Almost 30 years ago, I was in the military and my son was in kindergarten in WV. He came home and said a teacher had taken his book away because he was getting the children's attention by reading to them. I went down to talk, and never saw the teacher. The Principal threatened to call CPS on me for "forcing my son to learn to read unnaturally early", and she suggested that I find another place for him or else. I had NO time nor resources to deal with this handsome Southern lady with her beehive hairdo and her elegant manners, so I put him in day care until 1st grade. His classmates may now be the people you address in this video. I was trained to fight terrorists and foreign enemies; the domestic ones have me totally buffaloed.
It took a while after I left Wyoming myself to realize that it was inevitable. Wyoming or West Virginia is a good place to be from. Now did I Ieave after HS? An AA? BS/BA? It really depends on how much the state wants to invest in higher education.
There's Coal miners in West Virginia. Will they enroll in major universities? Community Colleges would be better suit this population and provide direction to major universities outside the state. Miners can switch to mineral mining for the electrification of our energy technologies. New industries new educations.
If education is limited to something assumed to be all that miners need, then all you get is miners. Send them out of state for other degrees, and they will stay out of state The mine managers, the geologist, medical doctors, nurses etc. etc. that you need to have a health, growing community will have to come from outside the state, if you can lure them in. It is a loosing plan.@@robertlee8805
@@robertlee8805 Mountaintop removal (the final stage of mining) doesn't actually employ a lot of people. And WV doesn't have the fancy minerals for fancy technologies (which are mostly powered with natural gas generated electricity).
Education should not be a business. It is a public good, maybe the most salient example. There is so much money in this economy and it has been sequestered and hoarded by a tiny percentage of the population. If the US really cared about the future wealth redistribution would be a no-brainer.
why? It should be a business that promises return on investment. You pay us, we teach you something of value (like STEM), that you can use later to get a better paying job. Gender studies, diversity studies and liberal arts should be left for people that are financially secure and can afford to study something completely useless. And let natural selection sort out who is fit for college - entry exams.
If WVU wanted to make cuts it should have been to administrator’s salaries. There are nearly 100 people that make more than $200K a year and they are almost all admin and coaches. Gordon Gee, who received two votes of no confidence, still has a job and he’s making $800K a year. This is disgusting. That’s twice what the president of the USA makes. I worked at WVU and I can tell you that a whole lot of these do-nothing admin do very little to warrant the outrageous salaries they draw.
This is one of the "best kept" secrets when it comes to colleges and universities in America. Many administrators make astronomical salaries, while overcharging students, denying qualified professors tenure, underpaying adjunct professors, and graduate assistants, while skimming off the top of a top heavy budget.
University of Iowa is the same. They pay the football coach as much as 30 lecturers with PhDs. This isn't even a university anymore. It's a football team with a side hustle in tertiary education.
$22000/year is among lowest State universities? I paid $120/semester at The University of Michigan, then $72/quarter at Univ. of Calif-Berkeley. 80% of faculty in US colleges are "adjunct" meaning no tenure, no pension, no insurance. It is not faculty salaries, but administrators and campus building that cost the State budget, just as with workers and executives in business.
I've been teaching as an adjunct at a local private university part time for the last 5 years. At this point I've decided not to teach anymore. I've done the calculation on how much revenue the university is receiving from students, and for a class of 30 x3 credits, they're bringing in ~150k. My salary for 15 classes is only 2,300. I have to design and deliver over 22 hours of material, along with assignments, rubric, grading, and addressing students' individual concerns. I'm basically creating and delivering the actual thing that the students are paying for and receiving only ~1.5% of the cost. I looked up t-shirt manufacturing, and although it's a very different thing, ~6% of the final cost goes towards raw material, and ~14% goes to labor & design. People really should be considering how much of the actual cost of education is going to the people who are tasked with designing and delivering it.
Part of this trend is due to employers requiring university degrees even for jobs that don't need that level of education. As the demand for more high level education has increased over the years, the cost of it has increased proportionately.
Very true, I will quote a former ivory league president of Princeton University Woodrow Wilson, of something we seem to have lost in our modern world. I consider a intimate knowledge of the Bible a indispensable qualification of a well-educated man. Lastly the next time you drive your car thank working class people for building it. When you use heat at night a west virginia coal miner may have caused you to have heat. Some thoughts to ponder.
So you’re a business looking to invest somewhere where labor costs are low. Problem is, your company is a knowledge industry business, and so you’re going to have to convince your PhDs, lawyers, software, engineers, doctors, pharmacists, etc, to move to the new state. What do you do? You probably don’t move to the state that is beginning the process of shutting down their own state university. You don’t move to Iowa (where I live) because abortion is being made illegal. And then over time, this just gets exponentially worse. Governors in red states are absolutely incompetent in terms of attracting business, all they can do is cut taxes, but at some point you’re actually going to have to make your state attractive to outsiders and their…money
'Fer sure, though the local 'culture' ain't helping, when even the Feds have continued dumping loads of job training, small business loans and other gubmint aid, into W.VA, only to always be met with the same 'ole, "But my daddy was always a miner, and his daddy was too!"
It’s so unfortunate that we are experiencing a narrative that higher education somehow is bad for the country. I don’t second guess the motives of the WVU president, but if we expand our lens, similar ideas are coming in. I’m concerned that in 10-20 years, we won’t be able to compete with other countries because they respect higher education much more than us, and invest wisely into it, rather than divest. We’re on the cusp of being overtaken, I’m afraid, and we won’t be able to blame anyone but ourselves in time.
We're not on the cusp of being overtaken. I lived overseas for 4 years...we're overtaken. And anyone that's spent any time overseas can see it. It's painfully obvious. Americans are simply in denial of this fact. If one doesn't believe, simply Google the stats for the standing of the US among developed nations elsewhere in the world. We certainly aren't #1, & we haven't been for quite some time.
Higher education in its current form IS bad for the country. Minus a handful of schools, most still operate on a post-WWII model. Higher Ed in the U.S. is bad because administrators and legislators no longer champion diversity.... that's institutional diversity. We were given a gift of colleges and universities of all sizes, religions, secular/non-secular, but a some point many stopped trying to uphold those values/missions for money. The result we have now are cookie-cutter schools with the same curriculum and the same vision for students. Don't believe me? Just watch the university commercials during the football games, they all say the same thing.
Its pretty sad how financiers took the best thing about America- that anyone could get a degree- and they've totally ruined it. We have young women seeking out sugar daddies online or performing sex work so they can pay tuition, and this is not considered shocking. Boomers are apparently fine literally whoring their grandkids out. Speaking to the above posting pointing out the lack of diversity among colleges- there's an economist whose written a book where he says the Ivy Leagues act like a cartel. A cartel, for reference, is a group of business who all agree not to compete with each other on price. That means they can all raise prices arbitrarily, and make a lot of money through coordination and collusion, and not because they've actually done something meaningful. He says other groups of schools have acted as de facto cartels as well, particularly around college sports. I'm inclined to agree. I'm saying this as someone who really had it rough from ages 17-25, drugs and homelessness, and went back to school by enrolling on a lark ar age 29 at my local community college. I ended up transferring to UCSD and getting a degree in Elecreical Engineering, which totally changed the trajectory of life. I love the gifts that my education has given to me. But that's why it makes totally incensed to see how these schools have squandered their funding, and chosen these wild exploitative and extractive arrangements. If schools are closing, IMO, they probably deserve it.
The inequity is appalling. I live in a state with free college. As a retiree, I am happily into my third free semester and working on an Anthro degree. My career, which was driven by my excellent 4-year college, had nothing to do with anything I am studying. I don't understand why this is not universal.
This is a wonderful interview (like Michele Martin's generally are). Anti-intellectualism has a long history in this country, mainly because uniformed voters are easier to manipulate.☹
The classic book on the topic is "Anti-intellectualism in American Life" by Richard Hofstadter. Originally though I think it had more to do with our exalting of "the common man" as distinguished from the aristocracy. The overt attack on citizens capable of critical thinking can be traced back to 1971 and "The Powell Memo" written by Lewis Powell. It's an easy thing to search and learn about and be horrified.
@@nsbd90now here's a weird fact, for many reasons. "Powell was among the 7-2 majority who legalized abortion in the United States in Roe v. Wade (1973). Powell's pro-choice stance on abortion stemmed from an incident during his tenure at his Richmond law firm, when the girlfriend of one of Powell's office staff bled to death from an illegal self-induced abortion." that he voted to approve abortion, another, he felt compassion for another human being and that that compassion, empathy made him vote for all women. he must have known this would help free women from being stuck in the kitchen and the bed room.
The anti-intellectualism of MAGA Republicans, particularly in economically disadvantaged states like West Virginia, is a major threat to the future of our nation. By actively discouraging higher education, they are crippling their own communities and hindering the overall progress of the country. This is not just about individual opportunity; it's about ensuring that America remains a global leader in innovation, technology, and economic prosperity. We need to encourage all Americans to pursue higher education, regardless of their background or political affiliation. Only then can we truly unlock the potential of our nation
Isaac Newton noted decades ago, 'There's a cult of ignorance that runs through America that has always been here. It believes that democracy means their ignorance is equal to knowledge.' That sums up the problem
It’s difficult to persuade a literate person to storm the capital based on the obvious lies of an sociopathic wannabe dictator. That’s the Republican stance.
The ability of today's GOP to self-sabotage not only themselves but their own families far into the future still astounds me. Unforced errors, everytime. It shouldn't be a surprise at this point, but it's so excessively (even arrogantly) illogical I'm left with confusion.
There is truth in what you say. The real problem is that wokeness is demonizing and isolating this Trump group you refer to. They need jobs and fair treatment. DEI is simply a new racism of revenge. And people can see it for what it is. I'm not defending Trump. We need him gone.
Thank God my dad knew that too. In reply also to heronimous below: I had hungry years just like many generations before me. I was amassing skills and knowledge. I am financially better off than any of my traceable ancestors, and have had three terrific careers. It was the education.
It's sad for the children who will grow up with fewer opportunities in life. But if the people of WV don't care about the quality of their educational systems, no one else can care for them. The cycle of brutal rural southern poverty continues.
We had an upper-administration that tried this at our university in Montana. Fortunately, we are a unionized faculty so we were able to stop them and reverse the damaging changes. We have spent the last couple of years building back essential programs the leadership cut, believing cutting leads to prosperity. When we invested in program, enrollment increased. When we cut programs, enrollment decreased.
Paul, I know why my home state of Alabama is red but I don't know why Montana is. It's a brain boggler when people are so unwilling to vote for their own and their families best interests.
Montana is primarily a western conservative libertarian state. We tend to universally oppose authoritarian tactics, regardless of party affiliation. @@marywallace4086
Loved this! Thank you so much, Michelle and guest. I love WVA having spent formative years in SE Ohio. I love the beauty of the state. How could one not? How dare they strip her of her resources?!
This makes me very sad as somebody who studies Appalachian history and is a history major in school or was. This is like the only place where everything has been taken away including the Walmart. It’s kind of ridiculous to not give them the best education possible. Very unfair.
During COVID, Doctors Without Borders went to the Appalachia region and cared for our sick people. We had never been rescued by a non-American medical system before. We were the developed world's charity case. It's unbelievable.
A purely theoretical mathematics department is about as cheap as it gets for university departments, and forms the basis for so many other pursuits. What are they thinking in cutting this? It will take decades to rebuild, when this finally dawns on them.
The Shakespeare class was the MOST important class in full undergraduate education. I would not be the same human being today without it. Thank you Dr. Crider.
Wonderful post. For me, 40 years ago, it was a seminar series on Wagner's Nibelungenlied. A whole new world opened up. And that was Mr Clark. Salut, Allison.
Having taught graduate level architecture for around 35 years at an Ivy League school, I am shocked by the current academic environment in the US. I see the US moving into a very conservative era, where skills that will be respected will be practical applications of science, such as Engineering/ and Liberal Arts will be ignored. It's unfortunate as we need all sorts of thinkers if we want to thrive as a society.
Michael Powell refers to the University of California in the interview. A better example would be the California State University system as it educates far more California residents on a per capita basis than the UC system. For instance, most public school teachers in CA received their degrees from the California State University system. For instance, there are 23 California State University campuses across the state. There are 10 University of California campuses.
The University of California, the California State University, and California Community colleges all over the state offer the most integrated, affordable, and quality upper education system in the US. Yes it used to be even better when it was better provided for with public funds, but compared to what is available elsewhere in the US it stands above all others.
My thesis research adviser moved from WVU to a large Tier 1 research university in Texas and said his move was motivated by West Virginia’s poor education policies. Them making cuts is not surprising and reflective of the hell hole that is west Virginia
A score of centuries ago, the Greeks observed that in an advancing society, old men plant trees knowing they will never sit in the shade of those trees. Does anyone seriously think WV and other states like it are planting trees?
18:08 ---He finally got to the point of President Gee's thinking. He is running the place like it's a hospice facility instead of rehab. Is it sad that the English department can't offer a Shakespeare course? Yes, BUT good thing he transcends the field into theatre, linguistics, and politics. Now is the time to innovate! Make a 6 or 8 week course that connect these fields to Shakespeare.. How fun would it be to read a play, discuss its deeper meaning, connect it to themes of today, and write/perform a modern version of it??
Strong interview but definitely, definitely read the article. Powell weaves a narrative along with a variety of sources including current students and graduates, and thoughts from individuals who have worked with Gee in multiple campuses over decades, that is SO informational and instructional. Yet it moves along at a good clip, reading-wise-in other words, it’s not a “dry academic” read which quite a few people stereotype with education-themed articles.
People talk about society making progress as if this were an inevitable process that always moves in one direction, forward. Progress can be reversed. I think this is an example of that happening.
In this age of AI disruption it seems extremely foolish - similar to “timing the market” - to try and forecast what jobs will be relevant in the future. They should be offering more diverse programs, not fewer, for their “customers”.
Manchin has been the Senator for the state of West Virginia for a long time. WHAT HAS HE EVER DONE TO IMPROVE THE LIVES OF THE PEOPLE OF WEST VIRGINIA? Anything at all?
I think that to understand these cuts we first need to know a lot more of the drop in support for higher education of the citizens of the state. If only 20-30% of the citizens are not confident in the *"need"* for higher education, then it's going to be hard to increase money flowing into public universities. Does that mean that 70% of parents expect that their own kids will be *better* off if they do *not* go to college?
West Virginia seems content to offer degrees in Waitressing, Truck Driving, WalMart Check-Out Clerking, and Shade Tree Auto Mechanics, while also offering "chemistry" courses in Crystal Meth manufacture.
And why is that? First, you still actually need Truck Drivers, and you betray your feelings about these people by dismissing these jobs as valid. Second, the elites in our society skimmed off all the jobs and shipped them to Asia. Not everybody has a 115 IQ and can be doing a white collar job or coding the next app. But you’ll be happy to subsidize them as long as they keep voting Blue, won’t you? Yes, and forgive the debt on every worthless Sociology degree and make the plumbers pay for it!
West Virginia is dying. Coal has been crushed by market forces. Natural gas is so cheap that coal simply can't compete. Nobody is building any new coal fired power plants.
@@mynindo_660 It has been a state dominated by one industry for so long. It is like they don't want to or know how to adapt. Depending on these big energy companies gave them a good lifestyle in the past. But those companies can't offer them anything more without the resources or demand for these resource. No one that wants to get ahead will want to stay there. So this poverty, drug problems and other symptoms of dispair will just perpetuate themsleves.
I spent 6 months in WV in 2006. I've been to "developing" countries that are more developed than WV, educationally. (I've never heard the idiom "soup to nuts" before, so maybe I need some education myself.)
West Virginia in the rearview: Young people wrestle with decision to leave or stay. HUNTINGTON, W.Va. (WCHS) - Since 2013, West Virginia's population has been rapidly declining so much so that when the 2020 Census numbers were released, it was determined that the state saw the sharpest decline in the country.
WV ought to be able to make an arrangement with public universities in neighboring states to take their students at in-state costs for the programs WV dropped. WV would have to make up the difference for out-of-state tuition, but the total cost would be peanuts compared with having a program few people use.
California's population finally started declining, but by 2030, we'll have attracted the best and brightest from all over Trumpland. San Diego is more in demand than any other city in America.
California has always had the most cheapest and most accessible higher education. They are currently in direct competition with Germany for world's #4 economy. Think about it...
I'm an 82 year old Democrat, hate MAGA, had four years worth of college credit but never got a degree, and finally made a living in the Army, ending as a Warrant Officer with a useful-in-civilian-life specialty (Physician Assistant). My university classes were unfulfilling and proved useless. Classes I got in the Army (Vietnamese language training and later medic and Physician Assistant training) were fulfilling and proved useful. Looking back, my university general higher education appears propangadistic. There was nothing resembling critical thinking taught, and I believe critical thinking is the only legitimate aim of general higher education. Technical higher education is different and can be done in less time for less $.
China has been graduating 1.4 million every year for decades into the sciences. US over last ten years has had a drop in college enrollment of 10%. What more needs to be said?
It's important to keep local students in state because most people stay in the state where they went to college. Sending educated folks to other states does not make sense when you're facing shortages of skilled professionals in state. These are false economies that will only harm WV in the long run but Republicans rarely care much about the long term impact of their policies and are focused primarily on "attractive appeals" to voters for re-election. By the time this hits the local economy, they'll be long gone.
More people are leaving the state than entering it, and more residents are dying than being born. Christiadi said getting young people to migrate into the state and creating the jobs to attract them is key. West Virginia ranks third in the nation for the percent of its population over age 65.
If it is decided that the sole purpose of university is to be a trade school, there would be better alternatives such as apprenticeship programs. Universities tend to be expensive to operate. Many people were forced into attending university due to employers demanding employees with academic credentials, even when those credentials are not really necessary to do the job.
Sounds like a case of "self-fulfilling prophecy". See? I told you enrollment would decline. Aren't you glad we got rid of all these expensive majors years ago? (Never mind that enrollment is up in adjacent states).
Interesting topic. No doubt research productivity, grants, faculty & class sizes, graduation rates, student placement, etc. went into the decision. Probably Gee felt that a "big bang" would be easier than smaller reforms because the students, faculty, and alumni would not have time to respond. Hope the WVU community adapts with minimal pain, but it will be hard for many professors in the humanities to find tenured positions.
The decommodification of entire industries like healthcare, education, transportation, energy, banking, criminal justice, and land management is the next step in the evolution of humanity. This would be Market Socialism, a mixed economy, which would make these industries public goods; where the resources and means of production are collectively managed by the people. These public goods, and their quality, should not be accessible based on financial ability. We cannot get there if people aren't willing to criticize capitalism.
I cannot emphasize more strongly how important math is. People think AI will do math. They don’t appreciate that every scientific enterprise and soon even the simple end of the tech industry, including me, are doing math that was pure math just a decade ago (eg. applying Ricci flow). Math is the only language we have for making our questions concrete and interpreting the results. And it is easier to learn than ever before. I’m not going to defend the current inefficient infrastructure of the academy, there are many ways to learn, but interpersonal debate is critical as are lab skills. The arts too make money, more was made making tv shoes than making tvs. And philosophy is critical for countering nonsense and underfunded. PSTEAM
Universities should only offer majors that lead to high paying careers, period. No one wants to waste their time and money on things that have no return on investment.
First sane person on this thread. They not only have a duty to their students to be financially responsible but to tax payers. No one wants to cut degree pathways. But I'd rather they do that than expensive ass gestures that potentially leads nowhere.
I became a lawyer in 1992 and never earned more than $27K. I'm working on films, where I earn as much with my mind as "successful" attorneys. "No return on investment," HELL!
Until they make corporations and the rich pay their fair taxes, this country will continue to decline. Sounds to me that higher education is a misnomer.
With no disrespect intended, but don't the majority of those attending West Virginia colleges hope--or will need--to leave the state once they obtain their degree? Assuming this to be true, is it not irrelevant to consider whether the courses will serve the needs of the state and its citizens, but rather base offerings on the needs snd desires of the clientele, the students.
It reminds me of the Soviet era: if you educate them and give them information, you can’t suppress them as easily and they’ll leave. An ignorant populous is much easier to control. WVA is already in desperate straits due to poverty, healthcare crisis, opioid addiction and exploitation if it’s resources. 😢
If you only teach 5th grade math because the companies you have only need 5th grade math, you will never have companies that need calculus or people who studied calculus elsewhere coming back to work for 5th grade math companies.
The Ultimate Question when it comes to Studying at a University is 1) Is the information that is being given to students relevant to their major 2) is the student getting quality information for their dollar spent 3) is the University providing a benefit to it graduates. How many times have we heard of Students graduating from Universities with thousands of dollars in debt, while the training and information they have learned in college to be "obsolete" and no longer relevant to the jobs that the graduate is now seeking?
You also have to remember WVU is competing for top talent. Why would a professor work at WVU, if they had a job lined up at Harvard? Perhaps what has happened is the cost in tuition is not enough to pull in talented professors to teach the majors that are being cut. The law of supply and demand applies to Universities as well.
What should be looked at in a State like W.V. is strengthening 2 year colleges, and the trades they prepare young people to do. As well, many have gone to 2 year colleges to get their initial courses out of the way then transfer into a University to finish out a degree. This should be promoted. This State needs folks in the trades rather than Shakespeare scholars.
Trades are wonderful for those who choose and enjoy that work, and schools for that exist in WV, but not everyone needs to be a coal miner or plumber. The kids that graduate from high school this year will still be working in 2070+ and need education that will still be relevant (or will allow them to evolve and remain relevant) into the future. WV needs more than trades - that is the role of a public university.
It needs both. But what it doesn't need is more uneducated, unskilled workers fighting for the few jobs out there. Then, in ignorance, blaming Mexicans for them not being able to get a job. We've got enough folks doing that now.
Skilled trade gets you a job. Shakespeare causes you to think why you want that job. As an Art BFA I'll point out we artists usually conceptualize things before the STEM folks do. There's a reason the term Renaissance person has stayed with us for centuries.
For private universities it's understandable. What doesn't have much demand deserves to be cut. But public universities? A nation has no shortage of money when it comes to wars. But never enough money when it comes to education and health which cost a lot less? It's not money. It's politics.
@@jamesbaxter222 Almost all your elite Universities are privately run. Through donations and student fees. That's not valuing education (formally). Privatisation of Education is the beginning of its end.
If the kids graduating with a degree in underwater basket weaving are working at McDonald's then the degree is worthless to everyone but the student loan people. They love it.
do you really think anyone is graduating with a degree in basket weaving? or anything like it? could it be that the united states is so focused on satisfying the corporate world with workers that we're turning into a slave mentality society?
@@jensonee underwater basket weaving. It's much more difficult than regular basket weaving. The higher education system is decidedly NOT a corporate shill, at least not most of them. They are so worried about keeping their own hustle solvent they could care less about industry unless that industry is somehow siphoning dollars into their bottom line. BTW, "underwater basket weaving" is a tongue in cheek way of referring to the 30-50% of the degree course that has nothing to do with the degree... it's just for the administration and student loan industry to their piece of your pie and to get the student indebted, hungry, and therefore compliant and willing to take abuse before they ever earn a dollar.
@@intheshell35ify part of what you wrote is true. here in oregon the university of oregon is supposed to be a public school but the state only contributes about 8 to 10% to UO's budget. over 50% is from student tuition. the rest from rich donors who, as all the rich do, control where their money goes. business people want business students. and they love sports. i understand the reference for basket weaving but it's BS. when my son tells me about a very bright student getting their degree and working at a fast foods place. i remind him, he doesn't want to go there. so yeah, there are majors that lead to the poor house. the thing for people who have degrees that go nowhere, say a history degree, businesses will still hire them because they've learned how to learn. i worked at nasa in mt view on the wide area network, the internet, for sterling software. a new technology that needed bright people to design it. none of us had degrees in engineering networks.
I know nothing about this and I am nobody but I am guessing the president is choosing a niche to be really good at and focusing on that while letting other things go. This is strategic marketing 101. When markets get competitive choose a niche (or niches in this case) that you can focus on, be the best or close to it and so attract customers ( or students in this case)
We are spending too much on higher ed 1) Look at Germany. It is an industrial powerhouse. They got there through prioritizing high value vocational skills. That does not need a college degree 2) Look at our higher ed debt levels. That shows the education is not yielding a net benefit for a lot of people 3) Look at all those jobs that don't need a college degree, requiring a college degree. That shows we have an oversupply 4) Look at medical school requiring a bachelors degree apply. Your history degree is not making you a better doctor (or if it is, it's not making it 200,000 dollars and 4 years better) We need everyone to have tertiary education. That does not mean it should be college. It costs a lot & it takes several years. That kind of investment needs to pay dividends to society and the individual
Probably the smartest thing they ever did, and the rest of the US needs to follow their lead. We need to cut that university budget and put that money to use elsewhere, building public housing for Central Americans and South Americans who will be able to fill those jobs at a later date after we get them some basic English and a teaching cert.
West Virginia is in an austerity mode. Those things that can be cut, will be. WV is a poor and aging state that is losing population. Therefore, they have to concentrate on the "basics." Post secondary education across the United States is slowly approaching a "crisis mode" with fewer students applying because of relevance, and most of all, affordability.
Usually it's the Education Departments that produce math teachers, not the math departments. Math departments often help produce teachers, but largely just contributing "breadth", i.e. an exposure to a bunch of mathematical topics, a little beyond what people see in primary school.
The spin away from traditional 4 year broad programs comes from the experience of young people in the marketplace such a programmers who are valuable and well paid without a college credential. Further with the mi imum 4 year cost of $100 k, the idea of wasting time and money in required lower division breadth courses to provide more students in less economically profitable fields needs a rethink. Indeed perhaps 2.5 years of more focused upper division courses is a more cost effective standard. If costs need to be reduced or contained something of lower priority needs to be cut. Useless administrators first. Then the lower priority programs.
You're worried about the economy and downsizing Math departments? Hm... no wonder kids today can't count without a machine. How do they expect to get to upper division physics and engineering without trig or calculus? You need at least basic trigonometry to do physics.
It always amazes me that the very people claiming responsibility to teach math, science, logic, reason and language often claim the inability to measure the direct and indirect benefits of dollars spent on education?
Its time for higher ed to take it to the pupils 20 years ago when the technology presented itself. No other industry would incorporate and consolidate in the times of such access to innovation thats achieved and cost effective. Not to mention 70 years its been granted deterministic simplicity and unification pushing its infinite sums of complexity down upon many different disciplines and lower level public education designed to filter out and recruit under the Prussian school reform models if the 80s,90s etc etc. They havnt supported unification and simplicity where it matters with mechanics and technicians who rationalize the systems they work with very differently, the terminologies of these ben Franklin systems that once was served now work independently. So higher ed bailed on its greatest service
I think it is a very good thing for the economy that students are not adding to the $1.73 trillion student loan debt as fast as a few years ago. The degree a graduate gets is worth very little. A 1 year trade school costs less,pays off sooner and helps the economy.
It’s a purely ideological movement to destroy our ability to think critically. Including our ability to understand that our federal government issues our national currency that everyone else relies upon. Including state & local governments, businesses, banks, individuals, and households. So, the first move was to cut federal dollars going to our universities & colleges. Second move was to install state governments who refuse federal educational grants. Because either really don’t understand that our national currency comes from our federal government Or they present not to in order to destroy state & local budgets
High Education needs to be for academics that will have an ROI for the student receiving the degree. Eliminate all garbage majors like Gender Studies(TM) and promote STEM instead.
Wealthy international students will always want to come to US to study as they do not have enough spaces in their state universities esp when they have to take exams to get into their universities and there are only certain number of places. Tons of undergraduate int'l students want to perfect their English as well as get internships in US...they will also provide workers, etc. Check the int'l undergraduate admissions at each school if you doubt this.
no, Gen Z is at average if you rely on the stats of individuals born after 1995 and before 2013. Give it a few more years to see them become more prime aged workers
@@1106gary don't know specifically about WV schools...for international students. But Wisconsin, Iowa, IL, MI, MN....all not weather friendly schools have huge populations of international students seeking admission to US schools...both undergrad and grad admissions. Depending on the study major....usually students from India and China want comp science and engineering. Students from China have much better test scores in Math...if schools are still requiring test scores as a method of admission. Some students whose TOEFL scores are not high enough will seek the English as second/foreign language programs first and then apply for admission elsewhere. Students on F-1 /J-1 student visas have an option to spend a year at a job for occupational training. (They do need to apply through their school for this as well as apply to get the internship....visa regulations say they either have to be enrolled in school or practical/occupational training to be legally in country.) If WV is gutting their public universities, they could offer the facilities to a Native tribe in the area to start a school...especially if the university is a land grant one. Land grant means the state/fed offered land in late 1800s/early 1900s to have a public university. The land did not have to be purchased....huge advantage to the institutions who served all white male students of the time. Tribal colleges and historically black universities (hbus) had to purchase the land for their colleges at a huge expense. They are not considered public universities as don't receive public funds. Anybody can apply to either group of universities though. Tribal colleges are set up more like community colleges as many of their students have families, jobs, in addition to studies but they are trying to add advanced degree options (besides an associates degree)....many colleges offer Bachelors degrees. If tribal colleges and hbus (or combine the two entities to make a jointly run operation) had the opportunity to get the facilities, teachers, students, etc...nobody would jobs, students currently enrolled could continue to get their degree, the tribal colleges and hbus could incorporate their particular curricula that each of their schools have ...this would provide a huge leg up for those tribal nations in that area who do not have a college. African Americans students could have another option for a historically black college (or at least 'of color'). It will never happen though...no public largely white state university will give the land and facilities/equipment, etc to a historically disadvantaged minority race (any non-white race). This is part of the historical systemization of racism in the US that has occurred for centuries to keep the minority opportunities to a minimum. Look it up. If you don't know it happened, you can never recognize when it's happening again nor know how to change it in the future. If we are entering the 15+ yr shortage of workers then we should be opening up every border portal we have and get work permits for all since that is a population of people who WANT and are ready, capable, and able to work. If the US K-12 and beyond educational system put a greater emphasis on learning foreign languages and not allowed the US population to become 'entitled' in their thinking that the business language of the world is English and so I don't need to learn a language, everybody has to learn English to cater to my needs...(through the years of 1960s and beyond), there might be more US citizens who actually speak other languages to help accommodate the new immigrants in their jobs while they try to learn English. It is a very long process of learning to speak/write a language....just ask the thousands of Americans who are in the process of immigrating to Portugal, France, Spain, Germany, Greece, Mexico, Italy,Thailand, Japan and a variety of other countries. Embassies (VFS) in US should be publishing on a regular basis how many residence visas they are processing every year. People would see just how many US citizens are leaving the country for greener pastures. Also ask those folks how difficult it is for them to learn the language of their new country. Nobody would be able to do a job where they had to interact with others...if they went there to work a non-remote job. They would need people on the job speaking English to give them training and direction. Many factories and farms in the US who NEED Spanish speaking labor have employed English/Spanish speakers (or sent their English only speaking workers to learn Spanish) so there are ppl who can speak both languages at all levels of the company....so workers can advance through the ranks and complete language fluency will not hold them back. With the immigration flow of 2023, all nationalities seem to represented so just speaking Spanish is not enough. Ukraine, Russian, French, etc...
I can't see how you expect to understand the intricacies of curriculum design at the university level by asking the president some questions. And you conclusions reflect this. Like "there are not enough math teachers" versus not enough teachers qualified in math who are willing to work in the public schools. Maybe producing more of them will have no effect on the number who do not quit the profession in the first three years (70% last time I checked. Wasted 5 years of school). There is a lot going on. I hope they cut every degree program that ends in "Studies". We need new smart well educated young people before GenZ gets us all killed!
Ending GRADUATE (not undergraduate) programs in math leads to fewer math professors at the college level but not fewer math tech era t the K-12 level. I’m no supporting this change, just trying to explain how the cut doesn’t really change the pipeline for K-2 teachers.
Right now they are basically job training centers, not centers of education imbuing students with the critical thinking skills and the broad base of knowledge provided by The Liberal Arts & Humanities which used to be the norm and the ideal.
@@nsbd90now The problem with the education system is that it revolves around a classroom and the privilege to pay for the best that has to offer. The future of education will be 100 percent free and consist of travel and hands on experience. What we have today is an archaic system of prepping the youth for industrial jobs that no longer exist. School until now has always been about preparing people for the workforce. That workforce is now becoming obsolete.
@@shutinalley I find it so bizarre that our schools are funded by district, rather than state-wide or country-wide. Because of this, rich areas have wonderful schools, poor areas do not.
Almost 30 years ago, I was in the military and my son was in kindergarten in WV. He came home and said a teacher had taken his book away because he was getting the children's attention by reading to them. I went down to talk, and never saw the teacher. The Principal threatened to call CPS on me for "forcing my son to learn to read unnaturally early", and she suggested that I find another place for him or else. I had NO time nor resources to deal with this handsome Southern lady with her beehive hairdo and her elegant manners, so I put him in day care until 1st grade. His classmates may now be the people you address in this video. I was trained to fight terrorists and foreign enemies; the domestic ones have me totally buffaloed.
"I was trained to fight terrorists and foreign enemies [...]"
This.
Seeing this line is a phrase used more and more.
WTF?! “...forcing your son to read ‘unnaturally’ early?” Wow!
This is about a University not kindergarten.
@@doncheechako8084 I'm sorry the post was too long to read all the way through comfortably. If you are from WV, I do understand.
There's no way this is true.
West VA knows that educated kids will leave the state. The downward spiral continues.
It took a while after I left Wyoming myself to realize that it was inevitable. Wyoming or West Virginia is a good place to be from. Now did I Ieave after HS? An AA? BS/BA? It really depends on how much the state wants to invest in higher education.
How else would they procreate.
There's Coal miners in West Virginia. Will they enroll in major universities? Community Colleges would be better suit this population and provide direction to major universities outside the state. Miners can switch to mineral mining for the electrification of our energy technologies. New industries new educations.
If education is limited to something assumed to be all that miners need, then all you get is miners. Send them out of state for other degrees, and they will stay out of state The mine managers, the geologist, medical doctors, nurses etc. etc. that you need to have a health, growing community will have to come from outside the state, if you can lure them in. It is a loosing plan.@@robertlee8805
@@robertlee8805 Mountaintop removal (the final stage of mining) doesn't actually employ a lot of people. And WV doesn't have the fancy minerals for fancy technologies (which are mostly powered with natural gas generated electricity).
Education should not be a business. It is a public good, maybe the most salient example. There is so much money in this economy and it has been sequestered and hoarded by a tiny percentage of the population. If the US really cared about the future wealth redistribution would be a no-brainer.
Tax the rich.
Amen. Absolutely horrifying to hear the college refer to students as "customers." This is unfettered consumer capitalism at its worst.
The internet is a taxpayer-funded invention from public universities.
why? It should be a business that promises return on investment. You pay us, we teach you something of value (like STEM), that you can use later to get a better paying job. Gender studies, diversity studies and liberal arts should be left for people that are financially secure and can afford to study something completely useless. And let natural selection sort out who is fit for college - entry exams.
@johnwalczak9202 you do realize there's this thing called soft power that has huge economic and social benefits.
If WVU wanted to make cuts it should have been to administrator’s salaries. There are nearly 100 people that make more than $200K a year and they are almost all admin and coaches. Gordon Gee, who received two votes of no confidence, still has a job and he’s making $800K a year. This is disgusting. That’s twice what the president of the USA makes. I worked at WVU and I can tell you that a whole lot of these do-nothing admin do very little to warrant the outrageous salaries they draw.
This is one of the "best kept" secrets when it comes to colleges and universities in America. Many administrators make astronomical salaries, while overcharging students, denying qualified professors tenure, underpaying adjunct professors, and graduate assistants, while skimming off the top of a top heavy budget.
University of Iowa is the same. They pay the football coach as much as 30 lecturers with PhDs. This isn't even a university anymore. It's a football team with a side hustle in tertiary education.
$22000/year is among lowest State universities? I paid $120/semester at The University of Michigan, then $72/quarter at Univ. of Calif-Berkeley. 80% of faculty in US colleges are "adjunct" meaning no tenure, no pension, no insurance. It is not faculty salaries, but administrators and campus building that cost the State budget, just as with workers and executives in business.
$120 per semester?! When did you graduate? 1967?
Don’t forget that the football coach needs a real big salary.
@@waltertoki1for the head coach, his annual compensation started at $7.05 million in 2022 and goes up steadily to $7.63 million in 2026
I've been teaching as an adjunct at a local private university part time for the last 5 years.
At this point I've decided not to teach anymore. I've done the calculation on how much revenue the university is receiving from students, and for a class of 30 x3 credits, they're bringing in ~150k.
My salary for 15 classes is only 2,300. I have to design and deliver over 22 hours of material, along with assignments, rubric, grading, and addressing students' individual concerns.
I'm basically creating and delivering the actual thing that the students are paying for and receiving only ~1.5% of the cost.
I looked up t-shirt manufacturing, and although it's a very different thing, ~6% of the final cost goes towards raw material, and ~14% goes to labor & design.
People really should be considering how much of the actual cost of education is going to the people who are tasked with designing and delivering it.
Part of this trend is due to employers requiring university degrees even for jobs that don't need that level of education. As the demand for more high level education has increased over the years, the cost of it has increased proportionately.
Lack of education has consequences.
Very true, I will quote a former ivory league president of Princeton University Woodrow Wilson, of something we seem to have lost in our modern world. I consider a intimate knowledge of the Bible a indispensable qualification of a well-educated man. Lastly the next time you drive your car thank working class people for building it. When you use heat at night a west virginia coal miner may have caused you to have heat. Some thoughts to ponder.
So you’re a business looking to invest somewhere where labor costs are low. Problem is, your company is a knowledge industry business, and so you’re going to have to convince your PhDs, lawyers, software, engineers, doctors, pharmacists, etc, to move to the new state. What do you do? You probably don’t move to the state that is beginning the process of shutting down their own state university. You don’t move to Iowa (where I live) because abortion is being made illegal. And then over time, this just gets exponentially worse. Governors in red states are absolutely incompetent in terms of attracting business, all they can do is cut taxes, but at some point you’re actually going to have to make your state attractive to outsiders and their…money
And so-called Red states also had higher covid death rates than so-called Blue states due to this dumbing down.
We are unfortunately living through the prequel to Idiocracy.
You're being too generous.
which is exactly what the GOP and Trump are setting out to do!
We have always been a plutocracy. "All men are created equal" wink wink
'Fer sure, though the local 'culture' ain't helping, when even the Feds have continued dumping loads of job training, small business loans and other gubmint aid, into W.VA, only to always be met with the same 'ole, "But my daddy was always a miner, and his daddy was too!"
It’s so unfortunate that we are experiencing a narrative that higher education somehow is bad for the country. I don’t second guess the motives of the WVU president, but if we expand our lens, similar ideas are coming in. I’m concerned that in 10-20 years, we won’t be able to compete with other countries because they respect higher education much more than us, and invest wisely into it, rather than divest. We’re on the cusp of being overtaken, I’m afraid, and we won’t be able to blame anyone but ourselves in time.
We're not on the cusp of being overtaken. I lived overseas for 4 years...we're overtaken. And anyone that's spent any time overseas can see it. It's painfully obvious. Americans are simply in denial of this fact. If one doesn't believe, simply Google the stats for the standing of the US among developed nations elsewhere in the world. We certainly aren't #1, & we haven't been for quite some time.
Higher education in its current form IS bad for the country. Minus a handful of schools, most still operate on a post-WWII model. Higher Ed in the U.S. is bad because administrators and legislators no longer champion diversity.... that's institutional diversity.
We were given a gift of colleges and universities of all sizes, religions, secular/non-secular, but a some point many stopped trying to uphold those values/missions for money. The result we have now are cookie-cutter schools with the same curriculum and the same vision for students. Don't believe me? Just watch the university commercials during the football games, they all say the same thing.
Its pretty sad how financiers took the best thing about America- that anyone could get a degree- and they've totally ruined it. We have young women seeking out sugar daddies online or performing sex work so they can pay tuition, and this is not considered shocking. Boomers are apparently fine literally whoring their grandkids out.
Speaking to the above posting pointing out the lack of diversity among colleges- there's an economist whose written a book where he says the Ivy Leagues act like a cartel. A cartel, for reference, is a group of business who all agree not to compete with each other on price. That means they can all raise prices arbitrarily, and make a lot of money through coordination and collusion, and not because they've actually done something meaningful. He says other groups of schools have acted as de facto cartels as well, particularly around college sports. I'm inclined to agree.
I'm saying this as someone who really had it rough from ages 17-25, drugs and homelessness, and went back to school by enrolling on a lark ar age 29 at my local community college. I ended up transferring to UCSD and getting a degree in Elecreical Engineering, which totally changed the trajectory of life. I love the gifts that my education has given to me.
But that's why it makes totally incensed to see how these schools have squandered their funding, and chosen these wild exploitative and extractive arrangements. If schools are closing, IMO, they probably deserve it.
The inequity is appalling. I live in a state with free college. As a retiree, I am happily into my third free semester and working on an Anthro degree. My career, which was driven by my excellent 4-year college, had nothing to do with anything I am studying. I don't understand why this is not universal.
We are falling behind as it is now.
This is a wonderful interview (like Michele Martin's generally are). Anti-intellectualism has a long history in this country, mainly because uniformed voters are easier to manipulate.☹
The classic book on the topic is "Anti-intellectualism in American Life" by Richard Hofstadter. Originally though I think it had more to do with our exalting of "the common man" as distinguished from the aristocracy. The overt attack on citizens capable of critical thinking can be traced back to 1971 and "The Powell Memo" written by Lewis Powell. It's an easy thing to search and learn about and be horrified.
@@nsbd90now here's a weird fact, for many reasons. "Powell was among the 7-2 majority who legalized abortion in the United States in Roe v. Wade (1973). Powell's pro-choice stance on abortion stemmed from an incident during his tenure at his Richmond law firm, when the girlfriend of one of Powell's office staff bled to death from an illegal self-induced abortion." that he voted to approve abortion, another, he felt compassion for another human being and that that compassion, empathy made him vote for all women. he must have known this would help free women from being stuck in the kitchen and the bed room.
@@jensonee Woah! I didn't know that!
@@nsbd90now a case in point showing how different today's repubs are from a few decades ago. i guess, maga/cultists not repubs/corporate.
The anti-intellectualism of MAGA Republicans, particularly in economically disadvantaged states like West Virginia, is a major threat to the future of our nation. By actively discouraging higher education, they are crippling their own communities and hindering the overall progress of the country. This is not just about individual opportunity; it's about ensuring that America remains a global leader in innovation, technology, and economic prosperity. We need to encourage all Americans to pursue higher education, regardless of their background or political affiliation. Only then can we truly unlock the potential of our nation
Isaac Newton noted decades ago, 'There's a cult of ignorance that runs through America that has always been here. It believes that democracy means their ignorance is equal to knowledge.' That sums up the problem
It’s difficult to persuade a literate person to storm the capital based on the obvious lies of an sociopathic wannabe dictator.
That’s the Republican stance.
The ability of today's GOP to self-sabotage not only themselves but their own families far into the future still astounds me. Unforced errors, everytime. It shouldn't be a surprise at this point, but it's so excessively (even arrogantly) illogical I'm left with confusion.
There is truth in what you say. The real problem is that wokeness is demonizing and isolating this Trump group you refer to. They need jobs and fair treatment. DEI is simply a new racism of revenge. And people can see it for what it is. I'm not defending Trump. We need him gone.
Rubbish
If you want your kids to be good citizens and make an intelligent choice of a specialty, start by making sure they get a good liberal arts education.
That's all well and good, but young people need immediate, well paid employment after graduation, not in 20 - 30 years.
Thank God my dad knew that too. In reply also to heronimous below: I had hungry years just like many generations before me. I was amassing skills and knowledge. I am financially better off than any of my traceable ancestors, and have had three terrific careers. It was the education.
😂 What a complete joke. There are no liberals left in the Academy. They are straight up Leftists Dictators with insane beliefs.
It's sad for the children who will grow up with fewer opportunities in life. But if the people of WV don't care about the quality of their educational systems, no one else can care for them. The cycle of brutal rural southern poverty continues.
I'm sure glad that there isn't Welfare anymore. That will be good for the anti-education folks.
😂 You know what shipped all of their jobs away? The elite class that wanted a few more dollars through outsourcing their jobs. They see you.
Brain drain in WV
And there's not much to drain to begin with.
Maybe I am reading the wrong information, but I never see WV doing anything to help itself. So many states seem to go against there own interests.
@@stananderson4524 You're not. It's the leaders, Republicans, who want to keep it that way so they can stay in power.
@Bebtelovimab The Saudi's would never buy a state of white, evangelical racists. Russia is a better prospect.
We had an upper-administration that tried this at our university in Montana. Fortunately, we are a unionized faculty so we were able to stop them and reverse the damaging changes. We have spent the last couple of years building back essential programs the leadership cut, believing cutting leads to prosperity. When we invested in program, enrollment increased. When we cut programs, enrollment decreased.
Paul, I know why my home state of Alabama is red but I don't know why Montana is. It's a brain boggler when people are so unwilling to vote for their own and their families best interests.
Montana is primarily a western conservative libertarian state. We tend to universally oppose authoritarian tactics, regardless of party affiliation. @@marywallace4086
As someone with a STEM degree from WV I left as soon as I got the first hob. There is nothing there at all.
Linguistics changed everything for me. Attended a land grant college, all I did was teach high school students but they noticed.
Loved this! Thank you so much, Michelle and guest. I love WVA having spent formative years in SE Ohio. I love the beauty of the state. How could one not? How dare they strip her of her resources?!
Just as they strip mine WV ...
This makes me very sad as somebody who studies Appalachian history and is a history major in school or was. This is like the only place where everything has been taken away including the Walmart. It’s kind of ridiculous to not give them the best education possible. Very unfair.
There are TWO Walmarts in Morgantown, but ok.
During COVID, Doctors Without Borders went to the Appalachia region and cared for our sick people. We had never been rescued by a non-American medical system before. We were the developed world's charity case. It's unbelievable.
A purely theoretical mathematics department is about as cheap as it gets for university departments, and forms the basis for so many other pursuits. What are they thinking in cutting this? It will take decades to rebuild, when this finally dawns on them.
Except they don’t bring in research grants. And that’s all upper admin cares about.
The Shakespeare class was the MOST important class in full undergraduate education. I would not be the same human being today without it. Thank you Dr. Crider.
Wonderful post. For me, 40 years ago, it was a seminar series on Wagner's Nibelungenlied. A whole new world opened up. And that was Mr Clark. Salut, Allison.
Thank you, Dr.Yellen (Indiana Univeristy '66) for your passionate love of Shakespeare and influenced me to love Shakespeare, too.
I attended college for 6.5 years. I took whatever classes I wanted. I never received a diploma, but I got an amazing education!!!
West Virginia, living up(?) to its' reputation.
Stepping boldly into the 18th century.
Brilliant move, simply brilliant!
Having taught graduate level architecture for around 35 years at an Ivy League school, I am shocked by the current academic environment in the US. I see the US moving into a very conservative era, where skills that will be respected will be practical applications of science, such as Engineering/ and Liberal Arts will be ignored. It's unfortunate as we need all sorts of thinkers if we want to thrive as a society.
WV is one of the poorest states and is clearly intent on staying that way.
Michael Powell refers to the University of California in the interview. A better example would be the California State University system as it educates far more California residents on a per capita basis than the UC system. For instance, most public school teachers in CA received their degrees from the California State University system. For instance, there are 23 California State University campuses across the state. There are 10 University of California campuses.
The University of California, the California State University, and California Community colleges all over the state offer the most integrated, affordable, and quality upper education system in the US. Yes it used to be even better when it was better provided for with public funds, but compared to what is available elsewhere in the US it stands above all others.
My thesis research adviser moved from WVU to a large Tier 1 research university in Texas and said his move was motivated by West Virginia’s poor education policies. Them making cuts is not surprising and reflective of the hell hole that is west Virginia
Texas isn't much better. Your advisor should pick a state that isn't run by knuckle-draggers and cave-dwellers.
A score of centuries ago, the Greeks observed that in an advancing society, old men plant trees knowing they will never sit in the shade of those trees.
Does anyone seriously think WV and other states like it are planting trees?
18:08 ---He finally got to the point of President Gee's thinking. He is running the place like it's a hospice facility instead of rehab.
Is it sad that the English department can't offer a Shakespeare course? Yes, BUT good thing he transcends the field into theatre, linguistics, and politics. Now is the time to innovate! Make a 6 or 8 week course that connect these fields to Shakespeare.. How fun would it be to read a play, discuss its deeper meaning, connect it to themes of today, and write/perform a modern version of it??
Strong interview but definitely, definitely read the article. Powell weaves a narrative along with a variety of sources including current students and graduates, and thoughts from individuals who have worked with Gee in multiple campuses over decades, that is SO informational and instructional. Yet it moves along at a good clip, reading-wise-in other words, it’s not a “dry academic” read which quite a few people stereotype with education-themed articles.
Only one problem, none of it is true.
People talk about society making progress as if this were an inevitable process that always moves in one direction, forward. Progress can be reversed. I think this is an example of that happening.
Indeed. See Prof Jared Diamond’s book “Collapse: How Societies Choose To Fail Or Succeed.”
Gee was a disaster at university of Colorado. We were so lucky he left to make more $$$ somewhere else.
In this age of AI disruption it seems extremely foolish - similar to “timing the market” - to try and forecast what jobs will be relevant in the future. They should be offering more diverse programs, not fewer, for their “customers”.
Why wasn't the financial status of WVU discussed?
Manchin has been the Senator for the state of West Virginia for a long time. WHAT HAS HE EVER DONE TO IMPROVE THE LIVES OF THE PEOPLE OF WEST VIRGINIA? Anything at all?
He has open contempt for his constituents. Sadly the next GQP Senator will
be even worse.
How about Kentucky? They have the one of the most powerful men in Washington representing them, and what do they have to show for it. Poverty.
I think that to understand these cuts we first need to know a lot more of the drop in support for higher education of the citizens of the state. If only 20-30% of the citizens are not confident in the *"need"* for higher education, then it's going to be hard to increase money flowing into public universities. Does that mean that 70% of parents expect that their own kids will be *better* off if they do *not* go to college?
West Virginia seems content to offer degrees in Waitressing, Truck Driving, WalMart Check-Out Clerking, and Shade Tree Auto Mechanics, while also offering "chemistry" courses in Crystal Meth manufacture.
And why is that? First, you still actually need Truck Drivers, and you betray your feelings about these people by dismissing these jobs as valid. Second, the elites in our society skimmed off all the jobs and shipped them to Asia. Not everybody has a 115 IQ and can be doing a white collar job or coding the next app. But you’ll be happy to subsidize them as long as they keep voting Blue, won’t you? Yes, and forgive the debt on every worthless Sociology degree and make the plumbers pay for it!
So why isn't WV encouraging more diversity in corporations to corporate intrest to move their facilities to WV.
Bc the energy industry that dominates the state doesn't want competition from other industries for political influence or to drive up labor costs
West Virginia is dying. Coal has been crushed by market forces. Natural gas is so cheap that coal simply can't compete. Nobody is building any new coal fired power plants.
@@mynindo_660 It has been a state dominated by one industry for so long. It is like they don't want to or know how to adapt. Depending on these big energy companies gave them a good lifestyle in the past. But those companies can't offer them anything more without the resources or demand for these resource. No one that wants to get ahead will want to stay there. So this poverty, drug problems and other symptoms of dispair will just perpetuate themsleves.
Because the governor gave all the money in the budget to Marshall University, his alma mater, for a football stadium. 😃
What no Shakespeare 😆! But seriously this is very sad. West Virginia doesn’t have a lot of higher education options to begin with.
I spent 6 months in WV in 2006. I've been to "developing" countries that are more developed than WV, educationally. (I've never heard the idiom "soup to nuts" before, so maybe I need some education myself.)
Yes, you're a much rounded person to be aware of lower culture idioms, and admitting you need to learn prevented me to say mean things to you. :)
West Virginia in the rearview: Young people wrestle with decision to leave or stay. HUNTINGTON, W.Va. (WCHS) - Since 2013, West Virginia's population has been rapidly declining so much so that when the 2020 Census numbers were released, it was determined that the state saw the sharpest decline in the country.
WV ought to be able to make an arrangement with public universities in neighboring states to take their students at in-state costs for the programs WV dropped. WV would have to make up the difference for out-of-state tuition, but the total cost would be peanuts compared with having a program few people use.
California's population finally started declining, but by 2030, we'll have attracted the best and brightest from all over Trumpland. San Diego is more in demand than any other city in America.
California has always had the most cheapest and most accessible higher education. They are currently in direct competition with Germany for world's #4 economy. Think about it...
You ask Rep. Manchin to help. He’s fed off of WV his whole life.
I'm an 82 year old Democrat, hate MAGA, had four years worth of college credit but never got a degree, and finally made a living in the Army, ending as a Warrant Officer with a useful-in-civilian-life specialty (Physician Assistant). My university classes were unfulfilling and proved useless. Classes I got in the Army (Vietnamese language training and later medic and Physician Assistant training) were fulfilling and proved useful. Looking back, my university general higher education appears propangadistic. There was nothing resembling critical thinking taught, and I believe critical thinking is the only legitimate aim of general higher education. Technical higher education is different and can be done in less time for less $.
China has been graduating 1.4 million every year for decades into the sciences. US over last ten years has had a drop in college enrollment of 10%. What more needs to be said?
It's important to keep local students in state because most people stay in the state where they went to college. Sending educated folks to other states does not make sense when you're facing shortages of skilled professionals in state. These are false economies that will only harm WV in the long run but Republicans rarely care much about the long term impact of their policies and are focused primarily on "attractive appeals" to voters for re-election. By the time this hits the local economy, they'll be long gone.
More people are leaving the state than entering it, and more residents are dying than being born. Christiadi said getting young people to migrate into the state and creating the jobs to attract them is key. West Virginia ranks third in the nation for the percent of its population over age 65.
Cutting modern language programs is interesting since these programs are overwhelmingly followed by women, particularly at undergraduate level.
Florida is doing the same. The MAGA mindset and motto is "Keep 'em stupid and angry"
If it is decided that the sole purpose of university is to be a trade school, there would be better alternatives such as apprenticeship programs. Universities tend to be expensive to operate. Many people were forced into attending university due to employers demanding employees with academic credentials, even when those credentials are not really necessary to do the job.
It isn't the employee's place to set the requirements for a position it is the employers regardless how you feel about it.
Sounds like a case of "self-fulfilling prophecy". See? I told you enrollment would decline. Aren't you glad we got rid of all these expensive majors years ago? (Never mind that enrollment is up in adjacent states).
Interesting that every single university/college cutting programs goes after languages, math, and physics...
This woman is brilliant! This interview was fascinating.
The WV president is right about a lot of the problems in universities today. Way too many degrees with no hope of a job.
Interesting topic. No doubt research productivity, grants, faculty & class sizes, graduation rates, student placement, etc. went into the decision. Probably Gee felt that a "big bang" would be easier than smaller reforms because the students, faculty, and alumni would not have time to respond. Hope the WVU community adapts with minimal pain, but it will be hard for many professors in the humanities to find tenured positions.
Instead of giving billons to Israel, USA government can support public colleges to better their own country for future.
It’s like it’s not bad enough that WV is where it is right now.
West Virginia is a "working class state" because everyone with an education wants to leave, and opportunities abound along the East Coast.
WV don't need no edchumacashun. And it votes that way.
The decommodification of entire industries like healthcare, education, transportation, energy, banking, criminal justice, and land management is the next step in the evolution of humanity. This would be Market Socialism, a mixed economy, which would make these industries public goods; where the resources and means of production are collectively managed by the people. These public goods, and their quality, should not be accessible based on financial ability. We cannot get there if people aren't willing to criticize capitalism.
I cannot emphasize more strongly how important math is. People think AI will do math. They don’t appreciate that every scientific enterprise and soon even the simple end of the tech industry,
including me, are doing math that was pure math just a decade ago (eg.
applying Ricci flow). Math is the only language we have for making our questions concrete and interpreting the results. And it is easier to learn than ever before. I’m not going to defend the current inefficient infrastructure of the academy, there are many ways to learn, but interpersonal debate is critical as are lab skills. The arts too make money, more was made making tv shoes than making tvs. And philosophy is critical for countering nonsense and underfunded. PSTEAM
Universities should only offer majors that lead to high paying careers, period. No one wants to waste their time and money on things that have no return on investment.
First sane person on this thread. They not only have a duty to their students to be financially responsible but to tax payers. No one wants to cut degree pathways. But I'd rather they do that than expensive ass gestures that potentially leads nowhere.
I became a lawyer in 1992 and never earned more than $27K. I'm working on films, where I earn as much with my mind as "successful" attorneys. "No return on investment," HELL!
Until they make corporations and the rich pay their fair taxes, this country will continue to decline. Sounds to me that higher education is a misnomer.
With no disrespect intended, but don't the majority of those attending West Virginia colleges hope--or will need--to leave the state once they obtain their degree? Assuming this to be true, is it not irrelevant to consider whether the courses will serve the needs of the state and its citizens, but rather base offerings on the needs snd desires of the clientele, the students.
It reminds me of the Soviet era: if you educate them and give them information, you can’t suppress them as easily and they’ll leave. An ignorant populous is much easier to control. WVA is already in desperate straits due to poverty, healthcare crisis, opioid addiction and exploitation if it’s resources. 😢
If you only teach 5th grade math because the companies you have only need 5th grade math, you will never have companies that need calculus or people who studied calculus elsewhere coming back to work for 5th grade math companies.
The Ultimate Question when it comes to Studying at a University is
1) Is the information that is being given to students relevant to their major
2) is the student getting quality information for their dollar spent
3) is the University providing a benefit to it graduates.
How many times have we heard of Students graduating from Universities with thousands of dollars in debt, while the training and information they have learned in college to be "obsolete" and no longer relevant to the jobs that the graduate is now seeking?
You also have to remember WVU is competing for top talent. Why would a professor work at WVU, if they had a job lined up at Harvard?
Perhaps what has happened is the cost in tuition is not enough to pull in talented professors to teach the majors that are being cut. The law of supply and demand applies to Universities as well.
What should be looked at in a State like W.V. is strengthening 2 year colleges, and the trades they prepare young people to do. As well, many have gone to 2 year colleges to get their initial courses out of the way then transfer into a University to finish out a degree. This should be promoted. This State needs folks in the trades rather than Shakespeare scholars.
Trades are wonderful for those who choose and enjoy that work, and schools for that exist in WV, but not everyone needs to be a coal miner or plumber. The kids that graduate from high school this year will still be working in 2070+ and need education that will still be relevant (or will allow them to evolve and remain relevant) into the future. WV needs more than trades - that is the role of a public university.
It needs both. But what it doesn't need is more uneducated, unskilled workers fighting for the few jobs out there. Then, in ignorance, blaming Mexicans for them not being able to get a job. We've got enough folks doing that now.
Educated states tend to have stronger economies.
It is promoted. There's a huge push, with funding, for community colleges, etc. in WV.
Skilled trade gets you a job. Shakespeare causes you to think why you want that job. As an Art BFA I'll point out we artists usually conceptualize things before the STEM folks do. There's a reason the term Renaissance person has stayed with us for centuries.
For private universities it's understandable. What doesn't have much demand deserves to be cut.
But public universities? A nation has no shortage of money when it comes to wars. But never enough money when it comes to education and health which cost a lot less?
It's not money. It's politics.
This is west Virginia’s flagship university. The nation as whole still prioritizes education,
@@jamesbaxter222 Almost all your elite Universities are privately run. Through donations and student fees.
That's not valuing education (formally). Privatisation of Education is the beginning of its end.
If the kids graduating with a degree in underwater basket weaving are working at McDonald's then the degree is worthless to everyone but the student loan people. They love it.
do you really think anyone is graduating with a degree in basket weaving? or anything like it? could it be that the united states is so focused on satisfying the corporate world with workers that we're turning into a slave mentality society?
@@jensonee underwater basket weaving. It's much more difficult than regular basket weaving. The higher education system is decidedly NOT a corporate shill, at least not most of them. They are so worried about keeping their own hustle solvent they could care less about industry unless that industry is somehow siphoning dollars into their bottom line. BTW, "underwater basket weaving" is a tongue in cheek way of referring to the 30-50% of the degree course that has nothing to do with the degree... it's just for the administration and student loan industry to their piece of your pie and to get the student indebted, hungry, and therefore compliant and willing to take abuse before they ever earn a dollar.
@@intheshell35ify part of what you wrote is true. here in oregon the university of oregon is supposed to be a public school but the state only contributes about 8 to 10% to UO's budget. over 50% is from student tuition. the rest from rich donors who, as all the rich do, control where their money goes. business people want business students. and they love sports. i understand the reference for basket weaving but it's BS. when my son tells me about a very bright student getting their degree and working at a fast foods place. i remind him, he doesn't want to go there. so yeah, there are majors that lead to the poor house.
the thing for people who have degrees that go nowhere, say a history degree, businesses will still hire them because they've learned how to learn. i worked at nasa in mt view on the wide area network, the internet, for sterling software. a new technology that needed bright people to design it. none of us had degrees in engineering networks.
I know nothing about this and I am nobody but I am guessing the president is choosing a niche to be really good at and focusing on that while letting other things go. This is strategic marketing 101. When markets get competitive choose a niche (or niches in this case) that you can focus on, be the best or close to it and so attract customers ( or students in this case)
We are spending too much on higher ed
1) Look at Germany. It is an industrial powerhouse. They got there through prioritizing high value vocational skills. That does not need a college degree
2) Look at our higher ed debt levels. That shows the education is not yielding a net benefit for a lot of people
3) Look at all those jobs that don't need a college degree, requiring a college degree. That shows we have an oversupply
4) Look at medical school requiring a bachelors degree apply. Your history degree is not making you a better doctor (or if it is, it's not making it 200,000 dollars and 4 years better)
We need everyone to have tertiary education. That does not mean it should be college. It costs a lot & it takes several years. That kind of investment needs to pay dividends to society and the individual
Probably the smartest thing they ever did, and the rest of the US needs to follow their lead. We need to cut that university budget and put that money to use elsewhere, building public housing for Central Americans and South Americans who will be able to fill those jobs at a later date after we get them some basic English and a teaching cert.
West Virginia is in an austerity mode. Those things that can be cut, will be. WV is a poor and aging state that is losing population. Therefore, they have to concentrate on the "basics." Post secondary education across the United States is slowly approaching a "crisis mode" with fewer students applying because of relevance, and most of all, affordability.
How better to lock in a legacy of poverty
Usually it's the Education Departments that produce math teachers, not the math departments. Math departments often help produce teachers, but largely just contributing "breadth", i.e. an exposure to a bunch of mathematical topics, a little beyond what people see in primary school.
Intellect isn't required to vote Republican, so why invest in it?
The republican party use to be the party of college educated people.
Are you Jordan Petersons dad? I've been wondering where he got his perspective from. Plant corn, you get corn.
Omg and they have a surplus? Fire him and prosecute him.
The state has a surplus, not the university.
His name is Gee, not Jee.
The spin away from traditional 4 year broad programs comes from the experience of young people in the marketplace such a programmers who are valuable and well paid without a college credential.
Further with the mi imum 4 year cost of $100 k, the idea of wasting time and money in required lower division breadth courses to provide more students in less economically profitable fields needs a rethink. Indeed perhaps 2.5 years of more focused upper division courses is a more cost effective standard.
If costs need to be reduced or contained something of lower priority needs to be cut. Useless administrators first. Then the lower priority programs.
You're worried about the economy and downsizing Math departments? Hm... no wonder kids today can't count without a machine. How do they expect to get to upper division physics and engineering without trig or calculus? You need at least basic trigonometry to do physics.
It always amazes me that the very people claiming responsibility to teach math, science, logic, reason and language often claim the inability to measure the direct and indirect benefits of dollars spent on education?
Its time for higher ed to take it to the pupils 20 years ago when the technology presented itself.
No other industry would incorporate and consolidate in the times of such access to innovation thats achieved and cost effective.
Not to mention 70 years its been granted deterministic simplicity and unification pushing its infinite sums of complexity down upon many different disciplines and lower level public education designed to filter out and recruit under the Prussian school reform models if the 80s,90s etc etc.
They havnt supported unification and simplicity where it matters with mechanics and technicians who rationalize the systems they work with very differently, the terminologies of these ben Franklin systems that once was served now work independently.
So higher ed bailed on its greatest service
I think it is a very good thing for the economy that students are not adding to the $1.73 trillion student loan debt as fast as a few years ago. The degree a graduate gets is worth very little. A 1 year trade school costs less,pays off sooner and helps the economy.
It’s a purely ideological movement to destroy our ability to think critically.
Including our ability to understand that our federal government issues our national currency that everyone else relies upon.
Including state & local governments, businesses, banks, individuals, and households.
So, the first move was to cut federal dollars going to our universities & colleges.
Second move was to install state governments who refuse federal educational grants.
Because either really don’t understand that our national currency comes from our federal government
Or they present not to in order to destroy state & local budgets
Defund and dissolve these enclaves of radicalism and racial cultism. Rebuild centers of actual learning, focused on STEM.
The most dangerous thing to elected politicians is an educated electorate.
High Education needs to be for academics that will have an ROI for the student receiving the degree. Eliminate all garbage majors like Gender Studies(TM) and promote STEM instead.
Managing decline seems to be whats happening all over.
Interview states, 'Universities are 'doing too much'. What?
Generation Z is the smallest generation EVER in history. We are entering 15+ years of a shortage of workers.
And yet some vehemently oppose the migrants that are banging on the doors to come to do the work.
Wealthy international students will always want to come to US to study as they do not have enough spaces in their state universities esp when they have to take exams to get into their universities and there are only certain number of places. Tons of undergraduate int'l students want to perfect their English as well as get internships in US...they will also provide workers, etc. Check the int'l undergraduate admissions at each school if you doubt this.
no, Gen Z is at average if you rely on the stats of individuals born after 1995 and before 2013. Give it a few more years to see them become more prime aged workers
@@maryr7593 Are you saying that there are a lot of international students that want to go to West VA schools?
@@1106gary don't know specifically about WV schools...for international students. But Wisconsin, Iowa, IL, MI, MN....all not weather friendly schools have huge populations of international students seeking admission to US schools...both undergrad and grad admissions. Depending on the study major....usually students from India and China want comp science and engineering. Students from China have much better test scores in Math...if schools are still requiring test scores as a method of admission. Some students whose TOEFL scores are not high enough will seek the English as second/foreign language programs first and then apply for admission elsewhere. Students on F-1 /J-1 student visas have an option to spend a year at a job for occupational training. (They do need to apply through their school for this as well as apply to get the internship....visa regulations say they either have to be enrolled in school or practical/occupational training to be legally in country.)
If WV is gutting their public universities, they could offer the facilities to a Native tribe in the area to start a school...especially if the university is a land grant one. Land grant means the state/fed offered land in late 1800s/early 1900s to have a public university. The land did not have to be purchased....huge advantage to the institutions who served all white male students of the time. Tribal colleges and historically black universities (hbus) had to purchase the land for their colleges at a huge expense. They are not considered public universities as don't receive public funds. Anybody can apply to either group of universities though. Tribal colleges are set up more like community colleges as many of their students have families, jobs, in addition to studies but they are trying to add advanced degree options (besides an associates degree)....many colleges offer Bachelors degrees. If tribal colleges and hbus (or combine the two entities to make a jointly run operation) had the opportunity to get the facilities, teachers, students, etc...nobody would jobs, students currently enrolled could continue to get their degree, the tribal colleges and hbus could incorporate their particular curricula that each of their schools have ...this would provide a huge leg up for those tribal nations in that area who do not have a college. African Americans students could have another option for a historically black college (or at least 'of color'). It will never happen though...no public largely white state university will give the land and facilities/equipment, etc to a historically disadvantaged minority race (any non-white race). This is part of the historical systemization of racism in the US that has occurred for centuries to keep the minority opportunities to a minimum. Look it up. If you don't know it happened, you can never recognize when it's happening again nor know how to change it in the future.
If we are entering the 15+ yr shortage of workers then we should be opening up every border portal we have and get work permits for all since that is a population of people who WANT and are ready, capable, and able to work. If the US K-12 and beyond educational system put a greater emphasis on learning foreign languages and not allowed the US population to become 'entitled' in their thinking that the business language of the world is English and so I don't need to learn a language, everybody has to learn English to cater to my needs...(through the years of 1960s and beyond), there might be more US citizens who actually speak other languages to help accommodate the new immigrants in their jobs while they try to learn English. It is a very long process of learning to speak/write a language....just ask the thousands of Americans who are in the process of immigrating to Portugal, France, Spain, Germany, Greece, Mexico, Italy,Thailand, Japan and a variety of other countries. Embassies (VFS) in US should be publishing on a regular basis how many residence visas they are processing every year. People would see just how many US citizens are leaving the country for greener pastures. Also ask those folks how difficult it is for them to learn the language of their new country. Nobody would be able to do a job where they had to interact with others...if they went there to work a non-remote job. They would need people on the job speaking English to give them training and direction. Many factories and farms in the US who NEED Spanish speaking labor have employed English/Spanish speakers (or sent their English only speaking workers to learn Spanish) so there are ppl who can speak both languages at all levels of the company....so workers can advance through the ranks and complete language fluency will not hold them back. With the immigration flow of 2023, all nationalities seem to represented so just speaking Spanish is not enough. Ukraine, Russian, French, etc...
what happened in the previous 12 yrs of "education"?
I wonder if the university could simply cut back on administrative bloat.
I can't see how you expect to understand the intricacies of curriculum design at the university level by asking the president some questions. And you conclusions reflect this. Like "there are not enough math teachers" versus not enough teachers qualified in math who are willing to work in the public schools. Maybe producing more of them will have no effect on the number who do not quit the profession in the first three years (70% last time I checked. Wasted 5 years of school). There is a lot going on. I hope they cut every degree program that ends in "Studies". We need new smart well educated young people before GenZ gets us all killed!
If they can destroy public higher education they can promote private and religious schools.
Ending GRADUATE (not undergraduate) programs in math leads to fewer math professors at the college level but not fewer math tech era t the K-12 level. I’m no supporting this change, just trying to explain how the cut doesn’t really change the pipeline for K-2 teachers.
College education as it is is obsolete.
Right now they are basically job training centers, not centers of education imbuing students with the critical thinking skills and the broad base of knowledge provided by The Liberal Arts & Humanities which used to be the norm and the ideal.
@@nsbd90now Nothing should be excluded. The sciences, humanities and liberal arts should all be taught together.
@@shutinalley You don't seem to know what the Liberal Arts curriculum consists of, since you just named them all as separate things.
@@nsbd90now The problem with the education system is that it revolves around a classroom and the privilege to pay for the best that has to offer. The future of education will be 100 percent free and consist of travel and hands on experience. What we have today is an archaic system of prepping the youth for industrial jobs that no longer exist. School until now has always been about preparing people for the workforce. That workforce is now becoming obsolete.
@@shutinalley I find it so bizarre that our schools are funded by district, rather than state-wide or country-wide. Because of this, rich areas have wonderful schools, poor areas do not.
am i missing something or has west Virginia 1,8m inhabitants and he's comparing it to the UCLA in California with 40million ? 🤔
The rot of the country is spreading
West Virginia has schools?