Rise and Fall of Immersive Sim (The Origin, Development And Death Of The Genre)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 มิ.ย. 2024
- Playing the game, everyone wants to be immersed in it as much as possible, and therefore immersive sim, they are also "immersive simulators", always came to the rescue. Nevertheless, it is still difficult to say what immersive sim really is. There are fierce disputes about which games can be attributed to them. Even the very fact of their existence is questioned. What are immersive simulators? Are immersive simulators being used now? This is the Press X channel, in our video today we will tell you how immersive simulation appeared and developed.
00:00 - Intro
01:01 - Immersive Sim Founders
10:10 - From the founders to the fathers of the genre
20:59 - Immersive Sim Renaissance
38:31 - Second wind or the beginning of the end?
51:47 - Indie market saves the genre
Immersive Sim, history of Immersive Sim, indie game, PressX
#ImmersiveSim #historyofImmersiveSim #PressX
Tags: Half-Life 2, Deus Ex, System Shock, Thief, What is immersive sim, immersive sim what is it, immersive sim, immersion simulator, arkane studios, Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, video games, video game history, gameplay, passing games, Looking Glass Studios, indie-games, ultima underworld, how games are made, game review - เกม
"death of the genre" how ridiculous... people been saying the genre is dead almost since it first came out... and there's plenty on the horizon that will reinvigorate
@@user-mx5pq1xo8j gloomwood, the follow up to cruelty squad, Peripeteia, VTmB2, Streets of Rogue 2, Monmouth, SCP: Fragmented minds, SCP 5k, etc
And since this video we got Bloodwest
@@user-mx5pq1xo8j Sorceress, ETOS, Core Decay, Judas, Streets of Rogue 2, Neverlooted Dungeon, Monomyth, Fortune's Run, Imprisoned Hyperion 2, RetroSpace, Psycho Patrol R. I'm sure there's more I forgot.
@@user-mx5pq1xo8j Dishonored 3 most likely, Bioshock 4 and Judas
@@user-mx5pq1xo8j gloomwood, amnesia the bunker, disonored death of the outsider, etc.
But if you looked at the industry in ratios, how many shooters and action games are released compated to immersive sims? Dishonoured is just barely an immersive sim due to it's largely linear design with minimal branching narrative and there is by far more actual RPGs released each year than there are immersive sims. So it's fair to say that immersive sims are at the very least on the near extinction list.
I'm not even going to watch this video. If immersive sims are interesting to watch, but not to play, there must be something wrong with you.
Yeah how the hell does that make sense? I was going to say the same thing. What a dumb thumbnail
Tbh it's a pretty ridiculous statement, bait or not.
I spent a couple k hours playing immsims since the late 90s, never really watched anyone playing them, besides some exceptions but even there- didn't seek it, mostly these vids just pop up on channels/websites I followed. Plus there's game/genre analysis format on YT< but that doesn't really count.
Fun, engaging and unique gameplay is the biggest reason why it's such a magnificent genre and why these games offer so much replayability.
@@jamesf4423 I understand his point when I think about it in a context where I could agree. Maybe you should try?
For example I don't enjoy playing Turn Based Tactical games like X-Com but enjoy watching someone else play them.
I'm sure you could find your own example if you just thought about it ✌✌
yea the thumbnail seriously rubbed me wrong. A game genre that is all about immersing the player into the world is not all about immersing a viewer, not the other way around wtf. A viewer will always have a sense of detachment due to not having any actual control over the events of the game. Watching a game like prey or dishonored would never be the same as playing it and i will die on that hill.
that thumbnail is such a great way to get people uninterested in the genre (which i’m sure wasnt your goal) and it’s also such a bizarre claim. you didn’t need the clickbaity titles and thumbnail, this is a great informational video and it could’ve garnered more outsiders if in the title and thumbnail you weren’t putting down the genre
One great immersive sim this year was Amnesia: The Bunker. In my opinion it's one of the scariest games in years, and the immersive sim elements greatly augment that.
The Bunker is not an immersive sim. Not even close. The genre has it's roots in the Rogue-likes of the early games industry and as such the underlying principle is for players to develop their own playstyle with the tools available. As strange as it may seem, Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild and it's sequel are another fine example of an immersive sim while The Bunker it just your typical survival horror. When you look at the mechanics across the industy and the genre labels applied you'll notice that immersive sims fit between the "build your character"' of true CRPGs and the freedom of achieving your own goals by your own methods in open ended sandbox games.
@@KryyssTV This is Very funny, The Bunker is very much an Immersive sim. The game is unplayable unless you make use of the game's environment. When they gave the game to theradBrad the game devs said "If you think something works, it probably does". Add the ability unlock system, and The Bunker is as Immersive sim as you can get.
@@wesleyharris5917 Busting down doors and pushing physics objects around does not define an immersive sim. The primary aspect of an immersive sim comes from it's CRPG roots where you have an open ended ruleset that leads to emergent mechanics. For example, if a game has traps then those have components that themselves are independant objects. Nethack handled this very well as traps could be disarmed, looted and even reused elsewhere or be transmuted into other items. Deus Ex did this with LAMs being traps you could disarm and repurpose or sell for income.
As I understand it, The Bunker doesn't even allow for such a basic feature. Immersive sims are one step away from being a sandbox if it wasn't for their linear scope.
@@KryyssTV You are wrong, you can lead the monster into places with traps and you can drag explosives into the monster's trail and shoot the barrel. on top of this, you can use objects to conceal yourself and slow down the monster, even block it entirely. not to mention all the ways to handle rats.
@@wesleyharris5917 All of which are incredibly mudane interactions that are rooted in manipukatng the AI and have no long term cnsequences or ways to completely change your playstyle. Everything you described has been done over and over in stealth games. This is why Thief is not an immersive sim but Deus Ex is.
I've been playing Cruelty Squad a lot recently. It's a really strange game, but it's one of the best immersive sims I've played in years.
It's the Gorbino's Quest of immersive sims.
I dont know how I got here, but I liked the ride. Thx for this great video! Cheers.
You explained why I liked so much of prey and didnt have a clue of wtf I was suposed to do... It is a hell bunch of interaction systems wraped on a thin layer of objective
The last immersive sim i played was PREY, which was incredible, but it does feel like they're few and far between nowadays.
If you haven't played the mooncrash dlc for prey get it.
It's even better than the base game
The issue with Prey was largely down to having too much bloat caused by the endless backtracking and having an imbalance between the resources available vs the unavoidable and unlimited enemies. While the SS series did have respawning enemies you often advanced far enough to allow for threats in earlier areas to be trivial encounters when you did need to backtrack. I often found myself making extensive use of turrets and creating paths with the gloogun to shortcut by areas that were notorious for respawns.
Of all the biggest problems however was the late game where you had extensive zero-g enviroments where stealth gameplay was largely impossible and you were forced to contend with damage sponge enemies that were ungodly accurate and deadly. In the end what took Prey from true immersive sim to RPG shooter was the level design that didn't offer opportunities for varying playstyles.
This is gonna be great. Your other videos are awesome and I love me some immersive sims!
Such great video! Hope you get more views and subscriptions! I try to play Cyberpunk as much as possible as an immersive sim. Nowadays, I think that is possible.
"Eye-dee studio" !? Brother it's id: one syllable, rhymes with kid.
kinda blows my mind that people still either don't know this or insist upon being wrong, even in a video like this
It's because this is crap written by AI.
took me about 20 seconds to realize.
complete crap and waste of time
no mention of Ctrl Alt Ego
-Side note, yet another example of how many people have no clue of what Im Sims are, just look at that view count, sad times
Huh? The video has more views than the channel has subs, use your brain man lol.
@@rusi6219 true but it didnt at the time
@@MICKEYrenraw oh okay, I apologize
I think these games were all WAY ahead of their time. Gamers just weren't ready for them. I honestly think they would've been more successful if they'd come out five or ten years later.
This is why they're seeing a renaissance now.
asking that question even rhetocally as clickbait in 2023 is kind of stupid
which question?
@@yedpodtrzitko title/thumbnail was different. something along the line of "are immersive sims dead?" or some bs like that
It’s TH-cam you have to get clicks don’t blame him blame TH-cam and sadly he is kinda right this type of game sadly is too risky because the average gamer doesn’t understand them so they don’t buy them I wish I was wrong I love this type of game so much
Immersive sims maybe would not find commercial success, but I feel blessed to experience and play it.
System Shock 2, Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, Dishonored games and Prey was absolute peak in all of gaming.
I think it’s not death of a genre so much as the aspects that make the genre unique are on a path to be implemented into many games and as such imsim goes from a genre to a trend of games becoming more feature rich and immersive as a whole
Blood West is the game of the year 2023 IMO.
It’s a shame this amazing style of game just does not make enough money to be safe to develop I don’t get how so many people don’t like these kinda games
Immersive Sims aren't dead, but let's be clear about this. They don't sell. They just don't. The most successful immersive sim franchise of all time is Deus Ex and those games were modest hits. Modest. These are not the kind of games that the gaming community is interested in, generally speaking. It's like a band who has 100,000 die hard fans, so they sell 100,000 copies of an album, but not a single copy sold over that number because everyone outside that group does not care enough to even try listening.
On a side note, I don't consider "immersive sim" to be a genre. It's a design philosophy. It's like, Dishonored is a stealth action game that employs the immersive sim design philosophy. Deus Ex is an RPG that employs the immersive sim design philosophy. So on and so forth. But I guess that's ultimately semantics. It's just easier to call them immersive sims over their actual genre to let those who actually care about this stuff know what design philosophy it employs.
Also, contrary to your implication, Bioshock is not an immersive sim and shouldn't even be featured in this video as one.
If you dont enjoy immersive sims, then you've played too much cookie cutter filler slop like CoD or Double Ass creed.
or you just don't like immersive sims
@@PlebolaPandemicThats fine, nothing wrong with that, but thats not the game's fault and it shouldnt be blamed for that.
A person not being into them doesnt mean they are bad
@@nemtudom5074cool - now apply your reasoning to what you've previously called "cookie cutter filler slop" in order to be consistent.
@@rusi6219I did.
CoD and Addassins creed are cookie cutter filler *slop*
If you're going to criticize me atleast make sure you do it right and dont f it up
Deus ex mankind divided was my first immersive sim game. I got hooked after the first hour of the game when I saw you could deal with a problem in multiple ways.
To answer your question, people play games to learn or practice what they've learned. It's just that simple. That is why people say that some games have "depth"' because the learning opportunities are nuanced. Why are open world games popular? Because exploration is a learning experience. Immersive sims are CRPG-Lite. More accessible than your NetHacks or Rogues but with enough little interlocking systems to learn that it offered room for experimentation.
fucking incredible SERIOUSLY deep dive into this. i really cant appreciate this video enough for how deep it goes. seriously thank you! this is incredible for inspiring and informing future games.
I now look forward to SS3 than HL3. I hope it's not vaporware.
"in a word..."
1-4 sentences later.
Linear cinematic games are the ones that are interesting to watch but not to play
It boggles my mind how people could find ImSims uninteresting to play.
You’d think FPS metroidvanias with RPG elements, physics based systemic gameplay and choice in how to approach a problem, would be a massive genre. For some weird reason it isn’t.
And I don’t think there’s a real explanation as to why. Maybe they don’t look “action based” enough for FPS fans of CoD or Halo but at the same time look too action heavy (and FPS) for RPG fans. So the result is a game for a very specific group of people that liked both FPS and RPGs?
Tencent doesnt own the franchise, they only have the publishing rights to the Third game; Nightdive owns the System Shock Intellectual Property
They also got the unfinished SS3 project files when Warren decided that he didn't want to do an immersive sim within the restrictions of the System Shock franchise so hopefully Nightdive is putting that previously done work to good use. Meanwhile Riders On The Storm is looking like a cross between Bioshock and Ultima.
@@KryyssTVthey said they are doing system shock 2 remake next but after they might try again at 3
Death of the genre?
did chatgpt write this video
Interesting to watch but not fun to play? I couldn't disagree more. I absolutely yearn for more ImSims but they're in short supply. Indie is nice, like Gloomwood and Blood West but I want the production value too.
I don't think the genre will die, I just think it will forever remain niche because most people don't seem to want to think much and be super immersed when gaming. They think they do but they really just wanna shoot things and laugh with friends.
the death of the genre lmao its literally been resurected my dude
By what exactly that makes this genre so groundbreaking? Tarkov?🤣😭🤣😭🤣
All these comments crying about a mediocre niche genre the nobody gaf about. Smh.
I guess I dont really understand what classifies as this genre. Towards the end of the video its mentioned that certain games have immersive sim mechanics but arent part of the genre for some reason. Specifically Starfield, Hitman, Fallout, and Oblivion were mentioned that I would think apply. I guess some of those are more "RPG"? Maybe it needs a specific story and protagonist? Like what makes Corvo a Immersive Sim protagonist but the starfield protagonist not?If Halo had stealth, optional ways to beat the level, more dynamic ai, and alternate endings would that be immersive? Why wouldnt something like Zelda or Red Dead not be considered immersive sim? Are they not allowed to be open world? Must be First Person? What about something like Subnautica?
I'm not sure what makes a game immersive vs RPG, but i do know that between say.. starfield and prey. prey is easily more immersive. in prey, there are numerous ways to solve an issue, usually. in starfield, usually just 1-2 ways, and you must conform to the path of the mission, there is no straying, you must . In prey, you can immediately kill any important character, and still play the game, however the game will lock you out of some elements because that player is dead. In starfield, you cannot kill any important character as it would break the game and you would not be able to continue, you can shoot them and they don't die, just people around might get scared or react. for example, if you immediately killed everyone in the lodge, for starfield there would be no game, since so much of the main storyline is there. but in many immersive sims, you can kill any important character and just be locked out of that specific quest or even better, the game would end because you made that decision.
one example is that in prey, you can...spoiler, use your gloo cannon to get up to the shuttle and just fly away, ending the game immediately early on
also i think being able to customize a characters looks is not immersive, open world is not immersive, especially if everything is procedurally generated. first person is more immersive because you are the character, vs looking at the character
i think you might have actually said the answer (in a somewhat simple way) in your post: "optional ways to beat the level" and "alternate endings" based on your choice .. that's really what harvey spector was about when he created the genre, and same thought process for Raphael Colantonio when creating prey
@@jw6451 I appreciate your reply. I actually researched this more after watching this video and found out this is a very particular type of game that people are pretty passionate about. I have only played Dishonored (1 and 2) and Bioshock (1 and infinite).
I still think its ill defined mostly because the definition of immersion can apply to a lot of things. Like I really immerse myself in Red Dead but thats not an immersive sim.
From what I understand they are semi open story focused games with a highly interactable world and a distinct first person character to play as. The idea is you immerse yourself as the character in a believable world. The game element is that you get to define what direction the story takes using the mechanics the game gives you. The mechanics are really where they differ.
Each level/area should act like a sandbox where the player gets to complete the objectives in any order/strategy they want. The more attention to detail the better. Like you said, most of them allow you to kill key characters that lock you out of certain progressions.
Whats interesting to me is that a lot of games really do take elements of this and the open world genre has a lot of roots from the immersive sim but somehow the immersive sim kept a specific identity that fans are looking for.
Immersive sim is a mixed genre itself, but i would define it as follows:
- FPS
- Back-Tracking
- Different fight approches
- Lore-related optional tasks
- Conspiracys
It's about games that are systems rather than script driven, which "emergent gameplay" can arise from as a product of this. In the first Deus ex, for example, it is sometimes possible to bypass the need for key codes, lockpicks etc by using sticky grenades to scale the side of a building and access it from the roof. Whilst this isn't something the devs intended, the design philosophy facilitates this. The side of the building, including the normally inaccessible roof and high sides all have proper collisions, react to player interaction in expected ways, and no invisible walls are placed to railroad the player into using the aforementioned solutions. If you look at a game like say, fallout New Vegas in comparison, a similar scenario might give the player an option to hack, lockpick, talk to someone, do a quest etc, but the point is that it these are all scripted, developer anticipated solutions to a problem the player faces. Imsims allow this to be circumvented through their very design, because they are "simulating" a world.
Gay