Very nicely done. Very informative. I love Camco drums. In fact, I own a 1962 blue satin flame kit. I bought it new in 1973 from Doc's Drums in Detroit, where I was taking lessons. I saw the kit come into the shop in '62 (as a 10 year old) and thought it was the coolest kit I had ever seen. I told Doc that someday it would be mine. Fortunately for me, it sat in Doc's shop for 10 years (thanks to Ringo). When I finally purchased the kit, I asked Doc the price. He pulled out the original invoice, which was $250, and that's what he sold it to me. Sizes were 13", 16", 20", and a 5x14" parallel snare drum. I later added a 10x14" tom and a 16x18" floor tom. I still have it to this day.
Wow, thanks so much for this. I'm now 70 and retired and I still have the Camco kit my parents bought me in 1970. It's a blue moire and consists of 13 and 16 inch toms and a 20 inch bass drum (I originally had a Ludwig snare with that kit). It's been on two European tours and I played it on hundreds of gigs before I retired it in the mid 80s. The 13 inch drum's top reinforcement ring began to come unglued and I had gotten frustrated with the construction of the tom hoops that were welded in such a way as to be almost impossible to get a tuning key over the rod. Not sure if this was ever talked about, but it was the only thing I hated about these drums, and the fact that the moire wrap was too easily scratched. Because of the abuse these drums took, they look like total hell. At some point, I hope to get them somewhat restored but it may cost more than it's worth. These drums always sounded fantastic and there have been pros like Ed Soph and Jeff Hamilton who played them when I was in college, who had nothing but high praise for the sound and feel.
Thank you for your personal account Gary. I never heard anything about the moire wraps being delicate but I the only person I know that had one was Bruce who I’ve highlighted at the end of my video. If you ever post a video of your drums please let me know. I’d love to see and hear it.
Absolutely EXCELLENT!!!. I cry everytime I recall that I sold my SF Camco 6 piece natural maple kit. Everyone that heard them, bass players, guitarists, keys, vocalists, crew, engineers and even learned girlfriends, said it was the best sounding drums they had heard. Selling them was an absolute "shit for brains" decision.
This a very valuable piece of American drum history. I'm almost 70 and I still get the same thrill as I did when I was 12 and going to music stores, looking at drums. Keep up the great insight on the drums of my youth! It all started with Ringo (Ludwig) and Dave Clark (Rogers). Also Buddy Rich, first with Rogers, then Slingerland (60s and 70s).
EXCELLENT Job !!! this was Fantastic, so comprehensive ,truly the entire History, I was 12 in 1972 and obsessed with Camco and had their 6 Page Catalog until it disintegrated, We were so poor I couldn't get a used Kent Snare, but I knew when I was an adult I would own Camco's but in 1976 they were really out of Business year they really , Ronn Dunnett made me a George Way Tuxedo line Custon set-up 24' Bass Areo Aluminum Snare 12," 13" 16" Toms and met me at a Drum Shop to deliver it!!! He is quite a Man,
Thank you so much James! I really appreciate you letting me know that you liked the video. Ronn is a super cool dude for sure. It doesn’t surprise me at all that he met you to personally deliver that kit. If you ever shoot a videos of it, regardless of quality, I’d love to see it. FYI. I met w Ronn recently and we sat down to discuss his Geo Way drums. Stay tuned, as there is more to come here from that meeting. ✌️✌️
Awesome video the best I’ve seen really. I own a couple new George way kits made in Vancouver by Ronn Dunnett! They have the oak lawn bearing edges and are made from acacia and maple/poplar. 🙌🙌 I love them a little too much!
Thanks Simon. The George Way story will easily be its own video. He really got the short end of the stick in the Camco story. Ron Dunnett is the perfect guy to have picked up the George Way brand and im sure those drums are incredible. It would be an interesting video to compare the Camco Oaklawn to the new Geo Way drums. Hmmmm. You gave me an idea! 😁✌️
When I was taking drum lessons in the late 60's, my drum teacher was a Camco endorser. His name was Joey Cass and his claim to fame was a five year stint as drummer with Frankie Valli and The Four Seasons. Joey was a Jersey boy whose real last name was Cassieri. He also happened to be very good friends with Nick Ceroli. I believe it was Nick who helped Joey get his endorsement deal.
Hi Tony, Joey Cass is in fact listed in the Camco catalogs as the drummer for the Four Seasons. It's fascinating to hear stories from people who had first hand experiences with these folks. Thanks for sharing your personal account.
@@eddieavakian Joey was always getting calls to go out on the road, but by 1973, he opened a music store in Hasbrouck Heights, NJ. He got me my first full time gig with a band that was playing 6 nights per week in 1975. I owe him a lot, he was a tremendous help to me and a great friend. RIP Joey!
I competed in a drum competition in '74. That year, I selected "Spontanious Percussion" by Nick Ceroli. For solo snare drum. Quite a bitch. Check it out! My instructor has a walnut Camco set.
Haha. Yeah the Camco inventory is small these days. The natural finish LA Camco is not far from where I live. The only reason I haven’t gone there is because I know that I buy it! 😅. I have no more room!! Thanks for checking out the video. Glad you liked it. I spent a lot of time on it to try and do the brand justice so your comment really means a lot. Thank you
I bet you didn’t know that the “round turret” tension casing / lug Originally started life as a bracket for the bass drum shell mounted cymbal holder. It bolted to the top of the bass drum. it had one channel running through it, and the “L arm” that held a cymbal was attached to the turret, by means of a s”T”screw. Designed by GEORGE Way it is featured in the back of the 1952 or maybe it’s 1951 lead catalog the one with the orange color. It was a simple holder mounting bracket in its first incarnation that you didn’t know that.
Great stuff here. I'm old enough to remember seeing Nick Ceroli and his walnut finish Camcos with Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass. I was (and still am) a die hard Rogers guy. But when I saw those round turret lugs, man...I thought they looked so cool. So different than Rogers, Ludwig, Slingerland and Gretsch. Fast forward tow: I purchased a mint condition maple DW kit from Fork's Drum Closet about 18 yr ago (20/14/12, dated 1999, stamped on the inside of the shells, which are the the thin 3-ply, with the sharp bearing edges. Amazing tone.All maple, maple "satin" finish. Only my two mid 60s Rogers kits (Red Onyx & Blue Onyx wrap) sound as good as the DW drums. I am so blessed & lucky to own these great American drums.. Still hoping to some day to own a vintage Camco kit. The tone is worth the sky high prices these drums fetch nowadays. Camcos are special; rare collectible and playable works of art (IMHO).
@@roadrocket7I’m actually a Rogers guy myself but I love Camco drums and they have an interesting history. Thanks for your input! FYI my favorite kit is my early 60s blue sparkle holiday kit. 2nd fav is my late 60s champagne sparkle kit. I did a video on both of these kits.
I collect Hoshino Camco drums and the original version from 1978 came with rering. It was the exact shell used by LA Camco. In 79 they switched to a non rering shell that keller developed ,6ply maple and very similar to a Rogers XP-8 shell. Elger/ Hoshino made approximately 600 kits total as production was stopped in late 1980. Left over 14" shells were made into 1981 Tama Superstar MEGA 8 snare drums ,which were 8 inch deep and available in single lug or double lug configuration. These snares had MIJ on the Superstar badge but were made in Bensalem PA for the North American market.
Great info John! It sounds like they initially bought the same shell from Keller for their first Camcos or they did actually get some shell inventory in the deal. Very interesting info. Congrats on your collection. You hardly ever see the USA made Hoshino Camcos out there.
@eddieavakian they aren't easy to find. The Renaissance series is even harder. I'm in the process of buying the first production kit, which was number 3 made. 2) 26" ,12,13,14,15,16,18 plus a 22" ! It's a rering kit that was given to a local Philly player to get feed back on the kits. Number 1 and 2 kits were given to the factory manager ( he still has it) and another employee. There were only two ppl building these drums. I've been a Tama collector since 1985 but once I got my first Hoshino Camco, I've been hooked!! I like your channel. Keep it up and keep it interesting. 💯
I own a double bass set of Oaklawn Aristocrats in Black Diamond Pearl. I purchased them from Richard Meisler who was my drum teacher and a Camco dealer on Long Island. I purchased these throughout the year between summer of 1967 to 1968 one piece at a time. I was 14 years old and had a lawn mowing service to save money for the drums. In the winter I knocked on doors and shoveled snow to earn money for my Camco’s. A January snow storm was a bonanza for me, it meant a floor Tom and a bass drum. I must have shoveled 40-50 walkways and driveways to earn enough. At each savings milestone I would order one more drum piece to eventually complete a six piece kit. I also ordered the black soft Naugahyde carry bags new at the time with each piece. I poured over Camco drum catalogs and had every page and part number memorized. Those Camco’s were and still are one of the most prized possessions I own. My hands are getting arthritis as I age but I still unpack them every so often and set them up like an old set of trains. I polish the chrome and wax them carefully as gleeful as I did at 14 years old, and every year since, each time a new box was waiting for me at Mr. Meislers studio. My Dad’s old lawn mower and snow shovel made my dream come true, one drum at a time. I owned many other different brands over years but my old Camco’s are still the best drums. Beautiful warm punchy sound almost 60 years later. Thanks for the memories.
Oh man this made me smile. What a great history you have with these drums. Thanks for sharing your story. I'm happy for you that still have those drums. I've spoken to a few people that regret selling theirs. Thanks for watching the video.
I only knew the Camco foot pedals and have still been playing with them since 1982. I have a single pedal and a double pedal. The later is from TAMA, although it still says Camco on the pedal.
I use the DW 5000 which is essentially a modern camco. Never played the Tama but it looks identical to the camco. I used to have the Tama iron cobra and that was a great pedal as well.
Great to find your portal. l'm a proud owner of a CAMCO C-650 ( custom ordered by Frank lppolito at PPC NY ) In Dec.1975 in Stradivarius finish 14 × 26 bass, 10×14 & 12×15 toms, 16×16 & 16×18 floors and a 453 6 1/2 × 14 wooden snare . Under Elvin Jones recommendation somebody at PPC instaled a Slingerland double tom holder. The sound of these drums is awesome. I still have this kit in mint condition.
The Jim Gorden bit was great!!!! Love your videos!! Everytime I watch one I get pumped and go practice, lately on some Gretsch Brooklyns that ring sooo beautifully. I WANT a Camco set!!!!
Thank you for the positive vibes Charles. I think Jim Gordon needs his own video. I was looking to buy a camco while I was making this video but the few I saw were so expensive!! One day I’ll get one tho
Camco drums was the drums that Doug "Como's" Clifford used in Creedence Clearwater Revival 13/16/22 from Green River to Madri. Before that Como's used Ludwig kit for CCR self-Title and Bayou Country. Along with Paiste 602
Great show Eddie! Wow, great production and research my friend! I thought one other great Camco drummer, session drummer Mike Botts (Bread, Linda Ronstadt). Awesome Eddie!
Thanks Earl. Fyi in my research I found your video on the drum pedal. That was great info! Thanks for the tip on Botts! Camco could have done a better job at using endorsements. I love love their drums tho.
Alice De Buhr of Fanny was another Camco user ... I saw a TH-cam video recently where she said she still has her Camco kit .... aaaand she knows just how collectable they are . I left a comment on the video about them and she replied .
@@eddieavakian yes indeed Eddie, very expensive too. At the moment I'm enjoying my 2020 Rogers Covington, I recently gave it an airing at the Brecon Jazz festival here in Wales. Much ❤️ from here and thank you for your amazing work
@@terrydonegan1622 Love the new Roger’s drums. I have two 60s Roger’s kits but those don’t leave the studio. They sound better than kits I’ve ever owned.
Fantastic production of this very informative video. I am surprised that in all of the details about foot pedals, there was no mention of the Ludwig Speed King which had no strap of any kind and never broke.
Thank you for checking it out!. Yes the Speed King and the Camco pedal often come up together. It’s always a struggle to know what to include and what to cut in these videos. I actually have an original Speed King that I only use when I travel because it’s so small and easy to carry.
I met George Way in 1959 when he sold me my first drum set directly from the Elkhart factory…green pearl in 22/13/14/14 snare drum…wish I had that kit today! George Way endorser Eddie Knight was my teacher for four years.
Amazing Scott!! I’m blown away by your personal experience. What I find so interesting about history is that you can’t appreciate it at the time it’s happening. I’ve looked and it’s not easy to find an original George way kit today. In fact I’ve never found one. Do you have any pictures of it? I’d love to see those! I should have mentioned Eddie Knight in my video. I knew that I’d regret cutting that part out.
@@eddieavakian My dad asked me to “take a ride” with him…which meant riding around picking up insurance premiums (he sold insurance) and when he said “we are taking a short ride to Elkhart” (11 miles from South Bend)…my heart sank as Elkhart at the time was an industry town (musical instruments) and yes, we pulled up to a non-descript brick factory building😡. He said “I’ll be back” which meant I was going to sit in the car until he was done visiting with clients! About 5 minutes later, he comes back and said “I want you to meet somebody”…more groans from me as I dutifully followed him into the building…two doors….and a large room stacked with drum sets up to the ceiling appeared. A rather portly gentleman walks up to me..”Hi Scott, my name is George Way and your dad just bought you a drum set…you can pick out whatever you want…”. OMG…I knew I did not want a lacquer kit…the wall had an assortment of gold, blue, red, silver sparkle finishes (champagne had not appeared yet)…and there was a green sparkle….22” bass, 9 x 13 Tom, 14 x 14 floor Tom and 5 1/2” snare (all aristocrat)… Eddie Knight was my teacher at the time and I am sure Eddie set up the visit with Geo Way…four years later I traded the set for a slingerland blue satin flame finish 18” bass, 2 8x12 toms, 14 x 14 floor Tom and a metal radio king snare…by that time G Way drums became Camco…and Camco became DW and no one remembers G Way drums 🫢. Enjoyed your article a great deal…👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻. BTW…have kicked myself many times for selling that kit for a slingerland…except the chicks loved the blue satin flame finish 😂😂😂
Thanks for doing the digging. Hope you keep telling these stories. I dunno if you did Leedy and Ludwig and Ludwig or paiste but I def remember you did zildjian. Great work man.
Thanks man! I appreciate it. I have not done a Leedy or Paiste one yet.I did get into some Ludwig and Ludwig stuff in my Ludwig-Sonor connection video. Some interesting history there between Sonor and Ludwig in that one. I appreciate you reaching out!
@@eddieavakian I love your deep dives. Paiste is an interesting one from Estonia to Switzerland. I love this stuff as much as you. Even the mentioned of swivomatic and how guys like banjo would use that on Ludwig’s. I hope more comments get you more views. Thanks man.
@@kkupsky6321 Paiste sounds like an interesting one! pretty sure comments and conversation activity helps the algorithm but not really sure how it works.
don't forget mike botts of bread, linda ronstadt, michael martin murphey, dan fogelberg,andrew gold, karla bonoff, etc,etc too many more to mention...this guy was all over the place for southern california soft rock. he played a camco seven piece kit with 24" bass, 18" and 16" floor toms 14", 13" and 12" mounted toms and 6.5"x14" snare. listen to andrew gold's "lonely boy" playing that offbeat groove while playing a jingle bell stick-incredible.thank-you eddie for this often overlooked brand. these drums sound fantastic, especially jim gordon's drums on souther , hillman ,furay l.p.and traffic's "low spark of highheeled boy's" l.p. and b.w. stevensons "my maria" l.p. or johnny rivers l.p's. this list would be too numerous to mention. thank you again, your drum brother.
Nice Donald! Thank you for added all of this information here in comments for everyone to see. I just listened to Lonely Boy (I haven’t heard it in forever) and that beat is tricky especially for a pop song. I’ll have check out Botts other work. Both you and Earl mentioned him and I don’t know anything about him. Camco drums made it on more records than most people realize. Great drums for sure.
@@RalphOnofrio wow! That’s very cool. Do you have any pics from back then? I was actually looking for some when I made this video but didn’t find anything.
There's a George Way aristocrat bop kit in natural maple gloss finish at my local drum shop, and I was blown away and shocked at how punchy, fat, and huge the kick sounded with a Remo P3 Fiberskyn reso head, and a P3 Renaissance. It easily sounded like a 20x14. Beautiful drums..
The Geo Way kits are amazing drums. And they’re reasonably priced. I just posted an interview with Ronn Dunnett where he goes over how he came to make those drums. I think you’d like that video
Thanks for the informative video ! I do own a 10-lug 14x6,5 Los Angeles Camco wooden shell snare drum in the Walnut finish + another L.A. 14x6,5 COB 8-lug model. Both are absolutely phenomenal in terms of sound quality. I will hopefully find a complete L.A. Camco set in the near future but this is going to be a very difficult undertaking as I live in Germany and the drums are even rarer here than in the states.
Thank you Daniel. I know of an LA Camco for sale where I live in Los Angeles. It’s on Reverb and it’s a natural maple finish. The price is pretty high tho, but that’s no surprise. Good luck on your search and if you ever post a video of those magnificent drums, please hit me up. I’d love to hear them.
@@danielschwarz5335 the listing is for a complete LA kit, minus the snare drum. It’s listed for $4900 US. Natural maple finish. It’s been listed for a while and the price has come down from the original asking price.
Great and informative video. I have Rob Cook's book, so I already knew about the history. However, the big mystery that remains is: what kind of wood was used in the layup for the 6-ply shells? Nobody knows for sure. Some of the Camco owners seem to think the shells were 100% maple. I think they were mixed plies. The world may never know...
Thank you! I did a video on Jasper and they used mostly hard maple and sweet gum wood. In that video I had a friend of mine do a short segment on Roger’s shells from Jasper and they were 100% maple per a wood DNA test. Back then the wood type wasn’t a major focus like it is today. I’d guess the pre LA Camco’s were either all maple or maple / gum (Jasper made this combo for Gretsch) The one guy who might know for sure is Ronn Dunnett but even he might not know for certain.
@@eddieavakian I'm with you on this; I think Camco's much-desired Oaklawn-era shell could indeed be the same maple/gum layup as used by Gretsch. They could also be all maple. They 2 biggest key factors in the sound of those drums were the bearing edges, which had a unique radius and back-cut, and the fact that they were significantly undersized, regardless of the drum size. My best guess is that those shells were maple/gum.
FRED GRUBER, Don Lombardi‘s drum teacher was grooming Don to teach his method to teach Freddys method. Freddy was one of the first and main shareholders in Drum Work Shop. Just ask Don!
The best bass drum pedal i ever ad as a kid was a tama made camco pedal,better than a ghost (my first) pedal,or a slingerland yellowjacket pedal.later DW and then tama slapped on a metal plate under the footboard around the same period in the 1980's.Lars Ulrich forst drumset playing with Metallica had a Camco Renassanse 7pc set with inlays that he spraypainted matte black!!!! (watch video about Lars gear on youtube) which,was stolen along with guitars and marshalls-yikes.A camco tuxedo snare was p for sale in portland recently for 850, and it sat there for a while.Then a 4pc kkt was selling onlne for 3000,now allegra drums are the hot defunct drums around here.good video!
My first pedal was a Ghost pedal. I never really figured out how to adjust that thing. 😂. Since going to the DW5000 pedal, I never think about pedals anymore. I did not know about Lars playing that Camco kit but painting it black? Ouch! I’ll have to find the video.
Hello from Australia! Thanks for this great video. I play Los Angeles Camco set. The snare has always been of concern to me as the bottom or snare snap side bearing edge has a unique factory design which creates a "warp" in the head to allow the snares to sit flatter on the head.....BUT, I have never seen another drum Camco or others, with this feature...perhaps you know of this?
Hello! Aside from the snare concern, how do you like the Camco kit? For your question I’d email Bruce at budsmusic@hotmail.com. He’s the guy at the end of my video that does restorations and has a large Camco snare collection. Most are Oaklawn but I’m sure he knows the LA snare drums as well. Good luck and let me know how it turns out.
Yes, he has a LA Camco snare similar to mine. Everybody who hears my drums are amazed at the volume and sustain generated by such small drums (12"dia. x 7" tom, 14"dia. x 9" tom 14"dia. x 5" snare, 20"dia. x14" bass) They sort of snigger at 'em beacuse my name is Cam also and the drum set is so small!!!! They soon stop laughing when they hear that Camco sound; especially the bass.@@eddieavakian
Interesting about the bearing edges on the snare side . I had a ' Stradivarius ' snare drum , which turned out to be made by Drouyn in the late 50s ( it still had a vellum head when I got it ) an Australian drum company based in Brisbane . It had flats cut into the bearing edge in just this manner .
Personally I do like them, not my favs tho, but I think that they were so different at the time that it made the drums recognizable. I prefer the look of the old Rogers bead and butter and slingerland radio king beavertail lugs
@@eddieavakian I love the older vintage lugs especially Ludwig’s. The New British Drum Co lugs are gorgeous though and take some of their design from Ludwig.
I get it. The story is heartbreaking. It’s hard to feel good about it when you know how it all went down. But thanks to George they were incredible drums.
I bet you didn’t know that the “round turret” tension casing Originally started life as a bracket for the bass drum shell mounted cymbal holder. It bolted to the top of the bass drum. it had one channel running through it, and the “L arm” that held a cymbal was attached to the turret, by means of a s”T”screw. Designed by GEORGE Way it is featured in the back of the 1952 or maybe it’s 1951 lead catalog the one with the orange color. It was a simple holder mounting bracket in its first incarnation that you didn’t know that.
I did not know this. Are you sure? I did an interview with Ronn Dunnett (it’s my latest video) and he discussed the history of the lugs as well as other George Way inventions. Fascinating interview
@@eddieavakian : check out the “orange covered LEEDY catalog” from 1951 or 1952 I think and you’ll see the turret bracket shell mount cymbal holder. It’s a tiny little picture you’re blinking you won’t see it but it’s in there. I guess it was designed by GEORGE Way as a cymbal holder to be mounted on the bass drum shell! I collect catalogs and I happen to spell bistro, when they’re showing the original lugs and their evolution. I think there’s a quick picture of the L arm bass drum shell mounted turret bracket.
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Very nicely done. Very informative. I love Camco drums. In fact, I own a 1962 blue satin flame kit. I bought it new in 1973 from Doc's Drums in Detroit, where I was taking lessons. I saw the kit come into the shop in '62 (as a 10 year old) and thought it was the coolest kit I had ever seen. I told Doc that someday it would be mine. Fortunately for me, it sat in Doc's shop for 10 years (thanks to Ringo). When I finally purchased the kit, I asked Doc the price. He pulled out the original invoice, which was $250, and that's what he sold it to me. Sizes were 13", 16", 20", and a 5x14" parallel snare drum. I later added a 10x14" tom and a 16x18" floor tom. I still have it to this day.
That is a very cool story! I can’t believe that kit sat unsold for 10 years!! Wow! I’m sure it’s looks and sounds incredible.
Kept my Camco Hi-hat stand for years....Great drums.
Wow, thanks so much for this. I'm now 70 and retired and I still have the Camco kit my parents bought me in 1970. It's a blue moire and consists of 13 and 16 inch toms and a 20 inch bass drum (I originally had a Ludwig snare with that kit). It's been on two European tours and I played it on hundreds of gigs before I retired it in the mid 80s. The 13 inch drum's top reinforcement ring began to come unglued and I had gotten frustrated with the construction of the tom hoops that were welded in such a way as to be almost impossible to get a tuning key over the rod. Not sure if this was ever talked about, but it was the only thing I hated about these drums, and the fact that the moire wrap was too easily scratched. Because of the abuse these drums took, they look like total hell. At some point, I hope to get them somewhat restored but it may cost more than it's worth. These drums always sounded fantastic and there have been pros like Ed Soph and Jeff Hamilton who played them when I was in college, who had nothing but high praise for the sound and feel.
Thank you for your personal account Gary. I never heard anything about the moire wraps being delicate but I the only person I know that had one was Bruce who I’ve highlighted at the end of my video. If you ever post a video of your drums please let me know. I’d love to see and hear it.
Absolutely EXCELLENT!!!. I cry everytime I recall that I sold my SF Camco 6 piece natural maple kit. Everyone that heard them, bass players, guitarists, keys, vocalists, crew, engineers and even learned girlfriends, said it was the best sounding drums they had heard. Selling them was an absolute "shit for brains" decision.
Oh man. Sorry to hear that. Honestly I’ve regretted selling every drum I’ve ever sold but yours is a gut punch for sure.
This a very valuable piece of American drum history. I'm almost 70 and I still get the same thrill as I did when I was 12 and going to music stores, looking at drums. Keep up the great insight on the drums of my youth! It all started with Ringo (Ludwig) and Dave Clark (Rogers). Also Buddy Rich, first with Rogers, then Slingerland (60s and 70s).
Great video!!! ❤ Camco!!!
Thank you Fred!
EXCELLENT Job !!! this was Fantastic, so comprehensive ,truly the entire History, I was 12 in 1972 and obsessed with Camco and had their 6 Page Catalog until it disintegrated, We were so poor I couldn't get a used Kent Snare, but I knew when I was an adult I would own Camco's but in 1976 they were really out of Business year they really , Ronn Dunnett made me a George Way Tuxedo line Custon set-up 24' Bass Areo Aluminum Snare 12," 13" 16" Toms and met me at a Drum Shop to deliver it!!! He is quite a Man,
Thank you so much James! I really appreciate you letting me know that you liked the video. Ronn is a super cool dude for sure. It doesn’t surprise me at all that he met you to personally deliver that kit. If you ever shoot a videos of it, regardless of quality, I’d love to see it. FYI. I met w Ronn recently and we sat down to discuss his Geo Way drums. Stay tuned, as there is more to come here from that meeting. ✌️✌️
Great job Eddy, as always !
Thank you Sal! I appreciate it.
Rob's books are so informative. Good stuff. Thanks for this great video, Eddie!
That book was excellent. The amount of Reseach he did was off the charts.
Awesome video the best I’ve seen really. I own a couple new George way kits made in Vancouver by Ronn Dunnett! They have the oak lawn bearing edges and are made from acacia and maple/poplar. 🙌🙌 I love them a little too much!
Thanks Simon. The George Way story will easily be its own video. He really got the short end of the stick in the Camco story. Ron Dunnett is the perfect guy to have picked up the George Way brand and im sure those drums are incredible. It would be an interesting video to compare the Camco Oaklawn to the new Geo Way drums. Hmmmm. You gave me an idea! 😁✌️
When I was taking drum lessons in the late 60's, my drum teacher was a Camco endorser. His name was Joey Cass and his claim to fame was a five year stint as drummer with Frankie Valli and The Four Seasons. Joey was a Jersey boy whose real last name was Cassieri. He also happened to be very good friends with Nick Ceroli. I believe it was Nick who helped Joey get his endorsement deal.
Hi Tony, Joey Cass is in fact listed in the Camco catalogs as the drummer for the Four Seasons. It's fascinating to hear stories from people who had first hand experiences with these folks. Thanks for sharing your personal account.
@@eddieavakian Joey was always getting calls to go out on the road, but by 1973, he opened a music store in Hasbrouck Heights, NJ. He got me my first full time gig with a band that was playing 6 nights per week in 1975. I owe him a lot, he was a tremendous help to me and a great friend. RIP Joey!
I competed in a drum competition in '74. That year, I selected "Spontanious Percussion" by Nick Ceroli. For solo snare drum. Quite a bitch. Check it out! My instructor has a walnut Camco set.
Recognized several kits I've been watching on Reverb. Fingers crossed for a a great deal. Excellent video.
Haha. Yeah the Camco inventory is small these days. The natural finish LA Camco is not far from where I live. The only reason I haven’t gone there is because I know that I buy it! 😅. I have no more room!! Thanks for checking out the video. Glad you liked it. I spent a lot of time on it to try and do the brand justice so your comment really means a lot. Thank you
I bet you didn’t know that the “round turret” tension casing / lug
Originally started life as a bracket for the bass drum shell mounted cymbal holder. It bolted to the top of the bass drum. it had one channel running through it, and the “L arm” that held a cymbal was attached to the turret, by means of a s”T”screw.
Designed by GEORGE Way it is featured in the back of the 1952 or maybe it’s 1951 lead catalog the one with the orange color. It was a simple holder mounting bracket in its first incarnation that you didn’t know that.
Absolutely love your videos, Eddie! Keep up the great work!
Thank you so much! I appreciate it. I see that you have some videos as well. I’ll sub and check them out!
Eddie, once again you've produced another fine and informative video. Great work brother
Thanks Paul! I was really inspired when o made this one. I appreciate you for taking the time to let me know that you enjoyed it. 🙏
Another informative and interesting video Eddie! Thanks for the shout out bro. Cheer, Bruce
Thanks brother Bruce! Your Camco video was epic.
Great stuff here. I'm old enough to remember seeing Nick Ceroli and his walnut finish Camcos with Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass. I was (and still am) a die hard Rogers guy. But when I saw those round turret lugs, man...I thought they looked so cool. So different than Rogers, Ludwig, Slingerland and Gretsch. Fast forward tow: I purchased a mint condition maple DW kit from Fork's Drum Closet about 18 yr ago (20/14/12, dated 1999, stamped on the inside of the shells, which are the the thin 3-ply, with the sharp bearing edges. Amazing tone.All maple, maple "satin" finish. Only my two mid 60s Rogers kits (Red Onyx & Blue Onyx wrap) sound as good as the DW drums. I am so blessed & lucky to own these great American drums.. Still hoping to some day to own a vintage Camco kit. The tone is worth the sky high prices these drums fetch nowadays. Camcos are special; rare collectible and playable works of art (IMHO).
@@roadrocket7I’m actually a Rogers guy myself but I love Camco drums and they have an interesting history. Thanks for your input! FYI my favorite kit is my early 60s blue sparkle holiday kit. 2nd fav is my late 60s champagne sparkle kit. I did a video on both of these kits.
I collect Hoshino Camco drums and the original version from 1978 came with rering. It was the exact shell used by LA Camco. In 79 they switched to a non rering shell that keller developed ,6ply maple and very similar to a Rogers XP-8 shell.
Elger/ Hoshino made approximately 600 kits total as production was stopped in late 1980. Left over 14" shells were made into 1981 Tama Superstar MEGA 8 snare drums ,which were 8 inch deep and available in single lug or double lug configuration. These snares had MIJ on the Superstar badge but were made in Bensalem PA for the North American market.
Great info John! It sounds like they initially bought the same shell from Keller for their first Camcos or they did actually get some shell inventory in the deal. Very interesting info. Congrats on your collection. You hardly ever see the USA made Hoshino Camcos out there.
@eddieavakian they aren't easy to find. The Renaissance series is even harder. I'm in the process of buying the first production kit, which was number 3 made. 2) 26" ,12,13,14,15,16,18 plus a 22" ! It's a rering kit that was given to a local Philly player to get feed back on the kits. Number 1 and 2 kits were given to the factory manager ( he still has it) and another employee. There were only two ppl building these drums.
I've been a Tama collector since 1985 but once I got my first Hoshino Camco, I've been hooked!! I like your channel. Keep it up and keep it interesting. 💯
Great job. Time to go hug my Oaklawns
For sure! I need more room at my house. I should have been a stamp collector instead. 🤣
I own a double bass set of Oaklawn Aristocrats in Black Diamond Pearl. I purchased them from Richard Meisler who was my drum teacher and a Camco dealer on Long Island. I purchased these throughout the year between summer of 1967 to 1968 one piece at a time. I was 14 years old and had a lawn mowing service to save money for the drums. In the winter I knocked on doors and shoveled snow to earn money for my Camco’s. A January snow storm was a bonanza for me, it meant a floor Tom and a bass drum. I must have shoveled 40-50 walkways and driveways to earn enough. At each savings milestone I would order one more drum piece to eventually complete a six piece kit. I also ordered the black soft Naugahyde carry bags new at the time with each piece. I poured over Camco drum catalogs and had every page and part number memorized. Those Camco’s were and still are one of the most prized possessions I own. My hands are getting arthritis as I age but I still unpack them every so often and set them up like an old set of trains. I polish the chrome and wax them carefully as gleeful as I did at 14 years old, and every year since, each time a new box was waiting for me at Mr. Meislers studio. My Dad’s old lawn mower and snow shovel made my dream come true, one drum at a time. I owned many other different brands over years but my old Camco’s are still the best drums. Beautiful warm punchy sound almost 60 years later. Thanks for the memories.
Oh man this made me smile. What a great history you have with these drums. Thanks for sharing your story. I'm happy for you that still have those drums. I've spoken to a few people that regret selling theirs. Thanks for watching the video.
Great video, thanks for posting!
thank you so much! I appreciate it! Thanks for watching it.
I only knew the Camco foot pedals and have still been playing with them since 1982. I have a single pedal and a double pedal. The later is from TAMA, although it still says Camco on the pedal.
I use the DW 5000 which is essentially a modern camco. Never played the Tama but it looks identical to the camco. I used to have the Tama iron cobra and that was a great pedal as well.
Thanks Eddie, loved the video
Thank you Peter. I appreciate you watching it and taking the time to let me know that you enjoyed it.
Great to find your portal. l'm a proud owner of a CAMCO C-650 ( custom ordered by Frank lppolito at PPC NY ) In Dec.1975 in Stradivarius finish 14 × 26 bass, 10×14 & 12×15 toms, 16×16 & 16×18 floors and a 453 6 1/2 × 14 wooden snare . Under Elvin Jones recommendation somebody at PPC instaled a Slingerland double tom holder. The sound of these drums is awesome. I still have this kit in mint condition.
I love it! What a kit! If you ever post a video of it let me know.
The Jim Gorden bit was great!!!! Love your videos!! Everytime I watch one I get pumped and go practice, lately on some Gretsch Brooklyns that ring sooo beautifully. I WANT a Camco set!!!!
Thank you for the positive vibes Charles. I think Jim Gordon needs his own video. I was looking to buy a camco while I was making this video but the few I saw were so expensive!! One day I’ll get one tho
Yes, I’m definitely looking. You never know.
@@charlesavino8826 if you pick one up please send me a pic or even better, a video!
@@eddieavakian Will do!!
Camco drums was the drums that Doug "Como's" Clifford used in Creedence Clearwater Revival 13/16/22 from Green River to Madri. Before that Como's used Ludwig kit for CCR self-Title and Bayou Country. Along with Paiste 602
Good stuff Brent! This is exactly the kind of information I’m hoping these videos will bring to light. Thanks for dropping that bit of history! 🙏
@@eddieavakian No Problem
Great show Eddie! Wow, great production and research my friend! I thought one other great Camco drummer, session drummer Mike Botts (Bread, Linda Ronstadt). Awesome Eddie!
Thanks Earl. Fyi in my research I found your video on the drum pedal. That was great info! Thanks for the tip on Botts! Camco could have done a better job at using endorsements. I love love their drums tho.
@@eddieavakian thanks Eddie for mentioning that one! Yea, great drums I’ve never played but always want to play! Great info my friend! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🎄🎄🎄🎄
Excellent video great job.
Thank you Mike. I appreciate you taking the time to let me know Means a lot! ✌️
Alice De Buhr of Fanny was another Camco user ... I saw a TH-cam video recently where she said she still has her Camco kit .... aaaand she knows just how collectable they are . I left a comment on the video about them and she replied .
Nice. I’d love to find that video. I did not come across it in my research for this video.
Fantastic 😍
tama's iron cobra pedals owe alot to the camco 5000 too.
Nicely done.
Thank you Stephen!
I so enjoyed this. I love the sound of camcos
Thank you Terry. Great drums for sure.
@@eddieavakian yes indeed Eddie, very expensive too. At the moment I'm enjoying my 2020 Rogers Covington, I recently gave it an airing at the Brecon Jazz festival here in Wales. Much ❤️ from here and thank you for your amazing work
@@terrydonegan1622 Love the new Roger’s drums. I have two 60s Roger’s kits but those don’t leave the studio. They sound better than kits I’ve ever owned.
Fantastic production of this very informative video. I am surprised that in all of the details about foot pedals, there was no mention of the Ludwig Speed King which had no strap of any kind and never broke.
Thank you for checking it out!. Yes the Speed King and the Camco pedal often come up together. It’s always a struggle to know what to include and what to cut in these videos. I actually have an original Speed King that I only use when I travel because it’s so small and easy to carry.
I met George Way in 1959 when he sold me my first drum set directly from the Elkhart factory…green pearl in 22/13/14/14 snare drum…wish I had that kit today! George Way endorser Eddie Knight was my teacher for four years.
Amazing Scott!! I’m blown away by your personal experience. What I find so interesting about history is that you can’t appreciate it at the time it’s happening. I’ve looked and it’s not easy to find an original George way kit today. In fact I’ve never found one. Do you have any pictures of it? I’d love to see those!
I should have mentioned Eddie Knight in my video. I knew that I’d regret cutting that part out.
@@eddieavakian My dad asked me to “take a ride” with him…which meant riding around picking up insurance premiums (he sold insurance) and when he said “we are taking a short ride to Elkhart” (11 miles from South Bend)…my heart sank as Elkhart at the time was an industry town (musical instruments) and yes, we pulled up to a non-descript brick factory building😡. He said “I’ll be back” which meant I was going to sit in the car until he was done visiting with clients! About 5 minutes later, he comes back and said “I want you to meet somebody”…more groans from me as I dutifully followed him into the building…two doors….and a large room stacked with drum sets up to the ceiling appeared. A rather portly gentleman walks up to me..”Hi Scott, my name is George Way and your dad just bought you a drum set…you can pick out whatever you want…”. OMG…I knew I did not want a lacquer kit…the wall had an assortment of gold, blue, red, silver sparkle finishes (champagne had not appeared yet)…and there was a green sparkle….22” bass, 9 x 13 Tom, 14 x 14 floor Tom and 5 1/2” snare (all aristocrat)… Eddie Knight was my teacher at the time and I am sure Eddie set up the visit with Geo Way…four years later I traded the set for a slingerland blue satin flame finish 18” bass, 2 8x12 toms, 14 x 14 floor Tom and a metal radio king snare…by that time G Way drums became Camco…and Camco became DW and no one remembers G Way drums 🫢. Enjoyed your article a great deal…👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻. BTW…have kicked myself many times for selling that kit for a slingerland…except the chicks loved the blue satin flame finish 😂😂😂
Thanks for doing the digging. Hope you keep telling these stories. I dunno if you did Leedy and Ludwig and Ludwig or paiste but I def remember you did zildjian. Great work man.
Thanks man! I appreciate it. I have not done a Leedy or Paiste one yet.I did get into some Ludwig and Ludwig stuff in my Ludwig-Sonor connection video. Some interesting history there between Sonor and Ludwig in that one. I appreciate you reaching out!
@@eddieavakian I love your deep dives. Paiste is an interesting one from Estonia to Switzerland. I love this stuff as much as you. Even the mentioned of swivomatic and how guys like banjo would use that on Ludwig’s. I hope more comments get you more views. Thanks man.
@@kkupsky6321 Paiste sounds like an interesting one!
pretty sure comments and conversation activity helps the algorithm but not really sure how it works.
don't forget mike botts of bread, linda ronstadt, michael martin murphey, dan fogelberg,andrew gold, karla bonoff, etc,etc too many more to mention...this guy was all over the place for southern california soft rock. he played a camco seven piece kit with 24" bass, 18" and 16" floor toms 14", 13" and 12" mounted toms and 6.5"x14" snare. listen to andrew gold's "lonely boy" playing that offbeat groove while playing a jingle bell stick-incredible.thank-you eddie for this often overlooked brand. these drums sound fantastic, especially jim gordon's drums on souther , hillman ,furay l.p.and traffic's "low spark of highheeled boy's" l.p. and b.w. stevensons "my maria" l.p. or johnny rivers l.p's. this list would be too numerous to mention. thank you again, your drum brother.
Nice Donald! Thank you for added all of this information here in comments for everyone to see. I just listened to Lonely Boy (I haven’t heard it in forever) and that beat is tricky especially for a pop song. I’ll have check out Botts other work. Both you and Earl mentioned him and I don’t know anything about him. Camco drums made it on more records than most people realize. Great drums for sure.
I studied with Jim Chapin in a studio upstairs at Frank Ippolito drums...Great shop, everybody went there.
@@RalphOnofrio wow! That’s very cool. Do you have any pics from back then? I was actually looking for some when I made this video but didn’t find anything.
There's a George Way aristocrat bop kit in natural maple gloss finish at my local drum shop, and I was blown away and shocked at how punchy, fat, and huge the kick sounded with a Remo P3 Fiberskyn reso head, and a P3 Renaissance. It easily sounded like a 20x14.
Beautiful drums..
The Geo Way kits are amazing drums. And they’re reasonably priced. I just posted an interview with Ronn Dunnett where he goes over how he came to make those drums. I think you’d like that video
Thanks for the informative video ! I do own a 10-lug 14x6,5 Los Angeles Camco wooden shell snare drum in the Walnut finish + another L.A. 14x6,5 COB 8-lug model. Both are absolutely phenomenal in terms of sound quality. I will hopefully find a complete L.A. Camco set in the near future but this is going to be a very difficult undertaking as I live in Germany and the drums are even rarer here than in the states.
Thank you Daniel. I know of an LA Camco for sale where I live in Los Angeles. It’s on Reverb and it’s a natural maple finish. The price is pretty high tho, but that’s no surprise. Good luck on your search and if you ever post a video of those magnificent drums, please hit me up. I’d love to hear them.
A video is actually currently in the making ! I'll hit you up when it's online.@@eddieavakian
May I ask what the seller wants for the 6,5, which is currently on Reverb ? Is it an 8 - or a 10 lugger ?@@eddieavakian
@@danielschwarz5335 the listing is for a complete LA kit, minus the snare drum. It’s listed for $4900 US. Natural maple finish. It’s been listed for a while and the price has come down from the original asking price.
th-cam.com/video/BqeqICw5crU/w-d-xo.html@@eddieavakian
Tama made a Camco pedal in 90s. I have 3 of them...😊
Thanks Eddie. A great run down. Keep up the good work. Shalom. 🎉🎉❤
Thank you! I appreciate it!
Shalom?!!
10:00 that kit is on reverb and was lacquer refinished in candy red
Nice. You looking for a camco kit? Not sure if that’s where I saw it but it’s possible.
Great and informative video. I have Rob Cook's book, so I already knew about the history. However, the big mystery that remains is: what kind of wood was used in the layup for the 6-ply shells? Nobody knows for sure. Some of the Camco owners seem to think the shells were 100% maple. I think they were mixed plies. The world may never know...
Thank you! I did a video on Jasper and they used mostly hard maple and sweet gum wood. In that video I had a friend of mine do a short segment on Roger’s shells from Jasper and they were 100% maple per a wood DNA test. Back then the wood type wasn’t a major focus like it is today. I’d guess the pre LA Camco’s were either all maple or maple / gum (Jasper made this combo for Gretsch) The one guy who might know for sure is Ronn Dunnett but even he might not know for certain.
@@eddieavakian I'm with you on this; I think Camco's much-desired Oaklawn-era shell could indeed be the same maple/gum layup as used by Gretsch. They could also be all maple. They 2 biggest key factors in the sound of those drums were the bearing edges, which had a unique radius and back-cut, and the fact that they were significantly undersized, regardless of the drum size. My best guess is that those shells were maple/gum.
FRED GRUBER, Don Lombardi‘s drum teacher was grooming Don to teach his method to teach Freddys method. Freddy was one of the first and main shareholders in Drum Work Shop. Just ask Don!
Another history fact that I didn’t know. Good stuff! I live down the street from the Lincoln Blvd location.
The best bass drum pedal i ever ad as a kid was a tama made camco pedal,better than a ghost (my first) pedal,or a slingerland yellowjacket pedal.later DW and then tama slapped on a metal plate under the footboard around the same period in the 1980's.Lars Ulrich forst drumset playing with Metallica had a Camco Renassanse 7pc set with inlays that he spraypainted matte black!!!! (watch video about Lars gear on youtube) which,was stolen along with guitars and marshalls-yikes.A camco tuxedo snare was p for sale in portland recently for 850, and it sat there for a while.Then a 4pc kkt was selling onlne for 3000,now allegra drums are the hot defunct drums around here.good video!
My first pedal was a Ghost pedal. I never really figured out how to adjust that thing. 😂. Since going to the DW5000 pedal, I never think about pedals anymore. I did not know about Lars playing that Camco kit but painting it black? Ouch! I’ll have to find the video.
Fire!!!
Thanks Brother. This one took some time to get done but it came together.
@@eddieavakian came together beautifully.
I’m off tomorrow to check out a Corder kit.
Sweet!
Hello from Australia! Thanks for this great video. I play Los Angeles Camco set. The snare has always been of concern to me as the bottom or snare snap side bearing edge has a unique factory design which creates a "warp" in the head to allow the snares to sit flatter on the head.....BUT, I have never seen another drum Camco or others, with this feature...perhaps you know of this?
Hello! Aside from the snare concern, how do you like the Camco kit? For your question I’d email Bruce at budsmusic@hotmail.com. He’s the guy at the end of my video that does restorations and has a large Camco snare collection. Most are Oaklawn but I’m sure he knows the LA snare drums as well. Good luck and let me know how it turns out.
Yes, he has a LA Camco snare similar to mine. Everybody who hears my drums are amazed at the volume and sustain generated by such small drums (12"dia. x 7" tom, 14"dia. x 9" tom 14"dia. x 5" snare, 20"dia. x14" bass) They sort of snigger at 'em beacuse my name is Cam also and the drum set is so small!!!! They soon stop laughing when they hear that Camco sound; especially the bass.@@eddieavakian
Interesting about the bearing edges on the snare side . I had a ' Stradivarius ' snare drum , which turned out to be made by Drouyn in the late 50s ( it still had a vellum head when I got it ) an Australian drum company based in Brisbane . It had flats cut into the bearing edge in just this manner .
The tv transition was great, what program? The chain pedal was Elvin and Billy? At FI’s ?
Thanks! Do you mean editing software? I use Final Cut to edit my vids
Herb Alberts, Nick Ceroli
George Way lives on thanks to Ronn Dunnett
Absolutely. 👍. I’ll be working on a George Way video and Ronn will be a big part of it. Stay tuned!
Great well built drums. I just have never like the Turret lugs appearance . Am I the only one?
Personally I do like them, not my favs tho, but I think that they were so different at the time that it made the drums recognizable. I prefer the look of the old Rogers bead and butter and slingerland radio king beavertail lugs
@@eddieavakian I love the older vintage lugs especially Ludwig’s. The New British Drum Co lugs are gorgeous though and take some of their design from Ludwig.
The camco lugs are pretty ugly to me always thought they looked cheap and never got why DW wanted this look for their drums
Walberg. the most interesting of all. And if you are lucky enough to get one on the "precision" kits. yummy
The Hoshino USA made kits? I’ve never seen one for sale. I’m curious how many were actually made. It’s not many for sure.
It's hard to feel good about the Camco name knowing how it became into existence. And something that happens all too often in businesses.
I get it. The story is heartbreaking. It’s hard to feel good about it when you know how it all went down. But thanks to George they were incredible drums.
" moire"
Nice work, thank you.
Thanks Richard! I appreciate it!
I bet you didn’t know that the “round turret” tension casing
Originally started life as a bracket for the bass drum shell mounted cymbal holder. It bolted to the top of the bass drum. it had one channel running through it, and the “L arm” that held a cymbal was attached to the turret, by means of a s”T”screw.
Designed by GEORGE Way it is featured in the back of the 1952 or maybe it’s 1951 lead catalog the one with the orange color. It was a simple holder mounting bracket in its first incarnation that you didn’t know that.
I did not know this. Are you sure? I did an interview with Ronn Dunnett (it’s my latest video) and he discussed the history of the lugs as well as other George Way inventions. Fascinating interview
@@eddieavakian : check out the “orange covered LEEDY catalog” from 1951 or 1952 I think and you’ll see the turret bracket shell mount cymbal holder. It’s a tiny little picture you’re blinking you won’t see it but it’s in there. I guess it was designed by GEORGE Way as a cymbal holder to be mounted on the bass drum shell!
I collect catalogs and I happen to spell bistro, when they’re showing the original lugs and their evolution. I think there’s a quick picture of the L arm bass drum shell mounted turret bracket.
@@eddieavakian : yes, I agree!
@@nealsausen4651 very interesting. I’ll have to track that catalog down and check it out. Thanks for pointing this out!