The Rise and Fall of the DCEU
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ธ.ค. 2023
- In this episode, we're hitting the rewind button to discuss the Rise and Fall of the DCEU! Also, start building your own USS Enterprise today at an7b.short.gy/Variant_StarTrekUS
With the DCEU era coming to an end with Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom, we are taking a look back at the now abandoned universe to discuss what went right and where it went terribly wrong. It's an interesting case study for future world builders, so lets get into it!
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#DCEU #dcuniverse - บันเทิง
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Well done!
👏🏻😎
They had a good run lol bro 😮😊😊
I feel like aqua man success was also cus of the visuals kinda felt like I was watching avatar for a bit lol
Honestly I hated Ben Affleck as Batman to me that's bvs movie was the worst ever. I actually liked suicide squad part 1
I think if most of the DC animated movies were live action instead it would have been a success.
i don't think so, maybe.
@@dom2760 What do you mean you don't think so have you even watched the animated movies.
@@DahGabriel-gk2cryeah, their animated movies have been pretty 🔥 over the years. Waaayyy more good than bad, even great.
They should have just taken the New52Verse animated movies and made them into live action versions
The animated movies were all better than their crap live action. Man of steel and aqua were probably the ones that got the better performance ratings
There was a rise?
That's what I said
Man…there’s so much I’ve been wanting to say about the DCEU for the past 10 years. It’s been hard being a DC fan for the past decade. It finally ending feels like a weight has been lifted
For years, I've been telling DC hardcore fans, Zacks direction was prolonging the explosion that Marvel fans enjoyed.
Hopefully, Gunn will do much better. Although, I'm not convinced based on James's first work at DC so far.
Most of all, wish he'd kept Cavill.
I've been a DC fan over 40 years
@TheEdorizo it's only been since Batman vs. Superman, that's been bad. I thoroughly enjoyed Man of Steele backward, with a few Batman exceptions.
@@DjSsaBackwardZack dropped the ball on BvS, should have done Batman year one, I know Batman begins basically covered that, but you can’t tell me that setting up a Batman origin story in a shared universe would not have kicked ass in the box office. Or basically if instead of BvS, you did the Robert Patterson film and have that be the second film in the DCEU it wouldn’t have made a killing. The third film be Wonder Woman. Done a flash film with grant gustin that is more lore accurate to the comics rather then the cw show (of course it would require the tv show to end prematurely, but honestly I don’t think anyone would mind). Do an aqua man film, and green lantern film. Then do Batman vs Superman: worlds finest film, that features Wonder Woman, flash, aqua man, and green lantern, then do a justice league film where Orm is the big bad and Aqua man gets help from the other heroes which forms the justice League. This would parallel the making of the Avengers and the MCU, where they built up the threat of Thanos. DCEU should have done the opposite by making a new gods movie where Darkseid goes around conquering planets while searching for the anti life equation. Have it be like a horror movie, darkseid just killing anyone who opposes him, the film ends with him getting the equation then setting out to test it on a worthy opponent. After that have sequels to each heroes movies with different villains. Superman 1 villains could still be Zod, Batman 1 villain could still be penguin or just the criminal element, wonder woman’s villain could still be ares (but have it end in a twist where ares says that he did nothing to influence the fighting in WW1, the truth is that humanity deep down has the innate desire for conflict, the uncontrollable urge to destroy itself, and how Wonder Woman was not so much fighting Ares as she was fighting the human condition of mutually assured destruction) that way when Steve Trevor sacrifices himself Wonder Woman while devastated by Trevors death, she still has hope that while humanity may have the capacity for violence and such cruelty, there are also people who will give their lives for love, for doing what is right, this inspires Wonder Woman to keep fighting for love and peace in mans world where it is needed the most. The flash film could be an origin story, an anthology where all his rogue gallery is introduced. The green lantern film could be an origin film that is like the animated green lantern first flight movie, except where sinestro is starting to become more corrupted, but have him and Hal Jordon become actual friends, that way the inevitable betrayal is more impactful, introduce more of the other lantern corps and the man hunters (post credit scene is the man hunters are hacked by brainiac for experimentation) . Aqua man sequel would be about black manta intentionally polluting the oceans to target Atlantis in an underwater bio terrorist attack. This film could have street level villains from Gotham, Metropolis, Coast City, Central City, Star City, acting as goons for Manta. Build these characters up and introduce more fan favorite characters like Green Arrow, Black Canary, Huntress, Martian Man hunter, Captain Marvel (Shazam), Batman’s sidekicks and give them struggles and character development that way the audience loves them. Then have brainiac come in with his man hunters to test out the justice league, after they are good and tired, brainiac deals the finishing blow by releasing Doomsday, after an intense battle Superman is able to put doomsday down, but dies in the process. The justice league and the world mourns Superman’s death and all who were lost when Darkseid comes in, using the anti life equation, resurrects both doomsday and Superman for his will. This essentially counts as a check mate for the dc universe. Enter in cosmic characters like Dr fate, John Constantine, Zatara, swamp thing, and etrigan. The next film will be titled Justice League Dark. This entitles dc magic users get the normal justice league characters into a pocket dimension away from Darkseid forces and they plan on how to defeat Darkseid (yeah, earth is devastated, humanity is enslaved if not outright killed off, Darkseid holds Lois in stasis as bargaining chip over Superman should he ever break out of his mind control state. The other justice league characters realize that the only way to get the power to stop Darkseid is by hoping around other universes and build up an army of alternate superheroes. Enter the endgame scenario with the multiverse where Darkseid glimpses the multiverse and peers into a universe that so happens to be the MCU. But it’s just a tease, it’s not going there in this hypothetical scenario. All that I came up with on the spot. Took about a half hour to think up them type. It won’t happen but I fell it is much better than what Warner brothers approved and what DC produced. On that note, If the MCU and DCEU had done a cross over movie in this hypothetical world, I would have named it Infinity crisis on multiverses.
@@geeebuttersnap2433if business would let creators do magic it would be fine. They had a whole schedule planned out yet ruined everything by rushing everything Gunn will do fine since the bar is so low.
Zak Snyder's Justice League was also supposed to give us another Green Lantern, John Stewart Green Lantern.
And martian man hunter
@@simplelee92 That was a last minute addition to replace GL since WB vetoed the character bc they were working in a GL series for HBOMax at the time
Ever since he left the Daily Show he hasn't been as great tho...
@@somejerkbagOn the plus side though we see him on BvS. 😂
*sigh!* If only...
I would argue 2018 and 2019 was the height of the superhero film industry, since half of the Marvel and DC films that came out around that time made over a billion (Black Panther, Infinity War, Aquaman, Captain Marvel, Endgame, Far From Home, Joker).
And while the other half didn’t make a billion, they still did very well at the box office. (Deadpool 2, Ant-Man and the Wasp, Teen Titans Go to the Movies, Venom, Shazam, Into the Spider-Verse). The only exception being Dark Phoenix, which isn’t surprising.
Marvel, Arrowverse and DC animated films reached their peak then.
And Snydercut and Spider-Man crossover summed up, now the genre is blowing away just like slashers and westerns, you won't be surprised by this anymore.
The DCEU's downfall was that it published a reading list of trade paperbacks they expected you to read before seeing the movies in order to understand them properly. People just don't do this, if anything a movie may inspire someone to read the book it's based on. No one is going to pay a couple of hundred bucks on graphic novels before going to see a movie they may not even enjoy.
I appreciate your commentary, because you did touch on the TRUE problem with the DCEU, which was WB executives. You could make a whole video of the behind the scenes shenanigans of the WB execs forced upon their creatives; forcing Snyder to pivot from a proper Man of Steel sequel to make BvS in the first place, completely changing Suicide Squad behind David Ayer’s back & much more. Executive incompetence, ESPECIALLY at WB, goes back decades! The DCEU COULD have been great if the executives left the creatives alone.
Yes this is 1000% true. Executives dug their own hole and now they've gotta lie in it. They completely messed with the universe and I hope DC is sold off to another studio or entity that can respect the material and the creatives working on new material
I 100% agree, not to sure they do. This video right here sounds a lot like a casual fan who only grew up on Marvel movies even though I know that's not the case which makes this video disappointing because the positive things that were said sounded so disingenuous that it probably would have made the video better if he never tried to say anything positive at all 🤷 just my opinion though!!!
Per Jay Oliva, Snyder already had BvS plans of his own accord
Yup. It's nice to see a TH-camr put their personal feelings aside and acknowledge the real villain. WB.
I'd say Snyder is equally as responsible as WB for ruining the DCEU. His outline from the beginning was not good at all with questionable story decisions and it not flowing naturally. When he had the helm, each of his films split the audiences and DC fanbase which is not good at all when you're trying to build a cinematic universe
At least we knew were the MCU was headed. They weren’t doing the story too much too fast, as they were slowly introducing us to characters, the multiverse and even the big bad (until Majors was found guilty). We do know Marvel Studios going to release everything they announced (Bob Iger made them push out Phase 4 too fast), and that Kang was (idk about now) supposed to comeback from his quantum energy core as The Beyonder while we got acquainted with new heroes, the multiverse and it’s collapse.
WB were just rushing tbh, they were just too worried about Marvel rather than just being patient and doing your own thing
@@skymanxd6366 Exactly. Let the big 4 have a solo movie first (Superman, Batman, Aquaman & Wonder Woman) before Justice League
@@LittleMan27 what’s crazy is that Snyder had a Batman movie in plan, it was supposed to take place before Batman v Superman and the villain was supposed to be Deathstroke, what I find annoying is that people blame Snyder for the Shit DCEU Movies when the worst movies weren’t even made by Snyder but the best movies in the DCEU were, Birds of Prey, Suicide Squad, WW84, Flash, were all movies that some people hated but Man Of Steel and the OG JL were beloved
@@skymanxd6366 that and they hired Zack Snyder
@@skymanxd6366 flash had issues but I enjoyed it way more then 84, birds of prey, suicide squad…
Imo, the latest Superman and Lois iteration is one of the most successful things to come from DC. Each show feels like a movie in itself. Interesting dialog, characters, and action.
Right on man Supes & Lois is definitely an acceptable adaptation
Tyler is the best Superman
The batman is also a successful movie coming from DC
Nah...the animated movies are a whole mess themselves...it just needs to have ONE FOCUS
@@megamegaO 🤣🤣🤣
Justice League was originally three movies. And your going over the plans Snyder wrote before Warner Brothers asked him to rewrite the story after Batman v Superman was critically received. In Part two they travel to New Genesis and fight Darkseid with Part 3 being the Final War on Earth against Darkseid and his forces.
Apokolips not New Genesis
@@IWannaUnaliveMyself No they went to New Genesis for the New Gods help since they were developing some form of alliance with the Green Lantern Corps. But while doing this they left Earth defenseless to Darkseid and he invaded both Earth and New Genesis killing everyone. It was a massacre.
@@ClaytonPZ Now I’m even more confused. How did they go to New Genesis to fight with Darkseid if Darkseid was attacking Earth? And what was Darkseid doing at New Genesis?
@@IWannaUnaliveMyself Cyborgs new mother box technology converted Batman’s flying fox plane to travel over to New Genesis. AND Darkseid invades New Genesis after taking over Earth killing members of the Suicide Squad, Batgirl, Shazam, Atom, and Luthor. Deathstroke gets away funny enough.
@@ClaytonPZ Ohhh so he took over Earth first. Then took over New Genesis
That was a fantastic recap, but I have to say I went through so many emotions during that video went through the excitement of man of steel to the bummed out of justice league to the anger of what happened afterwards and then back to the apathy made me sad
The flash being in suicide squad wasn’t a issue with consistency because injustice league the flash says I haven’t really done this before. I’ve only pushed people and ran away so he had encountered criminals and deterred and detained them. He just hadn’t battled or had to actively fight
Also that’s Joss Whedon’s rewrite. We definitely see Barry save people out of car crashes, and that can still fit with him creaming Boomerang. Then in ZSJL we see him be prudently nervous when seeing multiple parademons and the Boss Steppenwolf. - In fact, in the Snyder Cut, he only ever kills one (1) Parademon.
It's crazy how in the film industry, making 300m off a film isn't considered that much
depends on the film. What is the initial budget, how much are you spending on advertising, etc.
Ceo's get greedy 🤷♂️
Each company has its own brand of accounting. Some are better at Marketing than others. Some of the Films he listed aren’t actually busts from an Accounting or General Film basis. All of them except the ones listed as Hits, underperformed vs expectations but that doesn’t make them necessarily a Flop.
@@tombondcrispy6585nothing to do with that it’s the fact the budgets are usually up close to 200 million plus they share profits with theatres & need to spend at least half the budget for marketing
The studio killed it plain and simple. Though there was no longevity to Snyder’s plan (though can be fixed by Flash changing the timeline) at least it was a plan. Should’ve focused on solo films for their core characters then they get together as a team.
Agree with your last point. I never care about universe tbh. Nolan trilogi, phoenix joker, and robert pattinson batman. I love them all.
Ben Affleck’s Bruce will die but they can recast after Flashpoint.
Can't wait for the new DCU. DCEU started off on the wrong foot. When they decided to do BVS. Should have done MOS 2. Slowly build the universe instead trying to catch up to MCU with two movies.
It's going to fall harder than Joe Bidum does.
@@BrandonTBlackwelllol trump
DCU has a real opportunity here. They could be the next marvel. Where marvel went wrong is the same thing dceu did like you said. After they crushed for a decade, they wanted to speed run everything. Now flop after flop, DC has a tremendous chance of bringing back superheroes.
MCU really only has one flop
@Rnerdy197 don't you mean they only had one successful movie during the phase 5? The rest of them including the shows tanked hard.
I think it's better for DC superhero characters to be animated than live-action adaptation
I don't agree with you 100 percent, but DC always does very well with animation.
DCAU have better writers and directors than the DCEU. Bruce Timm was the tru pioneer.
Many say that about Marvel before the MCU.
DC still has potential for LA, it's just WB can't let everyone has creative freedom and butchering their work
U crazy
I like how he mentions Snyders' loss, but not Miller's B.S. in relation to effecting the franchise I mean.
At that point, the franchise is almost dead. Miller’s troubles ensured the movie would be dead on arrival.
Yeah, but maybe it could have been a revitalizing breath for either universe. Either without Miller in the movie, or if he hadn't done what he did.
I personally haven't watched the movie, so I can't speak to if the story of the movie is solid objectively. Solid enough to be great with any cast behind it, I mean.
there was no rise lol
The downward spiral of the DCEU is due to WB mismanagement since post-MOS
You kind of hit the nail on the head BvS started.the downfall it was to divisive a film and even Snyder said he was doing an experimental film with it. Plus he even said he wasnt competing with Marvel he just wanted to film what he thought looked cool. But even the box office failures after the General Audience left did higher audience scores then Snyders films. So they were going in the right direction with the lightening the tone but had no direction and like you said Snyders plans was basically fibe movies then do a Flash Point reset and make it the next guys problem to compete with Marvel
Well, that is one of the problems, WB wanted a director that would compete with MCU and Zack Snyder just wanted to have fun - play with known IP. These are different visions.
The DCEU had a "rise"?
I literally just had this thought and looked down to see your comment
They're trying to make the DCEU like the MCU where everyone making jokes at the most serious situation and making it R12
How could you do a Nightwing movie if you already killed off Dick Grayson
Snyder was being artsy and coy and he never spelled out loud that it was Dick. I’m pretty sure the first verbal confirmation of It Was Dick was way after the Hopeful Rumblings Of A Planned Nightwing Movie came out.
Then, the Nightwing movie could have come out and if Zack Snyder was any sort of cooperative artist, he would change any name drops in Justice League 2, the same way James Wan was allowed to let the Atlantians speak English without Airbender Pockets.
When did they start calling a film that grossed over $800 million on $200 million budget a failure? That's crazy! BvS, the directors cut, was very good, and MoS is my favorite superhero movie. Suicide Squad, the Joss Whedon Justice League, and WW sequel were absolute stinkers!
How many times will we have to go over this lesson just because a film made a lot of money doesnt make it good. There are many factors that can lead to a movie having full seats but only once ur there do u realize its a stinker
@dominquebanton9758 I didn't say anything about the movie being good, on that I agree with you. But at the end of the day, these movies are about making money, and to that end, the movie was a financial success
@@darmetriasroberson843 it is not considered a success when you have the DC trinity in a film and it didn't gross more than a MCU middle of the pack b and c list characters. It shouldn't be this hard to comprehend. When you have solo entries of the MCU making 1 billion with b a c listers and DC flagship characters not grossing more is a failure however you want to spin it.
@rg7656 not sure why you're not comprehending this, so I'll "spin it" this way. To say that it wasn't a commercial success is probably true. To say that it wasn't a financial success, well if you can add you know thats not true. The last time I checked, 8 was a greater number than 2.
@@darmetriasroberson843 the problem with your comprehension is that you are not an executive. Your expectations and theirs are different. You can say it is a financial success, sure. But like I said, to anyone in the business of making money on larger scale knows that, and I will say this again for the people in the back, any movie with the holy trinity of DC comics not grossing over 1 billion dollars when single B and C list characters from marvel can do it, it is not considered a success. Did it make money? Yes. Did it make the money that a movie with these characters in it should have made? NO. It shouldnt be that hard to get.
One does not kill off The Batman.
I meant to add “simply” lol
why don't the other live action batmen count? or is it just forced hate against Snyder?
Zack snyder didn't have a slate in the first place, he had a five movie story arc and it was up to the writers and directors to lead up the story. I hate when people keep referring the DCEU as the "Snyderverse"
That's true, and the fact that at the time DC didn't have its own studio like marvel did 😮
His Superman movie was trash. Such a shame for Henry Cavill
@@juniorjr9011 Bruh that's your loss, and the fact is Henry loved the film and character.
His 5 films does not prohibit any spin offs apart from Batman films post-JL3; but if Ben Affleck was ok with the whole old & cranky and beaten down Batman take, then I say we repect that and cope-&-seethe in private. 😅
@@davidw.2791 What you said did not make sense
I think the worst cause of why Warner Bros flopped so hard on this was the mentality "MARVEL!! Be Marvel as quickly as possible, we are losing hypothetical millions!!!" And so they tried to inflate a marvel level movie exploiting fan good will and star power at every turn trying to have their cake and eat it too. Also speaking in more recent mentality I think we are just more or less over the Super Hero craze. Like there will never be another infinity war. Also I will say it, Zack Snyder just sucked for Warner Bros goals. He had a vision, a dumb one, that did not work.
Marvel infinity war, ten years in the making. Justice league, few years of throwing stuff on the wall and see what stick
DCEU shuda started with the build up to the Legion of Doom
Snyders plan was never supposed to be a full cinematic universe like the mcu. It was supposed to be basically a self contained story like nolans batman, but bigger. It was supposed to end with a flashpoint rebooting everything. Then the suits got involved and changed things because they wanted a mcu like universe
The other directors can cram as many spinoff solo films as they like. The only loss is Batman after JL3.
Wow, it's kind of disheartening to find out how little we have in common when it comes to determining the quality of DCEU films - but I guess differences in opinion make the world a richer place. (We agree on Blue Beetle at least - deserved more love!)
For one thing:
Lex threw Doomsday at Superman the first chance he got, the same reason James Woods’s Hades threw the Hydra at Hercules the first chance he got.
Now if I were in charge of the DC Cinematic Universe here is how I would structure it :
1. Superman Solo Movie
2. Superman Sequel that introduces Supergirl and The Flash
3. Solo Batman Movie that introduces both Batman ,Robin and Batgirl.
4. Solo Wonder Woman
5. Justice League with the addition of Martian Manhunter , Green Lantern, and Hawkgirl.
That would be Phase 1 .
Here’s Phase 2
1. Teen Titans
2. Doom Patrol
3. Batman Death in the Family/Introduction and Death of Jason Todd
3.2. Nightwing Solo Movie
3.3. Batman and Robin the New Dynamic Duo/Introduction of Tim
3.4 Batman Under The Red Hood/Ressurection of Jason Todd.
3. 5Solo Green Lantern Movie
4. Justice League sequel that introduces Brainiac .
5. Shazam Movie with Black Adam as the main villain.
6 Justice League Dark/Magical side of the DC Universe
7. Justice League Throne of Atlantis.
Phase Three of the DC Cinematic Universe:
1. New Gods/ Introduction of Darkseid
2. Teen Titans The Judas Contract
3. Suicide Squad
4. The Metal Men
5. Blue Beetle and Booster Gold Team Up Movie.
6. Death of Superman
7. Reign of Superman
9. Return of Superman
10 . Teen Titans/Doom Patrol The Brotherhood of Evil
11. Teen Titans/Justice League Crossover with Trigon as the main villain.
12. Justice League : Legion of Doom
13 Green Lantern: Lantern War
14 .Justice League Darkseid War Part 1
15. Justice League Darkseid War part 2
DC Phase 4
1. Young Justice
2.Static Shock
3. Batman Beyond
Fortunately you aren't, Thanks to the Gods for that. The most successful character in DCEU you leave him out. that is Aquaman. Even the sequel which wasn't at the level of the first and hardly had any marketing, shows that the character is well received by audiences worldwide. You put in MMH, GL(who flopped big time) and Hawkgirl who hardly anyone knows about, except comic readers.
Also Superman works in an origin story afterwards people lose interest in the character, We had some 9 movies with Superman, except the first two all performed below expectations.
BvS shouldn’t have been made. Should’ve been a World’s finest adaptation or something with a different director.
Precisely
I don't think BvS was a bad idea. Just maybe not for their second movie. Maybe 6th or 7th.
BVS wasn't Snyder's original plan, it was sequel to MOS, but after WB saw the success of the MCU, they tried turning into marvel and rush the whole universe by putting in the justice league.
I remember thinking it was a bad idea when it was announced. The fact they were basically trying to do TDKR as the 2nd movie in just made 0 sense. The title was also stupid to me. BvS Dawn of Justice sounds like something you’d hear in The Simpsons
@@chidieberenwadike4165 Yes but WB didnt write BvS, Snyder did, not the screenplay but the entire story was 100% his, and the story is precisely what ruined the movie, BvS could have worked with better writing, furthermore Snyder shouldn't have accepted to lead a shared universe when he very clearly did not want to do so, he should have declined the offer and just made MoS2 after someone else made Bvs
DC animated universe is/was 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 wish they concentrated more on that.
Great video. So much potential they had but hopefully James Gunn brings it. DC has so many great stories to bring to big screen.
I honestly think that the dceu was doomed from the start due to the poor mishandling of Superman's character by a director who simply doesn't understand who Superman is and what he stands for. Zack was just the wrong director for Superman and DC in general.
But if he was comics accurate how was he mishandled?
@@RewMec226 Superman wasn't accurate to the comics in this universe, so he was still mishandled.
Yeah cus James Gunn clearly understands superman better and is going to make a better and more successful movie than MoS 😂
Exactly. Snyder didn't really understood all the dc characters. He tried to make every justice league brooding (except for flash) which is mostly batmans thing. Nothing against ben affleck but casting an old batman with a younger superman didn't sit well with me. And snyder telling us that we are living in a dream because of batmans no kill rule. I would have most likely Said that I'm quite wide awake
@@nemesisprime4501 James Gunn is going to do the same shit having a young Superman and older Batman. So are you also not fine with that?
I loved Aquarman and the lost kingdom
The reason why the DCEU failed because WB had no idea what to do with it. This franchise was a absolute mess from the very beginning.
It failed bc they hired the wrong guy to lead, same guy who admittedlt did NOT want to make a shared universe but accepted the job anyways. His bafflingly narrow minded decisions he implemented in BvS completely screwed up the DCEU before it even took off.
It felt like they were busy playing catch up with Marvel than actually planning out their universe. They could've capitalized on the decline the MCU is going through right now, but they tripped up at the start and they've been struggling ever since.
@pats3212 No, the DCEU could easily course correct after BVS. They had bangers after that movie. They could've fired Snyder and hired someone else, made a plan, and so on. Yeah, Snyder movies were divisive and a turn-off for many people, but come on, this is some higher-ups incompetence.
@Comicbookfanboy31 I'm aware of the opinions of each of his three movies. I'm simply putting all three together cause there people who hate all three, or like all three, never universal loved.
Yeah, universally hated like you so say. Everybody must listen to you. Mister Gunn's personally sent vendetta against the Snyderverse through a membership site. You disgust me and everything you stand for.
Nothing pained me more than Henry Cavill returning to Superman and seeing him in Black Adam only to lose the role altogether. I could cry how disappointed I was. Henry Cavill was easily one of the best parts of the DCEU. 😭
Thank you for mentioning that Zack had a plan, but Warner Bros messed everything up 19:09
Warner Bros improvised More because Snyder's Interpretation failed from the start
And that plan sounded awful
I loved Shazam Fury of the gods way more than the first one
While the Snyder cut is infinitely better than Josstice League it’s still just…okay in my opinion.
They should have done a Batman movie. That would have done really well too along with the Man of Steel and Wonder Woman. They should have done a trilogy movies for Wonder Woman, Batman, and Superman. This then leads up to BvS but without Doomsday in it.
I would have structured the first chapter like this:
Man of Steel
Wonder Woman
Man of Steel II
Suicide Squad (Ayer Cut)
Then split Batman v Superman in two films. One focused exclusively on the fight between Batman and Superman( with Metallo as the villain), and the second half involving the Trinity fighting Lex, Joker, Circe, and Doomsday. Tease the Superman and Batman fight throughout the phase, like Thanos in Phase 1
Tbh I think it's too early to put the suicide squad in before putting on at least one Batman movie. I think the first chapter should really flesh out the intros to the Trinity. Something like Suicide Squad should be out at least after BvS. But that's imo
@casualgamerthatsucks6576 I would add it as a breather so everything isn’t just the Trinity in the first chapter but I see where you’re coming from though. The Dark Knight Rises was still really recent so I think they could have skipped doing a Batman solo film (like what the MCU did with Spider-Man)
Ohh that makes sense, something to add now just so it can be there to setup something in the future chapters or something. Im down with that actually. I can see what your saying about the dark night rises being recent and all. But they may just treat it like an else worlds thing, or maybe introduce him in one of the Superman movies first? Idk.
Man of steel
The Batman
Green lantern corps
Batman/Superman world's finest
Wonder woman
Justice league
Instead of batman fighting superman, I imagine them working together like the animated movie public enemies
28:10 I almost wish The Rock would've waited to release Black Adam ⚡️ for James Gunn universe instead
Superman snapping necks is dope 😅
Even Back Then I Was More Of Arrowverse Guy even though the shows were woke, had awful CGI, bastardized key characters, and didn't make money for The CW I still had fun with It for what It was don't judge me
You guys should do a top ten list on the best comic book events of the year
They need to really start over give DC I better movie franchise and maybe make more of their characters recognizable!
"So maybe he (Leto) should stay away from comic book movies..."
As a HUGE Tron fanboy, knowing he's gonna be the villain in Tron 3 doesn't fill me with hope.
But Tron isn't a comic book movie. It may have gotten comic books based on the movies but it was it's own original idea back in the 80s
Blue beetle was excellent & I honestly hope they retcon it to the new DC film universe
You lost me at 'Henry Cavill is the best live-action Superman to date'.
Despite him being a lovely guy and a good actor, his portrayal of the Man of Steel was as far removed from the character as it could be. A soulless, almost robotic alien, feeling nothing but the weight of responsibility this meager planet has put upon his shoulders.
I can not sleep at night simply just thinking about Jason Momoa not playing LOBO yet.
Zack fundamentally misunderstands the character of Superman so badly it doomed the entire EU.
Killing Zod was never the problematic scene for me but kissing Lois while people still dying that was a problem.
There both a problem
Whole MoS was a problem
Symbolic of the priorities of Zack Snyder and WB - cool shot, but dumb for the movie; style over substance. That is why the franchise failed.
People had stopped dying and zod hadn’t showed up from the debris
@@raoul.__.r3363 LOL yeah people just stopped dying sure
I like that almost every one agrees that the place the DCEU started to go wrong was BVS . It was putting the cart way before the horse. Wish we could’ve gotten a proper Man of Steel sequel.
Great video that perfectly encapsulates the frustration I’ve been feeling as a DC fan since 2016. Really hoping Gunn can turn things around but we’ll just have to wait and see
James "I like Little Boys" Gunn won't fix anything.
I'v been a really die hard SnyderVerse fan, and really despite what's happening now, but after seeing this, i finally understand why it failed really bad and why people hated it!
The Snyder cut was nothing but 4 hours of Snyder sniffing his own farts
@@RyanLBrown9396 sorry, don't watch it.
Zack Snyder is the Uwe Boll of DC comic book movies.
It's kinda unfair to say this, but he really was the reason the DCEU failed, and BvS was really the movie that ruined any chances DC could have had.
He should have never been in charge. 300 and The Watchmen are more his style. If someone else had built the DCEU the right way, I would have loved to see him come in and do a Dark Knight Returns as an esleworld story.
The studio interference killed it completely. Hamada, Safran, and now Gunn have been digging its grave
Man of Steel is the most underrated hero movie of all time. It was incredible and Henry Cavill deserved better.
People like you are the reason why the DCEU has failed so badly. :)
@@schadenfreude6274dumb.
He deserves a better script. He himself wanted to leave DCEU way before Justice League was even shot
Underated hero movie of all time? Really? Like of all of cinematic history?
I enjoyed it. What made me believe Henry Cavill was Superman, was that scene when he destroyed the world engine, the music, along with his acting, that was a Superman moment. But A LOT of fans HATED the darker tone Zack Snyder went with, and bashed it to no end. The DCEU was doomed from the very beginning, Batman V. Superman didn’t help, along with Justice League, either one of those two movies were the nail in the coffin for the DCEU.
This was a really great (albeit, compressed) review of every DCEU film since you haven’t done those in ages which was shifted to the Podcasts. I really do miss those reviews.
However, let this be a lesson to all: Don’t rush the story & don’t change the tone of character just because it worked for a different character.
6:55 Batman definitely killed people in the Nolan verse. He blew up dozens of ninjas in the mountains after refusing to kill just one. Then there was Ras al Ghul: "I don't have to save you".
lol Zack Snyder really allowed Batman to hold a gun while the DC Trinity stand next together.
Never did I ever think the Flash would put a baby in a microwave before I saw that piece of filth movie
The DCEU was a flawed cinematic universe but had some good moments. It had potential but was rushed and came out to be a big colossal mess of a universe. With Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom closing this Cinematic Universe for good. I have to say the DCEU was a rushed mess that never reached its full potential. Here’s hope that the DCU will be better than its predecessor.
A lot of the same things I’ve said to friends. Loving your energy in going over this journey. Definitely sharing with friends
Batman v Superman: Rush to the Justice League! Sums up the DCEU in a nutshell. God bless you Honest Trailers.
Snyder had a vision, warner bros did not. Nolan and Bale went movie by movie. WB wanted a fourth, they said no. Quite a bit of time passed between Bale and Cavil. They should have been building since then. DC owned TV. Marvel showed up later but the Arrowverse was awesome. Seeing Burt Ward and Tom Welling show up was great. If that kind of commitment had been put into the DCEU, it could have been different. I also think it's ridiculous for them to have released the theatrical versions they did, then show the deleted scenes that would have made them better. They knew it was ending, at least let it end well. Now it's going to take time because they're restarting, not continuing. They're asking a lot of people to suddenly be invested in a product that WB was barely supportive of. Superhero fatigue better be gone by the time Legacy gets here. As far as Superman killing Zod, it showed internal struggle. He spent his whole life suppressing his abilities, then it's forced to actually use them. People had already did, Zod was going to kill 3 more, and he ended him before he could. The effect it had on him afterwards showed more humanity than we've seen since Reeves turned back time to save Lois. It made him interesting and relatable.
Snyder thought he was the Kevin Fiege of the DCEU and he wasn't. He was meant to be one of many directors just like the MCU. His fan expected every director to copy and stick to Snyder's cringe doom and gloom R rated style crap. When directors didn't they're films became far more successful and well liked than his
@ahappyklingon3631 So you prefer that fat beer belly goofy Thor to a no nonsense Superman? The WB had their chance to do right by those characters and their fans. They didn't. We got a Batman trilogy and then nothing. I get that Superman is known to be a boyscout, and he could have been. But he didn't get a chance to. The DC Universe is darker than the MCU, and it showed. Had Cavil got a 2nd movie we could have seen him in a bright Metropolis like we saw with Reeves, didn't happen. Do I agree with all Snyder's decisions? No. But considering that the WB execs were just sitting on their asses, I'm glad Synder gave us something. Cavil in only one Superman movie by itself was a huge missed opportunity. One of several.
@smoothoperator7219 the DCU was never meant to be darker than the MCU. Both Marvel and DC have dark and light characters. Both have parts of their universe that are dark. The MCU and other marvel movies kept their dark characters dark and didn't mess with light characters like Spider-Man. Wb didn't balance this at all. Except for Thor 4 where he was at his worst... a goofy loser....throughout the rest of MCU he was great. He suffered the most lost. Snyder wasted the actors talents. I wish Cavill was a Superman fan just like with the Witcher he would of fought to have Superman dine right .
@@ahappyklingon3631 I think I remember reading that he wanted the more traditional Superman in the 2nd movie. But he never got to do it.
Doom and Gloom always wins unless your afraid of the dark.
They desperately need a director that STICKS TO THE SOURCE MATERIAL. It should’ve started with the introduction of the characters then (maybe) this else world version with the Flash movie introducing the multiverse
End of an era 😢.
A trash one really. I hope whatever we got coming does DC comics justice
Jason Momoa As Lobo in the DCU. I'd definitely pay to see.
What rise?😅
What’s wild is that everyone hated Snyder years ago for what he did to BvS.. Then after JOSS-tice League, everyone worshiped Snyder. Never understood it.
He's still trash
@@ghost_kinggamer yep.
Thank you for putting this together
Well said, great video !!!
I personally am not confident in Gunn’s Superman legacy. Gunn only has one style, which is best suited for eccentric non-traditional teams, and that’s just not what fans want in a Superman movie.
He did say this movie is different than anything he's ever done
@@theofficialbigfavio7202 true, but I believe Hawkgirl, Mr Terrific, Guy Gardner, Metamorpho, and some other characters are gonna be in this Superman film… looks like it might be an ensemble film, which I am not too optimistic about personally. I hope Gunn does it well though!
@Comicbookfanboy31 okay, but everyone agrees one of the biggest mistakes the DCEU made was introducing too many characters too quickly… not sure how this can pull it off with almost 2x the amount of major characters as BvS
Did the ending of Ezra Miller's Flash movie create the DCU when he made one change in the past to get his Dad out of prison before coming back to the present? Will we see the same Flash in the DCU but with someone like Lucas Till playing him ?
No and no
No it didn’t but they literally had the perfect opportunity to do it
What it did was a perfect way to lose this version of the Flash in.the multiverse and dumping him into Clooneys Batman universe
No , they will definitely recast the flash, plus the way i see it, everything James Gunn did might be cannon, that is the Amanda waller and peacemaker team. The rest is in the past.
Lets not lean on those RT Critics scores though...
eu gosto da abordagem do Variant Comics, de dar a sua critica e dar sugestoes de mudancas, ao inves de so criticar e nao mostrar nenhuma parte positiva dos filmes.
Gostei muito dessa forma de trabalhar. Feliz natal a todos
Thank You, DCEU was a HOT MESS. All over the place. Rushed for no reason. They should of just left Man of Steel a stand alone film. Chasing MCU was a bad idea. No reason to even do this. If they just wanted WB would be eating right now.
Man I can't agree with you more, such a great video 👏
I really liked this video! I hope to see more like this in the future.
very well explained!!! loved this video
Great video as always you are one of my favorites in the comic book genre for TH-cam videos. Thank you for the quality that you have kept up during the years brother and happy holidays to you and yours.
I was born in 1980 and have been a DC fan since I was a Little kid, probably somewhere around 8384, I don’t hate Marvel or anything it’s just DC to me is my shit. That being said have been disturbed by other fans, especially the past four or five years, I don’t feel DC fans respect the films until it’s too late.
The whole reason Zack Snyder had to part way with Warner Brothers is because the fans didn’t like the first two movies. I love, MS, to me it’s the greatest Superman movie ever and I’m someone who has a lot of nostalgia for what Christopher Reeve did, but That movie didn’t have a very good outing and then everyone cried about what happened to the city at the end of that movie even though when you read the comic book cities like Metropolis and Gotham get destroyed every other year . Then they made fun of Batman V Superman for the Martha scene. For a full year after that movie came out every DC group I was in they were sharing memes making fun of it. So Warner Brothers got the message. OK you guys don’t like this guys then we’re letting him go. It was only after they showed him the door. Did everyone decide they really liked him. Well, if you guys really liked him that much, you should’ve supported him when he was there. It’s like burying a coworker to your boss and you and your friends constantly go to your boss, talking crap about a coworker and you get him fired and then a month later you start realizing all the good things he did for you.
The other thing that is disturbing, and this just isn’t in DC. This is true in Marvel, and in Star Wars two, we have to get past the way we’re rating movies. Comic book fans I think are the worst for telling you whether Movies is good or not. Some of these guys don’t even need to have TH-cam channels they’re not the quality that this channel is. I can’t respect fans when they have 20 movies that are “the worst movie ever made” or 20 movies that are “the best movie ever made” like there’s no in between with the comic book crowd. It’s the worst thing ever or the best thing ever.
So when you ask fans about the DCU, you get this answer like it’s the best thing and it smokes marvel or it’s just garbage from beginning to end. Man of Steel, Wonder Woman, Zack Snyder’s Justice league, Shazam, Aquaman, Shazam 2, The Flash and The Suicide Squad to me, were all very high-quality movies. I don’t think that the hate that Shazam part two and the flash or black Adam got Ws ferret all. I’m not saying their top 10 comic book movies, but people act like they were watching Batman and Robin or Green Lantern when they talk about those movies. And I get Ezra Miller is a scumbag but that was one of the best movies they put out as far as the story they were telling.
Batman V Superman is a movie I liked a lot but it did have some glaring problems and I felt like Zack Snyder was trying to tell three movies in one and it just could’ve been better but I don’t think it’s a horrible movie by any means.
The wonder woman movie, Harley, Quinn, birds of prey, and the first suicide squad. Movie are bad movies, and I’m not even saying all of it, that the fault of the Director, because in the instance of the first suicide squad movie, we never even got the Directors version of the movie.
I think the story of the DCEU should be a time, when a group of talented actors and movie makers got together to try to do something great but the corporate side who didn’t even have the right corporate structure at the time to compete with Marvel. Just kind of screwed everything up.
What sad now is that I don’t even think the new James Gunn DC lead studios is even going to get a fair shot. You already have people online that have already made up their mind that the 2025 Superman movie is going to be terrible and they’re already doing things to discourage other people from seeing it. Why are we doing this? Why are we trying to tear down something that we love? Do fans realize that we aren’t promised any of this? I had one Batman movie in the 80s and only one good Batman movie in the 90s and all I ever wanted was to see Michael Keaton and Christopher Reeve in the same movie together and now we live in a time when that can actually happen and fans act like we’re promised three comic book movies a year. No we’re not. When the fans finally killed this off, they’re not going to get this hypothetical perfect comic book movie that they think they’re going to get they’re just not going to make these anymore.
I’m so tired of this, hating on movies before they even come out. I’m fine if someone pays their money, go watches a movie and it turns out to be something bad and then they go online and share their two cents and keep it rolling. That’s not what’s happening we’re getting groups of people to rally other people to actively do everything in their power to make sure certain movies fail? For God sakes, please go higher or a working girl if that is how you are planning on spending your free time. To make sure other people don’t enjoy something that you don’t want to experience.
I think the blame for the failure of the DCU needs to go 50% to Warner Brothers and 50% to the fans. The fans are just as guilty because Warner Brothers made the mistake of actually listening to the fans and now the fans aren’t going to shut up , and you’re going to have a group of people that don’t know anything about moviemaking ruining this for everybody else.
You missed a lot of parts on Zack Snyder's JL plan, like JL part 3 and ending actually on Flashpoint (Jay Oliva confirmed) but oh well...
He seems intentionally leaving out key points that went on within the studio vs Snyders plans
@@anakinSkyhopper91 unfortunately it kinda seems like it, and I love Arris... Probably so that the "cultists" don't burn him alive. We all know that yes there is a small toxic part of our fandom, but we also don't like them. He might not know what the actual plan is, but idk, he's a comic book fan too, so...
@@anakinSkyhopper91 Exactly. The DCEU's biggest issues come from Warner execs and he should have given more attention to them. He did the first Suicide Squad film no justice in his evaluation
@@rikudoubapeck I wholeheartedly agree. None of the offscreen stuff that led to these horrible takes and basically licked Gunns and Safrans boots
A bet the holiday season is not gonna stop new rockstars😂😂😂
The DCAMU 2013-2020 was what we were expecting DCEU to be.
I have always been SO confused by the objection to Supes killy Zod. He killed Zod _and_ both of his henchmen Superman 2. Honestly, do yall have amnesia?
Plus he was killing the last of his kind to save an innocent family
@@karimdavis7065 Right?
He did not it was a prison at the bottom it was in a deleted scene
@@tyronecarson9625 Well that deleted scene is not canon so there you go HA HA 🤣🤣🤣.
@tyronecarson9625 But they deleted the scene. It's not in the movie. We didn't have DVDs back then. Everyone understood them to be dead for decades.
I remember walking into BvS with my cousin, being so hype for this new DCEU. When we left the theater all we could do was shout “Marthaaaaa”
I’d shudder to think how you had reacted to Winter Soldier
Great job bro
It’s wild how bad they fkd up Batman v Superman smh
to be honest, i am happy to watch a comic book company fail to make it on the big screen since the more success they have in theaters, the more said company destroys their comic book brand. hell look at marvel, their comics have been outright shit for many years which is all in part to their movies success along with the fact that almost the entirety of their fans know nothing outside of the movies aka the disneyverse. the more comic companies fail in the big screen, the more it saves the comics from being outright destroyed so i consider this a win for the comic book genre
Except that's only a personal opinion, plenty of great Marvel comics the last ten years to go with the shitty ones. Same as DC, same as always really.
If it were that drastic of a change since the movie started Marvel wouldn't still generally have the biggest market share in comic sales every year.
What do you think James Gunn is going to do to put the live action DC franchise on the top compared to what Zach Snyder did? Also just like David Corenswet is playing Superman in the DCU, is James Gunn going to reveal which actors are going to play the other members of the Justice League also when is he going to do solo movies and team up Justice League movies for them?
Henry Cavill deserved to have his own stand-alone sequel It's not fair what happened to him
Walter Hamada needed his bonus.
Is the Blue_Beetle movie really part of the DCEU since the events of that movie is going to be part of the Booster_Gold series on HBO Max which is in the DCU?
It's good that's its so far off from the DCEU that it can easily be integrated into the new DCU,
Cavill the best Superman to date? Um, no. Christopher Reeve was. There's a reason every Superman incarnation is compared to his portrayal.
Variant on Point!
Here’s hoping James Gunn’s DCU will be much better
Couldn't disagree more with your opinion on The Suicide Squad & Peacemaker; I have no problem with James Gunn (love the Guardians of the Galaxy movies), but those two projects both cater to the lowest common denominator and celebrate inhumanity while not being funny ...