At the very end of your video you talked about using 2 inverters and one of the reasons not to was because of the synchronization issue. Yep, true. I took 2 cheapie low power inverters and stuck a probe from a volt meter into the "hots" of each inverter both running and got the same results! A swing between 0 and 240 volts! Crazy. I have heard of some special inverters that can be tied together with a special patch cord that will force them to sync up. Then each one would be like a L1 and L2 like the grid. Cool.
Loved this info tube show. PROFESSIONALLY Put a PIG connection (220 female) on the garage with a transfer switch and box with enough switches to run the 2 baths, living room, and 4 bedrooms lights & plugs. Plus the fridge - with my propane generator for as long as the canned propane lasts (read 9000 watt generator w/ 20 horses - a gas hog for the PIG!). Then I went looking for a double 220 female (suicide type - to no avail either - I have to make it myself if I get the guts) plug - so I could plug in - or figure out how to get the system to run with my four separate solar type generators. I have some 14 - 285 watt panels on the roof (Solar World) that the county electric company has me hostage via the "smart meter" for dummies. Now with your videos and my playing around in "seniorhood" (read childhood redone) I'm trying to avoid electrifying myself like a Christmas tree with some 4 inverters (both types pue & modified), 7 AGM batteries, 10 separate solar panels and such fuses and switches to save my bacon before I cook it. I have learned to make all kinds of electrical connections. Thank GOD when I was younger I wired many garages for myself and family members. I love plugs and switches and LOTS of lights - especially the new LED 4-foots that switch out from Costco. My question to you is if you got through all my baloney above - is name me three very good inverters that you would buy for long term heavy duty work in the 2000 to 3000 watt range - I would like ones that could run a fridge if possible. Double sided - like YOURS!
I looked at all the invertors on the market for backup, and settled for a 9KW with wireless remote starting. Generator outputs 120V/240V that powers both sides of the breaker panel, bringing everything in the entire home to life. Costing less than $1k; there are no battery banks. Runs about 11 hours on one fueling. Invertors draw heavy DC current. 4 cans of gas = 4 days and nights of powering everything in your home. Great for ice storms. During a ice storm in Virginia several years ago on Christmas day, I completely powered up my mother's home. We had a regular Christmas dinner that holiday and all the relatives came over. Generator in the back yard I connected to her breaker panel powered all the lighting, the oil burner for heat, a fridge, freezer and her electric range. Every 11 hours I shut it down and poured in 4 gallons of fuel, and restarted it. Yes it was noisy, but well worth it. A comment someone made below about 48V is a good idea; the closer the DC voltage to the invertor is to 120V, the more efficient the invertor will be. If you had a invertor that could operate on 150VDC, you wouldn't need a transformer in the invertor. A 1000W invertor will pull approximately 100A from the battery bank when running at full load, not including invertor efficiency losses. Forget about starting most AC motors with it; many motors running on 120V can have inrush currents of 2x to 4x their running current rating which can trip a breaker in the invertor (if it has one.) Garage door openers also have this problem - note that you didn't see him lower the garage door during the video. Invertors are best a running lighting and very light electronic loads. But when the batteries die, they die! Trying to charge invertor batteries from a vehicle while the invertor load is running is a risky proposition - connecting your battery and alternator to such a heavy load could create a spike that could destroy the alternator. Now you'll be out about $500 and be sitting in the dark, with a vehicle that won't charge it's own battery and may not start.
What if you got a 240V inverter and connected the active and neutral to the 2 actives on the fuse box and the ground to the ground/neutral on the fuse box? Wouldn't you be able to power both phases and the 240v circuits as a bonus? Or would everything just catch fire?
This is not the place to get this advice. Most everyone here has no idea how to do this safely. Try a website like Stack Exchange or Do It Yourself. These guys will get you killed.
I devicesd a method of making a suicide cord safer by having a circuit that detects current and only makes connection between the cord ends when both ends are plugged in. As soon as a plug end is disconnected, the connection between the ends is broken and no current can flow.. this help prevent getting shocked by the exposed male ends.
Great video! Apparently there are a lot of people trying to back feed through the panel, I only hope they watch this video before they try it. Weather it's inverter or generator. Thanks knurlgnar, you may have kept a lineman safe or someone from burning down the house!!
Thanks for your comment and you hit the nail on the head regarding the purpose of this video. Backfeeding isn't the safest method for powering a house but I know that many people use it, so hopefully illustrating some of the potential complications will keep people safe.
I understand the grounding theory and how you showed the connection to the BATT ground and the ground of the outlet. I have a Vector that I just checked for that and it seems as though the battery ground is not connected to the outlet ground so I shouldn't get voltage sent into my batteries. Could I still use the vector to feed my circuits in my home and still use the ground connection? In your other videos you made your connections without the ground. Also, whats the main difference between a batter backup (UPS) vs an inverter with batteries? m assuming it has something to do with the grounding and neutral. Normally I use a generator but im also looking to go with a battery system with solar charging. Thanks for any info!!
The battery negative is often effectively referenced to the midpoint between the neutral and line on less expensive inverters. If neutral is grounded (as it is in a typical household electrical system) this results in the battery connections being driven to one half of AC voltage. This isn't a problem as far as the inverter is concerned but it could be a safety hazard.
So, If you had use the 220 dryer connection you would have to trip the main,and all non used breakers? I plan to buy a pure sign invert.....and some batteries, as i live on the gulf and bad weather. Only needing to run a couple fans( for the night till I see the drain on the batteries). Would you use a bigger gauge wire for the 220 to 110 suicide cable? Thanx
Hi, i can follow you guys all the way up to your 120, 120, 240, volt power boards, over here we are all 240v. My question is please, can a (240v) pure sine inverter run with its neutral and earth connected ? Our mains power boards have a big fat earth cable that goes to the neutral bar. So if i isolate the inward mains Active power only, can i connect my pure sine inverter to the neutral and active in my power board ? Would my inverter blow up? I learned that a modified sine inverter wont do this, I learned the hard way :-( so now im worried. Love your stuff, thanks from Australia :-)
Anyone attempting to duplicate the method shown deserves the Darwin award for stupidity. Hire an electrician, and install a transfer switch. If you attempt to sell a house with the wiring as such, you will need to remediate it anyway.
I have just been learning this i knew that i was energizing only one half of my panel, and your are explaining it very well thank you for this, cant wait till part 2!!!
BACK-FEEDING IS 100% SAFE AS LONG AS YOU SHUT OFF THE MAIN BREAKER TO THE PANEL AND DISCONNECT YOUR HOUSE FROM THE STREET POWER.. YES IT IS THAT FUCKING SIMPLE... YOU SHUT DOWN THE MAIN BREAKER AND NOW YOU CAN BACK FEED POWER USING ANY OF THE 240V BREAKERS IN THE HOUSE... OR ANY OF THE 120V OUTLETS IN THE HOUSE (which will only energize one buss bar in the panel, which means only half the house will have access to 120V) ... I am no electrician and i guarantee you any electrician will back up my statement, the next thing is to monitor how much power you use because that 240V generator will prob only supply 30 amps so now you must prioritize what you use in the house and dont go flipping all the breakers on because now you will over load the generator and pop fuses and breakers, you backfeed thru the dryer OR stove, then you flip open the breakers to the rooms you NEED... not all of them.. PRIORITIZE YOUR NEEDS
Thank you very much, it makes me feel good to know that you are on my side and understand my point of view... I just ignore these other IDIOTS on TH-cam that say back-feeding is dangerous and the suicide cord will kill you...
Lol, I have had a few of "those guys" commenting on my vids on this subject...you know the kind, know it alls with no content on their channels. They got blocked
In Aus we have 240 volts that makes hooking up in power outages easy. Of course as you stated early in the video it is vitally important to ISOLATE THE MAIN POWER SUPPLY INLET BEFORE CONNECTING ANY INVERTER. We also have 3 phase 415 volts for industrial use. cheers big ears.
Plus you make stuff very longer an complicated. Just buy 2 phase or 3 phase inverter,depending on your location. That supports on grid and off grid modes. And let certified electrician to connect your inverter to mains. Everything else you can connect your self.
My way was to put a welding outlet in my garage and use that to backfeed into the house from my generator. Outlet is 50 amp, the generator is outside and no wiring or worrying about phases. Step one turn off main breaker, step two plug generator into outlet and step three start generator. I ran my house that way for 15 days after being hit with a tornado three years ago.
I love living in a 240v country! I have 3,6 Kw from a simple plug in my bedroom! In a 120 v country you have to pray that your house doesnt burn down when you connect a space heater. But if i touch the outlet the chances of me dying are higher.
Old wiring is a problem no matter where you live. In the USA we have 120V appliances but the fire risk is near zero in newer buildings built to code. If your wiring is older than the 1970's then yes I'd agree. An odd factoid: 120V is far superior to 240V for incandescent lighting which is why 100V ish was chosen for the system here. Today a 240V system would definitely be better but the system is fully in place at 120V and will likely never change. It works just fine and changing would be a complete mess.
Correct me if i'm wrong but if you had no intention of using ANY 240v appliances you could use 2 inverters correct? Just turn off the breakers? I feel like i'm missing something
yes you are, 2 inverters are a problem because they both have to be in sync with each other, so if one interter is set to 60mhz and another is set to 60hmz just one millisecond after the other there will not be a proper 240v and it will destroy your equipment! and they must be kept in sync the hole time.
fliping720 I do not plan to use ANY 240v appliances and like I said I will switch off the 240v breakers, so neither circuit should be able to see the other side right?
kf7tkj If you use inverters that have a live neutral they will be referenced together at the batteries and you'll likely end up with damaged inverters. Most inexpensive modified sine inverters (including the Xantrex shown in this video) are this type and won't work. If the inverters are not live neutral AND have isolated inputs/outputs (most pure sine inverters are in this category) then it would technically work to use two inverters as you describe, however any tiny mistake and one could blow up expensive inverter equipment. It is just too easy to accidentally, with some unknown/unforseen mechanism, get live power applied to the output of an inverter that way in my opinion.
Newbies be aware: even when the main power is 'off' the two 120vac service leads are always on and are deadly. Do not open or work on your own box after simply watching this video.
And the deal about backfeeding..linemen always assume power could be in the line..and wear full safety gear anyway... silly laymen. ..by the way any short on the powerline side would trip the breaker on the generator anyway. ....
I'm from Germany and your fuse box scares me oO So many exposed blank wires :O. At my home the ground wires are seperately connected to every fuse. If more than 30mA float threw the ground connection the fuse will cut off the power. (required by the law)
Watch, but do not copy. This is illegal, dangerous and will void your homeowner's insurance. You may get your electrical meter pulled too - no electricity to your house anymore.
J S and a million others things are illegal... we are not allowed to do anything that doesn't involve paying the piper, so most of us don't give a shit about petty crap like keeping your family warm in an emergency like aftermath of a hurricane or other type problems we encounter. Yes, you need to know what your doing and to make sure it is done in a way that wont hurt yourself or others but that is where a lot of us draw the line, hence this informative video you found yourself watching.
Keep your family warm by plugging whatever you need directly into your generator, that works just fine. You think that you "know what you're doing" and that you've thought of everything that the NEC thought of and that you couldn't possibly hurt anyone, until something happens that you didn't think of. Believe me, you haven't thought of everything.
there will never be a 2 phase going to a home. you have a transformer with you get your power from and its single phase. its a center tap Transformer. if you check it with and scope you will see they are single phase.....but still a good video either way.
Split phase has two phases each 180 degrees out of phase. It is normally created by a transformer with a center tap as you describe and is commonly referred to as single phase since a 180 degree phase shift can be created with a passive device off of single phase power. Electrically speaking there are two distinct phases in split phase and I found that nomenclature more useful for the purposes of this video. 3 phase has three phases 120 degrees out of phase. Split phase has 2 phases 180 degrees out of phase. It's a matter of semantecs.
The suicide method using a dryer plug ....ALWAYS...Turn your main on the breaker box off. Then the linemen don't get fried...but their always supposed to check the line for current PRIOR to working on it...It works both ways....
So the lineman checks the line, it's dead, and starts working. He's still working when you get up from your beer cause the lights are off and stumble into the basement and plug this BS setup in, then remember that you were supposed to shut the main, no problem, you run over and shut it off. The lineman is already dead. Or you shut the main off but your kid uses the microwave and trips the breaker. He goes downstairs and turns on both the kitchen breaker and the main - both were off. Another dead lineman. Of you thought you were smart enough to ALWAYS isolate the main, and so did 50 other people in your neighborhood, but one did it wrong - another dead lineman. You are on a public website preaching to the general public to do this. What do you think the odds are that EVERY ONE will do this "safely." Would you bet your life on it? Didn't think so. Don't bet the lineman either, jerk.
Also I am not going to grid tie, I will run TV and PC (possibly some other small draw items) off of the battery bank and let the propane do the rest. hoping for around 500-700 watts total, which is kindof overkill but I want to eventually feel comfortable powering a whole house. The primary motivation for both wind and solar is the fact that I live in washington state and particularly in the winter time, we have very little in the way of sunlight.
+Jeromy Stewart I believe solar and wind have different charge characteristics so likely you would need a solar and wind controller. As long as the battery settings in the controllers are the same, you shouldn't have a problem.
Great video. I will do something similar, although I plan to build a completely distributed off grid system integrated with both pv and passive solar. Each room will have it's own system. This means if one of my kids likes his room at 68 degrees in the summer, he will be able to control it specifically for his room. Each inverter, battery(s), and solar photovoltaic will be dedicated to its own section of the house.
I would like to try to have separate banks for each room, but have some sort of bypass switching so that each room could be standalone, or connected to a main.
You said there are 2 methods. I am going with method #3. During my remodel, my house is getting a separate electrical system. Each room has a "green" outlet that goes to the inverter. Then the microwave, fridge and freezer has a green outlet beside the public power system. This way, I have a backup. It is hot 24/7 and ready anytime. No interfering with the standard electrical power..... Also, know your loads. I am still gathering data. Refrigerator running 330w 1.7kw a day, Freezer 345w running 1.8kw a day, Propane furnace 290w running 1.6 kw a day, microwave 880w running 1.1 kw per week, Oxygen machine 680w running 6.8kw a day...... It all adds up fast. Know what you really need.
The microwave will be a HOG. You may need a separate inverter just for that appliance.The refers have a start up wattage requirement. You plan on running a LOT of watts,there.
So, as I mentioned, the house has a separate electrical system. That is the third way... 2:35 #1 use extension cords, #2 2:45 transfer switch. Thus, my way of having a separate electrical system, separate from the public power system is the third way..... The power consumption is a separate issue I was just reminding people about..... As for power, I have found used pure sine wave inverters. (3- from 1000w to 2500w) Each can be to a line for different uses.... Use one, use all, what ever you like. (For those people planning to jump me for that comment, don't say something stupid like you can not put multiple inverters together.... if you don't know how to separate different runs, skip to easier things)
2 is 1 and 1 is none.... I would rather have 2 or 3 smaller inverters running to outlets in separate rooms, than have 1 for the entire house. 1, I can turn off ones I don't need. 2, if one burns out, I still have something to work with.... besides, the power used in the house, will be the same load on the battery bank (minus effeciency, give or take). As long as the battery bank is big enough for one system, it is big enough for the other, if power consumption is the same.
Hookin a pure sine wave inverter to your house wiring is a bad idea. Basically turns your house wiring into a high frequency output antenna. It’s not really a pure sine wave. It’s a modulation device that simulates a sine wave. If it doesn’t drive you crazy, it will kill you!,,
I have a mobile home, and I am adding on to it. I am getting rid of the breaker panel, as I need more breakers. My question is I am going all solar,wind, and generator for back-up. I am using a 3000 watt power inverter, and a 100amp breaker panel, 20space. I am trying to figure out how I would wire this inverter to the100amp breaker panel. I am doing completely away with the power company, and I will probably add on a meter to sell back power to the power company later down the road. I use a swamp cooler, and wood stove for heating, a hot tub Jacuzzi,and lights frig,freezer. So I think this 3000 amp inverter will work,just need help wiring it to Homeline HOMVP5 100amp/20space. I have 2-6' ground rods for ground, and there is no power here now, as I am using a generator, and get tired of the noise.
That sounds like a very interesting project! Most of your questions are building code related and I am not legally qualified to answer those in detail, but if you plan to make this permanent and also connect to the utility then you'll need an interlock kit or a transfer switch of some sort.
I prefer a distributed system - Individual batteries, and smaller inverters in each room with automatic switching on power out conditions. Easy to implement with relays, and less efficiency losses. Larger inverter for kitchen. When one battery goes flat, oh well - still have light in the living room.
*************************************** *** I am NOT an electrician. *** *** Mine is NOT a qualified opinion *** *************************************** I believe this can be done safely with an additional breaker just for backfeed, and a lockout mechanism ($40-50) to make it impossible to have both the backfeed breaker and the main breaker on at the same time. I believe one can then hook a shore power jack to the backfeed breaker. I believe e could substitute backfeeding each side of the split phase by attaching an extension cord to each side of the split phase output of the correct type of inverter(s) to an outlet wired into the home system. Again, I believe this can be done with a mechanical interlock between the main breaker and a dedicated, backfeed, breaker. That appears to be a low frequency inverter, which cost some money that size. Pretty surprised he didn't get one with a split phase output, or two, identical single phase inverters which can be electronically linked to provide split phase (like @DAVIDPOZ' setup)
@@lloydrmc yes, there are interlocked circuit breaker devices just for this purpose. I really hate to see this approach though, for one thing if you use too small a wire size it will heat up and can cause a fire. Or if its run nestled against the other wires in the panel and manages to short to them the interlock is useless. Once you power (backfeed) the utility line the whole high voltage line outside goes back up to its rated voltage , and that's a killer for anyone working on it. It may last for only a short time but that's enough to kill someone by either electrocution or by falling out of the bucket as their body reacts to the really powerful shock. A high voltage shock will kill a person almost instantly, and that little generator has enough oomph to do it. In ANY CASE - its much safer to use a manual or automatic transfer switch that's designed to safely connect your generator to your house. What gets me is that they save a couple hundred bucks but if something happens, will they look at the whole mess and think "gee for just a small amount of money i could have avoided all this"? There are places in life to save money - this ain't one of them. BTW I am a master electrician. TH-cam should really take this down.
In case you dont get to it, I want to connect my 2- separate 120v. inverters to my house with 2- large Power Stations, one connected to the A Leg and the other to the B Leg. Do the Neutrals have to be separated, since they are not phased to produce 240v from 2- separate Inverters
In the US, the neutral is a groundED conductor. The bare wire is a groundING conductor. They are connected together and to earth at the service entrance, and only there. Neutral is normally pretty close to ground potential, other than a small voltage rise due to the current in the wire. Neutral isnt a hot wire here. That isn't true in some other countries.
The Neutral CONNECTS to Ground at the outside main panel... The Neutral does NOT carry current... If the Neutral carries current then every CATV and Telephone repair man would be DEAD when they grounded out their facilities to electrical ground...
J S: Okay so why is it that when i TOUCH the Neutral wire i don't get zapped..?? If this were true that the N carries current then every metal piece in the house that is GROUNDED would be HOT and energized...
This is why there is a main breaker to be shut off to prevent back feed into the street... once you shut off that main breaker AS HE SAID IN THE VIDEO WHICH YOU CLEARLY DID NOT HEAR OR UNDERSTAND..... once that main breaker is OFF, your pretty lineman are safe
Not good enough. Not even close. Why don't I wire each of your hands to my electric oven and tell you, "Don't worry, every time I use the oven, I'll remember to temporarily disconnect you!" Oh, and 100 other random idiots are also going to do the same thing. All wired through your heart. What's wrong with that?! Stupid government, always telling my sassy you-know-what what to do!
Hi, this is Gabriel from México.i'd like to ask you if you have test the 1000w SW Xantrex inverter, 'cause i want to buy one for my solar project . is it real pure sine wave or fake? Thanx
It's also a video on how to kill. I guess he's confident that thousands of random TH-cam people doing this after watching a TH-cam video won't crap the bed ever and kill someone. Or he just doesn't care.
Really? ARE YOU SERIOUS!!! I am a licensed electrician and do everything from basic home electric up to and including 480VAC 3Ph services and generators with some customer owned high tension service work at 12.8KV. I can't even begin to tell you of the dangers you are exposing people to with this video. I will try though. There is not a municipality in any civilized country that allows this to be done. The service provider will pull your meter and require that you hire a licensed electrician to repair and inspect the service should they find this done. Should you forget and/or make a mistake and back feed the line as this clown advises the line crew could be exposed to not just the 120/240v that the inverter or generator is pumping into the line but the step up voltage which in most cases is 4,800 or 12,800 Volts. A man or men could die because of what this guy is telling you to do. Do not follow this video, this is just about the most stupid thing I have seen on TH-cam in some time. One more thing Using a pair of inverters like this guys recommends will not work properly and could burn up your neutral wires in your home in certain wired schemes should you follow this garbage advice. I will not detail the reasons as I am done here. Contact a licensed electrician, there are back feed kits for some panels that have an interlock system that requires a break before make to properly back feed a service. There are also transfer switches, both manual and automatic, that can be installed. Don't be stupid, don't be this guy.
What about installing a separate small box we're both 110 volts come together ground that box separately and neutral even though they're the same then just jump over to the fuse box Run 2 a single 220 which will power both sides of the box run your ground and neutral along with it to your normal ground and neutral stepping up from 110 to 220 before you hit the Box on a inverter especially cheaper ones there is no ground the ground and neutral circle on the bottom are both one in the same that is why the inverters blow up you hook a ground to a positive. So you take the two one tens and that neutral and ground wire off of the inverter run it to the first box combine the two top post that are positive in the circle you install a neutral and ground wire from that little box off of one wire and then install a regular wire to the two wires coming in to the box that are hot and jump the ground in neutral into the box into a single 220 breaker all of your problems are solved safe cheap and effective
I’m planning to do the same thing my friend , Battery-BackUp - with a DIY Self-sufficient Generator - I was planning on hard writing it into the breaker box on a 100 Amp Double Pole Breaker or I have a 220v plug out-let which is never used anymore I got rid of my compressor it was a Craftsman 6 Hp. 33 Gallon tank my election wired for me as you just explained he wired it off each side of the breaker box given me 220v my 5KVA Pure sine wave inverter is single phase 220v-249v I was debating on removing the plug outlet and hard-wiring it straight into the line which will back-feed both sides of my Breaker-box and the only time using it is in a power- Failure ! On my Box the way they wired it is each leg not like toured into the top but the top 2 breakers are the power wires from the street shut the top 2 breakers off you kill all the electrical from my house ! That’s for the video I will watch what you’ve done thanks ! Now back to you’re work ! Thanks
Very timely videos for me. I am in the middle of my 750w solar install. I have the Samlex 1,500 Watt pure sine wave inverter with that hard wire connector. I am interested to see how you tie into both legs. I would assume you need to flip off all double pole breakers first.Great info videos....Thanks
Yes you would want to turn off all of your 240 volt appliances by physically flipping the breakers associated with them especially for something like an expansive heat pump.
Our family did this during hurricane sandy...not even a suicide cable, we literally just twisted the ends. However we only connected one circuit (the boiler) for heat. We have a gas boiler, so it doesn't require much power.
If you live in the U.S. You do not have two phase service ( two lines 90 degrees out of parallel at 60v each ). You have single phase ( 180 degrees out of parallel at 120v each ). Even if you did have two phase with your current electrical panel your 240v circuits would only be running on 120v and your 120v circuits would be running on 60v. Smart guy improper terminology.
Have you heard of using a Toyota Pruis as a battery bank to power your house? if so how would/could it be done? I was reading a ham radio article that talked about it. "Rethinking Electrical power for the Ham" QST August 2012. For that matter is it possible to use any of the new plug in cars as a battery bank by just shutting off the main breaker to draw from the battery bank of the car? Let me know what you think?
a prius battery wouldnt be able to do it for long as the battery bank is really tiny if you had a step down converter you might be able to hack a tesla model S to backfeed into your house
Hello how are you doing i have 3000 watts pure sine wave 48V DC 110V-48V 60Hz Cnswipower what gade wire to used i have used 4 12 volt battery to 48V deep cycle 230A
well today i was just doing little testing 1500 watts inverter 120V 60Hz 12A,digsaw 120V 60Hz 7A and nexr digsaw 120V 60Hz 4A i run three things at same times and it work not Milwaukee power station they have 🙂🙂🙂🙂 am using it for work will it run TaleSaw 15A 120V 60Hz
@@andyjack2368 Quality table saws are usually pretty brutal loads for inverters as they require far more than nameplate rating to actually perform adequately. Under load they can easily draw >30A or 4kw for short periods of time. The 3kw CNSWIPOWER I tested would work well, but I'd expect a 1500W inverter to be inadequate.
They do make dual single phase 240 volt from 12 horse power gas powered generator, as no 240 volt power inverter, 'why?' The cost, or needed 2 circuit batteries banks plus the special circuit built in inverter that do 180 degree phase of 60 hertz.
+Stan McBeth (STANTHEMAN770) They absolutely make inverters running form single bank with a split phase 240v output. Check out the Schneider Electric XW or Connext SW systems. 2500W up to (?)10,000W
"Hello. I live in a building of 16 flats. Every house has been given one bulb point for generator use. However, it does not function when there is normal power. Can they connect only one bulb point to the generator without going through the main power line?"
I thought that L1 and L2 supplying the breaker panel are single phase. It's 240v with a center tap of a winding in the transformer that results in 120v on each side. The term "phasing" would apply to the synchronizing of the 2 inverters in the 60 cycles. Three phase power would be three 240v - 60 cycles at 120 degrees apart.
Dumb question but would it be ok to use two inverters into two different outlets if you first disconnected the main and then switched off all 30 amp 240 double pull breakers so that they are not connecting your two out of phase 120s? Obviously it wouldn’t be appropriate or even possible to run appliances that large off an inverter plus as you stated they would out of phase.
Hey Knurl, question for you. I need to connect my generator outside to a transfer switch next to my main panel but I have no way to run a cable from one to the other. Is it ok to swap out a wall outlet in my patio with an inlet and connect the generator to it, then disconnect that old old wall outlet's cable from its corresponding breaker and connect that cable to the transfer switch? Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Some inverters like the ones built into the Honda generators are protected against backfeed (that's how the parallel kit works) and can be used to power one side with another backfeed-protected inverter or generator powering the other side. The A/C isn't going to even notice unless you try to turn it on, but you can just switch off all the 240V breakers to further guard against it. Resistive loads won't be damaged, but would probably operate erratically or not at all.
It is important to turn off ALL 240V breakers, even the resistive ones. If one of the two power sources goes out (out of fuel, overload, unplugged, etc) you're left with a pretty severe power quality problem on the other phase. I accidentally did this once and it was quite creepy - lights very dim and pulsing on and off, appliances turning themselves on and off, strange noises from various undervoltage beepers, yikes!
Read this and then ask yourself - Do you think this guy is the right guy to take advice on how to break the electrical code "safely." This is illegal, unsafe and will void your homeowner's insurance - and rightly so. Don't touch this guy's ideas with a 10 foot pole.
If youre gonna throw safety AND code out the window, then just grab a double breaker, put it in the panel with a small jumper wire from one side to the other. Turn it on and voila! Both sides get lit up with 120v!
What a joke: "I assume no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. Be sure to read and follow all safety instructions for any equipment seen or implied in this video, and use safe practices when working with potentially dangerous equipment." Be sure to use safe practices and follow all instructions? What a dangerous fool. Yeah, that sentence absolves you from all moral and legal responsibility for the injury and death that is inevitable as thousands try this stupid crap. Someone will inevitably die as a result of this video, and if you think this disclaimer protects you...
i got a 300wat invrter used itg for to weak on a lanmorer bater & soler back up now i got a farm barty now it sutdown win hok it up it a 12 v t bartty ? so wy is ths haping the biger bartty is cousing a sutdiown
11:36: I have one suggestion. Because of the phasing problem and beat frequency problem of running 2 separate inverters, why not just buy one 6000 watt inverter instead of 2 3000 watt inverters. Pump the output of the 6000 watt inverter into a 1:2 isolation transformer. The primary winding is 120 volts. the secondary winding is 240 volts with a center tap. Connect the center tap to ground and have the 2 ends of the transformer be the 2 120v halves of your house. Use a big SPDT knife switch to switch from grid power to battery power.
Is there anyway that I could have a transfer switch that can be controlled electrically, so I can use a separate controller to control the switching? I guess the easiest way to do this is to roll your own switch by using two interlocked dpst contactors or a single dpdt contactor, but I don't know if this meets code. edit: I think I figured this one out, It's called a "non-automatic" transfer switch; as opposed to an automatic or manual transfer switch. I can't quite find any specific wiring diagrams for any of them, but I assume it will let you roll your own switching controller.
Hi! I see your way of thinking helps in understanding most of the stuff you are experimentig on in terms of inverters. How about turning a grid-tie one into an offgrid inverter? Can it be done? Using just the power stage controlled by a small signal that comes ... say from a cheaper but a true sine wave inverter microcontroller. Grid-tie inverters sell much much cheaper on E-bay nowadays.. Waiting for your opinion about that. :)
Can't imagine rolling that huge heavy battery cart around. Wouldn't a $700 generator be an easier option with more power to use including having both legs wired.? Those batteries themselves must have cost a fortune not to mention keeping them maintained so they are ready to go. Generator can sit for years and come out ready to go. Interesting setup. Thanks for posting.
Generators require maintenance and usually don't work due to gummed up carbs or other issues after sitting for a while. I have a generator I start up a couple times per year to run through old fuel and keep it going. The carb still gums up. And I don't want a noisy generator running 24/7 that can't properly power much vs a good inverter.
- I run my generator dry and don’t store gas in the tank after sitting for eight months it fires right up on the first try. What do you mean a generator that can’t power much? 6000 W is what your standard generator power switch is essentially any house appliance couple of fridgerators lights TV everything else even a small air conditioning. How many watts can you inverter supply? Noise I got to give that one to you!
Geez, you are giving me the willies sticking your fingers in the panel. I'm sure its just the perspective of the camera, but still :-) Thanks for another great video. I look forward to the next two installments.
I had tried this before and fried a inverter, it turns out that many inverters can not handle a neutral ground earth bond and after a few hours of use it destroyed some of the capacitors inside the inverter , I was able to resolve this issue by placing a 1000 watt isolation transformer between the inverter and the feeder circuit. It has now been working for about 5 years. I did not know this and I have been a electrician for over 20 years.
If the batteries are floating, not connected to any potential relative to earth, you can use any inverter. (2 prong, not 3 to the inverter) The downside is that the battery voltage will be live AC relative to GND! Not terribly safe, but then this method I would consider only for emergencies or tinkering around.
I once connected two inverters to my backfed panel with blocking diodes installed on the hots that exceeded the breaker they were backfed into. I pulled 220, inverters were unaffected. I didn't go any further because I was trying to get 110 at higher wattage
IS there such a thing as a 'solar inverter' vs a 'regular inverter'? I have several modified and pure sine wave inverters I've collected over the years. I'm looking at installing a battery bank/solar panels onto my home and wonder if 1 of my pure sine wave inverters will be fine or if I need a special 'solar inverter'. I've heard that solar inverters shut off earlier to protect the battery voltage from dropping too far. The trouble is, when I search for a solar inverter, I can't find anything that is any different spec wise to my regular pure sine inverters. IE, they all shut down when the 12 volt battery reaches 10 volts.
There is no difference spec wise. Solar inverters are generally rated for continuous duty while 'regular inverters' are rated for intermittent duty. Lesser quality manufacturers will often state that their products are for solar duty or continuous duty even though they won't last, so in reality there isn't any difference. A good quality inverter will be fine for solar use even if it isn't marketed as a 'solar inverter'.
Your electrical panel is wired very ODD... i have two vertical buss bars.. the left buss bar carries 120V and the right buss bar carries 120V... each single breaker gets power from the side its attached to.. the 240V breaker gets power from both vertical legs.. i would NEVER use 2 separate 120V inverters to feed 240V to both buss bars.. both inverters would be out of phase causing issues.. You either use ONE 120V inverter and jump the buss bars thru a 240V breaker or a single 240V inverter using the 240V breaker to feed both buss bars..... AFTER AND ONLY AFTER YOU SHUT THE MAIN BREAKER OFF TO PREVENT BACKFEED TO THE STREET..
You Tube You're out of your mind! They do not make, in America, what you are describing. There is no such thing as a breaker box where left bank goes to left leg and right bank to right leg. THEY ALL CRISSCROSS BACK AND FORTH. Otherwise, as he stated in the video, the double breakers wouldn't be able to give you 220/240v. YOU are the unfortunate reason these videos probably shouldn't exist...
What if you got a 240V inverter and connected the active and neutral to the 2 actives on the fuse box and the ground to the ground/neutral on the fuse box? Wouldn't you be able to power both phases and the 240v circuits as a bonus? Or would everything just catch fire and explode
This has been a very helpful video, our rental home is two stories, however the breaker box had each circuit skip, one would be down stairs, next one down on upstairs, then down stairs, and so on, makes sense now when they build the home. They put one phase upstairs and the other phase downstairs, Im guessing to isolate all the wall plugs, it looked very confusing seeing all the labels, the circuits where not in order of the flow in the home, thanks knurlgnar, so how can one go about purchase a pure sin wave inverters, without a live n/ground? Also if i ever want to power my house once its vacant (its a rental dont live in it) i would only need 1, 120 volt back feed cable for the first floor on any plug correct? I dont need power upstairs, thanks again
It does not meet NEC code so in an incorporated area, technically, it is. And so are most appliances purchased from China on Amazon that don't properly meet NEC specs (though they usually claim to). The video covers the dangers and describes in a good amount of detail why this method should only be used for emergencies. Proper transfer switches are both extremely expensive to install in many jurisdictions and do not allow you to power your whole house in most cases. Some places allow interlock kits and some don't. Plainly speaking in practical terms this isn't very dangerous though. I'd say running with scissors is far more dangerous. And that's not even illegal.
I have an off grid cabin Im wiring with a simple circuit of outlets that can be powered by the generator. Id also like to be able to power with a "suicide cord"should the first outlet I plug into be a gfci there in protecting the rest of the line?
not that i would ever do it, but can you use 2 120v inverters to power up both sides of your panel if you shut off all the 240v breakers first? i am curious if not, why you cant.
Sheesh man, for ~$50, you can buy a proper outlet that does NOT need the suicide cord. use an RV 30amp 240v generator inlet box. It is a protected recessed male end that mates to the female end of your generator/inverter cable. That is at least safer, but the lack of an idiot proof way to ensure the house is disconnected from the Mains makes this potentially lethal for our friends, the utility linesmen. Backfeeding the grid is a big no-no! Just thought you might like a 'safe' alternative to the suicide cable :)
To do it 'properly' you need a transfer switch in most jurisdictions which goes on the utility side of the breaker panel. Some inspectors will allow interlock kits but most don't. Because of this most people end up running a breaker to a 2nd breaker panel that has a built in transfer switch to that gen inlet box you speak of and re-wiring select circuits from their primary panel to the secondary one. In all it's very expensive, messy, and poorly functional. The only thing you can get for $50 is a backfeeding hazard that is now permanently integrated into your house and looks legit, but isn't. That is much more dangerous than what I show here.
@@knurlgnar24 man, I think you're comparing lethal injection to hanging :) That being said, the comment was only to address any suggestion that ANYONE should make a suicide cable. That's just dangerous, not just "not up to code". A child is unlikely to get into the home electrical panel and die, but they very easily could think they were connecting up a simple extension cord to a wall outlet.... only to find the female end was at both end. On the one hand.. annoying - on the other hand, possibly lethal. You may not have that risk (children) around your home.... but many people do!
You are correct there would be a problem but if you had two separate neutrals one for each inverter you would avoid that situation. Now the problem would be corrected if at the panel everything was separate but we know some electricians are careless and somewhere in the house there could be separate neutrals joined together; in which case you would have to do a continuity test or you could put each phase on its own arc fault, breaker for a test.
Why isn't using two inverters as described at 11:37 acceptable? What difference does it make that they will probably be out of phase in varying degrees as long as you are not seeking 240V power and any 240 breakers are off? You say "you would expect to have no volts here", between the two hot legs ( I wouldn't jnow what to expect). What difference does it make if they are never connected and you are powering 120V circuits on two different, independent bus bars ?
As long as you never have any 240V breakers on AND both inverters have isolated conversion from the batteries (most inexpensive inverters do not) AND neither inverter has a live neutral (half voltage on hot half on neutral) then yes you could do this. I just use a larger single inverter and connect the HOT to both sides of the 240V bus. Then both have 120V and there is no danger even if I forget to turn off a 240V breaker.
I'm so glad you mentioned this hot neutral/ hot hot issue... I watched this series closely and wired up to connect my 3000 W pure sine inverter, and JUST before I did I checked both lines with a power pen, found out they were both hot! I'd never heard of this before. My little gas generator is the same way... two hot wires. So, I don't think there's any way I can connect these to my home wiring unless I take all the house wiring neutral lines off of ground? I'm bummed out, I was real excited to play with this. 😐
been watching you're videos and have a question about grid tie inverters would you know how to by pass the island block on say an inphase 250 I would like to use this in a off grid application to heat water by using a regular inverter the alarm keeps going off so I figured a grid tie converted would work
@@knurlgnar24 I am without grid power for the foreseeable future, so, I needed to do this anyways. The pump I use is very tiny, and over 100' from the inverter, and though I may have 100' of extension cord, the suicide cord got me half way there by using the house. Everything worked out fine. Still have some cleanup to do, but at least there is no further problems coming. Cashless and off grid, with very little power infrustructure can provide some very educational problems.
At the very end of your video you talked about using 2 inverters and one of the reasons not to was because of the synchronization issue. Yep, true. I took 2 cheapie low power inverters and stuck a probe from a volt meter into the "hots" of each inverter both running and got the same results! A swing between 0 and 240 volts! Crazy. I have heard of some special inverters that can be tied together with a special patch cord that will force them to sync up. Then each one would be like a L1 and L2 like the grid. Cool.
Loved this info tube show.
PROFESSIONALLY Put a PIG connection (220 female) on the garage with a transfer switch and box with enough
switches to run the 2 baths, living room, and 4 bedrooms lights & plugs. Plus the fridge - with my propane generator
for as long as the canned propane lasts (read 9000 watt generator w/ 20 horses - a gas hog for the PIG!).
Then I went looking for a double 220 female (suicide type - to no avail either - I have to make it myself if I get the guts) plug - so I could plug in - or figure out how to get the system to run with my four separate solar type generators. I have some 14 - 285 watt panels on the roof (Solar World) that the county electric company has me hostage via the "smart meter" for dummies.
Now with your videos and my playing around in "seniorhood" (read childhood redone) I'm trying to avoid electrifying myself like a Christmas tree with some 4 inverters (both types pue & modified), 7 AGM batteries, 10 separate solar panels and such fuses and switches to save my bacon before I cook it. I have learned to make all kinds of electrical connections. Thank GOD when I was younger I wired many garages for myself and family members. I love plugs and switches and LOTS of lights - especially the new LED 4-foots that switch out from Costco.
My question to you is if you got through all my baloney above - is name me three very good inverters that you would buy for long term heavy duty work in the 2000 to 3000 watt range - I would like ones that could run a fridge if possible.
Double sided - like YOURS!
I looked at all the invertors on the market for backup, and settled for a 9KW with wireless remote starting. Generator outputs 120V/240V that powers both sides of the breaker panel, bringing everything in the entire home to life. Costing less than $1k; there are no battery banks. Runs about 11 hours on one fueling. Invertors draw heavy DC current. 4 cans of gas = 4 days and nights of powering everything in your home. Great for ice storms. During a ice storm in Virginia several years ago on Christmas day, I completely powered up my mother's home. We had a regular Christmas dinner that holiday and all the relatives came over. Generator in the back yard I connected to her breaker panel powered all the lighting, the oil burner for heat, a fridge, freezer and her electric range. Every 11 hours I shut it down and poured in 4 gallons of fuel, and restarted it. Yes it was noisy, but well worth it. A comment someone made below about 48V is a good idea; the closer the DC voltage to the invertor is to 120V, the more efficient the invertor will be. If you had a invertor that could operate on 150VDC, you wouldn't need a transformer in the invertor. A 1000W invertor will pull approximately 100A from the battery bank when running at full load, not including invertor efficiency losses. Forget about starting most AC motors with it; many motors running on 120V can have inrush currents of 2x to 4x their running current rating which can trip a breaker in the invertor (if it has one.) Garage door openers also have this problem - note that you didn't see him lower the garage door during the video. Invertors are best a running lighting and very light electronic loads. But when the batteries die, they die! Trying to charge invertor batteries from a vehicle while the invertor load is running is a risky proposition - connecting your battery and alternator to such a heavy load could create a spike that could destroy the alternator. Now you'll be out about $500 and be sitting in the dark, with a vehicle that won't charge it's own battery and may not start.
What if you got a 240V inverter and connected the active and neutral to the 2 actives on the fuse box and the ground to the ground/neutral on the fuse box?
Wouldn't you be able to power both phases and the 240v circuits as a bonus?
Or would everything just catch fire?
This is not the place to get this advice. Most everyone here has no idea how to do this safely. Try a website like Stack Exchange or Do It Yourself. These guys will get you killed.
I devicesd a method of making a suicide cord safer by having a circuit that detects current and only makes connection between the cord ends when both ends are plugged in. As soon as a plug end is disconnected, the connection between the ends is broken and no current can flow.. this help prevent getting shocked by the exposed male ends.
Great video. Might be dangerous but i got a problem solved watching it. Thank you.
Great video! Apparently there are a lot of people trying to back feed through the panel, I only hope they watch this video before they try it. Weather it's inverter or generator. Thanks knurlgnar, you may have kept a lineman safe or someone from burning down the house!!
Thanks for your comment and you hit the nail on the head regarding the purpose of this video. Backfeeding isn't the safest method for powering a house but I know that many people use it, so hopefully illustrating some of the potential complications will keep people safe.
I understand the grounding theory and how you showed the connection to the BATT ground and the ground of the outlet. I have a Vector that I just checked for that and it seems as though the battery ground is not connected to the outlet ground so I shouldn't get voltage sent into my batteries. Could I still use the vector to feed my circuits in my home and still use the ground connection? In your other videos you made your connections without the ground. Also, whats the main difference between a batter backup (UPS) vs an inverter with batteries? m assuming it has something to do with the grounding and neutral. Normally I use a generator but im also looking to go with a battery system with solar charging.
Thanks for any info!!
The battery negative is often effectively referenced to the midpoint between the neutral and line on less expensive inverters. If neutral is grounded (as it is in a typical household electrical system) this results in the battery connections being driven to one half of AC voltage. This isn't a problem as far as the inverter is concerned but it could be a safety hazard.
Dude!!! You are the man! I've never seen a tutorial covering this topic simplified so well. Excellent video!!!
So, If you had use the 220 dryer connection you would have to trip the main,and all non used breakers?
I plan to buy a pure sign invert.....and some batteries, as i live on the gulf and bad weather. Only needing to run a couple fans( for the night till I see the drain on the batteries). Would you use a bigger gauge wire for the 220 to 110 suicide cable? Thanx
Hi, i can follow you guys all the way up to your 120, 120, 240, volt power boards, over here we are all 240v. My question is please, can a (240v) pure sine inverter run with its neutral and earth connected ? Our mains power boards have a big fat earth cable that goes to the neutral bar. So if i isolate the inward mains Active power only, can i connect my pure sine inverter to the neutral and active in my power board ? Would my inverter blow up? I learned that a modified sine inverter wont do this, I learned the hard way :-( so now im worried. Love your stuff, thanks from Australia :-)
So to do this we should only use pure sine wave and not modified?
Anyone attempting to duplicate the method shown deserves the Darwin award for stupidity. Hire an electrician, and install a transfer switch. If you attempt to sell a house with the wiring as such, you will need to remediate it anyway.
Fred Zlotnick here is how to do it properly. th-cam.com/video/mKh_AXsxovg/w-d-xo.html. Thanks
I have just been learning this i knew that i was energizing only one half of my panel, and your are explaining it very well thank you for this, cant wait till part 2!!!
BACK-FEEDING IS 100% SAFE AS LONG AS YOU SHUT OFF THE MAIN BREAKER TO THE PANEL AND DISCONNECT YOUR HOUSE FROM THE STREET POWER.. YES IT IS THAT FUCKING SIMPLE... YOU SHUT DOWN THE MAIN BREAKER AND NOW YOU CAN BACK FEED POWER USING ANY OF THE 240V BREAKERS IN THE HOUSE... OR ANY OF THE 120V OUTLETS IN THE HOUSE (which will only energize one buss bar in the panel, which means only half the house will have access to 120V) ...
I am no electrician and i guarantee you any electrician will back up my statement, the next thing is to monitor how much power you use because that 240V generator will prob only supply 30 amps so now you must prioritize what you use in the house and dont go flipping all the breakers on because now you will over load the generator and pop fuses and breakers, you backfeed thru the dryer OR stove, then you flip open the breakers to the rooms you NEED... not all of them.. PRIORITIZE YOUR NEEDS
EXACTLY. I am glad someone other than me agrees on this point. Watch my videos on this very subject...
Thank you very much, it makes me feel good to know that you are on my side and understand my point of view...
I just ignore these other IDIOTS on TH-cam that say back-feeding is dangerous and the suicide cord will kill you...
Lol, I have had a few of "those guys" commenting on my vids on this subject...you know the kind, know it alls with no content on their channels. They got blocked
In Aus we have 240 volts that makes hooking up in power outages easy. Of course as you stated early in the video it is vitally important to ISOLATE THE MAIN POWER SUPPLY INLET BEFORE CONNECTING ANY INVERTER. We also have 3 phase 415 volts for industrial use. cheers big ears.
Plus you make stuff very longer an complicated.
Just buy 2 phase or 3 phase inverter,depending on your location.
That supports on grid and off grid modes.
And let certified electrician to connect your inverter to mains. Everything else you can connect your self.
Nice to see the backfeed warning. a lot of folk even to this day omit that from inverter videos.
My way was to put a welding outlet in my garage and use that to backfeed into the house from my generator. Outlet is 50 amp, the generator is outside and no wiring or worrying about phases. Step one turn off main breaker, step two plug generator into outlet and step three start generator. I ran my house that way for 15 days after being hit with a tornado three years ago.
I love living in a 240v country! I have 3,6 Kw from a simple plug in my bedroom! In a 120 v country you have to pray that your house doesnt burn down when you connect a space heater. But if i touch the outlet the chances of me dying are higher.
Old wiring is a problem no matter where you live. In the USA we have 120V appliances but the fire risk is near zero in newer buildings built to code. If your wiring is older than the 1970's then yes I'd agree. An odd factoid: 120V is far superior to 240V for incandescent lighting which is why 100V ish was chosen for the system here. Today a 240V system would definitely be better but the system is fully in place at 120V and will likely never change. It works just fine and changing would be a complete mess.
Holey crud - Captain Risky - don't try this at home kids
Correct me if i'm wrong but if you had no intention of using ANY 240v appliances you could use 2 inverters correct? Just turn off the breakers? I feel like i'm missing something
yes you are, 2 inverters are a problem because they both have to be in sync with each other, so if one interter is set to 60mhz and another is set to 60hmz just one millisecond after the other there will not be a proper 240v and it will destroy your equipment! and they must be kept in sync the hole time.
fliping720 I do not plan to use ANY 240v appliances and like I said I will switch off the 240v breakers, so neither circuit should be able to see the other side right?
kf7tkj
If you use inverters that have a live neutral they will be referenced together at the batteries and you'll likely end up with damaged inverters. Most inexpensive modified sine inverters (including the Xantrex shown in this video) are this type and won't work. If the inverters are not live neutral AND have isolated inputs/outputs (most pure sine inverters are in this category) then it would technically work to use two inverters as you describe, however any tiny mistake and one could blow up expensive inverter equipment. It is just too easy to accidentally, with some unknown/unforseen mechanism, get live power applied to the output of an inverter that way in my opinion.
*****
That is correct.
Newbies be aware: even when the main power is 'off' the two 120vac service leads are always on and are deadly. Do not open or work on your own box after simply watching this video.
And the deal about backfeeding..linemen always assume power could be in the line..and wear full safety gear anyway... silly laymen. ..by the way any short on the powerline side would trip the breaker on the generator anyway. ....
And the load of your neighbors loads would also overload your inverter and or generator real quick
Turn the main breaker off, back feed to one 110v. 20 amp and done , Not a rocket science.
More to it than that. That was the point of the video.
I'm from Germany and your fuse box scares me oO
So many exposed blank wires :O.
At my home the ground wires are seperately connected to every fuse. If more than 30mA float threw the ground connection the fuse will cut off the power.
(required by the law)
Mixermachine yet we don't encounter issues, but laws weren't all made for safety but actually to line the pockets of buddies of said law makers
i have to subscribe, this is like candy to my brain..............yea im a nerd too. lol
puedes usar un inberter
400 v. Y un cargador de batería y una bateria
Watch, but do not copy. This is illegal, dangerous and will void your homeowner's insurance. You may get your electrical meter pulled too - no electricity to your house anymore.
J S and a million others things are illegal... we are not allowed to do anything that doesn't involve paying the piper, so most of us don't give a shit about petty crap like keeping your family warm in an emergency like aftermath of a hurricane or other type problems we encounter. Yes, you need to know what your doing and to make sure it is done in a way that wont hurt yourself or others but that is where a lot of us draw the line, hence this informative video you found yourself watching.
Keep your family warm by plugging whatever you need directly into your generator, that works just fine. You think that you "know what you're doing" and that you've thought of everything that the NEC thought of and that you couldn't possibly hurt anyone, until something happens that you didn't think of. Believe me, you haven't thought of everything.
there will never be a 2 phase going to a home. you have a transformer with you get your power from and its single phase. its a center tap Transformer. if you check it with and scope you will see they are single phase.....but still a good video either way.
Split phase has two phases each 180 degrees out of phase. It is normally created by a transformer with a center tap as you describe and is commonly referred to as single phase since a 180 degree phase shift can be created with a passive device off of single phase power. Electrically speaking there are two distinct phases in split phase and I found that nomenclature more useful for the purposes of this video.
3 phase has three phases 120 degrees out of phase. Split phase has 2 phases 180 degrees out of phase. It's a matter of semantecs.
Thank you for that correction. I'm sure he understands what is going on but he used the wrong term.
flash001USA yea I new what he was talking about. but there are a lot of People out there that wouldn't know he has good videos.
The suicide method using a dryer plug ....ALWAYS...Turn your main on the breaker box off. Then the linemen don't get fried...but their always supposed to check the line for current PRIOR to working on it...It works both ways....
So the lineman checks the line, it's dead, and starts working. He's still working when you get up from your beer cause the lights are off and stumble into the basement and plug this BS setup in, then remember that you were supposed to shut the main, no problem, you run over and shut it off. The lineman is already dead.
Or you shut the main off but your kid uses the microwave and trips the breaker. He goes downstairs and turns on both the kitchen breaker and the main - both were off. Another dead lineman.
Of you thought you were smart enough to ALWAYS isolate the main, and so did 50 other people in your neighborhood, but one did it wrong - another dead lineman.
You are on a public website preaching to the general public to do this. What do you think the odds are that EVERY ONE will do this "safely." Would you bet your life on it? Didn't think so. Don't bet the lineman either, jerk.
Hey great tutorials very helpful, I want to do solar and wind to feed a battery bank in an RV, do I need 2 charge controllers? how do I approach this?
Also I am not going to grid tie, I will run TV and PC (possibly some other small draw items) off of the battery bank and let the propane do the rest. hoping for around 500-700 watts total, which is kindof overkill but I want to eventually feel comfortable powering a whole house. The primary motivation for both wind and solar is the fact that I live in washington state and particularly in the winter time, we have very little in the way of sunlight.
+Jeromy Stewart I believe solar and wind have different charge characteristics so likely you would need a solar and wind controller. As long as the battery settings in the controllers are the same, you shouldn't have a problem.
+jayw900 Thank you
Sure, i hope it helps. Not connecting makes it a lot easier to set up.
In the UK everything in the house is 240v.
WOW
@@oprahwinfrey878 network and you brought them again and they where defective
Great video. I will do something similar, although I plan to build a completely distributed off grid system integrated with both pv and passive solar. Each room will have it's own system. This means if one of my kids likes his room at 68 degrees in the summer, he will be able to control it specifically for his room. Each inverter, battery(s), and solar photovoltaic will be dedicated to its own section of the house.
by
+Joash Church are you gonna do it from the same battery bank or have several banks?
I would like to try to have separate banks for each room, but have some sort of bypass switching so that each room could be standalone, or connected to a main.
Take videos and share
whats your background you seem smart.
keep it simple, I would use extension cords, thanks for vid.
I hope that battery box has a vent to let the hydrogen safely escape.
+Star Gazer Those are AGM batteries, not flooded, vents are of no importance.
Is your power inverter split-phase or single phase?
You said there are 2 methods. I am going with method #3. During my remodel, my house is getting a separate electrical system. Each room has a "green" outlet that goes to the inverter. Then the microwave, fridge and freezer has a green outlet beside the public power system. This way, I have a backup. It is hot 24/7 and ready anytime. No interfering with the standard electrical power..... Also, know your loads. I am still gathering data. Refrigerator running 330w 1.7kw a day, Freezer 345w running 1.8kw a day, Propane furnace 290w running 1.6 kw a day, microwave 880w running 1.1 kw per week, Oxygen machine 680w running 6.8kw a day...... It all adds up fast. Know what you really need.
The microwave will be a HOG. You may need a separate inverter just for that appliance.The refers have a start up wattage requirement. You plan on running a LOT of watts,there.
So, as I mentioned, the house has a separate electrical system. That is the third way... 2:35 #1 use extension cords, #2 2:45 transfer switch. Thus, my way of having a separate electrical system, separate from the public power system is the third way..... The power consumption is a separate issue I was just reminding people about..... As for power, I have found used pure sine wave inverters. (3- from 1000w to 2500w) Each can be to a line for different uses.... Use one, use all, what ever you like. (For those people planning to jump me for that comment, don't say something stupid like you can not put multiple inverters together.... if you don't know how to separate different runs, skip to easier things)
You will be fine!
Sure you can run a few inverters from the same or different battery sources!
Great thinking!! Applause is due.
Dave in Seattle.
2 is 1 and 1 is none.... I would rather have 2 or 3 smaller inverters running to outlets in separate rooms, than have 1 for the entire house. 1, I can turn off ones I don't need. 2, if one burns out, I still have something to work with.... besides, the power used in the house, will be the same load on the battery bank (minus effeciency, give or take). As long as the battery bank is big enough for one system, it is big enough for the other, if power consumption is the same.
Just label each out put for the inverters. Simple. Good thinking!Some inverters have a remote on-off switch that is wireless. Very cool.
Hookin a pure sine wave inverter to your house wiring is a bad idea. Basically turns your house wiring into a high frequency output antenna. It’s not really a pure sine wave. It’s a modulation device that simulates a sine wave. If it doesn’t drive you crazy, it will kill you!,,
I have a mobile home, and I am adding on to it. I am getting rid of the breaker panel, as I need more breakers. My question is I am going all solar,wind, and generator for back-up. I am using a 3000 watt power inverter, and a 100amp breaker panel, 20space. I am trying to figure out how I would wire this inverter to the100amp breaker panel. I am doing completely away with the power company, and I will probably add on a meter to sell back power to the power company later down the road. I use a swamp cooler, and wood stove for heating, a hot tub Jacuzzi,and lights frig,freezer. So I think this 3000 amp inverter will work,just need help wiring it to Homeline HOMVP5 100amp/20space. I have 2-6' ground rods for ground, and there is no power here now, as I am using a generator, and get tired of the noise.
That sounds like a very interesting project! Most of your questions are building code related and I am not legally qualified to answer those in detail, but if you plan to make this permanent and also connect to the utility then you'll need an interlock kit or a transfer switch of some sort.
...get a single phased 240v 50hz system...with 240v loads...america is losing export becouse of the 110v load appliances
I prefer a distributed system - Individual batteries, and smaller inverters in each room with automatic switching on power out conditions. Easy to implement with relays, and less efficiency losses. Larger inverter for kitchen. When one battery goes flat, oh well - still have light in the living room.
This is a fatal accident waiting to happen.
NEVER do this!
Get a transfer switch.
Thank you for saying that! This video should be taken down ASAP.
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*** I am NOT an electrician. ***
*** Mine is NOT a qualified opinion ***
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I believe this can be done safely with an additional breaker just for backfeed, and a lockout mechanism ($40-50) to make it impossible to have both the backfeed breaker and the main breaker on at the same time.
I believe one can then hook a shore power jack to the backfeed breaker.
I believe e could substitute backfeeding each side of the split phase by attaching an extension cord to each side of the split phase output of the correct type of inverter(s) to an outlet wired into the home system.
Again, I believe this can be done with a mechanical interlock between the main breaker and a dedicated, backfeed, breaker.
That appears to be a low frequency inverter, which cost some money that size. Pretty surprised he didn't get one with a split phase output, or two, identical single phase inverters which can be electronically linked to provide split phase (like @DAVIDPOZ' setup)
@@lloydrmc yes, there are interlocked circuit breaker devices just for this purpose. I really hate to see this approach though, for one thing if you use too small a wire size it will heat up and can cause a fire. Or if its run nestled against the other wires in the panel and manages to short to them the interlock is useless. Once you power (backfeed) the utility line the whole high voltage line outside goes back up to its rated voltage , and that's a killer for anyone working on it. It may last for only a short time but that's enough to kill someone by either electrocution or by falling out of the bucket as their body reacts to the really powerful shock. A high voltage shock will kill a person almost instantly, and that little generator has enough oomph to do it.
In ANY CASE - its much safer to use a manual or automatic transfer switch that's designed to safely connect your generator to your house. What gets me is that they save a couple hundred bucks but if something happens, will they look at the whole mess and think "gee for just a small amount of money i could have avoided all this"? There are places in life to save money - this ain't one of them. BTW I am a master electrician. TH-cam should really take this down.
In case you dont get to it, I want to connect my 2- separate 120v. inverters to my house with 2- large Power Stations, one connected to the A Leg and the other to the B Leg. Do the Neutrals have to be separated, since they are not phased to produce 240v from 2- separate Inverters
As a lineman who has seen someone badly badly burned during an outage..DO NOT try what's in this video without electrical knowledge.
A neutral is NOT a ground, it carries current. Don't confuse the two.
maybe you need to relisten to what he said. Common and ground are tied together. That is the way United States residential is.
In the US, the neutral is a groundED conductor. The bare wire is a groundING conductor. They are connected together and to earth at the service entrance, and only there. Neutral is normally pretty close to ground potential, other than a small voltage rise due to the current in the wire. Neutral isnt a hot wire here. That isn't true in some other countries.
The Neutral CONNECTS to Ground at the outside main panel... The Neutral does NOT carry current...
If the Neutral carries current then every CATV and Telephone repair man would be DEAD when they grounded out their facilities to electrical ground...
Wrong. The neutral does carry current. Stop before you hurt someone.
J S:
Okay so why is it that when i TOUCH the Neutral wire i don't get zapped..?? If this were true that the N carries current then every metal piece in the house that is GROUNDED would be HOT and energized...
my power is out now. I used an extension cord ran it from my router and modem to generator. Internet while power is out!!
This should be named the death trap and totally illegal it could kill in many ways including innocent line workers.
This is why there is a main breaker to be shut off to prevent back feed into the street... once you shut off that main breaker AS HE SAID IN THE VIDEO WHICH YOU CLEARLY DID NOT HEAR OR UNDERSTAND..... once that main breaker is OFF, your pretty lineman are safe
Not good enough. Not even close. Why don't I wire each of your hands to my electric oven and tell you, "Don't worry, every time I use the oven, I'll remember to temporarily disconnect you!" Oh, and 100 other random idiots are also going to do the same thing. All wired through your heart. What's wrong with that?! Stupid government, always telling my sassy you-know-what what to do!
You Tube THIS IS JUST ASKING FOR TROUBLE
Hi, this is Gabriel from México.i'd like to ask you if you have test the 1000w SW Xantrex inverter, 'cause i want to buy one for my solar project . is it real pure sine wave or fake? Thanx
It is a true sine wave inverter. I cannot comment on it in detail, however, because I haven't used one personally.
"It's not that safe, but can work." WTF?
Back feeding is just dangerous, period. You shouldn't do it. Wire your house up properly for a generator or inverter feed.
For safety sake, when back feeding 1. turn main OFF, 2. turn all 220 breakers OFF.
There is no safe backfeeding. For safety sake 1) STOP. Don't backfeed.
Why post a video to show people how to die
It's also a video on how to kill. I guess he's confident that thousands of random TH-cam people doing this after watching a TH-cam video won't crap the bed ever and kill someone. Or he just doesn't care.
Really? ARE YOU SERIOUS!!! I am a licensed electrician and do everything from basic home electric up to and including 480VAC 3Ph services and generators with some customer owned high tension service work at 12.8KV. I can't even begin to tell you of the dangers you are exposing people to with this video. I will try though. There is not a municipality in any civilized country that allows this to be done. The service provider will pull your meter and require that you hire a licensed electrician to repair and inspect the service should they find this done. Should you forget and/or make a mistake and back feed the line as this clown advises the line crew could be exposed to not just the 120/240v that the inverter or generator is pumping into the line but the step up voltage which in most cases is 4,800 or 12,800 Volts. A man or men could die because of what this guy is telling you to do. Do not follow this video, this is just about the most stupid thing I have seen on TH-cam in some time.
One more thing Using a pair of inverters like this guys recommends will not work properly and could burn up your neutral wires in your home in certain wired schemes should you follow this garbage advice. I will not detail the reasons as I am done here.
Contact a licensed electrician, there are back feed kits for some panels that have an interlock system that requires a break before make to properly back feed a service. There are also transfer switches, both manual and automatic, that can be installed. Don't be stupid, don't be this guy.
When it comes to power there is 2 ways of doing things. The cheap way and the right way.
enator71 great idea and excellent advice
I mean been doing it for years never had any problems
Great Video! I cant wait to get to your other videos. You now have a new Subscriber, thanks for the info!
Sir, I would really appreciate it if the sound quality of your video was a lot better.
Thanks for ripping of Polands flag
What about installing a separate small box we're both 110 volts come together ground that box separately and neutral even though they're the same then just jump over to the fuse box Run 2 a single 220 which will power both sides of the box run your ground and neutral along with it to your normal ground and neutral stepping up from 110 to 220 before you hit the Box on a inverter especially cheaper ones there is no ground the ground and neutral circle on the bottom are both one in the same that is why the inverters blow up you hook a ground to a positive. So you take the two one tens and that neutral and ground wire off of the inverter run it to the first box combine the two top post that are positive in the circle you install a neutral and ground wire from that little box off of one wire and then install a regular wire to the two wires coming in to the box that are hot and jump the ground in neutral into the box into a single 220 breaker all of your problems are solved safe cheap and effective
I’m planning to do the same thing my friend , Battery-BackUp - with a DIY Self-sufficient Generator - I was planning on hard writing it into the breaker box on a 100 Amp Double Pole Breaker or I have a 220v plug out-let which is never used anymore I got rid of my compressor it was a Craftsman 6 Hp. 33 Gallon tank my election wired for me as you just explained he wired it off each side of the breaker box given me 220v my 5KVA Pure sine wave inverter is single phase 220v-249v I was debating on removing the plug outlet and hard-wiring it straight into the line which will back-feed both sides of my Breaker-box and the only time using it is in a power- Failure ! On my Box the way they wired it is each leg not like toured into the top but the top 2 breakers are the power wires from the street shut the top 2 breakers off you kill all the electrical from my house ! That’s for the video I will watch what you’ve done thanks ! Now back to you’re work ! Thanks
I made a 240V dryer plug to dual 120V outlet 20A plug box that I use for this purpose. Sounds like you have a good setup with your 220V plug that way.
Very timely videos for me. I am in the middle of my 750w solar install. I have the Samlex 1,500 Watt pure sine wave inverter with that hard wire connector. I am interested to see how you tie into both legs. I would assume you need to flip off all double pole breakers first.Great info videos....Thanks
You are very much correct in switching off all dual pole breakers. The Samlex 1500W is a good choice for this! Parts 2 and 3 will be posted soon.
Yes you would want to turn off all of your 240 volt appliances by physically flipping the breakers associated with them especially for something like an expansive heat pump.
Our family did this during hurricane sandy...not even a suicide cable, we literally just twisted the ends. However we only connected one circuit (the boiler) for heat. We have a gas boiler, so it doesn't require much power.
If you live in the U.S. You do not have two phase service ( two lines 90 degrees out of parallel at 60v each ). You have single phase ( 180 degrees out of parallel at 120v each ). Even if you did have two phase with your current electrical panel your 240v circuits would only be running on 120v and your 120v circuits would be running on 60v. Smart guy improper terminology.
More towards split phase
Have you heard of using a Toyota Pruis as a battery bank to power your house? if so how would/could it be done? I was reading a ham radio article that talked about it. "Rethinking Electrical power for the Ham" QST August 2012. For that matter is it possible to use any of the new plug in cars as a battery bank by just shutting off the main breaker to draw from the battery bank of the car? Let me know what you think?
a prius battery wouldnt be able to do it for long as the battery bank is really tiny
if you had a step down converter you might be able to hack a tesla model S to backfeed into your house
Hello how are you doing i have 3000 watts pure sine wave 48V DC 110V-48V 60Hz Cnswipower what gade wire to used i have used 4 12 volt battery to 48V deep cycle 230A
What length will the cables be? 4AWG may be acceptable but 2AWG would be safer. BTW I have tested that exact inverter and it's a well performing unit.
well today i was just doing little testing 1500 watts inverter 120V 60Hz 12A,digsaw 120V 60Hz 7A and nexr digsaw 120V 60Hz 4A i run three things at same times and it work not Milwaukee power station they have 🙂🙂🙂🙂 am using it for work will it run TaleSaw 15A 120V 60Hz
Tablesaw 120V 60Hz 15A 3650 R.P.M will it run it am asking not much at R.P..M 3650 R.P..M
@@andyjack2368 Quality table saws are usually pretty brutal loads for inverters as they require far more than nameplate rating to actually perform adequately. Under load they can easily draw >30A or 4kw for short periods of time. The 3kw CNSWIPOWER I tested would work well, but I'd expect a 1500W inverter to be inadequate.
They do make dual single phase 240 volt from 12 horse power gas powered generator, as no 240 volt power inverter, 'why?' The cost, or needed 2 circuit batteries banks plus the special circuit built in inverter that do 180 degree phase of 60 hertz.
+Stan McBeth (STANTHEMAN770) They absolutely make inverters running form single bank with a split phase 240v output. Check out the Schneider Electric XW or Connext SW systems. 2500W up to (?)10,000W
"Hello. I live in a building of 16 flats. Every house has been given one bulb point for generator use. However, it does not function when there is normal power. Can they connect only one bulb point to the generator without going through the main power line?"
I thought that L1 and L2 supplying the breaker panel are single phase. It's 240v with a center tap of a winding in the transformer that results in 120v on each side. The term "phasing" would apply to the synchronizing of the 2 inverters in the 60 cycles. Three phase power would be three 240v - 60 cycles at 120 degrees apart.
Dumb question but would it be ok to use two inverters into two different outlets if you first disconnected the main and then switched off all 30 amp 240 double pull breakers so that they are not connecting your two out of phase 120s? Obviously it wouldn’t be appropriate or even possible to run appliances that large off an inverter plus as you stated they would out of phase.
If running off of separate battery banks it should be possible, but I wouldn't recommend it.
Hey Knurl, question for you. I need to connect my generator outside to a transfer switch next to my main panel but I have no way to run a cable from one to the other. Is it ok to swap out a wall outlet in my patio with an inlet and connect the generator to it, then disconnect that old old wall outlet's cable from its corresponding breaker and connect that cable to the transfer switch? Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
just scares me that you're pointing at live wires
Pointing and touching are 2 different things... UNDERSTAND THAT
You are right to be scared - this is stupid as stupid gets.
Electricity can still arch
Some inverters like the ones built into the Honda generators are protected against backfeed (that's how the parallel kit works) and can be used to power one side with another backfeed-protected inverter or generator powering the other side. The A/C isn't going to even notice unless you try to turn it on, but you can just switch off all the 240V breakers to further guard against it. Resistive loads won't be damaged, but would probably operate erratically or not at all.
It is important to turn off ALL 240V breakers, even the resistive ones. If one of the two power sources goes out (out of fuel, overload, unplugged, etc) you're left with a pretty severe power quality problem on the other phase. I accidentally did this once and it was quite creepy - lights very dim and pulsing on and off, appliances turning themselves on and off, strange noises from various undervoltage beepers, yikes!
Read this and then ask yourself - Do you think this guy is the right guy to take advice on how to break the electrical code "safely." This is illegal, unsafe and will void your homeowner's insurance - and rightly so. Don't touch this guy's ideas with a 10 foot pole.
The moment you said a suicide cord, I stopped watching because this as crazy as it gets. I can't believe anybody would follow your path........
It's an exaggeration ad absurdum. The actual danger is extremely low - but it does appear dangerous which I find to be quite comical.
If youre gonna throw safety AND code out the window, then just grab a double breaker, put it in the panel with a small jumper wire from one side to the other. Turn it on and voila! Both sides get lit up with 120v!
What a joke:
"I assume no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. Be sure to read and follow all safety instructions for any equipment seen or implied in this video, and use safe practices when working with potentially dangerous equipment." Be sure to use safe practices and follow all instructions? What a dangerous fool. Yeah, that sentence absolves you from all moral and legal responsibility for the injury and death that is inevitable as thousands try this stupid crap. Someone will inevitably die as a result of this video, and if you think this disclaimer protects you...
i got a 300wat invrter used itg for to weak on a lanmorer bater & soler back up now i got a farm barty now it sutdown win hok it up it a 12 v t bartty ? so wy is ths haping the biger bartty is cousing a sutdiown
11:36: I have one suggestion. Because of the phasing problem and beat frequency problem of running 2 separate inverters, why not just buy one 6000 watt inverter instead of 2 3000 watt inverters. Pump the output of the 6000 watt inverter into a 1:2 isolation transformer. The primary winding is 120 volts. the secondary winding is 240 volts with a center tap. Connect the center tap to ground and have the 2 ends of the transformer be the 2 120v halves of your house. Use a big SPDT knife switch to switch from grid power to battery power.
Is there anyway that I could have a transfer switch that can be controlled electrically, so I can use a separate controller to control the switching? I guess the easiest way to do this is to roll your own switch by using two interlocked dpst contactors or a single dpdt contactor, but I don't know if this meets code.
edit: I think I figured this one out, It's called a "non-automatic" transfer switch; as opposed to an automatic or manual transfer switch. I can't quite find any specific wiring diagrams for any of them, but I assume it will let you roll your own switching controller.
There not 2 phases. It's single phase 2 legs of 120 volts each
Ya there's a center tapped transformer but you for all intensive purposes it does not really matter
Hi! I see your way of thinking helps in understanding most of the stuff you are experimentig on in terms of inverters. How about turning a grid-tie one into an offgrid inverter? Can it be done? Using just the power stage controlled by a small signal that comes ... say from a cheaper but a true sine wave inverter microcontroller. Grid-tie inverters sell much much cheaper on E-bay nowadays.. Waiting for your opinion about that. :)
Can't imagine rolling that huge heavy battery cart around. Wouldn't a $700 generator be an easier option with more power to use including having both legs wired.? Those batteries themselves must have cost a fortune not to mention keeping them maintained so they are ready to go. Generator can sit for years and come out ready to go. Interesting setup. Thanks for posting.
Generators require maintenance and usually don't work due to gummed up carbs or other issues after sitting for a while. I have a generator I start up a couple times per year to run through old fuel and keep it going. The carb still gums up. And I don't want a noisy generator running 24/7 that can't properly power much vs a good inverter.
- I run my generator dry and don’t store gas in the tank after sitting for eight months it fires right up on the first try. What do you mean a generator that can’t power much? 6000 W is what your standard generator power switch is essentially any house appliance couple of fridgerators lights TV everything else even a small air conditioning. How many watts can you inverter supply? Noise I got to give that one to you!
Geez, you are giving me the willies sticking your fingers in the panel. I'm sure its just the perspective of the camera, but still :-)
Thanks for another great video. I look forward to the next two installments.
I had tried this before and fried a inverter, it turns out that many inverters can not handle a neutral ground earth bond and after a few hours
of use it destroyed some of the capacitors inside the inverter , I was able to resolve this issue by placing a 1000 watt isolation transformer
between the inverter and the feeder circuit. It has now been working for about 5 years. I did not know this and I have been a electrician
for over 20 years.
If the batteries are floating, not connected to any potential relative to earth, you can use any inverter. (2 prong, not 3 to the inverter) The downside is that the battery voltage will be live AC relative to GND! Not terribly safe, but then this method I would consider only for emergencies or tinkering around.
So is this AIMS Power 5000 Watt 12VDC Power Inverter good to use in homes?
I once connected two inverters to my backfed panel with blocking diodes installed on the hots that exceeded the breaker they were backfed into. I pulled 220, inverters were unaffected. I didn't go any further because I was trying to get 110 at higher wattage
IS there such a thing as a 'solar inverter' vs a 'regular inverter'? I have several modified and pure sine wave inverters I've collected over the years. I'm looking at installing a battery bank/solar panels onto my home and wonder if 1 of my pure sine wave inverters will be fine or if I need a special 'solar inverter'. I've heard that solar inverters shut off earlier to protect the battery voltage from dropping too far. The trouble is, when I search for a solar inverter, I can't find anything that is any different spec wise to my regular pure sine inverters. IE, they all shut down when the 12 volt battery reaches 10 volts.
There is no difference spec wise. Solar inverters are generally rated for continuous duty while 'regular inverters' are rated for intermittent duty. Lesser quality manufacturers will often state that their products are for solar duty or continuous duty even though they won't last, so in reality there isn't any difference. A good quality inverter will be fine for solar use even if it isn't marketed as a 'solar inverter'.
Thank you for the reply. :)
SpockMcoy Issmart
Your electrical panel is wired very ODD... i have two vertical buss bars.. the left buss bar carries 120V and the right buss bar carries 120V... each single breaker gets power from the side its attached to.. the 240V breaker gets power from both vertical legs..
i would NEVER use 2 separate 120V inverters to feed 240V to both buss bars.. both inverters would be out of phase causing issues..
You either use ONE 120V inverter and jump the buss bars thru a 240V breaker or a single 240V inverter using the 240V breaker to feed both buss bars.....
AFTER AND ONLY AFTER YOU SHUT THE MAIN BREAKER OFF TO PREVENT BACKFEED TO THE STREET..
You Tube You're out of your mind! They do not make, in America, what you are describing. There is no such thing as a breaker box where left bank goes to left leg and right bank to right leg. THEY ALL CRISSCROSS BACK AND FORTH. Otherwise, as he stated in the video, the double breakers wouldn't be able to give you 220/240v. YOU are the unfortunate reason these videos probably shouldn't exist...
Those are not phases. Those are legs. Your house is powered by one phase. There is no phase 2.
What if you got a 240V inverter and connected the active and neutral to the 2 actives on the fuse box and the ground to the ground/neutral on the fuse box?
Wouldn't you be able to power both phases and the 240v circuits as a bonus?
Or would everything just catch fire and explode
would not beleive this guy on a bet
This has been a very helpful video, our rental home is two stories, however the breaker box had each circuit skip, one would be down stairs, next one down on upstairs, then down stairs, and so on, makes sense now when they build the home. They put one phase upstairs and the other phase downstairs, Im guessing to isolate all the wall plugs, it looked very confusing seeing all the labels, the circuits where not in order of the flow in the home, thanks knurlgnar, so how can one go about purchase a pure sin wave inverters, without a live n/ground? Also if i ever want to power my house once its vacant (its a rental dont live in it) i would only need 1, 120 volt back feed cable for the first floor on any plug correct? I dont need power upstairs, thanks again
That solved the problem this man was having check it out and you'll get what I'm saying
Uuuuuuuuuuh, isn't that type of cable technically illegal? Not to mention extremely dangerous.
It does not meet NEC code so in an incorporated area, technically, it is. And so are most appliances purchased from China on Amazon that don't properly meet NEC specs (though they usually claim to). The video covers the dangers and describes in a good amount of detail why this method should only be used for emergencies. Proper transfer switches are both extremely expensive to install in many jurisdictions and do not allow you to power your whole house in most cases. Some places allow interlock kits and some don't. Plainly speaking in practical terms this isn't very dangerous though. I'd say running with scissors is far more dangerous. And that's not even illegal.
I'm sorry to tell you this but I ground doesn't go with neutral
I have an off grid cabin Im wiring with a simple circuit of outlets that can be powered by the generator. Id also like to be able to power with a "suicide cord"should the first outlet I plug into be a gfci there in protecting the rest of the line?
not that i would ever do it, but can you use 2 120v inverters to power up both sides of your panel if you shut off all the 240v breakers first? i am curious if not, why you cant.
Sheesh man, for ~$50, you can buy a proper outlet that does NOT need the suicide cord.
use an RV 30amp 240v generator inlet box. It is a protected recessed male end that mates to the female end of your generator/inverter cable. That is at least safer, but the lack of an idiot proof way to ensure the house is disconnected from the Mains makes this potentially lethal for our friends, the utility linesmen. Backfeeding the grid is a big no-no! Just thought you might like a 'safe' alternative to the suicide cable :)
To do it 'properly' you need a transfer switch in most jurisdictions which goes on the utility side of the breaker panel. Some inspectors will allow interlock kits but most don't. Because of this most people end up running a breaker to a 2nd breaker panel that has a built in transfer switch to that gen inlet box you speak of and re-wiring select circuits from their primary panel to the secondary one. In all it's very expensive, messy, and poorly functional. The only thing you can get for $50 is a backfeeding hazard that is now permanently integrated into your house and looks legit, but isn't. That is much more dangerous than what I show here.
@@knurlgnar24 man, I think you're comparing lethal injection to hanging :)
That being said, the comment was only to address any suggestion that ANYONE should make a suicide cable. That's just dangerous, not just "not up to code". A child is unlikely to get into the home electrical panel and die, but they very easily could think they were connecting up a simple extension cord to a wall outlet.... only to find the female end was at both end. On the one hand.. annoying - on the other hand, possibly lethal. You may not have that risk (children) around your home.... but many people do!
You are correct there would be a problem but if you had two separate neutrals one for each inverter you would avoid that situation. Now the problem would be corrected if at the panel everything was separate but we know some electricians are careless and somewhere in the house there could be separate neutrals joined together; in which case you would have to do a continuity test or you could put each phase on its own arc fault, breaker for a test.
Why isn't using two inverters as described at 11:37 acceptable? What difference does it make that they will probably be out of phase in varying degrees as long as you are not seeking 240V power and any 240 breakers are off? You say "you would expect to have no volts here", between the two hot legs ( I wouldn't jnow what to expect). What difference does it make if they are never connected and you are powering 120V circuits on two different, independent bus bars ?
As long as you never have any 240V breakers on AND both inverters have isolated conversion from the batteries (most inexpensive inverters do not) AND neither inverter has a live neutral (half voltage on hot half on neutral) then yes you could do this. I just use a larger single inverter and connect the HOT to both sides of the 240V bus. Then both have 120V and there is no danger even if I forget to turn off a 240V breaker.
I'm so glad you mentioned this hot neutral/ hot hot issue...
I watched this series closely and wired up to connect my 3000 W pure sine inverter, and JUST before I did I checked both lines with a power pen, found out they were both hot! I'd never heard of this before. My little gas generator is the same way... two hot wires. So, I don't think there's any way I can connect these to my home wiring unless I take all the house wiring neutral lines off of ground?
I'm bummed out, I was real excited to play with this. 😐
3:24 worlds most worst and ugliest power distribution wiring ever
been watching you're videos and have a question about grid tie inverters would you know how to by pass the island block on say an inphase 250 I would like to use this in a off grid application to heat water by using a regular inverter the alarm keeps going off so I figured a grid tie converted would work
I'll be great if you could test the Xantrex and how is inside, so we can see the internal circuits!
I did it quickly and efficiently with instructions from Avasva website.
Thanks much, basement is flooding, and thought this would work... Thanks for going through all the details! May not be swimming by morning!
If you're in that situation I'd personally run an extension cord directly to your pump. That's just what I'd do though.
@@knurlgnar24 I am without grid power for the foreseeable future, so, I needed to do this anyways. The pump I use is very tiny, and over 100' from the inverter, and though I may have 100' of extension cord, the suicide cord got me half way there by using the house. Everything worked out fine. Still have some cleanup to do, but at least there is no further problems coming. Cashless and off grid, with very little power infrustructure can provide some very educational problems.