0:00 Intro 2:34 Weize 4:39 Bouge RV 6:02 Litime 500A Trolling Battery! 7:55 Siekon 600A Surge Battery 9:06 NOCO Engine Starters 12:20 Litime 460Ah! 14:31 Epoch 460Ah 500A Surge! Epoch (affiliate link): www.epochbatteries.com/?rfsn=7352625.50494d Litime: www.mobile-solarpower.com/lithium-batteries.html NOCO: amzn.to/3WoTg22 Siekon: amzn.to/46cSgSc Weize: bit.ly/44uqYW1 Bouge RV: www.bougerv.com/products/12v-100ah-lifepo4-battery?aff=will ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *Does off-grid solar confuse you?* Check out my DIY friendly website for solar system blueprints and current product recommendations, and so much more! www.mobile-solarpower.com *Join our DIY solar community* #1 largest solar forum on the internet for beginners and professionals alike: www.diysolarforum.com *Check out my Book* Best-selling and beginner-friendly guide to 12V off-grid solar! amzn.to/2Aj4dX4 *My Favorite Online Stores for DIY Solar Products:* *Signature Solar* Offgrid One-Stop-Shop. Best Value 48V LiFePO4, Victron and Offgrid Specific Heat Pumps: www.signaturesolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek *Current Connected* SOK, Victron, Mr.Cool Heatpumps and High Quality Components. Fantastic customer support: currentconnected.com/?ref=wp *Epoch Batteries* My favorite high-quality 12V battery: www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heated-bluetooth-victron-comms?rfsn=7352625.50494d *Litime* My favorite 12V budget battery!: www.litime.com/?ref=XBIA62RFcalHns *Watts247* Need international shipping for large batteries and big inverters? Check them out! watts247.com/?wpam_id=3 *Renogy* A classic 12V solar store that has been around for ages! DC to DC Chargers and more! renogy.sjv.io/n1VjXx *Rich Solar* Renogy's biggest competitor! Similar products, but at a better price: richsolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek *Battery Hookup* Cheap cell deals bit.ly/2mIxSqt 5% off code: diysolar *Contact Information:* I am NOT available for personal solar system consult! If you wish to contact me, this is my direct email: williamprowsediysolar@gmail.com Join the forum at diysolarforum.com/ if you wish to hang out with myself and others and talk about solar *FTC Disclosure Statement and Disclaimers:* Every video includes paid promotion or sponsorship. Some links on this youtube channel may be affiliate links. We may get paid if you buy something or take an action after clicking one of these. My videos are for educational purposes only. Information is subject to change/update at any time. Electricity is DANGEROUS and can kill. Be smart and use common sense :) DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, An affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com
@@WillProwse When you had originally talked about that, I went online and bought a 16'W x 27'L x 15'H VersaTube for cheap to throw up in my place in Vegas. I figured I would goof off and use it to play with batteries and build a bunch of ebikes and emotos to keep me out of the casino whenever I am in Vegas
@@MrMindlink *TH-cam wants to Correct your Comment:* octogenarian - *a person who Identifies as a person who is from 80 to 89 years old:* *FTH-cam & FJB !*
Before Will started tearing down and testing Lifepo4s all the budget companies lied about low temp protection, now they have actually included it. But it appears ALL the budget companies have been deceiving the consumer on so called over current protection. I would love to see a video testing fuses & breakers to see at what current they actual trigger at VS. Rated current.
Yes! Test the safety equipment! I don't know what to buy and get choice overload. I tend to not buy something when that happens, but I'd like to have some safety equipment in my setup.
actually i thing using a fuse or circuit breaker belongs on all hi current circuits not just relying on the electronics on the battery monitor device . but true if they advertise it it needs to be effective
Enjoying this video. I would love to see what it takes to shut down an SOK. I had an event this weekend that I was very thankful I had finally built a system with proper cable sizing and fusing. I decided to exercise my batteries as my camper had been on shore power for two months. I had the a/c going and then I decided to do dishes and then I microwaved some dinner. Well I started feeling warmth on the back of my legs. Turned around and realized the inverter cabinet was putting out the heat. Whoops! I was pulling 3500 watts out of a 4000 watt inverter on three 100 amp 12v batteries. I’ve never felt so careless on operating my system but it was an accident and everything worked as it should. My electric water heater kicked on after I washed the dishes and was using the microwave while the a/c was on. 😮can’t believe I forgot the electric water heater was on.
I have a sok 206ah battery and i think they are only 100amps but i have ran 300 amps with my welder through a 4kw 12v inverter. they work for a few seconds before they shutdown for a about 10 seconds then kick back in again. then me being a complete spud was disconnecting the inverter but still had the battery leads connected and accidently shorted the cables, made a very loud bang but the bms did its job and cut off instantly and that time it needed a jump start to turn back on again
I just wanted to take a moment to thank you for all the incredible content you’ve shared over the years. I live off-grid and run my house and barn entirely on solar power, and it’s all thanks to you. The book I bought from you and it got me started, and over the past three years, I’ve become a Victron expert! Getting three-phase to work was tricky, but it was worth it. Your new content is so important. I have a variety of batteries, including 10 CHINS 24V 200Ah and 20 CHINS 24V 100Ah. And so so many Trina panels . Would you mind throwing some of the chins on the death bench? I keep thinking the battery are gonna explode when you test them . im over here watching you test batteries like a scary movie Additionally, I’m working on an earth battery to heat my water heating floor system, and I need some panels to run the PTC sensors. I’m planning to buy some Aptos 400W panels for that project. Great review. Thank you so much for all your help and guidance!
Hey your comment made my day. That's great to hear 😁 oh yeah I need to get some chins. I donated all of mine but I can get some more. I wonder if the internals changed since last time I tested them. Oh the earth battery sounds awesome. Very cool
Well done, and thank you..! Next time around, please include terminal voltages so we can see what the BMS losses might be. Happy about the LiTime, bought one for my boat based on your testing...
Thanks! I think this is the first time I've been able to visualize over current. Before this video I thought: Oh I'm the battery didn't shut off? Awesome! ,,,,no, not awesome!
DUDE!!!! GREAT DIY setup with that test bank. Those resistors are so large they remind of these large caps that went into power supplies that dealt with, if I remember correctly 220 or 240Hz power that was produced for electronics on ships. The equipment used a higher frequency input voltage to make it easier on the rectifier and filter to make a smooth output.
Put a NOCO in my 1300 cc motorcycle. It lasted about 2 years and then failed. NOCO was true to their claim and replaced it after it was sent back to AZ, where their HQ is. EarthX is another, I think better lithium starting battery you might want to test. Love your site Will.
Indeed. The FETs can fail short. The breaker should be rated to break the native current the cells can output short circuit in addition to having a trip characteristic that suits the cables.
@@larrycox6614 Positive. On a boat that is mandatory by ABYC standards. Technically a fuse will blow regardless of if it is on the pos or neg terminal.500A means 500A at every point along the circuit. However if a fuse is on the negative and it blows the positive terminal is still energized. Since ground wires are also at 0V potential this means the potential to create a short to ground from the positive terminal which a fuse on negative can't prevent. There is no good reason to put a fuse on the negative side. Fuses on the positive and shunts on the negative. Switch should either disconnect the pos or both.
Very cool demonstration. Can tell that you planned this one out and put some real effort in to it. Creating content for YT isnt cheap. On your way to 1M, Congrats!
Gets me to thinking, did I fuse that positive wire to my inverter? Did I even fuse the 10 gauge positive wire to my 12 volt power distribution block? Damned if I can remember. Hope I was smart that day, and did it right.
I haven’t seen a build in a long while. You might setup a battery station with cement board chamber that has an emergency door to close up the battery 🪫 if they get too hot 🥵! Thumbs up 👍
I love the set up. But I would suggest you have a few of the resistors designed for different increments of amps. 30, 40, 50, 60, 60, 60... This would allow you to test exactly* 100 amps for example instead of being limited to increments of 60.
1500 watts is the typical upper end for a wall outlet space heater. Glance the amps (multiply voltage) or glance the wattage from the shunt on the tablet.
I'm SO happy to see the Noco batteries on here. In the Jet Ski community we have finally found a battery that seems sealed and WORKS. PLEASE more content on them! As always, your videos are great, thank you!
Great resistor bank. reminds me of the pop mech diy Pb-SO4 battery testers - use 5-10 ft of steel package banding for a load resistor. you could get those resistors dull red without significantly damaging them to test 4-800 amp starter current battery loads!
Excellent presentation. Thank you. This is some really good stuff. You should consider adding a 250w and 500w resistor to your setup so that you can test with a bit more granularity. You can feed the two smaller units to get a closer idea as to exactly at what load the issues start occurring.
Keep in mind most starter batteries are designed for vehicle starts, so loads of less than 3 seconds. Great setup! Those giant resistors are awesome! If you want to do much more current you'll need to lower your cable length and increase the gauge. The resistance of your wires start becoming your limiting factor!
Great testing! You will probably have problems with your main battery switch as it looks like a standard disconnect switch with a sliding copper contact. They're usually designed to be switched unloaded so when making contact under load you tend to get arc damage on the contacts. Inverter in-rush currents are particularly bad -I've seen a switch physically welded in position on a 24V system. There seems to be anecdotal evidence of mosfets failing with extreme currents, I believe they refer to avalanche failure after one goes. Bottom line is that appropriate fusing seems to be regarded as essential for safety.
@@jimegan7077 For the main switch a solenoid would be a much better option -very fast acting and typically with silver contacts. Battery switches like what Will used have much slower operation and are usually plain copper, resulting in more opportunity for arcing. There are probably all sorts of industrial options but in the marine world Blue Sea Systems ML Solenoids have proven very reliable for this type of application but from memory only are rated to around 500A max
Always, always use an external overcurrent protection, you never know when the internal protection will fail, it's also easier to just reset vs connecting a charger to wake the battery
I got tired of buying lead acid batteries every year or two for my zero turn mower. I bought a NOCO 7 or 8ah for it a couple years back, so far no problems. Cranks a 36HP Briggs Vanguard easily. Time will tell.......
You always need to add a fuse to protect your wire. That's what the fuse is for. However if the battery needs protection too, you need to think about that when choosing the fuse. Also think about how you want to protect it. Overheating due to under gauge cabling, or protecting a circuit. The latter needs short fuses, the former can use slow blows. Anyway, I hope to see a seplos V2 BMS on that bench, although I am told it has been tested. At least over current or over voltage charging works fine: it really disconnects the battery and inserts a load and battery protection to limit the over voltage to 56V and to limit the charge current to 10A. The over voltage I found out when the BMS was reporting a 56V internally, but externally it really had 59V. And that was due to my stupid mistake not checking my full config and realizing too late that the victron mppt was not controlled by the GX, and the defaults of the victron mppt were a bit peculiar. Still amazed about how rock solid this all works together. The only down time I had in my offgrid installation is when I finally uploaded the correct configuration, and when I added battery boxes.
It would have been nice to see you test out a chin's battery. I've purchased four of them over the last couple of years because of your videos here. I have a 300 amp fuse/circuit breaker hooked up to two 300 ah Smart batteries for my RV. It powers my air conditioner that's why I needed the bigger circuit breaker and everything works amazing! It powers my AC unit in my camper!
Litime Leetime, tomato tomawto whatever. Thanks for putting these highly rated batteries thru this test! Once again excellent info to use when making purchasing decisions! Also good to know that those Siekon batteries and the low price were too good to be true since their claims are garbage. Why are companies not getting the message that Will's on the job to inform Joe Public?
Which is better to add for the protection a circuit breaker or a fuse? On the Epoch specifically if using 4/0 wire what size fuse or breaker would be best?
My mmg lithium motorcycle battery is a beast, and it's so light I thought they didn't put internals in when I first picked it up. It has lasted a long time, too.
I performed similar tests on epoch lithium. The over current protection is essentially an integral equation. You can pull x amps for y seconds. For the higher the value of x, the lower the value of y you will get.
Will - Thanks for producing this video. I have 3 Seikon 100a batteries I'm going to install in my small camper. I'm using 3 terminal fuses (125a) so each would be restricted accordingly at the battery. I have a 300a circuit breaker. What's your thought on adding that downstream of the on/off switch at the Victron Distributor? Thanks - Russell, Carson City
Hope you'll test AOLITHIUM. I bought 3 after looking a review from you. Just using them since 4 months. So far, it's good. Hope to see this battery in this kind of test. Thanks for everything.
These are great tests! It definitely helps inform people, particularly about the maximum amps that several batteries in parallel might deliver since the fuse I.R. has to be able to handle that current. -Matt
Noco is the bomb,use them on all my motorcycles and use one on my boat ti run my fans,love your channel I learn alot, thanks so much for all you do, always in my prayers 🙏 love you
Great information, Thankyou Will 👌 As a qualified but retired Electrician i would always install a slightly smaller Fuse/Circuit Breaker than the maximum rated output of any battery or Electrical DIY project (usually 75% - 85% of max current rating) no matter what protection the manufacturer states. I would much rather replace an external fuse (easy access) than potential replace a internal BMS or internal Fuse if a fault and/or component faliure may occur. I believe we all put to much trust in modern electrical specifications, load ratings etc., at the end of the day its us, the consumers who deal with the consequences if a fault occurs. So what im saying is always include your own form of circuit protection, ideally atleast 2 to 3 forms of protection. Eg. Fuses/ Circuit Breakers, Temperture Sensors, Low/high voltage alarm, remote cell log information screen (close to living area or in a high visabilty area ) An Example : I run my own 20S cell log screen on my ebike showing individual cell voltage in real time "under load" as an additional fail safe example to my own circuit breaker & fuses. All 22 x Balance leads feeding the 20S screen is hard wired & "individual fused (fast blow ceramic fuses). Note 20S battery is also Lifepo4 A123 High Discharge Pouch cells with my Ebike current demand way less than what cells are claimed to deliver. (Safety & planning is Key 🔑) Great Testing & content Will, interesting & informative as always. 😊🙏
Take it from an old power supply test engineer, those wire wound resistors are great for testing batteries. Don't use them for switching power supplies. 😮 In my experience, NOCO makes high quality battery chargers and jump starters. I am waiting for one to let the magic smoke out of the MOSFETs!
Very good testing. The datasheet guaranties it can handle 200A @3s. It did not say it will trip at 200A. Triplevel could be any level. That's why external protection is good.
That was a good test. Worth mentioning though, a battery that "says" good for 200 amps out and 300 for 5 seconds is not saying it has high current protection. Rather it is saying the user or system designer should avoid situations that exceed those values. That is there should be external protection. Having said that, adding over current protection to the BMS ends up being trivial so why not? A manufacture that adds over current protection will probably have fewer returns in the long run.... except that the large majority of these batteries are used to gain longer running time rather than peak output current. So it matters for a starting battery and other short term high draw situations. I think those who have watched a few of your videos would already have figured out that those kinds of uses will not work well with bottom dollar batteries. I wonder how many of those high current protection circuits are just a temperature sensor close to the switching components or just close to one of the main traces.
I just bought a Kikusui PLZ300W on ebay. It's a 300w current regulating load. It can handle up to 60amps and up to 60v. Not that it's needed but this would be a cool addition to your load bank allowing you to dial the current in to a fraction of an amp.
Nice work, excellent topic and implementation but........ What would happen if you test a battery and a cell can't take the load and heats, smokes etc. I would suggest some form of enclosure for the battery during high amps testing. On the off chance.....
I haven't watched all the videos yet, but I'm getting there. I had a question anybody can answer: I see in this video you tested a BougeRV battery. Is there a video of testing of the BougeRV CIGS 200W flexible solar panel? Thinking of using them on an RV and have seen another TH-camr testing them, but wanted your input as to how it compares to what you have tested. Great channel, by the way. Always enjoyable.
Great videos - I've learned so much watching your channel! My question is do think it's better to buy a battery with a solid over current shutdown vs buying a cheaper battery like the Siekon and use a breaker or fuse? My application would be 4x100ah 12V in an RV. I'm not sure how complex or costly a proper breaker or fuse would be.
NOCO jump starters are the best I've ever used too. Have yet to be disappointed by anything they've made that I've tried. Except cost, it hurts sometimes
Super cool video brother, batteries do make me nervous in general but capacitors downright scare me.. I knew a guy that made a rotary phase converter so he could turn Two-phase into three phase, in He used capacitors at the main switch, when the capacitors exploded I thought we were the building was coming down lol. Now I'm always very suspect of capacitors in being close proximity to them. I know you know what you're doing. But yeah hard to forget
For some cheap 12V batteries it‘s quite clear: if you do have a 100Ah battery using a 100A bms and the BMS does not shut off after 5sec of higher current, thats no good ;). You should make sure that you do not draw more power when using those batteries, currents greater than 1C might harm most LiFePO4 cells when regularly applied for longer periods of time. Anyway: great idea 👍.
For the starter batteries you might need lower resistance. Your load is designed for 500A at 12V. But during cranking, voltage could be lower. The battery might be rated for 500A at 7V. What voltage did you measure on the busbars during the test.
On my solar 12 volt batteries that I built 2 years ago, they were rated for a 3c rate. So 100 amp/hr rating they should be able to handle 300 amps each. So I fused each battery with 125 amp fuses just to be safe. Having a single 2,000 watt sine wave inverter on it along with a good size stereo setup on it, it has never popped the fuses.
I was going to suggest to you doing a video with high power resistors on normal home solar panels to meet the requirements of some of the solar generators. For example getting 60v 27a for the Anker Solix F3800 is giving people headaches. You may be able to over-panel a little and use a high power resistor to meet the input requirements. Waste of power, but in an emergency situation you could hijack some of your home panels to power your backup.
Hey Will, awesome video! do you have any links to purchase some of that equipment you’re using, mainly the resistors, switch, bus bars, cables, and that lift you used to get the big battery on the bench. I’ve found tons of that stuff on Amazon but the quality is hit and miss (especially with things like breakers and switches).
For a cheap load resistor, find some scrap house wire. Example: 14awg copper is 2.525 ohm per 1000 ft. So 40 ft of wire is 2.525*40/1000 = 0.101 ohms, and across 12v that gives 12/0.101ohms = 119 Amps. Four of those in parallel (using 14/3 + ground) would draw 4*119 = 476 Amps. If it gets too hot, try a water bath. Can solder up shorter pieces taken from the trash.
I am curious. Were those Noco batteries cutting out from over current? Or was the battery voltage dropping too low and triggering the low voltage cutout
0:00 Intro
2:34 Weize
4:39 Bouge RV
6:02 Litime 500A Trolling Battery!
7:55 Siekon 600A Surge Battery
9:06 NOCO Engine Starters
12:20 Litime 460Ah!
14:31 Epoch 460Ah 500A Surge!
Epoch (affiliate link): www.epochbatteries.com/?rfsn=7352625.50494d
Litime: www.mobile-solarpower.com/lithium-batteries.html
NOCO: amzn.to/3WoTg22
Siekon: amzn.to/46cSgSc
Weize: bit.ly/44uqYW1
Bouge RV: www.bougerv.com/products/12v-100ah-lifepo4-battery?aff=will
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*Does off-grid solar confuse you?*
Check out my DIY friendly website for solar system blueprints and current product recommendations, and so much more!
www.mobile-solarpower.com
*Join our DIY solar community*
#1 largest solar forum on the internet for beginners and professionals alike:
www.diysolarforum.com
*Check out my Book*
Best-selling and beginner-friendly guide to 12V off-grid solar!
amzn.to/2Aj4dX4
*My Favorite Online Stores for DIY Solar Products:*
*Signature Solar*
Offgrid One-Stop-Shop. Best Value 48V LiFePO4, Victron and Offgrid Specific Heat Pumps:
www.signaturesolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek
*Current Connected*
SOK, Victron, Mr.Cool Heatpumps and High Quality Components. Fantastic customer support:
currentconnected.com/?ref=wp
*Epoch Batteries*
My favorite high-quality 12V battery:
www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heated-bluetooth-victron-comms?rfsn=7352625.50494d
*Litime*
My favorite 12V budget battery!:
www.litime.com/?ref=XBIA62RFcalHns
*Watts247*
Need international shipping for large batteries and big inverters? Check them out!
watts247.com/?wpam_id=3
*Renogy*
A classic 12V solar store that has been around for ages! DC to DC Chargers and more!
renogy.sjv.io/n1VjXx
*Rich Solar*
Renogy's biggest competitor! Similar products, but at a better price:
richsolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek
*Battery Hookup*
Cheap cell deals
bit.ly/2mIxSqt
5% off code: diysolar
*Contact Information:*
I am NOT available for personal solar system consult! If you wish to contact me, this is my direct email: williamprowsediysolar@gmail.com
Join the forum at diysolarforum.com/ if you wish to hang out with myself and others and talk about solar
*FTC Disclosure Statement and Disclaimers:*
Every video includes paid promotion or sponsorship. Some links on this youtube channel may be affiliate links. We may get paid if you buy something or take an action after clicking one of these. My videos are for educational purposes only. Information is subject to change/update at any time. Electricity is DANGEROUS and can kill. Be smart and use common sense :) DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program,
An affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com
Nice! Did you ever finish your shop building?
Still working on that daily haha it's a huge project @@anthonysuarez7416
@@WillProwse When you had originally talked about that, I went online and bought a 16'W x 27'L x 15'H VersaTube for cheap to throw up in my place in Vegas. I figured I would goof off and use it to play with batteries and build a bunch of ebikes and emotos to keep me out of the casino whenever I am in Vegas
Cool test rig, thanks for the video! One suggestion, use the timer on your phone, instead of just counting.
@@extendedp1 I actually counted with the cameras timer so it is accurate haha but yes I need to do that!
As an old retired scientist (octogenarian) I want to commend you young man. Your channel is excellent! Thankyou
octogenarian - a person who is from 80 to 89 years old:
@@MrMindlink
*TH-cam wants to Correct your Comment:*
octogenarian - *a person who Identifies as a person who is from 80 to 89 years old:*
*FTH-cam & FJB !*
Do people call you Doc Ock? 🤣😂😂🤣
I love seeing folks from older generations actively engaging in technology - it's awesome!
I enjoy how much Will enjoys doing these videos. 😊. I am also happy how many people get so much from these videos. 66 yrs young 😅
Before Will started tearing down and testing Lifepo4s all the budget companies lied about low temp protection, now they have actually included it. But it appears ALL the budget companies have been deceiving the consumer on so called over current protection.
I would love to see a video testing fuses & breakers to see at what current they actual trigger at VS. Rated current.
sounds like a good video!
Yes! Test the safety equipment! I don't know what to buy and get choice overload. I tend to not buy something when that happens, but I'd like to have some safety equipment in my setup.
And cables. Some of these Chinese cables look really good but just have very thick insulation
@@Mylifelovingit Copper coated aluminum are the worse wire I've come across.
actually i thing using a fuse or circuit breaker belongs on all hi current circuits not just relying on the electronics on the battery monitor device . but true if they advertise it it needs to be effective
Will is such a nice guy . He sneezed. Then blessed himself. And thanked himself. All in less than a second.
That’s from his RV living days.
It's from his being autistic days.
@@TheContentExchange don’t be a dick.
Hahaha
You knocked it out of the park with this testing procedure! Thank you for doing stuff like this for us.
We love the Epoch battery, we have the exact same one in our RV. It can run our A/C and Microwave at the same time with no issues. 🐾🐾
this reminds me of back when schools were useful and had their cute little mock ups to explain things
Those books got banned
Too much science and not enough fantasy in them?
that test rig is nuts. some actual science going on here.
NOCO made really really high quality jump start packs before ever making starting batteries.
I've started a V10 gas engine with a noco GB40 on several occasions. It's a struggle and it takes ever little bit of power it has, but it does it.
I love my NOCO jumper. Super easy and convenient at an inconvenient time.
Still have my NOCO jumper pack, it's my best friend for long solo offroading trips
Best line: "and each one is rated for 1000 watts...", and that grin. ;)
😁😁😁
@@WillProwse ⚡😎☕
Will, you should this test on some of the common breakers and fuses we might use to see if they will do there job.
Great idea
yes!, allong with testing voltage sag between a few different brand 100ah 12v batteries.
Enjoying this video. I would love to see what it takes to shut down an SOK. I had an event this weekend that I was very thankful I had finally built a system with proper cable sizing and fusing. I decided to exercise my batteries as my camper had been on shore power for two months. I had the a/c going and then I decided to do dishes and then I microwaved some dinner. Well I started feeling warmth on the back of my legs. Turned around and realized the inverter cabinet was putting out the heat. Whoops! I was pulling 3500 watts out of a 4000 watt inverter on three 100 amp 12v batteries. I’ve never felt so careless on operating my system but it was an accident and everything worked as it should. My electric water heater kicked on after I washed the dishes and was using the microwave while the a/c was on. 😮can’t believe I forgot the electric water heater was on.
I have a sok 206ah battery and i think they are only 100amps but i have ran 300 amps with my welder through a 4kw 12v inverter. they work for a few seconds before they shutdown for a about 10 seconds then kick back in again. then me being a complete spud was disconnecting the inverter but still had the battery leads connected and accidently shorted the cables, made a very loud bang but the bms did its job and cut off instantly and that time it needed a jump start to turn back on again
@@Mattvbro thanks for the info. Much appreciated.
Give Will a thumbs up for this worthwhile content. Peace to you.
I have that small noco battery on my mower, so far so good, it was neat to see it tested.
This is awesome, glad to see this kind of test implemented, you actually built a very similar setup to mine testing vapes for a living, congrats!!!
Great video, and thank you for revealing the lack of over-current protection. Just scary with LFP's low internal resistance.
I just wanted to take a moment to thank you for all the incredible content you’ve shared over the years. I live off-grid and run my house and barn entirely on solar power, and it’s all thanks to you. The book I bought from you and it got me started, and over the past three years, I’ve become a Victron expert! Getting three-phase to work was tricky, but it was worth it.
Your new content is so important. I have a variety of batteries, including 10 CHINS 24V 200Ah and 20 CHINS 24V 100Ah. And so so many Trina panels . Would you mind throwing some of the chins on the death bench? I keep thinking the battery are gonna explode when you test them . im over here watching you test batteries like a scary movie
Additionally, I’m working on an earth battery to heat my water heating floor system, and I need some panels to run the PTC sensors. I’m planning to buy some Aptos 400W panels for that project. Great review.
Thank you so much for all your help and guidance!
Hey your comment made my day. That's great to hear 😁 oh yeah I need to get some chins. I donated all of mine but I can get some more. I wonder if the internals changed since last time I tested them. Oh the earth battery sounds awesome. Very cool
Next, Will is gonna be testing fire extinguishers! 😂
😂😅
Let's hope not but he's in the serious danger zone with this testing. And he does have fire extinguishers handy.
Like a kid in a sweetshop. Thanks for all your testing, makes choosing easier for people who can only afford to buy once.
Well done, and thank you..! Next time around, please include terminal voltages so we can see what the BMS losses might be. Happy about the LiTime, bought one for my boat based on your testing...
Looks like a Frankenstein set-up! Respect!
Will needs a sketchy assistant and a Jacobs Ladder lol .
I've used the NOCO batteries in my race cars for the past few years with great results. I'm really curious to see your teardown video!
Absolutely love the enthusiasm and excitement you have for these tests. Looks like this was a fun setup to build!
Thanks! I think this is the first time I've been able to visualize over current. Before this video I thought: Oh I'm the battery didn't shut off? Awesome! ,,,,no, not awesome!
Homie Will getting excited over batteries sparks joy.
Will is a savage. He's so nice to do this. I think he's really a generous fella at heart.
I’ve been looking at the NOCO battery for my snowmobile but was waiting for a test of sorts before buying. Looking forward to the opening of it.
DUDE!!!!
GREAT DIY setup with that test bank. Those resistors are so large they remind of these large caps that went into power supplies that dealt with, if I remember correctly 220 or 240Hz power that was produced for electronics on ships. The equipment used a higher frequency input voltage to make it easier on the rectifier and filter to make a smooth output.
Put a NOCO in my 1300 cc motorcycle. It lasted about 2 years and then failed. NOCO was true to their claim and replaced it after it was sent back to AZ, where their HQ is. EarthX is another, I think better lithium starting battery you might want to test. Love your site Will.
You should always install a fuse or a breaker, regardless of battery’s own protection. Rated for the wire capacity, not the battery rating.
Indeed. The FETs can fail short. The breaker should be rated to break the native current the cells can output short circuit in addition to having a trip characteristic that suits the cables.
Does it matter which side the fuse goes on... positive or negative?
@@larrycox6614 it does not, but it’s customary to put it on positive side.
I agree
@@larrycox6614 Positive. On a boat that is mandatory by ABYC standards. Technically a fuse will blow regardless of if it is on the pos or neg terminal.500A means 500A at every point along the circuit. However if a fuse is on the negative and it blows the positive terminal is still energized. Since ground wires are also at 0V potential this means the potential to create a short to ground from the positive terminal which a fuse on negative can't prevent. There is no good reason to put a fuse on the negative side. Fuses on the positive and shunts on the negative. Switch should either disconnect the pos or both.
Very cool demonstration. Can tell that you planned this one out and put some real effort in to it. Creating content for YT isnt cheap. On your way to 1M, Congrats!
Probably a good idea to add your own fuse anyway, unless you are testing over current protection that is
Gets me to thinking, did I fuse that positive wire to my inverter?
Did I even fuse the 10 gauge positive wire to my 12 volt power distribution block?
Damned if I can remember.
Hope I was smart that day, and did it right.
I haven’t seen a build in a long while.
You might setup a battery station with cement board chamber that has an emergency door to close up the battery 🪫 if they get too hot 🥵! Thumbs up 👍
I love the set up. But I would suggest you have a few of the resistors designed for different increments of amps. 30, 40, 50, 60, 60, 60... This would allow you to test exactly* 100 amps for example instead of being limited to increments of 60.
I was thinking the same, absolutely agree. Need to find some
If you're gonna go to that extreme, use a couple of variable resistors
That’s absolutely genius. I’m curious on how warm it gets in the room when they are on.
warm lol
1500 watts is the typical upper end for a wall outlet space heater. Glance the amps (multiply voltage) or glance the wattage from the shunt on the tablet.
If a Human is 100 W then each resistor is around 10 humans. All active would as warm as 100 people in the room.
I'm SO happy to see the Noco batteries on here. In the Jet Ski community we have finally found a battery that seems sealed and WORKS. PLEASE more content on them! As always, your videos are great, thank you!
Great resistor bank. reminds me of the pop mech diy Pb-SO4 battery testers - use 5-10 ft of steel package banding for a load resistor. you could get those resistors dull red without significantly damaging them to test 4-800 amp starter current battery loads!
This is fantastically useful, thank you. I wasn't sure about fusing my litime, but obviously will now!
Excellent presentation. Thank you. This is some really good stuff. You should consider adding a 250w and 500w resistor to your setup so that you can test with a bit more granularity. You can feed the two smaller units to get a closer idea as to exactly at what load the issues start occurring.
Keep in mind most starter batteries are designed for vehicle starts, so loads of less than 3 seconds.
Great setup! Those giant resistors are awesome! If you want to do much more current you'll need to lower your cable length and increase the gauge. The resistance of your wires start becoming your limiting factor!
12:45 haha evil genius right there :D Let's raise the current! Love it mate
Always enjoy learning from your videos Will!
As someone who is still a greenhorn in building battery systems, I hope to finally understand it all.
WOW I bet that took some time.,... personaly i wouldn't want to be that close to a battery when testing amp loads 😃
Great testing! You will probably have problems with your main battery switch as it looks like a standard disconnect switch with a sliding copper contact. They're usually designed to be switched unloaded so when making contact under load you tend to get arc damage on the contacts. Inverter in-rush currents are particularly bad -I've seen a switch physically welded in position on a 24V system.
There seems to be anecdotal evidence of mosfets failing with extreme currents, I believe they refer to avalanche failure after one goes. Bottom line is that appropriate fusing seems to be regarded as essential for safety.
Looks like an opportunity for Will to test another component in a PV/LiFePO4 system. As the Project Farm channel says, "We're going to test that!"
@@jimegan7077 For the main switch a solenoid would be a much better option -very fast acting and typically with silver contacts. Battery switches like what Will used have much slower operation and are usually plain copper, resulting in more opportunity for arcing. There are probably all sorts of industrial options but in the marine world Blue Sea Systems ML Solenoids have proven very reliable for this type of application but from memory only are rated to around 500A max
Always, always use an external overcurrent protection, you never know when the internal protection will fail, it's also easier to just reset vs connecting a charger to wake the battery
I got tired of buying lead acid batteries every year or two for my zero turn mower. I bought a NOCO 7 or 8ah for it a couple years back, so far no problems. Cranks a 36HP Briggs Vanguard easily. Time will tell.......
Holy cow! Yeah if that thing fails let me know. that is awesome
I have one in my rzr. Cranks great but the bms seems to kill it if it sits more than a few weeks.
I did the same works great on my Skag with 28hp Kawasaki . The lawn tractor batteries are junk.
I put a battery disconnect on mine, battery lasts a lot longer now. It's a very simple system, but something draws it down.
@@dylanforney780Scag cheetah with an old bike battery A 10 year old Odessey that keeps working year after year.
You always need to add a fuse to protect your wire. That's what the fuse is for. However if the battery needs protection too, you need to think about that when choosing the fuse. Also think about how you want to protect it. Overheating due to under gauge cabling, or protecting a circuit. The latter needs short fuses, the former can use slow blows.
Anyway, I hope to see a seplos V2 BMS on that bench, although I am told it has been tested. At least over current or over voltage charging works fine: it really disconnects the battery and inserts a load and battery protection to limit the over voltage to 56V and to limit the charge current to 10A. The over voltage I found out when the BMS was reporting a 56V internally, but externally it really had 59V. And that was due to my stupid mistake not checking my full config and realizing too late that the victron mppt was not controlled by the GX, and the defaults of the victron mppt were a bit peculiar.
Still amazed about how rock solid this all works together. The only down time I had in my offgrid installation is when I finally uploaded the correct configuration, and when I added battery boxes.
It would have been nice to see you test out a chin's battery. I've purchased four of them over the last couple of years because of your videos here. I have a 300 amp fuse/circuit breaker hooked up to two 300 ah Smart batteries for my RV. It powers my air conditioner that's why I needed the bigger circuit breaker and everything works amazing! It powers my AC unit in my camper!
This detailed information you are providing "could save people's lives sleeping in campervans with no over current protection, well done Will
Very informative and well demonstrated. I go with circuit breakers…instead of leaving it up to the BMS.
awesome video, man. Thanks for taking the time to build that test jig.
Nice heater 😁 I could use one of those too.
Litime Leetime, tomato tomawto whatever. Thanks for putting these highly rated batteries thru this test! Once again excellent info to use when making purchasing decisions! Also good to know that those Siekon batteries and the low price were too good to be true since their claims are garbage. Why are companies not getting the message that Will's on the job to inform Joe Public?
Which is better to add for the protection a circuit breaker or a fuse? On the Epoch specifically if using 4/0 wire what size fuse or breaker would be best?
My mmg lithium motorcycle battery is a beast, and it's so light I thought they didn't put internals in when I first picked it up. It has lasted a long time, too.
Will, your excitement is contiguous! Even I was getting excited to.
NOCO just came out with some deep cycle/starter batteries that look awesome!
Awesome test, I hope the companies are paying attention of those who claim over current protection have now been exposed
thanks again
I performed similar tests on epoch lithium. The over current protection is essentially an integral equation. You can pull x amps for y seconds. For the higher the value of x, the lower the value of y you will get.
Best inverter for off grid? I got 4 6500kw sig solar not yet hooked up.
Eg4
Will - Thanks for producing this video. I have 3 Seikon 100a batteries I'm going to install in my small camper. I'm using 3 terminal fuses (125a) so each would be restricted accordingly at the battery. I have a 300a circuit breaker. What's your thought on adding that downstream of the on/off switch at the Victron Distributor? Thanks - Russell, Carson City
Hope you'll test AOLITHIUM. I bought 3 after looking a review from you. Just using them since 4 months. So far, it's good. Hope to see this battery in this kind of test. Thanks for everything.
These are great tests! It definitely helps inform people, particularly about the maximum amps that several batteries in parallel might deliver since the fuse I.R. has to be able to handle that current.
-Matt
Noco is the bomb,use them on all my motorcycles and use one on my boat ti run my fans,love your channel I learn alot, thanks so much for all you do, always in my prayers 🙏 love you
Great information, Thankyou Will 👌
As a qualified but retired Electrician i would always install a slightly smaller Fuse/Circuit Breaker than the maximum rated output of any battery or Electrical DIY project (usually 75% - 85% of max current rating) no matter what protection the manufacturer states. I would much rather replace an external fuse (easy access) than potential replace a internal BMS or internal Fuse if a fault and/or component faliure may occur.
I believe we all put to much trust in modern electrical specifications, load ratings etc., at the end of the day its us, the consumers who deal with the consequences if a fault occurs. So what im saying is always include your own form of circuit protection, ideally atleast 2 to 3 forms of protection. Eg. Fuses/ Circuit Breakers, Temperture Sensors, Low/high voltage alarm, remote cell log information screen (close to living area or in a high visabilty area )
An Example : I run my own 20S cell log screen on my ebike showing individual cell voltage in real time "under load" as an additional fail safe example to my own circuit breaker & fuses. All 22 x Balance leads feeding the 20S screen is hard wired & "individual fused (fast blow ceramic fuses).
Note 20S battery is also Lifepo4 A123 High Discharge Pouch cells with my Ebike current demand way less than what cells are claimed to deliver. (Safety & planning is Key 🔑)
Great Testing & content Will, interesting & informative as always. 😊🙏
Nice build.
Take it from an old power supply test engineer, those wire wound resistors are great for testing batteries. Don't use them for switching power supplies. 😮
In my experience, NOCO makes high quality battery chargers and jump starters.
I am waiting for one to let the magic smoke out of the MOSFETs!
Very good testing. The datasheet guaranties it can handle 200A @3s. It did not say it will trip at 200A. Triplevel could be any level. That's why external protection is good.
That was a good test. Worth mentioning though, a battery that "says" good for 200 amps out and 300 for 5 seconds is not saying it has high current protection. Rather it is saying the user or system designer should avoid situations that exceed those values. That is there should be external protection. Having said that, adding over current protection to the BMS ends up being trivial so why not? A manufacture that adds over current protection will probably have fewer returns in the long run.... except that the large majority of these batteries are used to gain longer running time rather than peak output current. So it matters for a starting battery and other short term high draw situations. I think those who have watched a few of your videos would already have figured out that those kinds of uses will not work well with bottom dollar batteries. I wonder how many of those high current protection circuits are just a temperature sensor close to the switching components or just close to one of the main traces.
I just bought a Kikusui PLZ300W on ebay. It's a 300w current regulating load. It can handle up to 60amps and up to 60v. Not that it's needed but this would be a cool addition to your load bank allowing you to dial the current in to a fraction of an amp.
I forgot to add, I really enjoy your videos. Great work!
You have a nice winter heater there with the resistors !
Nice work, excellent topic and implementation but........ What would happen if you test a battery and a cell can't take the load and heats, smokes etc. I would suggest some form of enclosure for the battery during high amps testing. On the off chance.....
Brilliant Test... I like how proud you are of the setup.
I haven't watched all the videos yet, but I'm getting there. I had a question anybody can answer: I see in this video you tested a BougeRV battery. Is there a video of testing of the BougeRV CIGS 200W flexible solar panel? Thinking of using them on an RV and have seen another TH-camr testing them, but wanted your input as to how it compares to what you have tested. Great channel, by the way. Always enjoyable.
Great videos - I've learned so much watching your channel! My question is do think it's better to buy a battery with a solid over current shutdown vs buying a cheaper battery like the Siekon and use a breaker or fuse? My application would be 4x100ah 12V in an RV. I'm not sure how complex or costly a proper breaker or fuse would be.
NOCO jump starters are the best I've ever used too. Have yet to be disappointed by anything they've made that I've tried. Except cost, it hurts sometimes
I was waiting for a battery or wires to explode or melt. Very cool video. Great job on the tests.
The new Litime 230ah LTCP 12v has over-current protection. Hobo-Tech tested it. BMS worked like it should.
Wow this thumbnail looks exciting. Let's go!
Thank you! For years I have counted on you for good info. I am glad you keep improving things!
Super cool video brother, batteries do make me nervous in general but capacitors downright scare me..
I knew a guy that made a rotary phase converter so he could turn Two-phase into three phase, in He used capacitors at the main switch, when the capacitors exploded I thought we were the building was coming down lol.
Now I'm always very suspect of capacitors in being close proximity to them. I know you know what you're doing. But yeah hard to forget
Can you do a video on selecting the proper fuse
For some cheap 12V batteries it‘s quite clear: if you do have a 100Ah battery using a 100A bms and the BMS does not shut off after 5sec of higher current, thats no good ;). You should make sure that you do not draw more power when using those batteries, currents greater than 1C might harm most LiFePO4 cells when regularly applied for longer periods of time.
Anyway: great idea 👍.
Great video. Curious as to where you purchased the resistors. I am looking to build a load bank to test generators. Take care.
What a great video! I would have been crapping my pants with 500+ amps going into that load.
For the starter batteries you might need lower resistance. Your load is designed for 500A at 12V. But during cranking, voltage could be lower. The battery might be rated for 500A at 7V. What voltage did you measure on the busbars during the test.
Thanks again for the awesome review! Rich Solar has some new battery products, and I would love to see a review of them, thanks.
Thanks Will, another fine and very interesting video, you sure do stay on top of things! Nice troubleshooting board setup! Looking for the next video!
On my solar 12 volt batteries that I built 2 years ago, they were rated for a 3c rate. So 100 amp/hr rating they should be able to handle 300 amps each. So I fused each battery with 125 amp fuses just to be safe. Having a single 2,000 watt sine wave inverter on it along with a good size stereo setup on it, it has never popped the fuses.
Would love to see if my Chins 12v 200ah has actual over current protection. Thank you for the great testing that you do!
I was going to suggest to you doing a video with high power resistors on normal home solar panels to meet the requirements of some of the solar generators. For example getting 60v 27a for the Anker Solix F3800 is giving people headaches. You may be able to over-panel a little and use a high power resistor to meet the input requirements. Waste of power, but in an emergency situation you could hijack some of your home panels to power your backup.
Totally Cool Project. Great info and putting the manufactures on notice!
Hey Will, awesome video! do you have any links to purchase some of that equipment you’re using, mainly the resistors, switch, bus bars, cables, and that lift you used to get the big battery on the bench. I’ve found tons of that stuff on Amazon but the quality is hit and miss (especially with things like breakers and switches).
Could you provide a parts list with links?
Thank you for all your testing
it is very much appreciated
Thank Again
Nice load testing rig! I can see many product face offs being possible with this.
For a cheap load resistor, find some scrap house wire. Example: 14awg copper is 2.525 ohm per 1000 ft. So 40 ft of wire is 2.525*40/1000 = 0.101 ohms, and across 12v that gives 12/0.101ohms = 119 Amps. Four of those in parallel (using 14/3 + ground) would draw 4*119 = 476 Amps. If it gets too hot, try a water bath. Can solder up shorter pieces taken from the trash.
Do you plan to test/recommend any batteries as drop in replacement for cars?
I am curious. Were those Noco batteries cutting out from over current? Or was the battery voltage dropping too low and triggering the low voltage cutout
Will, are you going to write another book, but more along the lines of off grid homes? I just purchased your RV book.
Because sometimes shoot happens, ALWAYS have a fuse or circuit -breaker on the output even if there's overcurrent protection.