Love what tormach has become and done, I wish I would have started off with them but after you learn to build cnc machines it's hard to ever justify going with their machines.
This has some good features but tool plate and bar feed for small production runs is what I am after. Still a nice size for a home shop. Going to check out the pricing.
Spent a lot of time running a HAAS TL-2 lathe. Same set up with tool post and 3 jaw. You can run some low volume production using a boring bar to do your ID work, then turning your spindle backwards(M4) and cutting the outside in negative X. Make sure you set that tool up as 1 tool with 2 offsets though. Some folks make multifunction tools that are basically a boring bar that can be put on center to drill holes which would be the premium version of what I just described. Sorry for the long comment
@@semidemiurge TL-2 or TK-2? If you meant TL they’re very simple to use as with any Haas machine. You’ll have to do some preventive stuff for coolant leaks for sure. Can make a real mess in a hurry. Make yourself a “Master program” with all your typical canned cycles so you can copy-paste-edit your way to new programs with ease. Honestly most content for creative use of a manual machine is going to be relevant in some way because of the lay out. Great machine for what you want. Probably overkill for most hobby stuff but if the price is right
Great video! My High School machining class here in Vernon, Alabama just ordered an 8L lathe. We're really looking forward to more videos about y'all's experience with yours. Any tips/tricks/suggestions are more than welcome! Thanks for what y'all do!
I just bought one a few months ago. I make molds and parts and let me tell you, it is a great buy. Easy to use and I was told they will have a pnuematic collet closer coming soon. Looking forward to it. Tormach has great machines and easy to use.
I am a conversational programing machinist and its much simpler than it looks it can be hard if you use to seeing a 3d model of you part but in my experience in conversational programming I've only worked off a print to do all my programing have to try to make the part into a 3d model in my head. It can be hard for some but also its pretty easy to pick up. Also I only program on mazak in mazatrol.
I have dabbled a lot with the conversational on our Haas VF2 in our shop. It’s pretty user friendly for the most part. I have found it more useful on mills than I have on a lathe. Fort the most part, if you have a turn program already written, you can just copy and paste almost any path you would need and play with the canned cycle.
It's a step above something like a Sherline while being far less expensive than the Slant, seems to me like it will be filling a gap in the market. Nice new shirts btw ;)
For the same cost or less you could get a used professional grade machine that would leave that thing for dead. I recently bought a little haas turning centre for an ongoing job that I needed a small machine for, it would be perfect for someone interested in one of these. Just look around in the used market for smaller Haas or similar, you would make a much better decision buying a used professional grade machine than buying one of these new, and the resale would be much higher. And you’d get so much more functionality like 12 station turret, programmable tailstock, you might even pick one up with live tooling and a C axis, the benefits are endless... if someone gave me one of these, I’d hock it on ebay ASAP and put the money towards a proper machine.
@@madaxe79 Totally understand but those machines are usually HUGE, not fitting in a 1 car garage. They are probably pre 2000's machines which means the controllers don't take USB. They probably take 220v 3 phase. And there is practically no support if they break down. So if you have the space, you're pretty familiar with the machine tool for maintenance, you have 220v 3phase, and you're willing to deal for floppy disks or tape reader converters then of course its better to buy used. But I'd be willing to bet most people don't have those luxuries.
@@jacobfalk4827 you’re talking about a lathe, there is no reason to have a usb. You only need a handful of gcode to run a 2 axis lathe... if you look for a mid 2000’s Haas SL10 you’ll get a machine that has all you’re asking for, and enough leftover to buy a phase inverter to run it from single phase in your garage... and it will have better support, more reliable, more capable, and be a professional quality machine. I mean buy what you want, but if you want an expensive useless toy, buy a tormach, if you want a real machine, buy a used professional quality machine.
@@jacobfalk4827 Oh another thing: if you need CAM to run a CNC Lathe, you probably should buy a sewing machine instead... I get it for milling, I use CAM sometimes myself, usually for surfacing complex shapes, but on a lathe, there’s no reason to use CAM in the home shop. Especially if you buy a machine with a good conversational program, but most of the time you’ll use an existing program and modify a couple of parameters and you’re cutting in 5 minutes. Even if you’re doing a complex part with heaps of tool changes, most of the time you’re gonna copy and paste. When you first get the machine, spend half a day setting it all up, write a few basic programs for different ops or tools, then when you are ready to start making parts, just copy from those programs, or you can use them as sub programs and use variables. It will take you so much longer to use cam than to use use conversational.
@@madaxe79 while i mostly agree with you (barely using cam, even on a 4 axis lathe with powered tools), i have to say that your attitude does you no favours.
I was having a problem with toolpost moving around. I machined a bushing to take up the space between the tookpost and the mounting bolt, and now alignment is much easier without the toolpost sliding around when adjusting, hopefully that will keep it from being knocked out of alignment so easy. I am not using coolant on mine as i got mine for hobby use, and no way to legally get rid of used coolant out here in the sticks. Love the conversational programming on pathpilot.
To get rid of the coolant, you could put it in a barrel outside with the top off but covered in some way so it doesn't fill up with rainwater and so animals can't drink it and the water will evaporate away and leave you with a much lower volume of concentrate to get rid of. I only change my coolant every 18 months or so. Just need to check the coolant concentration and top up with non-tap water - I collect the water from a dehumidifier or you could get a deionized water filter which would be better I think. I also run an aquarium air stone pump if I'm not using the Mill for a while. I also use a tramp oil pillow to soak up the oil, though I forgot to get a new one last time and just use some pig mat.
One thing that I've often thought about is taking advantage of quick release couplings for improved coolant delivery. A lot of turning holders (particularly the capto style) have directed coolant jets which are directed straight at the cutting zone so having quick release units built into the turret would make changeover a lot easier
@@littlejackalo5326 Yeah I've seen those before but this was more to do with the fact that a lot of turning toolholders have directed coolant nozzles which are designed to hit right at the cutting edge. If you've got a good flow of coolant from the pump that's then forced through a small opening it's a definite improvement on the coolant delivery compared to just dribbling it over the whole workpiece. For manual/small CNC lathes this might require a fair amount of thinking but on more production-ready suppliers (Doosan, DMG, Mazak etc) this is more readily available.
@@alexwbakker that quick release mechanism is what I'm thinking, they're the same as pneumatic connections, but they can come threaded on one end so drilling and tapping the ends of boring bars with these fittings would give you much better controlled coolant delivery for boring
Have you guys done something about gang tooling or the ball puller? This machine is perfect for a job I'm quoting right now but these features are a must for the project.
That is a nice little lathe and a very cheap package for a prototyping shop. I know hobbyists who spent more money on trying to convert a Chinese mini lathe into a CNC lathe
Good little collet lathe. Compared to precision collet threading lathes I have used in the past, that cost 2x more. This machine smokes them in ease of setup and overall versatility
I don't see the point if you have to change each tool by hand. Tormach should make a swiss style, dual spindle cnc lathe with this footprint, that would be neat.
I think changing the tool by hand is a marketing thing. From some of the reading I have done, it seems you can mount a tool post at the other end as well, or some form of gang tooling but there is no real information on the Tormach site to support that. It's only a matter of time before someone comes up with a small automatic tool post that can be fitted.
I would be interested if they made it with auto chuck and bar feeder, I run an old emi mec pug board for macking a 12mm pin parted off but after 30 years the machine is a bit tired, I was looking at the haas chucker but not at that price
@@littlejackalo5326 yes I know but what I make isn't mass production may be 1000 to 2000 parts every 2 months, tormach don't have an agent in the UK and judging by the cost of there slat bed I would go for a beefier machine, I leave the big production to the guys with sliding head Swiss lathes I'll stick with smaller batches that are too small for them.
@@footpetaljones thanks might look into them, looking at the USA prices for the slant bed they don't seem to be a cheap machine in contrast to say a haas or xyz. I will at the moment cary on with my 1970 capstan emi mec as the job wouldn't make it pay if I up graded. 👍👍👍
Does anyone know the power and torque curves so I can create an HSM Advisor profile? I asked Tormach back in November sometime and while we have had some pleasant email exchanges over the last month that information doesn't seem available or they are unwilling to share. I would have thought the information I am asking for would be pretty basic and figured out in the early stages of product development. I want to create some theoretical posts for parts I would commonly make before I commit and have a lathe shipped 1/2 way around the world.
Well, after I got talking to someone at Tormach that could help me I got the Power and Torque curves and created some HSM Advisor profiles which I uploaded.
You describe tramming and centering the tool height as if that were all that is required to deploy a new tool. But how do you calibrate the X and Z locations of the tool edges? That must be a nightmare, and has to be completely redone (for the whole tool table catalog!) any time the quick-change post gets nudged. The final precision achieved is never better than the collective per-tool calibration across the whole catalog, so I imagine your boast of 0.001in repeatable tolerance is wildly optimistic. Dozens of calibrations to maintain, any one of which, going off, spoils the works. Grooving or threading up to a shoulder, with a slightly-off Z calibration, you're gonna crash. The lead screws aren't even linear to 0.001in, the QCTP tool clamping is more non-repeatable error source, so adding up all that uncertainty can't deliver consistent precision. Hard to believe you cut an M2 thread within all the tolerances (only +/- 0.00125in on pitch diameter). Changing tools by hand is actually faster than any automatic changer. The problem is having to attend the machine full time. Eventually you get bored or absent-minded. Then you change-in the wrong tool. Or you hit the resume button out of habit before you realize you didn't change at all. Kaboom! An optical tool setter inspection microscope attachment would be a very productive accessory, attachable to the headstock to provide a repeatable fixed datum of the tool edges. A pointed 1/2-inch edge finder is cheap and precisely ground, no need to be improvising that pointed bar.
Basically everything you said regarding tool offsets is applicable to any toolroom CNC lathe running a QCTP. Nothing new here. So long as the tool post the machine comes with is a high quality (repeatable) one, I don't really see how .001" repeatability is unreasonable. And no, changing tools by hand is almost never faster than an automatic tool changer. What ATC's are you using?
The tool post isn't going to move "every time it gets nudged." You'd need to put a wrench in the bolt and loosen it for the top post to rotate. You're making it sound way harder than it is. Even with a manual lathe and dro, you can set tool positions very easily. And it has ball screws, not traditional lead screws.
@@tbdcreations5370 The QCTP shown is the ordinary type that is just clamped with a threaded post and nut. It has no repeatable position relative to the carriage and the machine coordinates. It shifts and turns anytime there is a false engagement or crash, losing the datum and requiring a laborious recalibration. Of course there is nothing new about it, it's what manual lathes have used for 50 years. The tool holder to QCTP repeatability is not the major problem; the problem is the QTCP to carriage fixation that isn't reliable, detectable, or repeatable. There is no removing this weakness, because the QCTP has to be the weak point that gives when there is a crash. If you fixed it in position more firmly, then something else would have to give or break when there is a crash, probably the leadscrews or bearings, disastrously, permanently degrading. In the manual days, this wasn't a problem because the operator's hands and intelligent senses on the cranks were the ultimate torque/force limiter. But CNC has no such sensory detectors or intelligence to limit self-damage from motion faults. Instead you're relying on the QCTP to be an emergency one-time clutch, and when you blow that fuse you're looking at an hour or more to replace the calibration and restore precision. There's a train of mechanical imprecision sources: insert to tool, tool to holder, holder to QCTP, QCTP to carriage, carriage to {lead,ball}screw, screw linearity and rigidity, screw bearings, ways linearity and squareness, workholding, spindle. You add all those together in a machine of this type quality, you're never going to get repeatable precision of anything like 0.001in without cut-and-try intervention methods, and constant laborious tuning. Just to get a shop standard 0.003in requires constant care. Hope-and-try strategy will typically yield 0.005in or worse. CNC is like self-driving cars, player pianos, factory bakeries. They can drive/play/produce better and relieve the tedium, but new problems emerge because there's no soul. You can manually change a QCTP tool in a second or two. A turret ATC isn't any faster than that, and the stepper motor types can be quite ponderously slow. It's sort of a John Henry conceit, but then things didn't turn out well for him.
@@littlejackalo5326 The QCTP gets nudged whenever there's a false tool engagement or crash. That is a deliberate feature to "give way" and protect the rest of the motion mechanisms in the even of a crash. A proper CNC lathe contains torque and force limiters to stop a crash; this Tormach item does not have that, and relies on the QCTP weakness to provide some limiting. Still, the leadscrews and bearings are going to suffer some damage, loosen up, and lose linearity. Ball screws are irrelevant. The cheap rolled type used in this machine are no better than leadscrews for linearity and repeatability, several 0.001in error over their travel. They're preloaded, not precision ground, which spoils the backlash characteristic and force capacity. They don't get you bidirectional engagement. The only significant benefit to ball screws in this machine is their better mechanical efficiency, but that would be better done by just using slightly bigger motors.
@@RichardKinch I guess I'd agree that this particular QCTP is probably more problematic than larger ones because of it's size (and because he mentioned issues with it in the video). But my point was QCTP have been used on many CNC lathes in the past and present. Trak toolroom lathes, Haas TL series lathes, ROMI Ezpaths. Typically what that means is you're limited to just a couple of tools to make setup time for a job reasonable. You make it sound like a big deal but it doesn't take more than 10 minutes to set the tools offsets for a handful of tools. Clearly we're both just speculating on the precision of the machine, maybe in a future video they'll actually give more feedback on real-world repeatability. Maybe you're much faster than I am, but I don't think I could reliably make a tool change on a QCTP faster than 3-4 seconds. A turret ATC on a large CNC lathe can change tools in 1/4 second or so (or less). I've seen ATC's on little educational lathes like this one change tools in closer to 1 second. But really, if you're trying to shave individual seconds off your cycle time then this is clearly not the lathe for that. That and there is no tool changer option for the 8L as far as I know.
So typical of youtube: I’ve been machining for 2.5 minutes, listen to me talk crap about a piece of crap while I try and sound like I’m an expert, but in reality, I’m just a typical cam-noob.
@@littlejackalo5326yeah crying... crying that this guy gets paid to make cnc lathe videos, while only knowing how to program with Cam... as if you’d buy one of those, when, for half the price you could get an old Mazak or similar that would do 100 times the work of that little piece of crap. Would be twice the size, twice as fast, way more powerful, way more accurate, and way easier to program. With the used market so accessible in the USA, i Cannot understand why anyone would ever buy a tormach, there is no reason I can think of to go for a hobby machine when you can get a professional machine for the same or less money. you’d buy a used professional quality machine any day of any week.
@@davidg4188 nah, just a guy that’s sick of people doing CNC or machining videos without being machinists. And giving bad advice as a result of them not being actually skilled at what they’re talking about... Tormach machines only exist for these people. The only people that would buy a Tormach are non-machinists who have too much money, no experience, and no idea... anyone who’s a machinist would buy a used industrial machine over a tormach any day, for half the price and twice the functionality. The problem is the idiots that watch CNC videos and think: that’s cool I wanna do that. So they go an buy a brand new Tormach. At the end of the day it’s up to you, but nobody is offering then the knowledge and wisdom to make an educated decision.
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Love what tormach has become and done, I wish I would have started off with them but after you learn to build cnc machines it's hard to ever justify going with their machines.
This has some good features but tool plate and bar feed for small production runs is what I am after. Still a nice size for a home shop. Going to check out the pricing.
Spent a lot of time running a HAAS TL-2 lathe. Same set up with tool post and 3 jaw. You can run some low volume production using a boring bar to do your ID work, then turning your spindle backwards(M4) and cutting the outside in negative X. Make sure you set that tool up as 1 tool with 2 offsets though. Some folks make multifunction tools that are basically a boring bar that can be put on center to drill holes which would be the premium version of what I just described. Sorry for the long comment
Considering a used TK-2 for hobby work, do you have any more thoughts?
@@semidemiurge TL-2 or TK-2? If you meant TL they’re very simple to use as with any Haas machine. You’ll have to do some preventive stuff for coolant leaks for sure. Can make a real mess in a hurry. Make yourself a “Master program” with all your typical canned cycles so you can copy-paste-edit your way to new programs with ease. Honestly most content for creative use of a manual machine is going to be relevant in some way because of the lay out. Great machine for what you want. Probably overkill for most hobby stuff but if the price is right
Those are the kind of features I wish I could buy in a brand new manual benchlathe.
Great video! My High School machining class here in Vernon, Alabama just ordered an 8L lathe. We're really looking forward to more videos about y'all's experience with yours. Any tips/tricks/suggestions are more than welcome! Thanks for what y'all do!
We have one on order for our lab. Should be in any day. Can't wait to start working with it!
I just bought one a few months ago. I make molds and parts and let me tell you, it is a great buy. Easy to use and I was told they will have a pnuematic collet closer coming soon. Looking forward to it. Tormach has great machines and easy to use.
they should get with Leader UK/Autogrip Taiwan for a 4" air/auto chuck collaboration
The thumbnail made me think it was a Tormach BBQ
PathPilot Chicken
Run it wrong enough it'll cook your ribs
Auto basting and turning. Not sure I fancy the chips though 😂
Sweet little CNC lathe for sure. Great video. Thanks!! 👍👍
This seems like a perfect replacement for my weiler matador manual lathe.
The price seems reasonable and not that bad to be honest.
Great review. Something I would put on my wish list for sure!
I just got mine - absolutely love it so far!
As always so nice to watch your videos.
I am a conversational programing machinist and its much simpler than it looks it can be hard if you use to seeing a 3d model of you part but in my experience in conversational programming I've only worked off a print to do all my programing have to try to make the part into a 3d model in my head. It can be hard for some but also its pretty easy to pick up. Also I only program on mazak in mazatrol.
I have dabbled a lot with the conversational on our Haas VF2 in our shop. It’s pretty user friendly for the most part. I have found it more useful on mills than I have on a lathe. Fort the most part, if you have a turn program already written, you can just copy and paste almost any path you would need and play with the canned cycle.
With a gang plate set up this looks great.
Hard to have a gang plate with only 4” of cross slide travel.
It's a step above something like a Sherline while being far less expensive than the Slant, seems to me like it will be filling a gap in the market. Nice new shirts btw ;)
For the same cost or less you could get a used professional grade machine that would leave that thing for dead. I recently bought a little haas turning centre for an ongoing job that I needed a small machine for, it would be perfect for someone interested in one of these. Just look around in the used market for smaller Haas or similar, you would make a much better decision buying a used professional grade machine than buying one of these new, and the resale would be much higher. And you’d get so much more functionality like 12 station turret, programmable tailstock, you might even pick one up with live tooling and a C axis, the benefits are endless... if someone gave me one of these, I’d hock it on ebay ASAP and put the money towards a proper machine.
@@madaxe79 Totally understand but those machines are usually HUGE, not fitting in a 1 car garage. They are probably pre 2000's machines which means the controllers don't take USB. They probably take 220v 3 phase. And there is practically no support if they break down.
So if you have the space, you're pretty familiar with the machine tool for maintenance, you have 220v 3phase, and you're willing to deal for floppy disks or tape reader converters then of course its better to buy used.
But I'd be willing to bet most people don't have those luxuries.
@@jacobfalk4827 you’re talking about a lathe, there is no reason to have a usb. You only need a handful of gcode to run a 2 axis lathe... if you look for a mid 2000’s Haas SL10 you’ll get a machine that has all you’re asking for, and enough leftover to buy a phase inverter to run it from single phase in your garage... and it will have better support, more reliable, more capable, and be a professional quality machine. I mean buy what you want, but if you want an expensive useless toy, buy a tormach, if you want a real machine, buy a used professional quality machine.
@@jacobfalk4827 Oh another thing: if you need CAM to run a CNC Lathe, you probably should buy a sewing machine instead... I get it for milling, I use CAM sometimes myself, usually for surfacing complex shapes, but on a lathe, there’s no reason to use CAM in the home shop. Especially if you buy a machine with a good conversational program, but most of the time you’ll use an existing program and modify a couple of parameters and you’re cutting in 5 minutes. Even if you’re doing a complex part with heaps of tool changes, most of the time you’re gonna copy and paste. When you first get the machine, spend half a day setting it all up, write a few basic programs for different ops or tools, then when you are ready to start making parts, just copy from those programs, or you can use them as sub programs and use variables. It will take you so much longer to use cam than to use use conversational.
@@madaxe79 while i mostly agree with you (barely using cam, even on a 4 axis lathe with powered tools), i have to say that your attitude does you no favours.
I was having a problem with toolpost moving around. I machined a bushing to take up the space between the tookpost and the mounting bolt, and now alignment is much easier without the toolpost sliding around when adjusting, hopefully that will keep it from being knocked out of alignment so easy. I am not using coolant on mine as i got mine for hobby use, and no way to legally get rid of used coolant out here in the sticks. Love the conversational programming on pathpilot.
To get rid of the coolant, you could put it in a barrel outside with the top off but covered in some way so it doesn't fill up with rainwater and so animals can't drink it and the water will evaporate away and leave you with a much lower volume of concentrate to get rid of. I only change my coolant every 18 months or so. Just need to check the coolant concentration and top up with non-tap water - I collect the water from a dehumidifier or you could get a deionized water filter which would be better I think. I also run an aquarium air stone pump if I'm not using the Mill for a while. I also use a tramp oil pillow to soak up the oil, though I forgot to get a new one last time and just use some pig mat.
Great overview. I wonder what setting you used to cleverly manage to get the coolant nozzle to catch the part during that parting op ? awesome ;)
i would like to know how to do that as well.
One thing that I've often thought about is taking advantage of quick release couplings for improved coolant delivery.
A lot of turning holders (particularly the capto style) have directed coolant jets which are directed straight at the cutting zone so having quick release units built into the turret would make changeover a lot easier
A lot of them come with a tool that you stick into the hole and move the jet to direct the flow. It's like a ball & socket that you can move around.
@@littlejackalo5326 Yeah I've seen those before but this was more to do with the fact that a lot of turning toolholders have directed coolant nozzles which are designed to hit right at the cutting edge.
If you've got a good flow of coolant from the pump that's then forced through a small opening it's a definite improvement on the coolant delivery compared to just dribbling it over the whole workpiece.
For manual/small CNC lathes this might require a fair amount of thinking but on more production-ready suppliers (Doosan, DMG, Mazak etc) this is more readily available.
the coolant couplings for TIG torch chillers are a great option - they're small and quick and have always been leak free for me.
@@alexwbakker that quick release mechanism is what I'm thinking, they're the same as pneumatic connections, but they can come threaded on one end so drilling and tapping the ends of boring bars with these fittings would give you much better controlled coolant delivery for boring
i really like the machine.. debating this or building a machine with acorn
Have you guys done something about gang tooling or the ball puller? This machine is perfect for a job I'm quoting right now but these features are a must for the project.
Thank you for your videos hoss
great video
Mills I have no issue. I wont say I fear the lathe, but a healthy respect, with rapids on 5% to first few times
Nice Toy! 😉
That is a nice little lathe and a very cheap package for a prototyping shop. I know hobbyists who spent more money on trying to convert a Chinese mini lathe into a CNC lathe
Is there a video on the fine adjustment base on that Noga? Looks homemade
Good little collet lathe. Compared to precision collet threading lathes I have used in the past, that cost 2x more. This machine smokes them in ease of setup and overall versatility
good video
I would be curious to see how the thread gage fits on those 1/4-20 😏
Not great lol
That would fit really nice next to my 440 hmmmm
The Southbend lathe of the future XD
John whats the price on that machine buddy
Pleaaase pleaase pleaase pleaasee put Metric conversion values on the screen for future videos 😢
Higbee thread is the most fancy word I've heard someone call a chamfer.
I don't see the point if you have to change each tool by hand. Tormach should make a swiss style, dual spindle cnc lathe with this footprint, that would be neat.
I think changing the tool by hand is a marketing thing. From some of the reading I have done, it seems you can mount a tool post at the other end as well, or some form of gang tooling but there is no real information on the Tormach site to support that. It's only a matter of time before someone comes up with a small automatic tool post that can be fitted.
Is it possible to tap M1.6??
Great intro video. Do you guys think the 8L can accommodate a gang tooling setup?
whats a what?..
You could probably build a gang block and fit it on. You're not going to get many tools on it though.
it seems to be a nice machine, but for prototyping an old manual lathe would make the work even faster jumping the programing job.
Friend how this machine 8 L cost you along with tool. Gulshan Kapoor from Delhi India.
what is that CNC router thats behind john at @8:20 all black looks sexy lol
I would be interested if they made it with auto chuck and bar feeder, I run an old emi mec pug board for macking a 12mm pin parted off but after 30 years the machine is a bit tired, I was looking at the haas chucker but not at that price
If you're getting into work where you need a bar feeder, this is not the large for you. It's not a production machine.
@@littlejackalo5326 yes I know but what I make isn't mass production may be 1000 to 2000 parts every 2 months, tormach don't have an agent in the UK and judging by the cost of there slat bed I would go for a beefier machine, I leave the big production to the guys with sliding head Swiss lathes I'll stick with smaller batches that are too small for them.
@@ricardo-iw9sq They do have a UK reseller. CNC Machine Tools Ltd
@@footpetaljones thanks might look into them, looking at the USA prices for the slant bed they don't seem to be a cheap machine in contrast to say a haas or xyz. I will at the moment cary on with my 1970 capstan emi mec as the job wouldn't make it pay if I up graded. 👍👍👍
In your opinion, which is the best 3-axis cnc milling machine brand in taiwan? thank!
Ycm, but anyways if you can afford better dont buy Taiwanese
How much ?
do you need to touch of the tools every time you switch them or can you select a tool and it will select that tool ofset?
8:50 min talks about templates in fusion that you set the tools too.
@@18voltmofo yeah but i dont think those have the offsets tho
I'm pretty sure the machine can store tool data.
Pathpilot (the control software that runs the lathe) stores the tool offset data by tool number. So you don't need to touch off the tools every time.
@@robertbeatty1 ok cool thanks
Does anyone know the power and torque curves so I can create an HSM Advisor profile? I asked Tormach back in November sometime and while we have had some pleasant email exchanges over the last month that information doesn't seem available or they are unwilling to share. I would have thought the information I am asking for would be pretty basic and figured out in the early stages of product development. I want to create some theoretical posts for parts I would commonly make before I commit and have a lathe shipped 1/2 way around the world.
Well, after I got talking to someone at Tormach that could help me I got the Power and Torque curves and created some HSM Advisor profiles which I uploaded.
Basciallly china minilathe with CNC slapped on....
1100mx videos???! :)
how much it cost?
$7-10 thousand.
Nicelittle lathe - any buy infos ?? special in Europe ??
"especially when you need round parts" i mean yeah thats what you use a lathe for xD
What happened to simple g codes and m codes?
Conversational programming is a pain in the ass!
Thats a fucking grill
God damn that's a tiny machine.
oof 8" swing and only 10" Z
@@alanbockelman lot bigger than a EMCO lol
Don’t need to have your retract value set that high
MADE IN CHINA
You describe tramming and centering the tool height as if that were all that is required to deploy a new tool. But how do you calibrate the X and Z locations of the tool edges? That must be a nightmare, and has to be completely redone (for the whole tool table catalog!) any time the quick-change post gets nudged. The final precision achieved is never better than the collective per-tool calibration across the whole catalog, so I imagine your boast of 0.001in repeatable tolerance is wildly optimistic. Dozens of calibrations to maintain, any one of which, going off, spoils the works. Grooving or threading up to a shoulder, with a slightly-off Z calibration, you're gonna crash. The lead screws aren't even linear to 0.001in, the QCTP tool clamping is more non-repeatable error source, so adding up all that uncertainty can't deliver consistent precision. Hard to believe you cut an M2 thread within all the tolerances (only +/- 0.00125in on pitch diameter).
Changing tools by hand is actually faster than any automatic changer. The problem is having to attend the machine full time. Eventually you get bored or absent-minded. Then you change-in the wrong tool. Or you hit the resume button out of habit before you realize you didn't change at all. Kaboom!
An optical tool setter inspection microscope attachment would be a very productive accessory, attachable to the headstock to provide a repeatable fixed datum of the tool edges.
A pointed 1/2-inch edge finder is cheap and precisely ground, no need to be improvising that pointed bar.
Basically everything you said regarding tool offsets is applicable to any toolroom CNC lathe running a QCTP. Nothing new here.
So long as the tool post the machine comes with is a high quality (repeatable) one, I don't really see how .001" repeatability is unreasonable.
And no, changing tools by hand is almost never faster than an automatic tool changer. What ATC's are you using?
The tool post isn't going to move "every time it gets nudged." You'd need to put a wrench in the bolt and loosen it for the top post to rotate. You're making it sound way harder than it is. Even with a manual lathe and dro, you can set tool positions very easily. And it has ball screws, not traditional lead screws.
@@tbdcreations5370 The QCTP shown is the ordinary type that is just clamped with a threaded post and nut. It has no repeatable position relative to the carriage and the machine coordinates. It shifts and turns anytime there is a false engagement or crash, losing the datum and requiring a laborious recalibration. Of course there is nothing new about it, it's what manual lathes have used for 50 years. The tool holder to QCTP repeatability is not the major problem; the problem is the QTCP to carriage fixation that isn't reliable, detectable, or repeatable. There is no removing this weakness, because the QCTP has to be the weak point that gives when there is a crash. If you fixed it in position more firmly, then something else would have to give or break when there is a crash, probably the leadscrews or bearings, disastrously, permanently degrading. In the manual days, this wasn't a problem because the operator's hands and intelligent senses on the cranks were the ultimate torque/force limiter. But CNC has no such sensory detectors or intelligence to limit self-damage from motion faults. Instead you're relying on the QCTP to be an emergency one-time clutch, and when you blow that fuse you're looking at an hour or more to replace the calibration and restore precision.
There's a train of mechanical imprecision sources: insert to tool, tool to holder, holder to QCTP, QCTP to carriage, carriage to {lead,ball}screw, screw linearity and rigidity, screw bearings, ways linearity and squareness, workholding, spindle. You add all those together in a machine of this type quality, you're never going to get repeatable precision of anything like 0.001in without cut-and-try intervention methods, and constant laborious tuning. Just to get a shop standard 0.003in requires constant care. Hope-and-try strategy will typically yield 0.005in or worse.
CNC is like self-driving cars, player pianos, factory bakeries. They can drive/play/produce better and relieve the tedium, but new problems emerge because there's no soul.
You can manually change a QCTP tool in a second or two. A turret ATC isn't any faster than that, and the stepper motor types can be quite ponderously slow. It's sort of a John Henry conceit, but then things didn't turn out well for him.
@@littlejackalo5326 The QCTP gets nudged whenever there's a false tool engagement or crash. That is a deliberate feature to "give way" and protect the rest of the motion mechanisms in the even of a crash. A proper CNC lathe contains torque and force limiters to stop a crash; this Tormach item does not have that, and relies on the QCTP weakness to provide some limiting. Still, the leadscrews and bearings are going to suffer some damage, loosen up, and lose linearity.
Ball screws are irrelevant. The cheap rolled type used in this machine are no better than leadscrews for linearity and repeatability, several 0.001in error over their travel. They're preloaded, not precision ground, which spoils the backlash characteristic and force capacity. They don't get you bidirectional engagement. The only significant benefit to ball screws in this machine is their better mechanical efficiency, but that would be better done by just using slightly bigger motors.
@@RichardKinch I guess I'd agree that this particular QCTP is probably more problematic than larger ones because of it's size (and because he mentioned issues with it in the video). But my point was QCTP have been used on many CNC lathes in the past and present. Trak toolroom lathes, Haas TL series lathes, ROMI Ezpaths. Typically what that means is you're limited to just a couple of tools to make setup time for a job reasonable. You make it sound like a big deal but it doesn't take more than 10 minutes to set the tools offsets for a handful of tools.
Clearly we're both just speculating on the precision of the machine, maybe in a future video they'll actually give more feedback on real-world repeatability.
Maybe you're much faster than I am, but I don't think I could reliably make a tool change on a QCTP faster than 3-4 seconds.
A turret ATC on a large CNC lathe can change tools in 1/4 second or so (or less). I've seen ATC's on little educational lathes like this one change tools in closer to 1 second.
But really, if you're trying to shave individual seconds off your cycle time then this is clearly not the lathe for that. That and there is no tool changer option for the 8L as far as I know.
So typical of youtube: I’ve been machining for 2.5 minutes, listen to me talk crap about a piece of crap while I try and sound like I’m an expert, but in reality, I’m just a typical cam-noob.
Cry more.
@@littlejackalo5326yeah crying... crying that this guy gets paid to make cnc lathe videos, while only knowing how to program with Cam... as if you’d buy one of those, when, for half the price you could get an old Mazak or similar that would do 100 times the work of that little piece of crap. Would be twice the size, twice as fast, way more powerful, way more accurate, and way easier to program. With the used market so accessible in the USA, i Cannot understand why anyone would ever buy a tormach, there is no reason I can think of to go for a hobby machine when you can get a professional machine for the same or less money. you’d buy a used professional quality machine any day of any week.
@@madaxe79 You are a loose cannon.
@@davidg4188 nah, just a guy that’s sick of people doing CNC or machining videos without being machinists. And giving bad advice as a result of them not being actually skilled at what they’re talking about... Tormach machines only exist for these people. The only people that would buy a Tormach are non-machinists who have too much money, no experience, and no idea... anyone who’s a machinist would buy a used industrial machine over a tormach any day, for half the price and twice the functionality. The problem is the idiots that watch CNC videos and think: that’s cool I wanna do that. So they go an buy a brand new Tormach. At the end of the day it’s up to you, but nobody is offering then the knowledge and wisdom to make an educated decision.
@@madaxe79 What machines do you own?