The Polynesian Exchange: Polynesia and South America Meet
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 พ.ย. 2024
- Contact between Polynesia and South America has long been a topic of speculation and debate among scientists. What was once a fringe idea has become more credible than ever. In this episode, we explore the circumstances and evidence around the event that brought these cultures together, the Polynesian Exchange.
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Thanks so much for this. Were the easter island statues lighthouses? observation posts? Coz if you are on your way to south america that's a good place to look for contact. i know there's some islands north and west of there nearer to mexico but it seems to my INEXPERT eyes the art in Peru is most similar to Polynesia.
I was reading in historical archeology theories that the NW USA Canada Native Americas were actually Pacific Islanders blown off course settling there as the tree carving arts and use of boats for ocean fishing seemed more Pacific Islander - or just tradition from tens thousand years back from boating along coasts from lower Pacific near Asia along across Bering Seas lands kept similar myths art.
A valid reason, which is plausible, is that they still kept exploring, but none of the missions until 800CE were successful, or they got contacted by the east cultures in South America, stating they were not allowed to go further east. Such as much too far away to find their way back before they expired, or just establishing an outpost in a vast area such as South America, and getting distracted by the natives enough to lose immediate instinct to go back to the pacific trading.
Incredible work would love to see a Huastec video next
I just went to Oaxaca last week and was thinking about your trip.
Is there a way to join your group on sites without taking the whole trip?
Polynesian expansion was intentionally into the wind, so if nothing was found they could easily get back safely
Oooo! I never thought of that!
@@AncientAmericas But is it true? I knew a LOT about the oral traditions of Polynesian navigation, and I didn't remember that bit.
came down to the comments for exactly this :) indeed, a combination of manoeuvrable boats and careful navigation gave them a way to head into or abreast of the wind, whilst retaining a reasonable fallback route to rush home in case they didn't find anything.
notably, they also had complex physical maps (made of woven plant materials) indicating islands, currents, and a host of other features that could be relied upon to navigate between and record discoveries.
did they tack, row, or water currents?
@@QuizmasterLaw there's a lot of debate about this, despite attestations from remaining polynesian navigators (wherein oral history indicates this as their formal approach). tacking is definitely possible with crabclaw lateen sails, but is far more labour-intensive than with a fixed-mast configuration. rowing at length is unreasonable - not even the vikings did that. the most common assertions are that the polynesians used a mixture of sail-abreast/sail-adjacent navigation (given that currents aren't actually locally uniform in direction), and tacking as needed.
a relatively recent study asserted that there were occasional shifts in direction of prevailing currents that would allow sailing east with the wind at their backs, but as always, this remains a matter of debate. regardless, the archaeological and genetic evidence clearly indicates that they repeatedly and successfully sailed in the 'wrong direction', and back again.
That 1600 year pause in Polynesian expansion was probably because they had reached the International dateline, and didn't want to lose a day by crossing it.😉😆
😆lol.
Lol I can only imagine how this exchange went down
Polynesian: what can you give me in exchange for my chicken mcnuggets?
Native American: *pulls out bag of potato chips
Polynesian: Deal!
s tier comment, sir. 🫂
More plausible theory is that modern north Americans originally from Europe concocted your favourite meal; potatoe chip and McDonald's nuggets
@@MarkFranklin-ws5jf 😂 I don't eat food from McDonald's. Dietary choices. America invented the potato chip.
Here's my (crackpot) idea: so we already have the idea that a South American vessel and its crew could've got swept out into the pacific accidentally (which seems quite plausible given the winds and currents) and made contact with Polynesians. If that happened, I think it's reasonable to imagine the Polynesian people they met would be like "lmao that's crazy, let's go check this place out". Like, they already had a tradition of exploration and expansion, and proven ability to navigate and sail huge distances, so I feel like it'd be a pretty sound investment to make the voyage, if you already knew there was a new place out there that had a whole bunch of hitherto unknown flora and fauna. Maybe they'd even bring the lost sailors home! I don't know how plausible this is overall, but I like the story it makes.
Not a crackpot idea at all. Makes total sense.
I think there. Is a movie about this and that it did happen
@meandering and lost, while proven possible that westward raft sailing could be feasible. Polynesian are highly motivated experienced long voyage sailors.Capable of supporting life while at sea by catching fresh fish and collecting drinking water.
Sounds like the plot of a new Disney movie 😄
@@BusyBeaver731Moana's new groove
This is a really excellent video! Just to add a note about them navigating against the wind at 12:38 (also an additional argument against Thor Heyerdahl's theories). Navigating against the wind was actually a very standard and safe way to explore the ocean when most maritime societies did so. It meant that if anything went wrong and you didn't find land it allowed you to get back home much more quickly. In fact what made "age of discovery" European navigators unusual was that they sometimes *didn't* do this. Like what made Columbus significant was that he sailed *with* the wind in a borderline suicidal trip that just happened to pay off for him thereby unlocking the Atlantic wind system for European navigators. European navigators before him always sailed against the wind when they probed the Atlantic Ocean so that they could get back home quickly but this made it hard for them to actually cross the Atlantic which is why they didn't. Magellan too sailed with the wind when he crossed the Pacific but in his case I think it was more kinda of an accident than planned out from the beginning. He didn't know anything about the wind patterns of the Pacific and he got stuck in the Pacific trade wind system and was basically trapped in it until he crossed the Pacific and nearly died in the process due to them running out of supplies (he also thought the Pacific was way smaller than it was when he first set out tbf). I read about this in Felipe Fernández-Armesto's biographies of Magellan and Columbus.
Thank you! That is a very good point.
@AsrielKekker Yeah there were Atlantic European legends about islands (and one of those legendary islands was called Brazil) but they were thought of as islands not land continents. Columbus knew about those legends but he was trying to get to Asia.
@henrimourant9855 ah I know about the Island of Brazil because I'm from Ireland, the Island was rumoured to be off our western Coast in the Atlantic
@@pebystroll Sorry you are right I misremembered. It was an originally Irish legend not a Portuguese one (there were a bunch of legends about islands at the time). However it seems to have spread to Spain and other parts of europe so it is very plausible that Columbus knew about the legend. Also we know he had visited Ireland (Galway) before.
I have read (I'm sorry I don't remember where) that Columbus also kept two log books, one to record what he thought was the actual distance travelled, and a second one to show the crew that had reduced distances so that the crew would be less worried about getting home if they found nothing. Turns out that the reduced distances were actually more accurate.
Shout out to Stefan Milo! Both of you make such amazingly well researched and enthralling videos
Thank you! His videos are awesome!
@@AncientAmericas I like yours better. More thorough. BTW would like some coverage of Tim Rowe's Hartley mammoth site in New Mexico securely dated to 37kya. Tools were almost all chipped bone, with only a half-dozen stone flakes. Archaeologists seem terrified to mention it online.
This channel is way better.
you don't know how much I love this channel
Thanks!
Yes, we do.
I'm so happy you covered this, as an Ecuadorean my anthropologist Aunt and I would love to talk about the Manteños (the notorious sea faring people of Ecuador) but would often be limited to speaking to others since it seemed farfetched to some people and sadly we dont have a lot of archeological discoveries to study apart from a few clay pieces since their sails, textiles and homes would rot in the humid conditions of the coast.
Criminally underrated channel. I can’t even imagine how much time you guys spend looking for sources and researching. Mad respect.
Thank you!
Polynesian navigators also used to take note of any changes in water temperature, as when correlated with wave direction and the aspect of the wind, this made it easy to make oceanographic 'charts'.
It also enabled them to determine very quickly when they had switched currents.
They used a certain male body part to detect small temperature changes in the water.
Honestly this may be my favorite historical example of contact between distant cultures, genuinely a fascinating topic imo
I love Polynesian studies because this is the closest to our experience to interstellar society.
Societies and communities spanning thousands of miles and yet many cultures retained the knowledge on how to travel across to one another.
It also gives insight into a long-distance settler culture that’s pretty recent and has some documentation, vs. more of our historical myths on the settling of the planet.
I feel like researching Polynesian culture would be beneficial.
I’m Samoan, and I’m thrilled for this video. Thanks for posting, enlightening for sure!
Thank you!
Thanks for the great video. There is also a lot of evidence of Hawaiians reaching Southern California and interacting with the Chumash. From fish hooks, to plank canoe technology, and even the word for canoe, tomol in Chumash, tomolo in Hawaiian are so similar. The famed pineapple express atmospheric rivers would allow a strong wind to blow them against the prevailing currents to the California coast. We may never know for sure, but it all seems likely. Who would imagine Spaniards in the Pacific until they were.
I heard that the Chinese reached California and it wouldn’t surprise me at all. And I love the fake story about how Sir Francis Drake reached California as well and there’s proof 😂😂 yeah right 🙄
It is also hypothesized that the Pericú people of southern Baja had contact with Polynesians due to their distinctive canoes and language.
One thing l find amazing about the Spanish is they managed to miss Hawaii in all those voyages between Mexico and The Philippines.
Tomolo is not our word for canoe in Hawaiian - our word is waʻa. However, people do believe the word has Polynesian roots. There are also agricultural and other linguistic evidence points.
@@kpaukeaho6180my Chumash friend once told me when some people from Polynesia visited CA, they recognized specific elements of canoe construction that they did not see in other native American canoes. Does that ring true to you as well?
Last Time I was this early the Moche were still making Pottery.
Same
there were still mammoths around for me
last time I was this early the Chinchorro were still Mummifying their dead.
last time i was this early my shaft tomb hadn't been looted yet
Loving this thread!
there is no channel whose videos i anticipate like this one. i didn't know how much i enjoyed native history. great vid!!!
I have eaten kumara in New Zealand all of my life and always knew that Maori brought it here but also that it originally came from South America. It was then no surprise when genetic evidence of American and Polynesian contact came to light. We expected it would.
I am so happy to hear someone say Aotearoa before New Zealand. Honestly it shows so much diligence on your end! I’m actually beaming, this means a lot to me! I think this is the first I have heard someone without a kiwi accent say this! Tu meke, nui te aroha mai Aotearoa ❤
It was never the name for all of New Zealand. It was the name used by some Maori tribes for the North Island only. If you knew anything, it would be that the name was adopted by some British settlors to promote the country in the late 1800’s.
Presumably the "long white cloud" is the snowline on the Southern Alps
@@brianmarshall1762 the edges of such a claim are fuzzy at best, barring any historic documentation where Aotearoa was expressly defined as not being inclusive of the southern island. Even if that were the case, I’m not sure that really matters to the point of calling the country Aotearoa, which is to assert an endonym for the place given by its native people vs. an exonym given as part of its colonial history. Why not embrace a name that is unique to the place rather than one that is a secondary reference to another land on the other side of the world which bears almost no relation to it? Is Aotearoa really a second Zealand?
@@kpaukeaho6180 oh rubbish. Go do some actual research. The early Polynesian settlers took the practice of naming the individual islands. There was no common or accepted name for New Zealand. What was the name for New Zealand on the Maori version treaty of Waitangi (1840), some 60+ years after common contact by British sailors and missionaries? It was not Aotearoa was it.
while you’re reasoning that south americans would have had to teach polynesians how to safely prepare manioc does make sense, there is a plant called Polynesians Arrowroot, or Pia, which is a island tuber that has glykoalkoids present, and thus requires multiple cycles of flooding and straining the ground up flour of Pia to get rid of the poison and bitter taste. this method was indigenous to the polynesians and thus could’ve been used as a starting base for the preparation of manioc without the knowledge of south american native groups
Ahhh! That is very a very good point! I wasn't aware that they were cultivating potentially toxic plants already.
Theres also Karaka berries in Aotearoa. The fruit is quite tasty but the inner seed is toxic. They would be packed in large baskets and immersed in running water for at least 2 weeks then cooked and ground to produce a 'flour'
@@nigelworters3667 Some cultures from Eurasia & North America did the same to bitter acorns. They put them in bags or baskets submerged in running water for days to leach the bitter tannins. Flour was made from the resulting edible product.
I'm very happy someone else believes this was possible !
According to the tradition of my waka Tainui, one of the main reasons that they left Hawaiki (the mythical homeland concept shared across Polynesia) was a result of overpopulation and war. In this instance, the Tuamotus islands are considered to have been the ancestral land of Tainui as a result of folklore that still exists on Tuamotus speaking of a group that had left, and also archeology.
For sweet potatoes, they are very ingrained in culture and tradition and I am sure they were apart of Polynesian culture for a very long time; hell, the Musket Wars occurred as a result of the arrival of potatoes which replaced the sweet potatoes since they could be grown year round.
@@dffndjdjd Definitely not, if it was then it would be found across Austronesia, but it's not. Hawaiki is a very East Polynesian concept (distinct from West Polynesia which is Samoa and Tonga, which as mentioned in the video are ancient compared to the second wave of settlers). It's rooted in the idea of second wave Polynesian expansion, it is distinctly Polynesian tldr
Edit: Also, Australasian refers to both Austronesia and Australia. Australia was inhabited for tens of thousands of years before Austronesians even existed, the term you are looking for is Austronesian
@@dffndjdjd ...we know the myth of Hawaiki isn't an Austronesian one, it's uniquely Polynesian, the oldest linguistically constructed term is from Proto-Polynesian. You are building this from your preconceived notions of our people, just do some research instead of applying it to your already known thoughts
Even to humour you, Austronesian is a very complex and large language family of over 6,000 years, of tens of thousands of languages and peoples; if it was something this long back, it would've been preserved in the countless other ones but it hasn't. They all have their own unique mythos and so on. Indo-European mythologies for example share common traits, from Rome to India to Britain, same is for Austronesia in some places, but this place is not one
Interesting, your stating that uala (kumara) are grown seasonally. I grow uala year round in the middle of the Pacific latitude 20°N
I was low-key waiting for you to cover this topic! A lot I didn't know here. Great stuff, love your work.
Thank you!
Since the 1980s Polynesian activists from New Zealand, Samoa and Hawaii have voiced their support and solidarity for Native Americans in the US, Mexico and Central America due to the hardships and discrimination the natives in those regions still face. This shows that Polynesian-Native American relations have lasted almost a millennium, like their friendship meant to be.
They call each other "Cousin"
As a Filipino, this may as well be further connection between us (or our ancestors) and the ancient peoples of Latin America - if their mestizos from Spanish colonization don't already connect us enough.
I'm always so excited to see your new videos!
Thank you!
Thank you so much for taking me on this fantastic voyage. Your common sense and sense of humor made it very enjoyable. Letting indigenous peoples come up with their own ideas and technologies without help from the West or aliens is wonderful. Thank you.
Thank you!
This might be my favorite channel on TH-cam. Sorting through ancient American history can be a game of fairytales and hearsay, and this is doubly true for Polynesian culture. The mythos surrounding the voyaging culture of the pacific is full of red herrings, and I'm really happy you took the time to help organize what we can say for certain!
upload caught me with snacks ready i have been blessed today
I love that you refer us to other great TH-camrs. Thank you for supporting other creators. That action, and the scientific perspective and practices (hedging, looking at lots of perspectives) got me to subscribe just now.
Thank you!
20:29 "Powerful foreigners sailing in to found or reform a culture" is a very Polynesian myth, and I find it very facilitating to see it mirrored here. It doesn't seem particularly hard to come up with for their credit, but it is a fascinating coincidence that may be worth looking into
Babe, wake up, a new Ancient Americas episode just dropped
@@lemonadetheworld If Polynesians had landed in Mexico, Central or South America they'd have never returned home
This isn't even a drill. I DROP whatever I'm doing for these.
having grown up on Oahu, I was particularly stoked for this notification.
And why not? Completing your meaning goes a long way. Now we are left to guess your intention. ie; ignorant statement
@cameo, yes agreed.This channel is very high on my list of importance.
I just happened to watch Sefan Milos video on this for the first time yesterday after randomly having it pop up on my feed. Then today I see you post this felt like destiny 😂❤
That's an excellent video!
I like the pauses to emphasize that the next part is speculation or unproven. I think its important to put out new ideas but moreso to know that they are flawed but can be expanded on.
One thing that some people see as a evidence of contact between Polynesian and Andeans is the Ahu Vinapú wall in Easter Island. The architecture is very similar to the inca stone walls in Cusco; the stones are big irregular squares together with perfect shape between them. I like to believe that the emperor Tupac Yupanqui actually travelled across the sea to ninachumbi.
Masonry of this type is common around the world in unrelated cultures as far afield as Greece, and the only people who claim it's evidence of contact are the ancient aliens folks.
That's definitely possible.
@@dffndjdjd The walls are the oldest construction on the island, probably predating the end of tree growth, and the moai.
That same scientific paper the video mentions, confirm polynesians and amerindians mixed before settling easter island (closest island to the americas). Hence why the paper proposes the Amerindian -> Polynesia scenario more.
also the moai heads. you'll see similar style of sculpture in south america as well. While i'm not really sure if that practice was wide spread among the polynesians except on the easter island.
What a BRILLIANT video, well scripted, well presented. I was enthralled from start to finish, equally amazed at both my Polynesian ancestors as well as those of the coastal Americas. I look forward to more research on this exchange, such as the study that you showed inspired this doc. You sir are top notch at what you do, providing historical evidence and arguments that inform and enlighten. And you are witty as well, which makes the historical information all the more enjoyable. Instant fan - BRAVO 👏🏾
Thank you!
The goat is back, time to binge again. I hope this is a sign we will get a mapuche video soon
Man, I remember tagging that Zenú study in one of your older videos. How nice to see you developing this topic. Thanks a lot!
On 18 May 2014 Hōkūle‘a and its sister vessel, Hikianalia embarked from Oahu for "Malama Honua," a three-year circumnavigation of the earth. It returned to port in Hawaii on 17 June 2017. The journey covered 47,000 nautical miles with stops at 85 ports in 26 countries.
-From Wikipedia
The Polynesian civilisation is one of my favourites, am so happy and glad that a lot of history and their techniques still survive!
In my opinion the highest state of technological development of any lithic/wood/shell based culture. There were lithic/wood/shell based culture technologies that were superior in some areas. Think Dorset/Inuit in terms of clothing. But overall I think the Polynesian top them.
The circumnavigation. Did they transit the Panama and Suez Canals ? I would hate to think of facing the Drake Passage in a voyaging canoe. Or the Cape of Good Hope.
@@mpetersen6 Pretty sure it was with the Panama canal but damn it does not make this any less impressive!
In the end, these ships were designed to navigate the tropical pacific. Overall, though, I agree with you, the Polynesians and Incas (well, they had copper) are some of the most advanced.
@@mpetersen6 Also, I've been reading a lot more about the wider Austronesians and Austronesian cultures and civilisations. Places like the Philippines had gunpowder weapons pre-colonialism. They mounted them in their boats as well.
@AncientAmericas please, please make a video about SEA / Philippines, it would be also really welcome by the big Filipino community on YT!
Getting to know about cultural exchanges between these two amazing groups of people is so amazing and interesting, that I fall short of words. Thank you so much for enriching us with this precious information through your video.
Thank you!
Thanks a lot to shed some light on this very interesting topic!
A french viewer
My pleasure!
Ahh, one of my favourite things when I see a proposal like this made - real evidence! So refreshing. 😊
That's a genuine compliment and not sarcasm, for the record.
Thank you!
as a Pacific Islander American i enjoy seeing evidence of connections between the indigenous cultures. maybe you could do a video on the 'network' of indigenous/ancient cultures from Africa up into Arabia and Eurasia down, through the Arctic and Pacific to the Americas
If there's some really good research out there on those topics, I'm game.
The original suggestion of cultural diffusion between Egypt and Mesoamerica was that the Egyptians cribbed pyramids from the Americans, not the reverse. A couple of Frenchmen proposed that, mid-19th c: Charles Étienne Brasseur de Bourbourg and Augustus Le Plongeon.
The forgotten Rapa Nui script is obviously way too mature to have originated there. It can really only have come from somewhere in the Americas, with a long pedigree there. Where, exactly, is a problem, because we don't know of anyplace they could have got it from. We may never know.
@@dffndjdjd Yep.. kinda sad when people don't give enough credit to humans.
It's more practical to build a large structure in the form of a pyramid than a cube or rectangle.
Every landscaper with a shovel knows that every indent made in a pile of sand, dirt, beauty bark or gravel will tumble down and create a slope that supports the mass.
High stone walls slope "inward" toward backfill..
We use post and tension to keep slab floors from “falling”
Gravity is a harsh construction environment.
“Flying Buttresses” made large indoor areas possible.. along with columns..
Creating "symbols" that represent a concept, word or even phonetics is not soley from "diffusion".. to assume so would be the same as assuming that throwing a rock or picking up a stick to use for a variety of purposes can be attributed to a single ancestors brilliant idea..
Humans are amazing!! We don't require "diffusion" although the concept cannot be denied.. it is not "the" reason for basic fundamental similarities in technological advancement.
Oh.. and just for fun and for anyone reading this.. it's not "Aliens".. 🤔😉🙄
(Had to toss that in)
Be Well!! 👍😀
I need to thank you.
Thank you for feeding into my guilty pleasure or learning about non European history for my bored European mind of European history.
Gringo here - I see manioc ALL the time and have a giant cassava/tapioca starch stash and a few frozen manioc/cassava roots.
Also - there are multiple varieties of manioc. Some are more drought/pest resistant but more toxic, while others are milder and easier to eat.
Note: my wife is South American and has a significant percentage of native ancestry - so I'm not your typical gringo. My wife's family grows and processes their own. Also, I love your channel! I'd love to see more about different groups in Brazil and South America east of the Andes, like the Tupi, Guarani, etc, but their may not be much evidence beyond your great video on the Marajoara culture!
Thank you!
love your videos so much. was actually wondering earlier today when you’d upload a new one. definitely one my my all time favourite channels
Thank you!
@@AncientAmericas absolutely. i recommend your stuff as much as possible. Ancient american history is a topic that needs to be covered more and i’m so glad that people like you are passionate about making videos to share it with people. i was always very disappointed that the only american history i was taught in high school was in relation to european conquest, and always wanted to learn more about what came before. i always find myself telling people about cahokia and such because of your videos haha
Great video as always. There is one additional piece of possible evidence of Polynesian contact with (North!!) America. Kathryn Klar & Terry Jones have two 2005 papers arguing for boat-tech diffusion from Polynesians to Chumashans in coastal southern California. I’ve talked to another Chumash linguist on this (who has spoken to Klar herself) and it seems the evidence is rather meagre, and he takes no sides. But most evidence on prehistoric contact is contested anyway, and very likely to be strengthened or weakened with new findings, so, good to give everything a thought. Of course, contact with southern California raises even more logistical questions. Easter Island is no longer the closest Polynesian settlement, but Hawaiʻi is. And then this may be (though not necessarily so) a different - second - instance of contact.
Thank you! I actually had a section on the original draft but I cut it out to focus on South America. I personally feel that the Polynesian-Chumash connection is currently weaker than the South America connection but that's a topic for another day.
@@AncientAmericasMaybe if more evidence is found/discussed, it can be its own video topic
Awesome video!!! The last time Ive come across anything to do with this topic was when i read Charles C. Mann's book series 1491 and 1493 back in 2012. Glad i came across your channel!!
Thank you!
Could you make a video about the natives of the Southern Cone? It's a topic usually ignored by English speakers, but very interesting. There were ven some proto-city states like Tastil and Quilmes in Northwestern Argentina. Also the Incas had presence there and even fought a war against the Mapuche. The natives of Tierra del Fuego are an especially interesting topic since they adapted to the cold conditions in ways different to those of the Inuit.
We'll get down there at some point.
It’s astonishing to think that Polynesians and Indigenous Americans came into contact centuries before the Europeans, even the Vikings! Although the latter might be around a similar time. Considering the massive distance between even Rapa Nui and the Chilean coast compared to Greenland and Newfoundland that’s incredible, especially against the winds.
Brilliant Video! a very informative and enjoyable watch.
Thank you!
Best TH-cam content. Voice, sensation, relevance & nuance.
Thank you!
Excellent share. As a Native of North America I've always felt at home on the Islands of Hawaii. Maybe there's more to it.
Thank you!
I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS!
Thank you!
Well, they definitely didn't teach me this in my history classes back in the 80s and 90s!
that was 30 years ago some things were not know n like genetics e.g.
@@QuizmasterLaw I know, I know - I just felt the overwhelming urge to out myself as a nearly middle aged individual while also supporting the channel 😂
Polynesian Exchange sounds like the perfect name to describe all of this, such a well done video!!
Thank you!
As a kiwi, I enjoy your channel. The Maori brought kumera to NZ at about the same time as the contact was taking place. Thats a long way for kumera to spread so quickly. Also, why do you think corn didn't make it into the pacific?Great video and love your content
Thank you! My guess (and I want to make it clear that its just a guess) is that because Polynesians practiced more root agriculture than grain agriculture, they would have been much more comfortable cultivating sweet potatoes rather than corn.
As a Polynesian im very appreciative of this knowledge, a lot of the history of our navigating ancestors was lost, due to time, christian missionary influence among other things. Malo aupito!
Thank you!
Talking of cultural exchange, there just HAD to be something like that which happened with regards to mound builders along the Mississippi and Mesoamerican cultures. They overlap in so many ways while being completely distinct. It's also a relatively easy trip up the coast of the Gulf of Mexico and into the Mississippi delta and beyond.
There probably was but teasing it out is very difficult.
Look up Dr Tim Pauketat at the University of Illinois. He is a Cahokia expert & recently write a really interesting book on this subject!
In my crazy theory, the Mississippian Culture is an offshoot of Huastec Maya/Tenek Culture of what is now Mexico. Mississippian agriculture points to its Mesoamerican origins mainly Corn, Beans, Squash and Tobacco. Likely founded in the same way the Phonecians leaving modern day Lebanon and founding the Carthage in Modern day Tunisia.
Not saying there was no connection, but I can also see how people living in areas prone to periodic flooding might independently develop a culture of mound building, simply as an obvious way to raise their buildings above the flood waters
Yay! I love it when you bless us with a new video 🎉
That was a really good summary of Austronesian expansion into the Pacific. My professor would have scored it a 4/5 on a test lol
Well now I must ask how I would have scored a 5/5? 😉
@@AncientAmericas Gotta talk about the Austronesian expansion into Micronesia, too, to get that last point. Bonus point for including the native Malagasy of Madagascar
Fair enough! That section of the script was originally going to be longer but I had to cut it down in the interest of time.
@@AncientAmericas Always better to stick to the main point!
@@AncientAmericas'Only god knows for 5, I know for 4 and my mother for 3' - an joke about professors in my country
My paternal Fijian (Melanesian) ancestors are from the Yasawa Is, which are the most westerly group of island in Fiji. Our Yasawan islands were famous for its traditional pandanas sail manufacturing and repairs for ancient canoes of the Polynesian navigators.
Legend also has it that due to our central navigational location, we were a stopping over point for supplies.
Oh hell yeah!!! 🎉
Wow! I've been waiting for this video and you really delievred. Awesome.
Thank you!
37:37 I live in Brazil and the dominant names for the crop are mandioca, macaxeira and aipim.
About toxicity, at least the breads we have here are not. Some places eat the leaves which have to be untoxified. However I've on occasion come acros a video of people preparing the leaves in some Portuguese speaking African country without any mention of toxicity. But yes, there are some breeds that are all toxic.
One exhilarating discovery was done recently by a Brazilian researcher who studied the cultivation practices of native people on a region of large genetic variety. The practice of burning a clearing, which was seen as inefficient and barbaric, turns out to be the key for breading and possibly genetically enhancing the crop because ashes are needed to make the seeds sprout. This was completely unknown to know native people until now.
Thank you for this detailed and well-researched video! This was super interesting and I learned a lot! Happy to see another video from you!
Thanks Dr. Smiti!
Thank you for your content of the pre-columbian Americans.
Always so full of information and so excellently presented. Many many thank yous.
Thank you!
My guess is that there was some improvement in sailing technology, around 800 AD.
That was a BIG physical gap to the central Pacific, that they finally leap 1,600 years later.
It may be that nobody with the older boats could get farther.
Most likely the improvement was in navigation skills, rather than boat construction. Knowledge is much harder to evolve than physical culture.
Yeah, in fact the native New Caledonian Kanak peoples were basically stuck on the island after colonization since their canoes weren't great for ocean voyages.
@@Akio-fy7ep I doubt it was just navigation. Knowledge of navigation is something that can be improved gradually, while something like being able to tack against the wind is probably going to happen in a huge leap.
Which is one of the candidates, I suspect.
@@KAZVorpal As I said.
This topic absolutely fascinates me and im so grateful to have this video
Thank you!
Ancient Tongans used the Star of Venus- Tapukitea to navigate sailing in we called Kalia(Double haul canoes) one of the famous voyaging Kalia’s was known as Lomipeau(Wave crusher). She sailed all the way to the East landed in Marquesas and they called “Otuhiva”, Hawaii was “Vaihi”. Samoans call her “Savai’i”. These voyages that ancient Tongans took was during the Tu’iTonga Dynasty-900C.E. Until the fall of the Dynasty in the late 1200’s.
Tevita Kaili a Tongan professor from BYUH ,has also put forward an interesting claim that Hawaiians would make trips to Eueiki and Eua in the Tongan group.
There are also pictographs that parallel one another in both Hawaii and Tonga.
The term Vaihi is also known to Tahitians and Marquesians as the OG homeland of the Polynesian people.
the joy i feel whenever this channel uploads
Pathway of the Birds is a fantastic book on this topic (a not insignificant portion of the book roasting Heyerdahl and Diamond for their racist assumptions about Māori and Pasifika) and the author Andrew Crowe has a talk on yt- "The navigational role traditionally played by birds. Andrew Crowe author of Pathway of the Birds." While he was giving the talk, the waka that many of the research expeditions using traditional wayfinding were done on pulled up into the harbour and surprised him and he ended the talk bawling to see it navigated in to Auckland to see his talk
Heyerdahl wasn't racist. Stop spreading lies
@@KarlKapoi don’t much care if someone personally/internally 'is/was' racist but whether they do/did racist things, and him leaping to to the conclusion that the people who settled all of the Pacific could not have done so intentionally and skillfully, combined with his search for a ‘Caucasion-like race’ that enabled this expansion- this strikes me as a racist assumption
@@TeTaongaKorora what he meant with white wasn't caucasian, simply pale. Sure, he was wrong about Mesopotamian-Amerindies exchange. But people claiming he was this Ultra racist is just wrong.
@@KarlKapo As I said before, I do not care whether he 'was' racist, but whether he did racist things. His assumptions that Polynesians could not have settled the Pacific intentionally and skillfully, as well as his assumptions about this 'Caucasion-like race,' are assumptions that strike me as racist that became very widespread myths downplaying Polynesian achievements
@@TeTaongaKororaI don't think he was "racist", but he was definitely wrong that the "society" was not capable of such amazing navigational expertise.
He was a bit too enthusiastic in his pursuit of his theory that the South Americans reached Polynesia before the Polynesians reached South America. The light-skinned red bearded legends from the South Amercan native cultures pre-dates his birth.
He had theories.. mostly disproven. Mainly in regards to direction of contact.. most folks didn't believe there was contact at all.
Maritime societies predate writing. Humans move around.
His Ra expedition was purposely made up of people from various races, ethnicities and backgrounds to show that "Humans" are capable of working together.
Oh.. just a side note.. not sure how accepting the Mesopotamian, Middle Eastern and North Africans are when being referred to as "Caucasian".. 🤔😉
Be Well!! 😀
Me and my kid really enjoyed this video. Great work keep it up!
Thank you!
I was literally watching another video about this, and I stopped that one to start yours
Bro that was pretty clean my man much love and appreciation!❤
Thank you!
I am a huge fan of your channel and I have personally been interested in this topic for years. I especially was shocked by the Purepecha artifacts I came across in Michoacán and how closely they resembled certain Peruvuan artifacts. I was also intrigued by the civilization of Lambityeco. I have been working on a video about this topic too, but haven't finished filming it yet.
I believe there were three distinct mentions of the voyage of Inca Tupac Yupanqui, not just two.
Also, look up what a tapir jawbone looks like to have a good chuckle.
Would you mind if I mentioned your videos about the history of the Maya in a video of mine? I'm currently working on a video about a southern classic lowland site and I would be happy to direct my viewers to your videos about the history of the classic Maya.
Thank you! You're more than welcome to mention my videos.
Your channel is amazing. Anyone who says youtube is a waste of time needs to check out incredible channels like this.
Thank you!
Comments for the Eldritch Gods of TH-cam, Pacific and the Americas.
Thank you for the video!
There is no way that this is the first video I get on my first day of my final year of uni on the exact topic im basing my dissertation on, like how
Ok, now I gotta ask, what is your dissertation on?
Fantastic video, really enjoyed it!
Thank you!
Thank you!
People making up insane conspiration theories when real history is this interesting boggles my mind.
Right?!
Anchors are also hard to miss. Solid technology exchange.
A pre-Columbian contact between Polynesian and South America actually didn't need to leave much trace. The Norse settled on Newfoundland in the 10th century but they barely left any influences in North America (?). Neither animals, nor food, nor technology nor even diseases. Thankfully we've found their former settlement. Which makes me think - could a Polynesian settlement in South America have been possible? Or were the interaction actually more frequent?
In many ways the old Polynesian and Norse seafaring traditions are interestingly similar. Nordic boats during the Bronze age and early iron age also has outriggers. Shipbuilding and navigation skills were very sophisticated so that long open sea journeys were possible,
I think that people just make two categories: either there was contact or there wasn't. It derives from the way the "great discoveries" are taught, that is that one the Americas were (re)discovered, it had to lead to massive exchanges and colonization.
In reality, a lot of human contacts have been sporadic and without much further consequences. That's why the Vikins in Newfoundland aren't a big deal and more like a technicality. Polynesian-SA contact could be more important given how it's correlated with the spreading of sweet potato, for example.
Also, people generally underestimate ancient seafaring. Even in the neolithic, humans traveled on rivers over long distances. Later, the Channel was the place of an intensive trade, even before the Romans, and we had to way centuries before reaching similar intensity for trade again. Norse invaders merely filled the gap.
The Vikings' interaction with the Native population in Newfoundland was both extremely brief and hostile. They did not trade goods, and there was (presumably) no exchange of DNA or diseases. Had the settlement lasted longer, there would have been a greater impact.
@@williamharris8367 This is why I would believe that the Polynesian-American contact was more of a sustained nature than just a one time thing. The ample evidence here could point to several contacts.
It's also debated how much Nordic-Native American contact was, as their word for Native Americans "Skræling" is the same as for a native Inuit Greenlander. Descriptions of "Skrælingjar" are featured in many Old Norse acount such as the Greenland saga, so there was many integrations, but it's not clear which people they really refer to at all times
For a while people believed that there was genetic evidence of Native American ancestry in old Norse populations, but this has been refuted by later studies as it has been explained by Nordic trade and integration with Siberian peoples which has a much longer history. Siberian peoples that were related to Native Americans.
The norse wintered* in Newfoundland. The Vinlander saga of the Christianized norse who settled Iceland and went on to explore Greenland and the north eastern coast of North America are themselves kind of explicit about that, I'm pretty sure there was a site set up in Greenland as well. Keep in mind this wasn't a tiny expedition of like, 1 or 2 ships, I think when they were heading for Greenland, Eric the Reds host had something like 70+ ships. The norse age of exploration was kind of a period of mass migration in general similar to that of the Germanic invasions of the Western Roman Empire some 500 ys prior and continuing.
Which is to say, really, there aren't even reasons to be ambiguous about the Norse presence in north america or wonder about the what ifs - these were educated (for the time at least) Norse part of a large migratory wave in Europe in general. They detailed their travels and wrote about them. There wasn't any extensive influence in North America at the time because they literally popped in and popped out, it wasn't a real attempt to actually settle at the site of L'anse Aux Meadows in Newfoundland, but weather that pushed it. There was no exchange of DNA / heritage etc because the natives (probably Beothuk or some other FN related) and Norse didn't really make an attempt at diplomacy in the first place, etc, and later following the Columbian exchange as europeans did start colonizing the Americas, much of America's north east coast was so thoroughly ravaged by things from disease / forced displacement / forced labor and so on that the oral traditions of a group like Beothuk who would at least have insight (maybe) on that brief nordic trip into the America's also vanished with them.
@@OldSlimJolo The main theory about Norse-Native American population "exchange" is that the Norse were keen slavers, and that they definitely could've take or buy (for example) Beothuk for slaves and brought them back to the Nordic countries, or take local women as "wives" (or sex slaves). This is not unreasonable reasoning at all as they did this so in other places. Also later medieval Norwegian and Danish ships did bring Greenlanders to the Nordics. But the "American" DNA in the Nordics is more easily explained by integration with Siberian peoples (old Norse also travelled alot in this direction along White Sea). So that theory is put on hold right now, but it's not really that of a bad idea.
I think the reasons why the Norse went into North America is not really that clear. Alot of it seems to be a general curiosity, "glory", a way to make a buck and political expansionism. Nordic expansion is hotly debated in modern scholarship and it has alot to do with population increase but it's not the only factor. There were also pure economic and political factors. Most early settlers of Iceland were refugees from Norway, the later scholarship of Norse Greenland actually point to commercial interest as Greenland waters had alot of whales and seal and the products from whaling and sealhunting such as
Ivory and Ambergris where hugely expensive for a rich customer base in southern Europe and even the Middle East. Norse traders had established a huge transcontinental market for their goods.
Great video, love the channel
Just wanted to say, when migrating it's common to bring along pieces of home. If/when indigenous South Americans made contact with Polynesians it would make sense, at least, it seems sound to assume that the Indigenous South Americans probably took their familiar foods and techniques with them into the west.
Thanks for all the work you do!
Thank you!
Hay una palabra que es usada en algunos lugares de la costa y los Andes norteños de Perú que se usa para nombrar a la especie botánica Cucurbita ficifolia, este nombre es "chiclayo". Este nombre se encuentra registrado como parte del vocabulario de la lengua muchik o yunga (de los moche o mochica), lo curioso es que en náhuatl la palabra para nombrar a esta especie es muy parecida a la usada en el norte peruano: Tzilacayutli (chilacayote). Incluso hay una ciudad en Perú llamada Chiclayo
We could learn so much from ancient way finders and navigation
I'm imagining a very tired judge awarding navigator of the year to a Polynesian for the 200th year in a row and the audience filled with Vikings, Arabs and Chinese sailors audibly groaning.
Lol
So glad I found this channel today... instantly subscribed.
With the existence of the Mapuche chicken (or Araucanian chicken ?), I always wondered why people were so reluctant to accept that polynesians had contact with south american indigenous people
Another banger, seafaring always interested me so much about pre columbian america, the complexity and use of sails on the pacific and the carribean ocean canoe tradition is so fascinating because they used "primitive" boats to accomplish frankly astonishing distance trade journeys and migrations
1.the 1150 exchange might has been some SA's on a floating island/boat. Guano islands were a thing to with Inca's so these boaters might be them get caught in storm and survived to a island. 1.5 in the 2010's there was a dozen reports of SA boaters who survived on their boats from birds/turtles and rainwater
2. i think i saw somewhere dating sweet potatoes 2000-3000 in Papua new Guainía (though this might be wrong) bird/floating islands/boats(or even sacrifice boat/tribute/like vikings) could be possible reasons.(forgot the 6th idea/theory)
2.5 another unlikely theory is a large mammal or even sea mammal died with sweet potatoes in its belly and made it to Polynsia islands thousands of years before contact... MANITESS do eat sweet potatoes in captive (i'm talking about the thousand of years ago contact not the more recent 900 years ago contact) or even a whales eating it... some large animals cant digest certain foods so it stays in there bellies for months/years and either its corpse or it was killed and they found the sweet potatoes in its belly
3. i had a much better worded out but when your video end i clicked on next video accidentally so i lost it
Great Video! You are always well-researched and explained it all so well.
Thank you!
On the hairless dog bit, I thought genetic studies showed modern dog breeds aren’t detectably descended from indigenous breeds (at all)? I guess it only matters if the Peruvian hairless dog doesn’t have a pre-Columbian counterpart. Truly there’s so much coming out now, people need resources like you to keep up with it all.
The xoloitzcuintli is a pre-columbian dog breed that still exists, although the modern version does carry a lot of European dog genes.
@@elguerobasado88 what I meant was I was under the impression that the modern xoloitzcuintli is actually a European descendent look alike
Delighted to discover your channel. ❤
Thank you!
Here in Chile we have always known that the polynesians arrived a long time ago, the chickens and all their legacy. The main problem is that Clovis IS the main and only human settlement according USA anthropologists.
Clovis is definitely not the oldest native culture in the west. The America's are a huge gamut of people and civilizations, and yes,that includes European influence too,like the Solutrean and may be even older specimen reached ,
Iike the Neanderthal. Very possible
I really really enjoyed that opening bit. It’s so fascinating to imagine what this first contact might have looked like, this moment where these peoples realize that they are encountering another people completely foreign to them. What I would do to go back in time and see how contact between them happened…
Babe wake up, Ancient America's newest video just dropped.
In 1966 at age 16 I formed a hypothesis that there had been contact between Australian Aborigines and Indians in Terra del Fuego. This hypothesis grew and developed as I grew and studied. Cutting out 58 years of paleoanthropological developments and 30 years of DNA studies the final part of my hypothesis that had grown into proven theories, has come to fruition this year. Austronesians, as well as populating Papua New Guinea and Australia, did have sailors in crude vessels cross the Pacific to South America. As well Polynesian descendants of the Austronesians went to AND returned from South America. Human Beings are bloody fantastic.
That ceramic art sure looks a helluva lot more like a chicken than a Muscovy duck....
really awesome topic glad to see it covered!!
Thanks Portal!