Melting Motors: 120 Volts vs Homemade Lego Motor
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
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See my latest experiments and behind-the-scenes footage!
Lego motors are unfortunately only rated for around 9 volts. But I’ve always wondered how much you can overvolt small motors before they burn out. And what chaos we can bring by chucking 120 volts through a small motor. In this video, rather than destroying my Lego motors, let's instead make our own motor using some neodymium magnets, copper wire, and of course, Lego!
We’ll try a couple different rotor designs, some different commutator designs, and we’ll try to feed them as much power as possible from a power supply. Can we get to 120 volts without melting or burning out?
You might be able to reduce your arcing by connecting a 150V bidirectional Zener diode or TVS diode (Transient voltage suppressor) between your windings.
The cause of this arcing is the stored energy in the magnetic field (E = 0.5*L*I^2) that is present when your coils are energized. As soon as the contacts of your commutator open, the magnetic field collapses trying to keep up the current that was flowing before. To achieve this, the coil has to build a high voltage than can bridge the pretty high dielectric strength (3kV/mm) of the air gap causing arcing.
The voltage created by the coil is equal to:
V = -L * (di/dt)
Where as L represents the inductance of your coil and di/dt is the change of current. Since opening the contacts abruptly means a very high change of current (di/dt), the voltage created by the coil will rise tremendously.
If you connect a bidirectional Zener Diode that will start conducting at 150V, it will clamp the produced voltage down to that 150V and gives a safe path for the coil to release its energy.
However the higher the voltage of the coil, the faster it can release all its stored energy and be sooner ready to accept the current in the reversed direction. I never tried this myself and I dont know how long the diode will last or die out after a couple of revolutions because of overheating, but I think it might be worth a shot
What a fantastic comment, pinning for education. Thanks a lot for taking the time to write this out - super easy to understand, and very interesting to know why these arcs occur. I have a lot of zenner diodes lying around and will see if I have any appropriate ones to test in future experiments. Appreciate it! 🙏
What the sigma
@@JamiesBrickJams
Hey Jamie, thank you. I rarely leave comments and never had the honor to be pinned.
But I have to admit, that I really liked your way of approaching this project by just trying stuff out on your own and not being afraid of failing or damaging something in the process.
It is a good demonstration of how engineering works: You have an idea and try to make it work, but something you haven't considered yet is totally destroying your effort.
(e.g. a current limited power supply as many viewers have pointed out already ;-)). We all have been at this point. Most important is to not give up. From my experience there is almost always a way to make things happen.
I'm glad if I could maybe help you in the process. Even though motor drives are not my field of expertise the fundamentals of physics I layed out will hold truth and the culprit of the arcing problem is the discharging of the magnetic field but there are several possible solution to this problem.
Keywords are 'Snubber circuit' and 'Back EMF'.
By the way with bidirectional zener diode I meant two zener diodes put against each other in series. I was not sure if that was clear.
I am looking forward to a follow up video. :-)
The beeping of that power supply gave me flashbacks of those overvoltage toy destruction vidoes
I also had flashbacks😂
Edit: idk why this reply appeared here, i made it on a different comment. But i'm leaving it
Haha those were a lot of fun
I also recognized that power supply right away.
The beeping and toys screaming for help lol
To avoid contacts melting you can use several wires to make a "brush". This distributes current better. To have more efficiency you can split the same amount of power among more sets of coils, four or six. This way power is only used on coils that are closest to the magnet, producing more torque for the same voltage.
Also to make brushes little pieces of the copper sheet itself could be used.
or you can use the brushes found on scalextrick cars
Desoldering wick is a good option for that
That's a great idea! I'm sure it's possible to buy some of that weave
@@JamiesBrickJams Just the other day I actually watched another youtuber use scalextrick brushes as nidhu has suggested, and then replace them with copper solder wick for cost efficiency. Tom Stanton's Electromagnetic Aircraft Launcher if you want to check them out how he was using them.
The motor never ran at 120v, the powersupply was current limited so the highest voltage it ran at was about 50v
Ok now iam no professional at electrical engineering but iam pretty sure that was 120 volts because it was on 32 apms and the voltage didn’t drop while it was running so that means it was drawing 120 volt 32 amps at the same time plus the wiring was 600 turns so im pretty sure it can handle up to 560 or 570 volts dc
@@Middle_G1 it ran at approximately 35v at 3.2A, not 120v. the power supply went into CC (constant current) mode when it reached its max output current at about 35v, asthis model psu is only capable of putting out a max current of about 3A. while it may seem it ran at 120vdc that's just the target voltage being set, the voltage is ultimately determined by the set max current (CC). this model also displays the target voltage while being set to show what the max voltage is, but this wont affect the output if the psu is in CC mode and the user tries to increase it beyond the voltage being outputed.
@@theniftylynx6897 thanks for sharing your thoughts on this and now i think your opinion is correct and it makes much more sense now thanks
im extremely suprised this didnt turn into a “reddit comment section”.
@@theniftylynx6897 exactly, the only way to increase the power (watts) using that power supply is to increase the resistance
You actually never ran it at 120V. Since the power supply was maxing at 3,2 amps, it switched to CC (Constant Current) instead of CV (constant voltage). Once you get to the current limit, the voltage starts to drop. We can actually prove this by a simple calculation. Since power equals voltage times current, if it ran at 120V with 3,2 amps, we would get to 384W, but it was only at 150W with 3,2 amps, which means the voltage was at around 46V.
Also, to improve the brushes, why not try using the copper sheet as brushes, too? It will increase the surface area.
Yeah I was wondering if it was doing that. It's weird, it hasn't had any issues with other projects, and I've managed to chuck the full amount through nichrome wire. Perhaps I got a setting wrong somewhere. Good idea using more of the copper sheeting for pads! I'll likely try that for the next tests. Or perhaps some copper mesh
@@JamiesBrickJams no settings were wrong, thats just how the power supply works. it can't supply more than 3.2 amps and to run at 120V it would require much more amperage
also if 120v was meant to mimic normal ac voltage from the line, its dc 120v vs ac which would be arround 175v ptp... as an engineer i found this videos kinda cool, but as a real engineer i found this kind of missunderstanding of ac vs dc somehow... lame =/ am a computer engineer, so my understanding of electricity is mostly self tought but... c'mon, not knowing the difference between AC and DC (not even knowing its not the same...) makes me think: "This dude is not an engineer.... not even an unrelated one" ...
@DonnieLuve
It was not meant to mimic the line voltage it was simply the maximun voltage his supply could deliver.
It is also not clear to me, what misunderstanding you are talking about. The intention of this video was just to fry his makeshift motor.
It also appears that you misunderstood the concept of peak to peak voltage vs RMS voltage (or 'normal ac' voltage as you called it).
A 110 V 'normal ac' means this voltage supply would deliver the equivalent power as a 110 V DC Voltage. If only the peak to peak Voltage was of interest, why would we even make a difference and what would this difference actually be? What do you think 'normal' ac actually is? What makes it normal?
@@MrPeplonski you know, its like when you say : "i need a normal hard drive" and the other person is not very ilustrated about the subject... a normal hd is any shit you put on to store permanent changes... that is what i was meaning with normal ac i guess.. btw, stil;l ac changues many parameters, in many many ways [rms is just a lame word to prove you outsmarted me, am guessing... am right?] but for instance the ac vs dc resistance doesnt work the same way, not only bc the current (power you say) magnitude, direction and corelation with the impedance reactance etc etc etc...
lets put it clear: i tought you were lame, bc your video was very lame to me, maybe you were speaking to the normal average joe... who knows? but if you think teaching joe to melt sh1t is better than show him why it does melt and how to avoid it.. well... you still a lame person to me.. sorry dude..
PS dont take it personal my friend, at least your video was better than what i think about a youtuber who is not lame but a total moron...
have a cool day my friendo :)
PS: use a fkcing power resistor so you can limit the current so you can limit te power consumption so you can limit the joule effect in the DC inductive element so you can also reduce self inductance discharges over the conmutative hardware wich makes it roll... and so on... just like mike mayers says: "grooovy baby"
cheers friend.
PS: please if you see idioticy coming from me, please fix me... but that shit of "normal ac" dude.... grow up . its not personal and also, well if you preffer the clasic "lickerballen" comment... then you will never understood the difference between a push, and a pull... and that is really sad, since like i said, your experiment was entertaining... so... forget about it b1tch
Cheers.
Try three phase induction motors, you don't need a commutator that can burn out with those ones.
Yes
Cheers for the suggestion, I'd love to make a brushless motor like this. I've made a few DC brushless motors, but love the idea of an AC brushless motor. Is that what you're recommending?
@@JamiesBrickJams It is, but it also means using 3 spools / electromagnets so the motor runs smoother. Using just two phases makes it much harder for the motor to spin up. You might still need a brushed motor as a starter, but it can be disconnected after the brushless motor starts running (this is the way most power drills work)
you never hit 120v, not even half of that. your 3.2a supply was going into constant current mode causing the voltage to dip. if you actually ran it at 120v it would draw probably near 10a or 1.2 kilowatts. also a thicker wire would run it at even lower power and voltage because it decreases the resistance that in return increases the current demand that your supply cant provide, thus it has to lower the voltage.
i love how you know that its "Lego" and not legos most people dont know thats how it is supposed to be said in any context
Yeah I've always known it as Lego. Legos seems to be more of a recent trend and sounds odd as it's not a noun
@@JamiesBrickJams it’s always been Lego as the brand and brick as the product so hearing it be actually said correctly is so cool I wish it was more universally known
9:50 what an incredible breeze 😂
So fresh 😎
Your power supply was reducing the voltage tho to maintain that current,you definitely need a beefier source to actually get the 120vdc experience,i woudk suggest a full bridge rectifier with a smoothening cap will give u 170vdc output(or a 230v AC RMS input and 325vdc output)
Would need a dedicated thermomagnetic breaker for it, at something like 10A (or whatever the max current for a standard outlet in their country is). Also, maybe they have 220V.
Mains voltage in Ireland/Northern ireland (not sure where he is) is 230v not 120 lol so it would be more like 325 volts
@@mishkamcivor409 acording to the bubble maker video in 6:27, he's from South Africa (230V too)
@@mishkamcivor409 Would also need an isolation transformer to avoid most chances of electrocution.
@@Giuliana-w1f I think they have 120volts,and yeah am 220v land too
Nice! I think everyone else covered the contacts issue, so I'll present a health and safety concern: the enamel on that magnet wire will release diisocyanate smoke when it burns or overheats, which is bad for you, so please don't inhale it and ventilate the area well!
Huh now that's something I actually wasn't familiar with - thanks for the heads up!
Ne need to see a sparkle generator for that epic light show!
I too like the sparkles ✨
Suggestion- use solder wick as brushes instead of just bare copper wires
Love the suggestion, thanks - I've just bought some!
@@JamiesBrickJams Tom Stanton has a good example of how he used them to build an electromagnetic sled to launch model airplanes
In the next generation, you can perhaps use actual brushes instead of just the wire, so that you get more contact area and less contact resistance.
Btw awesome video, as always. Loved it!
That's a lot 😁 I actually ordered some solder wick to use as a makeshift brush for future experiments!
What about putting some carbon brushes or at least lead to the commutator?
Then I would add some bearings at the motor shaft and grease all moving parts,
because at higher speeds the plastic would melt.
And for the next time: buy a more powerful power supply.
But with all that i have to say, it's a cool experiment.
It remindes me at my childhood when i played with several types of electric motors just for fun.
Thank you for this vid.
You actually never got to 120v because you hit the power limit of 3.2amps wayyy before 120v. Powersupply limits current by lowering the voltage. You need to make a less power hungry motor for 120v or get a more powerful power supply
One interesting project can be an induction or synchronous motor. Those work on AC and do not have brushes that spark
If you want to run your motor at 120V, you need a power supply that would deliver about 30A!!! Ohm law = 120V/4Ohm coil = 30Amps. Your power supply current limits at 3.2Amps.
You need to put nails in the rotor to make a stronger magnetic field.
I think your first motor didn't have the torque to turn it's little gearbox, so that's why it stuck. That, and all the friction.
Fancy looking power supply, but I would still recommend using flyback diode.
That's possibly a good shout 👌
Maybe the magnets were 4:41 put in the wrong way
Could be called "Why brushed motors have brushes" or "one reason why brushless motors exist" :D. I kid, this was a lot of fun to watch you go through the process.
Haha yeah for sure, especially when the brushes are so poorly made 😅 Brushless definitely opens up more options. I've made a few and will likely make a video on one soon!
You should try making a brushless motor - itd be awesome :> Love the videos man
Eh, thats the thing with fans, theyre cutting through the air for sure, and pulling it generally from behind, but without a shroud of some sort alot of that effort is just being spat out the sides.
you should use graphite for your contacts, they are used is every brushed motor
In addition to what others have said about increasing your contact area, anchoring the other end of the contact wire (or brush or sheet you may replace it with) will also help now - as it is now it's getting thrown out to the side a bit, causing a lot of arcing that's the main reason those contacts are dying so fast and also just limiting how much current gets through to begin with, but anchoring the other end should help a bit. Ideally you'd also brace the back of it to ensure it's always in contact, but then you'd have to be more careful not to accidentally cause too much friction
That's a really good point! I actually did try it with the thinner wire, and it sort of worked. But for the thicker wire, when I anchored it on both sides, it kept stalling due to the friction. It was just a bit too stiff. But I've bought some copper wick now which looks like a great contact material. Thanks for the suggestion!
Hmm, interesting
Can you fix real burnt motors by replacing contact plates tho!?
very cute power supply, and love the designs!
Aw thanks 😁 And definitely - I love this little supply. It's basic, but does the trick
Could you make an axial flux motor out of Lego ?
I love your videos !
just a quick tip, for a high voltage motor like you were trying to make, you need not thicker wires but thinner wire and way more windings, just from looking at a 120 volt brushed dc motor i rewired a while back
Thanks for the tip! I actually didn't realize this power supply would cap the voltage at whatever draw maxes out the current. Clearly you're right - need to build a coil with a resistance that'll only draw 3 amps at 120v. My original coil at 40 ohms should have been approximately correct, but I suspect I messed up the timer
@@JamiesBrickJams you should probably go even lower with the resistance something like 100ohms which will draw around 1.2amps which should make the motor work although if you want more power something like 70 ohms for 1.7amps.
this would be really cool if lego released a set like this, a magnet module, coil module ect with speed controller
That'd be incredible! They've done weirder things in the past
Maybe you could try your three phase generator and plug in a BLDC controller to turn it into a generator?
I'd imagine that's totally doable - cheers for the suggestion!
I could watch you build custom motors for hours 😅
Aw cheers 😁
Maybe you could use thicker copper tape 7:09
Now try generating as much volts as you can with a self made motor and lego gearing.
That sounds like a pretty fun idea 🤔 With a bunch of coils of very thin wire and some serious magnets, I'm sure it's possible to produce voltages in the thousands. No idea what that'd actually be useful for though...
@@JamiesBrickJams It's worth the try! :D
you should use three or four coils in your motors
Very interesting
Cheers 😁
I love your videos, please keep it up! You are AWESOME!!
Thanks a lot, really appreciate it 😁
now we should run it underwater so it doesn't overheat lol
Now I’m wondering about making my own Lego motor for my Lego cars 😅
That'd be awesome 😎
Make a generator that uses its own power to run (use gears to spin it manually for kick starting it)
1:04
not to mention that they'll shatter and break appart if you let them snap together unimpeded
For sure. Lost a great many magnets to that
Why not make the union with copper plates with copper plates, instead of a copper plate making contact with a thin copper cable? The contact point is very small, instead of increasing the diameter you could crush the tips of the cooper cable to increase the contact surface, but for that it is better to use those copper plates for the entire contact.
That's actually a pretty good idea, cheers! I've also just bought some copper wick which I've seen recommended - seems to be a flexible way of making good contact
@@JamiesBrickJams Now that I remember, in Tom Stanton's last video he used something similar to a braided copper wire and an alloy that I don't remember, but it seemed that it also made very good contact and seemed very flexible like a rope, I don't know much about electricity , but I suppose you could add 2 more fins of the copper wire, make 4 fins (2:05 there are 2 so I would say double it), although maybe it would become very complex to balance and not rotate, although I suppose it could be done of 3, although it may not increase strength, it may be that it increases effectiveness, your videos are so good, keep going !
Use iron sheet, or even better plate, ouside of the magnets to contain the magnetic field, you should get more speed and a lot more of torque. Like from Galicia!
Now that's an interesting idea, cheers for the suggestion!
You can try to make an electric motor with cylinders and coils (solenoid motor)
4:00 You sure are, but it's weak as hell cause you don't have a core to concentrate it
Nice Video😀
Thanks a lot 😁
Make a Motor that can power your fridge
usely small dc motor have 3 coil and 2 magnet maybe try this next time or 5 coil 2 magnet
Took you far too long to understand the "brushes" are inadequate
You should make a high speed lego motor.
I'll certainly try some better motors in time!
YAY PUTTING TO MANY VOLTS IN STUFF AND SEEING IF THEY EXPODE IS SO FUN😂😂😂😂
Hi is it possible for you to convert this dc motor to a universal motor so you can directly plug it into the mains power? I mean it might be a bad idea but it’s worth a try😅
Why not use actual carbon brushes instead of little contact wires.
I love barw bone diy lego elektrycznej stuff
brushless next?
For sure 😉
What if you internally cooled it it with a little fan blade like power tool motors?
I suspect I'd need a much more efficient motor design before I could even consider that - though I like the idea! I just know my current design is absolutely awful and would melt no matter what. Some thicker wires and more poles would be a good shout to start with though
Make gauss cannon with lego
150W with 3.2A is just 47V
Yeah that was a little disappointing. I mainly just wanted to max out the supply and see how long it'd run for. Next time I'll need to build a better coil. Though I'd imagine it wouldn't survive long at all
do you think you can take apart a lego motor and run 120v throught it? like...use the inside parts and make another motor...so technically it is 100% lego????
I'm sure it possible! I'm also pretty certain it'd burn out almost immediately 🔥
@@JamiesBrickJams yeah...but I think it would be cool to do:D
You are amazing
Aw shucks ☺️ Cheers for watching
hi long subsciber]
Make a brushless motor… and for tests u can use fake Lego so u don’t ruin ur Lego bc of heat
I definitely regret not using fake Lego for those tests!
Make a three ir four pase motor
Please build a DC motor
This is a DC motor! Perhaps you mean a brushless DC motor? I've made a few in the past - will likely make a video on that sometime
7:44 so melting is fine, but glue is too much?
Glue is a last resort.. but melting is just fun!
Can you run in 220v?
If I had a power supply that could output 220 it's possible in theory.. Though if you wanted the motor to survive that, it'd have to be designed differently to most motors to handle that voltage. Especially if it is pushing a significant current
1st
You messed up the commutator I think.
Sure did!
Wooden ikea thing😂
Do steel logo exist?
I'm not sure about steel, but there is a great company that does aluminium parts
@@JamiesBrickJams oh then that would work for motors for yours. But I would also want to see a engine out of lego. So what i mean is make the piston out of iron and have a coil around it and oscillate back and forth to make the engine work
Cool
14:46
5:29 TURKISH WIRE MENTIONED TRTRTRTRTRTRTRTRTRTR
?
Now do a Lego steam engine
Kinda working on something like that 😜
7:01 why th are the sparks g r e e n?
I'd imagine that's just what colour copper discharges. Probably different materials would yield different colours
@@JamiesBrickJamshm
@@JamiesBrickJams makes sense I know that copper makes green fire when burned.
the lil green you see cause the copper is oxidized and the oxidized copper is green when the green copper is vaporized
It releases copper into the surrounding air and the sparks interact with that causing the green
Hi!
Hehe
only 120volts? WEAK
Electroboom guy
😅
Lathe😂
Oh si- SHI- SHIT
3 hour
That 120V DC power supply is 100% lethal. What you did is very irresponsible and I hope you will not repeat your forays in experimental science without making your setup touch safe. 😮
Amperage was not high so it’s fine 😂
And that children is why your dime store DC motor uses a 3 pole design......so you dont short the damn commutator.....Watching this kid 'deface lego' for 13 minutes completely ignoring DC motor design has taken years off my life. AND I WANT THEM BACK!!!!
......Bah, Id only waste em.......
If you're gonna waste em anyway, I have loads of other terrible designs that barely work that you can watch, which will age you even quicker!
100th like :D
It never went over 40-45 volts. Misleading title
First🔥
No, 2nd.