Teclis, Mazdamundi and Kairos should be able to select any number of spells the player is willing to pay for that make sense for that character to be using.
Teclis' special rule is he either has all the spells of High or one from each lore. Mazdamundi picks one lore for the battle and gets all the spells for it, Kairos always has all the Tzeentch spells and picks his others from the normal lores but has limits on which combinations he can cast in a turn (one head knows four of the lores the other head knows the other four). Only Kairos ever got as many spells as Mannfred. Mannfred is a fucking neeeerd.
Khalida also needs a rethink. She's supposed to be a duelist but she has a 35m radius passive buff to ranged units and an explosion which doesn't really disrupt infantry that much to get her through to her target and a relatively low mass mount.
Honeslty don't have much bad to say about khalida, as a dueling lord. Her poison explosion is great against characters and can even punch up into monsters and such. It's the rest of her kit that doesn't work. The poison staff thing is just beyond useless and needs at least a near 100 percent buff on everything it does. And her ranged ability buff is just awful especially given that tomb kings don't even need the buffs for the most part.
I think the biggest problem is that she's one of those lords that are supposed to buff their whole army but otherwise just be kinda okay. A campaign buff lord. So far, CA is very bad about finding ways to adapt lords/heroes like that well for both skirmish and campaign.
@@xxXEAMxx She doesn't buff her army in campaign though? She has one buff to Sepulchral Stalkers and bonus to ammo to tier 1 skeleton archers for the faction. Then her aura for archers which, once again, is only 35m on a duellist character who should be nowhere near any archers. She's got a power budget split between being a backline commander and a duellist. (She needs even more work in Campaign precisely because she does so little for the faction, doesn't even add to a unit or hero cap like the other TK lords)
@@xxXEAMxx She gives her army poison attacks (all units not just archers) on her lord trait but almost every LL does something to their army on their lord trait, that's not really making her an army buff lord.
Agreed on Teclis should be able to select from all the basic lores + high magic. DISAGREE on giving Teclis any more mounts. In the lore, he NEVER rides mounts into battle. He hates mounts. In the Table Top game, he was only ever available ON FOOT. That was his downside. One of the most powerful spellcasters in the game. Amazing! BUT. Very weak in melee and vulnerable if not protected because he was always on foot. That's how he should be in TW, but CA gave him a pity horse like they did with Kemmler (who can FLY on his own and never rode a mount either) and THEN when they introduced the arcane phoenix DLC instead of introducing the High Elf legendary hero who rides a phoenix, they gave it to Teclis as a mount in THE DUMBEST decision ever made by anyone involved in Warhammer. It's effing blasphemy to give a mage as powerful as Teclis a monstrous flying mount completely going against his lore and table top rules. I HATE IT and I don't even like high elves. I'm mad for them. I'm making my angry face right now!
Agree on the mount, they should let him levitate instead (there is a mod actually). But the chariot with a driver makes more sense than the other mounts, he is not riding anything, just taking a ride.
The game must be in a really good place if the worst decision of 8 years you believe was giving Teclis that mount. Id have given him an Eagle too personally, not phoenix, but come on. The 'I dont like high elves' part really shows there.
@@Grivehn lots of people love high elves and don't want a mount for teclis to respect his lore. His frailness makes him interesting. For me, the phoenix mount is like "woah Gandalf riding a dragon would be awesome"
Strong disagree on Teclis needing more mount options. CA giving him the Arcane Phoenix was a sad thing that really made him more generic and uninteresting. Instead of him being a squishy caster that could pop his sword and potions for a brief burst of melee potential, he became just another hybrid, flying about and raining spells from above. For sure give him more spell options though.
So, going by table top roles for funsies: 1. Repanse: she's actually something more like an anti-magic specialist, and while she'd really be better as a hero for that, being able to protect buffed peasant lines from Burning Head should have synergy to it. 2. Kroq-Gar: he should be doing damage every time he loses a certain amount of his health, punishing the use of SEMs and low count units against him by making sure that any goon squad attacking him is going to take damage. That sets up the more expensive Skinks to cause problems for enemy mobs who have to deal with him, and taking a healer for him isn't as punishing because the healing is sorta doing damage too. 3. Teclis: yeah, needs to be a better caster. 4. Epi-pen. Tally of Pestilence is nowhere near as strong as it should be: it should be giving ward save and more AP when it's maxing out, not just Physical Resistance and MA. He's supposed to punish people for playing Nurgle's attrition game, and that punishment should be very harsh. 5. Tretch: he's not really lord material, but yeah, he should be given incentives for him to run away, and Tretch's Raiders should probably give Stalk or something at least.
I think you brought up a great point about Epidemius buffing Nurgle's already strong attrition. The main problem I see with him is that he pretty much does the exact same thing as someone like Ku'gath, yet needs to take a spell-caster as well which eats into any cost savings. The same things that counter Ku'gath also counter Epidemius, so I struggle to find any purpose for him to serve. The one use I have found for him is using the exalted plaguebearer summon's ranged attack to punish monsters and cavalry.
Wasn't Teclis riding a gryphon and not eagle in Giantslayer? Anyhow Epidemius' big issues are that he is a very immobile lord in a roster that tends to get shot to death. And the units that he buffs are not good in the nurgle roster. The buffs themselves are decent since you don't really build magic damage against nurgle and nurgle daemons don't really have good MA. I think the simplest way fix him is to just keeping the entity death radius what it is for the aura, while making the buff radius global or insanely large like 300m. If he was giving +15MA and +20% phys res to rot flies globally lategame it would be legit reason to take him over other lord options. Also Sands of Sickness buff is not affecting himself so that should probably be fixed.
before watching: honorable mention to Throgg who needs a complete voice redesign. I also don't really like that mod that changes his voice. It isn't monstrous enough. He needs to have a guttural, beastly voice, not just a "deep voice," but speaking like you'd expect a charismatic, intelligent warlord to be, but you can tell he is absolutely not human. I think he looks kind of generic too but I imagine that is more so GW's fault than anyone's.
Dogs of war is a mercenary thing though. I think it would take away from her pirate identity, and in lore she is shown as pretty much despising the idea of contracts and responsibility towards an employer - she opened fire on the empire when they tried to enlist her. She generally only acts according to her own motives. But her roster does need a rework. She needs her undead units replaced with empire troops and Ogres, and her tech tree needs to be unique and free from undead ties. Her lords and heroes also need to be reworked. In general, it's going to be a big overhaul that I don't really know if we'll see anytime soon.
@@SpiceCh Dogs of War always had a notable pirate presence, and Sartosa's identity is pretty heavily tied to them, so it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to make her the "pirate side" of a mercenary faction. At a minimum, it would work better than what she has going on now.
@@Grivehn Yes lol. When he first came out I tried out his Quest Battle from the Main Menu and he did not have any of his abilities.. he was literally just a herald of nurgle with no spells who could only melee. oof
Tretch's kit is really flavourfull. Stay here ill get help is basically him lying and using others as a distraction. The raiders skill is basically a joke that skaven are only good when they have an advantage but against equal force they are not good. His design is perfect in the sense that it does exactly what his character is supposed to be about.
I know Tretch gets a lot of hate, but I can't really hold it against him because its such a great representation of the biggest backstabber in a faction of backstabbers. Plus he was a FLC Lord, so I don't mind him being underpowered/Quirky.
Tretch is my favorite Skaven LL, and one of my favorite Lords in general, because he is exactly what I think of when I think of Skaven. All of the other Skaven LLs are exceptional in some way, but Tretch is just a coward who steals credit and backstabs others and watches his own back.
@@aidanc9396 - A lot of my favourites are FLC for that reason. They're goofy, fun, and very unlike most other campaigns. Rakarth, Alith Anar, Tretch...give me something interesting to do. How much power they have is less of a concern.
Nonsense making Repanse a melee grinder when all 3 other LLs are debatably better at that. Even her campaign skills are about buffing peasants. She should have been a glorious icon of the Lady that makes the mantide playstyle extra beefy. You know, like how Joan of Arc actually was. There's pretty much nothing canonically about Repanse that makes her a good fighter.
She should be more of a supportive/inspirational character, I agree. Like a Grail Reliquae on steroids. She could still be able to pack a wallop with the sword she's carrying though.
In campaing she gives ward save to peasants and melee defense to questing knights they could just import that to multiplayer and it would probably be fine tbh
@@L0LDRAGON bringing campaign mechanics to multi-player would be a massive undertaking and wouldn't make the game mode better. If Repanse is weak, make her current abilities stronger instead.
@@SpiceCh oops forgot that they dont allow unit specific buffs in multiplayer, so mby include the 5% ward save into banner of Fleur de Lys and increase the effective range from 35 to something greater like 50 or even more
Your point about nurgle not needing attack is absurd, nurgle demons have absurd base melee damage with low melee attack. Whether it's actually good or worthwhile is another question, but absolutely if i want to buff one stat on a plaguebearer it's melee attack.
Teclis should fly as an infantry lord. In the lore both he and Kemmler magically fly. And in campaign teclis is a great caster because he gets cheap spells. I think he should get more spell mastery.
As you brought up, Teclis in lore hates animals, so that insanely high price for the Arcane Phoenix is nowhere near expensive enough to get him to be willing to ride it. Never should have been a mount option for him to begin with. And if you say "He'd suck without it!" then that's a problem that would need to be fixed, not a simple band-aid solution like giving people who never had mounts more and more powerful mounts. Wulfrik is another example of a character that sucks at his job, so they gave him an OP mount instead of making him function at his job.
The biggest issue overall is that Characters, units, etc are all designed with campaign in mind, but balanced around multiplayer. This leads to some falling apart very quickly. Epi is a very good example of this.
It would be cool if epidemius got an ability that charged based on how many debuffs are applied by him or the nurgle army abilities. Hell, he could even increase the effects of the army abilities, making it so people actually have to fight him. And that way his movespeed debuff will get actual use from people trying to escape him
I like your tretch rework idea, especially since as you mentioned he has no identity now and all his abilities conflict with each other. Plus the idea of a Skaven general who you're basically playing hide and seek with while others do his dirty work just feels very skavenous.
Having a non-spellcaster LL who shouldnt be fighting whatsoever is kind of funny, but I feel like it would grow insufferable quickly, both in campaign and mp. For campaign youd be playing with 19 units, and for mp, you launch with not just a Lord which should cost 0 if you do nothing with him, but an active character you need to protect, otherwise you'll get minus 16/8 leadership.
Teclis could have Lore of High magic plus what he already has. Maybe remove regrowth and give him something else becouse healing OP, I want variety. Also, in my opinion, they should remove the arcane pigeon, he is supposed to be a squishy caster not the tanky monster that mount offers him.
Deathmaster Sniktch rework i want most. He shouldn't even be a lord, should be a goated assassin and a hero. Give him some sort of ranged shuriken ability, maybe a teleport or an escape spell with an actual assasin ability like all other assasins get
I disagree on your opinion on deadly onslaught Frist a 60% charge bonus is 67*1.6=107 so it only gives him a extra 40 attack and damage, and while that will be more useful in the latter seconds of the charge bonus its not game changing. Instead deadly Onslaught gives 663 weapon strength or a extra 130 damage per hit for 31 seconds. That is a extra hit for every 4 attacks and with his +30 bonus vs large I don't see him missing other large monsters that often. Bonus damage is also far more useful vs high health models or single entities which are often large anyway. Problem is His weapon strength is just to low this is fixed in campaign though his last defender title (+1% ws per level).
How to fix rapanse: make her buff and debuff being and area that you can target, and then let her give blessing of the lady to a unit for a short duration
Trench should get unflankable and a bunch of missile resistance. That way you could take him with only Stand or Die and pay maybe 850 points or so for a tiny lord thats really hard to kill and can fight large slow enemies somewhat.
Funnily enough, I used Tretch to win a lot of Skaven matches in Domination. I genuinely think he has a niche. He makes the frontline not run the fuck away at the slightest contact if you use slaves or clanrats and he can do okay damage if he grinds forever which tends to happen in Domination. Besides, he doesn't get sniped by duelists very well and it's almost always not cost-effective and he's VERY cheap. I think Tretch's raiders should be a Stormvermin Sword and Board RoR and not an ability(it was in TT). So his niche is being very cheap and doesn't fucking die. If the game goes long he pretty much always pays for himself in my experience. He definetly needs buffs to compete with Ikit or Throt tho. He's pretty obviously terrible in LB/Conquest tho which sucks
Tretch should get devastating flanker in mp too, because he innately has it in campaign and it's what his ENTIRE kit is built around. It's why he has the unspottable stalk ability, so that he can flee melee and come back to charge a flank. IDK if that makes him good per se, but it al LEAST makes his mp design coherent instead of having abilities that seem super out of place. Also he should have AP dmg... like he basically has a halberd with how massive his one weapon is. His Lucky Skullhelm is better with devastating flanker in mind too, but I always thought it was way too much of a gimmick. Especially with how "combat potential" is in the game's calculations of determining who should be "winning" melee combat -- like that it's biased towards multiple units when fighting less units for example, so if Tretch is fighting two units then the item will be more likely to be active even if it's a pretty even or favorable fight. I think one change they could make is that Skullhelm is always active, but only out of melee (maybe with a short cooldown recharging out of melee, IDK balance). This makes it really hard to spell snipe him as long as he is able to flee melee and not get pinned down by higher mass (which he does have anti-large for, although it's not an ideal situation for him either way). So I think this makes it a lot easier to play around as both the Tretch player and also the Tretch's opponent while still playing to his style and theme. I think they can keep a "losing/winning melee" passive effect somewhere in his kit, but it's not ideal in it's current implementation. I can think of two ways they can do this: 1- They already figured out ONE way to properly do these sorts of effects with the empire flagellants' "Strength from Penitent" ability -- The condition isn't what enables the ability, it's what recharges it. This way the ability's effect isn't even able to oscillate between on and off, therefore becomming a lot more reliable and consistent. IDK what duration and cooldown would be balanced for the "Tretch's Raiders" ability in this context, but I think a good starting point would be 20 sec duration and 5 sec cooldown and the ability no longer targets all units in range, only 1 or 2 (prioritizing winning units and higher tier units) but since the ability originates from Tretch it would obveously need to recharge when those targeted units are winning, not Tretch. This option keeps the essence of the "unit is (actively) losing" condition from the original ability and adds consistency in exchange for the introduced cooldown. 2- They could do something similar to the Norscan "Rage" ability where the ability is always active with no conditional, but the intensity is increased by the condition (This version doesn't really need to target a limited amount of units as I think it would be overall weaker compared to option 1, so I don't think that's necessary). The longer that affected units are winning, the more melee attack and weapon strength they get. This option keeps the "100% uptime" part of the original ability and adds consistency in exchange for initial potency. ps- Whenever I say unit I mean a full unit, not # of entities. Putting this here to avoid possible confusions.
Kroq-Gar needs to have his spear as an item in MP; Maybe give him magic damage by default, and have the actual item give him a contact effect and added weapon strength or something. I always thought he was super weak, you really never see him in play at all except back during the TWW2 early days.
Non-lord daemonic Nurgle units that weren't mentioned: plagueridden, rot flies and plague drones, soul grinders, furies, BoNs, and GUOs. On top of daemon infantry and your toad-based units, that's a fairly broad set of units to buff, and I don't know where "they already have high melee attack but low damage" is coming from.
I'll grant that Epi could make a late-game SEM deathball even stronger, but if you have fliers in a late game they probably aren't going to be near the 28 speed lord too often. maybe if it wasn't a charge-over-time thing, or was map-wide it could work for those units.
My three ideas; Rapanse: give her Icon of Devotion and make her a fast grail reliquae (maybe for an additional gold cost, like a selectable ability). The numeric buffs aren't that great, but having a horse-speed ITP generator is golden for Brettonia. Epidemius: So for him I had a great Idea. You know how Nurgle now charges based on enemies being affected by debuffs? well make his tally ability strengthen debuffs, like make them last three times as long at full charge, maybe even being a mortis engine or causing a leadership penalty vs debuffed targets . He would still get owned by archers, but anything that closes in is going to regret that poisoned debuff even more. Tretch: I really feel like this guy should be able to give stealth to nearby infantry. Not to the monsters or war machines, but his story is outflanking and surprising enemies with his troops through surprising cunning and secret routes, so make him a Skaven coatl. The suggestions for Krokgar and Teclis don't have much to add, tbh.
Aranessa should dismount once she drops to 0 HP, then respawn on foot to swap from support to duelist and make use of those cool animations. Wouldn't even be that strong in her current state.
Disagree about epidemius - his buffs are really really good, and he's great for making plaguebearers do well against factions without a good way to bring magic damage in the front line and which can't shoot him down easily - e.g. GS, LM, SKV, NRS, etc. And Plaguebearers have great WS (48!) and bad MA. The Physres makes them VERY tanky.
@@betrayer1350 the irony is Thorek is FLC. To be fair, Thorgrim has better stats, and his +8 melee attack and +15% WS aura is nice. And, on average, he does more damage than Thorek to targets with less than 110 armor. But Thorek provides immune to psychology to nearby allies, -15 armor to nearby enemies, causes enemy casters to explode and saves you the cost of having to bring a Runesmith. Thorgrim either needs a new ability, or his High King ability needs to be buffed. Maybe it needs to be map-wide, but I'm not sure that would be enough.
Both Noctilus and Luthor are better duelists than Aranessa. As you said, make her a support lord. Buff the range of her trident to 55m radius, and buff the net. Same goes for repanse, the banner should give the blessing of the lady to all peasant units in a 55m radius. Epidemius buff should apply to all units, and then it's pretty darn good and worth while.
Pretty much only play as Kroq Gar and I used hand of the gods less then a dozen times. Just not worth halting his momentum and making himself a target to ranged himself. It's a lame skink priest fireball but on someone with no time to use it.
Gor'Rok is an absolute chad, just a shame his buffs for Saurus warriors don't also buff up temple guard, they are technically saurus units so they should imo
@@Fr1kaD3ll37 I think Gor-Rok should buff Saurus and Temple guard, unless we get Chakax the Eternity warden some day as a legendary hero to buff temple guard. If that isn't the case Gor-Roks buffs should include temple guard. on his combat side I wish he had some sort of ground slam like Harald Hammerstorm to clear some chaff. He has no problem tanking the greatest of hits, but I just wish he had a way to chew through chaff faster as the the Saurian roadblock that he is.
@@Rich50v I agree, unless they give that role to Chakax the eternity warden down the line. Combat wise I wish he had a ground slam instead of Deadly onslaught. He NEVER charges so that skill is even more useless on him than on Kroq-Gar and something to clear the chaff would be really cool.
Kroq Gar I think is close to being good and he definitly does work if hand of the gods is good in a MU. His best mount atm is the horned one imo. It's kinda weird why epidemius doesn't work. in theory the extra melee attack for plague bearers should be really strong cause they are basically saurus warriors with pretty insane WS but low MA. it's probably just grindy inf being weak atm and nurgle as a faction sucking balls Tretch feels okay, he's just a cheap tanky dork that can't really be sniped in melee. Just giving him more speed buffs could be okay so he can run around more and be even more annoying to kill. And maybe make him a bit cheaper. Maybe also immune to flanking so he doesn't take backshots while running away. I like that he is still relatively snipeable by spells, you already have different anti spell snipe lord options on skaven. Afaik he is also already solid in Dom.
Honestly, out of all available factions, Bretonnia is the one I would pick for a rework, if only because I have played it the least as it feels like the most barebones and bland faction. But, I would love to jump in and see what it's like revitalized
Bretonnia units did get a rework last year, and their top tier knights are some, if not the best in the game right now. Which is fine now, with healing nerfs. Their LL are insane, their archers are insane, their infantry is meh as it should be. They should get more on campaign things and admittedly fix to their bad characters, like Repanse and Green Knight. But thats all. They ARE bland as a faction, theyre supposed to be. Theyre the most historical faction in one of the wildest fantasy settings.
I do like Kroq’Gar as is, although I agree spawn and onslaught are trash. I think you underestimate the power of horsegar in the more kite-centric builds. He’s very Horserik.
Skavens are totally power creeped by their counter parts. Ikit, eshin and moulder do things better, have interesting mechanics which make the other 3 lords obselete
Trecht is ok because we need shit lords so that we have a low point. And aranessa should get a water unicorn mount with 110 speed + 300 health and she would be fine because her biggest problem is she is slow and the other lords are very good but than she could have a niche.
Eltharion also needs a rework his way overpriced for being mid at everything ither make him relly good burst assassin like franz or make him a relly good general like gorbad
I disagree. I think horses are fine as your bottom tier mount option. Special horses could be buffed individually if need be, but casters and regular stat stick lords and heroes on horses don't need particular buffs. If you're referring to Repanse, I think her strengths should lie in her ability to buff peasants rather than her ability as a duelist, but the Sword of Lyonesse is still a powerful weapon in its own right, and she should be able to fight off lesser lords and chase down casters as a result. And I think her current version works well, even if some misunderstand what her purpose is. Louen is your duelist lord for Bretonnia.
Its not that horses are awful, but they do get surrounded and beaten down. Whilst infantry characters cant. Id counter with foot characters need to be able to get knocked down and take dmg for it, because they cant be surrounded by as many models as a horse. Nor shot at that well.
-Franz is a leader first and a fighter second cus he uses the most powerful weapon in the lore so that counts I guess... We don't see that in game. We see him only as a sort of tomahawk missile aimed at the enemy important units ONLY WHEN buffed by a lore of life wizard... I would expect a char with some dueling power if he chooses to get Ghal (who should be an INSANE weapon that costs alot to get) BUT most of his power should come from buffing his troops! The logistics side of his power should manifest in summoning granding the ability to get some electro count units instead of the default ones! You know make him unique! Cus the role of unhinged tomahawk missile would fit alex jon... I mean Boris toddbringer so much more! -Also Gelt is outdated and power crept to hell... 80% of the dwarf lords too... I mean compare them to Chaoes dwarfs... Yhe so many old factions need a pass to correct the power creep on their lords and heros!
@@Harisankar.P Read what I said again please. I mentioned he should NOT be a duelist just one that CAN somewhat duel with the active of the op weapons... I mean it is THE WARHAMMER! As he is now HE IS a duelist and I don't think it is correct and fitting to the character!
Teclis is the greates caster huh. Have you heard of slaans before? What about kairos? What about big daddy nagash? I swear both him and balthasar are overhyped af.
Balthazar isn't that strong and only has 1 lore of magici hes just hyped up because of the memes Teclis is the best mortal caster on par with the slans tho not as strong as mazda obviously
Teclis, Mazdamundi and Kairos should be able to select any number of spells the player is willing to pay for that make sense for that character to be using.
Teclis' special rule is he either has all the spells of High or one from each lore. Mazdamundi picks one lore for the battle and gets all the spells for it, Kairos always has all the Tzeentch spells and picks his others from the normal lores but has limits on which combinations he can cast in a turn (one head knows four of the lores the other head knows the other four).
Only Kairos ever got as many spells as Mannfred. Mannfred is a fucking neeeerd.
Mazda should be able to get a cataclysm spell. I mean he did move a continent that one time
@@JackdotC I concur. The Slanns have some huge cataclysm spells. Also, Slann magic should be beyond anything else, maybe a whole new book of lore.
@@JackdotCIm pretty sure thats what ruination of cities is meant to be... it needs some serious buffs
@@AshenVictorNerds, you disgust me!(quote from another human boy video lol)
Khalida also needs a rethink. She's supposed to be a duelist but she has a 35m radius passive buff to ranged units and an explosion which doesn't really disrupt infantry that much to get her through to her target and a relatively low mass mount.
Honeslty don't have much bad to say about khalida, as a dueling lord. Her poison explosion is great against characters and can even punch up into monsters and such. It's the rest of her kit that doesn't work. The poison staff thing is just beyond useless and needs at least a near 100 percent buff on everything it does. And her ranged ability buff is just awful especially given that tomb kings don't even need the buffs for the most part.
I think the biggest problem is that she's one of those lords that are supposed to buff their whole army but otherwise just be kinda okay. A campaign buff lord. So far, CA is very bad about finding ways to adapt lords/heroes like that well for both skirmish and campaign.
@@xxXEAMxx She doesn't buff her army in campaign though? She has one buff to Sepulchral Stalkers and bonus to ammo to tier 1 skeleton archers for the faction. Then her aura for archers which, once again, is only 35m on a duellist character who should be nowhere near any archers.
She's got a power budget split between being a backline commander and a duellist.
(She needs even more work in Campaign precisely because she does so little for the faction, doesn't even add to a unit or hero cap like the other TK lords)
@@AshenVictor Doesn't she give all archers in her army poison attacks?
@@xxXEAMxx She gives her army poison attacks (all units not just archers) on her lord trait but almost every LL does something to their army on their lord trait, that's not really making her an army buff lord.
Agreed on Teclis should be able to select from all the basic lores + high magic. DISAGREE on giving Teclis any more mounts. In the lore, he NEVER rides mounts into battle. He hates mounts. In the Table Top game, he was only ever available ON FOOT. That was his downside. One of the most powerful spellcasters in the game. Amazing! BUT. Very weak in melee and vulnerable if not protected because he was always on foot. That's how he should be in TW, but CA gave him a pity horse like they did with Kemmler (who can FLY on his own and never rode a mount either) and THEN when they introduced the arcane phoenix DLC instead of introducing the High Elf legendary hero who rides a phoenix, they gave it to Teclis as a mount in THE DUMBEST decision ever made by anyone involved in Warhammer. It's effing blasphemy to give a mage as powerful as Teclis a monstrous flying mount completely going against his lore and table top rules. I HATE IT and I don't even like high elves. I'm mad for them. I'm making my angry face right now!
In the rebooted Fantasy, they're giving High Elf mages a bunch of mount options now. The elf-favoritism is insufferable.
Agree on the mount, they should let him levitate instead (there is a mod actually). But the chariot with a driver makes more sense than the other mounts, he is not riding anything, just taking a ride.
Eh, any mount that makes Teclis competent in melee removes the whole point of his physical frailty and the need for his potion of charoi.
The game must be in a really good place if the worst decision of 8 years you believe was giving Teclis that mount. Id have given him an Eagle too personally, not phoenix, but come on.
The 'I dont like high elves' part really shows there.
@@Grivehn lots of people love high elves and don't want a mount for teclis to respect his lore. His frailness makes him interesting. For me, the phoenix mount is like "woah Gandalf riding a dragon would be awesome"
Strong disagree on Teclis needing more mount options. CA giving him the Arcane Phoenix was a sad thing that really made him more generic and uninteresting. Instead of him being a squishy caster that could pop his sword and potions for a brief burst of melee potential, he became just another hybrid, flying about and raining spells from above.
For sure give him more spell options though.
So, going by table top roles for funsies:
1. Repanse: she's actually something more like an anti-magic specialist, and while she'd really be better as a hero for that, being able to protect buffed peasant lines from Burning Head should have synergy to it.
2. Kroq-Gar: he should be doing damage every time he loses a certain amount of his health, punishing the use of SEMs and low count units against him by making sure that any goon squad attacking him is going to take damage. That sets up the more expensive Skinks to cause problems for enemy mobs who have to deal with him, and taking a healer for him isn't as punishing because the healing is sorta doing damage too.
3. Teclis: yeah, needs to be a better caster.
4. Epi-pen. Tally of Pestilence is nowhere near as strong as it should be: it should be giving ward save and more AP when it's maxing out, not just Physical Resistance and MA. He's supposed to punish people for playing Nurgle's attrition game, and that punishment should be very harsh.
5. Tretch: he's not really lord material, but yeah, he should be given incentives for him to run away, and Tretch's Raiders should probably give Stalk or something at least.
I think you brought up a great point about Epidemius buffing Nurgle's already strong attrition. The main problem I see with him is that he pretty much does the exact same thing as someone like Ku'gath, yet needs to take a spell-caster as well which eats into any cost savings. The same things that counter Ku'gath also counter Epidemius, so I struggle to find any purpose for him to serve. The one use I have found for him is using the exalted plaguebearer summon's ranged attack to punish monsters and cavalry.
Wasn't Teclis riding a gryphon and not eagle in Giantslayer?
Anyhow Epidemius' big issues are that he is a very immobile lord in a roster that tends to get shot to death. And the units that he buffs are not good in the nurgle roster. The buffs themselves are decent since you don't really build magic damage against nurgle and nurgle daemons don't really have good MA. I think the simplest way fix him is to just keeping the entity death radius what it is for the aura, while making the buff radius global or insanely large like 300m. If he was giving +15MA and +20% phys res to rot flies globally lategame it would be legit reason to take him over other lord options. Also Sands of Sickness buff is not affecting himself so that should probably be fixed.
Or give missile resistance or magic resist instead of physical
Teclis generally seems to dislike mounts of any kind because he's weak and susceptible to the rough and tumble of traveling
Teclis rides a Gryphon and a Pegasus in the books
It was a gryphon if memory serves me right.
@@SpiceCh And despite his magical potential and the general bond elves share with their mounts, he's abysmal at keeping his mounts alive, iirc.
before watching: honorable mention to Throgg who needs a complete voice redesign. I also don't really like that mod that changes his voice. It isn't monstrous enough. He needs to have a guttural, beastly voice, not just a "deep voice," but speaking like you'd expect a charismatic, intelligent warlord to be, but you can tell he is absolutely not human.
I think he looks kind of generic too but I imagine that is more so GW's fault than anyone's.
The fix that Aranessa needs is for Dogs of War to be introduced and for her to move to their roster...
Pleeeeeease CA don't fuck up Dogs of War...
Dogs of war is a mercenary thing though. I think it would take away from her pirate identity, and in lore she is shown as pretty much despising the idea of contracts and responsibility towards an employer - she opened fire on the empire when they tried to enlist her. She generally only acts according to her own motives.
But her roster does need a rework. She needs her undead units replaced with empire troops and Ogres, and her tech tree needs to be unique and free from undead ties. Her lords and heroes also need to be reworked. In general, it's going to be a big overhaul that I don't really know if we'll see anytime soon.
@@SpiceCh Dogs of War always had a notable pirate presence, and Sartosa's identity is pretty heavily tied to them, so it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to make her the "pirate side" of a mercenary faction. At a minimum, it would work better than what she has going on now.
@@SpiceCh yeah pirates and mercenaries have nothing in common
Aranessa having a bunch of tilean pikemen is even more janky than her having undead pirates
I can barely tell the difference between Epidemius and a regular Herald of Nurgle. That has to be the most derp Lord in this game.
The most f2p Lord in every sense of the word.
@@Grivehn Yes lol. When he first came out I tried out his Quest Battle from the Main Menu and he did not have any of his abilities.. he was literally just a herald of nurgle with no spells who could only melee. oof
@@Sleepingdruid37 The 'no spells' part, when flying Herald has Lore of Nurgle/Death made me not ever want to play as him, too.
Tretch's kit is really flavourfull. Stay here ill get help is basically him lying and using others as a distraction. The raiders skill is basically a joke that skaven are only good when they have an advantage but against equal force they are not good. His design is perfect in the sense that it does exactly what his character is supposed to be about.
I know Tretch gets a lot of hate, but I can't really hold it against him because its such a great representation of the biggest backstabber in a faction of backstabbers.
Plus he was a FLC Lord, so I don't mind him being underpowered/Quirky.
Tretch is my favorite Skaven LL, and one of my favorite Lords in general, because he is exactly what I think of when I think of Skaven. All of the other Skaven LLs are exceptional in some way, but Tretch is just a coward who steals credit and backstabs others and watches his own back.
@@aidanc9396 - A lot of my favourites are FLC for that reason. They're goofy, fun, and very unlike most other campaigns.
Rakarth, Alith Anar, Tretch...give me something interesting to do. How much power they have is less of a concern.
Nonsense making Repanse a melee grinder when all 3 other LLs are debatably better at that. Even her campaign skills are about buffing peasants.
She should have been a glorious icon of the Lady that makes the mantide playstyle extra beefy. You know, like how Joan of Arc actually was.
There's pretty much nothing canonically about Repanse that makes her a good fighter.
She should be more of a supportive/inspirational character, I agree. Like a Grail Reliquae on steroids. She could still be able to pack a wallop with the sword she's carrying though.
In campaing she gives ward save to peasants and melee defense to questing knights they could just import that to multiplayer and it would probably be fine tbh
also lower the cooldown for halo of maidenly wrath so she can more often debuff enemies and get out of being stuck
@@L0LDRAGON bringing campaign mechanics to multi-player would be a massive undertaking and wouldn't make the game mode better. If Repanse is weak, make her current abilities stronger instead.
@@SpiceCh oops forgot that they dont allow unit specific buffs in multiplayer, so mby include the 5% ward save into banner of Fleur de Lys and increase the effective range from 35 to something greater like 50 or even more
Your point about nurgle not needing attack is absurd, nurgle demons have absurd base melee damage with low melee attack. Whether it's actually good or worthwhile is another question, but absolutely if i want to buff one stat on a plaguebearer it's melee attack.
Nurgle demons should not have high melee attack,that is the complete opposite of what they should do
@Harisankar.P I think if a Lord wants to be dedicated to buffing them, it sound absolutely be melee attack
Teclis should fly as an infantry lord. In the lore both he and Kemmler magically fly.
And in campaign teclis is a great caster because he gets cheap spells. I think he should get more spell mastery.
As you brought up, Teclis in lore hates animals, so that insanely high price for the Arcane Phoenix is nowhere near expensive enough to get him to be willing to ride it. Never should have been a mount option for him to begin with. And if you say "He'd suck without it!" then that's a problem that would need to be fixed, not a simple band-aid solution like giving people who never had mounts more and more powerful mounts. Wulfrik is another example of a character that sucks at his job, so they gave him an OP mount instead of making him function at his job.
Aranessa only having just over 5k hp on a rotting promethean is indeed quite bad. Most lords on a mount like that are hitting 8k+ hp
The biggest issue overall is that Characters, units, etc are all designed with campaign in mind, but balanced around multiplayer. This leads to some falling apart very quickly. Epi is a very good example of this.
It would be cool if epidemius got an ability that charged based on how many debuffs are applied by him or the nurgle army abilities. Hell, he could even increase the effects of the army abilities, making it so people actually have to fight him. And that way his movespeed debuff will get actual use from people trying to escape him
I like your tretch rework idea, especially since as you mentioned he has no identity now and all his abilities conflict with each other. Plus the idea of a Skaven general who you're basically playing hide and seek with while others do his dirty work just feels very skavenous.
Having a non-spellcaster LL who shouldnt be fighting whatsoever is kind of funny, but I feel like it would grow insufferable quickly, both in campaign and mp.
For campaign youd be playing with 19 units, and for mp, you launch with not just a Lord which should cost 0 if you do nothing with him, but an active character you need to protect, otherwise you'll get minus 16/8 leadership.
@@Grivehnthat is why in the suggestion he buff elite scaven. The idea was home to be a buff lord that is very hard to kill.
Teclis could have Lore of High magic plus what he already has. Maybe remove regrowth and give him something else becouse healing OP, I want variety. Also, in my opinion, they should remove the arcane pigeon, he is supposed to be a squishy caster not the tanky monster that mount offers him.
Deathmaster Sniktch rework i want most. He shouldn't even be a lord, should be a goated assassin and a hero. Give him some sort of ranged shuriken ability, maybe a teleport or an escape spell with an actual assasin ability like all other assasins get
My boy Kroq Gar got done so dirty. He's supposed to be the oldest living saurus. The most experienced saurus that survived the first cataclysm.
I disagree on your opinion on deadly onslaught Frist a 60% charge bonus is 67*1.6=107 so it only gives him a extra 40 attack and damage, and while that will be more useful in the latter seconds of the charge bonus its not game changing. Instead deadly Onslaught gives 663 weapon strength or a extra 130 damage per hit for 31 seconds. That is a extra hit for every 4 attacks and with his +30 bonus vs large I don't see him missing other large monsters that often. Bonus damage is also far more useful vs high health models or single entities which are often large anyway. Problem is His weapon strength is just to low this is fixed in campaign though his last defender title (+1% ws per level).
How to fix rapanse: make her buff and debuff being and area that you can target, and then let her give blessing of the lady to a unit for a short duration
Teclis definitely needs more spell options since all his good spells keep getting nerfed
Kroq gar just needs a version of his campaign/table top weapon that causes discourage, which would also be super useful and flavorful against daemons
His weapon already has discourage in campaign
For tretch, the armour would be cool if it also affected him when outside of combat
Repanse runs into infantry does her explosion and runns away until the explosion is available again. So buff her explosion?
for tretch, if you watch the video ca made on him he used i'll get help... and then just left the battle
His is probably the best Lord select screen lol. It's perfect.
Great video. I do think giving plaguebearers melee attack and speed would be pretty scary cause they do have good weapon strength
While talking about tretch, doesn't ward save also block spell damage?
Trench should get unflankable and a bunch of missile resistance. That way you could take him with only Stand or Die and pay maybe 850 points or so for a tiny lord thats really hard to kill and can fight large slow enemies somewhat.
Funnily enough, I used Tretch to win a lot of Skaven matches in Domination. I genuinely think he has a niche. He makes the frontline not run the fuck away at the slightest contact if you use slaves or clanrats and he can do okay damage if he grinds forever which tends to happen in Domination. Besides, he doesn't get sniped by duelists very well and it's almost always not cost-effective and he's VERY cheap. I think Tretch's raiders should be a Stormvermin Sword and Board RoR and not an ability(it was in TT). So his niche is being very cheap and doesn't fucking die. If the game goes long he pretty much always pays for himself in my experience. He definetly needs buffs to compete with Ikit or Throt tho. He's pretty obviously terrible in LB/Conquest tho which sucks
Nurgle Daemons hit quite hard though, even Nurglings have good WS for their price point.
yes! I love that analysis. thank you!
Tretch should get devastating flanker in mp too, because he innately has it in campaign and it's what his ENTIRE kit is built around. It's why he has the unspottable stalk ability, so that he can flee melee and come back to charge a flank. IDK if that makes him good per se, but it al LEAST makes his mp design coherent instead of having abilities that seem super out of place. Also he should have AP dmg... like he basically has a halberd with how massive his one weapon is.
His Lucky Skullhelm is better with devastating flanker in mind too, but I always thought it was way too much of a gimmick. Especially with how "combat potential" is in the game's calculations of determining who should be "winning" melee combat -- like that it's biased towards multiple units when fighting less units for example, so if Tretch is fighting two units then the item will be more likely to be active even if it's a pretty even or favorable fight. I think one change they could make is that Skullhelm is always active, but only out of melee (maybe with a short cooldown recharging out of melee, IDK balance). This makes it really hard to spell snipe him as long as he is able to flee melee and not get pinned down by higher mass (which he does have anti-large for, although it's not an ideal situation for him either way). So I think this makes it a lot easier to play around as both the Tretch player and also the Tretch's opponent while still playing to his style and theme.
I think they can keep a "losing/winning melee" passive effect somewhere in his kit, but it's not ideal in it's current implementation. I can think of two ways they can do this:
1- They already figured out ONE way to properly do these sorts of effects with the empire flagellants' "Strength from Penitent" ability -- The condition isn't what enables the ability, it's what recharges it. This way the ability's effect isn't even able to oscillate between on and off, therefore becomming a lot more reliable and consistent.
IDK what duration and cooldown would be balanced for the "Tretch's Raiders" ability in this context, but I think a good starting point would be 20 sec duration and 5 sec cooldown and the ability no longer targets all units in range, only 1 or 2 (prioritizing winning units and higher tier units) but since the ability originates from Tretch it would obveously need to recharge when those targeted units are winning, not Tretch. This option keeps the essence of the "unit is (actively) losing" condition from the original ability and adds consistency in exchange for the introduced cooldown.
2- They could do something similar to the Norscan "Rage" ability where the ability is always active with no conditional, but the intensity is increased by the condition (This version doesn't really need to target a limited amount of units as I think it would be overall weaker compared to option 1, so I don't think that's necessary). The longer that affected units are winning, the more melee attack and weapon strength they get. This option keeps the "100% uptime" part of the original ability and adds consistency in exchange for initial potency.
ps- Whenever I say unit I mean a full unit, not # of entities. Putting this here to avoid possible confusions.
Kroq-Gar needs to have his spear as an item in MP;
Maybe give him magic damage by default, and have the actual item give him a contact effect and added weapon strength or something. I always thought he was super weak, you really never see him in play at all except back during the TWW2 early days.
Non-lord daemonic Nurgle units that weren't mentioned: plagueridden, rot flies and plague drones, soul grinders, furies, BoNs, and GUOs. On top of daemon infantry and your toad-based units, that's a fairly broad set of units to buff, and I don't know where "they already have high melee attack but low damage" is coming from.
I'll grant that Epi could make a late-game SEM deathball even stronger, but if you have fliers in a late game they probably aren't going to be near the 28 speed lord too often. maybe if it wasn't a charge-over-time thing, or was map-wide it could work for those units.
My three ideas; Rapanse: give her Icon of Devotion and make her a fast grail reliquae (maybe for an additional gold cost, like a selectable ability). The numeric buffs aren't that great, but having a horse-speed ITP generator is golden for Brettonia.
Epidemius: So for him I had a great Idea. You know how Nurgle now charges based on enemies being affected by debuffs? well make his tally ability strengthen debuffs, like make them last three times as long at full charge, maybe even being a mortis engine or causing a leadership penalty vs debuffed targets . He would still get owned by archers, but anything that closes in is going to regret that poisoned debuff even more.
Tretch: I really feel like this guy should be able to give stealth to nearby infantry. Not to the monsters or war machines, but his story is outflanking and surprising enemies with his troops through surprising cunning and secret routes, so make him a Skaven coatl.
The suggestions for Krokgar and Teclis don't have much to add, tbh.
Aranessa should dismount once she drops to 0 HP, then respawn on foot to swap from support to duelist and make use of those cool animations. Wouldn't even be that strong in her current state.
I’m just gonna say, if every dark Elf lord isn’t on this list, I’m gonna be disappointed 😂
Disagree about epidemius - his buffs are really really good, and he's great for making plaguebearers do well against factions without a good way to bring magic damage in the front line and which can't shoot him down easily - e.g. GS, LM, SKV, NRS, etc. And Plaguebearers have great WS (48!) and bad MA. The Physres makes them VERY tanky.
Whats your ideas on Thogrim? Never seen him used.
He used to have a place in multi-player before Thorek came along with his AP damage and runesmith abilities.
powercreeped by the absolute insanity that is modern dwarfs
@@betrayer1350 the irony is Thorek is FLC.
To be fair, Thorgrim has better stats, and his +8 melee attack and +15% WS aura is nice. And, on average, he does more damage than Thorek to targets with less than 110 armor.
But Thorek provides immune to psychology to nearby allies, -15 armor to nearby enemies, causes enemy casters to explode and saves you the cost of having to bring a Runesmith.
Thorgrim either needs a new ability, or his High King ability needs to be buffed. Maybe it needs to be map-wide, but I'm not sure that would be enough.
Both Noctilus and Luthor are better duelists than Aranessa. As you said, make her a support lord. Buff the range of her trident to 55m radius, and buff the net.
Same goes for repanse, the banner should give the blessing of the lady to all peasant units in a 55m radius.
Epidemius buff should apply to all units, and then it's pretty darn good and worth while.
Throgg needs a re voiceover and small changes imo
Pretty much only play as Kroq Gar and I used hand of the gods less then a dozen times. Just not worth halting his momentum and making himself a target to ranged himself. It's a lame skink priest fireball but on someone with no time to use it.
What are your thoughts on Gor-Rok? I love him, just want to know what you think.
Gor'Rok is an absolute chad, just a shame his buffs for Saurus warriors don't also buff up temple guard, they are technically saurus units so they should imo
yeah i was kinda expecting him aswell. Maybe he could be the saurus general, when kroq gar is the saurus duelist and tehenhauin is the skink general
@@Fr1kaD3ll37 I think Gor-Rok should buff Saurus and Temple guard, unless we get Chakax the Eternity warden some day as a legendary hero to buff temple guard.
If that isn't the case Gor-Roks buffs should include temple guard.
on his combat side I wish he had some sort of ground slam like Harald Hammerstorm to clear some chaff. He has no problem tanking the greatest of hits, but I just wish he had a way to chew through chaff faster as the the Saurian roadblock that he is.
@@Rich50v I agree, unless they give that role to Chakax the eternity warden down the line.
Combat wise I wish he had a ground slam instead of Deadly onslaught. He NEVER charges so that skill is even more useless on him than on Kroq-Gar and something to clear the chaff would be really cool.
I really like adding good characters to this list lol. Although I think your argument should apply to all mixed casters probably?
Ah, probably true bird. But teclis deserves to be special in some way, maybe the changeling magic menu i mentioned?
Kroq Gar I think is close to being good and he definitly does work if hand of the gods is good in a MU. His best mount atm is the horned one imo.
It's kinda weird why epidemius doesn't work. in theory the extra melee attack for plague bearers should be really strong cause they are basically saurus warriors with pretty insane WS but low MA. it's probably just grindy inf being weak atm and nurgle as a faction sucking balls
Tretch feels okay, he's just a cheap tanky dork that can't really be sniped in melee. Just giving him more speed buffs could be okay so he can run around more and be even more annoying to kill. And maybe make him a bit cheaper. Maybe also immune to flanking so he doesn't take backshots while running away. I like that he is still relatively snipeable by spells, you already have different anti spell snipe lord options on skaven. Afaik he is also already solid in Dom.
Honestly, out of all available factions, Bretonnia is the one I would pick for a rework, if only because I have played it the least as it feels like the most barebones and bland faction. But, I would love to jump in and see what it's like revitalized
Bretonnia units did get a rework last year, and their top tier knights are some, if not the best in the game right now. Which is fine now, with healing nerfs. Their LL are insane, their archers are insane, their infantry is meh as it should be.
They should get more on campaign things and admittedly fix to their bad characters, like Repanse and Green Knight. But thats all. They ARE bland as a faction, theyre supposed to be. Theyre the most historical faction in one of the wildest fantasy settings.
The question i ask with tretch is "is he supposed to be a joke character?" Because he's just not even that funny, he's just "weird"
I do like Kroq’Gar as is, although I agree spawn and onslaught are trash. I think you underestimate the power of horsegar in the more kite-centric builds. He’s very Horserik.
Skavens are totally power creeped by their counter parts. Ikit, eshin and moulder do things better, have interesting mechanics which make the other 3 lords obselete
What if they gave Queek a Bonebreaker?
I find Epidemius pretty great
Trecht is ok because we need shit lords so that we have a low point. And aranessa should get a water unicorn mount with 110 speed + 300 health and she would be fine because her biggest problem is she is slow and the other lords are very good but than she could have a niche.
Eltharion also needs a rework his way overpriced for being mid at everything ither make him relly good burst assassin like franz or make him a relly good general like gorbad
dude, he rode a gryphon since there weren't any dragons around.
wait , healing while out of combat
wasn't that the old ability of Kroq-Gar ？
No cold blooded was originally a heal before they reworked it to counter rampage
Sir Tretch being ass is lore accurate. Ikit Claw biggest brained and best rat yes yes!
I think horses in general needs to be better as mounts.
I disagree. I think horses are fine as your bottom tier mount option. Special horses could be buffed individually if need be, but casters and regular stat stick lords and heroes on horses don't need particular buffs. If you're referring to Repanse, I think her strengths should lie in her ability to buff peasants rather than her ability as a duelist, but the Sword of Lyonesse is still a powerful weapon in its own right, and she should be able to fight off lesser lords and chase down casters as a result. And I think her current version works well, even if some misunderstand what her purpose is.
Louen is your duelist lord for Bretonnia.
They are generally always the fastest mounts besides a handful of far more expensive flying options
Speed always has its place
Its not that horses are awful, but they do get surrounded and beaten down. Whilst infantry characters cant. Id counter with foot characters need to be able to get knocked down and take dmg for it, because they cant be surrounded by as many models as a horse. Nor shot at that well.
At least those…
What about my boy Nakai?
Nakai good now
@austinkoepp1409 glad to hear it
-Franz is a leader first and a fighter second cus he uses the most powerful weapon in the lore so that counts I guess...
We don't see that in game.
We see him only as a sort of tomahawk missile aimed at the enemy important units ONLY WHEN buffed by a lore of life wizard...
I would expect a char with some dueling power if he chooses to get Ghal (who should be an INSANE weapon that costs alot to get)
BUT most of his power should come from buffing his troops! The logistics side of his power should manifest in summoning granding the ability to get some electro count units instead of the default ones!
You know make him unique!
Cus the role of unhinged tomahawk missile would fit alex jon... I mean Boris toddbringer so much more!
-Also Gelt is outdated and power crept to hell...
80% of the dwarf lords too... I mean compare them to Chaoes dwarfs...
Yhe so many old factions need a pass to correct the power creep on their lords and heros!
Dude just because he has ghal maraz does not make him a one v one duelist and neither was he in lore or table top
@@Harisankar.P Read what I said again please.
I mentioned he should NOT be a duelist just one that CAN somewhat duel with the active of the op weapons... I mean it is THE WARHAMMER!
As he is now HE IS a duelist and I don't think it is correct and fitting to the character!
Teclis is the greates caster huh.
Have you heard of slaans before? What about kairos? What about big daddy nagash?
I swear both him and balthasar are overhyped af.
Balthazar isn't that strong and only has 1 lore of magici hes just hyped up because of the memes
Teclis is the best mortal caster on par with the slans tho not as strong as mazda obviously