I absolutely loved your comparison. Many presenters blather on needlessly. You get to the point, and you explain things incredibly well. Very professionally done, and so informative. Both aircraft are works of art, and particularly yours. Nicely done!
This video is the most in-depth comprehensive comparison between the Beech 18 and Lockheed 12 that I have ever seen. Very interesting and informative Glenn.! Thank You for a lot of hard work for us to view. Big Thumbs Up gong out to you.!
Great detailed comparison! Really enjoyed learning all about the two as I'm in the market for a Beech 18. The only thing you forgot to mention is the massive price difference between the two and that you can buy multiple Beech 18s for the cost of one Lockheed.
I love BOTH these airplanes, and have for a long time. I have a friend who had a B18 before he retired and it was a magnificent plane. As you do, I LOVE the visibility in the Beech cockpit. And you talked about the difficulty in telling the two apart - that windshield says it all for me. If it looks like a baby DC3 in means Lockheed. That and of course the empennage on the rear. I really enjoyed the great detail of your comparison. As a 6'4" dude myself, I couldn't handle the cockpit of the Lockheed, as beautiful as it is. I suspect a re-work of the headliner could give you some relief at least for your head. Not much to do for your legs. All that being said, if I come across a genie with a few wishes left, I'd ask for a plane that married the fantastic features of both, got rid of the boogers, and made me a plane that was a good marriage of the two. What a great plane that would be! Thanks for this comparison! Loved it!
I am a retired twin piston pounder and absolutely loved this video and all you have shown us and talked about. I owned a Cessna 150 which I restored and is still flying up in IL, N10518. Also has a Piper Apache 235 N4951P, which basically had the Aztec fuselage and similar engines only the Aztec had 250 hp. Think it’s still flying too. They only made 114 or so of these and when I had mine only 52were still in the air. Great plane, lots of power. My Piper had no cowl flaps and an augmenter exhaust system. After I sold them I flew on a Piper Navajo, some time on a King Air 300 as co-pilot and finished flying on a Cessna Golden Eagle 421B. Loved that plane but of course the mechanics hated it. So I can really appreciate the vintage birds. Thanks for bringing us along.
Mr. Hancock thank you very much for your video. I´ve been curious about the diffrences between these two marvellous flying machines as my Dad used to fly the Beech 18 while in the Brazilian Air Force during WWII and flew the Lodestar also in training in the USAAF, I guess in Arizona or Texas AAFBs. Pretty enlighting your Master Class. Keep up the amazing job. Best wishes from Brazil, Marco🤩
Thank you very much for this personal insight into these two remarkable aircraft. Although they are very similar in layout and mission, the thing that strikes me is that the Lockheed seems like the product of a very large, industrial company that has built everything from airliners to military aircraft at this point, which has scaled down its engineering to this level and has brought all the benefits of that technology with it. Whereas, the Beech seems more like a smaller, nearly cottage industry company reaching up to the level of these twins and bringing its interpretation up from very much more basic engineering. Just as you mentioned with the comparison of the two landing gear retraction and extension mechanisms, one totally thought through, simple, effective, and reliable, the other a mix of mechanics that gets the job done, but is very much less elegant, reliable, and simple. The wing spars are another example of true, thought-through engineering versus up-adapting existing methods that worked fine on smaller aircraft, but were an overreach on an airplane on the scale of these twins. Kind of like they just kept patching and adding until they got something that would work, but a knee-high spar cutting right through the fuselage, bisecting the cabin and cockpit? That sort of speaks of a lack of design, instead of the presence of design. The NACA cowling on the Lockheed seems like another example of superior engineering, it effectively forming a Bernoulli tube that creates its own vacuum flow to extract heat from the engine in a very precise, virtually tuned, manner which has to be less drag-inducing than the Beechcraft method of just capturing a bunch of air and releasing what you don't need through the cowl flaps. Both methods work, but one is elegant while the other is crude by comparison. Don't get me wrong, I love Beechcraft airplanes, all of them. I'll never afford an airplane of my own, but if I could choose just one, that is capable of nearly everything, I would want a 90-series King Air hands down. In the final analysis, the production numbers of the two aircraft cannot be ignored. In this case, the Beech wins going away. I'd wager that Lockheed either broke even or lost money on every 12 they built, going to the effort to make sure to have an airplane in this category for their customers who wanted Lockheed engineering, whereas Beech built an entire company from this airplane. Great video. And thank you again for preserving these two beauties and taking the time to share them with us.
In a little town next to a highway in Northern Ontario, there is a Beech 18 on static display. I always think it’s a little sad, a lot like those early jet fighters attached to a post outside an airport or Legion branch. I always thought it must be quite a plane in its day, still trying to be shiny and proud after years out in the harsh weather up there. Thanks for letting me get to know it a lot better.
good video. clear and complete explanations. I love this type of video in which we learn a lot about the mecanisim often specific to different aircraft manufacturers. I have a weakness for the Beach 18 since I had my first flight in this type of plane. It was in 1968 with the Royal Canadian Air Force.
Great video and comparison. I think some people would benefit knowing that the Lockheed uses a long rotating jackscrew (not a worm gear) to actuate the gear... almost foolproof. Same design as the elevator/stabilizer trim on a 737, except open and accessable for inspection/maintenance. Btw, airplanes have seats, not chairs. I know... y'all talk funny in Texas! Lol
Many more Beech 18s were built, the gross weights were increased and then they were abused as freight carriers . Those factors were probably the reason for the spar cracks and the straps. It should be noted that the later model 18s had a much higher cabin and the very last had fuel injection engines. Tricycle gear was factory optioned on the H models. It never looked right. Even though they’re similar the 12 is a better looking plane and yours is absolutely perfect. Thanks for sharing.
im looking at buying a C45, so similar to the beech 18 and your videos have been really informational. Im a helicopter pilot and a A&P working on my fixed wing add ons. your attention to mechanical detail is nice
Thank you for putting this video together. I've always been curious about both these exceptional examples of American aviation design and your video is great. Best wishes to you and your crew. Also great explaination why no one ever lands an 18 except on the mains.
Hey thanks for the comparison. For years I could never differentiate between the two. And when I learn something new, I try to make a mental word play to remember (getting older so I need help). And this one was simple. "Lockheed Lip"! The Lockheed has a Lip on the vertical stab. So easy to make the visual now that I know what to look for. Typically I'm not close enough to see air intakes, door shape, flaps, etc. So great job, nice tour, informative narration, and terrific walk around. Cheers!!!!
Fascinating comparison. I have a couple hundred hours in a very beat-up, tri-gear 18 freighter. The Lockheed looks like what a next-generation 18 would've looked like.
I like the LH panel over the beach and the throttle quadrant as well the beaches got that eye brow window is so cool I would like to have 1 more beside the one that's there.
I'm so happy to see this plane in good hands. The previous owner put a lot of time and love into it. I have flashbacks from the time we painted the stripes and cowls. Then depainted for the Amelia movie, and repainted the stripes again.
Heck we had one of each, way back in the 60s at Moorabbin airport Australia. Flinders Island Airlines Alan Rae and Air Services Australia Harry Wallace. On the 18 we used to have to do a magnaflux inspection every 100 hours as I recall.
The fact there are no ADs on the Lockheed might have something to do with the fact they only built 130 of them rather than the 9000+ Beech 18's that were built. Regardless they are both beautiful and the only thing you need to have my favorite 3 planes is a Cessna 195.
More than likely that is probably true on the AD point, however, I can also say from working on both planes that the Lockheed is a lot better built airplane in terms of systems and structure. All you need to do is look at the two different wing spars to get a taste of it.
Thank you thank you. What a great real-time valid comparison!! Currently keeping my eyes open for a B18/C45. Cost, fuel burn, and I’m assuming handling characteristics all seem within reach but what seems terrifying most to me is maintenance. Very few knowledgeable people in the west (other than Stockton) that I can find.
Looks like those seat cushions on the Lockheed are pretty chunky, any chance you could get some headroom by modifying those? I'd bet that with modern upholstery foams you could take an inch or two out of them and still be comfortable. Given an infinite budget I'd probably think about making a new panel that'd be a bit closer and maybe get rid of those knee obstructions but I dunno if that's practical. (But maybe a new extended center stack that'd put the GPS and autopilot controls in easier reach could be an option?) Cockpit issues aside, the Lockheed is definitely the one I'd want to have. I love the way it looks and feels like a miniature version of an airliner of its day and there's something so cool about the idea of owning a Lockheed product instead of something from one of the more common GA aircraft companies.
The way the NACA cowling works is that it slows down the air that entered the cowl, thereby raising its pressure and the efficiency of cooling. That's also why the carb intake is located there. Then the air exits through a narrow slot at the back, which raises its speed and consequently reduces the total drag of the cowl.
Air intake position: statement of STC ref "hot engine = hot air" (implying reduced density) not prime reason. The prime reason for supressed air induction with in-cowl carb air intake, is the blade root shape - just circular, non aerodynamic. This negative effect on airflow induction pressure was a cause of serious trouble for development of DH88 Comet racer, 1934 GB-AUS air race. The drop in power AND increase in CHT beyond acceptable limits forced DH engineers to urgently fly to France and select Ratier props - rapidly adapting the Comet engines with fragile prop mounts. Note that: DH engineers had previously made trip to US specifically to purchase Hamiltons for the three Comet racer entries and to form licencing production agreement. Thanks for you video. Beautiul machine & thanks Kelly J. Best regards ✈
Incredible comparison. Fantastic detail from a pilot/user perspective. Thank you!. Incredible comparison. Fantastic detail from a pilot/user perspective. Thank you!.
Very good video. It would be interesting to throw a Lockheed 18 Lodestar into the mix as many who aren’t familiar, mistake an L18 for a BE18 and vice versa. Thanks for some very good details.
We had a Beech 18 as a training aid at the A&P school I went to. It was donated because they are prone to corrosion in the spar and it’s a huge expense to keep up. That’s why Beech 18’s are so rare now.
I graduated from Northrop institute of technology in 1962. We also had a Beech 18. Certain Instructors were allowed to take one student into the cockpit while the instructor started the engines. The aircraft was more of a display as students didn't work on it. We did have a Waco bi plane that was used as a teaching airframe and was worked on by most students, including me.
@@timmayer8723 One forgets the 2, Vultee BT-13 airplanes less outer wings, the 1928 Waco Taperwing was a school restoration (N-719E that is still flying as of 2021), their was a Stearman PT-13 that was used for biplane rigging! Oct. 1965 grad from NIT!
It’s interesting to learn the differences between the two aircraft. There is a Lockheed that lives at KLOU in Louisville KY I see it frequently in the sky nearby but don’t know the owner.
That wing box on the model 12 is a beast! Never seen one exposed like that. Small wonder there are no ADs on that. I’ll bet the mechs groan louder than an R985 when a Beech rolls in. Still like the 18 though, even with its necessary extra TLC
So to get a "perfect" plane would be to incorporate the Lockheed wing and horizontal stabilizer and elevator into the Beech, and possibly the landing gear mechanism and fender as well.Installing AmSafe airbag seatbelts and some sort of inflatable horizontal airbag across the bottom of the panel to protect from leg flail injuries in an unexpected sudden stop might be helpful. Finally, Jet Shades for the cockpit to reduce glare and some heat from the sun.
Great comparison of those aircraft. I had always wondered what the differences where. Down here is south FL those old 18's are still running in the Bahamas. I don't see and Lockheed's doing freight. Both cool A/C. Here at PBI we had 2 18's that where retrofitted with the turbines (Garretts?) running freight. I am a radial fan. Thanks for the info. EAA Glenn O >*
What a wonderful video! Two beautiful airplanes! Would you please touch base on their flying characteristics and differences on both? Which one has a better single engine handling through their speed ranges?
My Dad flew mapping for the dams out of Pierre SD in 46-47 and his plane was a C-45-F2B. (military B-18), I have a dozen or so black and whites of his plane and crew inside and out. I wish he was here to watch your video as he would have loved to see the comparison. I gather the British used Lockheed 10s to spy and map Germany before the war. They just shot pictures, hand held, from the inside much the same as they did with the Beech 18 in the US.👁👍 Reconnaissance, most senior units in Army Air Corp/Air Force. 👀😉
Thank you so much for this comparison. I have walked around both aircraft but never seen them together. I always felt the Lockheed was much larger and had larger engines.
A really great video. Loved the side by side comparison. I am surprised they don't have counter rotating props. Do you have much affect with the P factor?
Fortunate man art though ! ✈ and ✈. Ref B18 viz: in fairness to 12a, note that you have modified shields - might be nice to show sometime, orig B18 screen/side window config. So glad I found yr material - subscribed & will view all.
Thank you Sir! I almost think your excellant tour would be similar to what an Ensign in the navy in 36 or 37 would have endured. Im amazed how ressed the instrument panel is on the Lockheed. How on earth can you read those gauges so far away and deep? Its like a spacecraft up in there! I feel for you! How do you not get leg cramps? What relief is there both urinary and leg easement wise? Do you do yoga to stretch out or swim, how do you relieve fatigue? I feel like Ive had a beginers course in 1936 Locheed and Beech.18 flight course! How do you do it? I mean relax and read gauges and see into that cave? Sorry so blunt, its my scandinavian ancestry. I really respect what you must go through! You must really love flying! Your like Neil Armstrong up in that Lem. Between the two the cockpit of the 18 gets my vote for legible gauges. I would think the Electra like being holed up in a tunnel almost blind. You have given me a practical education in antique aircraft! These were the airplanes of my fathers era, not that he ever flew these awkward aircraft. The Texan was as far as I know the most complicated arcraft he flew. Im still amazed at how Amelia Earhart flew such an untowered aircraft as the L-10E. What with the center of gravity behind the front landing gear, reportedly. I still am very much interested in the Lockheed L-10 E, but the 10-A gives me a clue as to how hard it is to fly either of the three. Thank you for educating me on these fastenating aircraft. Yours very truly c.e.7 1 24, U.S.A.😅
I wonder if they have the same engines, is the 18 faster, or the 12? What speed? Does one use more fuel than the other? Thanks for taking the time to make this video.
Thanks for clearing that up. When you shove the throttles fwd, is the howl the same and can you tell any difference with slipstream over empennage w/ 2 or 3? Stupid questions, but it’s best to get the straight dope from someone who knows. Since Matt Younkin is too busy, I needed to ask. thanks so much
First of all, I would like to congratulate you on your great explanation of this beautiful Beechcraft 18 aircraft and also for its wonderful aircraft. Good afternoon Captain... my name is Girão and I am pilot too,actually I have been flying B777 and I’d like to know something about NNP on beechcraft 18, procedures of engine failure in cruise flight level, first actions, and commons mistakes that can lead to accidents. What could you talk about a flight with 700Kgs of cargo, 04:00 hs of autonomy, the ability to fly a single engine while maintaining a FL050 for 45 minutes.... would be a reasonable flight? Thank you in advance for your explanation. Great hug.
My dad flew C-45s on courier flights with the USAF in 1963 out of Hunter AFB, Georgia. He would certainly like this vid. He was 6 foot 4, how did he fit?
I recently looked at a beautiful beech 18 where the guy converted it to a single tail. What are the pluses and minus of each. Unfortunately when I went to put down a down-payment he backed out. Needless to say I was not happy after travelling half way across the country to look at it and take a test flight. Oh well I'll find something soon.
So was the Beech 18 actually sort of an ersatz, cheaper version of the Electra? And is the Electra the plane that you see Prime Minister Chamberlain seen with in newsreels?
I have friends that own both. The biggest advantage I see is you can buy a D-18 for ALOT LESS than a Lockheed 12. I've flown a Twin Beech it alot of fun. I've only sat inside the Lockheed. Both are great airplanes.
I was offered a lockheed 12 in Sydney Australia during 1976 for $30k Au, but it was the overhaul cost of the 2 radials that turned me off, now I made a bad mistake and bought a Bonanza instead
Thats the super charger is it not?on the Loc. Im just an aircraft admire. I remember the prat and whitney photos of dads old navy books. If im wrong I appologize.😅
@@ChrisEbbrsen Yes, they have superchargers. Did I say something different? I hope not. :-). Been a while since I did that so hopefully I didn’t say something wrong.
How do the AC compare with respect to performance and flight characteristics? Handling, control forces, roll rates, stall characteristics, etc. You mentioned a lack of elevator authority in the 18. Do the drooping ailerons on the 12 cause any abrupt breaks at the stall, does it drop a wing, etc. Which is your favorite in the air and why? The outboard horizontal tail extensions on the Lockheed are similar to that on the P-38 and other Lockheed designs, and are not as efficient as the 18’s end plate rudders which act like early winglets if you will. The half moon horizontal tail extensions on the 12 add drag but very little down force since there is no elevator there. In fact, during landing, they may actually add up force. I’ve always thought it was odd that Kelly Johnson did this on many of his designs, one of the few things he did that were not the pinnacle of aerodynamic efficiency.
I absolutely loved your comparison. Many presenters blather on needlessly. You get to the point, and you explain things incredibly well. Very professionally done, and so informative. Both aircraft are works of art, and particularly yours. Nicely done!
This video is the most in-depth comprehensive comparison between the Beech 18 and Lockheed 12 that I have ever seen. Very interesting and informative Glenn.! Thank You for a lot of hard work for us to view. Big Thumbs Up gong out to you.!
I've welded thousands of the 985's...love the radials
Incredible comparison. Fantastic detail from a pilot/user perspective. Thank you!
great tour and explaining, I've flown in both and didn't realize the difference, thanks for sharing.
Great detailed comparison! Really enjoyed learning all about the two as I'm in the market for a Beech 18. The only thing you forgot to mention is the massive price difference between the two and that you can buy multiple Beech 18s for the cost of one Lockheed.
I love BOTH these airplanes, and have for a long time. I have a friend who had a B18 before he retired and it was a magnificent plane. As you do, I LOVE the visibility in the Beech cockpit. And you talked about the difficulty in telling the two apart - that windshield says it all for me. If it looks like a baby DC3 in means Lockheed. That and of course the empennage on the rear.
I really enjoyed the great detail of your comparison. As a 6'4" dude myself, I couldn't handle the cockpit of the Lockheed, as beautiful as it is. I suspect a re-work of the headliner could give you some relief at least for your head. Not much to do for your legs.
All that being said, if I come across a genie with a few wishes left, I'd ask for a plane that married the fantastic features of both, got rid of the boogers, and made me a plane that was a good marriage of the two. What a great plane that would be!
Thanks for this comparison! Loved it!
I was really wondering about this. It is quite an eye opener. They look so alike. Great job explaining everything. Remarkable airplanes!
I am a retired twin piston pounder and absolutely loved this video and all you have shown us and talked about. I owned a Cessna 150 which I restored and is still flying up in IL, N10518. Also has a Piper Apache 235 N4951P, which basically had the Aztec fuselage and similar engines only the Aztec had 250 hp. Think it’s still flying too. They only made 114 or so of these and when I had mine only 52were still in the air. Great plane, lots of power. My Piper had no cowl flaps and an augmenter exhaust system. After I sold them I flew on a Piper Navajo, some time on a King Air 300 as co-pilot and finished flying on a Cessna Golden Eagle 421B. Loved that plane but of course the mechanics hated it. So I can really appreciate the vintage birds. Thanks for bringing us along.
Two lovely airplanes that are a credit to you,thank you for keeping these pieces of aviation history flying.
Mr. Hancock thank you very much for your video. I´ve been curious about the diffrences between these two marvellous flying machines as my Dad used to fly the Beech 18 while in the Brazilian Air Force during WWII and flew the Lodestar also in training in the USAAF, I guess in Arizona or Texas AAFBs. Pretty enlighting your Master Class. Keep up the amazing job. Best wishes from Brazil, Marco🤩
Thank you very much for this personal insight into these two remarkable aircraft. Although they are very similar in layout and mission, the thing that strikes me is that the Lockheed seems like the product of a very large, industrial company that has built everything from airliners to military aircraft at this point, which has scaled down its engineering to this level and has brought all the benefits of that technology with it. Whereas, the Beech seems more like a smaller, nearly cottage industry company reaching up to the level of these twins and bringing its interpretation up from very much more basic engineering. Just as you mentioned with the comparison of the two landing gear retraction and extension mechanisms, one totally thought through, simple, effective, and reliable, the other a mix of mechanics that gets the job done, but is very much less elegant, reliable, and simple.
The wing spars are another example of true, thought-through engineering versus up-adapting existing methods that worked fine on smaller aircraft, but were an overreach on an airplane on the scale of these twins. Kind of like they just kept patching and adding until they got something that would work, but a knee-high spar cutting right through the fuselage, bisecting the cabin and cockpit? That sort of speaks of a lack of design, instead of the presence of design.
The NACA cowling on the Lockheed seems like another example of superior engineering, it effectively forming a Bernoulli tube that creates its own vacuum flow to extract heat from the engine in a very precise, virtually tuned, manner which has to be less drag-inducing than the Beechcraft method of just capturing a bunch of air and releasing what you don't need through the cowl flaps. Both methods work, but one is elegant while the other is crude by comparison. Don't get me wrong, I love Beechcraft airplanes, all of them. I'll never afford an airplane of my own, but if I could choose just one, that is capable of nearly everything, I would want a 90-series King Air hands down.
In the final analysis, the production numbers of the two aircraft cannot be ignored. In this case, the Beech wins going away. I'd wager that Lockheed either broke even or lost money on every 12 they built, going to the effort to make sure to have an airplane in this category for their customers who wanted Lockheed engineering, whereas Beech built an entire company from this airplane.
Great video. And thank you again for preserving these two beauties and taking the time to share them with us.
In a little town next to a highway in Northern Ontario, there is a Beech 18 on static display. I always think it’s a little sad, a lot like those early jet fighters attached to a post outside an airport or Legion branch. I always thought it must be quite a plane in its day, still trying to be shiny and proud after years out in the harsh weather up there. Thanks for letting me get to know it a lot better.
good video. clear and complete explanations. I love this type of video in which we learn a lot about the mecanisim often specific to different aircraft manufacturers. I have a weakness for the Beach 18 since I had my first flight in this type of plane. It was in 1968 with the Royal Canadian Air Force.
Great video and comparison. I think some people would benefit knowing that the Lockheed uses a long rotating jackscrew (not a worm gear) to actuate the gear... almost foolproof. Same design as the elevator/stabilizer trim on a 737, except open and accessable for inspection/maintenance.
Btw, airplanes have seats, not chairs. I know... y'all talk funny in Texas! Lol
Many more Beech 18s were built, the gross weights were increased and then they were abused as freight carriers . Those factors were probably the reason for the spar cracks and the straps. It should be noted that the later model 18s had a much higher cabin and the very last had fuel injection engines. Tricycle gear was factory optioned on the H models. It never looked right.
Even though they’re similar the 12 is a better looking plane and yours is absolutely perfect. Thanks for sharing.
im looking at buying a C45, so similar to the beech 18 and your videos have been really informational. Im a helicopter pilot and a A&P working on my fixed wing add ons. your attention to mechanical detail is nice
Thank you for putting this video together. I've always been curious about both these exceptional examples of American aviation design and your video is great. Best wishes to you and your crew. Also great explaination why no one ever lands an 18 except on the mains.
Very informative & I’m glad you still have the 18
I’m watching right now, but have to comment. I have been waiting for this video from you for a while :)
That Lockheed is a gorgeous airplane, my god!
Hey thanks for the comparison. For years I could never differentiate between the two. And when I learn something new, I try to make a mental word play to remember (getting older so I need help). And this one was simple. "Lockheed Lip"! The Lockheed has a Lip on the vertical stab. So easy to make the visual now that I know what to look for. Typically I'm not close enough to see air intakes, door shape, flaps, etc. So great job, nice tour, informative narration, and terrific walk around. Cheers!!!!
Fascinating comparison. I have a couple hundred hours in a very beat-up, tri-gear 18 freighter. The Lockheed looks like what a next-generation 18 would've looked like.
Wow that was great, I really loved that presentation. Love those “Vintage Twins”. Fly safe.
Well done! Very interesting.
I like the LH panel over the beach and the throttle quadrant as well the beaches got that eye brow window is so cool I would like to have 1 more beside the one that's there.
I'm so happy to see this plane in good hands. The previous owner put a lot of time and love into it. I have flashbacks from the time we painted the stripes and cowls. Then depainted for the Amelia movie, and repainted the stripes again.
So you are the painter?
@@nizexlizzy We had a body shop and had done work for him before. We painted it for him. My partner sprayed it, but we both did all the prep work.
@@pmw6715 Name?
Nice side-by-side comparison!!!
Heck we had one of each, way back in the 60s at Moorabbin airport Australia.
Flinders Island Airlines Alan Rae and Air Services Australia Harry Wallace.
On the 18 we used to have to do a magnaflux inspection every 100 hours as I recall.
Wow I sure learn so much from watching your channel. Thanks for taking the time to put all that together.
Honestly I would expect nothing less from the builders of the SR-71. Lockheed Electra has a fine pedigree, awesome birds both.
Brilliant presentation here.
Enjoyed the show. Thank you for the efforts. Keep 'em flying brother. Stay safe.
Beautiful Planes, especially the Lockheed,
love that look.
Interesting video. And two absolutely beautiful round motor birds. Thanks.
The fact there are no ADs on the Lockheed might have something to do with the fact they only built 130 of them rather than the 9000+ Beech 18's that were built. Regardless they are both beautiful and the only thing you need to have my favorite 3 planes is a Cessna 195.
. . . a Staggerwing and a Spartan Executive would also be nice.
More than likely that is probably true on the AD point, however, I can also say from working on both planes that the Lockheed is a lot better built airplane in terms of systems and structure. All you need to do is look at the two different wing spars to get a taste of it.
Thank you thank you. What a great real-time valid comparison!! Currently keeping my eyes open for a B18/C45. Cost, fuel burn, and I’m assuming handling characteristics all seem within reach but what seems terrifying most to me is maintenance. Very few knowledgeable people in the west (other than Stockton) that I can find.
Great demo. Thanks for posting!
Looks like those seat cushions on the Lockheed are pretty chunky, any chance you could get some headroom by modifying those? I'd bet that with modern upholstery foams you could take an inch or two out of them and still be comfortable. Given an infinite budget I'd probably think about making a new panel that'd be a bit closer and maybe get rid of those knee obstructions but I dunno if that's practical. (But maybe a new extended center stack that'd put the GPS and autopilot controls in easier reach could be an option?)
Cockpit issues aside, the Lockheed is definitely the one I'd want to have. I love the way it looks and feels like a miniature version of an airliner of its day and there's something so cool about the idea of owning a Lockheed product instead of something from one of the more common GA aircraft companies.
You can modify anything on an aircraft, fuel tanks, cushions, engines, control surfaces, wings, tail, gear, etc.
Saw a Lockheed 12 in a film on TCM the other night "Armored Car Robbery" 1950. The bandits tried to escape L.A. at the end in a 12
Glenn , I enjoyed this video very much , you covered many interesting points and your passion for your aircraft is evident , Thanks
The way the NACA cowling works is that it slows down the air that entered the cowl, thereby raising its pressure and the efficiency of cooling. That's also why the carb intake is located there.
Then the air exits through a narrow slot at the back, which raises its speed and consequently reduces the total drag of the cowl.
Thanks for pointing those remarkable diferencies. Now i know how to distinguish between a Beech and a Lockheed. Especially rear tail.
Air intake position: statement of STC ref "hot engine = hot air" (implying reduced density) not prime reason.
The prime reason for supressed air induction with in-cowl carb air intake, is the blade root shape - just circular, non aerodynamic. This negative effect on airflow induction pressure was a cause of serious trouble for development of DH88 Comet racer, 1934 GB-AUS air race. The drop in power AND increase in CHT beyond acceptable limits forced DH engineers to urgently fly to France and select Ratier props - rapidly adapting the Comet engines with fragile prop mounts.
Note that: DH engineers had previously made trip to US specifically to purchase Hamiltons for the three Comet racer entries and to form licencing production agreement.
Thanks for you video. Beautiul machine & thanks Kelly J.
Best regards ✈
Incredible comparison. Fantastic detail from a pilot/user perspective. Thank you!. Incredible comparison. Fantastic detail from a pilot/user perspective. Thank you!.
Hello, I just came across your channel and I've been looking for someone to create a video exactly as you have done. Thanks so much.
Escaping from the cockpit in that plane appears near impossible.
I’d love to hear about your aircraft polishing process. Thanks for the comparison.
Thank you for making the comparison video I enjoyed it very much
Very interesting. I learned a lot. Thanks!
Having flown the 18 in cargo ops back in the day, I found this super interesting, as I know next to nothing about the Lockheed. Thanks for posting!
Great detailed comparison! i love this thank you
Very good video. It would be interesting to throw a Lockheed 18 Lodestar into the mix as many who aren’t familiar, mistake an L18 for a BE18 and vice versa. Thanks for some very good details.
We had a Beech 18 as a training aid at the A&P school I went to. It was donated because they are prone to corrosion in the spar and it’s a huge expense to keep up. That’s why Beech 18’s are so rare now.
I graduated from Northrop institute of technology in 1962. We also had a Beech 18. Certain Instructors were allowed to take one student into the cockpit while the instructor started the engines. The aircraft was more of a display as students didn't work on it. We did have a Waco bi plane that was used as a teaching airframe and was worked on by most students, including me.
@@timmayer8723 One forgets the 2, Vultee BT-13 airplanes less outer wings, the 1928 Waco Taperwing was a school restoration (N-719E that is still flying as of 2021), their was a Stearman PT-13 that was used for biplane rigging! Oct. 1965 grad from NIT!
The later 18's had additional cabin height. You can tell the newer ones because the cabin windows sit higher than the cockpit windows.
It’s interesting to learn the differences between the two aircraft. There is a Lockheed that lives at KLOU in Louisville KY I see it frequently in the sky nearby but don’t know the owner.
Thanks Glenn great video on the differences between the two aircraft
Beautiful planes, great video explaining the differences!!! Thank you for doing that!!!
That wing box on the model 12 is a beast! Never seen one exposed like that. Small wonder there are no ADs on that. I’ll bet the mechs groan louder than an R985 when a Beech rolls in. Still like the 18 though, even with its necessary extra TLC
I have that Lockheed as the background on my computer
So to get a "perfect" plane would be to incorporate the Lockheed wing and horizontal stabilizer and elevator into the Beech, and possibly the landing gear mechanism and fender as well.Installing AmSafe airbag seatbelts and some sort of inflatable horizontal airbag across the bottom of the panel to protect from leg flail injuries in an unexpected sudden stop might be helpful. Finally, Jet Shades for the cockpit to reduce glare and some heat from the sun.
Great comparison of those aircraft. I had always wondered what the differences where. Down here is south FL those old 18's are still running in the Bahamas. I don't see and Lockheed's doing freight. Both cool A/C. Here at PBI we had 2 18's that where retrofitted with the turbines (Garretts?) running freight. I am a radial fan. Thanks for the info.
EAA Glenn O >*
Ref headroom 12a - Recall Beech did a mod from first Bonanza models - making the sort of "recess" you mention. Jaguar & BMW did similar.
This guy sounds like several of my airframe and engine instructors at Northrop institute of technology.
What a wonderful video! Two beautiful airplanes! Would you please touch base on their flying characteristics and differences on both? Which one has a better single engine handling through their speed ranges?
My Dad flew mapping for the dams out of Pierre SD in 46-47 and his plane was a C-45-F2B. (military B-18), I have a dozen or so black and whites of his plane and crew inside and out. I wish he was here to watch your video as he would have loved to see the comparison. I gather the British used Lockheed 10s to spy and map Germany before the war. They just shot pictures, hand held, from the inside much the same as they did with the Beech 18 in the US.👁👍 Reconnaissance, most senior units in Army Air Corp/Air Force. 👀😉
Thank you so much for this comparison. I have walked around both aircraft but never seen them together. I always felt the Lockheed was much larger and had larger engines.
A really great video. Loved the side by side comparison. I am surprised they don't have counter rotating props. Do you have much affect with the P factor?
Great comparison, Thank-you
What can I say... Excellent video & info. Thank you.
Fortunate man art though !
✈ and ✈.
Ref B18 viz: in fairness to 12a, note that you have modified shields - might be nice to show sometime, orig B18 screen/side window config.
So glad I found yr material - subscribed & will view all.
Thanks for a great contrast!!!😊
Very great job of showing the two ships. You might be a Texan, very unpretentious in your presentation. Down to earth.
Sounds like he's from Florida by his accent
Well done, watched the whole thing, it looks like Lockheed was very well built and better engineered.
Thank you Sir! I almost think your excellant tour would be similar to what an Ensign in the navy in 36 or 37 would have endured. Im amazed how ressed the instrument panel is on the Lockheed. How on earth can you read those gauges so far away and deep? Its like a spacecraft up in there! I feel for you! How do you not get leg cramps? What relief is there both urinary and leg easement wise? Do you do yoga to stretch out or swim, how do you relieve fatigue? I feel like Ive had a beginers course in 1936 Locheed and Beech.18 flight course! How do you do it? I mean relax and read gauges and see into that cave? Sorry so blunt, its my scandinavian ancestry. I really respect what you must go through! You must really love flying! Your like Neil Armstrong up in that Lem. Between the two the cockpit of the 18 gets my vote for legible gauges. I would think the Electra like being holed up in a tunnel almost blind. You have given me a practical education in antique aircraft! These were the airplanes of my fathers era, not that he ever flew these awkward aircraft. The Texan was as far as I know the most complicated arcraft he flew. Im still amazed at how Amelia Earhart flew such an untowered aircraft as the L-10E. What with the center of gravity behind the front landing gear, reportedly. I still am very much interested in the Lockheed L-10 E, but the 10-A gives me a clue as to how hard it is to fly either of the three. Thank you for educating me on these fastenating aircraft. Yours very truly c.e.7 1 24, U.S.A.😅
I'm overwhelmed! C.e. usa Thanks Sir!😅
Very nice explanation!
Great video, very informative!
I wonder if they have the same engines, is the 18 faster, or the 12? What speed? Does one use more fuel than the other? Thanks for taking the time to make this video.
Thank you for sharing.
I know we’re a fuel tank is sitting for a Lockheed 12. The fuselage tank from an l 12. Fire me up if you want one.
Very informative, Nice post. Nice planes. Thank you!
Thanks for clearing that up. When you shove the throttles fwd, is the howl the same and can you tell any difference with slipstream over empennage w/ 2 or 3? Stupid questions, but it’s best to get the straight dope from someone who knows. Since Matt Younkin is too busy, I needed to ask. thanks so much
First of all, I would like to congratulate you on your great explanation of this beautiful Beechcraft 18 aircraft and also for its wonderful aircraft.
Good afternoon Captain... my name is Girão and I am pilot too,actually I have been flying B777 and I’d like to know something about NNP on beechcraft 18, procedures of engine failure in cruise flight level, first actions, and commons mistakes that can lead to accidents. What could you talk about a flight with 700Kgs of cargo, 04:00 hs of autonomy, the ability to fly a single engine while maintaining a FL050 for 45 minutes.... would be a reasonable flight? Thank you in advance for your explanation. Great hug.
Great videos Glenn! Question. What is that portable AC unit?
Thanks, and I hate seeing you leave TH-cam!
My dad flew C-45s on courier flights with the USAF in 1963 out of Hunter AFB, Georgia. He would certainly like this vid. He was 6 foot 4, how did he fit?
I recently looked at a beautiful beech 18 where the guy converted it to a single tail. What are the pluses and minus of each. Unfortunately when I went to put down a down-payment he backed out. Needless to say I was not happy after travelling half way across the country to look at it and take a test flight. Oh well I'll find something soon.
The Lockheed is a beautiful machine.
I must say you have two coolest planes ever I would take this over a king air or pc-12 any day
Thanks for the great video!
So was the Beech 18 actually sort of an ersatz, cheaper version of the Electra? And is the Electra the plane that you see Prime Minister Chamberlain seen with in newsreels?
The Beech 18 looks like a strong wrestler. The Lockheed looks like a dancer.
Interesting video. What product do you use to keep the Lockheed so shinny?
What a beautiful planes
I have friends that own both. The biggest advantage I see is you can buy a D-18 for ALOT LESS than a Lockheed 12. I've flown a Twin Beech it alot of fun. I've only sat inside the Lockheed. Both are great airplanes.
I was offered a lockheed 12 in Sydney Australia during 1976 for $30k Au, but it was the overhaul cost of the 2 radials that turned me off, now I made a bad mistake and bought a Bonanza instead
Thats the super charger is it not?on the Loc. Im just an aircraft admire. I remember the prat and whitney photos of dads old navy books. If im wrong I appologize.😅
@@ChrisEbbrsen Yes, they have superchargers. Did I say something different? I hope not. :-). Been a while since I did that so hopefully I didn’t say something wrong.
Very informative thanks
How do the AC compare with respect to performance and flight characteristics? Handling, control forces, roll rates, stall characteristics, etc. You mentioned a lack of elevator authority in the 18. Do the drooping ailerons on the 12 cause any abrupt breaks at the stall, does it drop a wing, etc. Which is your favorite in the air and why?
The outboard horizontal tail extensions on the Lockheed are similar to that on the P-38 and other Lockheed designs, and are not as efficient as the 18’s end plate rudders which act like early winglets if you will. The half moon horizontal tail extensions on the 12 add drag but very little down force since there is no elevator there. In fact, during landing, they may actually add up force. I’ve always thought it was odd that Kelly Johnson did this on many of his designs, one of the few things he did that were not the pinnacle of aerodynamic efficiency.
I am wondering the same.
Thanks great video
Obviously the cooler air outside the engine cowl gives better performance. Wasp Jr, mini 1340
Forgot to ask, how and why do some 18s have 3bladed props? The ones I have seen seem to have smaller chord than the 2blade.
Just an option like everything else. I like the 2 blades as they're a little faster but to each their own.