Which is super rare. See Ola's videos when he overload the signal in and get a distorted "distorted" sound. I used to have a MONSTER tone with a Mesa Quad pre + Marshall 9200 + Digitech 2120 31 bands EQ and guess what...? There was NO space left in the mix for anything else! The last thing you need is an overdrive in such chain and that's why all modern metal sounds shit! Overly compressed, saturated, dead, dry, mechanised, quantised, sampled, toothpaste density suffocated tones!!! Let it breaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatheeeeeeeee man!!
Not to be too literal here,but... "need" is a strong word. 5150's, SLO-100's, lots of Mesa Mark series & Rectifier series, and many, many more do not NEED an Overdrive. All of those amps can produce crushing tone without any kind of boost. That's a matter of personal preference and your picking hand. For example, I play in a death metal band, and while I use a 1994 Peavey 5150, and only use my Ghoul Screamer for solos, my other guitarist plays through a 1997 Rev G Triple Rectifier and runs an MXR GT-OD in front at all times. The amp itself definitely does NOT "need" the boost. He just prefers the response he gets with it. An amp "needing" an overdrive is not the same thing as an amp that can occasionally "benefit" from one. Just like "Good Metal Tone" and "Modern Metal Tone" are not the same thing. A good metal tone can be many things. Modern is just one of those things.
I usually say the overdrive pedal is an EMG simulator. It boosts the volume and sculpts the sound. People who bag on OD pedals usually swear by active pickups, so that logic tends to work.
@@Ottophil Well that depends on the overdrive, basically if the first op amp is before or after the clipping stage. If it's before, it clips the amplified signal, which acts as a compressor. There's other ways as well, so it really depends on what the layout of the OD is.
I use a GE7 always on for this purpose! Cut a little of the LOW lows, nice boost in all mid range freqs, small high cut and then some volume boost! Works a treat 🤘 Keep up the good work Fluff, love the channel!
Once I got my Hughes & Kettner Grandmaster 40 I pretty much stopped using all my drive & distortion pedals. So I sold them and bought a Marshall DSL20HR head. Now I can play with a stereo rig. No regrets on that.
Surely he’s talking about the owner. The pedal is one of the best I’ve ever had, build quality and effect quality. That thing into a tube amp is in a league of its own
I agree with what your saying. I think it’s a matter of perception, as I like to think of the pedal adding to the amp, not completing it. That said, there is some validity to the idea that a “new” amp that cost $3,000+ shouldn’t need anything. In as much as say spending $2,500 on a Les Paul should mean it doesn’t need a set up to stay in tune and not fret buzz. But perhaps in that situation your buying the wrong amp. Seems like a lot of us keep buying 30+ year old amps expecting them to have that modern metal tone. Not to mention that the tone a lot of people are chasing is on an album made in a studio, with tones of post production, and then compressed to an mp3 format. There’s a reason engineers listen to a playback, to see what the “perfect track” sounds like through the monitors
Knowing that for high-gain metal tones, most people use a tube screamer (or similar boost) to tighten up the amp's response, I think its reasonable that amp manufacturers build this functionality into their amps since this is what guitarists are wanting. Its really not difficult to build a TS9 circuit into the front end of an amp AND have it be switchable.
True, it is ironic that you can often get better tone from e.g. a modeling amp that costs a fraction of the cost of a boutique tube amp out-of-the-box. Or maybe it's perfectly consistent? Is the point of boutique gear spending money?
They did, it was the Marshall JCM 900, although you couldn't control the parameters. In the 90's most people on the Metal community seemed to hate it because it didn't have enough gain, and for purists the solid state circuitry before the preamp tubes kind of modulated the tone in a cold way.
A tube screamer/tube screamer style circuit also add's a mid hump to your guitar sound which works very well with high gain amplifiers and helps you cut through a mix better. Some amplifiers however do not like tube screamers(Vox, Matchless) and prefer more "transparent" circuits such as a klon, timmy, hotcake or bluesbreaker style circuit as a boost.
Generally I agree with Fluff on stuff. Here’s my take on this one. I don’t like double switching when I need to hit the drive and go heavy. So I bought an amp that did the tone and feel I wanted on it’s own and learned to use that amp. Do I use ODs? Yes. On my clean channel. I don’t need it on the dirty channels because they already do what I want them to. I saved and got an Oni and a Diezel. If I need a different EQ going in, I’ll use an EQ. When I got my Oni, for giggles at practice, I turned the boost on just to see what kind of difference it made. Me and literally everyone there agreed it got too brash sounding. With two different drives. If I have to change the amp settings, then I’d need the boost to sound right all the time. I don’t like gritty cleans. So that leaves me with an expensive MIDI pedal loop situation that I don’t really want to mess with. The Herbert does just fine. I’ll continue to use boosts on my clean channel for my bluesy and mid gain tones. If you want to dance to get your tones live or got one of those pedal loop things, do you. I have no issues with people doing it. I have issues with marrying yourself to the idea that you need one for good metal tone. That’s false. You may want one for stuffer feel or to high the front end harder, but again, I get enough gain and cut to play almost any style necessary sans boost. This is a flavor/seasoning thing, not a need thing.
A good metal amp doesn't "need" an od. It comes down to preference really. Anyone is more than welcome to just plug and play if they want. There's no rules.
Yeah, I have a 6505 and I can get perfectly usable and tight enough tones even for modern death metal and grindcore with no pedals whatsoever in front of it, but I still boost it with an overdrive (or HM-2 if I'm feeling Swedish) a lot of times for the chunky pushed midrange and extra bite. If I'm going for a thick, growly, saturated tone I'll leave the pedal off and run with just the head, but neither option is mandatory
If you just don't like how a Tube Screamer cuts the low end, try one of the following: Nobels ODR-1 Marshall Guv'nor Way Huge Green Rhino Any EQ pedal (graphic or parametric)
You're literally describing signal gain. What I think you mean is that the overdrive or boost doesn't necessarily, itself, need to add distortion (saturation)
Mr. Fluff, I can only assume that this video is likely in response to the comments you got on the Mesa Badlander Demo. Personally, I think that anyone should play with whatever amp config they want..whether it has an overdrive in front of it or not. It's all subjective and preferences will obviously vary from player to player However, I do not believe that an overdrive should be used when doing an Amp DEMO. At least not right away. You've got a great channel and a lot of followers (like myself) that I'm sure would like to hear the native sound of the amp. I'm not at all suggesting don't use an overdrive altogether, but maybe demo amps first without a boost / overdrive.....and then make a second pass with one so everyone can hear the difference. Just a suggestion. I think that would cover all the bases and make everyone happy....but what do I know? It seems the current trend or motto these days is "We're not happy until your'e not happy". Lol. At any rate, love the channel. Keep rippin'!
AMEN Brother!!! I always play thru 2 different full Marshall stacks(even at bedroom levels). Like you said, I don't turn the gain all the way up, and a simple BOSS OD1 with the gain to 0 and Level to 10 makes it turbo like. REALLY sounds ridiculous as far as rich harmonic distortion. Some reverb, and delay and it's a done deal. You are my favorite channel and yes I love your humor. Look forward to next...
TBH, I don't realy like the sound of amps when they get boosted. Of course some need that like some rectifiers (2012 ones I think) but I feel like they sound better and are more recongnizeable without a boost.
Fluff you HAVE to try squirting one of those mio flavorings into a topo chico, it changed the way i see the drink and it doesn’t add any sugar or anything.
To tweak the car/tires analogy: the amp is the car with radial tires and the overdrive pedal is a set of sticky ass summer performance tires. Yeah, you can drive it on the OEM tires just fine, but everything handles better with stickier tires.
I would even say, that you don't need a "metal amp" to get a great metal tone. Im playing through a Highes and Kettner Tubemeister 36. In the lead channel with an overdrive in front i can get a nice agressive and tight tone. One pedal gave my amp another dimension without the need of investing a lot of money.
I agree that a Tubemeister is a very capable amp for metal, I also agree with the original sentiment. I use a Egnater Renegade, which is about as high gain as your average Marshall. But with a Precision Drive in front of it, it'll do all sorts of nasty death metal tones.
I keep hearing this for years: overdrive pedals are for level boost and some tone shaping. Nobody is ever using the drive knob, right? So WHY NOT use an EQ pedal then? For those purposes, boost and shaping they are WAAAY better and more versatile. What do I miss here?
I recently put a tubescreamer type pedal into my favorite high gain amp and I was kinda blown away. It made the sound more modern, less thrash metal ish. But that was with gain 1 /10 on the pedal. And it really helped these dark OEM pickups. Probably not necessary with actives.
In regards to adding more gain, just use the BOOST button on the amp's footswitch. That, or hit the channel switch button, and go to your "lead channel." Now, the way I have always used Tube Screamers or Klons is to cut out some of the low frequencies, because most "metal" amps tend to get flubby in the low frequencies. But, of course, you could just turn down the amp's bass knob to get rid of the flubby sound.
I would like to see someone do a full review of using a mxr 10 band eq as an boost, between the eq section and gain I think there are many possibilities out of one pedal, I do it into a hx stomp but it’s not quite the same as going into an amp
its not quite the same as an overdrive pedal but still eq's are indispensable tool. What you miss out using an eq pedal is: any sort of clipping built into the OD, be it op-amp, silicon, etc etc, and you also dont get the exact EQ curve of the OD pedal.
For those guys who don’t want to buy an additional OD pedal There’s this German amplifier company called Driftwood where you have an inbuilt TS-808 circuit in that amp Also fluff great video as always I think the right OD is like choosing the perfect sauce for your steak 🤌🤌🤌 Not everybody likes it, but everyone’s got a different taste
Been using my Analogman SILENT Boss GE-7 to boost the signal and shape the tone before entering my Bugera 333XL Infinium. It allows me to get the "chug" I want and also sort of "balance" different guitars with different PUs in order to get the tone that I want (basically around the Bridge PU, Neck PU being the accessory option). So I can achieve some sort of consistency, no matter which guitar I use. I found out that although the Flex EQ7 is more "practical" as it stores presets, it isn't as silent as the Analogman EQ, so I got used to keep a little note on my pedalboard with the various EQ settings depending on the various guitars I play.
Great video 👍I personally put an EVH OD in front of my 6505 Peavey head, not all the time , or I will use the TS , sometimes I don’t want my standard amp to sound like everybody else’s standard amp, also when I buy high quality chocolate ice cream I always put extra chocolate topping on top, enough is good, more is extra good 👍🎸
At 2:24, when you refer to "gain", are you talking about distortion? I could be mistaken, but as far as I know, gain *is* amplifying the signal. If you amplify the voltage on the signal line, you have increased the gain. Whether that leads to distortion or not, and what component does the distortion, depends on the limits of the valves or diodes in your amp. So surely exactly the point of a boost is to add extra gain (amplify the guitar signal), but not necessarily distortion.
While I do use a TS style pedal in front of a high gain amp id prefer demos on the amp to really showcase the amps pure tone and perhaps a small section with it boosted
Thank you, I am the same way. Sometimes I turn my clean boost on my soldano or splawn because I enjoy the tone! Sometimes I don’t want it to be super tight so I turn it off and get that gooey melted sound. It’s like saying I don’t need a reverb pedal because my amp already has reverb.. sometimes you do!
I have never used the Drive knob on a Tubescreamer. Basically I use the pedal for the Tone knob (and just crank the Level to full), the way it tightens up the sound and makes it more spanky and aggressive is exactly what I like, and i like how it makes the amp react more to my picking hand. Whenever I hear amps without it, they always sound softer and more "wooly". Basically what i'm saying is, I want a Fortin Grind or 33, since they're basically Screamers without the Drive part and with a gnarly EQ,
For anyone thats boost/overdrive averse for guitar amps, I think a good option is the Mesa Mark amps. I like the thing of the eq section as a basic Graphic EQ boost section, and the actual graphic eq section sliders as the actual amp EQ. I think its a good in the amp representation of the powerful effect of using some kind of boost and sculpting tool prior to the amp.
Hi Fluff, I like this video and agree with you. I have a question tho, about overdrive pedals and probably many of us would benefit from your answer as you are experienced in this field. As you have said it in the video, lot of them work differently and add different flavours to the tone. Can you give some ideas to us, just vaguely, which pedals give which characteristics to the soundscape, or at least where, in which direction we should start our journey in experimenting with them? What do we have to look out for? Thank you in advance.
you hit the nail on the head...an OD pedal will add extra flavor to the amp...I haven't used any OD's that add a flavor I like (JCM 800 is only exception, that amp has to be boosted to sound good & just about anything works)...so i don't use OD's as i want to retain the original flavor of the amp..if i wanna push it, I'll use an EQ pedal & keep the tone & add/subtract frequencies i want/don't want
I had the most hilariously bad reliability with bogner back from 2003 - 2006, long story short my dealer stopped selling them they were so bad at warranty repairs.
@@sunnohh My friend had an Uberschall from around the same time period and it gave him all sorts of trouble....totally put him off Bogner. I still have a mid 90's Ecstasy, which has been bulletproof.
Agreed. I use to agree with those guys. I got the Revv 100p because it was tight sounding and didn’t need a boost, I was pleasantly surprised when I noticed it sounds better boosted. Got a tube screamer in front now.
I always use a boss sd1 for a clean boost just to tighten up my tone. Recently got a mxr 10 band with settings like Kerry king with the volume up and gain off and turn down the amps gain and I get a nasty gritty aggressive tone. I just learned about using the 10 band in the effects loop. Along with those two pedals I got a bbe sonic stomp maximizer and that pedal adds punch and note clarity
I agree with the small and vocal group about boosts :) That's why I REFUSED to boost my Rectifier pre NO MATTER WHAT (but now I do...lol) Anyway: I would expect a proper $$$$k amp to have at least ONE on-board overdrive option (REVV anybody???) based on a well-used OD (TS circuit or/and a clean boost) that could be engaged on/off. If you want more options, use your own. And yes, ODs maybe like your cars' tyres, but you never bought a car WITHOUT any FACTORY tyres on, have you?
yo so I got this expression pedal hooked up to the compressor of TD NOVA dynamic eq ánd at the front position got a low pass auto filter. It's the coolest effect I've ever had and I can set it up however I want it's so cool.
Hey Fluff, you should reach out to Rainger FX and get one of their Minibar pedals to review. The one that supposedly changes tone depending on what liquid you put in the reservoir. Drop some Topo Chico in it and see how it sounds. We call that brand synergy.
That’s because it would be ideal to have an amp that doesn’t need anything else. There are probably people that still use a boost in front of amps that already have a boost integrated. Simply because that’s the norm. But it would be awesome to not have to use one. The least amount of gear to haul around, the better
Just to be clear he’s talking about Overdrive /boost pedals. Not Distortion pedals. In this case the pedal is used more to increase the signal than distort the signal itself -level up and gain lower. Without a overdrive/boost the first gain stage of your amp is running CLEAN due to the low voltage pickups produce. With an overdrive/boost you can drive the first gain stage harder -increasing distortion. This will also increase the distortion to the cascaded stages afterwards. If your amp is already producing tons of distortion to begin with then you should back off on the preamp gain to compensate. Use your ears when adjusting both the pedal and the amp. Another bonus to using a boost/ overdrive such as the tube screamer is that they notch off the lowest bass frequencies and add mids. This “tightens up” the sound which often is beneficial for high gain.
Actually the overdrive raises the gain not volume. Using an overdrive by raising the drive knob soft clips the signal before the amp vs using an overdrive like a boost by raising the level knob which boosts your signal before the amp and hence adds more gain to the preamp
On an EVH 50W III only the blue channel seems to be benefited from boosting. On red channel I had to put gain on 0.5 and still didn't get any significant improvement. All in all I have the impression that your pickups need to be lo to med with this amp to utilize a boost to its fullest. Unless I am missing something. Cheers!
My Dover DA50 and Engl Savage mk2 dont need a boost. Matter of fact, the Dover doesn't take them well at all, but the onboard TS style boost works perfect for some reason.
Good video Fluff. My Mesa Triple Crown definitely doesn't need the Maxon 808 i own, but it sure does sound good with it on lol. Any amp that doesn't play nice with pedals typically isn't a amp worth buying in my opinion.
The comments I see the most are on 5150 forums saying "5150s don't need and overdrive, just turn up the gain there's already too much of it" without realizing that the gain is not the point
totally agree ! every amp ive owned in my opinion needed boosted. ive had all sorts of od pedals, the fortin ones too, right now im using the ge7, much more tunable than a one knob od. my rev f blackface triple is totally lost in my bands mix at rehearsal, needs a clean boost or od to get the tightness, articulation and that mid cut to be heard.
I have only ever used an OD with the green channel on my revv g120. Never really felt like I was missing anything otherwise. Tried a few different ones a few times, and I just like it the way it is.
I modded my Peavey Valveking 100 head and it doesnt take a boost because the Gain is already so high & Distortion is already so tight that a boost is counterproductive. It took a LOT of tweaking to get there though. You can boost tubes in the circuitry a bunch of different ways to eliminate the need for a boost completely.
I've never understood the correlation between quality and monetary cost. Should EVERYTHING in my chain be just as expensive as my head? Should I only use $2000 pedals? $2000 cables? $2000 strings? I just don't understand, if it gets the sound you're after why would cost have anything to do with it?
As popular as it is, it should be implemented in the amp to be able to turn on or off. (for newly designed amps) And some amps do have it. A clean boost + tone is basically what's needed. From a different perspective, it's should be more commonly equipped than reverb.
Overdrive pedal is a must!!! Eq pedal is a must too!!! For me!!! But my silver jubilee (not a metal amp) can do nice heavy rock tone by itself and more chugga chugga by using od pedal and eq pedal. The point is the cab and speakers, the amp just give 40% of the tone, maybe even less
Do you need it? NOOOO!!! Do you Want it? YESSSS!!!- Marilyn Manson. I brought a few pedals to an open mic recently to be used in the house amp. One other guitarist asked if the Emma PisDIYauWot was supposed to be higher gain than the Freidman BE-OD. Not necessarily, just different sounds. To me, that's what the pedal does-- take a relatively straight forward amp and give it more tonal options without making the whole rig hard to use. Pedals are flavors. TBH both my Mesa and Budda can do metal tones without pedals, but they can do cool stuff with.
I've always used an OD in front of my amps, because it helps me get the sound I want. Without it, I find it difficult for me to find a good sound that I like, and it always feels like somethings missing without it. In this case, I use an OD to add flavour. Don't get me wrong, there are times where I'll turn it off, and go without it, but in the end I always got back. Because it's what I like. Btw I use Bias Fx/Jamup. Yeah, yeah, I know. But I'm able to get "my sound" from it and it's highly versatile for my needs and a tube amp/pedal setup is simply to loud for my living situation.
I like boost pedals in front (whether I'm playing guitar or bass) because using one drives an amp into compression faster, at lower/manageable "bedroom" levels.
All to taste, or simply not observe-but the pickup output should inform how one might proceed... Will an EMG 81 into a Diezel VH4 definitely yearn for additional squaring off, by adopting a boost method?...
I have a Soul Food OD pedal! and use it to make my guitars sound like an - AM Radio :)I have never used it to over drive the signal! if anything I am cutting it I think? I keep the Vol @ 2 / Drive Maxxed out , & the Freq: 2 hairs to the right of center ~ has a Neat sounding old fashion radio effect
I go back and forth re preferring the red channel on my 5153 boosted and unboosted - seems to depend on my mood. Both sound great, but definitely each sounds different. I wish more amps would have multiple inputs so the od switches with the channels though - dare to dream :)
I owned my 5153 for two years before I ever tried boosting it. It’s got a great crunch without a boost, but with a boost pedal in front it sounds absolutely monsterous.
![[Watch Party] RoV Pro League 2024 Winter | with Moowan ( Bacon Time Vs Talon )](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CCEDhu6dPN8/mqdefault.jpg)
To quote some Swedish guy, "How can less be more? More is more."
@Dizzy Duke bruh why did you comment that? Literally the definition of non-sequitur
Ola Englund said that didn’t he
Ynwgie Malmsteen reference for those wondering ha
@@turboesther36 yngwie malmsteen
@@AzathothsAlarmClock camera pans to security guard - "HE likes donuts."
There are no rules, except "make it sound good."
And don't kill people.
@@robbirose7032 Good point.
Which is super rare. See Ola's videos when he overload the signal in and get a distorted "distorted" sound. I used to have a MONSTER tone with a Mesa Quad pre + Marshall 9200 + Digitech 2120 31 bands EQ and guess what...? There was NO space left in the mix for anything else! The last thing you need is an overdrive in such chain and that's why all modern metal sounds shit! Overly compressed, saturated, dead, dry, mechanised, quantised, sampled, toothpaste density suffocated tones!!! Let it breaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatheeeeeeeee man!!
@@user-eu3mn6ss5l Euronymous has left the conversation
Not to be too literal here,but... "need" is a strong word. 5150's, SLO-100's, lots of Mesa Mark series & Rectifier series, and many, many more do not NEED an Overdrive. All of those amps can produce crushing tone without any kind of boost. That's a matter of personal preference and your picking hand. For example, I play in a death metal band, and while I use a 1994 Peavey 5150, and only use my Ghoul Screamer for solos, my other guitarist plays through a 1997 Rev G Triple Rectifier and runs an MXR GT-OD in front at all times. The amp itself definitely does NOT "need" the boost. He just prefers the response he gets with it. An amp "needing" an overdrive is not the same thing as an amp that can occasionally "benefit" from one. Just like "Good Metal Tone" and "Modern Metal Tone" are not the same thing. A good metal tone can be many things. Modern is just one of those things.
Also... I laughed hysterically at the beginning, because the impression of the "commenters" was awesome.
I usually say the overdrive pedal is an EMG simulator. It boosts the volume and sculpts the sound. People who bag on OD pedals usually swear by active pickups, so that logic tends to work.
Bingo.
I do both 🤓
To simulate the EMG tone you’re gonna need a compressor too
@@Ottophil Well that depends on the overdrive, basically if the first op amp is before or after the clipping stage. If it's before, it clips the amplified signal, which acts as a compressor. There's other ways as well, so it really depends on what the layout of the OD is.
That's a good point. Active pickups do include a booster and eq.
Then again i sometimes use active pickups AND a tube screamer :)
I use a GE7 always on for this purpose! Cut a little of the LOW lows, nice boost in all mid range freqs, small high cut and then some volume boost! Works a treat 🤘
Keep up the good work Fluff, love the channel!
Im the same way dude. I have a ton of tone test examples of this on my channel. GE-7 is great because it keeps all the dynamics in the pick attack.
4:20 "Maybe I want a Fullto- oh wait, not you."
*John Browne has marked you for death*
0:26 felt like I had stepped into a Finn Mckenty video for a sec
Once I got my Hughes & Kettner Grandmaster 40 I pretty much stopped using all my drive & distortion pedals.
So I sold them and bought a Marshall DSL20HR head.
Now I can play with a stereo rig.
No regrets on that.
I’m scratching my head on how a person could improve on the GMD40. It’s incredible
What’s wrong with the OCD?
The sound or the company owner?
Surely he’s talking about the owner. The pedal is one of the best I’ve ever had, build quality and effect quality. That thing into a tube amp is in a league of its own
The OCD is one of the best pedals for the Rockerverb...It's revered...
I agree with what your saying. I think it’s a matter of perception, as I like to think of the pedal adding to the amp, not completing it. That said, there is some validity to the idea that a “new” amp that cost $3,000+ shouldn’t need anything. In as much as say spending $2,500 on a Les Paul should mean it doesn’t need a set up to stay in tune and not fret buzz. But perhaps in that situation your buying the wrong amp. Seems like a lot of us keep buying 30+ year old amps expecting them to have that modern metal tone. Not to mention that the tone a lot of people are chasing is on an album made in a studio, with tones of post production, and then compressed to an mp3 format. There’s a reason engineers listen to a playback, to see what the “perfect track” sounds like through the monitors
Knowing that for high-gain metal tones, most people use a tube screamer (or similar boost) to tighten up the amp's response, I think its reasonable that amp manufacturers build this functionality into their amps since this is what guitarists are wanting. Its really not difficult to build a TS9 circuit into the front end of an amp AND have it be switchable.
True, it is ironic that you can often get better tone from e.g. a modeling amp that costs a fraction of the cost of a boutique tube amp out-of-the-box. Or maybe it's perfectly consistent? Is the point of boutique gear spending money?
They did, it was the Marshall JCM 900, although you couldn't control the parameters. In the 90's most people on the Metal community seemed to hate it because it didn't have enough gain, and for purists the solid state circuitry before the preamp tubes kind of modulated the tone in a cold way.
What if I scream real loud at my amp?
worked for me but with mixed results
Screaming at your amp is proven to give you a gain boost and +20 cool points.
It will sound better, purely from fear of you.
A tube screamer/tube screamer style circuit also add's a mid hump to your guitar sound which works very well with high gain amplifiers and helps you cut through a mix better. Some amplifiers however do not like tube screamers(Vox, Matchless) and prefer more "transparent" circuits such as a klon, timmy, hotcake or bluesbreaker style circuit as a boost.
Personally I don’t like to use ODs, I’m a fan of higher output pickups. But of course it’s all about the individual
Generally I agree with Fluff on stuff. Here’s my take on this one. I don’t like double switching when I need to hit the drive and go heavy. So I bought an amp that did the tone and feel I wanted on it’s own and learned to use that amp. Do I use ODs? Yes. On my clean channel. I don’t need it on the dirty channels because they already do what I want them to. I saved and got an Oni and a Diezel. If I need a different EQ going in, I’ll use an EQ. When I got my Oni, for giggles at practice, I turned the boost on just to see what kind of difference it made. Me and literally everyone there agreed it got too brash sounding. With two different drives. If I have to change the amp settings, then I’d need the boost to sound right all the time. I don’t like gritty cleans. So that leaves me with an expensive MIDI pedal loop situation that I don’t really want to mess with. The Herbert does just fine. I’ll continue to use boosts on my clean channel for my bluesy and mid gain tones. If you want to dance to get your tones live or got one of those pedal loop things, do you. I have no issues with people doing it. I have issues with marrying yourself to the idea that you need one for good metal tone. That’s false. You may want one for stuffer feel or to high the front end harder, but again, I get enough gain and cut to play almost any style necessary sans boost. This is a flavor/seasoning thing, not a need thing.
“Maybe I want a fullto- nope not you” 😂
That comment had me dying laughing
Just depends on what tones you are going after. I personally never use boosts.
A good metal amp doesn't "need" an od. It comes down to preference really. Anyone is more than welcome to just plug and play if they want. There's no rules.
Yeah, I have a 6505 and I can get perfectly usable and tight enough tones even for modern death metal and grindcore with no pedals whatsoever in front of it, but I still boost it with an overdrive (or HM-2 if I'm feeling Swedish) a lot of times for the chunky pushed midrange and extra bite. If I'm going for a thick, growly, saturated tone I'll leave the pedal off and run with just the head, but neither option is mandatory
"Fulltone...no not you" xD....I have so many od pedals for, boosting, my personal favorite is the ghoul screamer
The fulltone OCD in my helix LT works great with my dual rectifier and 5153
@@taylorwyatt333 nice, I have never tried one
I love my ocd paired with my 6505!
@@TeiasDoMultiverso i love my cheap chinese made ocd clone with my 6505, fuuuuuuuck mike fuller
I almost always use a tube screamer to brighten up my sound and to tighten it.
Bonus tip. Track one without and one with to get a clear full sound
If you just don't like how a Tube Screamer cuts the low end, try one of the following:
Nobels ODR-1
Marshall Guv'nor
Way Huge Green Rhino
Any EQ pedal (graphic or parametric)
Then you don’t play in Drop A or lower. Those of us who play low really need that low end cut.
Pretty sure the green rhino is just tube tubescreamer with a 100hz eq knob
@@gregnelson9335 I didn't say that I personally don't like it. I was just trying to be helpful for people who don't.
@@floridaman7079 sometimes that's all you need though
You're literally describing signal gain. What I think you mean is that the overdrive or boost doesn't necessarily, itself, need to add distortion (saturation)
Mr. Fluff, I can only assume that this video is likely in response to the comments you got on the Mesa Badlander Demo. Personally, I think that anyone should play with whatever amp config they want..whether it has an overdrive in front of it or not. It's all subjective and preferences will obviously vary from player to player However, I do not believe that an overdrive should be used when doing an Amp DEMO. At least not right away. You've got a great channel and a lot of followers (like myself) that I'm sure would like to hear the native sound of the amp. I'm not at all suggesting don't use an overdrive altogether, but maybe demo amps first without a boost / overdrive.....and then make a second pass with one so everyone can hear the difference. Just a suggestion. I think that would cover all the bases and make everyone happy....but what do I know? It seems the current trend or motto these days is "We're not happy until your'e not happy". Lol. At any rate, love the channel. Keep rippin'!
AMEN Brother!!!
I always play thru 2 different full Marshall stacks(even at bedroom levels). Like you said, I don't turn the gain all the way up, and a simple BOSS OD1 with the gain to 0 and Level to 10 makes it turbo like. REALLY sounds ridiculous as far as rich harmonic distortion. Some reverb, and delay and it's a done deal.
You are my favorite channel and yes I love your humor. Look forward to next...
TBH, I don't realy like the sound of amps when they get boosted. Of course some need that like some rectifiers (2012 ones I think) but I feel like they sound better and are more recongnizeable without a boost.
"Maybe I want a full toe.. No not you" drops OCD pedal 😂🤣😂🤣 hilarious!!
What do ppl have against the OCD? Genuinely curious
@@joshf9766 Mike Fuller, the maker of OCD, expressed anger at Black Lives Matter protests this spring, in turn making a lot of people angry at himself
@@joshf9766 Mike Fuller is a shithead.
Best part of the video! :D
I have an ocd. Long before that shit happened. It’s still a good pedal. That was funny though.
Fluff you HAVE to try squirting one of those mio flavorings into a topo chico, it changed the way i see the drink and it doesn’t add any sugar or anything.
To tweak the car/tires analogy: the amp is the car with radial tires and the overdrive pedal is a set of sticky ass summer performance tires. Yeah, you can drive it on the OEM tires just fine, but everything handles better with stickier tires.
I would even say, that you don't need a "metal amp" to get a great metal tone. Im playing through a Highes and Kettner Tubemeister 36. In the lead channel with an overdrive in front i can get a nice agressive and tight tone. One pedal gave my amp another dimension without the need of investing a lot of money.
I would say that is as much a metal amp as anything. Extremely high gain
I agree that a Tubemeister is a very capable amp for metal, I also agree with the original sentiment. I use a Egnater Renegade, which is about as high gain as your average Marshall. But with a Precision Drive in front of it, it'll do all sorts of nasty death metal tones.
Im using the black spirit 300 with a boost eq and a mxr pedal sounds pretty good in my opinion
An OD pedal was a must with my old JCM 900, back when I was an Azagthoth fanboy.
Boosts are like spices and herbs to a wholesome dish.
I keep hearing this for years: overdrive pedals are for level boost and some tone shaping. Nobody is ever using the drive knob, right? So WHY NOT use an EQ pedal then? For those purposes, boost and shaping they are WAAAY better and more versatile. What do I miss here?
Back to my 5150, an amp infamous for needing a tube screamer in front of it, lol
The Peavey one sure the EVH not so much
The 5150 II doesn’t need it. The lead on the original doesn’t need it. The only channel is maybe the green on the original.
@@MetalKillsRap2 Green was the good channel. Red makes your guitar sound like a reed instrument, all the way down to the white noise breath sounds.
@@fuzzshifter green is clean. I keep the green gain at maybe 1.5
I recently put a tubescreamer type pedal into my favorite high gain amp and I was kinda blown away. It made the sound more modern, less thrash metal ish. But that was with gain 1 /10 on the pedal. And it really helped these dark OEM pickups. Probably not necessary with actives.
I peed a little.
Ryan bringing back the guy humor = perfect boost
Two guitar players in our band.
We use a Tube Screamer when ever we have Solo’s but for the most part we use the Amp only. But to each their own.
In regards to adding more gain, just use the BOOST button on the amp's footswitch. That, or hit the channel switch button, and go to your "lead channel."
Now, the way I have always used Tube Screamers or Klons is to cut out some of the low frequencies, because most "metal" amps tend to get flubby in the low frequencies. But, of course, you could just turn down the amp's bass knob to get rid of the flubby sound.
I would like to see someone do a full review of using a mxr 10 band eq as an boost, between the eq section and gain I think there are many possibilities out of one pedal, I do it into a hx stomp but it’s not quite the same as going into an amp
Ask and you shall receive.
th-cam.com/video/CkUUwsZ6h7s/w-d-xo.html
its not quite the same as an overdrive pedal but still eq's are indispensable tool. What you miss out using an eq pedal is: any sort of clipping built into the OD, be it op-amp, silicon, etc etc, and you also dont get the exact EQ curve of the OD pedal.
For those guys who don’t want to buy an additional OD pedal
There’s this German amplifier company called Driftwood where you have an inbuilt TS-808 circuit in that amp
Also fluff great video as always
I think the right OD is like choosing the perfect sauce for your steak 🤌🤌🤌
Not everybody likes it, but everyone’s got a different taste
great explaination. It sound different with a drive in front, sharper maybe and less flubby.
I missed the beard files. A welcome return!
Well at least all their complaining seems to have spawned the Peavey Invective
lol it has a built in OD option.
"Does it need tires? Because I should be able to drive a car without tires. "😆
Been using my Analogman SILENT Boss GE-7 to boost the signal and shape the tone before entering my Bugera 333XL Infinium. It allows me to get the "chug" I want and also sort of "balance" different guitars with different PUs in order to get the tone that I want (basically around the Bridge PU, Neck PU being the accessory option). So I can achieve some sort of consistency, no matter which guitar I use. I found out that although the Flex EQ7 is more "practical" as it stores presets, it isn't as silent as the Analogman EQ, so I got used to keep a little note on my pedalboard with the various EQ settings depending on the various guitars I play.
Great video 👍I personally put an EVH OD in front of my 6505 Peavey head, not all the time , or I will use the TS , sometimes I don’t want my standard amp to sound like everybody else’s standard amp, also when I buy high quality chocolate ice cream I always put extra chocolate topping on top, enough is good, more is extra good 👍🎸
At 2:24, when you refer to "gain", are you talking about distortion? I could be mistaken, but as far as I know, gain *is* amplifying the signal. If you amplify the voltage on the signal line, you have increased the gain. Whether that leads to distortion or not, and what component does the distortion, depends on the limits of the valves or diodes in your amp. So surely exactly the point of a boost is to add extra gain (amplify the guitar signal), but not necessarily distortion.
While I do use a TS style pedal in front of a high gain amp id prefer demos on the amp to really showcase the amps pure tone and perhaps a small section with it boosted
Thank you! I try to explain this and never end up doing such a good job of it. Thank you!
Thank you, I am the same way. Sometimes I turn my clean boost on my soldano or splawn because I enjoy the tone! Sometimes I don’t want it to be super tight so I turn it off and get that gooey melted sound. It’s like saying I don’t need a reverb pedal because my amp already has reverb.. sometimes you do!
We use tub screamers into a duel rec and archon and they sound incredible with it. Helps with the tightness.
Totally agree ! For a tight metal tone in a mix I need my Maxon OD with my Recto !
I have a 5150 III. I use a OD! It sounds extra juicy :)
I think a razor blade counts as "The Beard Files."
I have never used the Drive knob on a Tubescreamer. Basically I use the pedal for the Tone knob (and just crank the Level to full), the way it tightens up the sound and makes it more spanky and aggressive is exactly what I like, and i like how it makes the amp react more to my picking hand. Whenever I hear amps without it, they always sound softer and more "wooly".
Basically what i'm saying is, I want a Fortin Grind or 33, since they're basically Screamers without the Drive part and with a gnarly EQ,
The one word that you said that could sum up this video...FLAVOR.
For anyone thats boost/overdrive averse for guitar amps, I think a good option is the Mesa Mark amps. I like the thing of the eq section as a basic Graphic EQ boost section, and the actual graphic eq section sliders as the actual amp EQ. I think its a good in the amp representation of the powerful effect of using some kind of boost and sculpting tool prior to the amp.
I still prefer my Mark IV with a boost
Hi Fluff,
I like this video and agree with you.
I have a question tho, about overdrive pedals and probably many of us would benefit from your answer as you are experienced in this field. As you have said it in the video, lot of them work differently and add different flavours to the tone. Can you give some ideas to us, just vaguely, which pedals give which characteristics to the soundscape, or at least where, in which direction we should start our journey in experimenting with them? What do we have to look out for? Thank you in advance.
you hit the nail on the head...an OD pedal will add extra flavor to the amp...I haven't used any OD's that add a flavor I like (JCM 800 is only exception, that amp has to be boosted to sound good & just about anything works)...so i don't use OD's as i want to retain the original flavor of the amp..if i wanna push it, I'll use an EQ pedal & keep the tone & add/subtract frequencies i want/don't want
Deadass tho, the only amp I ever tried that I thought had an absolutely perfect gain section (within moderation) was the EL34 Bogner Uberschall
I had the most hilariously bad reliability with bogner back from 2003 - 2006, long story short my dealer stopped selling them they were so bad at warranty repairs.
@@sunnohh My friend had an Uberschall from around the same time period and it gave him all sorts of trouble....totally put him off Bogner. I still have a mid 90's Ecstasy, which has been bulletproof.
I have an Uberschall and I use a Tuberscreamer with it because I wanted it to sound grittier
Agreed. I use to agree with those guys. I got the Revv 100p because it was tight sounding and didn’t need a boost, I was pleasantly surprised when I noticed it sounds better boosted. Got a tube screamer in front now.
I always use a boss sd1 for a clean boost just to tighten up my tone. Recently got a mxr 10 band with settings like Kerry king with the volume up and gain off and turn down the amps gain and I get a nasty gritty aggressive tone. I just learned about using the 10 band in the effects loop. Along with those two pedals I got a bbe sonic stomp maximizer and that pedal adds punch and note clarity
I enjoyed this video, I think some people complain just to complain. You’re right on point.
I look at it as spice. Different flavor, or depending on the pedal, another channel.
I agree with the small and vocal group about boosts :) That's why I REFUSED to boost my Rectifier pre NO MATTER WHAT (but now I do...lol) Anyway: I would expect a proper $$$$k amp to have at least ONE on-board overdrive option (REVV anybody???) based on a well-used OD (TS circuit or/and a clean boost) that could be engaged on/off. If you want more options, use your own. And yes, ODs maybe like your cars' tyres, but you never bought a car WITHOUT any FACTORY tyres on, have you?
Cool video. I have found that super hot active pickups don't need an overdrive as much
I always put a tube screamer in front of my jcm900 hi gain dual reverb, because it pushes it to chug more even with no gain on the tube screamer
yo so I got this expression pedal hooked up to the compressor of TD NOVA dynamic eq ánd at the front position got a low pass auto filter. It's the coolest effect I've ever had and I can set it up however I want it's so cool.
Hey Fluff, you should reach out to Rainger FX and get one of their Minibar pedals to review. The one that supposedly changes tone depending on what liquid you put in the reservoir. Drop some Topo Chico in it and see how it sounds. We call that brand synergy.
I lovee my TS808 i have it on 24/7 to get the best chunkyness out of the amp
Nice video, an overdrive pedal is essential for me.
That’s because it would be ideal to have an amp that doesn’t need anything else. There are probably people that still use a boost in front of amps that already have a boost integrated. Simply because that’s the norm. But it would be awesome to not have to use one. The least amount of gear to haul around, the better
Yup. Couldn't agree more. Own a number of amps, Egnater Armageddon and Laney Ironheart as call outs, both are perfect with od's.
Just to be clear he’s talking about Overdrive /boost pedals. Not Distortion pedals.
In this case the pedal is used more to increase the signal than distort the signal itself -level up and gain lower.
Without a overdrive/boost the first gain stage of your amp is running CLEAN due to the low voltage pickups produce.
With an overdrive/boost you can drive the first gain stage harder -increasing distortion.
This will also increase the distortion to the cascaded stages afterwards. If your amp is already producing tons of distortion to begin with then you should back off on the preamp gain to compensate. Use your ears when adjusting both the pedal and the amp.
Another bonus to using a boost/ overdrive such as the tube screamer is that they notch off the lowest bass frequencies and add mids. This “tightens up” the sound which often is beneficial for high gain.
Actually the overdrive raises the gain not volume. Using an overdrive by raising the drive knob soft clips the signal before the amp vs using an overdrive like a boost by raising the level knob which boosts your signal before the amp and hence adds more gain to the preamp
Ha , love it. Its fun to use different OD pedals , like multiples.
Thank you for putting that Fulltone pedal down 👍
On an EVH 50W III only the blue channel seems to be benefited from boosting. On red channel I had to put gain on 0.5 and still didn't get any significant improvement. All in all I have the impression that your pickups need to be lo to med with this amp to utilize a boost to its fullest. Unless I am missing something. Cheers!
My Dover DA50 and Engl Savage mk2 dont need a boost.
Matter of fact, the Dover doesn't take them well at all, but the onboard TS style boost works perfect for some reason.
How tight is the Dover? Mainly play 7 strings in A# and Drop G#
The funny thing is, the 5150ii/6505+ is the only amp I like the sound of without a boost lol
They have 6 preamp tubes so there's plenty of gain without the need of pedals.
@@louaguado995 that's not the only point of boosting though. It's also to tame the low end
Good video Fluff. My Mesa Triple Crown definitely doesn't need the Maxon 808 i own, but it sure does sound good with it on lol. Any amp that doesn't play nice with pedals typically isn't a amp worth buying in my opinion.
The comments I see the most are on 5150 forums saying "5150s don't need and overdrive, just turn up the gain there's already too much of it" without realizing that the gain is not the point
totally agree !
every amp ive owned in my opinion needed boosted. ive had all sorts of od pedals, the fortin ones too,
right now im using the ge7, much more tunable than a one knob od.
my rev f blackface triple is totally lost in my bands mix at rehearsal, needs a clean boost or od to get the tightness, articulation and that mid cut to be heard.
it really depends on what type of tone your are going for.
I have only ever used an OD with the green channel on my revv g120. Never really felt like I was missing anything otherwise. Tried a few different ones a few times, and I just like it the way it is.
I modded my Peavey Valveking 100 head and it doesnt take a boost because the Gain is already so high & Distortion is already so tight that a boost is counterproductive. It took a LOT of tweaking to get there though. You can boost tubes in the circuitry a bunch of different ways to eliminate the need for a boost completely.
GUYS!!! THE FUCKEN BEARD FILES ARE BACK!!
I've never understood the correlation between quality and monetary cost. Should EVERYTHING in my chain be just as expensive as my head? Should I only use $2000 pedals? $2000 cables? $2000 strings? I just don't understand, if it gets the sound you're after why would cost have anything to do with it?
As popular as it is, it should be implemented in the amp to be able to turn on or off. (for newly designed amps)
And some amps do have it.
A clean boost + tone is basically what's needed.
From a different perspective, it's should be more commonly equipped than reverb.
When you add an OD you’re changing the wave form in to a square wave, much like a solid state amp wave. But it does sound badass.
Overdrive pedal is a must!!! Eq pedal is a must too!!! For me!!!
But my silver jubilee (not a metal amp) can do nice heavy rock tone by itself and more chugga chugga by using od pedal and eq pedal.
The point is the cab and speakers, the amp just give 40% of the tone, maybe even less
Do you need it? NOOOO!!! Do you Want it? YESSSS!!!- Marilyn Manson. I brought a few pedals to an open mic recently to be used in the house amp. One other guitarist asked if the Emma PisDIYauWot was supposed to be higher gain than the Freidman BE-OD. Not necessarily, just different sounds. To me, that's what the pedal does-- take a relatively straight forward amp and give it more tonal options without making the whole rig hard to use. Pedals are flavors. TBH both my Mesa and Budda can do metal tones without pedals, but they can do cool stuff with.
I've always used an OD in front of my amps, because it helps me get the sound I want. Without it, I find it difficult for me to find a good sound that I like, and it always feels like somethings missing without it. In this case, I use an OD to add flavour. Don't get me wrong, there are times where I'll turn it off, and go without it, but in the end I always got back. Because it's what I like. Btw I use Bias Fx/Jamup. Yeah, yeah, I know. But I'm able to get "my sound" from it and it's highly versatile for my needs and a tube amp/pedal setup is simply to loud for my living situation.
Great topic man! I agree.
I like boost pedals in front (whether I'm playing guitar or bass) because using one drives an amp into compression faster, at lower/manageable "bedroom" levels.
All to taste, or simply not observe-but the pickup output should inform how one might proceed...
Will an EMG 81 into a Diezel VH4 definitely yearn for additional squaring off, by adopting a boost method?...
I use an Ibanez TS9 Tubescreamer to put a bit more bite and attack on my Bogner Uberschall
It’s like saying “Why do the Amps have EQ”.
This.... actually really helps, in a weird way. Seriously.
I have a Soul Food OD pedal! and use it to make my guitars sound like an - AM Radio :)I have never used it to over drive the signal! if anything I am cutting it I think? I keep the Vol @ 2 / Drive Maxxed out , & the Freq: 2 hairs to the right of center ~ has a Neat sounding old fashion radio effect
wait...but why DONT they build a "tubescreamer" into the circuit?
It’s been done.
The same thoughts I have
Hey man, I used to be one of those guys that thought that way. Thanks for this explanation. Very informative.
The only amps I have used that do not need a boost pedal is Mesa Mark series amps.
I go back and forth re preferring the red channel on my 5153 boosted and unboosted - seems to depend on my mood. Both sound great, but definitely each sounds different. I wish more amps would have multiple inputs so the od switches with the channels though - dare to dream :)
I owned my 5153 for two years before I ever tried boosting it. It’s got a great crunch without a boost, but with a boost pedal in front it sounds absolutely monsterous.