@@jasontwolford TSA website is not the law. That being said, the law states.... "The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination." Key words here are "only" and "retain". The "only" does take TSA approved locks out of the equation, since their key or combination is carried by everyone in the TSA. It can, however, be argued that handing over the key or combination temporarily does not define "retain" and so legally you can give them that info if they ask for it. Im sure at some point this will be brought up and decided in a court.
Interestingly, I just had this issue at Phoenix airport on Sunday. I was walked over to the TSA checkpoint and was forced to hand the agent a key for them to unlock or I wasn’t going to be allowed to fly with my luggage. Granted, I was right there and could observe what they were doing, but they refused to allow me to unlock the case. I had to relinquish control of the key.
Few years ago I traveled via AA to a shooting event and had my firearms on me. I got paged and told the gate agent if a security official or agent would escort me and that it was about my firearms. She was very nice and actually flagged down a DFW PD officer who walked me over. As we were walking over I told him the situation and he was awesome. The TSA agent was a complete jerk to me and was talking at the top of her voice about me bringing firearms without a TSA lock. I said, "Maam I cannot travel with a TSA lock on the firearm it is against the law." She started to literally get in my face. The DFW PD officer then told the TSA worker, "Ma'am you need to back off and lower your voice now. Listen to what he is telling you he's telling you the actual law. If I have to step in things will escalate." So I continued to talk to her before demanding to talk to a Supervisor. After an hour of talking the Cop finally walked down to the TSA secured baggage area, grabbed my bag, brought it over, I handed him my keys, he opened it, and looked at it. TSA looked at and that was it. The problem by this point was that now I had missed my flight arguing with TSA for over an hour. The DFW PD officer then walked me over to the AA counter and told the agent that the TSA personal made me miss my flight because they did not know the correct laws. AA got me on the next flight (20 minutes later) and the only seat open was 1st Class! The officer then told me he was going straight over to TSA to ensure this never happened again. Thanks to Officer Thompson DFW PD for everything.
That's what my Grandma would always tell me "courtesy costs you nothing and can actually buy you quite a bit". She's made it to 95 so she must have done something right
Not always true, though. Police officers see politeness as a sign of weakness in my personal experience. It only seems to make them more cocky & aggressive because they see you as an easier target.
TSA pulled this same stunt with me @ DFW once. Once. They actually took me inside the so-called "secure area" when I refused to hand the keys over. Why is it a "secure area"? Because there are no cameras in it. Someone was trying to see if you had anything worth stealing under the pretense of "yeah, saw something suspicious on the x-ray." A year later I mentioned this to a TSA agent I had gotten to know from flying in and out of there with my firearm a lot and he said they eventually arrested the guy who "inspected" my firearms in the "secure area" for stealing things out of bags he was inspecting. Never forget, the TSA is made up of just plain old ordinary folks from all different walks of life and backgrounds and they work for a little above the minimum wage.
Yall are all stupid. I got hired on at $20.42 an hour. Thanks. And secured areas have many cameras. It's how we cover ourselves. Secured areas are just the areas past security or behind a door you need a badge to access. People drive me nuts with their assumptions.
@@bkd_riptide2610 I think OP's point is that a crooked TSA agent lied about having his bag in a secure area in an attempt to convince him to give up his key so crooked TSA agent could open his bag in an unsecured area.
BKD_ Riptide “just following orders” will be your defense when you Nazis are held accountable. Thanks for ensuring tyranny in America. They could Not do it with out folks just like you...
John, that video was not only informative, it was very thoughtful. It really makes you think about stuff instead of flying off the handle, and creating more problems for everybody. Thank you again for another of many great videos.
The problem is, no one gives anyone the benefit of the doubt. Compassion for people is rapidly declining and had been for a while. Peoples egos get in the way of common sense. Like they say, common sense isn't so common these days. No one cares about the laws
I've had that same problem several times at different airports. I used to carry print out, then I saved a pdf version to my cell phone. That way, if I have crappy cell service I don't have to look it up. Kindness definitely helps along with a good understanding of the law. Great video!
RIght on. If you have to get ugly down the road, it isn't that hard. But trying to be polite after you've been rude... that is far more of a challenge and you will likely be eating crow in the process.
Great video. I print off the TSA regulations as well as the airline policies for the airline i'm flying with and keep them in my pocket. I also fly SW if at all possible for the reasons you mentioned. I've only had a problem with SW once because i think the person was very inexperienced. When i declared the gun I opened the case for her to look at it. The form you fill out that goes inside the case she wanted to stick on the outside and she was saying i needed TSA compliant locks as well. I pulled out my paperwork from both TSA and SW showing that she was incorrect. We ended up having to have a manager come over, but it was all peaceful and I exercised my verbal judo to keep her calm so we could just get the situation resolved so i could get my firearm checked and get on the plane. Thanks for all the great content, John.
I also had a professional encounter with the TSA at Dulles. I was unexpectedly gifted some "vintage" (read in dire need of care) weapons while visiting the area. Not needing another bunch of gun cases I bought a tool box that met the TSA stated requirements. Not wanting to chance confusion on the day of travel I took the box to the airport the day before. Sure enough the first response at TSA special handling was "I don't think so... That's a tool box". However, the agent went to get a supervisor. The supervisor arrived with three more agents. I now had five agents going over my tool box. After a very short time they gave the box a thumbs up. The supervisor asked what time was I flying? I answered tomorrow morning. He said great these three will be here. The next day the only problem I encountered was a new Delta counter rep shouting that I couldn't bring weapons on the aircraft. A seasoned rep quickly stepped in and I was escorted to see my buddies at TSA. Their only comment was that the tool box was heavier today.
I like IAD since it is so spacious. But gun nuts scare me. Why don't they ship their arms via FedEx? In Mexico, you see them with firearm strapped to the hip, and they carry it onboard (or at least 20 years ago they did).
Ray Lopez... in Mexico now it is illegal to have a gun in your possession in public, period. Automatic 20 year sentence. Only people allowed to carry any firearm in public are police and military.
Ray Lopez ...yes, gun nuts aren’t the ones you should be afraid of. They are the ones who are gonna save your butt if the SHTF. The people you should be afraid of are the ones who don’t care about laws or other people’s rights. Those are the people that are going to rob you, beat you, and oppress you just because they can. Remember, no matter where you are, police are ALWAYS at least 10 min to as much as 60 min away. Who’s gonna protect you in that 40 min window before police arrive? I work in north hollywood in a residential part. A 60 or 70 year old elderly man was shot by a young kid in front of the apt complex right across the street from where I work at 2:30pm a few weeks ago. I saw the shooter running away. I called 911. It took the police 40 min to arrive on scene. The victim had his wife pull the car up and drive him to the hospital. If he had waited for the police he would have been dead!!! I stood out there and waited for them for 40 min. And then after they arrived I had to stay out there for 3 hours as officer after officer showed out and needed to take statements and then detectives showed up and needed statements, etc. In this world there are wolves and there are sheep. Standing between them protecting the sheep from the wolves are the lawful gun owners. We are the sheepdogs.
I think the dirty little secret about most perceived "leftist" cities, is that they are not leftist, but just cheered-on to be that by a small loud cabal of subversives in league with media and the Democrat party, who win seats and retain power by cheating with the same players, to deny the will of the American voter.
Liberal-leaning Portland natives are generally very gun friendly here. Historically, Portland is pretty moderate. It’s all the implants occupying the area and the media that paint an inaccurate picture.
Excellent video. I swear everyone needs to watch this channel. I hope that if I'm ever in a situation with escalated emotions I can recall lessons like this and practice my best verbal judo. The best case scenario is never going any further than that and making it through life safe. Thank you for teaching so many people how to cover our ASP!
I've traveled with firearms a lot and I'm amazed how each airline/TSA agent wants something different. Some want to physically check the gun, others don't care. One added a tag indicating a firearm was inside - that took a lot of talking to fix. One insisted a TSA lock is required. One time my exterior lock had been cut off and resecured with a zip tie. Crazy!
This is dangerous, those TSA locks are hardly secure. The Code of Federal Regulations exists for a reason. Zip ties! About as secure as a rubber band. Also, in this case, a violation of regulations. I'm glad that knowledge and adherence to the law prevailed here.
Why can't we at the TSA thing where they x ray and you stand in the thing that spins. Can't they inspect the bags there and then put a transport seal on it with a number so when you get to your destination NO one has tampered with your checked luggage cases or stuff. You put your name phone # and tracking/seal # on it. You carry the seal # with your papers. We ship sealed containers world wide with little cable seals with numbers on them. Guess it's too simple for college Educated idiots.
Bravo John! Being kind and respectful is always best. And of course knowing the law 100%. A Very Merry Christmas to You and your Family and Staff! Plus Kind Thanks for your service to us all! DaveyJO in Pennsylvania
@@ASPextra ahhhh, you must see what i did there lol stay safe John thank you for every effort and video you make for us. I always quote to my lady, never EVER get taken to a "second location... nothing good ever happens at the second location" 😁
@@MrTassadarzo awesome bro, and it will work! One day my lady had got held up by knife point by our own home while i wasnt around and the guy tried to get her to go in the alley by 1 of the abandoned houses. She did not go and resisted! She said all she could remember was what i told her, NEVER GO TO A 2ND LOCATION! Thanks again John! Stay blessed up MrT and the rest of you all
It would be wonderful if all the airlines would have the same policies regarding firearms. The training for tsa employees could be better also. Thanks for the video.
I have flown at least a dozen times with my firearm. Never a problem. With the exception of one instance at Austin Intl. I have always been requested to accompany my bag over to TSA and wait for them outside for them to give me the thumbs up. Every single counter agent has been up to snuff on the process: fill out the tag, open my bag (I carry my gun in a locked metal case inside my checked bag), show them the locked case, put the tag on top of the case. Done and done.
Always been an experience to watch and learn something new about certain situations? Thanks for all your advice and the videos you're putting out there. You've been very helpful to a lot of people like myself who is 64 years old on who, what and when to get the hell out of these other situations to save myself from harm. Thanks John for your help.
Wow! I love the being reasonable & kind message. I find that you can be assertive and kind and in most cases that gets a lot of situations settled amicably. You’ve got a new subscriber.
As a TSA agent myself I do appreciate you arriving early just in case there are problems. Our machines can go off on something as simple as a gun case for no apparent reason and this can sometimes be a lengthy process to resolve. Can't get into what we look at but as for scissors for the American airlines, 4 inches long from the fulcrum of the scissors will make it through. Larger than that though and you'll have to check it in at the airline desk that took your checked baggage or stick it in your car or give it to family. Otherwise it won't make it through and we'll toss it.
Thanks John. I work for TSA in California. I, too, am a fan of your channel. (And I am originally from Detroit!) We try our best to be helpful to the passengers while ensuring all screening procedure rules are adhered to. Not everyone is perfect, of course, which is why we always try to help each other out. We always appreciate when passengers are patient with us and try to be polite as we try to be. We never want to do the extra checks, of course. Who wants to do extra work? We just ask that people arrive early enough to allow for unforeseen additional screening. (This could even be someone in line ahead of you as well. You never know.) The bottom line is the safety of the flight. We are all in this together. Keep up the good work. Love the channel. :)
As much as I hate to say it, you being “kind” and the supervisor being the same probably had a lot to do with your TH-cam celebrity. I wonder if the same kindness would apply to John Q Citizen if he responds the same way you did?
Went through SFO with several firearms (including non CA compliant rifles) and had a somewhat similar experience this week, although I was walked down to open my case. Being polite and respectful while demonstrating that you are experienced with the process resolves the issue every time in my experience. I am a calm level headed person by nature, which likely helps prevent issues from arising.
Even being polite and citing the code with a printed copy, I was told “Either you give us the key, or your firearms are not flying today”. Got the same spiel about them being in a secure area. I said bring the case out. They said “not happening.”
NO. GO AMD FOLLOW THE STATE LAWS ON HOW TO CARRY FIREARMS IN YOUR STATE AND THE STATE YOU PLAN ON FLYING TO. THERES 50 STATES AND HES NOT GOING TI MAKE 50 DIFFERENT VIDEOS
JohnGee123 Why should he do a video on traveling with firearms when there are at least half dozen popular videos on YT on it? Further they are not substitutes to got to TSA's website to learn first hand what to do. And RadSavage is correct. Each state and locality has its own laws so you should know what the laws for firearms are the location of your airport of origin and destination.
Another great video. Federal Wildlife Officer here. You handled that perfectly. Officers are human too. It's much easier to be nice to people when they're nice to you. Additionally, it's great that you always encourage people to know the laws. I wish more people were aware of the laws, ....about any endeavor they're involved in. It could be firearms, hunting, possession of wildlife, ...whatever. I know the laws can be complicated, poorly worded and sometimes hard to find, but ignorance of the law is never a good defense.
40 years ( retired) in the airline industry. Rifle cases are fine, kind of hard to walk off with. I suggest overboxing pistol cases, I.E. inside a regular suitcase. If your case is large consider stickering the outside with a decal not gun related. Tool, electronic, musical instrument etc. Thievery is rare, but it does exist among the TSA and ramp workers. Lastly, after check in, hang out near the ticket counter for 25 minutes. That's usually enough time to ensure your bag has cleared the TSA screening.
elk hunter If you put your gun case inside another suitcase, then the gun case can be stolen out from inside. I prefer to have the luggage tag attached directly to the locked case. And on top of that, you can put other valuable inside so that they don't get "misplaced". 🙄
Maybe it wasn't clear that I was describing exactly how John was doing it. A larger Pelican style case AS the luggage with non-TSA locks on the outside. I use the Pelican 1560.
Thanks John...for the kind words. I know as well discussed we have a thankless jobs. However, its situations like this is what makes it well worth the effort. Continue to do what you do...good day to you
I like *that* ( @ 6:47 ) part. "When carrying concealed firearms you'd better know the law 100%." In my opinion way too few civilians know the relevant law that pertains to their situation. Whether it be concealed carry, open carry, rights as a tenant, rights as a driver, etc etc etc. In other words ignorance is the norm. . . until things go wrong. Then learning takes place . . . the hard way.
Doug Christensen fat chance. They don't get trained properly nor consistently. I travel a lot between Chicago and Los Angeles and the inconsistencies between TSA agents at both airports are nothing short of astounding. I'll get hassled at one airport over one container of hair product at one airport but not the other. Same thing with my saftey razor without a blade in it. Total inconsistency. If their training was half way decent it would be obvious but really it's a joke.
True, very inconsistent in following policy. It's almost like the folks at Walmart that feel they need to check your receipt on the way out when they suspect you of nothing. Policy is just that, but it is not the law.
@@avega2792 it's inconsistent because xrays are ran by people, and people aren't perfect. So specially when they're assuming "yeah that looks about the right amount" You'll always think everything is inconsistent because your not supposed to know how the things flow. Thats why you hear yourself telling yourself "all airports are different".
When flying with my hand gun, it stays inside a metal TSA approved locked case, cabled to the frame of the suitcase, with the cable also run through the magazine well of the firearm with another padlock on the end. They'll be no easily slipping the locked case out of the suitcase without it being obvious on video.
Sage advise John, well done. I was a street cop for 30 yrs and if I learned anything it was how to handle difficult people. The old saying “killing them w/kindness” works almost every time.
Avoided detainment, further interrogation and unnecessary attention by keeping your cool and fully complying within the law. Good work in keeping that ego on check but above all........ You Covered Your Asp. (ASP Theme now playing 🎶).
Mr Lopez Not quite sure where you are going with your comments. However, it is estimated that hundreds of thousands of people own millions of weapons and have nearly a trillion rounds of ammunition on hand. If we were truly "nuts"... It would be abundantly obvious that we were problematic, dangerous or worthy of making you nervous. As for using FedEx to ship our weapons while traveling there is a problem. The problem is that we "nuts" are overwhelmingly law abiding. It is against the law to FedEx yourself a weapon unless you are appropriately licensed to do so. As a result, we follow the federal laws on how to check them as baggage. Lastly, the time when anyone could bring a weapon into the cabin of an airliner has long since passed. Hence the long lines at the TSA inspection stations. Rest easy my friend! You have little to fear from us law abiding "nuts". Reserve your fear for the criminals and mentally deficit. Regards...
There may be a time to be gruff, but certainly not with TSA . You’re going to make people angry and you’re not going to win. I’m a LEO and wife and I flew to Alaska for the last two weeks of September. Naturally I packed and checked my Glock 20, ammo, and knife in a pelican case tethered via a steel cable inside my suitcase. I was flying American but didn’t have any trouble. While waiting for my connection in Seattle I heard my name called to report to TSA. My butt drew up and I walked over. The agent asked if I was a LEO and I replied yes and showed him my credentials. He was very nervous and then asked where I was WEARING my firearm! I was nice and a little nervous myself and explained I had checked and showed him the slip. He was quite relieved and said the original ticket agent checked a box that said I was carrying. I had already been on two other planes! But everyone was nice and went away smiling. I always carry a copy of the law from the TSA website.
Jay Zenitram when I originally checked in with the firearm (American Airlines) I filled out the slip and it had a copy attached. They looked it over and then advised me to put one in the luggage and keep one on me. That was a first for me too.
By handling the situation in a non confrontational way, and being able to show them the law, you also gave them some training, which will be a great help to anybody else who flies with them with their firearms in the future. Thank You!
Lucky you being recognized. I've been through the same thing multiple times, as a CA resident, flying in and out of CA. I keep multiple copies of the law and I am NOT a jerk. Sometimes they bring me to the bag, but multiple times I have been told that I MUST relinquish my key or my stuff is getting left behind (which means I'm not getting on the plane because I chose this option once and when I got back to my case 4 days later, I found that they had STILL cut my locks off and re-"secured" my gun with one of those cheap POS TSA locks that looks like it came out of a quarter machine! Then they left my case sitting unattended in an unlocked baggage claim office). When this happened in San Diego (for the second time), I asked the supervisor if he could take my phone back with him and video record the inspection of my case with the perspective showing nothing but MY stuff and the blue gloves of the inspector. I thought this was a pretty generous compromise on my part but, of course, they refused! Frustrated beyond belief, I now use an old cell phone as a hidden camera inside my case for the next time the blue glove bullies force me to break the law! 😠
Got information to check your channel and you as good as he said you would be , you are refreshing to see somebody with a great attitude so hope to see more of you! So thanks
You're infringed and you know it. Otherwise, Make the video! I am all about the bill of rights. I push the boundaries of the laws about guns everyday. I pick my battles though, and so do you.
I also fly SW and have been "paged" several times. Like you, I always demand the SW agent escort ME to TSA so I can hand him the key/tell him the combination and "witness" the inspection. One time I had flown and when I returned, "something" was missing. Since we don't 'inventory' as we pack, we don't really KNOW what we packed. When I got home, "something" was missing but I really didn't know what it was. I subsequently determined the one way to be able to lock my case -- put a gun in it. At first, I put the frame of an old 'demilitarized' 1911 in the case. By ATF, it IS a gun (frame/serial #) so I was able to lock my case. SW doesn't know WTF but they will escort me and I chat with TSA to educate him on WHY I am there. When he accedes to my "request" I hand him the key/combination and watch thru the windowed door. They will not usually explain what they are looking for but one time, when he closed my Halliburton aluminum case/combination lock, there was a piece of a garment sticking out the side. When I pointed that out to him, he corrected it and locked the case. One time I was transporting 9 boxes of 9 mm for a training course. I had taped them all together to they wouldn't get busted apart as the baggage manglers shake the sh8 out of the bags. Not being able to see outlines of bullets, they paged me and inspected. That time he explained why he needed to look. EVERY time I meet any TSA I tell them that 9/11 would NEVER have happened if we were able to carry our personal guns aboard. Some sneer but many others agree with me. Now, for the past ten years I carry a complete gun and feel secure that my bags are safe from pilferage.
You know how air marshals are the only ones able to carry guns on board an air craft? Or that they take many advanced training courses on how to avoid depressurising the cabin at all costs? Yeah you and any other random joe didn't take that course or get that memo that you'll kill everybody on board the aircraft clearly. Please do your research
The TSA hiring requirements apparently are not very stringent. I had to be able to read to get my job as a shipping clerk. LOL Glad you made it through. I live near Detroit so I feel your pain.
Never heard of Detroit specifically so, I won't say you're wrong about that. I'd hate to think that anyone who would steal could get a job at TSA but, stranger things have happened I guess. If that's happened to you I sure am sorry.
John we are huge fans...Thank you Man of God... Ninja School Columbia City Seattle Me and my Husband would be blessed to have you out to teach at our Dojo R.R
Had a similar experience in San Jose, with a few differences. My safe had a biometric lock, so I was the key. In order for them to bring it out of the secure area, TSA had to get local PD to assist for some reason. Local SJPD brought me the case, the TSA guy poked around and cleared everything. While waiting, the SJPD tried to dissuade my desire to have a firearm because it is futile to store it properly according to the CA laws and think you can use it for self defense. My tongue bled from biting it so I could just get on my way. Missed my flight and arrived like 8hrs later.
Hey John nice job . I’ve learned many years ago that being kind and nice to people is the way to go. Things usually go your way but not always but most of the time. You get much more with honey the vinegar that’s for sure. Just treat people how you would like to be treated and things run real smoothly. Glad you had a great trip look forward to your next video. Ron
@Acitve Self Protecition Extra Ah, I went down the 49 CFR 1540. 111c rabbit hole and see what you are referring to. BUT I also looked further regarding the law for packing ammunition and found this on the TSA websdie, "Firearms must be unloaded and locked in a hard-sided container and transported as checked baggage only. As defined by 49 CFR 1540.5 a loaded firearm has a live round of ammunition, or any component thereof, in the chamber or cylinder or in a magazine inserted in the firearm. Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock UNLESS TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations". So, there is that as well.
I was flying TDY with a small group for the Army from San Francisco back to NC and ran into the same issue. The TSA there wasn't willing to budge so I got the supervisors name, informed my boss of the situation and did a 100% inventory as soon as we were back in possession of the gun cases. Thankfully everything was still there but I was taken back with their lack of cooperation with DOD travelers.
So funny, I had the exact same scenario happen at Phoenix airport when Vicki and I visited you years ago. I handled it the same way. I learned that most of the TSA staff don’t actually know these or airline rules. Carrying a copy of the regs helps a lot. Kindness always helps too!
Sounds like you run into my brother-in-law who happens to be a supervisor at Detroit TSA. And yes his name is Thomas. Sorry I missed your class here, but the supervisor you run into had an incident where a man tried to shoot him in the chest with a firearm that fully functioned but the primer was dead. I advised him you should be playing the lotto. Next time you're in Detroit you might want to ask Thomas about that.
I hope one day to have the wisdom and maturity to approach these irritating situations with such a positive outlook, and to be able to remain professional and level headed like you. Stay safe brother!
Nah, I've never had a problem. I keep two copies of 49 CFR 1540.111 (c) printed out in my carry-on. Whenever there has been a request for my combo/keys, I just say, "The laws says I cannot. I have a copy of the law here for your reference." Two copies - one to hand them, one for me to keep.
Flew from Seattle to Spokane, TSA made sure my ammo was in an original box/plastic ammo case. Bag zip-tied and was brought directly to me upon arrival. Flying back, TSA had me load all my ammo in magazines in front of everyone. They did not zip-tie the bag and sent it out on the carousel with all the other bags.
Them asking for your key sounds innocent but you have to wonder what their real motive was for wanting to open the case in a secure area where you were not allowed to witness it. The reason you are supposed to be the only one who has access to the lock is because you are responsible for that firearm, had something been taken out of the case in the secure area you would have been responsible for it since you gave them the key. You have to wonder if they were trying to steal from you thinking you had no clue of the law. Most people in your situation would have handed over the key thinking that the TSA agent had the authority to demand that you give it to them. Had they gotten the key and stolen your gun you would not have known about it until you were in another city hours later and since you were supposed to have the only key and there was no sign of tampering you would likely either be out of luck in trying to get it recovered or be in trouble yourself for giving up the key to the TSA agent. What they did just doesn't pass the smell test.
You can use TSA locks, per the TSA website and it was explained to me by TSA at the Jacksonville airport: Firearms must be unloaded and locked in a hard-sided container and transported as checked baggage only. As defined by 49 CFR 1540.5 a loaded firearm has a live round of ammunition, or any component thereof, in the chamber or cylinder or in a magazine inserted in the firearm. Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock unless TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations. You may use any brand or type of lock to secure your firearm case, including TSA-recognized locks.
I worked for TSA for almost five year's and I am glad you handled this situation well. You were correct in this case. Glad you know your law. I worked for a small airport so we didn't have an X-Ray machine so we had to inspect any firearm manually that came in. So everything we would call the passenger back and he or she would give us the key and we would unlock it in front of them and they would watch us carefully inspect it. A big airport with a x ray machine you can clear it with just the x ray so I'm not sure why they had to open it. Glad this situation got resolved professionally by both parties
I had the same thing happen to me, they tried to tell me I had to put tsa locks on my case. I told them no way, nobody is to have access but me. They wanted to inspect it and asked for me to give them the keys. I refused and come to find out they destroyed my bag and didn’t want me to see it. They had to give me a new suitcase and inspected my firearm in my presence.
I've had problems flying out of Detroit with American Airlines myself. I won't do that again. At check in they couldn't decide if ammo had to be in the original box or locked in a separate hard sided case for some reason. They also put it straight on the conveyor like you said, it worried me but the woman said it was how they do it there. Then, when I got to Phoenix, the bag just came down the normal conveyor belt, with a big red tag that says "steel me! I have a firearm in here." Normally my bag gets held and I need to show ID to pick it up; that seems like the right way to do it, but not with American Airlines.
Same thing happened to me from Charleston (CHS) to Denver (DEN). My biggest concern is that TSA/airline agents are not aware of the federal laws associated with transporting firearms. Unbeknownst to them, they are asking you to break federal law for convenience sake.
The law is 49 CFR 1540111 www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/1540.111
On tsa website they say agent may ask for the key or combination from you to inspect case and you need to give it to them.
@@jasontwolford TSA website is not the law. That being said, the law states.... "The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination." Key words here are "only" and "retain". The "only" does take TSA approved locks out of the equation, since their key or combination is carried by everyone in the TSA. It can, however, be argued that handing over the key or combination temporarily does not define "retain" and so legally you can give them that info if they ask for it. Im sure at some point this will be brought up and decided in a court.
Interestingly, I just had this issue at Phoenix airport on Sunday. I was walked over to the TSA checkpoint and was forced to hand the agent a key for them to unlock or I wasn’t going to be allowed to fly with my luggage. Granted, I was right there and could observe what they were doing, but they refused to allow me to unlock the case. I had to relinquish control of the key.
Few years ago I traveled via AA to a shooting event and had my firearms on me. I got paged and told the gate agent if a security official or agent would escort me and that it was about my firearms. She was very nice and actually flagged down a DFW PD officer who walked me over. As we were walking over I told him the situation and he was awesome. The TSA agent was a complete jerk to me and was talking at the top of her voice about me bringing firearms without a TSA lock. I said, "Maam I cannot travel with a TSA lock on the firearm it is against the law." She started to literally get in my face. The DFW PD officer then told the TSA worker, "Ma'am you need to back off and lower your voice now. Listen to what he is telling you he's telling you the actual law. If I have to step in things will escalate." So I continued to talk to her before demanding to talk to a Supervisor. After an hour of talking the Cop finally walked down to the TSA secured baggage area, grabbed my bag, brought it over, I handed him my keys, he opened it, and looked at it. TSA looked at and that was it. The problem by this point was that now I had missed my flight arguing with TSA for over an hour. The DFW PD officer then walked me over to the AA counter and told the agent that the TSA personal made me miss my flight because they did not know the correct laws. AA got me on the next flight (20 minutes later) and the only seat open was 1st Class! The officer then told me he was going straight over to TSA to ensure this never happened again. Thanks to Officer Thompson DFW PD for everything.
God bless Texas
Yeah I don't understand why someone would even need to raise their voice. It's a bad look
@@kennybrown3085 It causes panic as well.
Thanks for giving praise to a good person.
@@kennybrown3085 because if they can fluster you into raising yours, they know they can easily make you out to be the bad guy.
That's what my Grandma would always tell me "courtesy costs you nothing and can actually buy you quite a bit". She's made it to 95 so she must have done something right
LOVE IT
Old Iron sounds interesting, how would it apply to the army guy?
Mine died at 77 from cancer I guess she must have done something wrong eh? fucking dick.
@@Connection-Lost chilllllllll😭😭😂
Not always true, though. Police officers see politeness as a sign of weakness in my personal experience. It only seems to make them more cocky & aggressive because they see you as an easier target.
I was in the airport traveling when I heard you being paged. I was praying all went well with you in the flight. Glad it turned out well. Fly safe
You too Terry!
Treating people with respect goes a long way. Another lesson learned.
Well i hope you're 5yrs old. Because that is something you should be taught when your a child and not just now learning as an adult LOL
@@ThereAreTwoGenders What a tone-deaf, self-negating comment.
@@ThereAreTwoGenders Dale Carnegie's Book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is a starter for people to deal with each other.
@Andrew Solymos im sorry you had shitty parents and weren't able to self teach because it is also common sense
Especially applies to tsa!
TSA pulled this same stunt with me @ DFW once. Once. They actually took me inside the so-called "secure area" when I refused to hand the keys over.
Why is it a "secure area"? Because there are no cameras in it.
Someone was trying to see if you had anything worth stealing under the pretense of "yeah, saw something suspicious on the x-ray."
A year later I mentioned this to a TSA agent I had gotten to know from flying in and out of there with my firearm a lot and he said they eventually arrested the guy who "inspected" my firearms in the "secure area" for stealing things out of bags he was inspecting.
Never forget, the TSA is made up of just plain old ordinary folks from all different walks of life and backgrounds and they work for a little above the minimum wage.
@C Depends on where you live. In Comerfomial 17$/hr is nothing.
Yall are all stupid. I got hired on at $20.42 an hour. Thanks. And secured areas have many cameras. It's how we cover ourselves. Secured areas are just the areas past security or behind a door you need a badge to access. People drive me nuts with their assumptions.
@@bkd_riptide2610 I think OP's point is that a crooked TSA agent lied about having his bag in a secure area in an attempt to convince him to give up his key so crooked TSA agent could open his bag in an unsecured area.
BKD_ Riptide “just following orders” will be your defense when you Nazis are held accountable. Thanks for ensuring tyranny in America. They could Not do it with out folks just like you...
John, that video was not only informative, it was very thoughtful.
It really makes you think about stuff instead of flying off the handle, and creating more problems for everybody.
Thank you again for another of many great videos.
Thanks Bill!
@Andrew Solymos 'cept for maybe a dirty vagina?!
So true. People are so quick to get into a verbal fight. Nobody is listening when the emotions come out.
The problem is, no one gives anyone the benefit of the doubt. Compassion for people is rapidly declining and had been for a while. Peoples egos get in the way of common sense. Like they say, common sense isn't so common these days. No one cares about the laws
I've had that same problem several times at different airports. I used to carry print out, then I saved a pdf version to my cell phone. That way, if I have crappy cell service I don't have to look it up. Kindness definitely helps along with a good understanding of the law. Great video!
It costs nothing to be polite. Well played John, I'm awarding you an extra 50 points for use of the word "kerfuffle". You're awesome man 😃
RIght on. If you have to get ugly down the road, it isn't that hard. But trying to be polite after you've been rude... that is far more of a challenge and you will likely be eating crow in the process.
I hate kerfuffles and rigmaroles.
Great video. I print off the TSA regulations as well as the airline policies for the airline i'm flying with and keep them in my pocket. I also fly SW if at all possible for the reasons you mentioned. I've only had a problem with SW once because i think the person was very inexperienced. When i declared the gun I opened the case for her to look at it. The form you fill out that goes inside the case she wanted to stick on the outside and she was saying i needed TSA compliant locks as well. I pulled out my paperwork from both TSA and SW showing that she was incorrect. We ended up having to have a manager come over, but it was all peaceful and I exercised my verbal judo to keep her calm so we could just get the situation resolved so i could get my firearm checked and get on the plane. Thanks for all the great content, John.
same thing happened to me in orlando (MCO)
asked for supervisor and it all got settled exactly the same way
Awesome. Thanks for the feedback.
likewise, and in mco. However, apparently things have changed on TSA's website.
Doing the Lord's work my friend
John I enjoy your vids quite a lot. I was waiting for you to say "And cover your ASP"
I didn't know about the key law until this video, so thanks John
I also had a professional encounter with the TSA at Dulles. I was unexpectedly gifted some "vintage" (read in dire need of care) weapons while visiting the area. Not needing another bunch of gun cases I bought a tool box that met the TSA stated requirements. Not wanting to chance confusion on the day of travel I took the box to the airport the day before. Sure enough the first response at TSA special handling was "I don't think so... That's a tool box". However, the agent went to get a supervisor.
The supervisor arrived with three more agents. I now had five agents going over my tool box. After a very short time they gave the box a thumbs up.
The supervisor asked what time was I flying? I answered tomorrow morning. He said great these three will be here.
The next day the only problem I encountered was a new Delta counter rep shouting that I couldn't bring weapons on the aircraft. A seasoned rep quickly stepped in and I was escorted to see my buddies at TSA. Their only comment was that the tool box was heavier today.
I like IAD since it is so spacious. But gun nuts scare me. Why don't they ship their arms via FedEx? In Mexico, you see them with firearm strapped to the hip, and they carry it onboard (or at least 20 years ago they did).
Ray Lopez... in Mexico now it is illegal to have a gun in your possession in public, period. Automatic 20 year sentence. Only people allowed to carry any firearm in public are police and military.
Ray Lopez Violent Criminals should scare you Raymond. Not gun owners.
Ray Lopez ...yes, gun nuts aren’t the ones you should be afraid of. They are the ones who are gonna save your butt if the SHTF. The people you should be afraid of are the ones who don’t care about laws or other people’s rights. Those are the people that are going to rob you, beat you, and oppress you just because they can.
Remember, no matter where you are, police are ALWAYS at least 10 min to as much as 60 min away. Who’s gonna protect you in that 40 min window before police arrive?
I work in north hollywood in a residential part. A 60 or 70 year old elderly man was shot by a young kid in front of the apt complex right across the street from where I work at 2:30pm a few weeks ago. I saw the shooter running away. I called 911. It took the police 40 min to arrive on scene. The victim had his wife pull the car up and drive him to the hospital. If he had waited for the police he would have been dead!!!
I stood out there and waited for them for 40 min. And then after they arrived I had to stay out there for 3 hours as officer after officer showed out and needed to take statements and then detectives showed up and needed statements, etc.
In this world there are wolves and there are sheep. Standing between them protecting the sheep from the wolves are the lawful gun owners. We are the sheepdogs.
Gun nuts are the folks you should be afraid of.
Gun owners are cool.
But the nuts are cray-cray.
TSA in Detroit is notoriously bad. I grew up there. They are the worst. Awesome lesson on being kind.
Flew with my G26 to Portland Oregon from Vegas with no issues. Which surprised me for Portland lol.
I think the dirty little secret about most perceived "leftist" cities, is that they are not leftist, but just cheered-on to be that by a small loud cabal of subversives in league with media and the Democrat party, who win seats and retain power by cheating with the same players, to deny the will of the American voter.
Liberal-leaning Portland natives are generally very gun friendly here. Historically, Portland is pretty moderate. It’s all the implants occupying the area and the media that paint an inaccurate picture.
This was so positive and uplifting it helped me and I was educated.
Subscribed
Welcome!
This guy always gives the best advice on everything. Thanks John
Thanks so much for the encouragement Mark Machosky; I really appreciate it. Hope you have a great day!
John - thanks for the reminder to be cool and kind. I have learned a bunch from your vids which i contemplate often. God bless my brother
Excellent video. I swear everyone needs to watch this channel. I hope that if I'm ever in a situation with escalated emotions I can recall lessons like this and practice my best verbal judo. The best case scenario is never going any further than that and making it through life safe. Thank you for teaching so many people how to cover our ASP!
I've traveled with firearms a lot and I'm amazed how each airline/TSA agent wants something different. Some want to physically check the gun, others don't care. One added a tag indicating a firearm was inside - that took a lot of talking to fix. One insisted a TSA lock is required. One time my exterior lock had been cut off and resecured with a zip tie. Crazy!
This is dangerous, those TSA locks are hardly secure. The Code of Federal Regulations exists for a reason. Zip ties! About as secure as a rubber band. Also, in this case, a violation of regulations. I'm glad that knowledge and adherence to the law prevailed here.
Why can't we at the TSA thing where they x ray and you stand in the thing that spins. Can't they inspect the bags there and then put a transport seal on it with a number so when you get to your destination NO one has tampered with your checked luggage cases or stuff.
You put your name phone # and tracking/seal # on it. You carry the seal # with your papers. We ship sealed containers world wide with little cable seals with numbers on them.
Guess it's too simple for college Educated idiots.
Bravo John! Being kind and respectful is always best. And of course knowing the law 100%. A Very Merry Christmas to You and your Family and Staff! Plus Kind Thanks for your service to us all! DaveyJO in Pennsylvania
John you’re an amazing human and I feel honored to live in a country where I can follow and learn from a guy like you!
You called yourself a "youtube celebrity", mannnnnnn you need to cut it out, you a youtube legend bro, nothin less. God bless
Haha!
@@ASPextra ahhhh, you must see what i did there lol stay safe John thank you for every effort and video you make for us. I always quote to my lady, never EVER get taken to a "second location... nothing good ever happens at the second location" 😁
@@dussemccussay3995 2 years later, I want to thank you for repeating John's quote. My lady will be sure to hear it.
@@MrTassadarzo awesome bro, and it will work! One day my lady had got held up by knife point by our own home while i wasnt around and the guy tried to get her to go in the alley by 1 of the abandoned houses. She did not go and resisted! She said all she could remember was what i told her, NEVER GO TO A 2ND LOCATION! Thanks again John! Stay blessed up MrT and the rest of you all
@@dussemccussay3995 We talked about it today, thanks again! I'll tell her your lady's story too.
It would be wonderful if all the airlines would have the same policies regarding firearms. The training for tsa employees could be better also. Thanks for the video.
Yeah some standard would be good.
I have flown at least a dozen times with my firearm. Never a problem. With the exception of one instance at Austin Intl. I have always been requested to accompany my bag over to TSA and wait for them outside for them to give me the thumbs up. Every single counter agent has been up to snuff on the process: fill out the tag, open my bag (I carry my gun in a locked metal case inside my checked bag), show them the locked case, put the tag on top of the case. Done and done.
Good point! Just most TSA people never handled firearms and under pressure to screen them
following there procedures.
Always been an experience to watch and learn something new about certain situations? Thanks for all your advice and the videos you're putting out there. You've been very helpful to a lot of people like myself who is 64 years old on who, what and when to get the hell out of these other situations to save myself from harm. Thanks John for your help.
John, you're such an inspiration bro. Love the attitude and the light of Christ showing through. Much love from the 505
Wow! I love the being reasonable & kind message. I find that you can be assertive and kind and in most cases that gets a lot of situations settled amicably. You’ve got a new subscriber.
As a TSA agent myself I do appreciate you arriving early just in case there are problems. Our machines can go off on something as simple as a gun case for no apparent reason and this can sometimes be a lengthy process to resolve. Can't get into what we look at but as for scissors for the American airlines, 4 inches long from the fulcrum of the scissors will make it through. Larger than that though and you'll have to check it in at the airline desk that took your checked baggage or stick it in your car or give it to family. Otherwise it won't make it through and we'll toss it.
Good life lesson/sermon John. I always enjoy your insights and counsel. Blessings!
Same to you!
Thanks John. I work for TSA in California. I, too, am a fan of your channel. (And I am originally from Detroit!) We try our best to be helpful to the passengers while ensuring all screening procedure rules are adhered to. Not everyone is perfect, of course, which is why we always try to help each other out. We always appreciate when passengers are patient with us and try to be polite as we try to be. We never want to do the extra checks, of course. Who wants to do extra work? We just ask that people arrive early enough to allow for unforeseen additional screening. (This could even be someone in line ahead of you as well. You never know.) The bottom line is the safety of the flight. We are all in this together. Keep up the good work. Love the channel. :)
Steverino CLT
Well said. Still dont like TSA, but great points just the same. They've got a job to do just like everybody else .
Learn to spell. Easy to trash people on a post.
Love your neighbor as you love yourself. That's a great example sir! Love your channel and you! God bless!
As much as I hate to say it, you being “kind” and the supervisor being the same probably had a lot to do with your TH-cam celebrity. I wonder if the same kindness would apply to John Q Citizen if he responds the same way you did?
I would hope so. He seemed a very good guy, and kindness always goes a long way.
Went through SFO with several firearms (including non CA compliant rifles) and had a somewhat similar experience this week, although I was walked down to open my case. Being polite and respectful while demonstrating that you are experienced with the process resolves the issue every time in my experience. I am a calm level headed person by nature, which likely helps prevent issues from arising.
Even being polite and citing the code with a printed copy, I was told “Either you give us the key, or your firearms are not flying today”. Got the same spiel about them being in a secure area. I said bring the case out. They said “not happening.”
Michael A probably not
@@Dan91746 Same.
Good stuff. You’re looking good, brother.
Make a video on how to travel with guns and ammo!
NO. GO AMD FOLLOW THE STATE LAWS ON HOW TO CARRY FIREARMS IN YOUR STATE AND THE STATE YOU PLAN ON FLYING TO. THERES 50 STATES AND HES NOT GOING TI MAKE 50 DIFFERENT VIDEOS
@@rad636 Don't think the state laws have anything to do with the Federal/TSA. He should do a video on how travel/TSA requirements.
JohnGee123 Why should he do a video on traveling with firearms when there are at least half dozen popular videos on YT on it? Further they are not substitutes to got to TSA's website to learn first hand what to do. And RadSavage is correct. Each state and locality has its own laws so you should know what the laws for firearms are the location of your airport of origin and destination.
@@jlastre because we like him more
GodNebula Z More than whom?
Another great video. Federal Wildlife Officer here. You handled that perfectly. Officers are human too. It's much easier to be nice to people when they're nice to you. Additionally, it's great that you always encourage people to know the laws. I wish more people were aware of the laws, ....about any endeavor they're involved in. It could be firearms, hunting, possession of wildlife, ...whatever. I know the laws can be complicated, poorly worded and sometimes hard to find, but ignorance of the law is never a good defense.
40 years ( retired) in the airline industry. Rifle cases are fine, kind of hard to walk off with. I suggest overboxing pistol cases, I.E. inside a regular suitcase. If your case is large consider stickering the outside with a decal not gun related. Tool, electronic, musical instrument etc. Thievery is rare, but it does exist among the TSA and ramp workers. Lastly, after check in, hang out near the ticket counter for 25 minutes. That's usually enough time to ensure your bag has cleared the TSA screening.
elk hunter If you put your gun case inside another suitcase, then the gun case can be stolen out from inside. I prefer to have the luggage tag attached directly to the locked case. And on top of that, you can put other valuable inside so that they don't get "misplaced". 🙄
Interesting logic. Good luck with that plan.
@@elkhunter8664 It's not exactly a unique concept and it's really the only alternative to putting the case inside your luggage.
Maybe it wasn't clear that I was describing exactly how John was doing it. A larger Pelican style case AS the luggage with non-TSA locks on the outside. I use the Pelican 1560.
Understood, I covered that in my original comment.
Thanks John...for the kind words. I know as well discussed we have a thankless jobs. However, its situations like this is what makes it well worth the effort. Continue to do what you do...good day to you
I like *that* ( @ 6:47 ) part. "When carrying concealed firearms you'd better know the law 100%." In my opinion way too few civilians know the relevant law that pertains to their situation. Whether it be concealed carry, open carry, rights as a tenant, rights as a driver, etc etc etc. In other words ignorance is the norm. . . until things go wrong. Then learning takes place . . . the hard way.
John - fruits of the Spirit, including kindness, go a long way. Thanks for the word.
You bet!
If the TSA would only know the laws they are trying to enforce.
Doug Christensen fat chance. They don't get trained properly nor consistently. I travel a lot between Chicago and Los Angeles and the inconsistencies between TSA agents at both airports are nothing short of astounding. I'll get hassled at one airport over one container of hair product at one airport but not the other. Same thing with my saftey razor without a blade in it. Total inconsistency. If their training was half way decent it would be obvious but really it's a joke.
True, very inconsistent in following policy. It's almost like the folks at Walmart that feel they need to check your receipt on the way out when they suspect you of nothing. Policy is just that, but it is not the law.
@Hawker75 that's a lot of laws
@@avega2792 it's inconsistent because xrays are ran by people, and people aren't perfect. So specially when they're assuming "yeah that looks about the right amount"
You'll always think everything is inconsistent because your not supposed to know how the things flow. Thats why you hear yourself telling yourself "all airports are different".
John you are an inspiration. I cannot say I would have acted the same as I am ashamed. Great job. God Bless
I mean, you CAN. I am nothing special. :)
Thanks for leading by example man. Good job.
This video got me “all in” on John. Well done, sir. You practice what you preach. Subscriber for as long as you post.
Thanks for the sub!
When flying with my hand gun, it stays inside a metal TSA approved locked case, cabled to the frame of the suitcase, with the cable also run through the magazine well of the firearm with another padlock on the end. They'll be no easily slipping the locked case out of the suitcase without it being obvious on video.
I’d like to see that... got a photo of this set up?
Dont matter they just gon pull the luggage and you still wont have your piece
Sage advise John, well done. I was a street cop for 30 yrs and if I learned anything it was how to handle difficult people. The old saying “killing them w/kindness” works almost every time.
Great message John. Being correct doesn't give us a license to be rude. Do to other's as we'd like them to do us.
A perfect learning moment for TSA. Well done sir.
Perhaps keeping a printed version of the legal requirement regarding the key would help in case phone doesn’t work.
Great Job in keeping your head with TSA and knowing the law! The situation is definitely something to think about.
good job john. looks like you really covered your ASP on this one.
I work for southwest on the ramp. 19 years. Glad to have you as a customer.
Avoided detainment, further interrogation and unnecessary attention by keeping your cool and fully complying within the law. Good work in keeping that ego on check but above all........ You Covered Your Asp. (ASP Theme now playing 🎶).
You mean John avoided the strip search and cavity probe? But, but, but I thought those were normal...
Messeresser ahahahahah! I knew I wasn’t de only one that imagined it.
Being nice and courteous is rare today. You are an inspiration. You use communication skills and also have poise and professionalism.
Mr Lopez
Not quite sure where you are going with your comments. However, it is estimated that hundreds of thousands of people own millions of weapons and have nearly a trillion rounds of ammunition on hand. If we were truly "nuts"... It would be abundantly obvious that we were problematic, dangerous or worthy of making you nervous.
As for using FedEx to ship our weapons while traveling there is a problem. The problem is that we "nuts" are overwhelmingly law abiding. It is against the law to FedEx yourself a weapon unless you are appropriately licensed to do so. As a result, we follow the federal laws on how to check them as baggage.
Lastly, the time when anyone could bring a weapon into the cabin of an airliner has long since passed. Hence the long lines at the TSA inspection stations.
Rest easy my friend! You have little to fear from us law abiding "nuts".
Reserve your fear for the criminals and mentally deficit. Regards...
My brother John,
You are truly an amazing person, your wisdom and humbleness are bigger than life!
I love you bro! Thank you so much!
Glad to help!
There may be a time to be gruff, but certainly not with TSA . You’re going to make people angry and you’re not going to win. I’m a
LEO and wife and I flew to Alaska for the last two weeks of September. Naturally I packed and checked my Glock 20, ammo, and knife in a pelican case tethered via a steel cable inside my suitcase. I was flying American but didn’t have any trouble. While waiting for my connection in Seattle I heard my name called to report to TSA. My butt drew up and I walked over. The agent asked if I was a LEO and I replied yes and showed him my credentials. He was very nervous and then asked where I was WEARING my firearm! I was nice and a little nervous myself and explained I had checked and showed him the slip. He was quite relieved and said the original ticket agent checked a box that said I was carrying. I had already been on two other planes! But everyone was nice and went away smiling. I always carry a copy of the law from the TSA website.
What slip? Every time I've flown with firearms, the little red slip stays with the gun case. Maybe that was your problem.
Jay Zenitram when I originally checked in with the firearm (American Airlines) I filled out the slip and it had a copy attached. They looked it over and then advised me to put one in the luggage and keep one on me. That was a first for me too.
Got it.
> I always carry a copy of the law from the TSA website.
THIS. Always carry a copy of the regulations with you...
I'm a SCORPIO.
By handling the situation in a non confrontational way, and being able to show them the law, you also gave them some training, which will be a great help to anybody else who flies with them with their firearms in the future. Thank You!
Lucky you being recognized. I've been through the same thing multiple times, as a CA resident, flying in and out of CA. I keep multiple copies of the law and I am NOT a jerk. Sometimes they bring me to the bag, but multiple times I have been told that I MUST relinquish my key or my stuff is getting left behind (which means I'm not getting on the plane because I chose this option once and when I got back to my case 4 days later, I found that they had STILL cut my locks off and re-"secured" my gun with one of those cheap POS TSA locks that looks like it came out of a quarter machine! Then they left my case sitting unattended in an unlocked baggage claim office).
When this happened in San Diego (for the second time), I asked the supervisor if he could take my phone back with him and video record the inspection of my case with the perspective showing nothing but MY stuff and the blue gloves of the inspector. I thought this was a pretty generous compromise on my part but, of course, they refused!
Frustrated beyond belief, I now use an old cell phone as a hidden camera inside my case for the next time the blue glove bullies force me to break the law! 😠
I know your pain!
Got information to check your channel and you as good as he said you would be , you are refreshing to see somebody with a great attitude so hope to see more of you! So thanks
49 CFR 1540.111 (c) is the regulation. I know John was talking a little fast. 😂
Too much coffee.
Didn't know about this "retained key" change in the law.
shall not be infringed, brother. that's the only gun law I know
@@frijoli9579 Shall Not Be Infringed
You're infringed and you know it. Otherwise, Make the video! I am all about the bill of rights. I push the boundaries of the laws about guns everyday. I pick my battles though, and so do you.
GREAT COMMENTARY..HELPS A LOT. KEEP IT COMING, YOUR A REAL PRO..👍🇺🇸👍
I also fly SW and have been "paged" several times. Like you, I always demand the SW agent escort ME to TSA so I can hand him the key/tell him the combination and "witness" the inspection.
One time I had flown and when I returned, "something" was missing. Since we don't 'inventory' as we pack, we don't really KNOW what we packed. When I got home, "something" was missing but I really didn't know what it was. I subsequently determined the one way to be able to lock my case -- put a gun in it. At first, I put the frame of an old 'demilitarized' 1911 in the case. By ATF, it IS a gun (frame/serial #) so I was able to lock my case.
SW doesn't know WTF but they will escort me and I chat with TSA to educate him on WHY I am there. When he accedes to my "request" I hand him the key/combination and watch thru the windowed door. They will not usually explain what they are looking for but one time, when he closed my Halliburton aluminum case/combination lock, there was a piece of a garment sticking out the side. When I pointed that out to him, he corrected it and locked the case.
One time I was transporting 9 boxes of 9 mm for a training course. I had taped them all together to they wouldn't get busted apart as the baggage manglers shake the sh8 out of the bags. Not being able to see outlines of bullets, they paged me and inspected. That time he explained why he needed to look.
EVERY time I meet any TSA I tell them that 9/11 would NEVER have happened if we were able to carry our personal guns aboard. Some sneer but many others agree with me.
Now, for the past ten years I carry a complete gun and feel secure that my bags are safe from pilferage.
You know how air marshals are the only ones able to carry guns on board an air craft? Or that they take many advanced training courses on how to avoid depressurising the cabin at all costs? Yeah you and any other random joe didn't take that course or get that memo that you'll kill everybody on board the aircraft clearly. Please do your research
Glad you stood your ground!
Great advice. The Golden Rule is still great advice, “do unto others as you want them to do unto you.” Gotta be like Jesus everyday, all day.
The TSA hiring requirements apparently are not very stringent. I had to be able to read to get my job as a shipping clerk. LOL Glad you made it through. I live near Detroit so I feel your pain.
I don't trust tsa, especially in Detoit.
I will believe they would of stole your stuff, if you handed them the key.
dm8867 I was thinking the same thing
Reality is most items that are stolen is when the items are being transported to the plane by the airline cargo employees.
Never heard of Detroit specifically so, I won't say you're wrong about that. I'd hate to think that anyone who would steal could get a job at TSA but, stranger things have happened I guess. If that's happened to you I sure am sorry.
John simply put,You are the BEST!!!
Great message. It’s easy to lose one’s cool especially when it comes to dealing with the TSA. Treating a stranger with kindness goes a long way.
John we are huge fans...Thank you Man of God... Ninja School Columbia City Seattle Me and my Husband would be blessed to have you out to teach at our Dojo R.R
Had a similar experience in San Jose, with a few differences. My safe had a biometric lock, so I was the key. In order for them to bring it out of the secure area, TSA had to get local PD to assist for some reason. Local SJPD brought me the case, the TSA guy poked around and cleared everything. While waiting, the SJPD tried to dissuade my desire to have a firearm because it is futile to store it properly according to the CA laws and think you can use it for self defense. My tongue bled from biting it so I could just get on my way. Missed my flight and arrived like 8hrs later.
We (TSA) absolutely cannot escort passengers into secure areas. Police can.
Will be traveling to Colorado from Wisconsin Thanksgiving break. Much love for these tips. Need to stay protected everywhere you go!!
I like the “ verbal judo” .. a great skill
Hey John nice job . I’ve learned many years ago that being kind and nice to people is the way to go. Things usually go your way but not always but most of the time. You get much more with honey the vinegar that’s for sure. Just treat people how you would like to be treated and things run real smoothly. Glad you had a great trip look forward to your next video. Ron
@Acitve Self Protecition Extra Ah, I went down the 49 CFR 1540. 111c rabbit hole and see what you are referring to. BUT I also looked further regarding the law for packing ammunition and found this on the TSA websdie, "Firearms must be unloaded and locked in a hard-sided container and transported as checked baggage only. As defined by 49 CFR 1540.5 a loaded firearm has a live round of ammunition, or any component thereof, in the chamber or cylinder or in a magazine inserted in the firearm. Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock UNLESS TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations". So, there is that as well.
I was flying TDY with a small group for the Army from San Francisco back to NC and ran into the same issue. The TSA there wasn't willing to budge so I got the supervisors name, informed my boss of the situation and did a 100% inventory as soon as we were back in possession of the gun cases. Thankfully everything was still there but I was taken back with their lack of cooperation with DOD travelers.
So funny, I had the exact same scenario happen at Phoenix airport when Vicki and I visited you years ago. I handled it the same way.
I learned that most of the TSA staff don’t actually know these or airline rules. Carrying a copy of the regs helps a lot. Kindness always helps too!
Kindness always helps. Hope you’re well!
Sounds like you run into my brother-in-law who happens to be a supervisor at Detroit TSA. And yes his name is Thomas. Sorry I missed your class here, but the supervisor you run into had an incident where a man tried to shoot him in the chest with a firearm that fully functioned but the primer was dead. I advised him you should be playing the lotto. Next time you're in Detroit you might want to ask Thomas about that.
I hope one day to have the wisdom and maturity to approach these irritating situations with such a positive outlook, and to be able to remain professional and level headed like you. Stay safe brother!
Way to go John
Thanks!
Thx John, I’m traveling out of Detroit in 2 months with Spirit, I’m hoping my experience will be smooth, and no hassles.
The fact you were recognized is the reason everything was so easy. Anyone else would have had a fight, no matter what the law says.
Nah, I've never had a problem. I keep two copies of 49 CFR 1540.111 (c) printed out in my carry-on. Whenever there has been a request for my combo/keys, I just say, "The laws says I cannot. I have a copy of the law here for your reference." Two copies - one to hand them, one for me to keep.
Another key point is be at the airport 2 hours before your flight. It also goes along very well.
It’s sad when you have to teach them about laws they’re supposed to be following
Hey John. I noticed a while back that you are looking more fit. Great job. Very inspiring. And thanks for your videos.
Give a little man a uniform and he's still a little man.
Flew from Seattle to Spokane, TSA made sure my ammo was in an original box/plastic ammo case. Bag zip-tied and was brought directly to me upon arrival. Flying back, TSA had me load all my ammo in magazines in front of everyone. They did not zip-tie the bag and sent it out on the carousel with all the other bags.
Would you cancel/lose $ if they said nope like cops say to "constitutionalist" when they recite random laws? U still watch anti Police NFL?
I am not into ideological purity checks.
Them asking for your key sounds innocent but you have to wonder what their real motive was for wanting to open the case in a secure area where you were not allowed to witness it. The reason you are supposed to be the only one who has access to the lock is because you are responsible for that firearm, had something been taken out of the case in the secure area you would have been responsible for it since you gave them the key. You have to wonder if they were trying to steal from you thinking you had no clue of the law. Most people in your situation would have handed over the key thinking that the TSA agent had the authority to demand that you give it to them. Had they gotten the key and stolen your gun you would not have known about it until you were in another city hours later and since you were supposed to have the only key and there was no sign of tampering you would likely either be out of luck in trying to get it recovered or be in trouble yourself for giving up the key to the TSA agent. What they did just doesn't pass the smell test.
Well you're very lucky that someone recognized you otherwise your kindness might not have meant a damned thing.
You can use TSA locks, per the TSA website and it was explained to me by TSA at the Jacksonville airport:
Firearms must be unloaded and locked in a hard-sided container and transported as checked baggage only. As defined by 49 CFR 1540.5 a loaded firearm has a live round of ammunition, or any component thereof, in the chamber or cylinder or in a magazine inserted in the firearm. Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock unless TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations. You may use any brand or type of lock to secure your firearm case, including TSA-recognized locks.
Police your emotions people. Two things you can never take back, hurtful words spoken in anger and bullets fired from a gun.
Can't put back toothpaste either
Love that smile in the thumbnail! God bless ya John.
Pure nosiness from the TSA
I worked for TSA for almost five year's and I am glad you handled this situation well. You were correct in this case. Glad you know your law.
I worked for a small airport so we didn't have an X-Ray machine so we had to inspect any firearm manually that came in. So everything we would call the passenger back and he or she would give us the key and we would unlock it in front of them and they would watch us carefully inspect it.
A big airport with a x ray machine you can clear it with just the x ray so I'm not sure why they had to open it. Glad this situation got resolved professionally by both parties
Every time***
The funny thing, a person doesn't need to pray to remember to be kind. Some people can just be kind for secular reasons.
Never said you had to pray to remember to be kind, but the Lord reminded me to be kind.
I had the same thing happen to me, they tried to tell me I had to put tsa locks on my case. I told them no way, nobody is to have access but me. They wanted to inspect it and asked for me to give them the keys. I refused and come to find out they destroyed my bag and didn’t want me to see it. They had to give me a new suitcase and inspected my firearm in my presence.
Great message Mr. John. Thank you Sir.
I've had problems flying out of Detroit with American Airlines myself. I won't do that again. At check in they couldn't decide if ammo had to be in the original box or locked in a separate hard sided case for some reason. They also put it straight on the conveyor like you said, it worried me but the woman said it was how they do it there. Then, when I got to Phoenix, the bag just came down the normal conveyor belt, with a big red tag that says "steel me! I have a firearm in here." Normally my bag gets held and I need to show ID to pick it up; that seems like the right way to do it, but not with American Airlines.
Same thing happened to me from Charleston (CHS) to Denver (DEN). My biggest concern is that TSA/airline agents are not aware of the federal laws associated with transporting firearms. Unbeknownst to them, they are asking you to break federal law for convenience sake.
You are looking really good John. Almost didn't recognize you. Thank you for the video.