Please, for any thriller/whodunit writers watching this, listen when she says readers don't like when we have no chance of figuring out who the killer is. I have been reading this genre since middle school and I am well seasoned in picking out the bad guy early on. THIS IS NOT A BAD THING! THIS DOES NOT RUIN THE STORY IN ANY WAY! (if anything, it shows you foreshadowed correctly). Even if I guess who it is in the fifth chapter, you still have the ENTIRE book to put me on edge waiting for the good guys to figure it out. I didn't pick up your book solely to learn who the villain is! I picked it up to discover how they impact the main character(s) and ultimately, see how/if they get caught. There is still a story to tell--and I want to read it even if I figured out who's responsible!
TIMESTAMPS: 0:00 introduction 1:14 set-up/status quo 2:58 disruption of status quo 3:27 discovery about change in status quo (building tension) 3:53 hint of danger 4:53 brush with authority 5:20 decision to investigate (break in to act 2) 7:00 introduction of subplot 8:33 first point of investigation 9:58 middle: organic investigation points 13:13 deadends and reversals 13:39 second brush with authority 14:20 midpoint turn (twist...! and shout?) 16:22 flurry of investigation 16:42 main character starts to get lost in their investigation 17:25 third brush with authority 18:08 another twist (break into three) 19:50 main character heads into the danger zone 21:24 side character becomes suspect 22:46 run into arms of danger 23:20 bad guy closes in / hint of death 24:10 confrontation and revelation 25:04 dark night of the soul 25:26 confrontation: the sequel 26:02 another twist 27:27 big finish 28:10 resolution breather 28:58 final, micro twist 31:02 conclusion
I’ve been plotting a time travel murder mystery and when she was saying the partner in crime is usually very connected to the victim I burst out laughing since mine is the victim.
Ooh, that sounds like it could be a good twist. if the partner in crime was pretending to be a close friend but it turns out they were actually the victim so in present day they were technically dead and the MC couldn't have a relationship with them..
I'm writing a mystery, not necessarily a thriller, but I'll definitely be incorporating some of these beats in order to up the tension. Thank you so much, Alexa! You've called me to a higher standard in my writing and I'm grateful for it!
I just wanted to say thank you for that lengthy description for the 'dark night of the soul' beat. I was so impressed I typed it all out. It made me see where to go with my own story (that I've been struggling with for months after charging right up to this point in the narrative). I now see Hitchcock was right about the audience's need to know something the main character doesn't for effective suspense to be created. And that means I have to break away from the dumb idea I had to tell the story entirely from the main character's point of view. This will also enable me to address the issue I have with my sidekick character seeming shallow because we never get to hear her inner monologue or take on situations.
This video couldn't have come at a more perfect time! I'm about to jump into draft 2 of my first thriller, so this definitely gives me some good things to think about.
My thriller is already outlined (and I used all the techniques from your channel so thank you so much for making it easier)but I revisited this video bc I wanted to check I had everything right, and tbh just by listening to it I have the urge to start writing the story so thanks for these videos bc not only they are helpful but also very inspiring!
This is officially the most helpful video I have watched, on this channel, to date! (probably because I write in this genre) Very nicely broken down, thank you!
A little intimidated by the delicate dance, but I did have a pretty good idea of a twist involving my foil while watching this! Thanks! All your videos are so helpful!
Your 50% talk was so true! I give all stories up to half of the book to pull me in. I don't care what happens at the end, if you haven't gotten me by the halfway point I'm putting it down and not gonna pick it back up. I don't need EVERYTHING at 50%, I just need SOMETHING.
This helps explain what exactly isn't working in SJM's new book. I'm about 60% through and have been consistently bored the entire book. It's spending too much time on attempting to develop the romance and not enough on having an engaging mystery
This is actually such a helpful video. I am selfishly so pleased you got into writing thrillers because although I've always loved your videos, I've never planned to write any YA/romance. This video helped me realize that my current project resembles a thriller a lot better than I thought it did, which is very exciting.
I have just began writing my thriller. I am a published writer of one short story. I knew most of what you are saying. However, you gave me some great ideas. Thank you so much. I can see that you are very knowledgeable. Wonderful JOB! Wish me luck.
Loved this video. Very helpful. I would love to hear more about structure that has this sort of commentary on variations and how you can use beats differently depending on your story. I am working on an urban fantasy, not strictly a thriller, but I can see a lot of applications of these beats in my story.
So now I'm watching this over and over, trying to see how it applies to my story (holy whacked out idea of what a story is, that I had before I watched this - revamp! 😳) Trying to learn it so it is intrinsic to me, so that I don't have to reinvent the wheel every time I go to write something. Thank you thank you for this vital instruction!
I finally decided to dabble in thriller and have been terrified. I know they're so intricate and it can be easy to not pace things right. Found this video at the perfect time! Thank you so much for sharing. :)
This video and the plotting a thriller backwards video has led to a MAJOR breakthrough for my thriller! I was stuck in “I have a very messy first draft that I pantsed and now I need to figure out to make it work” and I know exactly how it’s going to end, and a fantastic line of investigation for the muddy middle. I am so thankful for these spectacular videos!
One element in which I'm weaving a far longer and sustained mystery(right up to the denouement before the ending) is pieces(however small) to a puzzle and why certain characters behave the way they do in scenes or an object or an idea told in some way, and ultimately what it means for the character in the now or down the line. Not traditionally "thriller" but it still contains the breadcrumbs of what conceals one.
An interessting thing to do is let the investigator come to a very wierd conclusion where you think, why/how the hell did they come up with that, but let it be a hint to their own dark secrets, so in retrospect it totaly makes sense, why they thought this way. . . .like with a good plottwist, it should not bee seen comeing but has to make sense so one layes the hint in a way, that people miss it over focusing on something else at the moment.
This is a great video! I didn't realize my story was a thriller until this video. I am writing a traditional and urban fantasy with a shifting timeline. I had intended to have a thriller subplot but as I was writing it, something felt off. Now I know what it was. The thriller elements need to take a more front-and-center role. They are the glue that holds my two stories together. Tha k you for the ah-ha moment.
Hello Alexa, I am writing a "long 18 year mystery" and am worried about keeping momentum going and stakes high enough that readers still care for that long. If you have any advice for me at all, I would really appreciate it as I can't seem to find advice on long mystery writing anywhere. Happy to hear other's suggestions of authors who are known for their "long mysteries" too. Thanks!
I throw in this Playlist on from time to time. Helps me brainstorm but wanted to point out something listening to this after having read the Ivies: *SPOILERS FOR THE IVIES* You talking about keeping the reader guessing until the last second instantly made me think of Avery. You did such a great job as I was guessing the whole time.if she had done it or not - and then even when we knew she hadn't you still had me guessing on if she was going to side with Olivia or not. Bravo!
i thi k you are talking about writing a book but you could read the manga for Monster or watch the anime. its a great thriller and has like A to Z plots that are great
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS! You probably won't read this comment as this video is from last year but I decided to turn my YA science fiction idea into a thriller and this excellent executed explanation ist just what I needed. I wrote down everything and connected each beat with what I already have and it just makes totally sense! Now I'm ready to actually start the project - thank you so much! By the way, loved The Ivies, amazing read! :)
What would you say are the beats for a thriller that isn't mystery/crime/psychological thriller, but an action/adventure/conspiracy/military thriller? I can see a lot of overlap, but also some differences, where an action thriller has the elements of overcoming dangers (whether it's surviving the scenery, fighting the enemy, being in battle) moreso than uncovering a secret/catching a criminal
First. Thank you so much for your videos! You have truly been such a help to me as I navigate this new world of writing. Not sure if my question has to do with beats but... If you have a twist or micro twist, that your main character is actually the "bad guy" will that make the reader feel like the narrator was unreliable? How can you make it so they don't think that way?
Another question: Can the main character decide he's in over his head and try to back out only to discover he can't? Maybe now he's got the bad guy's attention now so it's too late....
Is there a convention on beats for every genre? Cause I was under the impression that beats applied to all stories equally. Is there a video like this for epic fantasy? Or would that be the classic save the cat beats?
Do you have any thoughts on thriller duologies or thriller series? I feel like I never see them, the only ones I know of is "One of us is lying" and "One of us is Next" by Karen M. McManus (it's on my TBR!) And "The Outliers Series" by Kimberly McCreight (also on my TBR). And I know detective thriller mysteries are often series (where the cop/detective has multiple books, but each book is a different mystery/case with new characters.) That's not what I mean though. I'm talking about a real continuation like you would see in sci-fi or fantasy. Am I just not looking hard enough or does it go against the whole idea of a thriller?
Curious about this too. But, I've seen things that read like thrillers just labeled just as 'mystery' novels rather than thrillers specifically-- they have as much tension and suspense, it's just that they're far less likely to have an narrator who is so unreliable as to be the killer. The other difference is they allow for more build up of a specific character, usually a specific detective. So maybe that's the reason it feels like they're rare, is that they're not they're just labeled differently? (when in practice they can be very similar in feeling as a reader)
Great points, all of them. I love your presentation and personality. ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ 5-star video! Question: I assume you're more plotter than pantser. What is your plotting weapon of choice? Spreadsheet (Excel), paper notebook, whiteboard, software?
do either of these characters become suspects? Is one the foil? (note: i recommend one foil). Do either of these characters help up the stakes during the dark nights of the soul or involved? In the end, whether or not it's too many characters depends on how much page time you give each of them and whether or not they are a essential parts of the delicate dance :)
Ah, so I'm back here listening on repeat to indelibly imprint the knowledge on my brain. And it literally PAINS me to have to make my oh too good, swoon worthy sidekick implicit in the heinous deeds! 😮 But hey, that will make it all the more fun to write. 😂
Alexa! I have a question that you’ve brought up before but I don’t believe you’ve made a post about it. The line between Thriller and Horror is sorta blurred (everything is being called a thriller it seems). Can you pinpoint where these two genres differ and where they are the same. I’m writing a draft of a queer horror novel-that def has thriller notes in it-but when I’m querying I don’t want to place it into a genre by mistake and therefore not get the attention of the right agent. Thanks!
I HIGHLY recommend reading the I Hunt Killers series by Barry Lyga for an excellent YA thriller series. The story and characters are very unique and dynamic and it has a heavy psychological element to its crime who-dun-it element. Will warn you, it’s graphic, so if that bothers you don’t read it; but none of the gore is put there just for shock value. All of it serves a bigger purpose.
I think so. It’s a pretty common trope. And it’s your book. It can be anything you want it to be! These are just helpful tools that you can use to make your story move smoothly. Best of luck!
Okay, so I wanted to get y’all’s opinion. Does this sound interesting? I have a woman who works in human trafficking who observes her victims, makes herself seem vulnerable and then takes them. She however seems progressive, mentally strong, bubbly, ect. Then we have a man who is down on his life and meets her, and changes for her to be better, she will slowly take control of his life so he can’t get away. The readers already know who she is, but the man doesn’t, and they get to recognize this toxic relationship. The only reason why though is because they know who she is. So basically it’s suppose to demonstrate toxic relationships in a thriller/horror fashion. What do you think?
This couldn’t have come at an better time. I’m working through my own thriller and have been jumping around my beats feeling inadequate with my story. Thanks to this video I feel good with my beats again! 😁 You’re awesome, Alexa!!
Hey I’m a new novelist and your videos have been so so helpful! I’m trying to write my novel, but I’m trying to keep the main characters gender ambiguous, but I don’t know how to go about it? Any advice? Thanks so much! And please stay healthy and safe!
Use gender neutral pronouns all through your book ("ze"/"zir" or similar, there are some already in rare use in English)? This will be off putting for many, sure, but also a possible selling point for some. Ooor... learn Finnish and write your book in Finnish, we already have only one word for "he"/"she" :p
Set the story up as first-person and only have other characters refer to them directly, so you use names and you/your when others address the POV character.
@@MelissaTreglia I'm aware, and I guess I should have mentioned it as well. In my experience, though, "they" can feel limiting as a writer and frustrating to use in a story. It is certainly an option and many people prefer "they" as their pronoun irl, but I know that as a reader, personally, I would prefer different pronouns for singular and plural in a story.
I beta read a novel for someone who opted for "they/them" and I really struggled. Every time I read those words in the context of gender my brain just... stopped. It threw me out of the story every time it happened. And maybe that is just a matter of not seeing they/them used much in novels (yet) or could have just been me, but just bear that in mind as you write. I ended up having to just pick he/him or she/her for each chapter and swap it in then re-read it in order to pay attention to anything BUT those pronouns. Maybe you could use perspective to avoid the pronouns altogether? Like if it is always in 1st person and the other characters use the characters' names when in the picture.... maybe you could minimize the jarring impact to the reader with the neutral pronoun.
I want to put some lyrics of the song that really fits in my story, but I don't know when I should put the lyrics. Also, is it okay if there's some lyrics in my story?
Your publisher would need to pay for the license for the lyrics to be used. Dependent on how famous it and also who the publisher is (and their budget), you can get away with it. However, best thing is to start writing your own lyrics instead.
Thanks Elle Davis for the Timestamps! You read my mind -- Miss Donne is such a great presenter but without a breakdown, it just starts to become word soup after awhile.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
Please, for any thriller/whodunit writers watching this, listen when she says readers don't like when we have no chance of figuring out who the killer is. I have been reading this genre since middle school and I am well seasoned in picking out the bad guy early on. THIS IS NOT A BAD THING! THIS DOES NOT RUIN THE STORY IN ANY WAY! (if anything, it shows you foreshadowed correctly).
Even if I guess who it is in the fifth chapter, you still have the ENTIRE book to put me on edge waiting for the good guys to figure it out. I didn't pick up your book solely to learn who the villain is! I picked it up to discover how they impact the main character(s) and ultimately, see how/if they get caught. There is still a story to tell--and I want to read it even if I figured out who's responsible!
100%. I feel like this is a good example of vicarious suspense. We know the details, but the characters don't.
TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 introduction
1:14 set-up/status quo
2:58 disruption of status quo
3:27 discovery about change in status quo (building tension)
3:53 hint of danger
4:53 brush with authority
5:20 decision to investigate (break in to act 2)
7:00 introduction of subplot
8:33 first point of investigation
9:58 middle: organic investigation points
13:13 deadends and reversals
13:39 second brush with authority
14:20 midpoint turn (twist...! and shout?)
16:22 flurry of investigation
16:42 main character starts to get lost in their investigation
17:25 third brush with authority
18:08 another twist (break into three)
19:50 main character heads into the danger zone
21:24 side character becomes suspect
22:46 run into arms of danger
23:20 bad guy closes in / hint of death
24:10 confrontation and revelation
25:04 dark night of the soul
25:26 confrontation: the sequel
26:02 another twist
27:27 big finish
28:10 resolution breather
28:58 final, micro twist
31:02 conclusion
Thanks for this!👍🏻
This really helps as a reference for when I am writing!
Yes, thank you!!
Thank you!
heroine.
I’ve been plotting a time travel murder mystery and when she was saying the partner in crime is usually very connected to the victim I burst out laughing since mine is the victim.
Ooh, that sounds like it could be a good twist. if the partner in crime was pretending to be a close friend but it turns out they were actually the victim so in present day they were technically dead and the MC couldn't have a relationship with them..
Like in that Bruce Willis movie. Not sure if that one came out of a book
@@quick24which film?
@@mare2723 I believe they are referring to the film Looper
I'm writing a mystery, not necessarily a thriller, but I'll definitely be incorporating some of these beats in order to up the tension. Thank you so much, Alexa! You've called me to a higher standard in my writing and I'm grateful for it!
I don't think I'll ever write a thriller but I love this anyways
I was wondering if I should watch it, and your comment sealed it for me, thanks.
Actually I thought the same, but now I may see how many beats I can hit in a short story. Just for practice & fun!
I just wanted to say thank you for that lengthy description for the 'dark night of the soul' beat. I was so impressed I typed it all out. It made me see where to go with my own story (that I've been struggling with for months after charging right up to this point in the narrative). I now see Hitchcock was right about the audience's need to know something the main character doesn't for effective suspense to be created. And that means I have to break away from the dumb idea I had to tell the story entirely from the main character's point of view. This will also enable me to address the issue I have with my sidekick character seeming shallow because we never get to hear her inner monologue or take on situations.
I just took 3 pages of notes on this
I love the beat set you give in this video and they could easily be used in a non-thriller story as well to build tension in other genres.
This video couldn't have come at a more perfect time! I'm about to jump into draft 2 of my first thriller, so this definitely gives me some good things to think about.
My thriller is already outlined (and I used all the techniques from your channel so thank you so much for making it easier)but I revisited this video bc I wanted to check I had everything right, and tbh just by listening to it I have the urge to start writing the story so thanks for these videos bc not only they are helpful but also very inspiring!
This is officially the most helpful video I have watched, on this channel, to date! (probably because I write in this genre) Very nicely broken down, thank you!
A little intimidated by the delicate dance, but I did have a pretty good idea of a twist involving my foil while watching this! Thanks! All your videos are so helpful!
😍😍we need one for YA HORROR!
Your 50% talk was so true! I give all stories up to half of the book to pull me in. I don't care what happens at the end, if you haven't gotten me by the halfway point I'm putting it down and not gonna pick it back up. I don't need EVERYTHING at 50%, I just need SOMETHING.
I want to write a historical mystery so this was extremely helpful. Thank you!
As someone who struggles with the middle of the story, this is the best advice I've ever read about writing. Thank you and subscribed!
Thank you. This was extremely helpful. The structure helped me figure out some major plot points for my story.
Alexa. It's like you knew I needed this today lol thank you!
This helps explain what exactly isn't working in SJM's new book. I'm about 60% through and have been consistently bored the entire book. It's spending too much time on attempting to develop the romance and not enough on having an engaging mystery
It's shocking how many well-known authors seem to have no idea about proper story structure.
This is actually such a helpful video. I am selfishly so pleased you got into writing thrillers because although I've always loved your videos, I've never planned to write any YA/romance. This video helped me realize that my current project resembles a thriller a lot better than I thought it did, which is very exciting.
I have just began writing my thriller. I am a published writer of one short story. I knew most of what you are saying. However, you gave me some great ideas. Thank you so much. I can see that you are very knowledgeable. Wonderful JOB! Wish me luck.
The perfect subject. Your best vid yet Alexa.
Loved this video. Very helpful. I would love to hear more about structure that has this sort of commentary on variations and how you can use beats differently depending on your story. I am working on an urban fantasy, not strictly a thriller, but I can see a lot of applications of these beats in my story.
Thank you so much, I finally finished outlining my mystery novel with the aid of this video
So now I'm watching this over and over, trying to see how it applies to my story (holy whacked out idea of what a story is, that I had before I watched this - revamp! 😳) Trying to learn it so it is intrinsic to me, so that I don't have to reinvent the wheel every time I go to write something. Thank you thank you for this vital instruction!
I finally decided to dabble in thriller and have been terrified. I know they're so intricate and it can be easy to not pace things right. Found this video at the perfect time! Thank you so much for sharing. :)
This video and the plotting a thriller backwards video has led to a MAJOR breakthrough for my thriller! I was stuck in “I have a very messy first draft that I pantsed and now I need to figure out to make it work” and I know exactly how it’s going to end, and a fantastic line of investigation for the muddy middle. I am so thankful for these spectacular videos!
One element in which I'm weaving a far longer and sustained mystery(right up to the denouement before the ending) is pieces(however small) to a puzzle and why certain characters behave the way they do in scenes or an object or an idea told in some way, and ultimately what it means for the character in the now or down the line. Not traditionally "thriller" but it still contains the breadcrumbs of what conceals one.
Thanks! These reminders helped me figure out great twists for my next thriller!! Appreciate your videos.
I feel so understood. This second act is kicking my butt. Thank for this was very helpful
and I feel I can finish my script now lol
You said the setup beat is a couple of beats rolled into one. Can you please do a video where you break it down?
this just helped me flesh out my story sooo much more, thank u so much ur videos are a godsend
An interessting thing to do is let the investigator come to a very wierd conclusion where you think, why/how the hell did they come up with that, but let it be a hint to their own dark secrets, so in retrospect it totaly makes sense, why they thought this way. . . .like with a good plottwist, it should not bee seen comeing but has to make sense so one layes the hint in a way, that people miss it over focusing on something else at the moment.
This is a great video! I didn't realize my story was a thriller until this video. I am writing a traditional and urban fantasy with a shifting timeline. I had intended to have a thriller subplot but as I was writing it, something felt off. Now I know what it was. The thriller elements need to take a more front-and-center role. They are the glue that holds my two stories together. Tha k you for the ah-ha moment.
Very good presentation. You're clear about how it all fits together.
You are very interesting to listen to. I learned so much. Can't wait for more videos!
Thanks I'm going to watch more of your videos. This is helping.
Great video! It's given me awesome ideas that will take my thriller to the next level, so thank you! 👍🏻
Hello Alexa, I am writing a "long 18 year mystery" and am worried about keeping momentum going and stakes high enough that readers still care for that long. If you have any advice for me at all, I would really appreciate it as I can't seem to find advice on long mystery writing anywhere. Happy to hear other's suggestions of authors who are known for their "long mysteries" too. Thanks!
Loved this video!!! Thanks so much for sharing your expertise! I'd love more videos on thrillers and crime dramas!
This is the most helpful video I've ever watched
This was super helpful. Thank you so much.
Do you have any recommendations for books that break down popular thriller tropes?
Loved your video. Got me excited to write!
New subscriber here. I absolutely loved this! Thank you so much for sharing 😊
Just found your channel and I feel late to the party. Thanks for all these videos, they’ve been very helpful ❤
Totally using some of these beats to spice up my non-thriller plots :D
I throw in this Playlist on from time to time. Helps me brainstorm but wanted to point out something listening to this after having read the Ivies:
*SPOILERS FOR THE IVIES*
You talking about keeping the reader guessing until the last second instantly made me think of Avery. You did such a great job as I was guessing the whole time.if she had done it or not - and then even when we knew she hadn't you still had me guessing on if she was going to side with Olivia or not. Bravo!
This video is amazing! Thanks so much
i thi k you are talking about writing a book but you could read the manga for Monster or watch the anime. its a great thriller and has like A to Z plots that are great
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS! You probably won't read this comment as this video is from last year but I decided to turn my YA science fiction idea into a thriller and this excellent executed explanation ist just what I needed. I wrote down everything and connected each beat with what I already have and it just makes totally sense! Now I'm ready to actually start the project - thank you so much!
By the way, loved The Ivies, amazing read! :)
Great info! Is this written up in a blog post or in a book?
What would you say are the beats for a thriller that isn't mystery/crime/psychological thriller, but an action/adventure/conspiracy/military thriller? I can see a lot of overlap, but also some differences, where an action thriller has the elements of overcoming dangers (whether it's surviving the scenery, fighting the enemy, being in battle) moreso than uncovering a secret/catching a criminal
This makes me really want to read The Ivies! If it is even half as good as this video, I am sure it will be amazing. Can't wait for the release!
You know, "Maltese Falcon" fits your beats, including the brushes with authority (LT Dundee).
this is so cool! I never wrote thriller before, and this helps me a lot!
Love your breakdown! Would love your input at sometime in the future on my project!
This is incredibly helpful!
First. Thank you so much for your videos! You have truly been such a help to me as I navigate this new world of writing. Not sure if my question has to do with beats but... If you have a twist or micro twist, that your main character is actually the "bad guy" will that make the reader feel like the narrator was unreliable? How can you make it so they don't think that way?
Thank you for the great synopsis of thriller beats!
Another question: Can the main character decide he's in over his head and try to back out only to discover he can't? Maybe now he's got the bad guy's attention now so it's too late....
This video has been so helpful. Thank you so much!
Is there a convention on beats for every genre? Cause I was under the impression that beats applied to all stories equally.
Is there a video like this for epic fantasy? Or would that be the classic save the cat beats?
Thank you, Alexa. You really know your stuff.
STELLAR.
Thank you for this.
Do you have any thoughts on thriller duologies or thriller series? I feel like I never see them, the only ones I know of is "One of us is lying" and "One of us is Next" by Karen M. McManus (it's on my TBR!) And "The Outliers Series" by Kimberly McCreight (also on my TBR).
And I know detective thriller mysteries are often series (where the cop/detective has multiple books, but each book is a different mystery/case with new characters.) That's not what I mean though. I'm talking about a real continuation like you would see in sci-fi or fantasy. Am I just not looking hard enough or does it go against the whole idea of a thriller?
Curious about this too. But, I've seen things that read like thrillers just labeled just as 'mystery' novels rather than thrillers specifically-- they have as much tension and suspense, it's just that they're far less likely to have an narrator who is so unreliable as to be the killer. The other difference is they allow for more build up of a specific character, usually a specific detective. So maybe that's the reason it feels like they're rare, is that they're not they're just labeled differently? (when in practice they can be very similar in feeling as a reader)
Can't exactly use this format because my thriller isn't a book, has 4 narrators and isn't linear but I still watched it twice lol
Great points, all of them. I love your presentation and personality. ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ 5-star video!
Question: I assume you're more plotter than pantser. What is your plotting weapon of choice? Spreadsheet (Excel), paper notebook, whiteboard, software?
I'm writing a mystery. This is good advise. Wondering if a helper and a love interest is one character too many.
do either of these characters become suspects? Is one the foil? (note: i recommend one foil). Do either of these characters help up the stakes during the dark nights of the soul or involved?
In the end, whether or not it's too many characters depends on how much page time you give each of them and whether or not they are a essential parts of the delicate dance :)
@@montyjose8397 I know you're right. I have to kill one of my darlings. It won't be the sexy hero.
Ah, so I'm back here listening on repeat to indelibly imprint the knowledge on my brain. And it literally PAINS me to have to make my oh too good, swoon worthy sidekick implicit in the heinous deeds! 😮 But hey, that will make it all the more fun to write. 😂
Super helpful, thanks!
Q How do I write an original thriller when the formula is so chapped?
A Use formulaic expectations to trick reader.
I wrote a mystery once and omg I made all the mistakes and hit most of the beats
Thank you, this is so helpful!
This is so helpful!
Alexa! I have a question that you’ve brought up before but I don’t believe you’ve made a post about it. The line between Thriller and Horror is sorta blurred (everything is being called a thriller it seems). Can you pinpoint where these two genres differ and where they are the same. I’m writing a draft of a queer horror novel-that def has thriller notes in it-but when I’m querying I don’t want to place it into a genre by mistake and therefore not get the attention of the right agent.
Thanks!
I HIGHLY recommend reading the I Hunt Killers series by Barry Lyga for an excellent YA thriller series. The story and characters are very unique and dynamic and it has a heavy psychological element to its crime who-dun-it element. Will warn you, it’s graphic, so if that bothers you don’t read it; but none of the gore is put there just for shock value. All of it serves a bigger purpose.
I would love to hear your breakdown of Se7en!
Hello, does this work for film and screen plays?
Do you think it’s appropriate to introduce the b story before the inciting incident?
I would love to read one of your books :)
Can the 'helper' character start as a low-scale rival that becomes a friend because of mitigating circumstances?
I think so. It’s a pretty common trope. And it’s your book. It can be anything you want it to be! These are just helpful tools that you can use to make your story move smoothly. Best of luck!
If only I had seen this video five months ago, sigh. Thank you Alexa xx
This is great! Thanks!
Useful stuff, thanks!
Superb video!
Okay, so I wanted to get y’all’s opinion. Does this sound interesting? I have a woman who works in human trafficking who observes her victims, makes herself seem vulnerable and then takes them. She however seems progressive, mentally strong, bubbly, ect. Then we have a man who is down on his life and meets her, and changes for her to be better, she will slowly take control of his life so he can’t get away. The readers already know who she is, but the man doesn’t, and they get to recognize this toxic relationship. The only reason why though is because they know who she is. So basically it’s suppose to demonstrate toxic relationships in a thriller/horror fashion. What do you think?
This couldn’t have come at an better time. I’m working through my own thriller and have been jumping around my beats feeling inadequate with my story. Thanks to this video I feel good with my beats again! 😁 You’re awesome, Alexa!!
Awesome video!Thank you for the tips! :) xx
Could you provide a link for the Blake-Snyder beat list?
It's readily avail on line.
I’m writing Mystery/Thriller/Science Fantasy
A thriller is not necessarily 'who done it'. The Jason Bourne stories are thrillers, but they are not 'who done its'.
Alexa Donne: you need a denouement.
Me: *eyetwitch*
This is gold
Hey I’m a new novelist and your videos have been so so helpful!
I’m trying to write my novel, but I’m trying to keep the main characters gender ambiguous, but I don’t know how to go about it? Any advice? Thanks so much! And please stay healthy and safe!
Use gender neutral pronouns all through your book ("ze"/"zir" or similar, there are some already in rare use in English)? This will be off putting for many, sure, but also a possible selling point for some. Ooor... learn Finnish and write your book in Finnish, we already have only one word for "he"/"she" :p
@@ea3175 "They" is a gender neutral pronoun, and can work as singular or plural.
Set the story up as first-person and only have other characters refer to them directly, so you use names and you/your when others address the POV character.
@@MelissaTreglia I'm aware, and I guess I should have mentioned it as well. In my experience, though, "they" can feel limiting as a writer and frustrating to use in a story. It is certainly an option and many people prefer "they" as their pronoun irl, but I know that as a reader, personally, I would prefer different pronouns for singular and plural in a story.
I beta read a novel for someone who opted for "they/them" and I really struggled. Every time I read those words in the context of gender my brain just... stopped. It threw me out of the story every time it happened. And maybe that is just a matter of not seeing they/them used much in novels (yet) or could have just been me, but just bear that in mind as you write. I ended up having to just pick he/him or she/her for each chapter and swap it in then re-read it in order to pay attention to anything BUT those pronouns. Maybe you could use perspective to avoid the pronouns altogether? Like if it is always in 1st person and the other characters use the characters' names when in the picture.... maybe you could minimize the jarring impact to the reader with the neutral pronoun.
Can you use these beats for suspense novels? If not could you make a video about suspense novel beats?
Yep can definitely use these for suspense! There will be points of investigation, helper characters, hints of danger, building up of tension, etc.
Sick beats.
I want to put some lyrics of the song that really fits in my story, but I don't know when I should put the lyrics. Also, is it okay if there's some lyrics in my story?
Your publisher would need to pay for the license for the lyrics to be used. Dependent on how famous it and also who the publisher is (and their budget), you can get away with it. However, best thing is to start writing your own lyrics instead.
Thanks Elle Davis for the Timestamps! You read my mind -- Miss Donne is such a great presenter but without a breakdown, it just starts to become word soup after awhile.
This is so overwhelming. Sounds good but I'm not ready for this step. I just want people that change into animals. 😆
the % or page number expectation has always felt like bullshit to me