Today E-thin is discussing Wuthering Waves 2.1 Kuro Games needs to fix Echo EXP in 2.1 ASAP 2nd CHannel / @moree-thin My twitch is / e_thin ALL LINKS! linktr.ee/e_thin #wutheringwaves #wuwacreator #wuwacontest20
get double crits double atk only for 1 stat at minimum roll most people would say this is good but the minority of min-maxxers would go "ooooh, should be better" Not really painful on my end farming 3 costs, since I've had it much worse in Epic 7 But yes got the same sentiment as other people on the sealed tubes
Yeah the hyperbole doesn't help. I've spent 3 months farming 1 domain in HSR to min max a set and never got a good speed boot. It should be improved but lying doesn't help anybody and just makes you easy to discredit.
Considering the new permanent ellusive realm game mode seems to be creating a new method to farm specific echo sets it seems based on, that might resolve it a bit. One of my current annoying things is nightmare TD bosses and waiting for overlord boss TDs to spam them is a bit annoying, since updating certain echo builds are a bit of a pain when doing 1+ minute waits even when rotating between 2 different bosses. chasing specific main/sub stat echoes are sort of not as bad if you can go between multiple spawn spots to get a buncha them. The whole 14 (or was it 21?) weekly reset echo pick ups during the last ellusive realms was kinda nice though for a good introductory start of chasing. Now if only they can restrict certain echo sets from rolling certain 3 costs, since it makes little sense for any of the other 5 elements to be rolled for a frosty resolve echo set which only benefits glacio builds anyway.
Bro never played Epic Seven... Try farming a viable set in that game and you're up against literal paid staff dedicated to farming accounts 24/7. Let's not even mention FGO...
@@YoichiMutou they are once per day though, since they don't respawn until reset. But yes, it would create a possibility to degeneratly farm daily every echo on the maps, so i can se why Kuro doesn't do it.
@@rayzen119 Still only like 1% to 5% of player base would actually do that, most of the time i get max echoes capacity i just infinitely merge them from shits to shit in hopes of getting echoes that are on set with the damage on set, like midnight veil and havoc
@@ZeHoovy2595 ofc, but the cries would come from those that "feel forced" to grind them every day like that. I wouldn't have a problem, it's on me to farm how much i want, but apparently others need babysitting and can't control themselves.
@ I honestly dont think that'd be the case, just because the grind would be like 3 times faster, instead of spending about a week to get decent or good echoes for a character it would take about 2 or 3 days
okay so maybe im just dented but i really don’t think wuwa’s echo system is that bad. the only change i would like to see is tacet fields dropping a few more tubes and tuners. In wuwa, my dpses on average take ~3 weeks to farm for if i solely focus on them. the only other gacha gearing system im familiar with is Genshin’s, and in Genshin it takes me 6+ months to get the same artifact quality (right mainstat + double crit). also i had like 500+ gold tubes and 5000+ tuners going into 2.0 and I didn’t even farm tacet fields like crazy or login daily. i just bought them whenever i could from event/hologram/IR shops bc ppl online said that’s the resource most likely to be the limiting reagent when it comes to gearing. i feel like we gotta classify the feedback by types of players because imo if you’re trying to min max echoes to have like 4+ useful substats, you should know you’re crazy for that and not expect to have a completed build by the end of the patch. similarly if you never farm a single overworld mob or boss outside the guaranteed 15 you shouldnt expect to get a bunch of correct mainstat echoes to try and level by the end of the patch. imo if you do that you should expect your build to take ~2 months if thats how you farm.
I feel like your quite lucky, i have been farming for xangli yao since his release and the best i could get was 2.2k attack with 66/202crit. He is currently not usable in any endgame content because he still lacks a lot of damage.
the only issue wuwa has when it comes to echoes is a bunch of players who think they should be able to level and tune every echoe they got from wasting time on farming the overworld. people don't understand that all gachas limit gear progression - most gachas do this by giving far less gear than wuwa, wuwa does it via echo xp and tuners. kuro doesn't want that people are able to level and tune every echoe they get from the overworld also farming the overworld is not even necessary. the last time i wasted time on overworld grind was in 1.1 and yet i was somehow able to get carlotta to about 80%cr and about 300% CDMG with just doing my daily tacet fields and merging all unwanted echoes. with just farming tacet fields i am still able to get decent builds and never had any tuner or echoe XP issues. so yeah, i have no clue what people are doing to be honest
Saw this from another person but Tuners should be used for rerolling stats instead and stats should just be given at level up. Been putting this in feedback. Hopefully they’ll consider it
@@ironclad-m3q if u spend ur ressource smartly echo xp doesnt become the issue its the tuner that become one i have no shortage of echo xp but 0 tuners
Calling it the worst is a stretch. I have built both Carlotta and Zhezhi before Roccia came out and that's not possible in any other gacha for me. If anything I would slightly increase the echo tuner refund material, and add 5 to the daily missions reward.
Not a stretch, it’s completely incorrect I play or have played all 4 of the big gatchas (3 of hoyos and wuwa) HSR gives so much overcapped energy and it’s auto-farm and even then you can lose your mind trying just to get the right MAIN stat. Worse deal in Genshin, the worst of the bunch since you can’t even auto. Zzz isn’t too bad for still worse than wuwa. Wuwa gives you tons of morphable echoe, on set 3 cost boxes, and 15 guaranteed 4 costs a week. It’s by no stretch the worst to farm, he’s talking out of his ass Where he is correct is that the EXP is scarce, but not obtaining an echo itself. And you can clear endgame even if you have 2 shit rolls on every echo (speaking from experience early lol) People just want to hyper optimize which is fine, but it’s going to cost time and a lot of echoes will need to be scrapped doing the 5-15 rolling method
If they increase the amount of EXP we can get from Tacet Fields, they should bring back the double EXP event each week, I’ve been lucky with my stat pulls but then again I’m not min maxing the stats.
The biggest ball buster for me is 3-Costs. Getting a 3-Cost with the wrong element SUUUUCKS. Constantly getting Glacio Damage bonus on the Spectro set and Spectro Damage bonus on the Glacio set in tacet fields drives me crazy. Feels so much more like a waste of stamina compared to other games, since you're really there for the 3-Costs because 1-Costs are much more plentiful in the open world. At least an Atk% 3-Cost is rollable to hold you down in the meantime, compared to getting something that is completely worthless. I think making "On-Set" Elemental Damage Bonus/Atk%/Def%/HP% be the only things that can be rolled on 3-Costs in Tacet Fields is the play. And then have all stats be possible in the open world. It'll be a step in the right direction to make Tacet Fields more attractive while still having some RNG to it (even though characters can still use Atk%/Def%/HP% 3-Costs), and at the same time still leaving it possible to get lucky and get a good echo in the open world.
This so much, I don't care if the commenters here are saying the farming required isn't necessarily bad, you cannot justify telling me there is value for having a Havoc damage bonus roll on a Spectro set. The fact we have to spend time checking and removing the trash echoes is another time waster.
@@JeeTee-k7w yeah tacet fields gives so much 3 costs that those have been the easiet pieces to farm for me. 1 costs are so rare in tacet fields that farming in the overworld is the only way to farm them and the 20% drop rate is horrendous. Pretty sure the design of overworld exploration in Huanglong and Blackshores indirectly made people think farming 1 costs is easier. If they design future overworld exploration simiral to Rinascita, people would soon realize that 1 costs are the true enemies of farming lol
I always write on the survey that we're at an era that "Guarantees in the gacha system exist so why can't we have the same on gears? Why is it impossible for players to quantify how much time they will need to invest to get their BiS while it's possible to quantify how much money (or time if you save for more than a year) they will need to consume in order to get S6R5 characters?" I hope that when Kuro performs changes on the Echo system it's within the same mindset of convenience that they used for their gacha system (which can still be improved but is a start) - by having a fail-safe on the player to get full BiS that is progressed through time spent.
As a casual player, I feel like the echo system is great and you don’t have to put all you exp in one echo to see if it’s good or bad, the only improvement is to see the substats before you upgrade the echo
The issues with the echo system are only noticeable once you farm echoes enough. You probably haven’t reached that threshold. Had to spend a week farming 1.5 hours daily on cuddle wuddles for Carlotta (1 ATK% and 1 glacio%). Every day I got 5-6 havoc% midnight veils. But only 1-3 glacio% frosty resolves, and barely any on ATK%. Also spent 10-15 hours rotating between all the nightmare echoes, only to continue getting ones that constantly roll with bad main stats and substats. Spent ALL of my tuners to finally get double crits on each 4 cost echo. I only realised after pulling Roccia, that burning through my tuner reserves makes future echo farming absolutely horrible. From the 240 waveplates you get a day, you only get to roll 8 new substats. Call me “greedy and stupid”, but getting decent builds on your characters shouldn’t be this painful to achieve.
The issue is when you start too fine tune a set even for decent substat,not too mention 3cost elemental set with double crit is frustrating to farm(for example)
@@little_error295 I pretty much farm until I get double crit on each piece, w/ correct stat, set and 4 cost. So I’m not exactly a “min-maxer”. My luck has been bottom of the barrel since 2.0, which is why I’m so especially short on both XP and tuners. But yeah, what you said I pretty much agree with. If you’re satisfied with using some single crit echoes, the system doesn’t feel that bad. You’ll still be sitting on a bunch of honeymoon-phase rewards after all. But once you hit one of the 3 roadblocks (lack of echoes, XP, and *especially* tuners), the system feels not so great. For reference, I had enough XP to +20 all my echoes on Roccia straight away. But I only just got enough tuners to roll 5 subs *once* on each echo after 2.5 days worth of stamina. The 20 tuners you can get every 6 hours should be permanently tripled in my opinion.
@@GrGalan6464 the issue is people who don't understand that gear progression is limited on purpose in these gacha games. most gacha games do this by limiting the amount of gear you can get per day by adding energy cost to is. so similar to tacet fields in wuwa. e.g. in HSR using all your energy per day gives you 12 pieces of gear and at least 10 of them are crap, probably more than that in ZZZ using your 300 energy gives you about 10 pieces of gear, with again at least 90% being crap. wuwa softens this type of limit on gear progression by allowing overworld farming, but wuwa's limiting factor is echo XP and tuners and people who farm the overworld will never have enough, no matter how much tuners or echo XP they give. funny thing is: i did not waste my time on stupid overworld farming since version 1.0 and still got my carlotta build in week 1 with just the stuff i get from tacet fields and mergin echoes and she is at 76%CR and 310%CDMG.. i seriously have no clue what you people are doing
They should take that tuner materials out the game and increase echo exp reward instead, it's pointless to have those tuners especially in endgame I have over 3 to 4k and it feels like I'm never consuming any of it. Also they should add merge echo where you can transfer some of it substat when you use it to upgrade an echo.
Also they can add a new system where after data bank reaches like 24-25, you can get %10 drop rate of substat reroller when you capture an echo. We all brainstormed to think about these things within an hour, why kuro can't.
Because many people whale their way out of this problem in tacet field. Tacet field stayed horrendous because whales spend there non stop. Why fix it when they are milking whales there ?
its true that its boring to get the main stats, but for me the bigger problem was always and will always be Echo exp tube... everything else is a joke compared to that. What if i drop 2353 correct main stats if i can't roll them?
That's nightmare. Building Carlotta is kinda pain from my end cuz her 4 cost boss is dropping every main stats except these two: Crit rate/ crit dmg. Damn.
@@abdullamamun8812 well all i can say its.. keep farming, its not limited.. we all play the same game, it will drop that you need sooner or later. but as i said, sometimes i save 3 or 4 crit main stat one, and then they either roll shit or i don't have echo mats because im also building other characters.
Since when are you playing and how do you level echos? Echo exp is only a problem for new players and players that level wrong, over time this goes away and instead are limited by tuners. Though I agree both should get buffed as even when only farming tacet fields you slowly overcap on echos, tuners just need a bigger buff than tuners to be balanced with exp.
I think a form to the actual improve all the echo system is If they add a system like hsr relic crafting instead of the actual data merge, like select the set u want and give with random stats and also add something like the self-modeling resin for choose the main stat, and the wishful resin for substats, at less choose 2 or 3 substats, then with the echos xp problem I propose that you can use echoes as xp even when you are +0 to be able to level up other echoes and last remove the tuners completely. This way they would make it possible for you to grind infinite echoes if you want without having to spend waveplates
I'm honestly not expecting them to even address the issues with the echo system for a long while, or at least until a full year has passed. They did it with pgr to an extent, so it'll most likely happen here as well unless they get enough push back from the community.
I made the massive mistake of spending all my tuners on getting double crit on all my characters I use. Especially because of the release of nightmare echoes. This was a week before I pulled for Roccia. It puts you into echo purgatory. How you ration your echo exp literally doesn’t matter. You only get 8 substat rolls per day (20 tuners every 6 hours). Trying to get a *single* double crit echo is extremely painful.
Lets keep talking about ECHO SYSTEM until they fix it I love wuwa + i play daily since launch with 2 acc until this day But I'VE to be Objective! The echo system is just too grindy, time consuming, too painful.... We could solve it through the following solution for example: Just add "Precise Tuning" we deserve it They could still make us grind for echoes (though i don't know why they must) Let me tell u how, through 2 ways: 1- bring a precise-tuning's limited currency, 2- that "precise tuning" will require new "precise tuners" and an echo of the same variety + same main stat to use that currency. each time u try to use this currency (and you know how much time we'd need to grind to get such echoes)
The echo farming is only a problem in the beginning, once you finish building your echo set you'd passively gain good echo by just exploring and killing every TDs you encounter and farming Tacet field everyday. same with echo Exp and Tuners. I have finished building both my Zhezhi and Carlotta, and I am still left with 5.2k tuners, 550 gold exp, and 760 purple exp. your resources will accumulate over time. And this is me only having 1 hr of play time everyday coz I have work and shits. The echo system is nowhere far from perfect but it is engineered so that people have something to do after completing everything in the patch. This literally the same problem with people rushing to complete the TOAs and complaining why they can't do it knowing full well that their account aren't built for the end game yet. just play the game naturally, no need to rush.
this is a different but coexisting problem. Lack of replayable endgame content doesn't suddenly make a horrendous gear farming system good, that's just two coexisting problems that both needs to be worked on, not left alone to rot for good
My biggest problem with it is that before i can see if a piece is good i have to level it up to level 20 or sometimes 25. Which costs a lot of recources, and if that last roll is bad then it is just wasted. I would rather know what the substats are gonna be before leveling it up to level 25 and using 50 tuners on it.
i will die on the hill that the best way ever to solve echo farming, is by making monsters drop echo tubes.. there cannot be any better way , you WILL farm them cause you need them, and you WILL farm when you don't need them to level up the one you actually need, and if they roll like crap, you probably dropped new ones while farming for echo tubes. its the perfect cycle in my opinion.
My proposal to help with Echo System.(All accusations of secretly trying to sabotage will be ignored). 1. Create a Echo Sub-stat reroller 2. Can lock up to 3 sub-stats before reroll 3. Can reroll a echos substats only once 4. Rerolled echoes are marked as such 5. Reduced cost of waveplates for tacet fields
I totally agree that the system is annoying, but I genuinely cannot imagine them reworking it. If we all will be able to gear up in a few days, then what are we supposed to do with hundreds of echoes dropping from the open world? They can't just remove a heavily world integrated mechanic. All I can think of, is for them to allow us to farm echo tubes and tuners exclusively, and maybe give us a few guaranteed substat tuners every once in a while.
with the way they designed Rinascita open world, and assuming that's how they'll design future exploration areas, you wont get hundreds of echoe drops from overworld. You can 100% clear the world exploration and only get like 50 echoes total. As Solon himself said in an interview, "If players only get to play WuWa 3 mins a day, then their goal is to make that 3 min experience worth it," and for me the current echo system barely respects the time players put into it, especially those that actually do open world echo farming which feels way more like doing a boring chore than actually playing a game. Also, overworld enemies droping echoes is barely a "heavily open world integrated mechanic", its a nice added feature at most. The echo drop rate is abyssmal and youre still subjected to the same layers of RNG as you would be if you just farm tacet fields, but this time the echo sets they have are also random
If our only options for anime free roam games weren’t just gacha games we wouldn’t be debating about how one way of getting screwed over is more efficient than the other.
All of my echoes have crit/critical damage and attack or er. I've been playing since day one, that could be the reason. My only wish is to spend 40 waveplates instead of 60 or double the tacet field rewards.
I wish for them to add another simulation domain where we can only farm tuners and tubes, at the cost of 40 waveplates and get much more of said tuners and tubes compared to tacet fields. I currently have over 1000 locked echoes waiting to be leveled and tuned, but no tuners or tubes. But given how I can only farm tacet fields, this locked echo count will only grow, while I will always be low on tuners
Honestly they need to do what Nikke does with Overload lines. That and they need to make a new way to gain tubes and tuners especially since they are beyond limited. If they don't like Nikke, Tuners can then be used to reroll lines and lock them if they make it if you reroll you have to roll every non locked lines.
3 gold tubes and 20 tuners per 60 waveplates is unacceptable. The minimum should be 18 gold tubes 60 tuners per 60 waveplates. Everyone fucking please add that to your feedback. It’s not a perfect solution but it does alleviate some problems.
I personally think the echo system is way better than any artifact system out of the big 4 , i get that it's hard to get double crit pieces but it's really not that hard to get a decent set day 1 of getting the character , and about the 3 cost echos they do give a free selector with every event and you can buy a lot from the overwrold shops if you don't wanna farm the over world echos But i can see it being improved a lot more even if i think it's the better system . Making the bosses spawn less will help a lot honestly . The tacit fields are a scam in my opinion, 60 energy for 20 turners and 6 tubes or whatever is not worth it whatsoever so it needs to be at least doubled . Letting us convert echoes into echo xp and Turners will be amazing as well . I also really think that they should improve the system where we get rid of echos to get more into a separate system where we choose if we wanna convert them into 1 or 3 or 4 cost echos or let us choose the set that we wanna convert into instead of putting every cost and every set together ( like why would i wanna convert my echos into the old sets when i already have a ton of locked pieces for them ) I really think very small improvements have the power to fix everything people complain about in the echo system and although i think it's good i also know it's not perfect and it can be improved a lot
I think they should make on set attribute dmg bonus pieces drops in tacet fields have an increase/boosted or guaranteed chance. I cant deal with another electro piece in the glacio set
Imo i would have 1. Data merge give tuners/exp 2. weekly bosses could have boxes like hecate but for all sets 3. Tacets fields could have the boxes as well for 3 costs, so u dont have to farm them just to get a fusion dmg on a glacio set or something random. 4. Add the reset boss from early access into base overworld
Oh boy, if they actually gonna change it after the copious amounts of echoes i rerolled for my Roccia i'm gonna be both mad and grateful beyond understanding
echo system is not bad. in practice, the echo system isnt even all that diff from genshin for example. once you roll to lvl 12 on genshin you can pmuch tell the echo is gonna be azz even if you the next 2 rolls are crit, so you stop at 12 anyway. same applies to wuwa. anybody complaining abt the echo system atp are a bunch if casual tourists that dont wanna manage their resources, nor do they wanna grind tacet fields (which doesnt make sense since there isnt much else to spend waveplates on once you max talents). as a ftp ive never once even came close to running out of echo material. i did run out of tuners once but it was because i prefarmed over 100 exhoes for my jiyan and i kept getting unlucky. even so, i highly doubt any player complaining abt the echo system actually stop at lvl 15 to see if the echo is dead or not. im not even trying to be mean but its such a stupid thing to say all this when kuro consistently gives out tuners/echo xp during evrnts. a lot of it too. this is a baseless argument with no merit imo
Heres what I don't understand people keep saying that "genshin feels like a second job" or something, but in that game the only farming option is tied to resin and once you run out of it, it's over, you don't farm anymore, now in Wuwa you can (and is basically expected to) go around the world killing monsters to farm for echoes, that takes a whole lot more time Yes both games have shitty primary and secondary substat systems, Genshin at least lets you off the hook by having 5 artifact slots and only requiring 4 for the set combo, in this regard I think wuwa is much more of a second job than Genshin. Roccia is another super douchebag move, you have to use 44111 if you don't have a crit-rate weapon for her, lest you either need ludicrous crit rate rolls on all echos or you don't get full buff from her Don't even get started with the tribalism here, I currently play 5 gacha games and I want all of the dogshit gacha games that I play to improve, Wuwa included.
Echo farming is not that bad, and i can get my sub stats that i want easily, the only problem is the echo exp. That's it. So it's not the worst but its not great either. What's the point of the tuner if we don't even have enough echo exp. I have 2k tuner 😅. So overall is not dogshit and trash compared to genshin artifacts 😃. Bruh reacts like this is worst than GI
The only thing that bothers me with the echoes is that you can’t level your echoes with unused echoes. You can only use echoes you did level up. It annoys me.
I agree about the wrong main stat in wrong echo set , its annoying and make full of my bag. Respawn time need to be more faster 10s is good or even better make "click to respawn" Substat can still roll lower pool even its good as crit. It need new item to save 1 substat then extract it to another echo. So if you have 2 echo. Echo A has 10% crit, echo B has 20% cdm, maybe you want to extract that to the newer echo set that benefit your favourite character. Its broken and good looking system, maybe they can limit it with a limited time event to get that item (but frequently)
I honestly don't really mind most of the things about the echo system but jesus christ the range of rolls is straight up evil, getting 6% crit rate and 12% crit damage on an echo feels worse than getting full useless stats, its so fucking bad for min maxing, I feel like I'm being punished for logging in daily and trying to improve my builds
"you can't expect your Carlotta to be level 70, level 5 talents, day 1 and hit 200,000, you know what I'm saying?" Honestly? No. It makes sense in a "that's how it is" sort of mindset, but when you sit back and realise that eventually everyone is going to be union level 80 at some point, the fact that you have to either pre-farm or wait until you can use your new 'toy' when you pull a new character doesn't really make a lot of sense. Building characters at the basic level (aka levels and skills) makes sense at the start of the game, especially with the aspect of unlocking the passives as you go that help round out the character (you get to play as them before unlocking them and then experience the changes that they make afterwards), but by the end of the game, it's kind of a weird time waster because you basically just pump them up with all the stuff you've got then play them at full blast... you don't play them while building them because your world level is already too high for those lower levels and once you have a developed 'main team' to farm things you're not required to play a character in any way to build them anyway. I miss things like AFK Arena where you could put 3 characters in the training hall and it'd boost all characters in your account to the level of the lowest of the 3, so that when you get a new character it bypasses some of this nonsense :P I appreciate we need something to do for content, but the basic parts of building your characters doesn't add up to a whole lot once you're at the top already.
You actually can max our your character day 1 if you use the solvents they give you for free. I did it with Roccia. Also prefarmed her echoes, but ya know, that comes with the territory.
@@Censored_Truth_Addict Sure. Especially if the character uses materials that are already in the game before they arrive :3 I was commenting more on what I believed was the underlying thought: that you shouldn't be able to use your character without building them first, or that building the character from an unusably weak state was 'good' or even 'required' content.
"You cant expect your Carlotta to be level 70, lvl 5 talents, hitting 200k" , yes i Do. I expect to have her 90 maxed skills and echos 30-2h after i get her. and i expect them to do it much better, i play other gatchas where i can, i just need the materials plan ahead have the stacks ready pull and bam character ready to play and i can enjoy my life with a maxed new character, since zzz is the most similar to wuwa,similary you are hard capped by stamina for new "echo sets" but it doesn't matter, when you recycle "echos" in zzz you get "points" and you can just save up a sht ton of them and when a new update comes with any new "echo sets" i can just use my points to get Not only the Specific set, but if i pay 2x more points i can even get the specific "echo Cost" and if you have a very rare resources, i can get The specific Set+Cost+Mainstat, i had a cracked out Miyabi and Astra fully maxed out on right after i pulled them, other games i play that are just as good is GirlsFrontline2 same sht save mats, enjoy, Limbus company... have mats Enjoy if you do Mirror dungeon game just gives u max lvl and you can play them even if not leveled, Wuwa, pulled Carlotta day 1... could only play her 1week+ by then the hype and joy faded alot, this is just simple a massive L, while i will agree that managing resources to make sure u can max them on day 1 safely is on players, not even having the option is entirely on the company, i really hope just like the amaizing 2.0, hope they do echos 2.0 on the same lvl cause right now its a horrible endgame, its even worse for me when i look at all my characters in zzz having fully leveled and working discs, and still sitting on a 650 premium tuner pile despite never farming for them 😭, granted on the downside you cant really farm echos unless you have xp so tradeoff, i expect better man because i already play with better systems, and in case some bitch decides to go the "you hate wuwa" or "hoyoshil" bs i have the entire maps at 100%, all achivements at 100% aside from some bs outro/inferno rider that are impossible to do without having the characters, ToA 30 star, and all Simulations beaten, the 2 from Rinascita as well, Same for ZZZ/GF2 beat all endgame content. i have low expectations, people asked for better xp and echos since release and its been over half a year since then..and then there is ToA 2.0 where they just nerfed all characters unless you have the specific conditional, now that the endgame is so incredibly tight, not having decent echos feel like dogshit even if u get good cr/cd and nothing else
people saying you will beat everything in two minutes if the echo system gets better are dumb because we are also giga time gated by weekly boss mats, which also have a laughing drop rate of 3 for the cost of 60 stamina, so you basically can only get 9 per week, its ridiculous, I can never finish the forte of my characters before I already pulled a new one to work on. I have a constant backlog of weekly boss mats wver since 1.1, I'm already giga time gated even without factoring echoes, to double down on it and making the echo system dogshit just makes the experience of building characters feel fucking bad
The whole Hecate take felt like overexaggerating ngl. If you look at the hecate it buffs coordinated attacks. The new coordinated set drops from the hecate after you beat it, and can be infinitely farmed. There are no coordinated attackers who can utilise the latest DPS sets or the midnight veil set so giving the Hecate those types is pointless and a loss of DPS. In short, you could brick your account if they actually gave the other sets because no coordinated attacker is actually buffed from using the latest sets. So in short, you can infinitely farm the Hecate of the new set type, while the old sets are limited to 6 crit rate and 6 crit damage echoes but they're all atleast crit mainstat. The main reason they gave the echo boxes of Hecate is simply to respect the grind of the old Players who prolly grinded a whole set of the old echoes for Yinlin, Zhezhi or mortefi, so that they can still get a decent buff for minimal effort.
IMHO tacet fields needs to have options for rewards. We should be able to pick if we want: 1)Mix like we have now of EXP, echo and tuners 2)x3 EXP only 3)x3 echos only 4)x3 tuners only And 3cost echos from tacet field must contain on set element for at least 1 of them. (glacio dmg for glacio set)
I've been playing since launch, and only my Jinhsi has finally been able to reach 80/280 Crit while my other characters are stuck at 50/230 Crit. I agree that echo farming is pretty terrible, but it's the min maxing part that's the worst. They really need to bring down the Waveplate Energy cost for Tacet Fields down to 40 or at least permanently double the rewards and implement a system where you can reroll the substats of your echos because we're close to a year and Kuro still hasn't addressed the problem yet.
I agree that the echo system needs improvement, but I'd like to shift the convention a little bit. What makes grinding in some games feel good? Dungeon crawls (Diablo/Path of Exile), RPGs (Monster Hunter and Nioh 2), MMOs (WOW/RuneScape), Rougelikes (Dead Cells/Hades), First and third person shooters (Destiny and Helldriver), simulators (Mine Craft and Terraria). All of these games are played for the grind, so why not look to them to help fix the echo system? Because the RNG can be a pain in those games too, but we live the grind away. What do y'all think?
Everyone is forgetting they are playing a mobile casino game. Its been disguised very well that y'all feel like its a game. Just because youre playing on console/pc. They absolutely can charge US$10 for a skin, US$20 for unlocking a character and completely remove the gacha element. Every other game exists just fine on their merit alone and customer dedication. Eg. Apex, Call of Duty, Marvel Rivals, Final Fantasy and many more examples. Wuwa would be an amazing game if it were not Gacha. But gacha players are so brainwashed that they think that its perfectly ok to be artificially time gated and Spend US$200 and not get what youre seeking to get. Its dumb, were not playing black or Red roulette. It should be a video game.
I am impartial to this “issue” because I have not faced it yet. I generally get double crit subs if I roll like 4-7 times. I farm for echos like maybe 2 times per entire patch. Maybe people are unsatisfied with just having double crit while the rest of the subs are useless. Maybe I’m just lucky as hell, but seriously, am I the only one who think nothing of the echo drop system. If I have to farm some more, I farm some more for a couple more days and usually have a bunch to start rolling. The events gives exp and tuners every chance they get. Unless you’re trying to max out multiple characters at once or have just started building a character and want them built instantly, it’s not a problem a little bit of time won’t fix.
The only reason we are running out of exp is because you guys doesn't stop until you get the right stats unlike games like genshin, HSR and ZZZ there's a limit to how many you can get and lvl up per day. You guys want to get echo easier even though it's already easy people who's talking about it being hard is just lazy and just want to get whatever they want immediately.
As much as I love this game, there's no debate that echo farming sucks ass. The sheer amount of RNG involved, from trying to the right set and main stat to rolling for the desired sub stats, the whole process is extremely frustrating. It's time-consuming and can lead to burnout, fast. To mitigate the issue, I've been saying that WuWa needs to implement some sort of stat selector feature. Giving players the option to select the desired main stat or, better yet, the option to adjust one sub stat after rolling would be a game changer. It's a feature that already exists in other gacha games and would be a major QoL improvement to the overall game.
Either make the desired main/sub stats more easily obtainable or make the sub stats you get more higher values. Implementing both of these will be a big W. 1) Remove the lower rolls for the echoes. For example they should just remove those low 6.3, 6.9, 7.5 crit rate rolls and just make it so that if you get crit rate you'll get a higher value like 8.1, 8.7, 9.3, 9.9 crit rate rolls. This keeps the rates to get the stat unchanged but the rewards are much better making it easier and faster for players to get better echoes. 2) Just give us some system so that we can select the main/sub stats of echoes or maybe make a targeting system for tacet fields or for a character specifically, meaning if I'm doing aero + glacio tacet field then aero echoes will have a 50% chance for 3 cost dropping with aero dmg boost with like a hard pity of 2. Similarly the glacio ones will have higher chance of glacio dmg boost. This is a quick comment, I didn't go in depth or think about it that much but this is something they can improve and implement.
I agree with some stuff but other things was the OP just malding that they got bad rng. 1. Yes bosses need to reset. I hate waiting for them. I don't have the same game time I used to. 2. Yes they need better selectors. The 1.0 echoes I already have main stat double crit farmed up. It's low-key useless other than to gamble for higher rolls. The chests aren't it anymore. 3. Echo XP definitely feels lacking, but I'm not entirely sure if it's for the reason people say it's for. There is a good chunk of echo XP on the table. The problem is a lot of it is time locked behind end game stuff or events and the sheer number of echoes you get. It feels bad to have a massive bank saved up of echoes but no XP because you already rolled like 20. My main issue with point 3 is people saying it's worse than xyz game. No, incorrect. It feels bad in context of itself. The reason why GI, HSR, and all other gacha games don't feel bad is because you basically never get any gear worth rolling so you bank up a fkton on XP. Echoes are infinite and it'd be difficult to balance an infinite source of XP that wouldn't cause fomo. I'd like something added though to compliment how easy echoes are to get though. My main issue outside of the good points he made are the 3 cost arguments. Attack percent main stat are just as good (and depending on the character, sometimes better) so don't only focus on on-set, on-element main stat. Save your slightly sub optimal echoes please. The final thing is you aren't (or shouldn't be) farming echoes 24/7. There will be down time where you do exploration, talent farming, weapon and character level farming etc. you get a surprising amount of good echoes passively. If someone is exclusively farming echoes it would be frustrating but no game has the players exclusively farming gear because in all games it feels like shit. That's why they have all the other stuff to take the edge off. TL;DR: there is a lot to improve but OP has a skill issue
REMOVE TUNERS I cannot stress enough how useless those things are, its just an arbitrary way of complicating echo lvling and increasing the time spent fking around with echoes. Also 4:27 This is one of the most dogshit implementation yet like why the fk would u make it all Hecate and not even include the fking Empyrean set or the new set? its borderline useless because ur forced to build an off-piece 4 cost with Hecate locking you to a 4-4-1-1-1 set essentially, sure that is good for super early players but it doesnt benefit the vets whatsoever.
Bettering the drop rate the would increase the satisfaction rate. Greater satisfaction rate = enjoyable. We all love spending more time when it's Enjoyable. Period.
I hope the may us grind for echoes but not for substats and character progression. PGR literally has virtually no RNG for its memories or if it has, there's a way to pick and choose specific stats you like. It's better since instead of mindless grinding, they offer us an insane amount of permanent/ event content to spend our time with instead of grinding. Maybe add turn-based pokemon-like permanent minigame and the phantom collection system. And a very miniscule amount of grinding for main and substats with a way to guarantee which stat we like. I feel like the purpose of RNG is to prolong playtime which is stupid as hell. They should make repeatable content instead of relying on RNG cause it's less fun than actually playing the game. Again, so far I still find the system far better than some Hoyo games but why should they stoop as low. They need to go above and beyond. 6:50 I wouldn't say they're the worst thing to farm specially when they give selectable chest for some sets. And even without them, there are so many avenues to get them. The issue is echo exp and substats farming. Mainstats are quite reasonable to farm. I still play Genshin and if the echo system is bad, the artifact system is worse at least based on my experience building Mavuika and Citlali. The hing with Genshin is, we shit the mainstat picker but it actually helped me once cause it's hell farming for elemental goblet in Genshin.
Substat reroll solves everything atleAst 2-3 slots. Also people are exaggerating when saying its the worst system ever. Some can even take a year to have decent piece on some game. That said, we definitely need to improve this
The RNG kills the echo system more than the lack of echo exp does but if they would implement an item that can reroll unwanted stats I think that might alleviate the frustration, I’ve had to trash near perfect echos just cause it was missing a Crit rate or Crit Dmg which is heartbreaking to do. I have faith in Kuro though, they will listen eventually.
when i have more than enough tuners + credits to level my items but constantly running out of EXP ? ridiculous. we have to be honest, it feels like shit. things would be fixed if they 1) took away tuners or 2) let us level echos with unused echos
I don't think it's that bad. The main limitation is a self-imposed one. If you've made up a fiction in your head that you *need* double crit on all 5 echoes, yeah, you're in for weeks of farming. Maybe it's cuz I'm an MMO player, but the amount of farming Wuwa demands of you to be able to clear the content is not that great. It's not even that difficult to begin with. Getting crit + attack (which is all you really need in all honesty) on an echo, takes like 10 tries at most. Let us also not forget that you COULD use an ATK 3-cost, or 44111 and lose like 1% damage. But hey, gacha players are greedy, and will complain when their greed doesn't pay off. Maybe if you don't play the game for anything except endgame combat, you don't explore, you don't kill enemies along the way, you don't do tacet fields - then yeah, it's gonna feel like a chore. Echoes are the only thing you can use to improve your stats once everything else is maxed out, so of course it's going to be designed to be something you can iterate on over weeks and months.
My problem is that I have too many echoes and not enough echo xp to level them. I feel the rate at which you get echoes is good enough. Maybe too much because I have to clear out my maxed out inventory too often.
i'm still waiting for the time that we can use those atk, atk% 4cost echoes.. i wish kuro will release a character that will not mainly focus on crit stats but other stats as well... or might as well put a ceiling for crit stats where it will not go higher after reaching a certain point..
Wrong dude with all due respect. Its waveplates that timegate all progression keeping you from farming xp, echo xp, tuners and echoes all day to progress.
@@mazethemercenary Sadly, stamina system is the one thing that gacha games will NEVER remove. I'm pretty it's because of China's regulation about video game playtime.
@regex2660 I would love to get industry word on that because last i noticed china make Blackmyth Wukong and other games? I feel its just when devs want a casino money printing machine and they use mobile players because the games (used to be if you're not shooting for top 10) cheap to develop. (2D animation, turn based, tower defence, autoplay etc) and have the largest reachable market because everyone in a developed country (with money) has a mobile phone. Mobile players who don't game on console/pc fall for the marketing strategies as they don't know any better. They also know they are selling global with global having its own version and localisation so the waveplates could be removed but they don't. Unfortunately its more likely that it won't be removed because you'd be surprised just how many whales are maxing characters and how much those players contribute to the revenue as a whole. As 10 cent has now purchased Kuro its now a public company (I'm not 100% on that) which means it will have to report earnings at the shareholders meetings. If I double check and 10 cent is private then womp womp we will never know.
@regex2660 Mobile games often use stamina systems primarily as a monetization strategy, allowing developers to encourage players to make in-app purchases to replenish their stamina and continue playing, while also controlling the pace of gameplay and preventing players from burning through content too quickly; essentially creating a reason for players to return to the game regularly even if they only have a short play session.
i don't mind the grinding as i don't own many five stars characters to be concerned BUT ONE THING i'm running low on IS ECHO EXP omg that thing is even HARDER to get than ASTRITE
They made a calculation error about endgame, they release gold echo too soon, The databank too easy to max, Union level is fine but leveling to LV 90 are too soon. So the echo resource held back is their last resource to make the game still have some sense of "not enough" to make the game not complete in a sense. My suggestion is make another tier above gold like 6 star or 7 star or 8 star. Make databank harder to complete like collecting each echo 100x or 500x or something. Make living to 100 harder, more char exp and weapon exp. Then they can release the echo / tunner converter
If Echo stat farming became easier to get OP stats, someone will make a thread about no contents to play When we get good things too easy, their value will drop. The enjoyment of getting good stats will be none and it'll be another chore. And someone will just ask perfect stat as default. Meanwhile I have a crazier hope, set changer lmao In the end the stat booster farming is a complex matter, to find the perfect balance to please every players is
I still have a shit ton of tuners up to 4k but I'm always low on tubes as rng fucks me with no crit stats on echoes that finally got the main stat i want. I need the shitty base echoes to be converted to exp like any gacha that uses other equipment/relics as mat exp
I just need echo xp increase because grinding even a decent echo set for one unit is 💯 depending on rng,and if you have bad day...prepare to burn bunch 9f echo exp and those echo substat mats like it was water 🗿
More matetials Or Lucky/critical level ups like genshin Or Being able to transform echoes into level UP materials Or Being able to use lvl0 echos to level UP other echoes Or A little better crit rates?
They could improve the recycling of echoes with a better filter, adding the option of search: "have/don't have." Example: Have 3* / Have Spectro sets / Don't have Spectro damage bonus... Better than clicking every single main stat that is not Spectro Damage.
See the next substat it will roll either exact substat or 1 in 3 to still make it random idk, use echoes to upgrade other echoes, gold echoes having 2 selectable/already selected substats would be cool. There are a lot of ways to make echo system better. Also they can change the echo system to 4 set bonus instead of 5 so you can have 1 off piece like genshin because when you get electro bonus on ice piece, it sucks. Adding bunch of echo xp tubes in the character improvement guy (Yhan) can also be an improvement but they need to put a bunch. Another way could be spending 50 tuner to change a substat. You can build a whole new echo with that amount but if you have good substats in already existing echo, why would you try to build another when you can swap 1 that was ruining that echo. Also more tuners pls
So what ? They make their echo system easier to grind so everyone finishes building their characters in 2 days? It can be frustrating but with the echo boxes they give in events and the recurring tacet field x2, it's pretty fair... The only thing they should change is the resources cost to lvl up the echoes.
i really wonder what people are doing when they cant build carlotta within 3 weeks. mine was build in week one with 77% cr and 310% cdmg and i havent been farming the overworld since 1.0 - since i can not be bothered anymore to waste my time on boring stuff like this. all i do, when i don't have to farm material for a char i want to build, is farming tacet fields + merging echoes and there is absolutely no issue with tuners, echo xp or getting chars build. the only issue i see is people who dont understand that other gachas limit the amount of gear you can get on a daily basis to begin with, where wuwa allows people to farm the overworld and use XP and tuners to limit gear progression. you people will never get enough XP or tuners to constantly level every echo you farm in the overworld and all the whining will not change that. also imagine having perfect gear on day one... lmao.. there is nothing to do in all these gacha games to begin with, if they remove any kind of gear progression players have to work on than there is actually absolutely nothing to work on between patches
here is an easy fix for the 3-costs, just remove all incorrect elemental types for the dedicated elemental sets doesn't solve stuff like moonlit, but it's a good start, such a waste of time sorting/deleting like glacio% spectro set echos
So I got Roccia just because I wanted to and she is disgustingly stay hungry . I’m sitting at 260/66 with ER of 129 with her battle pass gauntlet and i just finished the last echo yesterday 😂 . I knew what I was in for but I’m hoping in the future this doesn’t happen with account defining resonators …I feel like I lost my soul trying to get good rolls on her 4 piece
How about increasing echo XP and letting use use increasingly more tuners to reroll a substat in an echo? That way you could save a "dead piece" that is just lacking CR or CD
I suggest wait until new endgame content releases with weekly reset or smth, otherwise we'll feeling burnout or bored due to able maximize stats on Day 1 character release..
Honestly giving tuners another purpose would be better for the echo system overall, there is no need for them to exist just to give substats to your echoes
How is lucky based mechanics a skill issue? There are really dumb people. A bunch of gacha people are so used to the bad mechanics that they think people asking for improvements are despicable. I cant even play my other characters since I already have a skill issue in rolling for my mains.
The Hecate box, i think its because the hecate you kill, only drops the new sets. so in order to give you the other sets too, they made that box. Otherwise you could only have hecate on new set , and since its a "off field" echo damage boost, its cool to get it of all elements without having to farm it forever. You can still get the new set by farming the boss like any other bosses. annoying.. sure, but nothing different from before.
The onyl reason why people complain about echo exp is because thoae stupid people grind multiple characters at the same time instead of just focusing on one
i only have 2 limited dps because of this rng it's preventing me to pull more cuz it's very hard to build a character on my cursed account if rerolling substats is a bad thing how about transferring a set of substats with a cost of something so we can tune in peace even on a def,hp% 3 cost echo until we get a satisfied result and transfer it to what our character needs?
Yeah farming 3 cost and 4 cost is so bad and when u get correct main stat it rolls no crit so ur back to grinding. Even if you farm everyday the echo exp and tuner limits you.
You can pick any substats you want in wuwa. Of course, I'm lying right? 😂 It costs you just enough tuners (but it's still plenty especially if you want those 9.9+ crit rate in every echo). Don't ask me, I'm just a liar.😂
if Wuwa echo farming is bad then Genshin/HSR/ZZZ farming are WHAT? Bro, you just need to get the right main stat on the right set and that piece is rollable. In the other 3 games, you need to get the right main stat, the right sub stat and has to have good rolls on them. Not to mention the fact that you get the right main stat WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY easier in wuwa, I have got like 35-40 glacio/atk 3 costs on the new ice set, the same amount for the spectro set, try to get those amount in 1 year of playing Genshin or HSR (and you have to get the right sub stat, and roll better as well, just a reminder), and that's just my 1 month
For Genshin and HSR i will agree, however ZZZ has the best system, imo. The first 3 discs always come with a set mainstat, so you need to look for specific stats only on 3 out 6 discs, you need to level those only to lvl 15, also while the substats are still rng the values on the substats are not, meaning there is no rng involved weather you get 2,4,6 etc % but the value % you get is always set the same. There is also Hi-Fi Master copies you get from dismantling useless discs, which you can then use to craft new ones without spending energy and there is Tuner item you can use to guarantee you specific main stat you want. Dismantling discs that rolled bad, also returns a large portion of the level up materials used and the game gives you a generous amount per 60 energy spent to farm those, so it's much much better system overall
@Rin_KitKat good to know, I dont play ZZZ so I was assume they are quite the same, my bad, really sorry. Still, I think Wuwa echo system are more friendly tho.
@@viethoanggamer The fact that you don't have to grind and spent materials to level up the discs all the way to 25 but to 15 instead and pray for good RNG % value on an already RNG substat (also in Wuwa you need to grind unique echos for the set bonus effect, so that's another rng layer on top) already makes ZZZ system objectively more friendly, but sure you are entitled to your own preference and opinion ofc ^^
yeah farming 3 cost is bad but calling it the worst in any gachas is crazy. try to get a double crit on-set goblet in genshin impact lol
get double crits double atk only for 1 stat at minimum roll
most people would say this is good
but the minority of min-maxxers would go "ooooh, should be better"
Not really painful on my end farming 3 costs, since I've had it much worse in Epic 7
But yes got the same sentiment as other people on the sealed tubes
Yeah the hyperbole doesn't help. I've spent 3 months farming 1 domain in HSR to min max a set and never got a good speed boot.
It should be improved but lying doesn't help anybody and just makes you easy to discredit.
Easy
Considering the new permanent ellusive realm game mode seems to be creating a new method to farm specific echo sets it seems based on, that might resolve it a bit.
One of my current annoying things is nightmare TD bosses and waiting for overlord boss TDs to spam them is a bit annoying, since updating certain echo builds are a bit of a pain when doing 1+ minute waits even when rotating between 2 different bosses.
chasing specific main/sub stat echoes are sort of not as bad if you can go between multiple spawn spots to get a buncha them.
The whole 14 (or was it 21?) weekly reset echo pick ups during the last ellusive realms was kinda nice though for a good introductory start of chasing.
Now if only they can restrict certain echo sets from rolling certain 3 costs, since it makes little sense for any of the other 5 elements to be rolled for a frosty resolve echo set which only benefits glacio builds anyway.
Bro never played Epic Seven... Try farming a viable set in that game and you're up against literal paid staff dedicated to farming accounts 24/7. Let's not even mention FGO...
The only gripe I have is not being able to use un-leveled echoes as feeders for echoes you want to level-up.
you would be farming those infinitely
@@YoichiMutou they are once per day though, since they don't respawn until reset. But yes, it would create a possibility to degeneratly farm daily every echo on the maps, so i can se why Kuro doesn't do it.
@@rayzen119 Still only like 1% to 5% of player base would actually do that, most of the time i get max echoes capacity i just infinitely merge them from shits to shit in hopes of getting echoes that are on set with the damage on set, like midnight veil and havoc
@@ZeHoovy2595 ofc, but the cries would come from those that "feel forced" to grind them every day like that.
I wouldn't have a problem, it's on me to farm how much i want, but apparently others need babysitting and can't control themselves.
@ I honestly dont think that'd be the case, just because the grind would be like 3 times faster, instead of spending about a week to get decent or good echoes for a character it would take about 2 or 3 days
okay so maybe im just dented but i really don’t think wuwa’s echo system is that bad. the only change i would like to see is tacet fields dropping a few more tubes and tuners.
In wuwa, my dpses on average take ~3 weeks to farm for if i solely focus on them. the only other gacha gearing system im familiar with is Genshin’s, and in Genshin it takes me 6+ months to get the same artifact quality (right mainstat + double crit).
also i had like 500+ gold tubes and 5000+ tuners going into 2.0 and I didn’t even farm tacet fields like crazy or login daily. i just bought them whenever i could from event/hologram/IR shops bc ppl online said that’s the resource most likely to be the limiting reagent when it comes to gearing.
i feel like we gotta classify the feedback by types of players because imo if you’re trying to min max echoes to have like 4+ useful substats, you should know you’re crazy for that and not expect to have a completed build by the end of the patch.
similarly if you never farm a single overworld mob or boss outside the guaranteed 15 you shouldnt expect to get a bunch of correct mainstat echoes to try and level by the end of the patch. imo if you do that you should expect your build to take ~2 months if thats how you farm.
Finally a sensible take on this.
This needs more attention! Wuwas echosystem is too hated.
I feel like your quite lucky, i have been farming for xangli yao since his release and the best i could get was 2.2k attack with 66/202crit. He is currently not usable in any endgame content because he still lacks a lot of damage.
@@natncat yikes,you make me remember worst day of artifact farming in g games 🗿
the only issue wuwa has when it comes to echoes is a bunch of players who think they should be able to level and tune every echoe they got from wasting time on farming the overworld. people don't understand that all gachas limit gear progression - most gachas do this by giving far less gear than wuwa, wuwa does it via echo xp and tuners. kuro doesn't want that people are able to level and tune every echoe they get from the overworld
also farming the overworld is not even necessary. the last time i wasted time on overworld grind was in 1.1 and yet i was somehow able to get carlotta to about 80%cr and about 300% CDMG with just doing my daily tacet fields and merging all unwanted echoes. with just farming tacet fields i am still able to get decent builds and never had any tuner or echoe XP issues.
so yeah, i have no clue what people are doing to be honest
Saw this from another person but Tuners should be used for rerolling stats instead and stats should just be given at level up.
Been putting this in feedback. Hopefully they’ll consider it
At this point people already got thousands even ten thousands tuners, bet they will make it pricey to reroll 😂
@@ironclad-m3q if u spend ur ressource smartly echo xp doesnt become the issue its the tuner that become one
i have no shortage of echo xp but 0 tuners
if they do that, then yeah it needs to be pricey to reroll but good idea
@@ganyumaindayone1112 That applicable to all resources, including tuners. And you can't spend tuners without spending Echo EXP. 😅
Reroll is still bad, we need substat saver and extractor
Calling it the worst is a stretch. I have built both Carlotta and Zhezhi before Roccia came out and that's not possible in any other gacha for me. If anything I would slightly increase the echo tuner refund material, and add 5 to the daily missions reward.
Not a stretch, it’s completely incorrect
I play or have played all 4 of the big gatchas (3 of hoyos and wuwa)
HSR gives so much overcapped energy and it’s auto-farm and even then you can lose your mind trying just to get the right MAIN stat. Worse deal in Genshin, the worst of the bunch since you can’t even auto. Zzz isn’t too bad for still worse than wuwa.
Wuwa gives you tons of morphable echoe, on set 3 cost boxes, and 15 guaranteed 4 costs a week.
It’s by no stretch the worst to farm, he’s talking out of his ass
Where he is correct is that the EXP is scarce, but not obtaining an echo itself.
And you can clear endgame even if you have 2 shit rolls on every echo (speaking from experience early lol)
People just want to hyper optimize which is fine, but it’s going to cost time and a lot of echoes will need to be scrapped doing the 5-15 rolling method
If they increase the amount of EXP we can get from Tacet Fields, they should bring back the double EXP event each week, I’ve been lucky with my stat pulls but then again I’m not min maxing the stats.
The biggest ball buster for me is 3-Costs. Getting a 3-Cost with the wrong element SUUUUCKS. Constantly getting Glacio Damage bonus on the Spectro set and Spectro Damage bonus on the Glacio set in tacet fields drives me crazy. Feels so much more like a waste of stamina compared to other games, since you're really there for the 3-Costs because 1-Costs are much more plentiful in the open world. At least an Atk% 3-Cost is rollable to hold you down in the meantime, compared to getting something that is completely worthless.
I think making "On-Set" Elemental Damage Bonus/Atk%/Def%/HP% be the only things that can be rolled on 3-Costs in Tacet Fields is the play. And then have all stats be possible in the open world. It'll be a step in the right direction to make Tacet Fields more attractive while still having some RNG to it (even though characters can still use Atk%/Def%/HP% 3-Costs), and at the same time still leaving it possible to get lucky and get a good echo in the open world.
This so much, I don't care if the commenters here are saying the farming required isn't necessarily bad, you cannot justify telling me there is value for having a Havoc damage bonus roll on a Spectro set. The fact we have to spend time checking and removing the trash echoes is another time waster.
1 costs are literally worse it keeps giving u hp and defense u at least get a chance at the 3 cost in the tacet fields
@@JeeTee-k7w yeah tacet fields gives so much 3 costs that those have been the easiet pieces to farm for me. 1 costs are so rare in tacet fields that farming in the overworld is the only way to farm them and the 20% drop rate is horrendous.
Pretty sure the design of overworld exploration in Huanglong and Blackshores indirectly made people think farming 1 costs is easier. If they design future overworld exploration simiral to Rinascita, people would soon realize that 1 costs are the true enemies of farming lol
I always write on the survey that we're at an era that "Guarantees in the gacha system exist so why can't we have the same on gears? Why is it impossible for players to quantify how much time they will need to invest to get their BiS while it's possible to quantify how much money (or time if you save for more than a year) they will need to consume in order to get S6R5 characters?"
I hope that when Kuro performs changes on the Echo system it's within the same mindset of convenience that they used for their gacha system (which can still be improved but is a start) - by having a fail-safe on the player to get full BiS that is progressed through time spent.
These issues would've been solved months ago, if kuro'd actually PLAY THEIR OWN GAME
As a casual player, I feel like the echo system is great and you don’t have to put all you exp in one echo to see if it’s good or bad, the only improvement is to see the substats before you upgrade the echo
The issues with the echo system are only noticeable once you farm echoes enough. You probably haven’t reached that threshold.
Had to spend a week farming 1.5 hours daily on cuddle wuddles for Carlotta (1 ATK% and 1 glacio%). Every day I got 5-6 havoc% midnight veils. But only 1-3 glacio% frosty resolves, and barely any on ATK%.
Also spent 10-15 hours rotating between all the nightmare echoes, only to continue getting ones that constantly roll with bad main stats and substats. Spent ALL of my tuners to finally get double crits on each 4 cost echo.
I only realised after pulling Roccia, that burning through my tuner reserves makes future echo farming absolutely horrible. From the 240 waveplates you get a day, you only get to roll 8 new substats.
Call me “greedy and stupid”, but getting decent builds on your characters shouldn’t be this painful to achieve.
@@GrGalan6464it only painful when your in a rush or min maxing I don’t really care outside of that if you ain’t impatient it’s pretty chill
The issue is when you start too fine tune a set even for decent substat,not too mention 3cost elemental set with double crit is frustrating to farm(for example)
@@little_error295 I pretty much farm until I get double crit on each piece, w/ correct stat, set and 4 cost. So I’m not exactly a “min-maxer”. My luck has been bottom of the barrel since 2.0, which is why I’m so especially short on both XP and tuners.
But yeah, what you said I pretty much agree with. If you’re satisfied with using some single crit echoes, the system doesn’t feel that bad. You’ll still be sitting on a bunch of honeymoon-phase rewards after all.
But once you hit one of the 3 roadblocks (lack of echoes, XP, and *especially* tuners), the system feels not so great.
For reference, I had enough XP to +20 all my echoes on Roccia straight away. But I only just got enough tuners to roll 5 subs *once* on each echo after 2.5 days worth of stamina. The 20 tuners you can get every 6 hours should be permanently tripled in my opinion.
@@GrGalan6464 the issue is people who don't understand that gear progression is limited on purpose in these gacha games. most gacha games do this by limiting the amount of gear you can get per day by adding energy cost to is. so similar to tacet fields in wuwa.
e.g. in HSR using all your energy per day gives you 12 pieces of gear and at least 10 of them are crap, probably more than that
in ZZZ using your 300 energy gives you about 10 pieces of gear, with again at least 90% being crap.
wuwa softens this type of limit on gear progression by allowing overworld farming, but wuwa's limiting factor is echo XP and tuners and people who farm the overworld will never have enough, no matter how much tuners or echo XP they give.
funny thing is: i did not waste my time on stupid overworld farming since version 1.0 and still got my carlotta build in week 1 with just the stuff i get from tacet fields and mergin echoes and she is at 76%CR and 310%CDMG.. i seriously have no clue what you people are doing
The problem with RNG gear games is that getting new characters means farming sets, which for me is a reason to not pull unless i pre farmed before.
all we need is a store where we can sell /exchange echos for exp materials . we have mroe
purpose to grind the open world
They should take that tuner materials out the game and increase echo exp reward instead, it's pointless to have those tuners especially in endgame I have over 3 to 4k and it feels like I'm never consuming any of it. Also they should add merge echo where you can transfer some of it substat when you use it to upgrade an echo.
Also they can add a new system where after data bank reaches like 24-25, you can get %10 drop rate of substat reroller when you capture an echo. We all brainstormed to think about these things within an hour, why kuro can't.
Because many people whale their way out of this problem in tacet field.
Tacet field stayed horrendous because whales spend there non stop.
Why fix it when they are milking whales there ?
its true that its boring to get the main stats, but for me the bigger problem was always and will always be Echo exp tube... everything else is a joke compared to that.
What if i drop 2353 correct main stats if i can't roll them?
That's nightmare. Building Carlotta is kinda pain from my end cuz her 4 cost boss is dropping every main stats except these two: Crit rate/ crit dmg. Damn.
@@abdullamamun8812 well all i can say its.. keep farming, its not limited.. we all play the same game, it will drop that you need sooner or later. but as i said, sometimes i save 3 or 4 crit main stat one, and then they either roll shit or i don't have echo mats because im also building other characters.
@@WastedTalent83 yeah, the great affinity for flat Def, atk and HP. $hit rolls
Since when are you playing and how do you level echos? Echo exp is only a problem for new players and players that level wrong, over time this goes away and instead are limited by tuners. Though I agree both should get buffed as even when only farming tacet fields you slowly overcap on echos, tuners just need a bigger buff than tuners to be balanced with exp.
At this rate (if echo system stay unfixed) we've another reason to skip new characters...
and this'll get even worse each time they add new sets.
I think a form to the actual improve all the echo system is If they add a system like hsr relic crafting instead of the actual data merge, like select the set u want and give with random stats and also add something like the self-modeling resin for choose the main stat, and the wishful resin for substats, at less choose 2 or 3 substats, then with the echos xp problem I propose that you can use echoes as xp even when you are +0 to be able to level up other echoes and last remove the tuners completely. This way they would make it possible for you to grind infinite echoes if you want without having to spend waveplates
I'm honestly not expecting them to even address the issues with the echo system for a long while, or at least until a full year has passed. They did it with pgr to an extent, so it'll most likely happen here as well unless they get enough push back from the community.
I made the massive mistake of spending all my tuners on getting double crit on all my characters I use. Especially because of the release of nightmare echoes. This was a week before I pulled for Roccia.
It puts you into echo purgatory. How you ration your echo exp literally doesn’t matter. You only get 8 substat rolls per day (20 tuners every 6 hours). Trying to get a *single* double crit echo is extremely painful.
Lets keep talking about ECHO SYSTEM until they fix it
I love wuwa + i play daily since launch with 2 acc until this day
But I'VE to be Objective!
The echo system is just too grindy, time consuming, too painful....
We could solve it through the following solution for example:
Just add "Precise Tuning" we deserve it
They could still make us grind for echoes (though i don't know why they must)
Let me tell u how, through 2 ways:
1- bring a precise-tuning's limited currency,
2- that "precise tuning" will require new "precise tuners" and an echo of the same variety + same main stat to use that currency. each time u try to use this currency (and you know how much time we'd need to grind to get such echoes)
They just need to re-work tuners so you can use 200 to change the main stat of an echo.
The echo farming is only a problem in the beginning, once you finish building your echo set you'd passively gain good echo by just exploring and killing every TDs you encounter and farming Tacet field everyday. same with echo Exp and Tuners. I have finished building both my Zhezhi and Carlotta, and I am still left with 5.2k tuners, 550 gold exp, and 760 purple exp. your resources will accumulate over time.
And this is me only having 1 hr of play time everyday coz I have work and shits.
The echo system is nowhere far from perfect but it is engineered so that people have something to do after completing everything in the patch. This literally the same problem with people rushing to complete the TOAs and complaining why they can't do it knowing full well that their account aren't built for the end game yet. just play the game naturally, no need to rush.
if the dev make it easier i bet peoples will complain again that nothing to do in the game after they perfect build every characters in day 1
Yup, unreasonable people everywhere
This
They need to do the work and make the game more engaging without a hamster wheel
@ how many more work they need to do to please their players ? why not ask them to make WUWA an offline game too ?
this is a different but coexisting problem. Lack of replayable endgame content doesn't suddenly make a horrendous gear farming system good, that's just two coexisting problems that both needs to be worked on, not left alone to rot for good
and this problem is still here ever since 1.0 like bruh kuro what are you even thinking? sure you listen but you didn't listen "enough"
My biggest problem with it is that before i can see if a piece is good i have to level it up to level 20 or sometimes 25. Which costs a lot of recources, and if that last roll is bad then it is just wasted. I would rather know what the substats are gonna be before leveling it up to level 25 and using 50 tuners on it.
i will die on the hill that the best way ever to solve echo farming, is by making monsters drop echo tubes.. there cannot be any better way , you WILL farm them cause you need them, and you WILL farm when you don't need them to level up the one you actually need, and if they roll like crap, you probably dropped new ones while farming for echo tubes. its the perfect cycle in my opinion.
what are tacet fields for then
My proposal to help with Echo System.(All accusations of secretly trying to sabotage will be ignored).
1. Create a Echo Sub-stat reroller
2. Can lock up to 3 sub-stats before reroll
3. Can reroll a echos substats only once
4. Rerolled echoes are marked as such
5. Reduced cost of waveplates for tacet fields
I totally agree that the system is annoying, but I genuinely cannot imagine them reworking it. If we all will be able to gear up in a few days, then what are we supposed to do with hundreds of echoes dropping from the open world? They can't just remove a heavily world integrated mechanic. All I can think of, is for them to allow us to farm echo tubes and tuners exclusively, and maybe give us a few guaranteed substat tuners every once in a while.
with the way they designed Rinascita open world, and assuming that's how they'll design future exploration areas, you wont get hundreds of echoe drops from overworld. You can 100% clear the world exploration and only get like 50 echoes total. As Solon himself said in an interview, "If players only get to play WuWa 3 mins a day, then their goal is to make that 3 min experience worth it," and for me the current echo system barely respects the time players put into it, especially those that actually do open world echo farming which feels way more like doing a boring chore than actually playing a game.
Also, overworld enemies droping echoes is barely a "heavily open world integrated mechanic", its a nice added feature at most. The echo drop rate is abyssmal and youre still subjected to the same layers of RNG as you would be if you just farm tacet fields, but this time the echo sets they have are also random
Imagine farming tacet field for 3hours for your character and rolled sheet stats.
If our only options for anime free roam games weren’t just gacha games we wouldn’t be debating about how one way of getting screwed over is more efficient than the other.
All of my echoes have crit/critical damage and attack or er. I've been playing since day one, that could be the reason. My only wish is to spend 40 waveplates instead of 60 or double the tacet field rewards.
Ngl spending 60 energy on a regular taced fields kinda sucks, ima better just grind the ones i need and spend energy on character/weapon materials
Reduced echo field cost would also be nice
We also need a way for rerolls. It is difficult enough to get the right substats, and then getting these to be good and that for every character....
I wish for them to add another simulation domain where we can only farm tuners and tubes, at the cost of 40 waveplates and get much more of said tuners and tubes compared to tacet fields.
I currently have over 1000 locked echoes waiting to be leveled and tuned, but no tuners or tubes. But given how I can only farm tacet fields, this locked echo count will only grow, while I will always be low on tuners
Honestly they need to do what Nikke does with Overload lines. That and they need to make a new way to gain tubes and tuners especially since they are beyond limited. If they don't like Nikke, Tuners can then be used to reroll lines and lock them if they make it if you reroll you have to roll every non locked lines.
3 gold tubes and 20 tuners per 60 waveplates is unacceptable. The minimum should be 18 gold tubes 60 tuners per 60 waveplates. Everyone fucking please add that to your feedback. It’s not a perfect solution but it does alleviate some problems.
I personally think the echo system is way better than any artifact system out of the big 4 , i get that it's hard to get double crit pieces but it's really not that hard to get a decent set day 1 of getting the character , and about the 3 cost echos they do give a free selector with every event and you can buy a lot from the overwrold shops if you don't wanna farm the over world echos
But i can see it being improved a lot more even if i think it's the better system
. Making the bosses spawn less will help a lot honestly
. The tacit fields are a scam in my opinion, 60 energy for 20 turners and 6 tubes or whatever is not worth it whatsoever so it needs to be at least doubled
. Letting us convert echoes into echo xp and Turners will be amazing as well
. I also really think that they should improve the system where we get rid of echos to get more into a separate system where we choose if we wanna convert them into 1 or 3 or 4 cost echos or let us choose the set that we wanna convert into instead of putting every cost and every set together ( like why would i wanna convert my echos into the old sets when i already have a ton of locked pieces for them )
I really think very small improvements have the power to fix everything people complain about in the echo system and although i think it's good i also know it's not perfect and it can be improved a lot
I think they should make on set attribute dmg bonus pieces drops in tacet fields have an increase/boosted or guaranteed chance. I cant deal with another electro piece in the glacio set
Imo i would have
1. Data merge give tuners/exp
2. weekly bosses could have boxes like hecate but for all sets
3. Tacets fields could have the boxes as well for 3 costs, so u dont have to farm them just to get a fusion dmg on a glacio set or something random.
4. Add the reset boss from early access into base overworld
Oh boy, if they actually gonna change it after the copious amounts of echoes i rerolled for my Roccia i'm gonna be both mad and grateful beyond understanding
echo system is not bad. in practice, the echo system isnt even all that diff from genshin for example. once you roll to lvl 12 on genshin you can pmuch tell the echo is gonna be azz even if you the next 2 rolls are crit, so you stop at 12 anyway.
same applies to wuwa. anybody complaining abt the echo system atp are a bunch if casual tourists that dont wanna manage their resources, nor do they wanna grind tacet fields (which doesnt make sense since there isnt much else to spend waveplates on once you max talents). as a ftp ive never once even came close to running out of echo material. i did run out of tuners once but it was because i prefarmed over 100 exhoes for my jiyan and i kept getting unlucky. even so, i highly doubt any player complaining abt the echo system actually stop at lvl 15 to see if the echo is dead or not.
im not even trying to be mean but its such a stupid thing to say all this when kuro consistently gives out tuners/echo xp during evrnts. a lot of it too. this is a baseless argument with no merit imo
They crazy part is even if they gave everyone ehst they wanted and people got half the playbase still wouldnt be able to dodge
Heres what I don't understand people keep saying that "genshin feels like a second job" or something, but in that game the only farming option is tied to resin and once you run out of it, it's over, you don't farm anymore, now in Wuwa you can (and is basically expected to) go around the world killing monsters to farm for echoes, that takes a whole lot more time
Yes both games have shitty primary and secondary substat systems, Genshin at least lets you off the hook by having 5 artifact slots and only requiring 4 for the set combo, in this regard I think wuwa is much more of a second job than Genshin.
Roccia is another super douchebag move, you have to use 44111 if you don't have a crit-rate weapon for her, lest you either need ludicrous crit rate rolls on all echos or you don't get full buff from her
Don't even get started with the tribalism here, I currently play 5 gacha games and I want all of the dogshit gacha games that I play to improve, Wuwa included.
Echo farming is not that bad, and i can get my sub stats that i want easily, the only problem is the echo exp. That's it. So it's not the worst but its not great either. What's the point of the tuner if we don't even have enough echo exp. I have 2k tuner 😅. So overall is not dogshit and trash compared to genshin artifacts 😃. Bruh reacts like this is worst than GI
The only thing that bothers me with the echoes is that you can’t level your echoes with unused echoes. You can only use echoes you did level up. It annoys me.
I agree about the wrong main stat in wrong echo set , its annoying and make full of my bag.
Respawn time need to be more faster 10s is good or even better make "click to respawn"
Substat can still roll lower pool even its good as crit. It need new item to save 1 substat then extract it to another echo. So if you have 2 echo. Echo A has 10% crit, echo B has 20% cdm, maybe you want to extract that to the newer echo set that benefit your favourite character. Its broken and good looking system, maybe they can limit it with a limited time event to get that item (but frequently)
I prefer to grind a certain item that will drop to what I want, rather to grind a RNG JESUS
I honestly don't really mind most of the things about the echo system but jesus christ the range of rolls is straight up evil, getting 6% crit rate and 12% crit damage on an echo feels worse than getting full useless stats, its so fucking bad for min maxing, I feel like I'm being punished for logging in daily and trying to improve my builds
After you exhaust the 15 guarantee, the waiting time b/w two 4 costs is effectively 5 minutes and tuners are like ascension mats for your echoes, smh
"you can't expect your Carlotta to be level 70, level 5 talents, day 1 and hit 200,000, you know what I'm saying?"
Honestly? No. It makes sense in a "that's how it is" sort of mindset, but when you sit back and realise that eventually everyone is going to be union level 80 at some point, the fact that you have to either pre-farm or wait until you can use your new 'toy' when you pull a new character doesn't really make a lot of sense.
Building characters at the basic level (aka levels and skills) makes sense at the start of the game, especially with the aspect of unlocking the passives as you go that help round out the character (you get to play as them before unlocking them and then experience the changes that they make afterwards), but by the end of the game, it's kind of a weird time waster because you basically just pump them up with all the stuff you've got then play them at full blast... you don't play them while building them because your world level is already too high for those lower levels and once you have a developed 'main team' to farm things you're not required to play a character in any way to build them anyway.
I miss things like AFK Arena where you could put 3 characters in the training hall and it'd boost all characters in your account to the level of the lowest of the 3, so that when you get a new character it bypasses some of this nonsense :P
I appreciate we need something to do for content, but the basic parts of building your characters doesn't add up to a whole lot once you're at the top already.
You actually can max our your character day 1 if you use the solvents they give you for free. I did it with Roccia. Also prefarmed her echoes, but ya know, that comes with the territory.
@@Censored_Truth_Addict Sure. Especially if the character uses materials that are already in the game before they arrive :3
I was commenting more on what I believed was the underlying thought: that you shouldn't be able to use your character without building them first, or that building the character from an unusably weak state was 'good' or even 'required' content.
"You cant expect your Carlotta to be level 70, lvl 5 talents, hitting 200k" , yes i Do. I expect to have her 90 maxed skills and echos 30-2h after i get her. and i expect them to do it much better, i play other gatchas where i can, i just need the materials plan ahead have the stacks ready pull and bam character ready to play and i can enjoy my life with a maxed new character, since zzz is the most similar to wuwa,similary you are hard capped by stamina for new "echo sets" but it doesn't matter, when you recycle "echos" in zzz you get "points" and you can just save up a sht ton of them and when a new update comes with any new "echo sets" i can just use my points to get Not only the Specific set, but if i pay 2x more points i can even get the specific "echo Cost" and if you have a very rare resources, i can get The specific Set+Cost+Mainstat, i had a cracked out Miyabi and Astra fully maxed out on right after i pulled them, other games i play that are just as good is GirlsFrontline2 same sht save mats, enjoy, Limbus company... have mats Enjoy if you do Mirror dungeon game just gives u max lvl and you can play them even if not leveled, Wuwa, pulled Carlotta day 1... could only play her 1week+ by then the hype and joy faded alot, this is just simple a massive L, while i will agree that managing resources to make sure u can max them on day 1 safely is on players, not even having the option is entirely on the company, i really hope just like the amaizing 2.0, hope they do echos 2.0 on the same lvl cause right now its a horrible endgame, its even worse for me when i look at all my characters in zzz having fully leveled and working discs, and still sitting on a 650 premium tuner pile despite never farming for them 😭, granted on the downside you cant really farm echos unless you have xp so tradeoff, i expect better man because i already play with better systems, and in case some bitch decides to go the "you hate wuwa" or "hoyoshil" bs i have the entire maps at 100%, all achivements at 100% aside from some bs outro/inferno rider that are impossible to do without having the characters, ToA 30 star, and all Simulations beaten, the 2 from Rinascita as well, Same for ZZZ/GF2 beat all endgame content. i have low expectations, people asked for better xp and echos since release and its been over half a year since then..and then there is ToA 2.0 where they just nerfed all characters unless you have the specific conditional, now that the endgame is so incredibly tight, not having decent echos feel like dogshit even if u get good cr/cd and nothing else
people saying you will beat everything in two minutes if the echo system gets better are dumb because we are also giga time gated by weekly boss mats, which also have a laughing drop rate of 3 for the cost of 60 stamina, so you basically can only get 9 per week, its ridiculous, I can never finish the forte of my characters before I already pulled a new one to work on. I have a constant backlog of weekly boss mats wver since 1.1, I'm already giga time gated even without factoring echoes, to double down on it and making the echo system dogshit just makes the experience of building characters feel fucking bad
The whole Hecate take felt like overexaggerating ngl. If you look at the hecate it buffs coordinated attacks.
The new coordinated set drops from the hecate after you beat it, and can be infinitely farmed.
There are no coordinated attackers who can utilise the latest DPS sets or the midnight veil set so giving the Hecate those types is pointless and a loss of DPS. In short, you could brick your account if they actually gave the other sets because no coordinated attacker is actually buffed from using the latest sets.
So in short, you can infinitely farm the Hecate of the new set type, while the old sets are limited to 6 crit rate and 6 crit damage echoes but they're all atleast crit mainstat.
The main reason they gave the echo boxes of Hecate is simply to respect the grind of the old Players who prolly grinded a whole set of the old echoes for Yinlin, Zhezhi or mortefi, so that they can still get a decent buff for minimal effort.
IMHO tacet fields needs to have options for rewards.
We should be able to pick if we want:
1)Mix like we have now of EXP, echo and tuners
2)x3 EXP only
3)x3 echos only
4)x3 tuners only
And 3cost echos from tacet field must contain on set element for at least 1 of them. (glacio dmg for glacio set)
I've been playing since launch, and only my Jinhsi has finally been able to reach 80/280 Crit while my other characters are stuck at 50/230 Crit. I agree that echo farming is pretty terrible, but it's the min maxing part that's the worst. They really need to bring down the Waveplate Energy cost for Tacet Fields down to 40 or at least permanently double the rewards and implement a system where you can reroll the substats of your echos because we're close to a year and Kuro still hasn't addressed the problem yet.
I agree that the echo system needs improvement, but I'd like to shift the convention a little bit. What makes grinding in some games feel good? Dungeon crawls (Diablo/Path of Exile), RPGs (Monster Hunter and Nioh 2), MMOs (WOW/RuneScape), Rougelikes (Dead Cells/Hades), First and third person shooters (Destiny and Helldriver), simulators (Mine Craft and Terraria). All of these games are played for the grind, so why not look to them to help fix the echo system? Because the RNG can be a pain in those games too, but we live the grind away. What do y'all think?
Everyone is forgetting they are playing a mobile casino game. Its been disguised very well that y'all feel like its a game. Just because youre playing on console/pc. They absolutely can charge US$10 for a skin, US$20 for unlocking a character and completely remove the gacha element. Every other game exists just fine on their merit alone and customer dedication. Eg. Apex, Call of Duty, Marvel Rivals, Final Fantasy and many more examples. Wuwa would be an amazing game if it were not Gacha. But gacha players are so brainwashed that they think that its perfectly ok to be artificially time gated and Spend US$200 and not get what youre seeking to get. Its dumb, were not playing black or Red roulette. It should be a video game.
I am impartial to this “issue” because I have not faced it yet. I generally get double crit subs if I roll like 4-7 times. I farm for echos like maybe 2 times per entire patch. Maybe people are unsatisfied with just having double crit while the rest of the subs are useless. Maybe I’m just lucky as hell, but seriously, am I the only one who think nothing of the echo drop system. If I have to farm some more, I farm some more for a couple more days and usually have a bunch to start rolling. The events gives exp and tuners every chance they get. Unless you’re trying to max out multiple characters at once or have just started building a character and want them built instantly, it’s not a problem a little bit of time won’t fix.
holy sh!t, 1,003 premium sealed tube. That will be probably gone if you will be trying to roll for a good substats for your echoes.
The only reason we are running out of exp is because you guys doesn't stop until you get the right stats unlike games like genshin, HSR and ZZZ there's a limit to how many you can get and lvl up per day.
You guys want to get echo easier even though it's already easy people who's talking about it being hard is just lazy and just want to get whatever they want immediately.
As much as I love this game, there's no debate that echo farming sucks ass. The sheer amount of RNG involved, from trying to the right set and main stat to rolling for the desired sub stats, the whole process is extremely frustrating. It's time-consuming and can lead to burnout, fast.
To mitigate the issue, I've been saying that WuWa needs to implement some sort of stat selector feature. Giving players the option to select the desired main stat or, better yet, the option to adjust one sub stat after rolling would be a game changer. It's a feature that already exists in other gacha games and would be a major QoL improvement to the overall game.
I wish unleveled echos would stack, that would solve the bag space, there is no need that each echo should waste one space
Either make the desired main/sub stats more easily obtainable or make the sub stats you get more higher values. Implementing both of these will be a big W.
1) Remove the lower rolls for the echoes. For example they should just remove those low 6.3, 6.9, 7.5 crit rate rolls and just make it so that if you get crit rate you'll get a higher value like 8.1, 8.7, 9.3, 9.9 crit rate rolls. This keeps the rates to get the stat unchanged but the rewards are much better making it easier and faster for players to get better echoes.
2) Just give us some system so that we can select the main/sub stats of echoes or maybe make a targeting system for tacet fields or for a character specifically, meaning if I'm doing aero + glacio tacet field then aero echoes will have a 50% chance for 3 cost dropping with aero dmg boost with like a hard pity of 2. Similarly the glacio ones will have higher chance of glacio dmg boost.
This is a quick comment, I didn't go in depth or think about it that much but this is something they can improve and implement.
the number of 6.3 CR and 12.6 CrD i have is driving me nuts. my carlotta is stuck with low crit rate even with 4 cost CR
I agree with some stuff but other things was the OP just malding that they got bad rng.
1. Yes bosses need to reset. I hate waiting for them. I don't have the same game time I used to.
2. Yes they need better selectors. The 1.0 echoes I already have main stat double crit farmed up. It's low-key useless other than to gamble for higher rolls. The chests aren't it anymore.
3. Echo XP definitely feels lacking, but I'm not entirely sure if it's for the reason people say it's for. There is a good chunk of echo XP on the table. The problem is a lot of it is time locked behind end game stuff or events and the sheer number of echoes you get. It feels bad to have a massive bank saved up of echoes but no XP because you already rolled like 20.
My main issue with point 3 is people saying it's worse than xyz game. No, incorrect. It feels bad in context of itself. The reason why GI, HSR, and all other gacha games don't feel bad is because you basically never get any gear worth rolling so you bank up a fkton on XP. Echoes are infinite and it'd be difficult to balance an infinite source of XP that wouldn't cause fomo. I'd like something added though to compliment how easy echoes are to get though.
My main issue outside of the good points he made are the 3 cost arguments. Attack percent main stat are just as good (and depending on the character, sometimes better) so don't only focus on on-set, on-element main stat. Save your slightly sub optimal echoes please.
The final thing is you aren't (or shouldn't be) farming echoes 24/7. There will be down time where you do exploration, talent farming, weapon and character level farming etc. you get a surprising amount of good echoes passively. If someone is exclusively farming echoes it would be frustrating but no game has the players exclusively farming gear because in all games it feels like shit. That's why they have all the other stuff to take the edge off.
TL;DR: there is a lot to improve but OP has a skill issue
REMOVE TUNERS I cannot stress enough how useless those things are, its just an arbitrary way of complicating echo lvling and increasing the time spent fking around with echoes. Also 4:27 This is one of the most dogshit implementation yet like why the fk would u make it all Hecate and not even include the fking Empyrean set or the new set? its borderline useless because ur forced to build an off-piece 4 cost with Hecate locking you to a 4-4-1-1-1 set essentially, sure that is good for super early players but it doesnt benefit the vets whatsoever.
Bettering the drop rate the would increase the satisfaction rate. Greater satisfaction rate = enjoyable. We all love spending more time when it's Enjoyable. Period.
I hope the may us grind for echoes but not for substats and character progression. PGR literally has virtually no RNG for its memories or if it has, there's a way to pick and choose specific stats you like. It's better since instead of mindless grinding, they offer us an insane amount of permanent/ event content to spend our time with instead of grinding.
Maybe add turn-based pokemon-like permanent minigame and the phantom collection system. And a very miniscule amount of grinding for main and substats with a way to guarantee which stat we like.
I feel like the purpose of RNG is to prolong playtime which is stupid as hell. They should make repeatable content instead of relying on RNG cause it's less fun than actually playing the game.
Again, so far I still find the system far better than some Hoyo games but why should they stoop as low. They need to go above and beyond.
6:50 I wouldn't say they're the worst thing to farm specially when they give selectable chest for some sets. And even without them, there are so many avenues to get them. The issue is echo exp and substats farming. Mainstats are quite reasonable to farm. I still play Genshin and if the echo system is bad, the artifact system is worse at least based on my experience building Mavuika and Citlali. The hing with Genshin is, we shit the mainstat picker but it actually helped me once cause it's hell farming for elemental goblet in Genshin.
Substat reroll solves everything atleAst 2-3 slots. Also people are exaggerating when saying its the worst system ever. Some can even take a year to have decent piece on some game. That said, we definitely need to improve this
The RNG kills the echo system more than the lack of echo exp does but if they would implement an item that can reroll unwanted stats I think that might alleviate the frustration, I’ve had to trash near perfect echos just cause it was missing a Crit rate or Crit Dmg which is heartbreaking to do. I have faith in Kuro though, they will listen eventually.
when i have more than enough tuners + credits to level my items but constantly running out of EXP ? ridiculous. we have to be honest, it feels like shit. things would be fixed if they 1) took away tuners or 2) let us level echos with unused echos
Getting echo xp tubes is the real deal here painful I'll u that😭😭😭
I don't think it's that bad. The main limitation is a self-imposed one. If you've made up a fiction in your head that you *need* double crit on all 5 echoes, yeah, you're in for weeks of farming. Maybe it's cuz I'm an MMO player, but the amount of farming Wuwa demands of you to be able to clear the content is not that great. It's not even that difficult to begin with. Getting crit + attack (which is all you really need in all honesty) on an echo, takes like 10 tries at most. Let us also not forget that you COULD use an ATK 3-cost, or 44111 and lose like 1% damage. But hey, gacha players are greedy, and will complain when their greed doesn't pay off.
Maybe if you don't play the game for anything except endgame combat, you don't explore, you don't kill enemies along the way, you don't do tacet fields - then yeah, it's gonna feel like a chore. Echoes are the only thing you can use to improve your stats once everything else is maxed out, so of course it's going to be designed to be something you can iterate on over weeks and months.
My problem is that I have too many echoes and not enough echo xp to level them. I feel the rate at which you get echoes is good enough. Maybe too much because I have to clear out my maxed out inventory too often.
i'm still waiting for the time that we can use those atk, atk% 4cost echoes.. i wish kuro will release a character that will not mainly focus on crit stats but other stats as well... or might as well put a ceiling for crit stats where it will not go higher after reaching a certain point..
The rng on the stats is the worst part, if that was fixed the rest wouldn't even be an issue. Sadly i don't think they will ever change this.
Wrong dude with all due respect. Its waveplates that timegate all progression keeping you from farming xp, echo xp, tuners and echoes all day to progress.
@@mazethemercenary Sadly, stamina system is the one thing that gacha games will NEVER remove. I'm pretty it's because of China's regulation about video game playtime.
@regex2660 I would love to get industry word on that because last i noticed china make Blackmyth Wukong and other games? I feel its just when devs want a casino money printing machine and they use mobile players because the games (used to be if you're not shooting for top 10) cheap to develop. (2D animation, turn based, tower defence, autoplay etc) and have the largest reachable market because everyone in a developed country (with money) has a mobile phone. Mobile players who don't game on console/pc fall for the marketing strategies as they don't know any better. They also know they are selling global with global having its own version and localisation so the waveplates could be removed but they don't. Unfortunately its more likely that it won't be removed because you'd be surprised just how many whales are maxing characters and how much those players contribute to the revenue as a whole.
As 10 cent has now purchased Kuro its now a public company (I'm not 100% on that) which means it will have to report earnings at the shareholders meetings. If I double check and 10 cent is private then womp womp we will never know.
@regex2660 Mobile games often use stamina systems primarily as a monetization strategy, allowing developers to encourage players to make in-app purchases to replenish their stamina and continue playing, while also controlling the pace of gameplay and preventing players from burning through content too quickly; essentially creating a reason for players to return to the game regularly even if they only have a short play session.
i don't mind the grinding as i don't own many five stars characters to be concerned BUT ONE THING i'm running low on IS ECHO EXP omg that thing is even HARDER to get than ASTRITE
They made a calculation error about endgame, they release gold echo too soon,
The databank too easy to max,
Union level is fine but leveling to LV 90 are too soon.
So the echo resource held back is their last resource to make the game still have some sense of "not enough" to make the game not complete in a sense.
My suggestion is make another tier above gold like 6 star or 7 star or 8 star. Make databank harder to complete like collecting each echo 100x or 500x or something. Make living to 100 harder, more char exp and weapon exp. Then they can release the echo / tunner converter
- Wuwa has better RNG than GI
- Just roll better
- Skill issue
Are something kuroshill would say
I absolutely hate the echo system in this game. I shouldn't have to grind so hard for echo xp tubes then slowly waste them getting really bad rolls.
11:48 yes Ethan, he was making fun of hardcore players as he put it in a bold font :D
If Echo stat farming became easier to get OP stats, someone will make a thread about no contents to play
When we get good things too easy, their value will drop. The enjoyment of getting good stats will be none and it'll be another chore. And someone will just ask perfect stat as default.
Meanwhile I have a crazier hope, set changer lmao
In the end the stat booster farming is a complex matter, to find the perfect balance to please every players is
I still have a shit ton of tuners up to 4k but I'm always low on tubes as rng fucks me with no crit stats on echoes that finally got the main stat i want. I need the shitty base echoes to be converted to exp like any gacha that uses other equipment/relics as mat exp
I just need echo xp increase because grinding even a decent echo set for one unit is 💯 depending on rng,and if you have bad day...prepare to burn bunch 9f echo exp and those echo substat mats like it was water 🗿
More matetials
Or
Lucky/critical level ups like genshin
Or
Being able to transform echoes into level UP materials
Or
Being able to use lvl0 echos to level UP other echoes
Or
A little better crit rates?
They could improve the recycling of echoes with a better filter, adding the option of search: "have/don't have."
Example: Have 3* / Have Spectro sets / Don't have Spectro damage bonus... Better than clicking every single main stat that is not Spectro Damage.
See the next substat it will roll either exact substat or 1 in 3 to still make it random idk, use echoes to upgrade other echoes, gold echoes having 2 selectable/already selected substats would be cool. There are a lot of ways to make echo system better. Also they can change the echo system to 4 set bonus instead of 5 so you can have 1 off piece like genshin because when you get electro bonus on ice piece, it sucks. Adding bunch of echo xp tubes in the character improvement guy (Yhan) can also be an improvement but they need to put a bunch. Another way could be spending 50 tuner to change a substat. You can build a whole new echo with that amount but if you have good substats in already existing echo, why would you try to build another when you can swap 1 that was ruining that echo. Also more tuners pls
So what ? They make their echo system easier to grind so everyone finishes building their characters in 2 days?
It can be frustrating but with the echo boxes they give in events and the recurring tacet field x2, it's pretty fair...
The only thing they should change is the resources cost to lvl up the echoes.
i really wonder what people are doing when they cant build carlotta within 3 weeks. mine was build in week one with 77% cr and 310% cdmg and i havent been farming the overworld since 1.0 - since i can not be bothered anymore to waste my time on boring stuff like this. all i do, when i don't have to farm material for a char i want to build, is farming tacet fields + merging echoes and there is absolutely no issue with tuners, echo xp or getting chars build.
the only issue i see is people who dont understand that other gachas limit the amount of gear you can get on a daily basis to begin with, where wuwa allows people to farm the overworld and use XP and tuners to limit gear progression. you people will never get enough XP or tuners to constantly level every echo you farm in the overworld and all the whining will not change that.
also imagine having perfect gear on day one... lmao.. there is nothing to do in all these gacha games to begin with, if they remove any kind of gear progression players have to work on than there is actually absolutely nothing to work on between patches
here is an easy fix for the 3-costs, just remove all incorrect elemental types for the dedicated elemental sets
doesn't solve stuff like moonlit, but it's a good start, such a waste of time sorting/deleting like glacio% spectro set echos
So I got Roccia just because I wanted to and she is disgustingly stay hungry . I’m sitting at 260/66 with ER of 129 with her battle pass gauntlet and i just finished the last echo yesterday 😂 . I knew what I was in for but I’m hoping in the future this doesn’t happen with account defining resonators …I feel like I lost my soul trying to get good rolls on her 4 piece
How about increasing echo XP and letting use use increasingly more tuners to reroll a substat in an echo? That way you could save a "dead piece" that is just lacking CR or CD
I suggest wait until new endgame content releases with weekly reset or smth, otherwise we'll feeling burnout or bored due to able maximize stats on Day 1 character release..
Honestly giving tuners another purpose would be better for the echo system overall, there is no need for them to exist just to give substats to your echoes
How is lucky based mechanics a skill issue? There are really dumb people. A bunch of gacha people are so used to the bad mechanics that they think people asking for improvements are despicable. I cant even play my other characters since I already have a skill issue in rolling for my mains.
The Hecate box, i think its because the hecate you kill, only drops the new sets. so in order to give you the other sets too, they made that box.
Otherwise you could only have hecate on new set , and since its a "off field" echo damage boost, its cool to get it of all elements without having to farm it forever.
You can still get the new set by farming the boss like any other bosses. annoying.. sure, but nothing different from before.
The onyl reason why people complain about echo exp is because thoae stupid people grind multiple characters at the same time instead of just focusing on one
I think everyone here has at least obtained 2000 echoes, which means you also all have had to delete echoes manually or batch echoes
i only have 2 limited dps because of this rng it's preventing me to pull more cuz it's very hard to build a character on my cursed account if rerolling substats is a bad thing how about transferring a set of substats with a cost of something so we can tune in peace even on a def,hp% 3 cost echo until we get a satisfied result and transfer it to what our character needs?
Yeah farming 3 cost and 4 cost is so bad and when u get correct main stat it rolls no crit so ur back to grinding. Even if you farm everyday the echo exp and tuner limits you.
You can pick any substats you want in wuwa. Of course, I'm lying right? 😂 It costs you just enough tuners (but it's still plenty especially if you want those 9.9+ crit rate in every echo). Don't ask me, I'm just a liar.😂
if Wuwa echo farming is bad then Genshin/HSR/ZZZ farming are WHAT? Bro, you just need to get the right main stat on the right set and that piece is rollable. In the other 3 games, you need to get the right main stat, the right sub stat and has to have good rolls on them. Not to mention the fact that you get the right main stat WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY easier in wuwa, I have got like 35-40 glacio/atk 3 costs on the new ice set, the same amount for the spectro set, try to get those amount in 1 year of playing Genshin or HSR (and you have to get the right sub stat, and roll better as well, just a reminder), and that's just my 1 month
For Genshin and HSR i will agree, however ZZZ has the best system, imo. The first 3 discs always come with a set mainstat, so you need to look for specific stats only on 3 out 6 discs, you need to level those only to lvl 15, also while the substats are still rng the values on the substats are not, meaning there is no rng involved weather you get 2,4,6 etc % but the value % you get is always set the same. There is also Hi-Fi Master copies you get from dismantling useless discs, which you can then use to craft new ones without spending energy and there is Tuner item you can use to guarantee you specific main stat you want. Dismantling discs that rolled bad, also returns a large portion of the level up materials used and the game gives you a generous amount per 60 energy spent to farm those, so it's much much better system overall
@Rin_KitKat good to know, I dont play ZZZ so I was assume they are quite the same, my bad, really sorry. Still, I think Wuwa echo system are more friendly tho.
@@viethoanggamer The fact that you don't have to grind and spent materials to level up the discs all the way to 25 but to 15 instead and pray for good RNG % value on an already RNG substat (also in Wuwa you need to grind unique echos for the set bonus effect, so that's another rng layer on top) already makes ZZZ system objectively more friendly, but sure you are entitled to your own preference and opinion ofc ^^
People when grinding to improve a character is the whole point:
Mfs would go nuts playing any ARPG or MMO.