Ample Battery Swap: Is There A Future In EV Battery Swap In The US?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มิ.ย. 2024
- I visit the Headquarters of Ample Battery Swap in San Francisco, California to check out the company's second-generation battery swap station.
This video is powered by Qmerit, North America’s leading provider of installation services for EV charging, home energy storage, and other electrification technologies. See how Qmerit is making the energy transition easy for home and business owners: qmerit.com/ev/charge
Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:00 Ample's second-generation battery swap station
2:09 I record a full battery-swap session of a Kia Niro EV
5:53 Interview with Ample's co-founder and CEO, Khaled Hassounah
12:58 Outro
Interested in one of the other top-rated EV charging stations we've reviewed?
You can order them here:
Emporia 48-amp: amzn.to/3EgDRGS
Enel X JuiceBox: amzn.to/3UR55Lk
ChargePoint Home Flex: amzn.to/2V3Ye79
Electrify America HomeStation: amzn.to/3Kc7qvo
Grizzl-E DUO: amzn.to/3FYKUWU
Grizzl-E Smart: amzn.to/3BCxexV
Note: I do earn commission from sales generated from the links above - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
This might make sense for ride-share or fleets, but doubt anywhere else. I’m highly concerned about the number of moving parts and reliability. Expanding to an adequate number of charge stations is a monumental task. As Ample refines their process, new battery technology will continue to charge faster so charging is almost as fast as swapping. Charging overnight at home is so easy. I strongly prefer it over stopping at a gas station.
They want to rent batteries. So you buy car but without battery, save about 40% of its total cost for now. this business will be dead when batteries gets cheaper.
CATL/ EVOGO Modular Battery Swapping..... Approach is far superior....
@@TheKeendark The problem with battery rent is that batteries cost actually went down. Thast why despite Nio sell thousand of their cars, people still choose to buy their batteries. And since most of their profit came from battery rent they have to cook up something like 150kw that available for rent only.
unless you don't have where to charge at home you know like 80% of Americans that don't own homes
@@LyuboA About 45%, not 80%, of US population lives in apartments & HOAs with no ability to charge. Some inner city people don’t have a car so they aren’t counted. Many higher end apartments and condos now have charging.
Tom, we appreciate the video. However, this will never be an economically competitive alternative to DCFCharging. Your timer doesn't begin when the car is in position....the timer starts when you first park in line with the other cars that will be waiting in single file line to have their turn to perform the battery swap...just like we all discovered with the famous 15 minute oil change at Jiffy Lube. There is no way that battery swap stations will meet the existing reliability of Electrify America stations in the middle of winter when the cars arrive with all the road gunk stuck to the bottom and dripping downward into the robotics of the system. Stick this tech in the same drawer as the wireless under-road charging tech. Tesla gave it up for one reason....economics. Tesla can do math.
Maybe Jay Leno's fully electric garage will need one of these, so that Jay can quickly jump from one exotic EV to the next for his Sunday runabouts?
When Tesla and Better place tried it, it was aimed at private vehicle owners, not at fleet and taxi owners. Fleet vehicles and taxis that spend enough time on the road each day might not have enough range to last an entire day.
@@Myrtone When the taxis and fleet vehicles run out of charge, they will stop at a DCFC/SuC station and bring the battery up to 80% within 20 minutes. There will be little time gained by swapping. However, the difference in the cost will be immense...and it's not like the fleet vehicles will contain drivers/operators anyway.
@@TeslaDo_d Not according to that video. Batteries are not fuel tanks and charging fuel tanks is sure to be harder than changing batteries. Look at how popular battery swapping is in China. Ample has stations in San Francisco.
@@Myrtone I am writing this as someone who has repaired and maintained many robots in 'cleanroom' environments. The swap station reliability will never compare to an electrical cord at a supercharger. They will need constant maintenance in the harsh environment. The crap on the underside of a vehicle will be constantly dropped into the mechanics area and need to be removed otherwise moving items will be 'ground' to a halt.
China is currently subsidizing NIO's swap stations and NIO is still loosing a ton of money every quarter because they refuse to recognize the economic costs to maintain, power, and monitor the systems. The true costs are not being passed to the customer yet. When they finally try to make a profit by charging the customer for the true costs, the swapping popularity will go to nearly zero.
If you don't believe that a nickel makes a difference then you need to refer to past experience with purchasing gasoline for an ICE vehicle. Remember that station that sold gas for $.05 less than the one across the street? Yeah, the busy one... The one you went to, so that you could save about $.75 for an entire tank of fuel? You might have even spent 5-10 extra minutes of your time waiting in a line to get the cheaper gasoline?
Economics tells me that this idea does not have a chance...same is true for charging coils under the roadway.
@@TeslaDo_d So what about the Ample swapping stations in San Francisco?
No way, I want to keep my own battery that I’ve taken care of meticulously. Charging at home is one perk of why I drive electric and cheaper as well.
No matter what you do with your battery, calendar degradation is real...
@@tazeatand the calendar degradation on the batteries in a swap station is more advanced than on a new car. In addition capitalism is the problem: no battery is getting taken out of service until they cannot milk another dollar from it. Because of that mindset you'll never have my trust that the battery you give me isn't moments from failure or even just operating out of spec.
Why don't we implement a tire swap station? You pay a subscription fee and I take someone's old tires and give them to you when yours are thinner than you like?
I think it can work in cities for people that live in apartments that can't charge overnight and only need it for the city as it could be a nice alternative to other methods of charging. It won't work for many people, but more options are nice.
This makes about as much sense as an engine swap for an ICE car.
No way, changing a battery is way easier than changing a fuel tank, let alone changing an engine. I have an electric bike with a swappable battery and plenty of portable devices have swappable batteries. There are hardly any examples of swappable fuel tanks.
I still think most brands won't go for this for regular passenger cars. Beyond replacing, eventually, the 120K gas stations in the US (for owners that can't charge at home) part of any vehicles secret sauce is performance, and battery chemistry is a big part of that. Both longest range or top performance depending on the goal of a particular car. Everyone is fighting to get The Best Battery and if they all end up with the exact same one, then all you have to sell me on your car is styling and your interior bits. Will the Tesla Plaid, Hummer, and a Leaf all have the same 0-60 time? Actually the Leaf will be much lighter and thus quicker.
I like the idea but am a bit skeptical, I do like the vehicle cost reduction and battery technology freedom(ie use solid state when avail) but see lots of challenges including manufacturer footprint differences, BMS changes etc. I do wish them well! One way or another we need to figure this energy transition out, there will be lots of different ideas/approaches cropping up
CATL/ EVOGO Modular Battery Swapping..... Approach is far superior....
Thank you!
For consumers, I think this is a great idea for EVs as they age and the range decreases over time. Suppose you have a Tesla Y that has a couple hundred thousand miles and the OEM battery only holds up to 60-70% of its original range. Pull into one of these stations, pay a one-time fee, swap it out with a new battery pack and drive off for another 200k miles.
Tom, Will you also have the option to charge if you choose or will swapping the battery be the only option?
Yes, you can still charge it. I'm not 100% sure if you can DC fast charge, though.
So how does this work with thermal management systems. Namely, the coolant passages. I am guessing EVs with battery integrated coolant lines, this wouldn't work.
Very hard to believe the claim of being cheaper than DCFC, especially once you take the land usage into account. Even if you factor in using the stored batteries for grid balancing.
So many potential mechanical failure points.
Can't see it working outside a few niche cases.
Very hard to believe anything from the CEO due to the lack of relevant information and exaggerations. And I'm a confessed battery swapping fanboy.
There's over a half dozen Chinese companies that are doing battery swapping and they all have a better business plan than Ample.
Thanks for at least admitting that grid balancing is one of the advantages. and I will admit that additional mechanical complexity is one of the Trade-offs.
Lastly battery swappable EVs do not have to be dominant, to make a major contribution.
This doesn't really use that much more space than a DCFC, and it has far faster throughput.
@Thunderbuck agreed but every time I've seen a full battery swap for an Ample vehicle it's taken over 10 minutes..... And in China there are battery swapping options. That take under 2 minutes....
If battery swapping makes it to the west, I doubt Ample is going to be the provider....
@@nc3826 Ample seems to be focusing on ride-shares, and that's a smart move because for an Uber driver, time is money. If they sign up a couple of fleet operators in a trial market it could be a winner.
@@Thunderbuck If I was an Uber driver I would consider leasing an electric vehicle with that technology??? But I would not buy the vehicle with that technology.... Since it's so inferior to what Chinese battery swapping companies has to offer..... On which might come here in a few years???
2 questions: In this video from 10 months ago, the Ample CEO said they would be announcing partnerships with OEMs “within weeks.” I haven’t heard of any - am I missing something? Any OEMs headed this way?
Secondly, you asked a bunch of great questions, Tom, but one I didn’t hear is, where are the fully charged battery modules coming from? As customers drive away from the swap station, how would Ample replenish the supply of modules? Are they being recharged on site? (Requiring more real estate and much more electrical capacity) Are they being trucked to the swap station from elsewhere? That’s an important missing piece in this picture.
A lot of people written off battery swapping just because Elon said so and forget EV got the same treatment few years earlier. There is never just one solution and I am all for battery swapping, hydrogen fuel and other alternative solutions to fight against climate changes.
I like the idea of battery swapping, but I don't see how it can work with vehicles such as my R1T that has a large underbody plate bolted on for protecting the battery when off-roading.
The plate would be unscrewed and then put back, I have seen a video of that.
Very good video…I wish Ample best of luck, and TOM mentioned, for now…NIO is really the only one making it work.
🤔...good video but no one asks about what type of battery cooling is used and if it's liquid cooling how is that managed with proper levels, leaks, and preventing air pockets
They aren't offering that information yet...
I've seen numerous interviews of the CEO and he never gives any type of granular details about the technology. But generally the cooling plate remains in the vehicle. And the ends of the batteries come into contact with the cooling plate. Which is what Nio was starting to utilize. When I investigated the same question a couple of years ago.
You might think this is less efficient, but this is how Lucid Does its thermal battery management. Even though of course they don't design it for battery swapping. So it's not usually a major issue. But I don't have a lot of faith in Ample, so maybe they use something inferior???
Thanks for such an insightful question. It was more interesting, than the information given by the CEO.
@@nc3826very insightful answer indeed as that would make sense that the cooling hardware is static to the vehicle and the system isn't being constantly disturbed at various pressure levels with the swap process not to mention introducing air pockets and contaminants during the procedure
@@alittleofthisnthat5665 NP, just to reiterate I have no idea if ample is using anything close to that efficiency.... but hopefully it gave you a general sense of what's possible for for batteries swapping...
i was surprised that it was efficient enough in terms of heat transfer for Lucid to utilize....
Cheaper to install than what? CCS or Tesla Supercharger
What am I supposed to do with the original battery pack that comes with my car? Am I supposed to trade it in to them and they provide the adapter? Can I get it back not even sure how much Batt pack is worth.. If I have a Tesla pack how do I know performance of their batteries? Allot if Qs I am ok with NIO Batt as a service cause its OEM not snap on.
So I'm supposed to trade a battery I've taken care of meticulously for another one, which some nimrod has been treating like dog s**t? Sounds like a brilliant idea!
I want to see 8+ hours of endurance race of the DCFC vs Swapping
While I think this is a bit of a niche, that doesn't disqualify it. Focusing on ride-share seems really smart.
Ride-share and taxis are two domain niche.... But so is city other types of commercial vehicles like cement trucks which have the old dedicated networks..... Plus to lesser extent people n apartments and other forms of shared housing....
But in the US i see pickup trucks.... as an additional market.... Since many people want to be able to Tow with those vehicles....
Can be a pretty substantial Set of niches, when we add everything up....
The up front huge capital cost to create the network is what's difficult to overcome.... So it probably Will happen in stages....
@@nc3826 I mean, I'm not really enthusiastic about battery-swapping to begin with. It adds weight, complexity, and I can easily imagine these stations breaking down. Phones lost swappable batteries years ago because of the weight and space required. But, that said, a company that CAN build a reliably system could do well if they know their markets.
@@Thunderbuck "Phones lost swappable batteries years ago?" Where did battery swapping stations exist for phones? EV with a swappable battery means it's capable of using a "battery swapping station" As an alternative to charging, usually in an automated fashion.... When did that ever exist for a phone?
you're about the 10th person that made that this senseless meme analogy.... Battery swapping for it EV is an alternative for charging correct? So how does that relate to the replaceability of a battery on a phone? it doesn't...
But people repeat things that fit their narrative without thinking about it....
the pros and cons of battery swapping is complex....If the above basic concept is too complex for most people.... then it's kind of silly for me to really be making comments On the subject matter....
Thanks for the input have a nice day....
@@nc3826 Believe it or not, people DID used to swap batteries in phones because they didn't have time to recharge, so it's not a completely invalid point.
Where it REALLY applies, though, is the reasons manufacturers moved away from swappable batteries in phones: they add weight and complexity to the device. Cars with so-called "structural batteries" will NEVER be able to be adapted to swapping, for instance.
@@Thunderbuck swappable EV batteries are leased and exchanged at a battery swapping station.... so it's not the same thing..... (but I will grant some characteristics that are similar)
Famework laptops can easily replace all of its parts not just its batteries.... And it's weight and complexity is the same as throwaway laptops In its class....
So the complexity issue is exaggerated..... Lucid uses a battery thermal system that's compatible with battery swapping.....
show me a vehicle that has a battery that's considered structural or non-structural that can't be replaced?
I see most of these memes originating from fanboys....they talk about how Tesla is structurally integrated so therefore it can't be part of battery swapping..... the original model S used battery swapping..... The stuff is just made up talking points m e m e s.... Why Tesla is not utilizing battery swapping at this point.... It's fanboy rationalization.....I'm not calling you a fanboy.... I'm just saying how it originates....
It mostly comes down to well thought out a design is ..... If something as complex or not.....
Will Ample batteries be able to be charged also by the vehicle's on board charger at a traditional DCFC station as a backup option if I find myself in an area lacking swap stations? I feel this is a requirement to make this approach viable.
I totally agree and xersion one didn't have that capability so I doubt version 2 has it.....
The different options in China are far superior then what Ample is offering...
That will be critical in these early days. Fine for Uber drivers because they are local only anyway but the rest of us need long range.
There’s a company is Australia doing battery swap for big rigs trucks, very effective. For commercial use, makes sense for trucks and big rigs. Would OEMs adjust their warranties to support this ? Would consumers in USA adjust their habits ?
The problem is a lack of standardization and really governments should've been funding open standardization decades ago instead of leaving it to independent companies. I like what Ample is trying to do but I don't think they will secure enough of the market to become an option for the average consumer and even if it does, private EV car owners might only switch to the system once their factory batteries need to be refurbished unless purchasing their vehicles with Ample's system is possible from the dealership's.
I also think they need to provide an external plug and control system hookup so that a swappable external battery or generator trailer could be attached to the system and again the standard would need standardization. We are already dealing with confusion over NACS, if EV's are to fail, it will be because governments do not have the balls to support standardization and we've seen this for decades now.
Look under a car in the middle of a Canadian winter all covered in Ice, frozen slush, salt and sand, how is that going to be removed?
When the salt gets into the exposed electrical contacts in a few years they will rot off.
7:57 peek a boo haha (dude in the background)
You chickend out in calling battery swap a dead end. Come on, you know how this is going to end.
Go tell China....
There are use cases where it makes sense. I don't know if it will ever work in the US for private owners, but for ride share and fleets, it may work
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Exactly, I would think private buyers of electric cars would usually like a car with enough range to last an entire day. 500km real world driving range is sufficient for those who go not further than that in a day.
When Tesla and Better Place tried battery swapping, it was apparently tried on private vehicle owners, not fleet and taxi owners.
I don't see an issue with this as long as the replacement battery packs don't have such bad battery health that the range from them is greatly reduced. But personally, I hate subscription models and avoid them as much as I can. But obviously this won't work with a Tesla now.
And you know that's exactly what's going to happen.
I only see battery swap as great positive if you can't charge at home. (And there's plenty people that can't do that that still wants to drive an EV). For roadtrips you want to be able to plug in your car (not wait to do so), and leave for 10-15min to stretch your legs and sort out physical needs. Then head out again. Loadballanced DC fastcharging sites with decent fast charging cars provide just that. While if you are just charging because you can't charge at home and haven't driven a long time to the station, you much rather be able to book a time slot to come and swap the battery, turn up and leave with as much charge as possible as soon as possible.
Does "fast" charging mean level 3? That would be better be simply called DC charging, which is also the standard for portable devices (such as phones) and electric bikes.
I like the idea of a standard sized module which could be replaced if one goes bad vs trying to replace an entire battery. However for most people who charge at home this does not make sense. For fleet use where you can't have a car down for long charging times, I could see a need.
How did they get funding? Battery swapping introduces a lot of complexity for no gain. My Supercharger stops only take 15 minutes, that's fast enough but in any event as batteries improve that will drop to five minutes. Might take a couple more years, might take 10 years but it's inevitable. That doesn't leave any room for battery swapping services.
Go ask China....
Fanboys.... SMH....
@@nc3826 You mean ask Nio which is losing money hand over fist?
For private autos its a no go. For public transport and truck fleets its not a bad idea. Simply shows that what is old is new again. In the beginning of the 20th century in some major US cities thats what they did. Don't discount it to quickly.
There are numerous battery charging networks in China.... Nio has the least interesting one....
"which is losing money hand over fist?"
what was being said about Tesla for its first 10 years....
@joshuarosen465 thank you for being consistently wrong....
It can happen if it’s a easy plug and play and come in smaller modules.
In cities built vertically it may find a place but owning a vehicle there is a luxury and these partnerships are not with those brands. Filling in between sounds nice but is the least practical business model. Fleets that can AC fast charge overnight is where the need is already being met. 🤷🏼♂️ 13:25
Seems like a good solution for apartment dwellers assuming the batteries can also be DC Fast charged.
this could be a city dwellers dream come true for electrification. if you live in an apartment and do not have access to a level 2 charger, this would be a game changer. It could be a problem on the open road, but if you live in an apartment this could be the answer
We really need our cities to grow up if “battery swap” is a better choice for a city-dweller than “transit” or literally anything else.
It would require standardization among manufacturers as to battery dimensions, connections and mounting points. It's not likely to happen.
there's over a half a dozen battery swapping networks in China, so it's already happened
plus CATL Launched Modular Battery Swapping.... So the model already exists....
It does give up a tiny bit of space efficiency, but In return you get battery swaps that are a fraction of the time of charging....
But It won't see it coming to the United States anytime soon. for virus reasons.... But Nio did promise to come here at some point....
@@nc3826 Except things like that are easy in China because they can give everyone the marching orders.
@@nc3826 Thanks for the information but it's unlikely I will be traveling to Communist China to charge my EV.
@@davidmccarthy6061Nice try.... There are plenty of choices when it comes to what to buy In China.... They buy it because it makes sense for them individually.....
The video explains, this system works with the existing vehicle battery design. They make a modular battery that mimics the original battery and goes in its place.
Not sure how that will work at the consumer level. The original battery has to sit on a shelf somewhere, or be sold as a spare part or something.
But I believe something like this will be the solution for long range trucking.
Was that 6 minutes for one 30 kwh pac? If so, to get a 75 kWh that NIO can do in 3-5 minutes, would require 12-15 minutes with changing multiple 30 kWh pacs? NIO can also swap 100 kWh batteries in the same time of 3-5 minutes. With Ample's smaller battery packs would take upwards to 15-20 minutes to get that same 100 kWh range. Advantage NIO!
Is there a future in China where the EV Market factories & charging infrastructure is for pre-existing EV owners
Mobile battery packs would make far more sense. 150 mile onboard battery with the ability to visit a supercharger and rent a mobile battery that adds a further 250 miles for the time you need long range
That would likely be expensive given the liability it would have to cover.
@@lanceareadbhar It would be cheaper to carry around +300kg of batteries only for the few days a year you need that range rather than 365 days a year
I thought about that. However, with current technology, a battery that fits in the trunk of a car might net you an extra 20-30 miles of range at best, and even then, it would be heavy enough that you'd need machines to lift it in and out. It's also not clear how thermal management would work; in the trunk of a car, these batteries would get very hot when used.
Of course, future battery technology could improve batteries' size/weight efficiency, but by that point, we'll likely have a lot more superchargers, obviating the need to carry all that additional range to begin with.
@ab-tf5fl what I am talking about is a mobile battery on its own two wheels you hitch to the back of an EV when you need a long range EV
You aren't lifting anything in or out of your vehicle
If these existed it would allow truly affordable EVs as the affordable end of the market could be as low as 15KWh 90 mile range EVs which would be enough for most days especially if you live in a city or a smaller country for example in the UK the average daily mileage is only 20 miles so a 90 mile EV would be fine for most people most of the time and then go and rent a mobile battery pack for when you need a 400 mile range EV
People don't appreciate how expensive fully integrated batteries are. People talk about $100/KWg but that is at the cell level. At the pack level fully out the door you are looking at over $300/KWh so a 60KWh pack vs a 15KWh pack is a vast difference of $13,500
So anmodel 2 long range with 60KWh pack at say $30,000 or an identical model 2 with a 20KWh pack but for $18,000.....
I'd take the latter as I live in a middle income country and the additional $12,000 for the long range version isn't worth it. I'll just rent a mobile battery pack for the 5 days a year I need more than 100 miles range ir just accept the inconvenience of multiple stops for those few days a year and save the $12,000 plus lower insurance costs lower fuel costs lower tire costs etc
You did not ask some questions I would have.
How does their modular pack compare to an integrated pack for weight, given the same total kWh?
Can you fast charge their packs as quickly as a native pack, if you are on a road trip and stop at a DC fast charger?
Is ground clearance significantly reduced? It looks like their packs stick down quite a bit compared to the original packs. Is a speed bump or debris on the road going to hit? How about deep snow?
Is the range of the car with a swappable pack as good as the range with an original pack?
What will they do if more EV makers go down the path Tesla has taken and make the battery pack a structural element?
If you used modules how would you match the battery capacities with many nodules?
What about the high voltage connections at 400v and 800v+.
This would be a nightmare in snowy cold climates.
And most cars charge at home ...
Nio is getting near bankruptcy... Due to high costs ...
"And most cars charge at home ..." Is that why we are moving to electric cars?
Are they rolling it out China where pre-existing EV owners .In just getting the customers to then come after after the stations follow
But u did not edit it out 😂😂 Ample time to fix 🎉🎉
Will they be abele to do Tesla as well.?
Tesla planing to use structural battery so probably not. Nio still use old armored pack just like eveyone that is not Tesla/BYD/Zeekr.
EV charging at 250 or 350kw is already very quick and in the future, we will be charging as fast as gassing up…. So this just won’t be necessary until the battery just fails to hold a charge altogether years down the road.
Not really, cheaper car is still on the menu.
Well, I have an electric bike and it takes longer to charge that than it does to fill any fuel tank, including those of trucks. Even charging my phone takes longer than filling a fuel tank.
Faster charging also increases peak power demand.
Sounds like Bullshit Tom. But I thought FB was Bullshit and I lost out on a Great investment. I’ve been catching up with it. The last few years. So never Say never. Great video Tom. Keep up the great work.
You will always be turning in a battery with 10%-15%-20% charge that you paid for but won't get to use.
This will not work with structural battery packa
NIO lost $835 million in Q2 this year. That just show that this technology sounds good on paper but short on reality.
Ample has a great collection of ideas.
They experimented with battery swap in USA with Carter EV program. You needed city bloc big warehouses and had to get entire industry to standardize battery swap.
How many CO’s don’t want to compete or give better batteries 🔋? How about EV Trabants 😆😆
Its just not fast enough and will wear the attachments points.
They're not removing the vehicle battery each time. Their putting in its place a frame and battery modules that mimic the original battery. The modules are attached using hardware designed for this purpose.
It makes good sense for fleet applications. And I believe something like this will be the solution for long range trucking.
I’d like to see a system in the bed of a Rivian where you can add the cost and weight of another 50 kWh battery only when you need it. Same actually for a car. The only cost savings is keeping a smaller battery in for everyday and adding range only for a road trip. Better efficiency with a lighter battery.
I tend to think of this as a terrible idea, but in moving away from the monolith of Petroleum powered cars, maybe we don't need a single solution. This could be perfect for fleet vehicles.
In China NIO has over 1300 Swap stations.
never really had a strong opinion one way or the other regarding battery swaps, though i "lean" towards NOT doing it i'm not "hardline" against it (not yet anyway). however those keeping up with current events will likely have seen the recent video from China where a car (with a supposedly swappable pack) ACCIDENTALLY DROPS IT'S BATTERY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET...!!! now in Aviation terms of risk and probability, i would definitely view that as a "fluke" or a "one in a million event", but what seeing that video should hopefully do is snap the "Stockton Rush types" (you know who you are) out of their tendency to IGNORE SAFETY...
thankfully there appeared to be no fire/thermal runway event (concern #1) but something most will overlook is that an EV battery pack is HIGH VOLTAGE and thus represents an additional risk in terms of ELECTROCUTION (concern #2) and then finally - what should be obvious - is that these packs weigh 750 lbs to 1500 lbs, so if it does detach a Police Officer or a First Responder isn't going to be able to just "push it to the side of the road"...? no, you're going to need a piece of Heavy Equipment (think small crane of boom truck) to lift it clear of the roadway and restore the flow of traffic...
see, there's a WHOLE 'NOTHER angle most don't consider, even though the problem is more or less staring them in the face.
Wireless charging has a better chance to succeed.
This is so daft in the U.K. a kilowatt has a carbon footprint of 224gms according to google , don’t now how far in real life an electric car goes on that but an efficient small ice car is only putting out 70-100 gms per mile and has no massive construction footprint and doesn’t contain toxic chemicals !
my answer is no. Moving parts fail, and conductors tarnish too easily when exposed to air over and over again.
I think this maybe will be good EV adoption because it takes the human element out of the problem. The best way to get people in an EV are rental companies and I've heard so many nightmare stories from people who don't know how to charge, find a charger that get the EV special because its cheaper. Also dealerships struggle to explain EV basics to costumers. Then the people whom have had bad experiences because of lack of knowledge post negative you tube videos. I think if there are stations where everything is automated some people might have a better a experience. I do think this might appeal to some people but I'm guessing most like me love the fact that I don't have to stop at a charging station because I can do it a home. I do like that I can change my cars battery size with out buying a new car. I think this will be great for fleet, commensal and ride share companies. Thanks time for this video.
Thanks for the update on Ample, but it has been around for about a decade. And they still can't give out basic information such as who's the battery supplier or the current chemistry??? And every time I see a swap done by Ample It takes longer than their claims. I like the idea of battery swapping and modular battery swapping even more. But I have no confidence whatsoever in Ample or It's CEO
And there's over half a dozen battery swapping networks in China, of all different kinds. Including ones that are going to be exported to the west. So Nio is not the only battery swapping company. When you get a chance please have some reviews on some of those superior battery swap options. Since there's definitely more than two options out there. And Ample hardly even considered a variable option.
I know there are other battery swap companies in China, but NIO is the only one that has proven a working business model and has the largest network. I do belive CATL will probably be successful also, but they have basically just started with it.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Aulton focuses on taxi drivers . "Aulton's battery swap stations support fast battery swaps in 20 seconds and have a capacity of up to 1,000 services per day at a single station, according to the company."
Geely is leveraging its battery swapping across various brands, Including for cement trucks, CATL EVogo modular battery swapping network does have the most intriguing model. Would love to see it replace Ample in the USA .
There is also a few other battery swapping networks. All of which have more intriguing business models than NIO. I still wish them well but, their business plan is more Tentative, in terms of long term success,
i hope you get to investigate them the next time you go to China.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Is it true that NIO is heavily subsidised and operating at a loss like @TeslaDo_d claims?
@Myrtone I think it's safe to say that most, if not all Chinese car companies are subsidized, but not necessarily directly as we think of.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney I see a few comments claiming that battery swapping is not viable or will never be competitive to faster charging, possibly by know-it-alls.
If battery swapping made any sense, your phone, laptop, tablet, etc, etc would be that way….
Battery swap technology is, in fact, used widely today for electric lawn equipment. For example, if your leaf blower runs out of power, rather than wait for the battery to charge before finishing the job, you can just swap in the battery from your lawn mower.
For lawn tools, I think battery swaps make a lot of sense, as these batteries are small enough and light enough to be swapped by hand. For car batteries, which are much bigger and heavier, not so much.
this is the smartest solution; converting gas stations along the way. EV racing needs to adopt this too. I can't believe they haven't.
I don't think car battery swaps has a future.
Example:
iPhones *never* could swap out batteries and nobody complained.
Android phones *used to* have swap out batteries, but eventually followed iPhone's trend and stopped doing it.
lmao....
we miss those Android phone battery swapping stations ;)
The phones you mention have smaller batteries and use much less power than cars.
I still can't get behind the idea of battery swapping. Too much complexity just to try to save 15 minutes on a charging stop. It would make EV's cost more, weigh more and reduce their maximum battery capacity.
Stupid when NiO did it and still stupid the security of the batty is in Question especially in a Crash
Corny is OK!😂
battery swap makes sense in cities.
If Ample is getting $1,000,000 per battery swap they’ll probably make it.😊
When you consider that these battery powered vehicles are un insurable why would anybody bother with flawed tech.?
I feel bad for these guys. Its a doomed business model.
This looks to me like a solution in search of a problem
I would not do it to dangerous to get a bad battery
This might make sense to Gen Z where they don't own anything and apparently are happy about it (?), but for everyone else I'm thinking this will be a major failure. Solid state battery (or other tech that gets you a charge similar to a gas fillup) is the way to go, in my opinion.
Swapping batteries would be best for local commercial trucks, farm tractors/equipment… maybe even semi trucks. It would save peak electric use.
No, I don’t see ANY reason for a passenger car to have this. It’s ridiculous at that scale.
And for larger vehicles - trains exist. There’s no point.
I think the primary target audience for battery swaps is uninformed consumers who are interested in EVs, but have experience only with gas-powered cars, and are worried about charging times and battery degradation being a much bigger issues in modern cars than they actually are. (Some of these concerns are based on projecting limitations of the EVs of 10 years ago onto the cars available today, ignoring the fact that technology has advanced).
Unfortunately for whoever is promoting, this is a target audience group that is going to rapidly shrink over the coming years.
Battery swap is the only future for EVs. Owning the battery is a disaster in waiting for the used car market.
Degradation and replacement is a huge pitfall for resale and contributing to them already sitting on used car lots. In fact many dealers refuse to sell them.
No, it’s not viable in a world where every battery pack is different. For fleets yes, but most fleets have the luxury of nightly plug in.
Ample has a modular battery pack that fits in a wide range of battery electric vehicles.
@@Myrtone Modules, not battery assemblies. Time is a big factor.
Short answer. No!
This company will fail. They don't manufacture any vehicles, and must convince the EV manufacturer to design their EV's battery pack to be removable. Now that the big players have jumped on board to using the Tesla connector, there is no reason to have removable battery packs.
True, Tesla connector are magic....
didn't Elon say batteries aren't even needed once you have a Tesla connector?
just buy new EV when your battery goes empty 😂
Your footage of NIO swap is so out of date current NIO tech is way ahead of that.
I used the footage I shot when I did a few battery swaps in Beijing in late 2019. I know they have newer swap stations in service.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Dude you need to go back to China so much has changed. Also Beijing is not the best example. Next time visit Shenzhen and Hefei these are the two leading eco-tech cities,
also nicer, modern, smaller cities with only 12 million instead of Beijing's 24 million population...almost a village LOL! Plenty of manufacturers from EVs to SOLAR gear that you could arrange to visit and a get a tour with. Team up with a Chinese EV TH-camr or one of the China based expat TH-camrs. Just standing on the corner of an intersection in Shenzhen's tech district and count the cars, buses and vans with the Green licence plates...amazing.
Does battery swap has a future outside China? For cars, SUVs and pickup trucks - - not a chance. For fleets of semi trucks that own the batteries being swapped? Yes. At least in the short term until Lithium Sulfur and other chemistries hit the market.
This looks and sound like another company trying to scam investors.
I don't know about Ample. Hopefully they will be a solution for fleets in cities.
But I definitely think modular battery swapping will be the solution for long range trucking, and maybe other heavy duty commercial applications.
6:04 "...tell me a little about what you're doing here..." It's written all over his face that what he's doing is taking investor money and building something he knows no one will ever use. Fun to watch him give an answer though 🤣
No
No.
The most idiotic idea ever.
They have been doing it with fork lifts for over 50 years. Problem with the extreme fast type 3 EV charger they need several hundred amps of power. Good luck trying to get the typical lazy foot dragging ultilty company to provide enough power for say 6 type 3 chargers. I retired from a large hospital where the local electrical supplier paid them a lot of money evety summer to peak shave 3 megawatts of powet during hot summer days. They did this by running four big natural gas generators and transferring the mechanical loads to gen sets and starting up 3 or 4 boilers and run air conditioning off steam turbines.
NIO tech does it faster.
Bloody hell stop with the swap BS....let this go please.
Battery swapping is not viable.
No
No.