I think one of the challenges of HF is that is very set on trying to give you the experience of the complexity of space travel. I think that the core complexity of the game is the ship/travel mechanism. Also the love of the map in HF and it commitment to accurately show you what’s in our solar system is the most beautiful part of it.
It was a really great video, I am in the middle of a trade getting SpaceCorp and I wanted to know exactly the feel of the game compared to High Frontier, a game I have and love a lot!!! And your comparison just sinergised very well with how I feel playing High Frontier, specially the story and accomplishments we make at the end of the game in exchange of burned brain cells!!! I think I will enjoy SpaceCorp, but more than that, I will be able to play this game with more "casual" players that don't desire playing such a heavy game as High Frontier in a theme that I enjoy very much! Thanks for the video!!!
I really enjoyed this. HF isn't for me, but this makes me with I was the type of player that could get through it. Feels like space. Thanks for the comparison review, you have a new subscriber.
this video has helped me make up my mind on whether I want to try the schizoid space game(hf4a). space corp has been a recurring game with me and my friends for a while now and we've been wanting to take the realism up a notch or 2-3 in the case of hf4a. We're ready to break out the graphing calculators and math our way to space success
Great to see! It's an incredibly satisfying game, once you get through all the learning hurdles. It takes a lot of time to grasp, but once it clicks, it's amazing!
Very good idea for a video! I'd probably enjoy HF, but after watching this comparison I'm relieved I purchased S Corp as it will be easier to play with our friends! Keep up the good work!
I honestly don't know how HF was a success. Don't get me wrong, I have it, and all the modules (expansions) for it. But to find enough people there to buy it to make it a commercial success is hard already... and have those people have enough friends that like the same complexity of games... exponentially harder. I have never gotten people to play it, for most of them I do not even dare to take it out. Solo or multi-hand, sure. But if you want something to play many times with your friends, skip High Frontier. As I said, I love the game, when you get the hang of it is awesome... but you won't play it with friends a lot (if at all) and it is not fun in a conventional sense, it is more like the feeling you get after a good workout - satisfaction and relief mixed with pain and exhaustion.
Own both games, but have only played SpaceCorp (solo). It definitely doesn't feel as tight as Butterfield's other solo designs, but it's still enjoyable. Once I've finished my current Mage Knight and Spirit Island addiction, I'll have to learn High Frontier 😊 Edit: BTW Nathan, I'd still love a High Frontier play though vid
See how you go with the default rules, but I like to modify the 'auction' system so you have a broader range of technologies to choose from. When playing solo they don't cycle as much as when you're playing with other people.
I'm back a year later, have learned the game and love it. However a couple of things i've noticed/discovered for solo play are: 1) In the living rulebook, the rules for the solo Altruism scenario have been changed to allow the gaining of supports when taking a card during auction (just like in the multiplayer game). You just have to pay 1 aqua per additional support. This cycles the market a lot more frequently and also makes rocket building and card selling a lot faster. 2) Using the new module 0 solitaire political mat (and rules) included in module 4 make the solitaire game so much better. I'd never play solo without it now @@WiseGuyHistory
Great comparison reviews. I have both these space games and you're right on target with both. I'd be interested how you compare these games with Andrew Rader's Stellar Horizons as well. Cheers.
I get the distinct impression that High Frontier is meant to be an edutainment game. It is as much a learning tool as it is a game which informs a lot of the design choices that it makes.
Yeah that's pretty common across most Eklund designs, he's aiming to inform/education. At the same time though, there's a lot of satisfaction in pulling off a remarkable voyage across the solar system! In a way, it's like solving a complex logic puzzle that you've taken an hour or more to put together!
@@WiseGuyHistory My kinda game design honestly. One of the reasons I like Advanced Squad Leader, it let's me learn more about what went on on the ground without having bullets whizzing by my ear as I lay in a foxhole
I really enjoy this series! This is a bit of a random suggestion but I’ve been thinking of doing a similar video covering Hearts and Minds and fire in the lake? Have you played the games? I’d love to collaborate on a video with you discussing the games.
I see someone selling space corp with expansion for $50 cad and he can’t sell it for a year. I found the 3 boards way too long to play, and way too much luck with card draw.
It's disappointing to hear that the HF solo experience is lacklustre. The game fascinates me but I'd never get anyone else to play it! Have you played Stellar Horizons? I'd be interested on your take in comparison to these two. Thank you for the video.
A friend had a copy of HF that we were playing, and I loved it so much that I bought my own copy specifically to play solo. My main concern with the solo version is that the technologies [rocket parts] don't cycle through fast, so you don't get much variation or choice in what parts to take, which really limits your freedom of choice. But, you could easily fix this with a minor variation.
@@WiseGuyHistory Yup, you can always add some house rules for that, like cycle the decks after every year, or after every throw of the dice (for what ever reason) cycle the deck that matches the number (there are 6 decks and you are using 1d6). Deck cycling rule change does not destroy the game balance in solo that much. One rule I did not like is auction in general. In multiplayer, you are just shuffling the existing aqua around, production of which is slow anyway. So we had a gentleman rule - if you auction, you bid 0 and no one jumps in. Basically, it is your move, you auction/research, take the card(s) currently on offer and that's it. Lowers the frustration, makes more sense than actual rule, and significantly increases the pace of the game, especially early on. And for HF, any pace increase is good. So yeah, change the rules. If it hits all players equally and does not impact gameplay itself that much, awesome!
Thanks for the comparison review. I really enjoy SpaceCorp and was never interested much in High Frontier due to its infamous difficulty level. Have you tried Stellar Horizons? How do they compare?😀
I backed a kickstarter of what was supposed to be the definitive edition of HF, only for Phil to bring out another one. That irritated me quite frankly. [EDIT] I subscribed today and noticed that you have 3.33K subscribers. I keep seeing 333 on clocks etc. Very weird.
I KS'd the last two editions of HF. Was going to just get the update pack for the previous one, but after looking at the price of the update kit I figured I'd just get the new set for a little extra. I appreciate the option of update kits in games, but the pricing of them is generally a large chunk of just buying a complete set. Unfortunately, the new version trend of re-releases, within a few years of the previous, has been becoming more common lately. In which your original copy quickly becomes out-dated, although still quite playable. My copies of GMT's Wing Leader series is a prime example. It's begun to give me a "wait and see" mentality with some game companies regarding 1st edition KS/P500/pre-orders. If there could be a 2nd edition coming out in another two or three years, then why bother with the first? I don't want to think that way, but it's a consideration born of past experiences. It's started replacing the "fear of missing out" which was more prevalent years ago when reprints and new editions were fewer and farther between, if ever.
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I think one of the challenges of HF is that is very set on trying to give you the experience of the complexity of space travel. I think that the core complexity of the game is the ship/travel mechanism. Also the love of the map in HF and it commitment to accurately show you what’s in our solar system is the most beautiful part of it.
It was a really great video, I am in the middle of a trade getting SpaceCorp and I wanted to know exactly the feel of the game compared to High Frontier, a game I have and love a lot!!! And your comparison just sinergised very well with how I feel playing High Frontier, specially the story and accomplishments we make at the end of the game in exchange of burned brain cells!!! I think I will enjoy SpaceCorp, but more than that, I will be able to play this game with more "casual" players that don't desire playing such a heavy game as High Frontier in a theme that I enjoy very much! Thanks for the video!!!
You still are no.1 channel on these comparison videos, more thank you
Thanks! Much appreciated!
Keep up the great videos! You are easily the best board game reviewer on TH-cam right now.
Thanks mate, really appreciate it! I'm finally finding some time to get to these games!
John Butterfield games and I go back to the late 1970s. Thanks for the great review, compare, and contrast.
Thanks Nick! Yep, I'm a huge Butterfield fan!
I really enjoyed this. HF isn't for me, but this makes me with I was the type of player that could get through it. Feels like space. Thanks for the comparison review, you have a new subscriber.
this video has helped me make up my mind on whether I want to try the schizoid space game(hf4a). space corp has been a recurring game with me and my friends for a while now and we've been wanting to take the realism up a notch or 2-3 in the case of hf4a. We're ready to break out the graphing calculators and math our way to space success
Great to see! It's an incredibly satisfying game, once you get through all the learning hurdles. It takes a lot of time to grasp, but once it clicks, it's amazing!
I'd also recommend Leaving Earth as another great space exploration game
I've got a nice queue of space-themed games I'd like to play!
Very good idea for a video!
I'd probably enjoy HF, but after watching this comparison I'm relieved I purchased S Corp as it will be easier to play with our friends!
Keep up the good work!
I honestly don't know how HF was a success. Don't get me wrong, I have it, and all the modules (expansions) for it. But to find enough people there to buy it to make it a commercial success is hard already... and have those people have enough friends that like the same complexity of games... exponentially harder. I have never gotten people to play it, for most of them I do not even dare to take it out. Solo or multi-hand, sure. But if you want something to play many times with your friends, skip High Frontier. As I said, I love the game, when you get the hang of it is awesome... but you won't play it with friends a lot (if at all) and it is not fun in a conventional sense, it is more like the feeling you get after a good workout - satisfaction and relief mixed with pain and exhaustion.
Own both games, but have only played SpaceCorp (solo). It definitely doesn't feel as tight as Butterfield's other solo designs, but it's still enjoyable.
Once I've finished my current Mage Knight and Spirit Island addiction, I'll have to learn High Frontier 😊
Edit: BTW Nathan, I'd still love a High Frontier play though vid
If you work through the scenarios for HF, you gradually build the knowledge of gameplay up; it's really fascinating!
@@WiseGuyHistory I'll only be playing solo. Hopefully it's still an enjoyable experience
See how you go with the default rules, but I like to modify the 'auction' system so you have a broader range of technologies to choose from. When playing solo they don't cycle as much as when you're playing with other people.
I'm back a year later, have learned the game and love it. However a couple of things i've noticed/discovered for solo play are:
1) In the living rulebook, the rules for the solo Altruism scenario have been changed to allow the gaining of supports when taking a card during auction (just like in the multiplayer game). You just have to pay 1 aqua per additional support. This cycles the market a lot more frequently and also makes rocket building and card selling a lot faster.
2) Using the new module 0 solitaire political mat (and rules) included in module 4 make the solitaire game so much better. I'd never play solo without it now @@WiseGuyHistory
@@WiseGuyHistoryWhat is the variant you use to cycle more the auction deck?
Great comparison reviews. I have both these space games and you're right on target with both. I'd be interested how you compare these games with Andrew Rader's Stellar Horizons as well. Cheers.
As far I know, Stellar Horizons it's a balance between these two titles. But I would love to hear your opinion.
Great video. Thank you
Hey nice vid!
HF4all for me! You definitly have to do scomplete solo playtrough!
I get the distinct impression that High Frontier is meant to be an edutainment game. It is as much a learning tool as it is a game which informs a lot of the design choices that it makes.
Yeah that's pretty common across most Eklund designs, he's aiming to inform/education. At the same time though, there's a lot of satisfaction in pulling off a remarkable voyage across the solar system! In a way, it's like solving a complex logic puzzle that you've taken an hour or more to put together!
@@WiseGuyHistory My kinda game design honestly. One of the reasons I like Advanced Squad Leader, it let's me learn more about what went on on the ground without having bullets whizzing by my ear as I lay in a foxhole
I really enjoy this series! This is a bit of a random suggestion but I’ve been thinking of doing a similar video covering Hearts and Minds and fire in the lake? Have you played the games? I’d love to collaborate on a video with you discussing the games.
I haven't play Hearts and Minds, but have played [and love] Fire in the Lake [but it's a friends copy]. Happy to help however I can!
Good comparison
HF is too complex for us so we'll stay with SCorp - T for the video - GG
I see someone selling space corp with expansion for $50 cad and he can’t sell it for a year. I found the 3 boards way too long to play, and way too much luck with card draw.
It's disappointing to hear that the HF solo experience is lacklustre. The game fascinates me but I'd never get anyone else to play it!
Have you played Stellar Horizons? I'd be interested on your take in comparison to these two.
Thank you for the video.
A friend had a copy of HF that we were playing, and I loved it so much that I bought my own copy specifically to play solo. My main concern with the solo version is that the technologies [rocket parts] don't cycle through fast, so you don't get much variation or choice in what parts to take, which really limits your freedom of choice. But, you could easily fix this with a minor variation.
I like the CEO scenario with HF4all with politics solo added on BGG.
@@WiseGuyHistory Yup, you can always add some house rules for that, like cycle the decks after every year, or after every throw of the dice (for what ever reason) cycle the deck that matches the number (there are 6 decks and you are using 1d6). Deck cycling rule change does not destroy the game balance in solo that much.
One rule I did not like is auction in general. In multiplayer, you are just shuffling the existing aqua around, production of which is slow anyway. So we had a gentleman rule - if you auction, you bid 0 and no one jumps in. Basically, it is your move, you auction/research, take the card(s) currently on offer and that's it. Lowers the frustration, makes more sense than actual rule, and significantly increases the pace of the game, especially early on. And for HF, any pace increase is good.
So yeah, change the rules. If it hits all players equally and does not impact gameplay itself that much, awesome!
Thanks for the comparison review. I really enjoy SpaceCorp and was never interested much in High Frontier due to its infamous difficulty level. Have you tried Stellar Horizons? How do they compare?😀
No, it's another that's been on my wishlist for a while. A friend has pre-ordered Stellaris and we're looking forward to that!
@@WiseGuyHistory Looking forwards to your thoughts on this one. It's on my shelf punched and clipped but still unplayed.
I backed a kickstarter of what was supposed to be the definitive edition of HF, only for Phil to bring out another one. That irritated me quite frankly. [EDIT] I subscribed today and noticed that you have 3.33K subscribers. I keep seeing 333 on clocks etc. Very weird.
Yeah there's been a few now, I can understand the frustration.
I KS'd the last two editions of HF. Was going to just get the update pack for the previous one, but after looking at the price of the update kit I figured I'd just get the new set for a little extra. I appreciate the option of update kits in games, but the pricing of them is generally a large chunk of just buying a complete set. Unfortunately, the new version trend of re-releases, within a few years of the previous, has been becoming more common lately. In which your original copy quickly becomes out-dated, although still quite playable. My copies of GMT's Wing Leader series is a prime example. It's begun to give me a "wait and see" mentality with some game companies regarding 1st edition KS/P500/pre-orders. If there could be a 2nd edition coming out in another two or three years, then why bother with the first? I don't want to think that way, but it's a consideration born of past experiences. It's started replacing the "fear of missing out" which was more prevalent years ago when reprints and new editions were fewer and farther between, if ever.