Could This Ancient Relic Be A Fragment Of Jesus' Cross? | Myth Hunters | Odyssey
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.พ. 2024
- Of all the world's ancient relics, perhaps a fragment of the true cross is one of the most valuable. Join archaeologists and theologians as they dissect the evidence as to whether or not this ancient shard of wood was once part of the cross on which Jesus was crucified.
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The amazing rush to the Holy Land for relics began centuries after Christ's death. Some of them were supposedly gathered during the Crusades, and I would imagine locals would be prone to creating such things to sell. As for Christ's cross, it's very doubtful it would have been saved but rather re-used. Crucifixion, for all its horrors, was a routine Roman execution for its day.
And you are absolutely correct. The relic business, much like the more modern antiquities business, was very profitable. I doubt people needed much convincing then, and while some may be more skeptical now, the excitement of potentially owning something that old, especially if it has historical significance, can still cloud the mind.
@@saraross8396 I don't know about the classical period, during the medieval period attracting pilgrims was quite profitable for some churches and abbeys. There's numerous examples of that.
Even by the 4th century it's possible unscrupulous people living in Palestine would have tried to pass off certain items as authentic objects from the 4 gospels.
The Romans probably reuse the crosses. Hence the all trace of the true cross would have been lost in administrate indifference.
They definitely re used crosses,Wood was very scarce in Judea back then.
Plenty of cedar trees in the area. Before the Ottoman Tree Tax
@@Mirokuofnite Not in ancient days.2000 years ago there were very few trees in what was judea.Theyve planted millions of trees lately but in Jesus time.The Romans had to import seige equiptment and crosses were re used.
The ancient cedar forest of Lebanon goes as far back to the story of Gilgamesh. The Cedar Tree is on the Lebanese Flag. Sadly what most ppl don't know is that the British cut down nearly all the forest in WW1 for railway sleepers.
@@scottyfox6376 Tragic
I would think that the Romans reused the crosses rather than make a new one for every crucification.
I agree. Wood was hard to get hold of in this locality at the time and it was not as if a crucifixion was an extraordinary event. They happened regularly. Very regularly.
They did
I also think they also reused the nails after straightening them. Crucifiction happened all the times, several times per year in Israel, maybe per month.
@@rolandrabier5984 Romans said to crucify a lot of people, but there is only 2 known cases of nails stuck to skeletons. So they have to had used serious recycling and not just toss stuff around. Funnily it's claimed this Helena, mother of Constantine is said to wander to Jerusalem around 326-28AD and just find 3 crosses lying at the Calvary. Seems plausible in city like Jerusalem that Romans just left 3 crosses to Calvary where they were 300 years just waiting Helena to arrive.
@@TJS3 Yeah, I thought that was rather silly also.
I can’t remember where I saw it, but a long time ago I saw a documentary on religious “relics” that claim to be pieces of saints (bone, hair, fingernails, teeth, blood, etc.) and/or their belongings (clothing, shoes, canes, their home, etc.) and they tested several different ones. They were almost always fake, or material that wasn’t what it claimed to be.
I believe it was a history channel documentary I seen the same one
Check out "Holy Prepuce". That's the Catholic church claiming to have the foreskin of Jesus from his circumcision. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
A carbon date could help identify a fake. Which I think is why so many aren't tested. It is more fun to allow the hope to exist than to try and prove anything.
@tray22 , Even if it's fake, there are people who will refuse to accept the evidence. First thing religion has to do with it's followers is kill their critical thinking skills.
❤💯💯💯💯💯💯💯👍😅💯👍👍
Turns out that, when the mother of the Emperor comes looking for reusable wooden crosses from 3 centuries ago, and starts torturing locals, all three are found neatly isolated, well preserved and conveniently labeled wherever you want them to be. And if they get lost 8 centuries later, they get you new ones.
HOW CAN ST HELENA BE A SAINT IF SHE AUTHORIZED TORTURE TO SATISFY HER CURIOSITY. ALSO WHY DID SHE HAVE TO CUT UP THE CROSSES WITHOUT AT LEAST RECORDING THE COMPLETE CROSSES-AN ACT OF ARCHAEOLOGICAL VANDALISM?
@@user-zy7uc2tw1e why all caps?
@@christianhoffman7407 Why*
I don't think she would have returned empty handed to her son the emperor, unfortunately
Summed up nicely 😎👍🏻
“Carbon 14 dating only works when I want it to.”
Basically, once you've staked your reputation on something I guess he can't accept its not true.....
There is one case where it was shown inaccurate, it dated an item to about 700AD when we know it's from at least 570AD, but still that margin of error isn't too bad and was put down to lamp oil.
So Helena tortures a guy to find out where the cross was buried and then she's made a saint by the church..smh
No because He was crucified on an execution stake Cross never executed. Roman's didn't have room of 36' between stakes IGNORANCE
You mean the way the rest of the so called saints murdered their way across the known world forcing Christianity on all.
By roman standards that probably wasn't torture.....
Don't believe everything you get off the internet.
- Pontius Pilate-
Lol
Ahahahaaaa
I've been scammed so many times with various purchases...
It's getting worse even Amazon isn't what it used to be.
But be sure to wash your hands 🙌 😂
...especially if it comes out of secular science...
I believe my church has the relic of the Holy Toothpick from the last supper.
My church has an original wine list from the last supper. However it was known then as the first supper, printers did not have hindsight to know there would not be another.
@@peter04345 According to most paintings these guys were reserving lot of space as they all sat on the same side of the table. "We want table for 26 people!" "okay...but there is only 13 guys in your posse?" "Yeah, we all like to sit on the same side of the table...."
Nah they just moved around for the photo.
No that is buried at oak island
There is apparently enough "original" wood from the cross to build a three bedroom house
So NO.
And enough nails from the cross as well.
the true cross house.
so they say,same about nails or bones or what have you not.
But who says the one or other piece of - evidence - might not be the real thing?
@@benediktmorak4409300 years after the fact? Wood needs to be taken care of unless you want it to rot. Even in dry conditions it’s not that stable without care.
@user-go,
That is not really true. I don't believe in all these relics as being authentic. But the mayority of parts of the 'True Cross ' are insignifant pieces of wood. Tiny splinters.
Put all together they're not enough to create one arm of the cross. ( So on that subject Calvin was wrong. )
Off course, the whole story of the 'finding of the cross ' is complete nonsense !
This BS about the Titulus goes the same way.
It's a waist of money to use science to proof or un-proof the authenticity of any of these objects.
But let's see it this way :
Imagine you are an orphan from birth.
Then, someday you find a photo of , what you think is your mother. ( You never met her and you don't know what she really looked like !)
Would you appreciate some inconsiderate person to tell you: " NAAH, THAH AINT YOU MOM !! THAS THE LADY WHO DANSED IN THE BAR NEKS THE BUS STATION !"
But t his photo was the only link to your mother.....
Sometimes the truth is just not the best answer. 😢
Helena starts search for relics about 330 years after Jesus was killed..
Random guy: I know where the cross is!
Helena : Where?
Random guy: Three of them right here! One even has a sign on it with Jesus name on it in 3 languages!
Helena: Seems legit...
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
They saw her coming.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
You're such a protestant
The question that everybody forgot to ask is: Why did the crosses and the tablet were in a cistern for 300 and some years until they were found?
And they did not rot!
Easy: persecution.
This video has the Dome of the Rock in it which was built several hundred years later than Helena’s travels.
Yeah, I guess they couldn't find any 600 year old stock footage of the original site. 😏
Three minutes in and I'll wager that this "ancient" relic hasn't been in a dendrochronologist's lab, or been radiologically dated.
Jeremiah 5:21 springs to mind.
I'm into this 20 minutes and still waiting for any mention of those evidentiary tree rings. They don't lie.
Jeremiah 5:21 says "Hear this, you foolish and senseless people, who have eyes but do not see and who have ears but do not hear…"
I’m having a difficult time relating that verse with this situation, but I’ll keep watching and see where it fits. I personally don’t think anything is wrong with people believing this piece of wood is off Jesus' cross, or any of the others. So long as no one is WORSHIPPING the piece of wood, what’s the harm??
I was waiting for someone to point this out. Tree rings can't be faked. Although I suppose you could find a piece of wood that old and claim it was the cross, but who would have bothered in the 1400s when they needed a boost in pilgrimage to help pay for the renovations.😉😄
So your looking for pieces of wood 400 years after the fact, you are asking to be conned.
There is a cottage industry at the base of mt Ararat of creating and selling authentic pieces of Noah’s ark.
If I or you ask for it yeah, but the emperor's mum who is going to con her 🤔
It could be true 😐
@@barbararice6650 how is she going to know. It is centauries before scientific testing. I have seen so many fake relics. Christians should be shamed by this, not celebrating it.
@@barbararice6650 It could be true that Santa lives at the north pole and make toys there too. It could be true.
@barbararice6650 , Special pleading for Helen I see. She's was just a gullible and naive as the rest of the Christians and theists.
I've got this one folks.......No it couldn't, cool story though
😂😂😂
What is your evidence, please?
@@StevesSlideandJazz what’s YOURS! 😂😂😂
@@marcuscrumpton8568you know you lost the argument when you have to answer a question with a question.
Thx for taking this one. I needed a rest.
“No forger would ever make spelling mistakes in a forgery!” 🙄🙄
In bible have wrong info first greek to latin and athers soooo
@@Asdfhjkl998 did you actually read my comment? I was quoting what he stated, because that whole argument is nuts! Forgers make mistakes all the time! Why should it be any different when it involves holy relics!
we can tell forgeries by the spelling mistakes Chinese porcelain has different writing to modern day . forgers dont always grasp that
@@ADEN1961 please see my comment above, that was the point I was making! I was repeating what he states in the video and rolling my eyes at the stupidity of the comment he was making!
@@lindathomas5500 yes I did get your meaning it just reminded me of experiences I had with fake stuff lol
Im no expert but the Hebrew looks surprisingly modern for the time period? I half expected to see some paleo variations especially with Resh.
Same but I think they weren't using Palo hewbrew anymore. But I'm not sure I'll have look it up.
Nope never mind they were using it after they came back from Babylon
I think if you really wanted relics of Jesus, you would need look no further than the Vatican archives. They’re the keepers of most important things, relics, documents, books, etc.
unfortunately yes
If it's a religious artifact, and any of it exists on the Earth, I agree. It's probably in Rome.
When one starts out saying I believe this is a part of the true cross all credibility is lost.
I watched a video where the water level of the Sea of Galilee exposed a boat from the 1st century CE. Right off the bat, Christians in the comment section said it was the boat Jesus was in when he walked on water.😂😂😂😂😂😂
Prove your evidence it isnt. 🥴🤡
@@tommy70888, Here we go again with Christians shifting the burden of proof.
@tommy70888 , A Christian shifting the burden of proof. Why am I not shocked?
@@samuelschick8813 not a christian nor am i religious. But u can keep assuming🥴🤡 why am i not shocked.
So Helena sponsored the first archeological dig.
But at that time they had no accurate way to date decayed wood.
Hahaha they were believing every single clue regarding the authenticity of the cross title but when scientific analyses are done they’re like, naw heck no that doesn’t fit my agenda. lol
You always get the truth when you torture someone to obtain it. "Hey - where is this thing that I'm looking for, from an event that "happened" 300 years ago?" "I dunno." Takes away food for a week and keeps them in a well...."Well, here it is." And then: Let me check with the guy who's existence depends on this relic being real. Yup. He says it checks out.
EVIDENCE OBTAINED THROUGH TORTURE IS GENERALLY COSIDWEWD UNRELIABLE AS THE PERSON BEING TORTURED WOULD SAY ANYTHING TO STOP THE TORTURE.
Some things never change
Possibly he thought he could make some money from withholding the information but she was used to getting what she wanted and wanted to make it clear she wasn't messing around.....
From having people tortured to find a cross to canonized
One question. Why on this supposed fragment are the Greek letters mirrored? Greeks always wrote left to right.
If I could gather all the pieces of the true cross, I could keep my stove burning for decades.
Amazing work 👍✝️
How bloody long do you think a wee bit of wood lasts
outside the natural history museum there's a tree trunk fossil that is 100 million years old
@@diorocks5858 fossil…not STILL wood
Neolithic bows have been found in Europe. Star Carr site for example.
@@mrjohn.whereyoufrom ahhhhhh fair one…thank you!
@@marcuscrumpton8568 Yes Sir its fossilized as we well know, but for some its still wood unfortunately.
Helena searches for Joseph of Arimathea's tomb 300 years later.
Random person: It's here under the Temple of Venus (Templum Veneris/Ναός της Αφροδίτης) in Aelia Capitolina.
Helena: OK....
Helena, an ancient version of Ron Wyatt.
I'm not convinced after watch this, the historian comes off as deseperate to believe his theory, I don't think he's going to allow anyone to challenge it.
old saying, "if you took all the pieces of the true cross, you'd have enough material to create the Ark"
Act of Random Kindness, ( ARK )
debunked and deeply unimpressive to cite to trying to discredit.
Am I incorrect in thinking that lumber was not easy to cut back in the days before sawmills? And I feel that crucifixion crosses were reused over and over until after repeated spikes inserted into it causes it to split prematurely. I certainly don't think each cross was used only once. They didn't have any respect to the person being hung, so can't see them having a mindset where a cross would be dedicated to the person being murdered on it, and buried with them as a casket would be. Not a chance. Crosses would be reused until they wouldn't hold the person or spikes anymore.
I remember in '64 our parish priest ,after a Holy Land visit, showing our class a sliver of 'The Cross' laying on purple cloth of a tiny wooden box ...
Very Good Video … Cross Relics.
Who needs a material relic when you’ve got a spiritual connection anyway?
Most likely not! 😄
Why would Helena chop up the most amazing relic in all Christendom? And how could wood stay intact buried in dirt for a millennium or more?
Most wood rots away over time, the wooden furniture from Pompei is unusual in being preserved. There are some wooden artefacts though from this time, in a museum I visited in Retford there is a boat dating around 5th century I think it was that is wonderfully preserved when it was uncovered in the 1980s.
Well there are bodies of Saints that haven't decomposed for hundreds of years, the tlima with the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe has remained I tact for over 500 years. All is possible with God.
They could build a battleship with the amount of wood from that cross they have recovered.
if all the bits of the 'true cross'''' were joined together you could build chatres cathedral, or a cross nobody could carry = power pylon size
If you have faith, no need for relics
It's inspiring...not required or needed.
Never underestimate the mental gymnastic abilities of theists when it come to their religion.
The tablet would only be 300 years old, not 2000 years old when Helena found it?
The part that requires the most scrutiny in my opinion is the acquisition of the crosses originally. Many people were crucified and I’d think the last thing someone would save is a tool of execution. Do people save ropes from hangings or axes from veheadibgs? You’d think they wouldn’t and how would they have taken it?
Actually people DID save the rope from hangings, it was thought to bring luck...
Also, locks of hair and such.... handkerchiefs dipped in blood from beheadings...
Most of them found out to be BS though. But they did keep Cromwell's head.
Maybe, though I would think once the big nails have been hammered through the wrists and heel and through the wood I don't know if it could be used a second time if there's now a hole where the new nails would need to go?
From what I remember reading about the sample taken for carbon dating from the shroud was from the area of the shroad that was repaired back in that date after the damage. If that is the case why have they not returned to test the rest of it ? I dont think they want to know what the true results would be. It would raise alot of questions.
Helena: " These are pieces of the true cross. How do you know they are? Because I said they are."
"Yes, but how do you know?"
"...execute this one!"
😅
Do the fairy godmother's wand next, and I'd like to see Sauron on the list. Not to mention Goofy's shoes.
Ever see the cool documentey on the search for who your real dad is? Here's a hint, it can't be every guy in the bar your mom stays at every weekend.
Except everything you have listed is fictious but Jesus Christ is real. He was God's son born of a virgin. He was innocent but crucified to save us from our sins. He rose from the dead after 3 days. He ascended into Heaven.
1:19 So the picture that’s being presented for ur mind to see . The curiousity ur mind projects and emotionally seeks within.. so my translation to this is this: even if it wasn’t the fact that the thought of the code of truth is being even projected and drives u in curiosity = the presence of the Holy Spirit is in your presence. … amen❤❤❤
As an artist for 39 years and graduated of the Art Institute of Houston, I totally agree with hand writing analysis. You can't fake change. And time changes. So does writing habits and styles.
The type of wood from that region that was readily available and the wet climate it was buried in makes perfect sense. What's embedded in that cross and wood would show the soil of that area which is distinct compared to other regions too.
Trees have rings and history.
The U.S., Russia, China, Venezuela have uranium in soil. Thats how you can tell what bomb was set off by the region and the signature of the radiation. Radiation cardon dating is fact. You can't change time and writing styles and tell me that's fake. 💯
A piece of old wood with an inscription scratched into it is not sufficient proof !😂
@starspike509 if you sign your checks and don't want your personal identity stolen it is lol🤣
@@troyheffernan1261, Gotta love your mental gymnastics regarding the wood being real. As an artist you should know there are ways to forge things so they appear older than what they actually are. You should also know writing styles can be copied regardless of the Era they are from.
In medieval times there were so many bits of "wood of the true cross" that you could have built a house from them. Most of those bits were said to be taken from the actual cross which was discovered by the mother of Emperor Constantine in 326 AD.
As for the SHROUD OF TURIN. THE SAMPLE TAKEN WAS OF A REPAIR THAT WAS ADDED IN THE later century in France where the Church that guarded it was set a fire and burned but the SHROUD WAS SAVED AND REPAIRED with new cloth of the time period.
HELLO,,, IF YOU AND I KNOW THAT, THEN WHAT IT WRONG WITH THE
PRODUCERS OF THIS, SO CALLED INVESTIGATION ?????????
So true. Do you know if they retested it with a piece of material further into the shroud?
@@ChelseaJadeCNot yet, because this would be DESTRUCTIVE analysis and the new owners would have to approve that. That said, the SHROUD has been dated by other means (FAR INFRARED SPECTROSCOPY was done nondestructively in the CENTER of the SHROUD containing the image and it confirmed a date when JESUS CHRIST lived).
I am am expert in ionizing radiation detection and the particles that created the SHROUD IMAGE are so unique they could only be reproduced in the 1980s by high energy charged particle accelerators. The SHROUD IMAGE is miraculous without question and as an expert in ionizing radiation detection I can confirm this fact!!
@@ChelseaJadeC No one has been able to get one. It took months of arguing over what they got last time.
@@debbibowen they don't want the truth revealed
Great documentary as always
13:50 Christopher Nolan batman music...
I was thinking more along the lines of part of the sign to Noah's park!
Interesting...
Helena was nothing else than a naive person. Living in the noble bubble travelling the middle east being robbed everywhere she goes by strangers saying they posses something saint ... All this history is very controversial.
There is that problem, she wasn't an expert on 1st centuy Jewish customs and culture, so unless she took an expert with her it would be difficult to know for sure what was legitimate and what wasn't. I wouldn't have a clue. She probably believed God would help guide her.
"A forger would not make such a mistake" 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Wood was a rare commodity in Judea, back than... Brought from Lebanon or farther... It is more likely the horizontal ledge of the cross was waaaaay shorter.
In innocent's abroad Mark Twain observed there were so many pieces of the true cross you could rebuild it.
If they’d really found this stuff
Do you really think they’d hack it up
After digging it up and finding it all in one piece!
They did with their saints, their attitudes were quite different to modern attitudes to conserving and preserving important historical objects. They were even happy to rip down the old vatican to build a new one. It was all about allowing the various churches across Europe to have a share.
Not likely but video and production is good.
Eyeroll......false prophets everywhere....jeezzzz
This is the problem when a historian sets out to prove or disprove something. A historian should just be lead by the evidence.....
Where was it found?
Confirmation Bias is strong with that on.
If it's authentic, then maybe it's a part of the original cross upon which King Izas Manu of Edessa (the Nazarene Leader of the Jewish Revolt) was crucified and then taken down before his death by Josephus circa AD 69 (in our modern calendar).
I thought it said Jesus by name?
Romans crosses were busy maintaining order in Judea. Probably wore out, then remainants went into a cooking fire.
Short answer, no. Long answer, no. Fools
So which true cross did the Crusaders lose in the cataclysmic battle loss at Hattin in 1187 ? So many crosses & so many bones of Saints it's hard to keep track tbh.
No Roman administrator would have had the label written in Hebrew. He would have it written in a language most people would understand: Aramaic.
Correct. Or possibly Latin? But would the populace even be literate enough even to read it?
It was supposed to have been made by Pilot sarcastically.When the Jews complained that he carved king of the Jews the Pharisees complained and pilot told them basically to F off.
Of course they would- The rabbis, scribes and Pharisees studied Hebrew for divine worship in the Temple and the synagogues- the whole point of the inscription was to mock Christ, a rabbi. Most of the Eastern Mediterranean knew Greek, traded in Greek and travelled using Greek so this inscription makes perfect sense
@@josi4251 The greatest literacy would have been in Greek. Latin for the army clerks. Hebrew - a waste of time.
@@MsMike651true, but not sarcastically, I think it was a jab at the pharasiees since he didn't want to do it
A famous man once said "There are enough pieces of the 'true cross' to build a Ship of the line". Also Four Churches have "the Skull of John the Baptist" (The Pope declared ALL of them true) INDEED! if he had 4 heads, perhaps all the people came to see him for reasons other to be baptized. (I'd like to see THAT too ;) )
The Catholic church also claims to have the foreskin of Jesus. And in 4,5 churches at the same time.
Vilken lyd lagde verdens første menske på jordkloden?
I’ve got the entire thing in my living room. I made a coffee table out of it.
They should try dendrochronology because it's a wooden artifact.
but the Bible says that Pilate had the text let written, not chiseled into wood. wood was very rare in Jerusalem, it is a desert landscape. so it is more likely that it was written on a paper/papyrus. on a chisel wood it is not easy to read the text from the distance. Also the priests requested from Pilatus that he should correct the text into: "he claimed to be the King of the Jews", which Pilate declined. of course a correction cannot made into a chiseled message. so i really think that it was written on paper. and honestly, i cannot imagine that a roman writer wrote the text wrong backwards and continue to wrote in the false way, they were experts in that.
The Man Hessmann is correct about this scenario that writing styles change and the period of the style of writing on the relics is of the First Century and the People of the NINTH CENTURY did not know of this scenario because the scientific literature was not available! If you lived in the NINTH CENTURY you only knew about that era of writing style and not of the ancient past periods. Because the study of this science was not created yet. To the people of the NINTH CENTURY it was a mystery!
Vill verdens første menske på jordkloden vere verdens siste menske som dør på jordkloden?
With wood being organic....how would it not have rotted or become petrified?
Besides, I thought the sign above his head read. I'm Nailed Right In lol
17:20 , whats growing on dudes chin???
A really ugly beard?
Bad shave job ,real bad 😂
The nails st helena spoke of Re in the shroud of turin. So this cannot be so.
Why would the Romans bury the three crosses? They would recycle them for the next crucifixion. Iron was in short supply so any nails they could pull out the would and use them again.
Probably made a copy because the old one rotted away.
Since the writing analysis and the carbon dating disagree, why didn't they examine both methods to see what errors could have caused the disagreement?
Why didn't Helena travel by sea?
She probably did. It would be easier to transport heavy goods home by sea than land.
I don't remember any mention of St Helena finding the titulus from the Cross on the occasion when she is said to have discovered the True Cross. I'm Catholic and am not familiar with this particular relic, though I have seen and venerated small slivers of wood which are taken from what tradition says is the True Cross. The point is we venerate the saving sacrifice of Jesus. There's nothing implausible at at all about a piece of wood being 2000 years old especially if it had been indoors most of that time. I mean, besides the wooden letters found near Hadrian's wall even the Dead Sea Scrolls are 2000 years old and they are papyrus or leather. It does not make sense to scoff at the possibility of wood surviving. Though that does not mean that this item was from Jesus. A genuine investigation of its age would look at whether tree ring data could be gathered from it (maybe not), what species, and carbon dating.
Yes studying things like the wood itself would give a further idea if it is possible . Is it a wood that was in Jerusalem in that period ? If it isn't or is would further indicate if the carbon 14 date might indeed be questioned or should be accepted.
Why do you venerate anything, or anyone, for that matter, aside from Christ Himself? Even on the slim possibility that any piece survived, it does not make that piece any more powerful than any other piece of wood. I will tell you what it does do. It causes people to turn it and all the other relics into an idol. Hopefully, you know how God feels about idols. He is not pleased when people worship idols instead of Him, and that is exactly what people do with relics. They do the same with these "saints", who were regular people like you and I. Sainthood has been twisted into something that resembles nothing that is found in the Bible. The catholic method of becoming one does not exist in the Bible. Part of this method involves one having been dead for a certain number of years. This is a direct contradiction of what is found in Scripture. For example, in many of his letters, Paul wrote, "To the saints at (insert town)." He refers to living people, not dead. To put it plainly, a saint is merely another name for a Christian. It means nothing more special than that. Paul even had to tell some people of his day not to worship him, that he was not a god but a man, like them. Yet today, people worship him, or perhaps rather his statues, and pray to him rather than to God directly, doing the very thing he said not to.
I truly hope you study your Bible to see whether the things catholicism teaches are true. I agree that it would be amazing to see or even touch something from biblical times that was connected to Jesus or any other figure. Yet I also know the danger, which is why I hope such things are never found. King Hezekiah had this exact problem with the Bronze Serpent that Moses made. People were worshipping it as an idol, and so he had it destroyed to prevent further sin.
@@saraross8396 Seriously? You don't understand the difference between the term "venerate" and "worship"? It's commonplace in English that any dignified human being might be called "venerable" because it means worthy of respect. I WORSHIP God alone. To quote myself above, "The point is we venerate the saving sacrifice of Jesus." You come across as having been trained that Catholics "worship" something other than GOD which is a lie someone told you.
@@saraross8396 Seriously, being ignorant about other people's beliefs or misunderstanding others' words and jumping all over them based on gross misunderstanding does not help yourself or others. I don't know why it continually astonishes me but it's clear that some protestant churches have a whole "doctrine" of lies about Catholicism and they believe fake information designed to prejudice them against Catholic Christians and the Catholic Faith and sow confusion. It's grossly dishonest. If you want to know what Catholics believe then go to actual Catholic sources like the Catechism of the Catholic Church where you can actually get a straight answer.
Great ideas within this answer
.
When you have to ask, you know it isn't.
What I question is Helena finding the 3 crosses buried. They would not have taken Jesus down and the other two and buried the crosses on the spot. Maybe it was done at a later time but it seems more likely someone would have hidden them away before that.
On the other hand who says carbon dating has proven reliable for all the other things in history? Maybe it’s wrong on all historic things. Carbon dating was proven invalid for the shroud of Turin.
Do you think we're stupid? Just because Helena claimed to have found the relics, that doesn't mean she didn't invent them or elaborate them. This whole programme is an exploration of human gullibility, starting with that of the researcher who begins with a preconceived idea of what we will find.
AND THEN, THIS LED TO THAT, AND THAT LED TO THAT, AND THAT LED TO THAT, AND
THAT, LED TO ??????????? >>> WHEWWWWW ! ! ! ! ,,,,,,,,GET IT ????????
if one believes, one needs no proof. And if one does not believe, all the proof will not convince...
That's not how proof works. Proof keeps being true even if you don't believe in it.
When one believes, no amount of evidence from scientific testing will be accepted.
@@juliantherussian7752 the sun comes up tomorrow and it will be day after night. any proof? there is not.but i know it will be like that. every day.
Belief doesn’t make something true. Belief changes your perception and it also makes it easier to make the evidence unintentionally fit the facts, even when they don’t.
@@franklulatowskijr.6974 In the German langauge there is a proverb -
Gladden heisst nicht wissen-,
freely translated
- Believing does mean one knows nothing -...
Guess mr. Hesseman didn't account for the possibility that this sort of thing could have been faked somewere between the execution of Jesus the jew and Helena's arrival in Jerusalem for one. Or the fact that the church might have created a replica of the titula brought back by Helena at some point in the medieval period. Replicas of historical objects are hardly a new concept after all. And replicas tend to be mistaken for the real deal by most who are not experts in what ever historical object it is that has been replicated. Replicas are also often the basis for making deliberate fakes by people who stand to gain from forgery. Helena might have geuinely though she had found the real deal not realizing she might have been the victim of a forgery. The man she had tortured for information might have either mistaken an ancient replica or deliberate fake for the real deal aswell thinking he actually knew the location of the real cross, not realizing it was not authentic. Or, maybe more likely, he was a bit pissed for beeing tortured so he gave Helena the location of were he new someone had buried some fakes (maybe in an attempt at getting rid of the evidence of their own forgery) just to either make the torture stop and/or as a bit of payback for beeing tortured. After all it is a well known fact that information gained by torture usually tend not to be very reliable or trustworthy. People tend to end up telling their torturers what ever they think they want to hear just to make the torture stop. Another thing mr. Hesseman seems to have been ignorant of is the fact that writing something on paper or parchment with penn and ink is rather different than carving letters, words and sentences into wood, bone, stone or metal. I've carved alot of letters and runes into wood over the years so I do have some personal experience on the subject. Doing so without the aid of modern equipment for the job, only using a handheld knife is alot more difficult and usually never turn out as nice as writing with penn and paper. And what ever letters, words or sentences you carve never look the same as your regular penn and paper handwriting. The result is usually always alot cruder. Round shapes are especially difficult to get right and good looking when carving them with only a knife and no special tools for the job. Carved words and letters are also easy to replicate as you can draw them onto the material first and then simply follow the lines when carving. Then again faking handwriting on on paper with pen and ink isn't that difficult either. Point at getting at here is three lines of Hebrew, Greek and Latin text carved into a piece of wood would not be that difficult to replicate for a medieval person with a knife. And even if they were won't actually replicating an older titula, but just simply carving it freehand the result wouldn't look that different from the same words carved into a piece of wood during any other period of history. There simply wouldn't be the same amount of variation in shape, form and style of the letters carved as with various styles of handwriting and fonts made on paper with penn and ink through out the centuries. So his whole comparative paleography argument kind of falls short in alot of ways. That fact here is that mr. Hesseman simply follows his wishfull thinking. The did not set out to prove the true origins of this relic. He set out to prove his own wishfull thinking to be true. His own strong bias, he wants the relic to be the real deal, is so strong that he will automatically discount any method of science or any piece of evidence that does not support his wish for the relic to be authentic. His reasons for this wishfull thinking is most likely based on his personal religious beliefs and not an objective interest in historical artifact or "biblical" history. Like any other religious person his own blind faith prevents him from beeing objective, let alone beeing able to accept actual scientific facts that goes against his beliefs.
If iam right there wasn't much timber around in them days. So if it didn't get used as timber building will it would have been Burt cooking someone's breakfast or as ashes used for warming up.
Nor så første menskest på jordkloden ett annet menneske ?
Eastern Orthodox rules!
That is ambiguous.
The cross on which Jesus died was not used once, it was used before and after Jesus many times, even the nails were straightened and resused.
Some major dyslexia going on in the carver on this relic. Carbon dated to ~1000 AD so unless our calendar is way way off, no. I wanted to know the results of the plaques dug up in Britain. The Shroud had people arguing that a corner of the cloth had been rewoven by nuns to repair a fraying corner. That corner is from where the carbon dating samples were removed, they contend. If the pieces of the cross were soaking in a cistern for a long time wre being dried up then dug up in the 300s, who knows if that might have skewed the dating by 600 or more years. It seems unlikely, one would still expect a much earlier dating than 1000+/- years.
Likely the cross was a Tau cross. A mortice and tenon held a cross beam to a permanently placed upright. A removable peg or nail held the cross beam on the upright beam with the tenon. It was likely a short upright. The feet were nailed to the sides of the upright through the ankle. The knees of the crucified would likely touch the ground. They weren't designed to be comfortable. They placing of the nailed person on the tenon wasn't designed to be difficult to do, two guys would lift the nailed one onto the tennoned upright, secured with the locking peg or nail, probably jutting out to make it difficult for the crucified to keep their head and neck straight up and impede their attempt to lift themselves to breath and ease their knees.
The nails went through the base of the wrist severing the tendons not allowing the index and middle fingers to curl in. Hence the hand gesture of blessing, which in fact was a result of the injury.
why was the wording written backwards??
why not use wood rings to tell when cross was made
By the time of Constantine I doubt it would exist. Was probably gone within 5 years of crucifixion in a bonfire.
I've seen enough true crime documentaries to know that any test with "comparative" in the name spells trouble.
good as supplementary or supporting test/study but not the ONLY test to rely on...