I like the psychological war that we also see in Hungrybox or Justin Wong sets. There is one thing that bothers me though and that is the stiff animation of Steve, all the hit he gets and hits are esthetically not impactful enough.
man Leo was better at the Palu match up when nairo was around. now hes getting smacked by Lui and Flow but man Flow was so fun to watch. Lui was jsut a stomp even though the set vs Flow could have been a stomp the Sds hurt.
Exactly! Nairo said that he was shocked that Leo didn't go Joker against Raflow, and even against Lui$ he went Aegis instead. I think the Joker would definitely do better during neutral, if even Nairo is saying so.
Look, Acola is good at the video game. We know this, we understand this, but... I want to see a player who actually takes advantage of Steve's overwhelming offense fight Acola. I miss Esam and WhyDo's steve. I think that especially Esam would absolutely tear Acola apart if he found steve more fun than Pika or Brawler.
I can’t watch people talk about Steve. Sure the character is annoying, but the best character in smash history???? 1 main in the top 10 and the best in smash history, debatably not even the best player in the world. You can’t say that steve is better than brawl meta knight or bayonetta. Maybe not even fox.
ApolloKage doesn’t think Steve is ban-worthy, and I doubt you could say that he doesn’t play the game enough or that he hasn’t played strong enough Steve players. He’s played plenty with Pocket/Onin and taken Acola to game 5. Edit: same with Light, and he’s a top 10 player.
Spoken from a snake main, tho. The problem with that is snake punishes players who mash with a frame 1 combo breaker which, wouldn't you know, Steve is in spades. Forcing Steve's to have to play differently for once. Also, snake too has pretty decisive ways to counter camp Steve and specific utility for the mu. You could say the same for cloud and sonic and zss if you wanted to but it doesn't take away from the fact that even when you play your best, Steve can still pull one out of his hat, win out of nowhere and is just a bad competitive character as a whole.
@@omegafreddy12 I’m not a competetitive player myself so I don’t really know the intricacies, but I don’t think there’s a contest for the strongest character. But I also think that it speaks volumes when Steve has been out for over three years now and he’s not dominating TOP 16 slots like Brawl MK and Smash 4 Bayo did.
@@Moegivesmelife He's also admitted the only reason he thinks like that is because of his goku complex and ego of wanting to beat Acola "at his best". I repeat EGO. You can't take what Light says seriously since he's all EGO. And I can literally counter your "top 10 player" argument with another top 10 player. Spargo thinks Steve should be banned and the only reason he's even somewhat against the ban is because of steve players which honestly isn't a valid reason not to ban.
@@Moegivesmelife many top players have, despite saying he shouldn't be banned, exclaimed that he was a terrible addition competitively, which sounds like they just don't want to be the one to justify the ban tbh. That being said- you can't compare ultimates engine to brawl and sm4sh- those characters, Bayonetta and MK respectively, were leagues over the engine they played on just like pre Nerf Diddy in sm4sh- which no one talks about. Steve might be more balanced considering the engine but when many characters have ToD qualities, optimized combos, absurd mobility, and other characters can shut characters down via patience and well executed camping, it isn't a stretch to say Steve being good at almost all of those things at once is too much. Most of the problem stems from the character being rewarded for a lack on interactivity, at least sonic, for instance, has to use his mobility and ability to realign his moves to his advantage- Steve builds 3 blocks and has the ability to force opponents to feel obligated to come to him because, should you ever make a mistake against Steve, you're just playing from behind- always. Couple that with clock gimps/stalls and diamond as a mechanic and Steve tech- it's just way too much
Cloud and Sonic actually do have a good MU against Steve. Miya is a person-person MU. He’s played against Acola so much he knows exactly what to watch out for.
I think that in any other smash game, Steve would be banned, no question. But Ultimate is such a balanced game, he’s not nearly as polarizing as the best characters were in Brawl and Sm4sh.
@@LeeSanchez-m8jcompared to other fighting games smash ultimate is very balanced. I think the whole community (like yourself for example) has been pretty spoiled when it comes to the meta
Game is balanced but on the normal distribution curve, there are outliers and Steve is one of them. He pushes the game beyond what most of the mid to low tiers are able to deal with.
😲, how so i feel steve is more suffering to watch, with all the cheese and outplaying you have the do ( tweek vs acola and webbjs vs acola as examples. messed up ones means your stock can be gone.
@@akiraenishi829 Both basically run until you make a mistake to punish, but Sonic players really like to play around the clock and will run more consistently, both have high damaging consistent combos, but like the Sonic's are running away and just waiting to punish a jump or get you with a spin dash, even if they're good, it's so predictable and... Boring. Somehow, because of how random and crazy the Steve stuff are, it just makes me laugh or actually enjoy seeing how the other player try to get around his blocks, it's funny and fun, even if the player is actually struggling or not enjoying the match.
I saw Leo playing against steve once and steve had 168% steve had blocks behind him Leo smashed him but the blocks protected him then steve won from Leo, but he should have fly though the blocks when he smashed not protect him it was so sheit to see that
The main reason I am opposed to any Steve ban despite being a mere spectator because you can't convince me that the community has exhausted all counterplay ideas against Steve. Gimvitational, we have that one scene of Light's Fox just standing there clueless on how to approach Acola's house he built on PS2 as he mined. Fast forward a year and half later and we have the SAME exact scene, except it's Tweek's Diddy lost on how to approach Acola's house he built on PS2 as he mined. This is a platform fighter game and this controversial overtuned character's value draws from the materials he mines from a stage. Are there absolutely no stages that are competitively viable (and this definition needs to be reassessed for today's meta as I believe it stages were chosen based off of early Ultimate and Smash 4 meta) that are tuned in such a way that causes Steve to struggle to mine and build his walls effectively? I don't buy this. Also, Tea had a way more hype and competitive camping set at Tamasuma against Acola. But this was before Acola discovered this new absolutely disgusting up tilt combo that basically checkmates Sephiroth (and I'd imagine many more characters). But other than that, good luck Maister for the Coinbox event. I will look forward to see someone inevitably running you full charging an Up Smash. Also, Rob over Corrin with Byleth now being retired? ;_;
absolutely insane how leo can say steve is the most broken character in smash history while maining brawl meta knight and smash 4 bayo. no acknowledgement on the hypocrisy, or even the placement difference. We have had over 3 years with steve to see if he truly breaks the game. he hasnt. is he annoying to play against? definitely. but to say he is more oppressive than every other top tier in smash history is insane to even take seriously. bayo was out for barely 2 years and she ran every single major!!! every top 8 was bayo!!! and i dont even need to touch on meta knight. be real with yourself
DC is great and all the Smithsonian museums and anything with “national” in the name like the national cathedral, or the national zoo, it’s all free to enter and enjoy. I know you’ll be smashing and I’ll be rooting for you’ but try to make time for some of the sites.
I think TOs should experiment with a ruleset where players can choose one character ban per match. This could make things interesting because if the player wins they can choose whichever character they want and in a game 5 situation both players get their preferred character. This could artificially patch the meta by forcing players to be good at more than one character. It would also force one-tricks to learn at least two or three different characters to stay competitive. I know there are a lot of ways you can balance this idea with different stipulations or styles of implementing the ban. After all, not everyone plays steve so imagine mutace getting peach banned for one match or Maister’s G&W. It could really change up the competitive meta! What do you guys think?
@@Vegeta101691 everyone plays the game their own way. Some people only click with one character or play a super technical character that doesn't have room for secondaries. There's many reasons to solo main and discouraging that would take away from the game. That said character bans would be a fun side event
they had one, who actually won smash con over mkleo and maister etc, he stayed fairly successfull even though he wasnt winning tournaments anymore, but got so much hatred because of steve that he had to change his tag
Not that I don’t agree that Steve is very oppressive character but Dabuz’s take means very little. He is just a gatekeeper for most top 8s anyhow. Again not saying Steve doesn’t pose potential problems but highlighting the opinion of someone who is not a serious pick to win most anything regardless if Steve is present or not is humorous at best.
From my own spectator standpoint, I don't want to end up watching top 8s be nothing but Steve players. Boring as hell. That'd be like watching NY Yankees vs NY Yankees, whoever wins plays against the NY Yankees. The coaches are all different though, therefore the teams may play differently, but still the same teams you're watching all the way until the last game. ...eh weird example I know, but for me if I was watching as spectator I'd walk way and get a drink or something. As for my own standpoint as a player/competitor? I would just have to deal with it and try to adapt, even though whether I win and go to the next match or lose and go through loser's bracket there's always going to be a Steve waiting. Frustrating af....but..yeah. If there is the potential for a banning to happen, then I'm for it.
As much as you can say how broken Steve or Sonic is, there’s only a few representatives of the character at a high level. It’s clearly more than the character itself but the skill the players have with the character
Ken loses to way more players. If Sonix wasn't as skilled as he is currently, nobody would have Sonic in the top 5. He's a great character but he doesn't compare to Steve.
@@lokks2130 The gap between Steve and Sonic is very very small. Sonic may even be better, just depends on what you value in a top tier. Also the “It’s just Sonix” argument is pretty weak. he just proves how insane that character’s tools are.
@@RealBroccoliHour The gap between Steve and the rest of the cast is a considerable size, but the gap between how much you and the rest of the community dislike Steve and Sonic is what's small. Unfortunately Smash players can't reconcile dislike and tier placement, so it goes over their heads that Steve quite literally does everything Sonic does but better. Nope. It's a strong argument, because he brought up Ken. Ken has always been there. He has little to no part in why Sonic is valued as high as he is. It's mostly Sonix. That's just true, it doesn't really matter how you interpret it.
ya Leo is wrong at 29:16. Steve is one of the best chars but hes not the best. MK and Bayo was 100x better with how many MK and Bayo mains there were. Steve is slow. he gets rushed down hard. you cant say the same for Bayo and MK. Do you know how many mirror Matches we saw of MK because of how broken he was? he can dominate you from start to finish or he can time you out. Bayo's ladder combos were insane. i still think Melee fox is the best char in smash history though. with how much representation he gets at majors and how many majors he has won for over a decade now. Steve maybe great but you will not so over crowd the top 8 like the above do.
28:07 you mean the same players that were saying "Steve is fine" when the "guys on social media" wanted him banned. I'm pretty sure both of you are on record stating this. Stated in videos and on Twitter. I'm talking about when all the Steve mains were coming out of no where making it to top 10 or better then not even top 32 but now that. Even after that when Acola started buzzing you still didn't think Steve should be banned. But now Acola isn't as potent on hit, loses more often and is like the only Steve main making top 10... Now Steve is an issue!? With Sonix not engaging Spargo in grand finals and Tweek doing the same to Acola how the hell is he the issue!? I'm going to tell y'all like y'all have always said until more recently... LEARN THE MU and GET GOOD. It's obvious being a top player doesn't mean your opinion is correct. When the LITERAL GOAT is still admitting he doesn't know certain MU this late in the game it's obvious even their opinions aren't as educated as you'd think. Stop the cap
I'm surprised Steve is being mentioned when Sonix and Sonic's playstyle and Tweek finally being shown to be a low-key camper is really what should be considered an issue Sure, Steve has lots of cheese but his movement stats are trash and I say this as a Link main. On top of that Acola is receiving all this hate and he didn't even reach Grands but Sonix did and decided to practice his parry for a min straight. So Steve and Acola is the issue, huh?! I'm from America and even I can see the bias the western smash community has. Y'all ain't shit
Steve's poor mobility is compensated by his ability to set traps and cut off angles. Look at the Acola vs WebbJP set. Sheik is one of the fastest characters in the game and yet WebbJP still got chased down by Steve because of his tools to cut off parts of the stage. This is one of the rare occasions that Acola hasn't made it to grand finals.
@@dripfoe_3307naw dude. I think your looking at it the wrong way. Notice you think controlling space to slow down and constrict your opponents movements is not the same as "chasing them down". Link uses the same type of methods to "compensate" for his as well but it's fine. The point I was making about his poor movement is that it can still be exploited. I don't think your scenario correlates since, like you said, he really only slowed Webb JPs movement instead of outright chasing him down. The compensation takes resources and even that is a weakness.
@@s3eriousbl9ck26 Nah, you're clearly looking at it the wrong way. I'd imagine that most people would understand what I mean and would agree that Steve aggressively setting traps, to constrict movement to literally corner his opponent can be seen as chasing his opponent down, not in the literal sense but indirectly. Yes the point you made was that his stats are bad and can be exploited, my counter is that his tools make up for it. You haven't countered what I said, you just repeated yourself for some reason. Slowing your opponent down to hit them or rushing your opponent down with great speed to hit them is so similar in its goal that most people would see them as the same because of their intention: getting close. So far Steve's "weakness" with resources has shown to be lessened by managing those resources. Good Steve players have resources 95% of the time so much so that whenever good Steve mains run out of resources, the commentators make note of it as it is not something that happens often.
I CANT HEAR THIS 2 GUYS CRYING. HOW SPARGO AND SONIX DESTROY STEVE PRETTY BADLY JUST GET BETTER ON STEVE AND THATS IT THE WAY SPARGO HUMIKUATES STEVE AND THIS GUYS CRYING LIKE THIS
The only reason why they say ban Steve instead of ban Steve and Sonic is because Sonix is on LG. Also, there is no way in hell Steve is more broken than Bayo in S4 or MK/Icies in Brawl.
Steve is more broken. Bayo and MK were broken because they're respective games weren't nearly as balanced. But Steve is somehow the single best and most centralizing character in a game where everyone is bullshit.
Its hard to call Acola carried when he: A. is the #1 player in the world. Even if he is using Steve no other Steve player is getting the results he is. B. Is not exclusively tied to Steve, unlike other Steve players. While he gets all of his results with Steve, he also can put up a big fight with Aegis and Kazuya and has gotten close game 5s with other top players without using Steve, even beating them in some cases. This is vastly different to other Steve players where they pick up Steve and suddenly just start winning. (Like Onin/Pocket and Riku) Steve is like a lesser extent to the Smash 4 Bayonetta scenario but it still gives me that vibes. Acola is just excluded from the group as he has proven himself as a player and above that group. What Muteace describes him and someone like Tea is "SUPER DUPER WINNER"......where they only just pick the characters that give the most reward for the least amount of effort. In other words, they just pick the easy to play top tiers. But its hard to call these players carried if they are always putting up a fight with different characters moreso them just playing to win, which is a valid strat in every fighting game.
Well I would like to see him continue to play other characters, I only saw him play aegis one time with Spargo. I hope Steve does get banned it’s such a snooze fest watching him there’s nothing hype about Steve at all.
@@Latias38 his other characters are decent, but they will never win him any majors like his steve did. if he dropped steve right now he isnt even top 15 anymore
@@Similarity_ you could say that about anyone dropping their main lmao. where would light be without fox, sonix without sonic? Skill wise, leo puts acola top 10 and sparg0 puts him top 5.
Just want to clarify tweek did not get mad an acola or Steve during the match. Production changed the camera from the game to the players in the middle of a match which was inappropriate. The end of the latest tweek talks video goes more into detail.
You think he wasnt upset during that entire set? he was playing like he didn't want to be there and just wanted to inconvenience Acola. I know his playstyle, he was totally broken(And I don't blame him, that character is demoralizing)
@@quarium5681I disagree. I've been listening to Tweek Talks for a while and watched most of his tournaments. He has stated several times that he chooses whatever playstyle necessary to win, and that he wants to stay more loyal to his gameplan.
I believe he wanted to control the match - as he's said several times, that he likes to control the pace, etc.
I understand he didn't want to to run into Steve's traps - minecart, anvil, lava, etc. He wanted Steve to approach - which is not his strongest side.
That is what Gavin says - check out the episode, and it makes sense, so I don't see any good reason to doubt and spread accusations/lies.
@@no_notes1229 Oh ive listened since episode 1, Sorry, I just dont fully believe him if im honest. Not trying to start shit or anything either since I like him a lot and he plays my main. Hell, even Leo and Maister see it the same way as I do in their latest podcast episode and they prolly know Tweek's playstyle better than you and me combined since they PLAY agaisnt him.
@@quarium5681 how was he trynna inconvenience Acola???
@@quarium5681 That pro players have an impression doesn't mean it's correct. Either way, it's speculation. I find it reasonable to believe Tweek on saying he doesn't want a Steve or Acola controversy, just trying out a new gameplan.
The way Maister's heart sank when Miya revealed a GnW's answer to Dabuz is to switch to Steve...maybe Leo should main GnW, he clearly doesn't need to worry about Dabuz
Nobody will have to worry about Dabuz after he takes a break... which is sad to say
You can see Leo’s gamer passionate side when he talked about Spargo playing peak smash. High energy even if it isn’t his FAVORITE thing in the world anymore
Thanks for highlighting that moment. Great stuff for sure
Steve is the epitome of what’s wrong with ultimate. Campy play styles and never approaching are king. You either play a character that can capitalize on those 2 things or one that is fast enough with busted frame data that can get in which is just too few characters.
Well that's what happens when a game as a ton of delay on actions and commital movement because no shield in initial dash
That talk was so fun to watch. The dynamic between maister and leo was just great, I feel like I couldve listened to them for hours
What annoys me the most about Steve is that Acola can be clear #1 steve and player with only using 40% of what the character can do. There would be no question about a ban for steve if steve players actually implemented the other 60%
we need yonni back
It's crazy that this is true but people are still saying acola would be top 10 without him
@@Tratttthose people have brain damage.
@Trattt yeah turns out the kid who was top of the Japanese online ladder for years is pretty good at the game
@@Amalinghe wouldn't even be top 15 if he wasn't using Steve. Getting an occasional upset without Steve, while being bodied most of the time without Steve. Doesn't make him a top player.
Sorry Acola is good, but he is the most carried player in the top 30, and it's not even close.
His next best character is Kazuya. Like...come on. His Aegis is okay.
I have faith in your ROB, Leo ! If you learn the combos and gyro subtilities it will be devastating.
Tweek said he wasn't mad at Acola or Steve, but at the production cutting to him
Yeah and he did *not* want to fuel the Steve ban discourse…
That’s what he wants you to think , he clearly was mad at both he just didn’t want to talk down on him
Goat talk is back! Let's Go! Can't wait to hear what both Leo and Maister gotta say with WTT with their fellow Mexican in Sparg0at winning the event
38:27 😭😭😭😭
people are really pretending that everyone was just so excited to see acola's *riveting* steve gameplay and thats why the viewership was so high
Spoiler: It's Ganon
Fr though I legit agree with Leo saying Steve is the best character in smash history. Bayo and MK in past games were polarizing cuz the games around them werent as balanced, but Steve in a game as balanced as Ult with his 4385435 tools just feels insane when compared to the rest, and that's with his ceiling rising every single day because of the toolkit
I am going to trust you
R.O.B.
Ganon beats Sonic
no lol both MK and Bayo were more toxic than Steve. Steve hasnt even had a year dominace and is losing.
@Weebfox as a Toradora fan seeing your pfp is sad how wrong you are and how you have no clue waht you're talking about
With Leos godlike Spacing and precision, his ROB would he terrifying
Can’t wait to see
6:15 campy pichu is so much worse than campy pikachu it’s actually insane. pichu can only really camp as a mix up/ tempo changer, his self damage and abysmal weight just make it so much harder for him to run away and maintain the lead without being aggressive
Maister and Leo talking about how broken brawler is made me so happy
Goat talk is just the best man! I love listening to this!
Steve hate is valid.
Being purely a spectator it's interesting to see how top players feel about characters. Given the shifting meta it was making Sonic look more insufferable than Steve. But then I suppose even if people have adapted somewhat. to Steve that doesn't make him any better to actually play against.
Looking forward to the MKRob, hopefully for a long time! :D
MKrob could be the doubles team name for Leo and big boss
Hope we can see more recap videos like this for big stake tournaments like Genesis, Smash Con & Port Priorty 8
It's funny everyone's forgotten the real reason why Steve isn't banned. *Everyone* knew he was broken and that it would only get worse. The reason why the vast majority of people chose not to ban him is because of the players.
People said it unfairly targeted players using Steve. "It's not their fault, they're just using the char they like." It was also ego, cuz it would look pretty bad banning the character when the #1 player in the world is a 16 year old Steve main from Japan. So everyone resolved to learn the MU since there was still counterplay no one was doing, and out of decency/respect for people using the char.
But as usual, Smasher behaviour never matches up with their noble fronts. Acola only turned up the heat a LITTLE BIT and people are ALREADY complaining. No thoughts spared for the players, just whining. Idc if some pre-teen can't play Steve at their regional, but you all knew what could happen and chose to keep him LOL, have a little backbone maybe? Be happy there's even two people from NA that can consistently gatekeep him.
The most annoying thing is that most of the people complaining have no right to. They're just babies confirming their biases after losing to Steve in quickplay. And in spite of how many people say "hate player not character durrr", only a handful of people are actually that mature.
Tl;dr absolutely no discipline at all in how the community handled stigma around this character.
I think it’s really sad we even need to have the ban discourse because Steve is genuinely a cool addition to Smash and a faithful one at that. :( It’s the best-selling game in the world so there is bound to be players for him. For some, it was their childhood, but it’s really a game everyone can play.
I dislike the notion that Steve is for “pre-teens” or something. That game is over ten years old at this point and even many players who’ve played it in their childhood are adults now. ApolloKage for one has expressed his liking for the character.
@@Moegivesmelife i heavilly disagree, watching him camp after a wall mining right when the game starts, not interact when has the lead to just go back to mining, spamming mincecraft, etc..
he's the worst character to watch in ult..
Everyone's gangsta until MkLeo starts maining Steve and Sonic
No yeah the WebbJP set was Smash4 Bayo incarnate. Bayo could carry Shiek to the blastzone at 0 almost as good as Steve.
I feel like the Leo cloud would go crazy tho
Hell yeah I’m here for the Leo Rob
I love hearing from these guys. More more more!
Last year during his Euro trip Leo only lost 5 games throughout 4-5 tournaments 😂. #GOATthings
I feel so bad for Acola. He made it to the top of the hill but will only ever be remembered as the guy who killed Ultimate competitively.
It’s less Acola, it’s Steve as a whole.
I feel bad for the character itself as well. Like I think he is genuinely a cool addition to Smash and faithful to the original game. And there are a *lot* of players who love Minecraft and for whom it was their childhood. It’s sad that we even have to have the ban conversation. :(
@@Moegivesmelifehe’s not totally faithful to Minecraft though considering he can place blocks midair. Pretty sure you can’t even do that in creative mode mc XD
@@jaden577 Yeah I know, it’s pretty funny they decided to let him do it in the air! :D But in general the character represents and showcases a lot of stuff from Minecraft well.
@@Slug_ssbm It's Acola. Stop defending it. He's choosing THAT character to play out of 86 possibilities. He knows what he is doing.
Watching the throne tournament made me realize that spargo is the goat cause he destroyed everyone but tbh top 8 was boring to watch
Top 8 was too cancerous to matter.
Love these episodes, and that Rob is the truth! Great chemistry between you guys. Magister is a natural host and Leo is just great if others are like me we hang on you every word! Lee these episodes going please, goat talk is a great addition to the smash podcast space!
Thanks to the GOATs!
Leos such a solid dude, wanna see him back on top!
I think leo would play a terrifying bowser. He's a fast faller like joker, has insane ledge trapping, and all the cheese you could want.
Nah bruh he’s still traumatized from a certain somebody’s bowser from brawl. Prolly still has nightmares about bowser no lie.
Is it cheese when it's just the percent bowser kills at?
Bowser disadvantage is too bad at top lvl Steve will just touch of death him
Yea, but bowser is even worse than Byleth so how does that help? He wants to play a top tier that cheeses not a mid tier.
Omg I died here 😂 34:23
Leo is so funny man
I agree with Leo that Steve is the best character in Smash history bc yeah Bayo had free zero to deaths and witch time and Brawl MK was Brawl MK but Steve is capable of having true zero to deaths off of some of the most riskless attacks in the entire game regardless of DI/SDI, a gameplan that encourages interacting with your opponent as little as possible, has a glitch that CANCELS HITSTUN, and worst of all- can create walls and ceilings ANYWHERE he wants which is a HUUUUGE no-no when it comes to stage legality but when a character has access to creating walls and ceilings on any stage? They keep him legal. But if a stage has a 1-centimeter tall wall? Banned without a second thought. Literally doesn't make sense by any logic.
Brawl MetaKnight just needed to hit you once and then cape glitch. You could win by not playing at all and your frame data was superior. They went ahead and banned the move and some countries banned MK. Has Steve received any of this treatment? Nope, because he is just a very strong character that plays outside the smash demo
Bayonetta and Meta Knight were stronger in their relevant games but Steve is the least entertaining of the characters, that’s why I want him banned. Not because of strength, just because of walls and minimg, approach and die.
i wish there was a way to unbind the place block button. if blocks were banned, i feel the community wouldnt argue as much
The community doesn’t realize how PERFECT you have to play to beat really good Steve player like Acola , Leo said it we are not robots
It was cool seeing MKleo playing renno in Rivals of aether 2
Leo mentioning Zackray’s Rob is awesome. I hope it’ll work out
leo needs to bring back the corrin bro we’ve seen what she’s capable of from shadic’s recent performances
Hey Maister, Hbox explained he had to un-ban Steve, in order to get a license with Nintendo. After the new guidelines came into the effect, I don't see a Steve ban being possible anymore.
The rob pick is crazy
I think this video created an alternate timeline, let me explain.
I clearly remember seeing this exact thumbnail except Mkleo and Spargo's poses were switched. There was also an instance at Wavedash 2023 when Mkleo gave me a lightskin stare after seeing me crying outside the venue bc I lost to Kazuya. The Kazuya didn't win, I lost. Piggybacking off the first sentence in this paragraph, there was also a baddie in my English class who foreshadowed this exact event, but that's for another comment. Oh yea great video by the way, completely agree with Maister at 32:32
Woah double G&W in doubles is gonna be 🔥
Leo summed up my thoughts pretty well on the Steve ban discourse, which is that it's dumb to have some tournaments without Steve and some with. and like, much as I don't like the character, the decentralized nature of the scene I think means that we'll never really be able to unanimously ban Steve. we don't even have a unified stage list ffs. so like, unfortunately I think that because a uniform Steve ban isn't viable people just shouldn't ban the character from tournaments.
(I will also note though, even if a uniform Steve ban was an option I wouldn't be like, for certain in favor or anything. it would be a complicated issue, but it's a rather moot point because such a uniform ban isn't really possible)
I think the best way to describe my dislike of Steve and to a lesser extent Kazuya, and why I hate watching them is basically this. Oh, and this obviously applies to the characters not the players...
Imagine you're watching a martial arts tournament. And one of the people is amazing and is totally kicking the other ones behind. The one who is losing then throws dirt in the eyes of the one who was fighting so well and starts to beat him. That's what it feels like watching a ton of Steve and Kazuya matches. The players opposite of Steve will be playing their hearts out. Completely outplaying the Steve player 90% of the time. Then they still lose... When the Steve player is just playing better, I don't mind. But so often I see the opponent of Steve playing so much better and then they get Steved. This also happens with Kazuya, but much less.
I hate watching it so much. Now if my favorite players are out of the tournament, I just turn it off. I don't want to watch Steve matches unless my favorite players are there. It's like watching the villain win over and over again.
Steve without a doubt is lame and a broken unbalanced character, followed closely by Kazuya. The difference is Steve is broken because he has tools that makes all of his matchups easy to handle. With Kazuya is different because you play another game. Punish opportunities for you for a mistake the Kazuya did, backfires and you get punished. 0- death, all armor all invincible and so on
Imo, Steve and Kazuya are a lot further apart. Kazuya has a lot more weaknesses. His whole thing is 0 to 80% or ToD, like Tekken. However, if you know how to whiff punish EWGF, you should generally be fine cause Kazuya has to approach. Steve doesn't.
thanks luminosity for what u did for our community
yoo goat talk yessir
We could've seen Leo at Coinbox IRL if he'd just accepted the invitation (Jazar didn't accept either). I wish they'd at least touched up on that.
Leo is more focused on setting up his characters first.
@@justice8718 Are we really sure that's all there is to it? He could just not take the tournament too seriously and test out his ROB against Sonix if he wanted to.
@@Sancnea that would just hurt his results even more tbh. Not to mention he would have to fly all the way over to DC. Instead he decided to go to a Mexican tournament to try out the ROB in a low risk setting
@@gerardoortega323 I don't see the problem with the results part. He's already out of the top 10 this season and I don't see it changing much regardless of the Coinbox IRL result.
Grinding offline (and potentially playing against them in bracket) with the best players of the characters he struggles against is the best way to tell if his new character picks are going to work or not.
Travelling is much more understandable of an excuse.
@@Sancnea Leo would also have more low-risk tournaments in Mexico.
As a spectator I don’t think Steve should be banned, because obviously Sonix and Sparg0 can beat Acola’s and Miya’s Steve. But now that I heard Maister’s opinion on the matter, I understand, that the toll of playing a whole different game is actually greater then I imagined. Idk, is a hard decision. I at least I don’t find the Steve sets boring to watch, I like the psychological war that we also see in Hungrybox or Justin Wong sets. There is one thing that bothers me though and that is the stiff animation of Steve, all the hit he gets and hits are esthetically not impactful enough.
Estaria bien que usen la mecanica de tener videos en su idioma nativo y ingles para tener mas audiencia
Yo when you make dabuz quit, that’s when things get rough. To bad smash players only care about smash, hope dubuz does well
dabuz went to the dark side himself. hes about to timeout people until steve is banned
@@Shadrag I like dabuz but he’s always been the dark side. That’s why this so so crazy. He’s been at this since brawl
man Leo was better at the Palu match up when nairo was around. now hes getting smacked by Lui and Flow but man Flow was so fun to watch. Lui was jsut a stomp even though the set vs Flow could have been a stomp the Sds hurt.
Exactly! Nairo said that he was shocked that Leo didn't go Joker against Raflow, and even against Lui$ he went Aegis instead. I think the Joker would definitely do better during neutral, if even Nairo is saying so.
Flow is a Roy main, you might be talking about Raflow
looks like Leo lost weight looking good bro :)
Look, Acola is good at the video game. We know this, we understand this, but... I want to see a player who actually takes advantage of Steve's overwhelming offense fight Acola. I miss Esam and WhyDo's steve. I think that especially Esam would absolutely tear Acola apart if he found steve more fun than Pika or Brawler.
Maister : "Likelike like like"
maister I love that shirt
I can’t watch people talk about Steve. Sure the character is annoying, but the best character in smash history???? 1 main in the top 10 and the best in smash history, debatably not even the best player in the world. You can’t say that steve is better than brawl meta knight or bayonetta. Maybe not even fox.
86 characters in this game
....... of course there won't be that high representation
ApolloKage doesn’t think Steve is ban-worthy, and I doubt you could say that he doesn’t play the game enough or that he hasn’t played strong enough Steve players. He’s played plenty with Pocket/Onin and taken Acola to game 5.
Edit: same with Light, and he’s a top 10 player.
Spoken from a snake main, tho. The problem with that is snake punishes players who mash with a frame 1 combo breaker which, wouldn't you know, Steve is in spades. Forcing Steve's to have to play differently for once. Also, snake too has pretty decisive ways to counter camp Steve and specific utility for the mu. You could say the same for cloud and sonic and zss if you wanted to but it doesn't take away from the fact that even when you play your best, Steve can still pull one out of his hat, win out of nowhere and is just a bad competitive character as a whole.
@@omegafreddy12 I’m not a competetitive player myself so I don’t really know the intricacies, but I don’t think there’s a contest for the strongest character. But I also think that it speaks volumes when Steve has been out for over three years now and he’s not dominating TOP 16 slots like Brawl MK and Smash 4 Bayo did.
Oh and actually I think Light has also expressed many times that Steve should not be banned. And he’s a top 10 player!
@@Moegivesmelife He's also admitted the only reason he thinks like that is because of his goku complex and ego of wanting to beat Acola "at his best". I repeat EGO. You can't take what Light says seriously since he's all EGO. And I can literally counter your "top 10 player" argument with another top 10 player. Spargo thinks Steve should be banned and the only reason he's even somewhat against the ban is because of steve players which honestly isn't a valid reason not to ban.
@@Moegivesmelife many top players have, despite saying he shouldn't be banned, exclaimed that he was a terrible addition competitively, which sounds like they just don't want to be the one to justify the ban tbh. That being said- you can't compare ultimates engine to brawl and sm4sh- those characters, Bayonetta and MK respectively, were leagues over the engine they played on just like pre Nerf Diddy in sm4sh- which no one talks about. Steve might be more balanced considering the engine but when many characters have ToD qualities, optimized combos, absurd mobility, and other characters can shut characters down via patience and well executed camping, it isn't a stretch to say Steve being good at almost all of those things at once is too much. Most of the problem stems from the character being rewarded for a lack on interactivity, at least sonic, for instance, has to use his mobility and ability to realign his moves to his advantage- Steve builds 3 blocks and has the ability to force opponents to feel obligated to come to him because, should you ever make a mistake against Steve, you're just playing from behind- always. Couple that with clock gimps/stalls and diamond as a mechanic and Steve tech- it's just way too much
If you guys have seen the brawl meta port in ult then you know it’s not close
@@splaturials9156 in terms of what standalone character is the best tho there’s no competition
ROB??? 😳 I really thought he was gonna say Corrin
Corrin: 😢
Ok, but make a video why Miya can consistently win with gnw against acola, and spargo with CLOUD, and sonix. Is it skill diff to me.
Considering the players in this video I don’t think you have enough skill to disagree with them or even claim skill diff.
Cloud and Sonic actually do have a good MU against Steve. Miya is a person-person MU. He’s played against Acola so much he knows exactly what to watch out for.
Consistently ? Hell nah
@@Hags_95 you saying spargo and sonix don’t do it consistently? Hell, spargo does it so often that he forced a DK pick outta Acola.
@@Vegeta101691 I'm talking about Miya
I think that in any other smash game, Steve would be banned, no question. But Ultimate is such a balanced game, he’s not nearly as polarizing as the best characters were in Brawl and Sm4sh.
Wrong, but thats okay. You’re just not all there!
@@LeeSanchez-m8jcompared to other fighting games smash ultimate is very balanced. I think the whole community (like yourself for example) has been pretty spoiled when it comes to the meta
Game is balanced but on the normal distribution curve, there are outliers and Steve is one of them. He pushes the game beyond what most of the mid to low tiers are able to deal with.
Bring the Leo Corrin back!
Honestly I rather see Steve than the Sonic's xD
😲, how so i feel steve is more suffering to watch, with all the cheese and outplaying you have the do ( tweek vs acola and webbjs vs acola as examples. messed up ones means your stock can be gone.
@@akiraenishi829 Both basically run until you make a mistake to punish, but Sonic players really like to play around the clock and will run more consistently, both have high damaging consistent combos, but like the Sonic's are running away and just waiting to punish a jump or get you with a spin dash, even if they're good, it's so predictable and... Boring. Somehow, because of how random and crazy the Steve stuff are, it just makes me laugh or actually enjoy seeing how the other player try to get around his blocks, it's funny and fun, even if the player is actually struggling or not enjoying the match.
Just trust you corin
dont worry we wont make the change fast enough or at all and we'll get to see another smash game die off in record time
I saw Leo playing against steve once and steve had 168% steve had blocks behind him Leo smashed him but the blocks protected him then steve won from Leo, but he should have fly though the blocks when he smashed not protect him it was so sheit to see that
I’m all for Leo ROB
The main reason I am opposed to any Steve ban despite being a mere spectator because you can't convince me that the community has exhausted all counterplay ideas against Steve. Gimvitational, we have that one scene of Light's Fox just standing there clueless on how to approach Acola's house he built on PS2 as he mined. Fast forward a year and half later and we have the SAME exact scene, except it's Tweek's Diddy lost on how to approach Acola's house he built on PS2 as he mined.
This is a platform fighter game and this controversial overtuned character's value draws from the materials he mines from a stage. Are there absolutely no stages that are competitively viable (and this definition needs to be reassessed for today's meta as I believe it stages were chosen based off of early Ultimate and Smash 4 meta) that are tuned in such a way that causes Steve to struggle to mine and build his walls effectively? I don't buy this.
Also, Tea had a way more hype and competitive camping set at Tamasuma against Acola. But this was before Acola discovered this new absolutely disgusting up tilt combo that basically checkmates Sephiroth (and I'd imagine many more characters).
But other than that, good luck Maister for the Coinbox event. I will look forward to see someone inevitably running you full charging an Up Smash.
Also, Rob over Corrin with Byleth now being retired? ;_;
TL;DR
absolutely insane how leo can say steve is the most broken character in smash history while maining brawl meta knight and smash 4 bayo. no acknowledgement on the hypocrisy, or even the placement difference.
We have had over 3 years with steve to see if he truly breaks the game. he hasnt. is he annoying to play against? definitely. but to say he is more oppressive than every other top tier in smash history is insane to even take seriously. bayo was out for barely 2 years and she ran every single major!!! every top 8 was bayo!!! and i dont even need to touch on meta knight. be real with yourself
mkleo should just use ike vs all unfamiliar matchups jk
Leo…PICK UP PT!!!
Leo PT would be magic
Leo should trust in the ROB process.
PT would be interesting
But not really that good
Well…PT sucks against Steve, so not sure if it would help…
@@s-zz ROB is lame
Steve and Kasuya are the most toxic characters from Ultimate.
Is sad to see a player like Leo being touch to death while using his Joker.
DC is great and all the Smithsonian museums and anything with “national” in the name like the national cathedral, or the national zoo, it’s all free to enter and enjoy. I know you’ll be smashing and I’ll be rooting for you’ but try to make time for some of the sites.
I think TOs should experiment with a ruleset where players can choose one character ban per match. This could make things interesting because if the player wins they can choose whichever character they want and in a game 5 situation both players get their preferred character. This could artificially patch the meta by forcing players to be good at more than one character. It would also force one-tricks to learn at least two or three different characters to stay competitive. I know there are a lot of ways you can balance this idea with different stipulations or styles of implementing the ban. After all, not everyone plays steve so imagine mutace getting peach banned for one match or Maister’s G&W. It could really change up the competitive meta! What do you guys think?
There's too many solo mains out there players like light and gluto would get screwed over
@@greedo194 Perhaps encouraging multi mains isn’t a bad thing?
@@Vegeta101691 everyone plays the game their own way. Some people only click with one character or play a super technical character that doesn't have room for secondaries. There's many reasons to solo main and discouraging that would take away from the game. That said character bans would be a fun side event
worse take ever
Could be interesting.
It’s really funny even NA don’t have any good Steve players who getting top 8 frequently but complaining more than other region
Lmao true. Character's still ridiculously broken though.
they had one, who actually won smash con over mkleo and maister etc, he stayed fairly successfull even though he wasnt winning tournaments anymore, but got so much hatred because of steve that he had to change his tag
@@Shadrag bro we all know who onin is 😂
he's still around and he doesn't rly top 8 anymore..acola hard carrying?
should of went with corrin against mi brawler so you can counter it would of worked off staged too I think :)
Not that I don’t agree that Steve is very oppressive character but Dabuz’s take means very little. He is just a gatekeeper for most top 8s anyhow. Again not saying Steve doesn’t pose potential problems but highlighting the opinion of someone who is not a serious pick to win most anything regardless if Steve is present or not is humorous at best.
💯
mkleo, play meta knight!
From my own spectator standpoint, I don't want to end up watching top 8s be nothing but Steve players. Boring as hell. That'd be like watching NY Yankees vs NY Yankees, whoever wins plays against the NY Yankees. The coaches are all different though, therefore the teams may play differently, but still the same teams you're watching all the way until the last game.
...eh weird example I know, but for me if I was watching as spectator I'd walk way and get a drink or something.
As for my own standpoint as a player/competitor? I would just have to deal with it and try to adapt, even though whether I win and go to the next match or lose and go through loser's bracket there's always going to be a Steve waiting. Frustrating af....but..yeah.
If there is the potential for a banning to happen, then I'm for it.
congestion or a stuff nose
As much as you can say how broken Steve or Sonic is, there’s only a few representatives of the character at a high level. It’s clearly more than the character itself but the skill the players have with the character
Sonic is overrated. Sonix is insane. Don't put him in the same category as Steve.
@@lokks2130 Dude he’s def there. Ken is also insane with Sonic
Ken loses to way more players. If Sonix wasn't as skilled as he is currently, nobody would have Sonic in the top 5. He's a great character but he doesn't compare to Steve.
@@lokks2130 The gap between Steve and Sonic is very very small. Sonic may even be better, just depends on what you value in a top tier. Also the “It’s just Sonix” argument is pretty weak. he just proves how insane that character’s tools are.
@@RealBroccoliHour The gap between Steve and the rest of the cast is a considerable size, but the gap between how much you and the rest of the community dislike Steve and Sonic is what's small. Unfortunately Smash players can't reconcile dislike and tier placement, so it goes over their heads that Steve quite literally does everything Sonic does but better.
Nope. It's a strong argument, because he brought up Ken. Ken has always been there. He has little to no part in why Sonic is valued as high as he is. It's mostly Sonix. That's just true, it doesn't really matter how you interpret it.
Why Leo say Yung Link instead of Young Link? Stop listening Kpop my guy.
Hoping for steve to get banned
Acola is just a campy guy, who plays to win, he’s not fun to watch and I can guarantee not to play against
ya Leo is wrong at 29:16. Steve is one of the best chars but hes not the best. MK and Bayo was 100x better with how many MK and Bayo mains there were. Steve is slow. he gets rushed down hard. you cant say the same for Bayo and MK. Do you know how many mirror Matches we saw of MK because of how broken he was? he can dominate you from start to finish or he can time you out. Bayo's ladder combos were insane.
i still think Melee fox is the best char in smash history though. with how much representation he gets at majors and how many majors he has won for over a decade now. Steve maybe great but you will not so over crowd the top 8 like the above do.
mkleo should go back to ike. am i rite? or am i rite? anybody? hello?
28:07 you mean the same players that were saying "Steve is fine" when the "guys on social media" wanted him banned. I'm pretty sure both of you are on record stating this. Stated in videos and on Twitter.
I'm talking about when all the Steve mains were coming out of no where making it to top 10 or better then not even top 32 but now that.
Even after that when Acola started buzzing you still didn't think Steve should be banned. But now Acola isn't as potent on hit, loses more often and is like the only Steve main making top 10... Now Steve is an issue!? With Sonix not engaging Spargo in grand finals and Tweek doing the same to Acola how the hell is he the issue!?
I'm going to tell y'all like y'all have always said until more recently... LEARN THE MU and GET GOOD. It's obvious being a top player doesn't mean your opinion is correct. When the LITERAL GOAT is still admitting he doesn't know certain MU this late in the game it's obvious even their opinions aren't as educated as you'd think. Stop the cap
Nair up smash is not a thin g with brawler, i dunno what maister is talking about
He does have nair fsmash tho :)
I honestly bet if maister hadn’t fallen off he’d still have fun at the tournaments. It isn’t Steve. It’s just he can’t win anymore
just Ban Steve and Sonic .
Oooo maining mii brawler, weird choice
Oh god, I hope the Leo ROB is not the future.
just go play nairo n relearn the mu bro lol
I'm surprised Steve is being mentioned when Sonix and Sonic's playstyle and Tweek finally being shown to be a low-key camper is really what should be considered an issue
Sure, Steve has lots of cheese but his movement stats are trash and I say this as a Link main.
On top of that Acola is receiving all this hate and he didn't even reach Grands but Sonix did and decided to practice his parry for a min straight. So Steve and Acola is the issue, huh?! I'm from America and even I can see the bias the western smash community has.
Y'all ain't shit
Steve's poor mobility is compensated by his ability to set traps and cut off angles. Look at the Acola vs WebbJP set. Sheik is one of the fastest characters in the game and yet WebbJP still got chased down by Steve because of his tools to cut off parts of the stage.
This is one of the rare occasions that Acola hasn't made it to grand finals.
@@dripfoe_3307naw dude. I think your looking at it the wrong way. Notice you think controlling space to slow down and constrict your opponents movements is not the same as "chasing them down". Link uses the same type of methods to "compensate" for his as well but it's fine.
The point I was making about his poor movement is that it can still be exploited. I don't think your scenario correlates since, like you said, he really only slowed Webb JPs movement instead of outright chasing him down. The compensation takes resources and even that is a weakness.
@@s3eriousbl9ck26 Nah, you're clearly looking at it the wrong way. I'd imagine that most people would understand what I mean and would agree that Steve aggressively setting traps, to constrict movement to literally corner his opponent can be seen as chasing his opponent down, not in the literal sense but indirectly.
Yes the point you made was that his stats are bad and can be exploited, my counter is that his tools make up for it. You haven't countered what I said, you just repeated yourself for some reason. Slowing your opponent down to hit them or rushing your opponent down with great speed to hit them is so similar in its goal that most people would see them as the same because of their intention: getting close.
So far Steve's "weakness" with resources has shown to be lessened by managing those resources. Good Steve players have resources 95% of the time so much so that whenever good Steve mains run out of resources, the commentators make note of it as it is not something that happens often.
It doesn’t matter how good you are, unless Acola chokes, you’re not winning.
0-6 against Sparg0 this year. 0-2 against sonix. Some games against sparg0 mightve been close , but acola rn aint beating sonix
@@Shadrag they’re too big brain I guess
いつまでbanの話してるの？
日本でbanの話なんてもうしてないよ？
I CANT HEAR THIS 2 GUYS CRYING. HOW SPARGO AND SONIX DESTROY STEVE PRETTY BADLY JUST GET BETTER ON STEVE AND THATS IT
THE WAY SPARGO HUMIKUATES STEVE AND THIS GUYS CRYING LIKE THIS
The only reason why they say ban Steve instead of ban Steve and Sonic is because Sonix is on LG. Also, there is no way in hell Steve is more broken than Bayo in S4 or MK/Icies in Brawl.
Steve is more broken. Bayo and MK were broken because they're respective games weren't nearly as balanced. But Steve is somehow the single best and most centralizing character in a game where everyone is bullshit.
Acola is so carried he plays so lame just camping people out. He makes Sonix look more hype.
Yk he secondaries aegis and could probably beat 99% of players with half the cast right
Its hard to call Acola carried when he:
A. is the #1 player in the world. Even if he is using Steve no other Steve player is getting the results he is.
B. Is not exclusively tied to Steve, unlike other Steve players. While he gets all of his results with Steve, he also can put up a big fight with Aegis and Kazuya and has gotten close game 5s with other top players without using Steve, even beating them in some cases. This is vastly different to other Steve players where they pick up Steve and suddenly just start winning. (Like Onin/Pocket and Riku) Steve is like a lesser extent to the Smash 4 Bayonetta scenario but it still gives me that vibes. Acola is just excluded from the group as he has proven himself as a player and above that group.
What Muteace describes him and someone like Tea is "SUPER DUPER WINNER"......where they only just pick the characters that give the most reward for the least amount of effort. In other words, they just pick the easy to play top tiers. But its hard to call these players carried if they are always putting up a fight with different characters moreso them just playing to win, which is a valid strat in every fighting game.
Well I would like to see him continue to play other characters, I only saw him play aegis one time with Spargo. I hope Steve does get banned it’s such a snooze fest watching him there’s nothing hype about Steve at all.
@@Latias38 his other characters are decent, but they will never win him any majors like his steve did. if he dropped steve right now he isnt even top 15 anymore
@@Similarity_ you could say that about anyone dropping their main lmao. where would light be without fox, sonix without sonic? Skill wise, leo puts acola top 10 and sparg0 puts him top 5.