Nice piece of kit but 15 Amp is too low most of our inverters are rated at min 22 amp maybe they can supply a shunt to increase the I Max test. Also note, both V-max and V min are very important to the performance of the Inverter.
Great video! Food for thought - BS7671 recommends Riso testing at higher than 500V if your system voltage is higher, which is normally the case in a commercial scale install. The latest version (2018) of BS EN 62446 goes further to recommend Riso test voltage is higher than 1.25x string Voc under STC. This results in a recommended test voltage of 1000V or even 1500V for any commercial-scale installation with the same 1 megaohm pass criteria.
@@scwfan08Agreed but how much higher than the open circuit voltage should it be? That's the question. Where is the voltage at 1.25x Voc going to come from in an installed operational PV system? We are not talking cabling which is being fed from the national grid, we are talking DC where the maximum voltage is set by the design of the panels.
Interestingly the IET's code of practice lists much lower minimum isolation values for arrays as opposed to cables - I *think* they might be asking you to test the cables at 500V with a nimimum of 1MΩ. When you look at table 5.3 on page 65 the minimum values range from 1-30kΩ. And I'd always test at a minimum of 1000V because we never have strings that are less than 500! As for the array frame, bonding requirements are one thing but they all require (according to the CoP section 5.13) at least functional earthing. The functional earthing requirement is to ensure that the insulation resistance monitoring works properly and we all know that it will still trigger even when there isn't a funcitonal earth, but that's that!
Do solar panels that are this big require series based connections? What is the voltage and amperage that these types of solar panels deliver? I’m still very young and would like to learn more about electricity.
Interesting to see them release a meter that's only rated to 1kV. Still, lots of arrays will be covered by that voltage but many countries either already permit higher or are moving to it. Personally 1kV or more on the roof gives me the heebie geebies.
1kV+ meters are indeed very limited at the moment, which is a bummer as the utility scale (10-200MW) farms I work at are almost exclusively 1.5kV systems these days. Luckily HT does have the PV-ISOTEST that can do 1.5kV and of course the Fluke 393 is pretty nice for quick checking (also for AC as that is also almost exclusively 800V on new parks). But for short circuit tests I also rely on a 1500VDC 45A load breaking isolator switch to make and break the short in combination with the fluke 393 to measure the current if I exceed the 10A rating of my normal Fluke DMM fuse. But I don't think it will be long until they cross the 1500V line for the utility scale installations, we already have to be certified for HV on the AC side on these parks anyway (10-35kV central inverters) so that's no longer a barrier for the manufacturers who have already done some tests at 3kV DC. This is all land / water based systems, no roof work for me, also following Dutch / German regulations.
This is precisely why I shudder when I see some of the US TH-cam channels that talk about DIY solar. Standard mains is one thing but solar is a whole other ball game and I’m not convinced that it’s as well understood in the sparky industry as it should be.
NEC standards, UL standards and IEC testing are equivalent to these in the US - DIY is another issue and that is a concern but too many US sparks are weak in testing partly due to lack of teaching in this area. That being said testing on its own won’t find all issues that is where understanding related fire, mechanical and environment issues around installation is important namely avoid seeing testing as a check-box exercise. Testing should not stop you thinking and assume everything is safe.
Is it just me that thinks these tests are unnecessary? Most installations these days are done using optimisers or micro inverters which give you all the data you need to see if your array is performing well. All the test equipment companies must be happy with these regs. It's almost like they're scratching each other's backs! Oh what a conspiracy theorist I am!
Most installations don’t have optimisers. Especially the larger ones without any shading issues. Even if you fit an optimiser you still need to perform the installation tests.
@@efixx I'd love to know the percentage of installers who sit up on the roof with a lux meter plugged in taking all these measurements on every single panel. I'd estimate almost none lol.
The only test I can see being important here is the insulation test. The rest are very obvious by simply looking at the inverters current operating measurements and knowing what panels you have installed. The idea of going on a roof with an irradiance device to check power output, crazy, who's to say the irradiance device is calibrated, better get another irradiance device to calibrate against the first one... Oh hang on solar panels are irradiance measuring devices if you know how to correctly interpret the solar panels properties correctly.
@@efixxSolaredge, one of the market leaders, mandates optimisers on every panel. I'd estimate we use optimisers on 20% of installs. It's frustrating to spend circa £1500 for a tester that can't be used on many installations.
My seaward pv150 requires an earth connection so I always connect a cable to the rails and bring it to the earth point at the location of the Inverter. But as I am aware the rail only needs to be earthed if it's within 1m of a valux window on the roof . So touch voltage as a person could touch the rail or solar pannel. Correct me if I am wrong please.
@@efixx every system I have been involved in I use a 4 or 6mm PV cable and clamp it down then back to the equipment. Easier than getting a ladder out I suppose.
Friends of mine recently had solar fitted on a metal roof with metal downpipes. How should that be earthed, & similarly the heat pump? If both are earthed to the MET on the PME supply, & if there's an open PEN fault, then both will become live with respect to true earth & we have exactly the situation that lead to the requirements for PEN fault detection & isolation in EV chargers....??
@@alanjewell9550 a few years ago on a forum I asked the question regards fitting an open pen unit for a EV for my caravan hook up. Wow wished I never asked as I got slatted. But I will be fitting one to supply my caravan at home regardless if it's not in bs7671.
@@efixx depends, Myenergie Libbi batterie’s work perfect with them, as does my solar hot water immersion based tank and my underfloor inscreed heating on my energy eddies. Zero export! Also have a 6kw wind turbine. Just love all this new tec from Myenergie to divert power. So i do in fact have grid connect inverters but not for PV, so do not bother with strings of PV on grid connect systems. Just use strings for off grid systems (with the victron multiplus inverter chargers).
Gotta be honest, the real money seems to be in making these single-application testing apparatuses and printing regulation books.
Nicely explained, cheers
Hello, thanks for the information
Nice piece of kit but 15 Amp is too low most of our inverters are rated at min 22 amp maybe they can supply a shunt to increase the I Max test. Also note, both V-max and V min are very important to the performance of the Inverter.
Stay tuned….. 😉
The NEW PVCHECKS PRO can do 1500V Open Circuit and 40A Short Circuit 😉
Brilliant video 👏
Just need a hat 🧢 next time - waterproof version!
@@efixx 😂😂
Good 🥰
Great video! Food for thought - BS7671 recommends Riso testing at higher than 500V if your system voltage is higher, which is normally the case in a commercial scale install. The latest version (2018) of BS EN 62446 goes further to recommend Riso test voltage is higher than 1.25x string Voc under STC. This results in a recommended test voltage of 1000V or even 1500V for any commercial-scale installation with the same 1 megaohm pass criteria.
Great feedback- which of course makes common sense. This tester supports up to 1000VDC testing.
@@efixx Yeah. Testing voltage obviously has to be above the string voltage.
@@scwfan08Agreed but how much higher than the open circuit voltage should it be? That's the question.
Where is the voltage at 1.25x Voc going to come from in an installed operational PV system?
We are not talking cabling which is being fed from the national grid, we are talking DC where the maximum voltage is set by the design of the panels.
Interestingly the IET's code of practice lists much lower minimum isolation values for arrays as opposed to cables - I *think* they might be asking you to test the cables at 500V with a nimimum of 1MΩ. When you look at table 5.3 on page 65 the minimum values range from 1-30kΩ. And I'd always test at a minimum of 1000V because we never have strings that are less than 500!
As for the array frame, bonding requirements are one thing but they all require (according to the CoP section 5.13) at least functional earthing. The functional earthing requirement is to ensure that the insulation resistance monitoring works properly and we all know that it will still trigger even when there isn't a funcitonal earth, but that's that!
Riso on solaredge should be done with 250V
Do solar panels that are this big require series based connections? What is the voltage and amperage that these types of solar panels deliver?
I’m still very young and would like to learn more about electricity.
Can we use a mega tester for IR
Dc clamp meter and DC voltage indicator for testing.
Interesting to see them release a meter that's only rated to 1kV. Still, lots of arrays will be covered by that voltage but many countries either already permit higher or are moving to it. Personally 1kV or more on the roof gives me the heebie geebies.
Stay tuned!
I remember the days of Neon a 10kV 100mA transformer on a roof was pretty standard stuff.
@@efixx I'd rather that than 1kV of DC at 5A.
1kV+ meters are indeed very limited at the moment, which is a bummer as the utility scale (10-200MW) farms I work at are almost exclusively 1.5kV systems these days.
Luckily HT does have the PV-ISOTEST that can do 1.5kV and of course the Fluke 393 is pretty nice for quick checking (also for AC as that is also almost exclusively 800V on new parks).
But for short circuit tests I also rely on a 1500VDC 45A load breaking isolator switch to make and break the short in combination with the fluke 393 to measure the current if I exceed the 10A rating of my normal Fluke DMM fuse.
But I don't think it will be long until they cross the 1500V line for the utility scale installations, we already have to be certified for HV on the AC side on these parks anyway (10-35kV central inverters) so that's no longer a barrier for the manufacturers who have already done some tests at 3kV DC.
This is all land / water based systems, no roof work for me, also following Dutch / German regulations.
Not much discussion on domestic mounting bonding ! ?
This is precisely why I shudder when I see some of the US TH-cam channels that talk about DIY solar. Standard mains is one thing but solar is a whole other ball game and I’m not convinced that it’s as well understood in the sparky industry as it should be.
NEC standards, UL standards and IEC testing are equivalent to these in the US - DIY is another issue and that is a concern but too many US sparks are weak in testing partly due to lack of teaching in this area. That being said testing on its own won’t find all issues that is where understanding related fire, mechanical and environment issues around installation is important namely avoid seeing testing as a check-box exercise. Testing should not stop you thinking and assume everything is safe.
The DIY community is strong in this application - You’re correct everyone is still learning
Wise words
No DIY whatsoever is installing 1kv strings stop trying to regulate things.
15 amps max, if thats short circuit current then the tester is already out of date, most panels are above that already and only going to get higher.
Is it just me that thinks these tests are unnecessary? Most installations these days are done using optimisers or micro inverters which give you all the data you need to see if your array is performing well. All the test equipment companies must be happy with these regs. It's almost like they're scratching each other's backs! Oh what a conspiracy theorist I am!
Most installations don’t have optimisers. Especially the larger ones without any shading issues. Even if you fit an optimiser you still need to perform the installation tests.
@@efixx I'd love to know the percentage of installers who sit up on the roof with a lux meter plugged in taking all these measurements on every single panel. I'd estimate almost none lol.
The only test I can see being important here is the insulation test. The rest are very obvious by simply looking at the inverters current operating measurements and knowing what panels you have installed. The idea of going on a roof with an irradiance device to check power output, crazy, who's to say the irradiance device is calibrated, better get another irradiance device to calibrate against the first one... Oh hang on solar panels are irradiance measuring devices if you know how to correctly interpret the solar panels properties correctly.
@@WindyJAMiller oh they'll insist on you having a calibrated meter mate. All part of the revenue stream 🙄
@@efixxSolaredge, one of the market leaders, mandates optimisers on every panel. I'd estimate we use optimisers on 20% of installs. It's frustrating to spend circa £1500 for a tester that can't be used on many installations.
My seaward pv150 requires an earth connection so I always connect a cable to the rails and bring it to the earth point at the location of the Inverter. But as I am aware the rail only needs to be earthed if it's within 1m of a valux window on the roof . So touch voltage as a person could touch the rail or solar pannel. Correct me if I am wrong please.
That’s out interpretation also 👍
@@efixx every system I have been involved in I use a 4 or 6mm PV cable and clamp it down then back to the equipment. Easier than getting a ladder out I suppose.
Friends of mine recently had solar fitted on a metal roof with metal downpipes. How should that be earthed, & similarly the heat pump? If both are earthed to the MET on the PME supply, & if there's an open PEN fault, then both will become live with respect to true earth & we have exactly the situation that lead to the requirements for PEN fault detection & isolation in EV chargers....??
@@alanjewell9550 a few years ago on a forum I asked the question regards fitting an open pen unit for a EV for my caravan hook up. Wow wished I never asked as I got slatted. But I will be fitting one to supply my caravan at home regardless if it's not in bs7671.
Great vid. But I much prefer micro inverters, they I believe are the future.
Not so easy when it comes to battery storage though?
@@efixx let alone utility scale systems, I will quit my job the instance I get send to a 50MW plant with microinverters....
@@efixx depends, Myenergie Libbi batterie’s work perfect with them, as does my solar hot water immersion based tank and my underfloor inscreed heating on my energy eddies. Zero export! Also have a 6kw wind turbine. Just love all this new tec from Myenergie to divert power. So i do in fact have grid connect inverters but not for PV, so do not bother with strings of PV on grid connect systems. Just use strings for off grid systems (with the victron multiplus inverter chargers).
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