Pharah gets way too much hate, she is significantly higher skill than most people give her credit for (especially after the rework), and ultimately is over hated purely because people don't like looking up despite the fact she has a substantially larger hitbox and slower time to kill than Echo.
Was about to say myself. At least for now, and in the past mauga He's easy to *play* when you stand in front of him as a solo player He's much,much harder to play well, or at least well against a good team/enemy tank. He has one of the most prominently easy to ding hotboxes. Focus fire eats him the same way it eats reins. And to make plays he's often forced to put himself in positions where supports likely need to save him, cool downs up or not. Until he has charge to leave with. Tankfist was a mistake, aoe slam feels wrong on both sides, bring back uppercut, tune down punch, bring back zoomslam reticle. Or-16a is ok, but definitely became many players crutch, the same way OW1 ori5a did. Hog just feels too thick without a full team looking at him now. And that does kinda suck. And hook one shot has always been his thing, and some people just hate that he has a kill range on them. Outside of ult doom walks on maugas teams unless he can't read a charge slam when blocking. Doom is 100% my most hated I just want Sombras hack to feel like it matters again, and for her to not be a literal invisible assassin for my supports.
I will always be amazed how people can be so hateful and critical towards the characters in this poll and for some reason, excuse Ana from all of that. I think nostalgia from everyone enjoying season 3 of overwatch 1 is the only reason people refuse to accept she's the most frustrating character to play against in this entire game. I don't think people consider how much she single-handedly decides the outcome of every team fight and how her existence alters the meta even when she isn't picked at the highest level of play (because people pick characters that would counter her from the start just because of how strong she is), and I even believe the 5v5 vs 6v6 debate wouldn't exist + tank wouldn't feel bad to play for most people if Ana didn't have anti-nade. When I pick Ana, I win a teamfight for free by pressing E on the ground on a few opponents and can do that more frequently than suzu can cleanse it. I cannot be flanked by only one person because I can just sleepdart them, or play my range from so far away that opponents cannot engage with me. I need to have multiple opponents work together to merely displace me, and several seasons had the second healer exist for the sole purpose of babysitting the Ana player (various Ana/Brig metas). And if my opponents focus anybody besides me, I have the tools to reversal any engagement with nade/sleep and now even nanoboost since it instantly heals the receiver for some reason. Regardless of meta, the mere concept of a support sniper who can turn around every teamfight singlehandedly with 2 ultimates as cooldowns is fundamentally broken and needs to be reworked/nerfed into the ground before Blizzard makes ANY CHANGES TO ANY OTHER HEROES/SYSTEMS for the game to be more enjoyable at all levels of play. I truly don't comprehend how people hate Kiriko, Bap, or any healer, but not Ana. This character is absolutely disgusting but gets overlooked because she's fun to play or something? I don't get it.
Weaver's pull is possibly the most annoying ability to play against IMO besides suzu. Like my teammate always says when we play comp "I see a mistake, I go to punish the mistake and then magically the mistake is gone" its so tilting.
i feel like this is an elo issue. when weaver is played in 4k+ scrims he’s used to enable early cd usage on an engage (mostly early queen shouts) which is normally bad because it can be kited and easily punished, but with weaver your tank gets to int for free. in this sense weaver’s pull is actually pretty dynamic and interesting. you’re 100% right in low elo’s though supports should not have such strong get out of jail free cards.
To be fair, it is equally as frustrating to be on Support and watch your team make the mistake with no way to interact or stop it. I've watched Reins or Orisas charge into the enemy team to 1v5, blow up, and now everyone is looking at me on Zenyatta. And I think compared to Suzu, there is the tradeoff with Life Grip as you can easily lose alot of space or pull people away from duels they might've won, so there's a bigger emphasis on skill expression and game sense
I'd argue it's worse than Suzu in that at least it never feels bad to be Suzu'd by a teammate. Pull feels bad to play against and can feel just as bad to play with.
@@nicholasmoscufo416 this is an issue in high elo also. I dont mind weaver in team environments and actually he is really weak and easy to punish when used in the way you are explaining. The issue I have is I make the effort to punish someone, force the life grip, and then by the time I am able to pressure/punish another mistake myself he has it again so there is a reliance on my team to do something. Its similar with suzu but that doesnt physically remove the person from my LOS/range
I think it's very simple why each hero is hated as much as they are: Sombra - An ability disabling hero... in an ability based game. People play the game to use abilities, when you actively prevent them from doing that in a no skilled annoying way (perma invis, hack being a "just be on my screen and it'll land" ability), people will naturally hate the hero. Roadhog - A tank... with a one shot combo. That should be enough to throw this freak of a hero design under the bus but even on top of that you've got an 800 HP hero who's basically impossible to kill unless you send a small task force after him or just spam anti's on him all game. Since they've removed stuns as a counter since now his heals is a resource meter and just goes on a very short cooldown when cancelled. Kiriko - Dive players hate her because they cannot physically dive her. Wall climb, 30 meter teleportation escape ability, can duel you if you're a squishy and just suzu when low or TP out. Everyone else hates her because suzu just counters everything. You need a burst of healing? It does that. You need immortality? It does that. You need intangibility for that doom about to punch so he can just phase through you and now he's out of position? It does that. You need a cleanse? It does that. When she's being played the ENTIRE game now revolves around dealing with her and trying to force suzu out so that you can physically get value out of your ultimates because she can just cancel or deny most of them. Lifeweaver - Lifegrip is a free value immortality... there's nothing you can do about it when going against it and it can be infuriating when used wrong while playing WITH it. There's no real counterplay to lifegrip. The counterplay is basically "go to try and kill someone and just try to force lifegrip as soon as possible so that free kill denial is used early instead of later" and that's just dumb. Not to mention you also need a small task force to kill him because the combination of low dash cooldown + elevator + support passive means he can just cycle his shit and you WILL NOT kill him.
Perfect take. All these heroes need reworks ASAP. I’d argue overwatch’s biggest problem right now is terrible hero designs like these ones. People like to argue about 5v5, and I’m personally in the 6v6 camp, but both formats could work pretty well if the heroes were all somewhat fun and interactive.
The bigger issue with Sombra is how she constantly has impact. Supports knowing she exists somewhere behind them makes playing the game fundamentally not fun. Tracer and Genji are well made flankers, as they can be beat with good positioning or skill, but Sombra will win a 1v1 vs any ability-based hero unless you just stand next to your team. All heroes have a chance against Tracer or Genji.
@@abudgie6909Yep, Overwatch was always a design problem, not a format problem. This was obvious when they spent 10+ seasons making characters weaker/stronger due to the abscence of an off tank. Alot of characters would benefit from a full on rework, instead of just tweaking numbers and calling it a day.
I do think flat out removing Mauga Hog Orisa Sombra Kiriko Baptiste Lifeweaver Illari and Widow the game would be actually better. These characters don’t play by the rules and either get too much value with too little effort, or are far too difficult to punish.
Very surprised you did not come to what I would consider the obvious conclusion as to why Sombra is hated universally, but especially in low ranks, where general game knowledge and skill are low. I do not think this is mostly a visibility issue. She, like just about every hero that was voted highly*, reduces player agengy. In other words, she excels at the cardinal sin of multiplayer-games: One player one sidedly acting upon another, while the other either is never given the opportunity to react, or only ever gets to react with a heavy disadvantage. There's nothing worse in a multiplayer game, a test of skill between people, than to feel like you are either denied the opportunity to even enter the contest, or not start on equal footing. Sombra induces a feeling of helplessness like nobody else. She appears out of nowhere, always at the worst possible timing for you, and she starts the engagement with a heavy advantage. To rub insult to injurty, she is seemingly not even punished if her attept fails as she also has a get-out-of-jail-for-free card in her TP. I really liked your deep dive into the psychology of tanks, and a similar thing takes place here. Even if chasing the Sombra away may be an advantage in itself if we look at the bigger picture, it feels like a lose-lose. And that is what matters. She feels uniquely terrible to play against, even if you do everything right. *Different heroes deny interaction in different ways, and not every hero voted highly here is notorious for this issue, even though all of them have this problem to some degree. A few Examples: -Orisa being unkillable, especially due to her shiny mode -> lack of interactvity -Widow oneshotting people -> death without any opportunity to react -Kiriko, Lifeweaver, Mercy, Moira -> ridiculously hard to kill due to get-out-of-jail-for-free abilities = feels like you cannot interact with them properly -> feeling of helplessness/unfairness -Torb, Junk and again moira -> feeling of unfairness due to the seemingly "unearned" value they get with spam/turret/succ -> doesn't feel like a fair fight -Bastion and Zen make the tank they play against feel helpless due to creating an "uneven playing field" If you haven't made a video about how interaction denial is the main source of player frustration I think you'd do a great job at analysing the game and it's issues from this angle. I for one would love to hear your thoughts on the topic.
Incredible take. My biggest frustration with Sombra is that by now I’ve gotten pretty consistent at dealing with her denying her value but the sheer fact that as a Zen-Ana main when you impose yourself on the game it’s almost guaranteed Sombra will be the pick to try and shut you down and even when it’s clearly not working they prefer to stick to the “counter”
Honestly the tp is what gives people the lack of control even more.Say you land your shots just enough and you died. You cant even call your teammates to potentially finish her off as she tps away to a hacked health pack and be back to harass you off respawn. To contrast this to spy from tf2 who has a literal one shot, is forced to play with low hp with no mobility tools often to get in and/or get out (dead ringer in means not getting out most of the time). But he's forced to play into such close range with a narrow hitbox you can actually counterplay him as any character. Unlike Sombra who can play in any range and a tp thats instant to almost instant. Sombras that know what they're doing generally are a nuisance, great disruptor/assassin, info gatherers and what's her con? She has average to low dps. Wow, what a great downside for ALL OF THAT.
Yea I was a little shocked by his take on sombra as well Figured it was obvious why we all hate sombra, she just embodies every gamer sin, and even when they sorta fixed the sin of escaping last second and denying someone a deserved kill on you, they added the gamer sin of dot 😂 But she has the gamer Sins of auto aim, crowd control, invis, escaping right as you're about to kill her and now dot, and idk how combining all these into 1 hero didnt instantly kill the game tbh because it's like a perfectly crafted nuke they just dropped in their game.
as a data scientist you can normalize the data vs the pick-rate, even thought you needed to separate per rank data , but if you average the pick-rate should bring new light to the statistics
The reason sombra is so hated in the lower ranks is the spawn camping. Lower rank players don’t peel back to help people getting solo deleted coming out of spawn. Super annoying. And I think lifeweaver is so hated because he feels unkillable. His health pool is so large and the dash giving him health is so frustrating.
I don't run into spawn camping sombras but what I do run into is me knowing that there's a sombra behind me and then I spray a few shots just to see if the sombra is behind me and I get no hits and then as soon as I turn around I immediately get hacked and then virus'd
I call it the CoD disease. Early call of duty, and I guess maybe still, trained players to just run in after death. For multiple reasons I am stuck bronze. More due to age and play time, but I can easily call a match with in the first 2 fights. You see the picks and sure enough like a trail of ants they run in as soon as they spawn. Doesn't matter the timing of the other hero deaths. Spawn and run in. The role doesn't effect it either. Between the ML7 wanna be Ana's to the reddit Moira's wayyyy too many front line "support" types. To the tank that seem to think they can tank the world . DPS is caught up everywhere in the middle for reasons.
If I could delete one hero from the game, it would be Sombra hands down. Because nobody can make me rage as much as she does. She just robs all of your abilities and there is nothing you can do about it. Cassidy's nade is annoying but at least you know where he is coming from. Widow can one shot you across the map, but at least you can hide behind a wall. Mercy can resurrect, but you can easily deny that by killing her or pushing her out of range.
I was watching a podcast with two pokemon youtubers and the balancing thing kind of relates. They were talking about how there's always some completely BS cheese strat that people drag their feet and wait years to ban just because they don't want to step on anyone's toes. They think if someone can't use whatever they want to win, they'll just quit because the game is awful for them, ignoring all the tournaments that are ruined in the meantime because of the awful stuff, and it usually ends up getting banned anyways.
@@jax345- in the smogon community they said they would usually end up banning the things everyone complains about after a very drawn out and pointless process. The OW equivalent could be the devs either reworking characters or, more likely, just making them never hard meta especially at high ranks
There are important things to distinguish though. Namely that Pokemon has multiple rulesets, and that the "official" are VGCs which has its own set of regulations Pokemon in Smogon get banned 2 ways, and pushed 3. Quickban, Tested, or Usage Rise. Quickban is when something is clearly and obviously a problem no test is required. Usage Rise is when something is incredibly prevelant within a given metagame and gets pushed upward into the next tier. Which is why tiers like UUBL exist. The Mon is UU but banned due to its power level within UU. Perfectly usable in higher tiers though. And then theres suspecting. Which means that a ladder with the problem "absent" will be set up. And people can play in that respective metagame for duration of the testing And people who reach a pre-requisite score within that metagame can vote on the change. (To my understanding) Now after explaining the system, the reason its so rigorous. Likely has a lot to do with the irregularity that things can be unbanned and preserving a sense of authenticity. A lot of the bans are done to create an enviornment that is genuinely engaging and allows the meta to develop, but the way "people" like for bans to work is "Remove what i dont like" a Modern pokemon doesnt have Hidden Power anymore, and to my understanding its a common mentality that Hidden Power was unhealthy for the meta. However the metas that exist within the context of Hidden Power existing are entirely unique and interesting metagames in their own right. To make a connection back to overwatch, think of GOATS and how dominate it was not just as a comp but as a concept. There wasnt just a single iteration of GOATS that dominated, the way to create and play the comp developed and changed as time passed and nerfs happened. The GOATS metagame was problematic certainly, but on some level GOATS was a comp that eliminated as much bullshit from the game as possible. It arrived as its own solution to other frustrations. Instead of trying to deny a found solution wouldnt it be preferable to open up more solutions so to speak? You cant fix a meta or balance a meta by taking things out of it, even when a meta has shifts usually when a game has had its time to be learned you dont get meta shaking changes. Youll at best get small rumblings or value out of previously less considered options. Imo people look to bans as a cure all for issues, but in reality they just want a dynamic game that can fluctuate heavily. But the opposite is also true lack of stability and time to play things out also wears on players. Its a cycle
"Delete Lifeweaver" 😂 I'm just imagining him vanishing into thin air like Avengers End Game. All his mains crying and reaching out for him like "noo, not Lifeweaver!"
I'm a Diamond tank player and i'm Jq main, i didn't participate to the survey, but this are my most hated heros for each role: Most hated tanks to play against: 1) Roadhog 2) Mauga 3) Orisa 4) Zarya 5) Rein Most hated DPS to play against: 1) Sombra 2) Cassidy 3) Mei 4) Widow 5) Pharah Most hated suppoerts to play against: 1) Kiriko 2) Ana 3) Zen 4) Lifeweaver 5) Mercy My top 5 most hated heros in the game are: 1) Sombra 2) Kiriko 3) Ana 4) Roadhog 5) Cassidy
Talking about kiriko for a bit, I don't really hate suzu, at least in concept, i REALLY REALLY HATE the execution, because you have to factor in also swift step that is a second autoclence if kiriko didn't have swift step to clence her self, she would use suzu selfishly more often makeing the ability more bareble, also i don't like how easy is to apply the effects of op and uncounterable abilities like suzu, lamp and lifegrip, because it's not good design negate an entire ultimate with the use of a single CD that is not even skilfull
I like playing JQ against Rein because you have to balance getting close enough to convince the Rein to shield drop/land the axe while not staying in swing range. Creates some fun gameplay. Don't know why Cass is so hated on your list, just land knife, wait for roll, yank and spank. I like fighting characters like Cass way more than trying to deal with something like a Tracer.
@@racmanov Because has i said i play mostly JQ and Rein wall all my abilities, just shield alone negate almost al my abilities and so if i can't land my abilities i don't get healing, also I almost never can fight him because my effective range is similar to his but he has a lot more damage than me and a lot more health and armor. So against him I struggle to make space, also if i get aggressive and go for the backline he can alaways turn back and charge me and if he pin me I die 90% of the time or if he miss it doesn't really matter because now he is in his effective range and can beat me to death. Also JQ doesn't have anything to counter shatter, and shatter and charge can cancel queen ult easily because during the cast time she stand still and it's really easy to land cc on her. Sometimes I'm surprise how people don't realize how mutch free value Rein get just from existing. Obviusly you can play around Rein and make it work, but that is boring and mean that i have to make twice the effort to win if i don't want to swap to a boring counter hero like Orisa, but at that point I already stopped having fun
I'm glad he covered the bias of the survey. For instance, my biggest annoyances to play against in DPS are Tracer and Hanzo for sure. I'm a Sombra (and support main) but yeah, Sombra has to be one of the worst to play against because she feels like she can do stuff. I suppose Bastion too, but that's more of hating how my team reacts to him, I personally like fighting Bastion.
This is probably because I’m in gold but I can’t stand playing with or against Mercy. Seems like every time I play with her she’s a detriment to the team comp and whenever I’m against her she’s ressing every time the team gets a pick.
No, you're right. Mercy is an annoying moth whose whole playstyle revolves around flying around while holding left click and getting cheap revives. Worst part is she's not even a good support
I think it comes down to "shutdown" or "value denying" heroes. You make a big play and Kiriko presses a button and just deletes it. You spend a lot of resources to get a kill and just at the last second, Lifeweaver pulls the target. Sombra literally shuts down your heroe Widow can delete you without you even knowing you were in danger. If Dva was there, i'm sure she would pop-up as hated by DPS in higher ranks.
baptiste dosnt get enough hate, his self sustain, dmg output, lack of risk playing him, HUGE heal potential, powerful ultimate. LAMP. and his jump not having a cooldown makes him so annoying to play against.
@@sagnikdeb9589 both kiriko and baptiste are the best supports, and have been for too long, they both need nerfs to even out the playing field, especially when both of them can easily 1 v 1 almost the entire dps roster.
I'm incredibly conflicted with Lifeweaver. He's been my main since release even though hes sucked SO BAD. I think the hate comes from how heavily LW relies on game sense. A skill that isn't tangible like aim and plagues low ranks. So those worse LW's have shitty grips and utility usage that actively screw over their team. But in high ranks I think people hate him for being a healbot afk in the back character. As someone who plays a lot of LW, if you have good game sense and pull people out of losing duels or when theyre vulnerable with no cds. LW is enjoyed by your team, but its such a difficult task that most LWs just end up trolling their team cause they saw someone with "Critical" on them. I love this guy and his design, but the fact that bad LWs actively can get you killed really make him feel awful to play with. They gotta add the ability to cancel lifegrip, both for the LW and the ally being pulled. I think this would alleviate a lot of the pain points teammates would have with LW
When filling out the poll I honestly struggled with who my 2nd was on both tank and dps lol. I put down ball cuz he is vaguely annoying and sombra cuz she is also vaguely annoying but I don't really hate playing into either; I know those matchups and can win those consistently. I just put a 2nd for the sake of the poll but the drop-off in hatred from Hog to Ball and Widow to sombra is massive (hog and widow have same issue for me - I hate getting one shot)
another facet of this conversation may be the fact that certain people dislike certain characters because of bad matchups for their mains. for example i main doom, and although i already hate sombra for a multitude of reasons, i hate her even MORE because of just how easy it is for one to shut me down. the same could go for genji/moira. i’m also surprised at the lack of phar/mercy. a lot of people i talk to, specifically people on console or in lower ranks, tend to really hate pharah and mercy.
that’s crazy that tanks don’t hate junkrat, on dps I don’t even notice his trap but as tank I have to constantly watch for it. Shit gives me a headache
Random junkrat traps are the worst as a doomfist or ball, but at least I know I could haaev been more carefull to work around him, sombra leaves you out in the open with almost the same possible death combo without anyway to counter that rather than search for her and killing her.
As someone who recently got back into the game (Diamond Tracer - starting again at Gold) I can tell you at lower ranks people HATE playing vs Sombrah, that poll isn't skewed for playing with her. Sombrah is absurdly easy to get value out of when you're playing against a team with poor positioning (e.g., every metal rank team). Zens, Ashe, Widow, lifeweaver, ana etc, just get torn to pieces by her at low ranks. The issue is that she gets so much value for so little effort, that is what is irritating to me as a noob player. I can play Sombrah and get kills mindlessly in low rank because awareness and positioning is all over the place, so getting picks is just too easy.
Really interesting analysis! 9:40 - If it were possible, I'd love to run some significance testing (t-test or maybe ANOVA) on these results to see whether, statistically speaking, the rank category differences are due to chance or not.
I'd say in general, the "hatred" formula is like (frustration I notice on enemy team) / ((how outspoken their mains are) * (value I notice on my team)). It has no relation to how strong the heroes actually are, but like you say, high pick rates can make those feelings more intense. But if they have a really dedicated, outspoken following in the people that play them, that can totally offset how annoying they are to everyone else, which I think we see with Doomfist. Kiriko likes to be independent and you know she can TP, so every time you die you think "wtf, why is kiriko not with me, is she dpsing? why didn't kiriko just tp to me to save me?". Then on the enemy team its all, damn this kiriko tping to my target and suzuing them all the time. Hated both ways, regardless of rank. And she has a high pick rate, but you don't really see a strong unity in Kiriko mains, they don't defend her much online to offset the hate. In fact, I see "Kiriko mains" begging for devastating nerfs on reddit for some reason... Sombra is invisible. Even if she's putting in work, as a teammate you just see her out of the fight constantly and assume she isn't doing much (especially pre-rework). Meanwhile obviously as an enemy, you feel like Sombra will hack and assassinate you easily and its really hard to play around. Hated both ways, especially in low ranks where players can't "play around" anything and supports have no awareness to heal through a Sombra attack. Similarly, there are lots of Sombras now, but they don't bother defending her to offset the hate online, they just accept she's hated. Widowmaker sits way in the back. She either one shots a lot or feels like she's doing nothing as a teammate. Even if she puts in work, as a teammate you don't see it unless you pay close attention to the kill feed. As an enemy, you feel like you can't even play the game bc you're terrified of the one shot. Hated both ways. Roadhog doesn't "tank" all that well and generally just plays like a very needy dps - as a teammate it often feels like you don't really have a tank. As an enemy, his design baits you into thinking he can die then just never dying. And similar to Widow there is a feeling of terror that you can't in anywhere in his LoS or he'll hook you for a one shot. Sucks both with and against. Mauga is very similar but with that annoying burn effect instead of a one shot. Tbh, I think the Sombra rework has actually made her more accepted than she used to be. Bc now she has more direct, noticeable value than before. It feels a lot better having her on your team, which that alone I think helped her image. She's still not liked, but its not quite as bad. Its arguably how much of that hate is simply the "inherited hate" from her previous design too, similar to how people hate on Brig despite he design being extremely fair now.
And about Lifeweaver, playing with him is extremely fun, but the biggest problem is that he is a character that you must know how to use and that is a problem for anyone who tries him. Many people don't know when to pull, when to charge the heal or when to spam instead of charging. I think that's why they hate him. For me, mechanically, he is a complete support. he has countless skills to save, to maintain the team's livelihood and he is MUCH better than Illari. illari for me is a crap character. It's a support without a single appropriate saving skill... for it to have a legal support it depends a lot on the goodwill of the team and for low rank it doesn't work... It's very easy to break the pylon, the pylon takes a long time to arm to save someone, your allies almost don't go to the Pylon's location (even if you ping him where he is or change the location to a point where they have better access). . and honestly, the character is just not among the most hated because of the people who like to deal damage with support
As a tank player and sometimes flex, when I play the game I want to make a play or capitalize on a mistake. When an ability can negate all of that without an ult trade, it can be incredibly frustrating. Tank busting is a no brainer though. I don’t mind counter swaps to deny me value, but I think this video cemented the idea that I don’t hate counter swapping, I hate tank busting (they are different).
Sort of? I mean regardless it's still gonna be a pain if someone counter swaps to someone infinitely better vs your character but if they also happen to be a tank buster on top of that the value they get is gonna feel even worse because it doubles down on focusing you and it's what's effective vs your character Tank busters can be annoying but if you counter swap them too they can only tank bust with their conditions being met, mauga if he's just allowed to freely shoot tank, hog if he can land hooks on tank consistently, and orisa is just a bully style character in general so she'll always be a pain to anyone since she has all the tools necessary to turn a fight in her favor
Heroes I hate going against: Sombre: if I get hacked one more time 😠 Echo/Pharah: I hater having to look up and shoot or switching characters to hit them in the air. Characters with one-hit combos: If I get hooked one more time 😠
S4 Tank (thank you queuing all roles) B3 Support (My main role) Characters I hate seeing one the enemy team the most. Tank: Reinhart, Ball, Winton Dps: Sombra, Tracer, Pharah, Echo Support: Ana (while on tank)
I'm one of the gm support players that voted that I hated zen. I think he just does too much dmg and in high rank is usually protected well enough a solo dive won't kill him. With discord and dps passive it's impassive to heal someone getting focused n they die instantly. I also hate dueling tracers with harmony orbs
the most hated dps (sombra) and the most hated supports (kiriko, lw) have key mechanics around undoing your success, not being a fair fight, but just a an immediate vulnerability via teleport, suzu, life grip, or overall not being a fair fight with permanent invisibility, instantly teleporting (vs running away) or taking pedal to where you can't finish fights with quite a few heroes. They are anti-fun.
Sombra as a character is designed to be annoying and hateable so Im not really expected with the poll. If anything you can say that Sombra is one of the best characters in regards to filling out her character fantasy.
seriously, if sombra isn't the most hated character, the devs failed at her character design. another added element is if you're doing well on sombra, you can tilt the enemy team into oblivion. the psychological aspect is why i enjoy playing sombra. she just gets in your head, always threatening a flank on the backline depending on the enemy team comp. what makes her pretty strong though is her flexibility. she can chill in the off-angle tickling people just to get that healing debuff going. or she can just flank from the high ground or do some hit-and-run. she's mad fun these days thanks to the changes they made to allow for more player expression. and even if you're dog for a few team fights, building toward emp means you can turn around any situation. admittedly my sombra isn't the best since i tend to get too greedy. i gotta reign it in a bit, but when i'm in the zone, it's a fun experience.
One thing I think is an interesting thought I had: In plat I hate playing against Ball the most because my team doesn't understand how to just click the small people instead of the zdps Ball, which impacts me by inflicting my whole team with brainrot. Something like Mauga/Hog I dislike playing against because of their kill/save potential, or their direct/potential impact on ME. Doesn't really change the answers, but it's interesting that heroes are likely Hated for different reasons while still ending up as someone's most hated. Another thing about Junkrat being hated in high elo, speaking as high in League playing with lower ranked friends: I hate randomness, and unpredictability. If I see Cassidy/Widow ping, I know where they're going to come from, I likely even know what wall they'd hide behind if they get shot at. I absolutely no idea what direction a Iron/Bronze/Silver player in League is going to dodge, and I have absolutely no clue where Junkrat's ball is going to bounce after I dodge it the first time and it leaves my vision, both are equally annoying for me.
I want to add to the hog stats for lower ranks, I think it’s also due to the fact that lower ranked support players have a harder time pumping heals into hog which is necessary for him to be viable, also the fact that they don’t utilize Suzy as well as higher ranked players make it so hog is much easier to kill compared to mauga and orisa
as someone who doesnt hate hog that much, to me, the only aspect that makes me hate a character is having good results going 100% braindead with it. Mauga and Orisa are peak braindead gameplay, while hog needs more awareness, but has an annoying ass cheese factor
That’s wild you think hog needs awareness 😂 He’s the only hero that can braindead walk into a whole team, hook, 1 shot someone and walk out while healing through 10000 damage.. bring a kiri into the equation and it’s even worse
@@Lordin_ im sorry but a gold mauga and masters mauga are not the same and that’s naive of you to say that cause if a gold mauga played at a masters level, they would be masters… the diff between the two, more than likely, is CD management and ult usage which both require game sense. hog is the most braindead tank cause it’s walk in, hook/one shot and walk out while taking an absurd amount of damage that no other tank could take. there is literally no thought into that at all lol
@@vape42069 hog needs to hit hook and has low mobility, so when he gets out of position to hit his hook and misses the skill check, he mostly just dies. thats just very inconsistend value when compared to orisa or mauga value for the neglectable skill they need
My problem with LW specifically is that his grip has no interactivity. You could literally elim the LW during the pull and it still works. There's no way to cancel it. If you get on to a LW (as a tank main.) they can be impossible to kill especially as like a winston. All they do is just spam healing in a general direction in the back while on their platform which isn't interactive as an enemy player either. If they are jumped on they just use their dash which heals them more so they can run and it is incredibly obnoxious. If his abilities had more interactivity I likely would not feel this way, but he just isn't fun to play against.
I would have liked to see the results with all of the heros. - I think pharrah would be higher picked then junkrat in low ranks - Diva and rein could be picked in low ranks with the shield / matrix. - Tanks would possibly have hated Ana the most if that was an option
So I'm a QP warrior, placed silver last time I played comp in the start of S9. I answered as a flex player because that's what I do most but the great majority of my hours have been spent as a support on either Mercy or Kiri. The reason I think Widow and Sombra (my personal picks too) were high even in low ranks is the cheese aspect vs the skill issue aspect. Sombra feels like cheesing, it's hard to get my teammates to peel, even if I can get the Sombra away from me my teammates aren't generally going to follow up on her even if I ping her as she translocates. That's frustrating because I have to focus solely on the Sombra for a sec and that might lead to my tank or DPS dying and then they blame me. Widow is kind of the opposite. It's pretty rare but happens frequently enough that you remember it, Widows in QP or lower ranks have a much lower skill floor because everyone's movement and cover usage is really bad. When an average Widow comes into a low metal ranks lobby they can just annihilate my teammates because they don't usually play against her and are therefore not equipped to deal with her. On Kiri, even if I duel her, she might not notice lol. So she keeps on shooting at my walking in plain view Reaper while I try to aim at her from cover and far away so I take a while to get her. That's also attention I have to give her and sometimes can't afford, which is something I personally struggle with a lot. I also put Weaver and Kiri. I like playing Kiri but it's frustrating playing DPS against her or even dueling her as a Kiri myself. She can just leave a duel, she can three shot easily but realistically one shotting a chunked down target isn't that uncommon. Suzu is frustrating as a DPS and her hitbox is hard to hit as a worse than average aimer lol. Weaver is frustrating in many ways. It's annoying to almost confirm an elim but seeing it get gripped away. Some of the reason I chose him was also bias from past seasons (pre S9) where his sustain was just way too high. Playing against a LW was so frustrating because he was able to keep his team up through thick and thin and when a person got low enough to kill, he'd just grip them away. Similarly to Kiri, too, he's tough to duel. He has more Hp than other squishies and can get away on platform and use dash. Not talked about enough either, is how much damage thorns can do. Lobbing the first second or so of his thorns down a choke at head level leads to an hecatomb in lower ranks because no one expects that (although that's rarer and I discovered it while playing LW myself and was really satisfied at first lol). Hog is awful to play against as a noob because he punishes positioning mistakes quickly and requires my support play to throw utility into a teammate that was fine a second ago (so that's me wasting suzu on my Soldier while enemy Ana is getting ready to nade my low hp tank). I can't remember which other tank I picked. It might have been Doom from playing against him on tank (D.va usually), I have trouble peeling for my backline cuz I can't DM punch or slam and getting him away is a very temporary solution since he's a hyper mobile character. I will say, though, I'm much less bothered by Doom because he can get punished easier in lower ranks and that makes it more palatable. If Ball was played more I would have a bigger issue with him. I didn't pick Mauga because most Maugas I play against just run it down main and get punished swiftly. If I'm on support I'll often focus on bursting him down because chances are his CD usage isn't good and he's already vulnerable, which is usually the case. So playing against Mauga hasn't been too much of an issue for me. On tank, I play D.va or Ram so I'll usually swap D.va and kind of ignore him/DM his guns. I'll play it by getting on high ground and diving an isolated squishy and getting back with boosters. Any cut to a low rank Mauga's sustain is quickly lethal for him so I've found success with that. I don't find Mercy to be as frustrating because I have Mercy main brain worms. Also I know when an enemy Mercy wants to Rez so I'll be ready and ping a bunch. Most Mercys I've played against severely under utilise dmg boost so it also makes them inherently less frustrating. It can be a little annoying to kill her and Mercy is usually the last to die/reset and getting the elim is tough because of hyper mobility. I've found success playing Ashe or Cass against Mercys though, because I know where they are and where they want to go so I'm usually looking in the right place to begin with and I usually kill her by shooting and pinging. Idk what my QP MMR is. On my alt I usually play with gold-plat-diamond but my main was placed Silver in S9. I'm comp anxious but intend on playing again, I just gotta psych myself up
A better way to show the most hated “role x” distribution between roles is to add up the values of the 3 bars for each character and show every bar as a proportion of that number, so that it is obvious the difference in how hated that character is amongst roles. For example the Zenyata difference doesn’t look very big between roles but that is partially because the total values are low and if it was shown as a proportion the differences would be quite noticeable
As a support, the biggest reason I hate Zen is because he’s really good at getting back line picks before dive/brawl compositions can get close enough to fight within their ideal ranges. That means his poke damage is really significant, and often team positions in early ranks make it easy to get caught out and have to duel him from long range.
I think adding all heroes would have been much better than picking who spilo believes is annoying. Torb and bastion can be unfun to play against but i don't believe they are as unfun to play against as say tracer, mei or old pharmercy. And the poll kinda shows that they really aren't in the same convo as the other 3
Weaver being hated doesn't surprise me at all. On top of the thing of playing against him, being wrongly pulled by a teammate weaver is super annoying. Sometimes they will pull you just fine, but a lot of times they just pull you to be their personal bodyguard or because they didn't like your engage. A lot of times, when an annoying pull happens, I just let myself die out of spite.
8:49 It's not just about those tanks being tankbusters, all of these tanks have really good potential survivability either via their HP or via their escape-ability, and most importantly, Ball, Hog and Doom are displacement tanks, which can forcefully displace and stun other players, while those on the receiving end can pretty much never do anything to counteract. Which is also why I find it baffling that Doomfist/Ball players complain about people insta picking Sombra into them, when it's clear as day that literally nobody likes to play against a character who can punch you around the map at will, while also having 3x your hp, while also having multiple escape tools. I think it should be obvious that people just hate when something forcefully takes control of their character away from them. It should be extremely obvious based on how many people hated Brig having a stun alone.
My least favorites would be: Doomfist, Wrecking Ball Sombra, Tracer, Sojourn Zen, Kiri? Idk, none of the supports are that annoying. Sombra's TTK for a fast stealth hero is astonishing. Recently in a match, I started a Moira fade the same frame Sombra uncloaked, and my full-health teammate was gone before the fade ended.
I am SHOCKED that moira wasn't in the top 3 worst heroes to play against. Maybe because I'm a genji main but still, she feels like she has no downsides whatsoever and it the easiest healer to play by far
Even Lifeweaver players hate playing AS him sometimes, like when half our kit doesn't function the way it's supposed to. ie. Petal Platform not going up at random, Lifegrip's clunky interaction with collision.
I like playing sombra... i actually preferred old tp but the issue is primarily EMP hack. 1s hack is possible to cancel when you're aware it's coming and super survivable... but when emp goes off it feels like an eternity where you're just helpless and can't make any creative plays. I'd rather it do Anything else: I'd prefer a MASS sleep or a huge damage taken boost etc, rather than just sitting there on winston and watching your team die and your own health dissapear while you hold down your E for 3 full seconds.
From a main tank perspective Tank: Mauga, Orisa Both unkillable Dps: Sombra, Tracer If they diff your team you lose Supports: Ana, Kiriko As a tank main, smart ana and kiriko players are untouchable and counter everything you do
I dont think that people hating playing with sombra is whats skewing the results in low rank. recency bias might be contributing, but i really dont think its surprising that people hate being hacked or nuked from invis. Not to mention that hero is the first thing people swap to when any nontank hero on the other team is having fun
If I'd been allowed to pick what I wanted: Tank: Roadhog and Doomfist No explanation needed Damage: Genji and Tracer Genji takes coordination to counter and Tracer is always fucking meta Support: Mercy and Ana Mercy just carries fights by existing and erasing mistakes with res, and nobody shoots her. Ana carries games by just existing and spamming nade and pumping out healing, and you either swap to Kiriko or your own Ana or just lose.
Tank buster is a bit of a misnomer, what they really are high constant damage typically at close to mid range. And even the description is possibly wrong as that puts a Junk/Hanzo in the same category if you can land your shots.
I think a clear issue with all of these hated heroes in the lack of interaction with them and lack of counter play and engaging/rewarding counterplay on most heroes. There is also a severe lack of skill expression in a lot of what these heroes do like pressing E on the ground to nullify every ult in the game, teleporting instantly through walls, being perma invis, sitting 50m away from a fight up int he skybox and healbotting with the occational pressing E to pull someone out of the biggest mistake of their life, one shotting people by hooking their feet. There is no real counter play to a hero like kiriko, theres a heavy lack of risk vs reward and you cannot get a fair interaction with her, you're winning a 1v1 vs an enemy player? no ur not cause kiriko was just summoned through half the map to make sure thats not the case. you're winning a 1v1 vs her (already unlikely) she goes through 5 walls, shes in your backline and out of position? no she isnt cause now shes in their backline and will do the same disappearing act 7 seconds later again, you dive her cause she managed to tp into a bad position, you get her low hp and now she in invincible and gained half her hp back while still shooting at you, she managed to miss all her truck sized shots and she disappears again like she was never even there, you shattered her entire team? no you didnt, you hit a big anti? no you didnt, finally managed to hit your pulsebomb on any of the 5 heroes? cool now u used a hard to hit ult to force out a cooldown. All you can do vs kiriko is forcing her cooldowns and that is NOT counterplay. Most characters cant even shoot at lifeweaver because hes on the other side of the map, their tank ints, you and your team used half their teams cooldowns on it and he just disappears and flies while invincible across half the map. you can shoot 10 clips into the hog but if you dont have cc hes still full hp and you just landed yourself a golden ticket back to spawn after you got 1 shot by a tank thats 20 meters away. sombra is invisible for 80% of the game and the other 20% is spent spawn camping your zen, appearing out of thin air to 1 shot you and playing houdini by disappearing right infront of your eyes. You peak the wrong corner and you just got 1 shot by the widowmaker thats 50m away, and even if she didnt kill you, that entire sightline she has is now a minefield where theres a 50% chance that you get your head blown off. and the fact that they seem to keep designing character like this. I hope no one read to the end on this one as half of it is just me venting my pure hatred of kiriko and everything she does.
Looooved this stat breakdown. I was surprised people hate Mauga more than Orisa. I am a simple man, and I enjoy simple things. Like playing Mauga (Silver/Gold). I enjoy shooting things, and Mauga lets you shoot all the things at all ranges. Personally, I think Mauga-haters still have a bias from when he was overpowered at launch. Also, Mauga can fight back at any range, and people hate tanks that can fight back and kill them at multiple ranges. People don't hate range limited tanks. I like that Spilo is pushing for skill expression in abilities... but skill expression alone doesn't mean a character is fun to play against. People seem to like exploitable weaknesses (like range)... and I'm unsure if "ability on cooldown" is enough of an "exploitable weakness" to sway people's opinion, and make a character fun to play against... if that makes sense. Last feedback: instead of poll of two hated tanks, do a 1-5 scale of "hate to play against" for each tank. I'm betting any tanks with clear exploitable weaknesses are liked more than well-around tanks like Mauga, Hog and Orisa.
I think the issue with Sombra really is that she just cheats the system and natural value exchange entirely, with perma invis and hack from invis. Especially in lower ranks this holds even more value, because natural value exchange is the only thing that speaks to people who don't have as strong game sense, so when there's a permanently invisible cunt of a hacker running around the map, they have that constant feel of backstabbing risk that they seemingly can't do much about either. The perceived counterplay is borderline non-existent, regardless of whether the Sombra is actually effective or not. In higher ranks this gets mitigated somewhat by the fact that Sombra is more punishable once she commits to getting value, and you can be more reliant on the fact that your team knows how to deal with the Sombra and the tempo is so high that things are moving around the map constantly so you're always in a heightened sense of alertness regardless of whether there's a Sombra nearby or not. But the total break of the value exchange system related to positioning and sight lines and resources-for-space, is the core reason why so many people hate Sombra, especially in lower ranks where one character that cheats the system has much more impact on people's perception of the gameplay they're interacting with. And keep in mind, this is the same for Kiriko. She cheats the value exchange system. She can tp through walls and appear out of nowhere to skew a fight a player thought they were winning, she's near impossible to chase down and duel, she cleanses so many abilities retroactively, and she has random headshot rng hits that are especially effective towards lower rank players that have a higher tendency to just stroll down main and put themselves in spammable positions without even realizing it.
I also think the notion of people parroting content creators, is almost irrelevant. People at the end of the day have far greater psychological reaction to what they actually encounter in the game, than what they hear online, when it comes to actual gameplay elements that are tangible and directly impacts them -vs softer concepts like opinion on format and meta and stuff. At the core, I think people just really hate playing against characters that don't appear to follow a fair value exchange system in the gameplay loop. Sombra permanently invisible can avoid all sight lines and cheat positioning and timing. Kiri can teleport and cleanse retroactively and hit big rng damage shots through infinite range spam. LW can retroactively pull people out who committed genuine mistakes, or revoke value that you achieved through a skill exchange vs the LW's ally -and he's also just a healbot like Mercy except he just sits like a turret instead of having active movement. It doesn't feel like fair value exchange to fight them. Same with Mauga and Hog, it feels like whenever they actually get value, it's through unfair propped up stats and brainless mitigation. Widow also cheats the system by simply taking you out from Narnia whenever she lands her shots, so she either comes off as obsolete, or a server admin, with very little in between.
I don't really mind kiriko, yeah, suzu, yeah, tp, the only thing why I dislike the character is how much value she can get just by spamming shots. That on top of everything else I can't take
I was surprised Genji didn't make the list of most hated dps. Every Overwatch group I go to or stream I watch, the supports and a good bunch of people complain that Genji is ridiculous or that he needs to be nerfed, that he's OP, etc...
even if I understand mercy isnt very good i put her on my hate list just cause her design is fundamentally flawed and my opinion wont change until she gets a good rework or something
i mostly play tank + ball so its no shock that i choose sombra but im looking at as objectively as i can. she is literally designed to stop you enjoying/playing the game. shes obnoxious and a low skill hard counter to a high skill floor hero being ball who by the way spent most the game in bottom tiers . every single game i have to play against one lol and often i can win/out play even still as ball but its soooooo boring. just her PRESENCE means i cant be the initial space creator for the team anymore, i have to play angles and have her in the back of my mind all the time. mean while she just chillls in invis and waits patiently to punish me from whatever angle she chooses. i think the rework helped in making her at least punishable but i still just think the kit and playstyle is flawed from the beginning. her lack of being in the fight makes her often detrimental to her own teams success (been fixed abit with the changes) and her existence makes the other teams experience more of a chore. horrible character design imo literally the definition of fun police
Im thinking that part of the tank roster being the way that it is is how easy it is to stop them from playing the game. If the enemy team has a good doomfist, its very easy to swap sombra and/or cass and instantly shut down his entire character whereas a character like roadhog is trickier to deal with. I think you are right about ball though i think its mostly due to people not liking playing with him.
Also i think large part of it is the gap in skill expression at high and low end. A good doomfist is really good but a bad doomfist ints and provides literally zero value, so people dont mind as much since he is mechanically challenging so not everyone is playing him at the highest level. Whereas a good mauga is really good and a bad mauga is just good because he gets value from just holding both guns on the tank. For doomfist to be annoying he needs positioning and game sense; he cant just 1v1 the tank in the middle of the fight, where as any jimmy can pick up mauga, charge in and sit on the tank until someone else dies and his team wins the fight.
A lot of the hate for Kiriko comes from her suzu if we are being honest. As someone who plays her (too much for my liking), it almost feels illegal to suzu someone that was 1hp then see their health go up to damn near full, when in no world they deserved to live. I think the devs need to look into ways to nerf suzu while still keeping her viable.
Changing Suzu may have implications because it's one of the few abilities that counter Sombra. Fending off Sombra's hacks has been a challenge, and reworking Suzu could be tricky with Sombra in her current state. It would probably make the overall community way happier to rework Sombra without invisibility before touching Suzu imho
@@HamburgerWasteland I’m not trying to discount you but I highly doubt Sombra is why Suzu is overturned. Abilities and effects like Ana nade and JQ ult make Suzu a must. Meanwhile Sombra can be outhealed and countered by supports like Moira and Brig. I definitely feel like Suzu not canceling stuns was an amazing direction and they should look into potentially removing the immortality from Suzu.
@PoolGyall5441: Oh, I 100% agree with that. There are a lot of good heroes like Moira and Brig that can counter Sombra effectively. That said, Sombra's hack is quite oppressive, and Suzu is technically the only ability in the game that can directly counter her hack. Considering how annoying Sombra's hack can be, I think it's important to have at least one ability that can disable it.
My little brother and my girlfriend started playing OW recently so I may have interesting insights and data abt what they hate (I swear I didnt force them to, she was curious and he said he would diff me eventually) So, the little guy said he hated moira as a concept. I told him it could be good to get used to the basics of the game without needing to focus on aim. He said no, pointed to lucio bc we're brasilian and kiri bc hes a weeb and asked how skillful they were. This shows that there are players who may be getting absolutely rolled and are fully overhelmed by the game, but still want to avoid things they see as unskillful (even tho I tried to lie abt how skillful moira is) he is a kiri main as of right now, with interest in playing lucio as a secondary pick He hates roadhog, it makes him miserable bc he cannot position well or save someone being hooked bc it happens too quickly and he has no muscle memory (this is his first PC game ever) He hasnt expressed other hatred when playing with me that I remember (I am plat btw, just so yall know what kind of skill the game had to balance for) As for the silly pretty girl with a cute smile, she has a bit of shooter experience, but she doesnt really like shooters bc she is bad at them (this is also bc of equipment in my analisis), she just plays them with friends. She was curious abt OW bc she knows Im addicted and know that theres a bunch of weird powers and shit and its not just shoot the guy with the gun. She is insanely overhelmed by the game, especially bc she only plays with me, but is already a hater. She hates : hog, mauga, junkrat, bastion, tracer, Junker Queen. She specifically said that she hates stuff that doesnt die as explanation for mauga and hog. For junker queen its bc she was always on her face doing a lot of damage to her and pulling her, but when I made her look closely at her design she apologized and called her mommy For tracer I think its bc of her aim problem, she asks me to not hold back against her in deathmatch between games, and she has a lot of trouble with the blinks Junkrat is self explanatory, bastion too bc she forgets to be near cover. Maybe important info, she has tested moira and liked her but got bored super quick, now she is becomin a phara main it seems, tho she admitted that she likes cass and hanzo too but avoids playing them bc of her aim. She had a moment or two against moira but doesnt seem to hate her like the rest Last thing bc its funny, the second time we played she wanted to try playing tank. She audibly hated it and intensely fears playing it it seems, but she likes the game a lot as a whole
I definitely chose lw with a clear bias about how much I hate playing WITH lifeweaver (I read the question correctly I just didn’t care). It’s not like it’s not annoying having the purple 1hp target get pulled, purple expires mid pull and they get healed up before becoming vulnerable again so I felt it was still justified. But lifeweaver, I would LOVE to see deleted from the game. I’d buy battle passes JUST for that sort of privilege even if it had no skins included
Should be widowmaker imo, only character that can oneshot anything that is not a tank from a safe distance. It is ridiculous since day 1, she doesn't fit in the ow theme and playstyle since this is not a conventional shooter
As a support main that likes trying to improve on LW, it feels like you're in a 1v9 at times. Team mates get mad at one failed pull MUCH more than rezzing someone and them dying again. Rez compared to pull only provides positive but pull can literally cause ur team mate to throw even if you were trying to save them 😅. He doesnt have the same dmg utility that mercy does so it feels like crap in comparison. I honestly think they should lower the petal hp to like 250 or 300 and give him 2 charges instead on maybe 8 secs. Let ppl experience his utility more and make more plays, maybe rework pull? Maybe team interacting makes it more like a catapult farther away than closer lol
kiriko sombra player here, if you remove the paseout from suzu and give it back the MICRO boop, id be very happy. i dont see the boop ever returning but it was a rare and FUNpart of the kit. ive never seen a player mad from the microboop knocking off the map, instead they would be impressed, because it was so hard to pull off [and of course the patch they remove it, they introduce illari withy a MEGA boop... the thing with sombra is her invis is too good, and that makes playing against her insanely frustrating. give it a nonperfect invis, give it some light distortions or something to show where she is to an astute observer. and i'll trade my left nut for the translocator change reverted. new translocator took away SO MANY potential uses of it and and forced ONE single possibility. and that feels awful
The devs seem to struggle with understanding how it feels like to fight against certain things in the game which is how things like one shots, immortality, and other issues still persist. For example, Sombra being able to hack and kill someone in under 5 seconds and then go immediately invisible, or Widow one-shotting you across the map would be something someone should understand is unfair, but these devs don't see that somehow
I totally understand the kiriko resentment. Shes a hero with a tiny hitbox, decent heals, insane utility , insane mobility. She can gimp kill you from across the map and can duel any squishy comfortably .
they should switch hack to being virus itself, that way sombra at least has to aim to hack someone, the same way with some mauga interacctions, cage makes your worthless as a doom and ult shouldn't be an automatic win the fight. finally kiriko is a granade that you don't really have to aim, splash should be much lower or maybe made into a kunai of invicibility and a cleanse granade for your team (that maybe shares cooldowns) the problem is not really abilities being broken but also they being very hard to pull of.
Kiriko and roadhog have to change, basically. If the devs are interested in changing things like making hanzo unable to charge and climb, or reduce dooms stun duration to “make things less frustrating to play against” they should use data like this to find out what things are actually the most frustrating to play against. For Kiriko, suzu is the problematic ability most of all I think, the most unique part of it being the intangibility. I think they get rid of that and things will be a lot better. You can heal and cleanse and even make them immune to damage if you want, but please don’t make them uninteractable.
Road hog is my “my team are brain dead” pick. When your dps suck at confirming kills and your supports aren’t supporting you I don’t feel like I can do anything other than pick hog and play him as a further back dps. Hook people out of position, poke, breath and sustain. Road hog is a necessary evil of the game being team based
About: Hog, Sombra, Widow, LW and Kiri Hog: I hate his survivability (when you do not have Ana). Sometimes Hog can live forever if he plays cover properly. Besides that, I can tolerate hook. Good Hogs are hatable. When the player is bad, I do not care. Key idea: "Immortality" Sombra: I can tolerate Virus, invisibility, and the translocator... but the hack is one of the most frustrating CDs in the game. The disabling "you cannot play the game" is so dumb. I am not talking about whether that thing is balanced, weak, or op. It is not funny. I do not care if the player is good or bad, being hacked is super annoying, even if you kill Sombra after. Key idea: She denies your fun. Widow: I used to hate her a lot but I admit requires skill. She is not an easy hero. My problem is that Widow (one shot) does not fit in OW2. Circuit Royal, Habana, Numbani... if they have a good Widow on these maps it is just gg. The one-shot + bad map design is a big problem. Key idea: You cannot interact with her. LW: If you die on LW you suck. The survivability on LW is so annoying. Good LWs just live forever, they are untouchable. Dash (healing), and petal platform (shield and high ground) are too much. The CD trade (as DPS vs LW) feels unfair. He can correct mistakes so easily. Key idea: You cannot interact with him fairly. Kiri: The problem is that she can do anything. I do not hate her, she is super fun to play but it is too much. Damage, survivability, and mobility (and one of the best ults in the game). Key idea: Her kit is too much, just nerf one aspect (idea: If she uses tp, then she cannot use suzu... if she uses suzu then tp is not available). Last one... DELETE FKN PHARA.
There have been bad metas out there but Mauga was the only meta where me and my friend as well as some other people I know straight up stopped playing the game.
I think you have to take into account the heroes people play. For example I only play genji on dps and moira is my personal most hated support. I’m not high rank but, I watched Necros unranked to GM series and was talking about how he wouldn’t normally duel a moira and he’s a top 500 player possibly the best genji. It doesn’t really seem right that such a low skill character hard counters one of the most mechanically intensive characters.
@@BeastMode-bw2ry I'm not the only one here who notices. There's another post here, 76 likes at the moment, and they explain it well; the second hero they mention is Hog. A tank with a one shot? Lol. The hook was fine before, until they recently gave him one shot back.
I do not have Twitter so I did not access the form but I will thoroughly answer here because I think I can provide unique insight. I stopped playing comp in the fall so I’m not fully up to date on stuff but peak GM 1 Tank, GM 2 DPS, GM 1 Support. So I’ve got pretty good game sense and mechanics. I took a long break and now I actually play Quick Play with work friends who have recently gotten into the game. Brand new players, Bronze 5 at best for some but I’m coaching them. In QP I’ll be matched with silver through t500 it’s a mess but my perspective as a high level player but not active comp player is. As tank Mauga annoys me, I am versatile and can play just about any tank so Hog doesn’t annoy me as much but Mauga’s cardiac overdrive affecting allies is honestly stupid. It’s like of Orisa fortify gave her team fortify. Mauga is boring to play against, he’s just bleh, ttk is unreasonable. I do not like being against Mei or Sombra, even if I’m never killed by them they’re just irritating. And I don’t like being against zen. Discord is stupid no skill ability, press a button and you can blow me up plus his charge shots, it’s just very low skill for high reward. It forces me into a more dive style but it’s hard to dive on Circuit. On my team I don’t like Sombras, I feel like they don’t understand when to apply pressure or who to target, I feel like they just do their thing and don’t think about the game. I don’t like Mercy as support, she’s worthless and mercy players have zero game sense On dps I don’t like mauga or hog as tank, I feel like nothing ever happens. It’s not the tank busting aspect for me it’s the just slooow pace. I don’t like having characters like junk as my other dps. I hate mercy on support for my team. The other team I don’t care for mauga hog, just boring, I don’t like Sombra or junk on the other team, once again even if they get no value it’s annoying. I just don’t like characters who’s whole kit makes me roll my eyes. I actually don’t like Moira or Kiri, not a fan of easy escapes when I nearly kill you. At least if bap uses lamp he can only try to hop away if he’s in a bad spot, Moira and kiri press a button and now if I wanna finish the kill I need to overextend unless I’m tracer. As support I don’t like Doomfist or Dva as enemy tank because they’ll be pressuring me more than a rein would or even mauga and I play Ana a lot so anti kinda beats up the annoying self heal tanks. I don’t like playing with doom or mauga or hog. Mauga hog are just boring, dooms have a bad tendency of overextending and breaking los. I don’t like having Sombra on my dps, they don’t ever time things right. Wait until I anti to virus you idiot! I hate playing against pharah echo and Sombra, Sombra is annoying and if you don’t have a hit scan specialist on dps it’s annoying, I’ll go bap and be fine with fliers but it’s annoying to have a genji tracer crying for heals while I’m being bombed. And as support moiras annoy me, not necessarily them trying to 1v1 back line but more like once every 50 games I die to a skill orb and it ENRAGES me.
Orisa for tank, tracer for dps and kiri for support. Orisa is just braindea, no fun to play, no fun to play against. Tracer: i respect a good tracer and can appreciate the skill it takes to be good with her but god that little mosquito blinking around is annoying. Kiri cuz her kit is a do it all kit that just isnt fair. She can get away bad positioning for free and a decent kiri is really hard to punish. Plus her E disables most ultimates in the game and that shouldnt be a thing
Interesting poll, I have to say I've struggled to name 2 Tanks and 2 dps because I dont really hate a lot of them. However I missed venture on the list, I hate to play vs them with a passion.
I am junker queen main and nothing feels worse then not being to ult cause kiriko exist and the worst part is how much i have to bait aside from suzu im the worst comp i have to bait a total of 2 cooldowns and 1 ult and at worstt every player cam counter my ult
A factor worth discussion in regards to Kiriko's hate has a lot to do with her perception. Projectile is still viewed by the vast majority of the community as "rng" instead of a show of mechanical skill like hitscan. Because of this, Kiri is often incorrectly regarded as an easy hero to play, which only magnifies the hatred of her strong cooldowns.
@racmanov You can be forgiving and still difficult to utilize if your tools still demand you to perform at a certain level. Sojourn being a fairly notorious example of being difficult even by blizzards standards, yet having a very forgiving kit. Kiri's damage is still locked to headshots on a projectile that is objectively harder to hit than any of the other supports, her suzu demands an understanding of when to use it per game, her strong healing is supplemented by the fact that trying to healbot with her will put your team at a disadvantage compared to doing so with the other healers. I think this is highlighted in her (considering her power) surprisingly low winrate.
@@MhnFive she is not difficult m8. Soujorn is also not difficult. I mean even in diamond just farm the tank and delete him with headshoots worked pretty well Only forgiving character that is hard atm is genji
Kiri is extremely easy to get most of her value with. I’ve seen many kiris in high diamond/ low master elo have sub-1000 damage games, just healbotting. Getting 100% of kiri’s value - reaching the skill ceiling - is very difficult. But kiri’s baseline value is way higher than it should be. People are basically playing mercy (in terms of skill/effort) with even more survivability and the infinite value of suzu. Not to mention that when kiris actually do damage, a lot of it is from head height spamming from long range. There’s barely any risk involved in playing her the way most people play her. As an offrole support player and a lucio main, kiri is pretty damn easy to win with in ranked; despite her high skill ceiling.
@@racmanovYes, in diamond where players are significantly more competent than the majority of the playerbase. As experienced players, I'm aware we've grown to view diamond as a mediocre rank but we need to acknowledge that to the literal majority of the playerbase, diamond is considered a goal so high that masters is incomprehensible. The skill-disparity of Sojourn at high & low ranks was directly cited as an early reason for Sojourn not getting nerfed in prior patches. Even now, she sits at the lowest winrate of all dps picks on overbuff. Yes, there are a lot of bad sojourn players. But perhaps that's indicative of something besides a coincidentally large amount of bad players.
I think the biggest Doom issue is actually his ult. When a doom makes a mistake and you have him dead to rights and invest in the kill... he literally goes to space. It's not a movement ability he DISAPPEARS instantly. Even wrecking ball has to plan a functional escape. Super obnoxious that it has no counterplay whatsoever. It's the closest thing to a retcon in the game like if a tank had recall!
100+ hours on doom here. I feel like meteor strike used to be fine, since escaping and going to a health pack/your supports means giving up a lot of space and pressure. The healing effect during his ult sucks. I hate it. One of the worst balance changes they've done in a while. Every time they "buff" doom, they just make him easier and more annoying. The devs don't know how to balance doom
@@abudgie6909 I mean I hate the healing because it's just definitive proof the devs are so out of touch on doom they end up nerfing him when trying to give him a buff. It's more insulting than the bugs that get worse after every "fix". There's genuinely not a chance that a single dev plays doom at all when they don't understand the ult or especially how they don't notice doom is unplayably bugged like beginning of s9 or back when they made his block not block damage.
I’m a diamond console player, my issue with sombra isn’t even with her effectiveness, or how good of a hero she is, it has to do with what she does and how it happens, I, as a large amount of the heroes in overwatch 2 can be hacked out of my ultimate and not even be able to see her til it’s done. It just feels bad to play against, of course I should be tracking her hacks, but I can’t track them all, and hack has a super small cooldown. It just feels bad
people dont like lifeweaver because bad lifeweaver players using life grip improperly is miserable and those 1/10 experiences influence their opinion on the character as a whole. I personally play lifeweaver situationally (im mainly a zenyatta/moira player) and i find his kit to be very fun, if anything a bit underpowered with a few flaws (weapon swap lag, movement speed slowing down with healing blossom)
As a Sombra main (when I play DPS), I think her hate is extremely overexaggerated and I'm unsurprised to see that lower ranks HATE her. Sombra is extremely punishing to lower ranked players because: -She's a hard character to kill for those with less mechanical skill -She's especially hated by controller players because controllers make her hard to counter (i.e. can't turn around fast or chase after her effectively) -She punishes players who lack game sense or cooldown management -People are under the assumption Sombra is easy mode, when that's DEFINETLY not the case. Being good at Sombra takes mechanical skill and game sense, and you can tell when somebody only went Sombra because "she's invisible and I hear she's OP". It's funny though, because as a Sombra main, she's really not that good against skilled players. As I go up in ranks, the players easily counter me, spy check, dive after me etc. However, I can see why GMs would be afraid of a competent GM Sombra though. For the most part though, Sombra hate stems from skill diffs 99% of the time. She takes way too much effort to get kills/value from, so if you die to her a lot, it's on you (or, the Sombra outplayed you in a fair situation). Either way, I'll continue to main her, mainly just because she's fun to play tbh.
Its less because of pure effectiveness and more because denying people the opportunity to use their abilities in an ability based game will always be annoying and even rage inducing no matter how you slice it. She's hated similarly to why stuns are hated: they take away player agency.
He literally said sombra was hated in all ranks lol. Oh yes, so skillful to attack an enemy that can’t see or hear you. Yup, I got outplayed sooooo much by that. Get this in your head: Information in a shooter game is critical. A hero that cannot be seen or heard while moving around with no cover, is the worst game design choice possible. You have guaranteed opening damage on every engagement, and have disabled their abilities already. Not to mention the element of surprise. There is no fair situation when playing against her. You just huddle up with your supports because supports are still strong af. Doing that, however, presents a tactical problem because there are many heroes that take advantage of teams that are playing close together. She’s been good in every meta this season, and is always slept on because a few heroes (namely Tracer) that are great in every meta gatekeep her. Not to mention how few players coordinate with sombra in ranked.
@mag1cman777 Yep. The closest comparison from Fps is probably spy from tf2. And at least he can't be permanently invisible, can't hack you and his main attack, backstabbing, requires him to be in melee range. Plus he has no "get out of jail free" translocator if the player has bad positioning.
Sombra is hated at lower ranks because either players don't notice Sombra is shooting them from behind during the fight or if she is hitting virus, teammates don't turn around and help you win the fight...
shame i both did not know about this survey and it does not consider all heroes as I think the numbers would change. at least from a bronze support perspective. with heroes like Ana being lothed more than Kiri and tanks like Dva, Doom and Winton. due to dive for the most point. with hated dps being somthing like widow, junk, Venture above heroes like Genji sombra tracer
I like playing as lifeweaver, but his healing just isn't good. If his healing charged automatically like illari's regular fire does. i would finally be able to help when the other team rushs
Not t sure if this os factored into your numbers but there will be an element of hate playing with and hate playing against. Low ranks aren't so fond of playing with hog because he feeds and doesn't tank but probably aren't as fussed playing against him due to low hook accuracy in low ranks.
There's also probably just bias from how a character feels Mauga has a low pick and win rate but people still voted for him a ton, hog on the other hand is being picked a lot and winning more especially in higher ranks so I can see people's frustrations there because we're seeing a lot more of him now but personally I don't hate him since there are ways of denying his value and make him miss hooks or not be able to escape I think perception is a big thing here too some characters might feel worse to play vs than they actually are
i hate sombra cause i’m bad and i can’t counter her or face her properly, but i’m getting better i guess, think more before decide if i go into her or just run away. a GOOD sombra focusing me (dva) fucks my game 100% and good sombras decide games too (if nobody in the team deals with her), important role
who do you think is the hero that's most under/overrated with the hate they receive?
Mauga
Pharah gets way too much hate, she is significantly higher skill than most people give her credit for (especially after the rework), and ultimately is over hated purely because people don't like looking up despite the fact she has a substantially larger hitbox and slower time to kill than Echo.
fuck tracer
Was about to say myself.
At least for now, and in the past mauga
He's easy to *play* when you stand in front of him as a solo player
He's much,much harder to play well, or at least well against a good team/enemy tank. He has one of the most prominently easy to ding hotboxes. Focus fire eats him the same way it eats reins. And to make plays he's often forced to put himself in positions where supports likely need to save him, cool downs up or not. Until he has charge to leave with.
Tankfist was a mistake, aoe slam feels wrong on both sides, bring back uppercut, tune down punch, bring back zoomslam reticle.
Or-16a is ok, but definitely became many players crutch, the same way OW1 ori5a did.
Hog just feels too thick without a full team looking at him now. And that does kinda suck. And hook one shot has always been his thing, and some people just hate that he has a kill range on them.
Outside of ult doom walks on maugas teams unless he can't read a charge slam when blocking.
Doom is 100% my most hated
I just want Sombras hack to feel like it matters again, and for her to not be a literal invisible assassin for my supports.
I will always be amazed how people can be so hateful and critical towards the characters in this poll and for some reason, excuse Ana from all of that. I think nostalgia from everyone enjoying season 3 of overwatch 1 is the only reason people refuse to accept she's the most frustrating character to play against in this entire game. I don't think people consider how much she single-handedly decides the outcome of every team fight and how her existence alters the meta even when she isn't picked at the highest level of play (because people pick characters that would counter her from the start just because of how strong she is), and I even believe the 5v5 vs 6v6 debate wouldn't exist + tank wouldn't feel bad to play for most people if Ana didn't have anti-nade.
When I pick Ana, I win a teamfight for free by pressing E on the ground on a few opponents and can do that more frequently than suzu can cleanse it. I cannot be flanked by only one person because I can just sleepdart them, or play my range from so far away that opponents cannot engage with me. I need to have multiple opponents work together to merely displace me, and several seasons had the second healer exist for the sole purpose of babysitting the Ana player (various Ana/Brig metas). And if my opponents focus anybody besides me, I have the tools to reversal any engagement with nade/sleep and now even nanoboost since it instantly heals the receiver for some reason. Regardless of meta, the mere concept of a support sniper who can turn around every teamfight singlehandedly with 2 ultimates as cooldowns is fundamentally broken and needs to be reworked/nerfed into the ground before Blizzard makes ANY CHANGES TO ANY OTHER HEROES/SYSTEMS for the game to be more enjoyable at all levels of play.
I truly don't comprehend how people hate Kiriko, Bap, or any healer, but not Ana. This character is absolutely disgusting but gets overlooked because she's fun to play or something? I don't get it.
Weaver's pull is possibly the most annoying ability to play against IMO besides suzu. Like my teammate always says when we play comp "I see a mistake, I go to punish the mistake and then magically the mistake is gone" its so tilting.
i feel like this is an elo issue. when weaver is played in 4k+ scrims he’s used to enable early cd usage on an engage (mostly early queen shouts) which is normally bad because it can be kited and easily punished, but with weaver your tank gets to int for free. in this sense weaver’s pull is actually pretty dynamic and interesting. you’re 100% right in low elo’s though supports should not have such strong get out of jail free cards.
At least grip has quite a cooldown
To be fair, it is equally as frustrating to be on Support and watch your team make the mistake with no way to interact or stop it.
I've watched Reins or Orisas charge into the enemy team to 1v5, blow up, and now everyone is looking at me on Zenyatta.
And I think compared to Suzu, there is the tradeoff with Life Grip as you can easily lose alot of space or pull people away from duels they might've won, so there's a bigger emphasis on skill expression and game sense
I'd argue it's worse than Suzu in that at least it never feels bad to be Suzu'd by a teammate. Pull feels bad to play against and can feel just as bad to play with.
@@nicholasmoscufo416 this is an issue in high elo also. I dont mind weaver in team environments and actually he is really weak and easy to punish when used in the way you are explaining. The issue I have is I make the effort to punish someone, force the life grip, and then by the time I am able to pressure/punish another mistake myself he has it again so there is a reliance on my team to do something. Its similar with suzu but that doesnt physically remove the person from my LOS/range
I think it's very simple why each hero is hated as much as they are:
Sombra - An ability disabling hero... in an ability based game. People play the game to use abilities, when you actively prevent them from doing that in a no skilled annoying way (perma invis, hack being a "just be on my screen and it'll land" ability), people will naturally hate the hero.
Roadhog - A tank... with a one shot combo. That should be enough to throw this freak of a hero design under the bus but even on top of that you've got an 800 HP hero who's basically impossible to kill unless you send a small task force after him or just spam anti's on him all game. Since they've removed stuns as a counter since now his heals is a resource meter and just goes on a very short cooldown when cancelled.
Kiriko - Dive players hate her because they cannot physically dive her. Wall climb, 30 meter teleportation escape ability, can duel you if you're a squishy and just suzu when low or TP out. Everyone else hates her because suzu just counters everything. You need a burst of healing? It does that. You need immortality? It does that. You need intangibility for that doom about to punch so he can just phase through you and now he's out of position? It does that. You need a cleanse? It does that. When she's being played the ENTIRE game now revolves around dealing with her and trying to force suzu out so that you can physically get value out of your ultimates because she can just cancel or deny most of them.
Lifeweaver - Lifegrip is a free value immortality... there's nothing you can do about it when going against it and it can be infuriating when used wrong while playing WITH it. There's no real counterplay to lifegrip. The counterplay is basically "go to try and kill someone and just try to force lifegrip as soon as possible so that free kill denial is used early instead of later" and that's just dumb. Not to mention you also need a small task force to kill him because the combination of low dash cooldown + elevator + support passive means he can just cycle his shit and you WILL NOT kill him.
Perfect take. All these heroes need reworks ASAP. I’d argue overwatch’s biggest problem right now is terrible hero designs like these ones. People like to argue about 5v5, and I’m personally in the 6v6 camp, but both formats could work pretty well if the heroes were all somewhat fun and interactive.
Not just the hack on Sombra. The hack virus combo is something you cannot play against if you dont have supps looking at you.
The bigger issue with Sombra is how she constantly has impact. Supports knowing she exists somewhere behind them makes playing the game fundamentally not fun. Tracer and Genji are well made flankers, as they can be beat with good positioning or skill, but Sombra will win a 1v1 vs any ability-based hero unless you just stand next to your team. All heroes have a chance against Tracer or Genji.
@@abudgie6909Yep, Overwatch was always a design problem, not a format problem. This was obvious when they spent 10+ seasons making characters weaker/stronger due to the abscence of an off tank.
Alot of characters would benefit from a full on rework, instead of just tweaking numbers and calling it a day.
I do think flat out removing Mauga Hog Orisa Sombra Kiriko Baptiste Lifeweaver Illari and Widow the game would be actually better. These characters don’t play by the rules and either get too much value with too little effort, or are far too difficult to punish.
Very surprised you did not come to what I would consider the obvious conclusion as to why Sombra is hated universally, but especially in low ranks, where general game knowledge and skill are low. I do not think this is mostly a visibility issue. She, like just about every hero that was voted highly*, reduces player agengy. In other words, she excels at the cardinal sin of multiplayer-games: One player one sidedly acting upon another, while the other either is never given the opportunity to react, or only ever gets to react with a heavy disadvantage.
There's nothing worse in a multiplayer game, a test of skill between people, than to feel like you are either denied the opportunity to even enter the contest, or not start on equal footing.
Sombra induces a feeling of helplessness like nobody else. She appears out of nowhere, always at the worst possible timing for you, and she starts the engagement with a heavy advantage.
To rub insult to injurty, she is seemingly not even punished if her attept fails as she also has a get-out-of-jail-for-free card in her TP.
I really liked your deep dive into the psychology of tanks, and a similar thing takes place here. Even if chasing the Sombra away may be an advantage in itself if we look at the bigger picture, it feels like a lose-lose. And that is what matters. She feels uniquely terrible to play against, even if you do everything right.
*Different heroes deny interaction in different ways, and not every hero voted highly here is notorious for this issue, even though all of them have this problem to some degree.
A few Examples:
-Orisa being unkillable, especially due to her shiny mode -> lack of interactvity
-Widow oneshotting people -> death without any opportunity to react
-Kiriko, Lifeweaver, Mercy, Moira -> ridiculously hard to kill due to get-out-of-jail-for-free abilities = feels like you cannot interact with them properly -> feeling of helplessness/unfairness
-Torb, Junk and again moira -> feeling of unfairness due to the seemingly "unearned" value they get with spam/turret/succ -> doesn't feel like a fair fight
-Bastion and Zen make the tank they play against feel helpless due to creating an "uneven playing field"
If you haven't made a video about how interaction denial is the main source of player frustration I think you'd do a great job at analysing the game and it's issues from this angle.
I for one would love to hear your thoughts on the topic.
I wouldn't quite say lifeweaver has a get out of jail free ability, but rather that he can cast one on someone else, I think it's different.
Incredible take. My biggest frustration with Sombra is that by now I’ve gotten pretty consistent at dealing with her denying her value but the sheer fact that as a Zen-Ana main when you impose yourself on the game it’s almost guaranteed Sombra will be the pick to try and shut you down and even when it’s clearly not working they prefer to stick to the “counter”
Honestly the tp is what gives people the lack of control even more.Say you land your shots just enough and you died. You cant even call your teammates to potentially finish her off as she tps away to a hacked health pack and be back to harass you off respawn.
To contrast this to spy from tf2 who has a literal one shot, is forced to play with low hp with no mobility tools often to get in and/or get out (dead ringer in means not getting out most of the time). But he's forced to play into such close range with a narrow hitbox you can actually counterplay him as any character. Unlike Sombra who can play in any range and a tp thats instant to almost instant. Sombras that know what they're doing generally are a nuisance, great disruptor/assassin, info gatherers and what's her con? She has average to low dps. Wow, what a great downside for ALL OF THAT.
Yea I was a little shocked by his take on sombra as well
Figured it was obvious why we all hate sombra, she just embodies every gamer sin, and even when they sorta fixed the sin of escaping last second and denying someone a deserved kill on you, they added the gamer sin of dot 😂
But she has the gamer Sins of auto aim, crowd control, invis, escaping right as you're about to kill her and now dot, and idk how combining all these into 1 hero didnt instantly kill the game tbh because it's like a perfectly crafted nuke they just dropped in their game.
Perfect
Surprised Pharah wasn't on the damage poll
Also Hanzo. Boy, I sure do love being oneshot across the map by random spam!
as a data scientist you can normalize the data vs the pick-rate, even thought you needed to separate per rank data , but if you average the pick-rate should bring new light to the statistics
Email him and offer to help with the spreadsheet?
The reason sombra is so hated in the lower ranks is the spawn camping. Lower rank players don’t peel back to help people getting solo deleted coming out of spawn. Super annoying. And I think lifeweaver is so hated because he feels unkillable. His health pool is so large and the dash giving him health is so frustrating.
The lack of spychecking doesn't help either. I really think the infinite invis is far more unhealthy than hack.
I don't run into spawn camping sombras but what I do run into is me knowing that there's a sombra behind me and then I spray a few shots just to see if the sombra is behind me and I get no hits and then as soon as I turn around I immediately get hacked and then virus'd
I call it the CoD disease. Early call of duty, and I guess maybe still, trained players to just run in after death. For multiple reasons I am stuck bronze. More due to age and play time, but I can easily call a match with in the first 2 fights. You see the picks and sure enough like a trail of ants they run in as soon as they spawn. Doesn't matter the timing of the other hero deaths. Spawn and run in. The role doesn't effect it either. Between the ML7 wanna be Ana's to the reddit Moira's wayyyy too many front line "support" types. To the tank that seem to think they can tank the world . DPS is caught up everywhere in the middle for reasons.
Real about sombra
@@swifttitan8126 100% and even when i ping sombra or try to tell my teamates to group up they dont (could just be a low elo thing tho)
If I could delete one hero from the game, it would be Sombra hands down. Because nobody can make me rage as much as she does. She just robs all of your abilities and there is nothing you can do about it. Cassidy's nade is annoying but at least you know where he is coming from. Widow can one shot you across the map, but at least you can hide behind a wall. Mercy can resurrect, but you can easily deny that by killing her or pushing her out of range.
I was watching a podcast with two pokemon youtubers and the balancing thing kind of relates. They were talking about how there's always some completely BS cheese strat that people drag their feet and wait years to ban just because they don't want to step on anyone's toes. They think if someone can't use whatever they want to win, they'll just quit because the game is awful for them, ignoring all the tournaments that are ruined in the meantime because of the awful stuff, and it usually ends up getting banned anyways.
Banned by Blizzard themselves? Or by the community?
@@jax345- in the smogon community they said they would usually end up banning the things everyone complains about after a very drawn out and pointless process. The OW equivalent could be the devs either reworking characters or, more likely, just making them never hard meta especially at high ranks
There are important things to distinguish though.
Namely that Pokemon has multiple rulesets, and that the "official" are VGCs which has its own set of regulations
Pokemon in Smogon get banned 2 ways, and pushed 3.
Quickban, Tested, or Usage Rise.
Quickban is when something is clearly and obviously a problem no test is required.
Usage Rise is when something is incredibly prevelant within a given metagame and gets pushed upward into the next tier. Which is why tiers like UUBL exist. The Mon is UU but banned due to its power level within UU. Perfectly usable in higher tiers though.
And then theres suspecting. Which means that a ladder with the problem "absent" will be set up. And people can play in that respective metagame for duration of the testing
And people who reach a pre-requisite score within that metagame can vote on the change. (To my understanding)
Now after explaining the system, the reason its so rigorous. Likely has a lot to do with the irregularity that things can be unbanned and preserving a sense of authenticity.
A lot of the bans are done to create an enviornment that is genuinely engaging and allows the meta to develop, but the way "people" like for bans to work is
"Remove what i dont like" a Modern pokemon doesnt have Hidden Power anymore, and to my understanding its a common mentality that Hidden Power was unhealthy for the meta. However the metas that exist within the context of Hidden Power existing are entirely unique and interesting metagames in their own right.
To make a connection back to overwatch, think of GOATS and how dominate it was not just as a comp but as a concept.
There wasnt just a single iteration of GOATS that dominated, the way to create and play the comp developed and changed as time passed and nerfs happened.
The GOATS metagame was problematic certainly, but on some level GOATS was a comp that eliminated as much bullshit from the game as possible. It arrived as its own solution to other frustrations.
Instead of trying to deny a found solution wouldnt it be preferable to open up more solutions so to speak?
You cant fix a meta or balance a meta by taking things out of it, even when a meta has shifts usually when a game has had its time to be learned you dont get meta shaking changes.
Youll at best get small rumblings or value out of previously less considered options.
Imo people look to bans as a cure all for issues, but in reality they just want a dynamic game that can fluctuate heavily. But the opposite is also true lack of stability and time to play things out also wears on players.
Its a cycle
"Delete Lifeweaver" 😂 I'm just imagining him vanishing into thin air like Avengers End Game. All his mains crying and reaching out for him like "noo, not Lifeweaver!"
They can dissappear into thin air with him too.
RAKATTACK WOULD DIE
Blows my mind that LW mains exist
He's just so boring
All four of them lmao
I think Mei would've been up there too if she had been in the meta more.
word. CC satan
I just commented about how she’s my ultimate hate 😂
I'm a Diamond tank player and i'm Jq main, i didn't participate to the survey, but this are my most hated heros for each role:
Most hated tanks to play against:
1) Roadhog
2) Mauga
3) Orisa
4) Zarya
5) Rein
Most hated DPS to play against:
1) Sombra
2) Cassidy
3) Mei
4) Widow
5) Pharah
Most hated suppoerts to play against:
1) Kiriko
2) Ana
3) Zen
4) Lifeweaver
5) Mercy
My top 5 most hated heros in the game are:
1) Sombra
2) Kiriko
3) Ana
4) Roadhog
5) Cassidy
Talking about kiriko for a bit, I don't really hate suzu, at least in concept, i REALLY REALLY HATE the execution, because you have to factor in also swift step that is a second autoclence if kiriko didn't have swift step to clence her self, she would use suzu selfishly more often makeing the ability more bareble, also i don't like how easy is to apply the effects of op and uncounterable abilities like suzu, lamp and lifegrip, because it's not good design negate an entire ultimate with the use of a single CD that is not even skilfull
HOW can rein be in there?
@@racmanov they are a queen main nuff said. Think only tank who's fun to play against rein is other reins and ones who counter him
I like playing JQ against Rein because you have to balance getting close enough to convince the Rein to shield drop/land the axe while not staying in swing range. Creates some fun gameplay.
Don't know why Cass is so hated on your list, just land knife, wait for roll, yank and spank. I like fighting characters like Cass way more than trying to deal with something like a Tracer.
@@racmanov Because has i said i play mostly JQ and Rein wall all my abilities, just shield alone negate almost al my abilities and so if i can't land my abilities i don't get healing, also I almost never can fight him because my effective range is similar to his but he has a lot more damage than me and a lot more health and armor. So against him I struggle to make space, also if i get aggressive and go for the backline he can alaways turn back and charge me and if he pin me I die 90% of the time or if he miss it doesn't really matter because now he is in his effective range and can beat me to death. Also JQ doesn't have anything to counter shatter, and shatter and charge can cancel queen ult easily because during the cast time she stand still and it's really easy to land cc on her. Sometimes I'm surprise how people don't realize how mutch free value Rein get just from existing. Obviusly you can play around Rein and make it work, but that is boring and mean that i have to make twice the effort to win if i don't want to swap to a boring counter hero like Orisa, but at that point I already stopped having fun
I'm glad he covered the bias of the survey. For instance, my biggest annoyances to play against in DPS are Tracer and Hanzo for sure. I'm a Sombra (and support main) but yeah, Sombra has to be one of the worst to play against because she feels like she can do stuff. I suppose Bastion too, but that's more of hating how my team reacts to him, I personally like fighting Bastion.
This is probably because I’m in gold but I can’t stand playing with or against Mercy. Seems like every time I play with her she’s a detriment to the team comp and whenever I’m against her she’s ressing every time the team gets a pick.
No, you're right. Mercy is an annoying moth whose whole playstyle revolves around flying around while holding left click and getting cheap revives. Worst part is she's not even a good support
Why kiri hittin the Eminem pose in the thumbnail
😂😂😂
Lowkey hard ngl
I think it comes down to "shutdown" or "value denying" heroes.
You make a big play and Kiriko presses a button and just deletes it.
You spend a lot of resources to get a kill and just at the last second, Lifeweaver pulls the target.
Sombra literally shuts down your heroe
Widow can delete you without you even knowing you were in danger.
If Dva was there, i'm sure she would pop-up as hated by DPS in higher ranks.
baptiste dosnt get enough hate, his self sustain, dmg output, lack of risk playing him, HUGE heal potential, powerful ultimate. LAMP. and his jump not having a cooldown makes him so annoying to play against.
He can't survive against dive especially 2 people dive unlike kiriko
@@sagnikdeb9589 both kiriko and baptiste are the best supports, and have been for too long, they both need nerfs to even out the playing field, especially when both of them can easily 1 v 1 almost the entire dps roster.
I'm incredibly conflicted with Lifeweaver. He's been my main since release even though hes sucked SO BAD.
I think the hate comes from how heavily LW relies on game sense. A skill that isn't tangible like aim and plagues low ranks. So those worse LW's have shitty grips and utility usage that actively screw over their team. But in high ranks I think people hate him for being a healbot afk in the back character.
As someone who plays a lot of LW, if you have good game sense and pull people out of losing duels or when theyre vulnerable with no cds. LW is enjoyed by your team, but its such a difficult task that most LWs just end up trolling their team cause they saw someone with "Critical" on them. I love this guy and his design, but the fact that bad LWs actively can get you killed really make him feel awful to play with.
They gotta add the ability to cancel lifegrip, both for the LW and the ally being pulled. I think this would alleviate a lot of the pain points teammates would have with LW
I genuinely don’t find Kiri too annoying. Suzu sucks when it happens, but it doesn’t screw me too often the way that Life Grip, Immo Field, and rez do
*sad rein noises*
@@ommn0n let me guess... canceled pins and shatters?
Unkillable, has a 1 button solution to 80% of damaging ults in the game, and has a small hitbox. How is this not annoying.
@@S0UPIE because it's not consistent and u can force it pretty easily
what do you play
When filling out the poll I honestly struggled with who my 2nd was on both tank and dps lol. I put down ball cuz he is vaguely annoying and sombra cuz she is also vaguely annoying but I don't really hate playing into either; I know those matchups and can win those consistently. I just put a 2nd for the sake of the poll but the drop-off in hatred from Hog to Ball and Widow to sombra is massive (hog and widow have same issue for me - I hate getting one shot)
another facet of this conversation may be the fact that certain people dislike certain characters because of bad matchups for their mains. for example i main doom, and although i already hate sombra for a multitude of reasons, i hate her even MORE because of just how easy it is for one to shut me down. the same could go for genji/moira. i’m also surprised at the lack of phar/mercy. a lot of people i talk to, specifically people on console or in lower ranks, tend to really hate pharah and mercy.
that’s crazy that tanks don’t hate junkrat, on dps I don’t even notice his trap but as tank I have to constantly watch for it. Shit gives me a headache
As a tank you can *kinda* get on junkrat. Pharah/Echo are way worse to deal with
@@tiggle5485 I’m not saying he’s good I’m saying he gives me a headache
Random junkrat traps are the worst as a doomfist or ball, but at least I know I could haaev been more carefull to work around him, sombra leaves you out in the open with almost the same possible death combo without anyway to counter that rather than search for her and killing her.
depends on what tank you play cause theyre not that bad on rein or sigma but on doom or ball its just so annoying
the reason people hate junk is the spam and dying to it randomly, tanks dont have this problem
As someone who recently got back into the game (Diamond Tracer - starting again at Gold) I can tell you at lower ranks people HATE playing vs Sombrah, that poll isn't skewed for playing with her. Sombrah is absurdly easy to get value out of when you're playing against a team with poor positioning (e.g., every metal rank team). Zens, Ashe, Widow, lifeweaver, ana etc, just get torn to pieces by her at low ranks. The issue is that she gets so much value for so little effort, that is what is irritating to me as a noob player. I can play Sombrah and get kills mindlessly in low rank because awareness and positioning is all over the place, so getting picks is just too easy.
Perfect video length while doing cardio on the bike at the gym 💪🏼 Thanks Spilo have a good Wednesday evening man!!
Really interesting analysis! 9:40 - If it were possible, I'd love to run some significance testing (t-test or maybe ANOVA) on these results to see whether, statistically speaking, the rank category differences are due to chance or not.
As a stats nerd myself I would love to do this for fun lol Spilo probably wouldn't make another video about it tho.
True ahaha - maybe he'd still find the statistical interpretation worth looking into in the future!
I'd say in general, the "hatred" formula is like (frustration I notice on enemy team) / ((how outspoken their mains are) * (value I notice on my team)). It has no relation to how strong the heroes actually are, but like you say, high pick rates can make those feelings more intense. But if they have a really dedicated, outspoken following in the people that play them, that can totally offset how annoying they are to everyone else, which I think we see with Doomfist.
Kiriko likes to be independent and you know she can TP, so every time you die you think "wtf, why is kiriko not with me, is she dpsing? why didn't kiriko just tp to me to save me?". Then on the enemy team its all, damn this kiriko tping to my target and suzuing them all the time. Hated both ways, regardless of rank. And she has a high pick rate, but you don't really see a strong unity in Kiriko mains, they don't defend her much online to offset the hate. In fact, I see "Kiriko mains" begging for devastating nerfs on reddit for some reason...
Sombra is invisible. Even if she's putting in work, as a teammate you just see her out of the fight constantly and assume she isn't doing much (especially pre-rework). Meanwhile obviously as an enemy, you feel like Sombra will hack and assassinate you easily and its really hard to play around. Hated both ways, especially in low ranks where players can't "play around" anything and supports have no awareness to heal through a Sombra attack. Similarly, there are lots of Sombras now, but they don't bother defending her to offset the hate online, they just accept she's hated.
Widowmaker sits way in the back. She either one shots a lot or feels like she's doing nothing as a teammate. Even if she puts in work, as a teammate you don't see it unless you pay close attention to the kill feed. As an enemy, you feel like you can't even play the game bc you're terrified of the one shot. Hated both ways.
Roadhog doesn't "tank" all that well and generally just plays like a very needy dps - as a teammate it often feels like you don't really have a tank. As an enemy, his design baits you into thinking he can die then just never dying. And similar to Widow there is a feeling of terror that you can't in anywhere in his LoS or he'll hook you for a one shot. Sucks both with and against. Mauga is very similar but with that annoying burn effect instead of a one shot.
Tbh, I think the Sombra rework has actually made her more accepted than she used to be. Bc now she has more direct, noticeable value than before. It feels a lot better having her on your team, which that alone I think helped her image. She's still not liked, but its not quite as bad. Its arguably how much of that hate is simply the "inherited hate" from her previous design too, similar to how people hate on Brig despite he design being extremely fair now.
Took my AP Statistics test yesterday and this is giving me flashbacks cause DAMN this video is good and very well put together
And about Lifeweaver, playing with him is extremely fun, but the biggest problem is that he is a character that you must know how to use and that is a problem for anyone who tries him. Many people don't know when to pull, when to charge the heal or when to spam instead of charging. I think that's why they hate him. For me, mechanically, he is a complete support. he has countless skills to save, to maintain the team's livelihood and he is MUCH better than Illari. illari for me is a crap character. It's a support without a single appropriate saving skill... for it to have a legal support it depends a lot on the goodwill of the team and for low rank it doesn't work... It's very easy to break the pylon, the pylon takes a long time to arm to save someone, your allies almost don't go to the Pylon's location (even if you ping him where he is or change the location to a point where they have better access). . and honestly, the character is just not among the most hated because of the people who like to deal damage with support
As a tank player and sometimes flex, when I play the game I want to make a play or capitalize on a mistake. When an ability can negate all of that without an ult trade, it can be incredibly frustrating. Tank busting is a no brainer though. I don’t mind counter swaps to deny me value, but I think this video cemented the idea that I don’t hate counter swapping, I hate tank busting (they are different).
Sort of?
I mean regardless it's still gonna be a pain if someone counter swaps to someone infinitely better vs your character but if they also happen to be a tank buster on top of that the value they get is gonna feel even worse because it doubles down on focusing you and it's what's effective vs your character
Tank busters can be annoying but if you counter swap them too they can only tank bust with their conditions being met, mauga if he's just allowed to freely shoot tank, hog if he can land hooks on tank consistently, and orisa is just a bully style character in general so she'll always be a pain to anyone since she has all the tools necessary to turn a fight in her favor
Heroes I hate going against:
Sombre: if I get hacked one more time 😠
Echo/Pharah: I hater having to look up and shoot or switching characters to hit them in the air.
Characters with one-hit combos: If I get hooked one more time 😠
Take a shot every time spilo says “high rank bias”
When kiri hits a Suzu it’s the worst feeling in the game, up there with hack, trap, hook, and hinder
S4 Tank (thank you queuing all roles)
B3 Support (My main role)
Characters I hate seeing one the enemy team the most.
Tank: Reinhart, Ball, Winton
Dps: Sombra, Tracer, Pharah, Echo
Support: Ana (while on tank)
I'm one of the gm support players that voted that I hated zen. I think he just does too much dmg and in high rank is usually protected well enough a solo dive won't kill him. With discord and dps passive it's impassive to heal someone getting focused n they die instantly. I also hate dueling tracers with harmony orbs
the most hated dps (sombra) and the most hated supports (kiriko, lw) have key mechanics around undoing your success, not being a fair fight, but just a an immediate vulnerability via teleport, suzu, life grip, or overall not being a fair fight with permanent invisibility, instantly teleporting (vs running away) or taking pedal to where you can't finish fights with quite a few heroes. They are anti-fun.
Sombra as a character is designed to be annoying and hateable so Im not really expected with the poll. If anything you can say that Sombra is one of the best characters in regards to filling out her character fantasy.
seriously, if sombra isn't the most hated character, the devs failed at her character design. another added element is if you're doing well on sombra, you can tilt the enemy team into oblivion. the psychological aspect is why i enjoy playing sombra. she just gets in your head, always threatening a flank on the backline depending on the enemy team comp.
what makes her pretty strong though is her flexibility. she can chill in the off-angle tickling people just to get that healing debuff going. or she can just flank from the high ground or do some hit-and-run. she's mad fun these days thanks to the changes they made to allow for more player expression. and even if you're dog for a few team fights, building toward emp means you can turn around any situation.
admittedly my sombra isn't the best since i tend to get too greedy. i gotta reign it in a bit, but when i'm in the zone, it's a fun experience.
One thing I think is an interesting thought I had: In plat I hate playing against Ball the most because my team doesn't understand how to just click the small people instead of the zdps Ball, which impacts me by inflicting my whole team with brainrot. Something like Mauga/Hog I dislike playing against because of their kill/save potential, or their direct/potential impact on ME.
Doesn't really change the answers, but it's interesting that heroes are likely Hated for different reasons while still ending up as someone's most hated.
Another thing about Junkrat being hated in high elo, speaking as high in League playing with lower ranked friends: I hate randomness, and unpredictability. If I see Cassidy/Widow ping, I know where they're going to come from, I likely even know what wall they'd hide behind if they get shot at. I absolutely no idea what direction a Iron/Bronze/Silver player in League is going to dodge, and I have absolutely no clue where Junkrat's ball is going to bounce after I dodge it the first time and it leaves my vision, both are equally annoying for me.
Sombra is easy to deal with once you understand her tbh, I have way more issues with other heroes in higher ranks
I want to add to the hog stats for lower ranks, I think it’s also due to the fact that lower ranked support players have a harder time pumping heals into hog which is necessary for him to be viable, also the fact that they don’t utilize Suzy as well as higher ranked players make it so hog is much easier to kill compared to mauga and orisa
as someone who doesnt hate hog that much, to me, the only aspect that makes me hate a character is having good results going 100% braindead with it. Mauga and Orisa are peak braindead gameplay, while hog needs more awareness, but has an annoying ass cheese factor
That’s wild you think hog needs awareness 😂 He’s the only hero that can braindead walk into a whole team, hook, 1 shot someone and walk out while healing through 10000 damage.. bring a kiri into the equation and it’s even worse
when the difference between a gold and a master playing the same character is less than 20%, the character is dumb and I hate it (fuck Mauga lol)
@@Lordin_ im sorry but a gold mauga and masters mauga are not the same and that’s naive of you to say that cause if a gold mauga played at a masters level, they would be masters… the diff between the two, more than likely, is CD management and ult usage which both require game sense. hog is the most braindead tank cause it’s walk in, hook/one shot and walk out while taking an absurd amount of damage that no other tank could take. there is literally no thought into that at all lol
@@vape42069bro is trying to argue that mauga needs skill 💀💀💀
@@vape42069 hog needs to hit hook and has low mobility, so when he gets out of position to hit his hook and misses the skill check, he mostly just dies. thats just very inconsistend value when compared to orisa or mauga value for the neglectable skill they need
Sombra is the only hero im ever upset to see in my games.
My problem with LW specifically is that his grip has no interactivity. You could literally elim the LW during the pull and it still works. There's no way to cancel it. If you get on to a LW (as a tank main.) they can be impossible to kill especially as like a winston. All they do is just spam healing in a general direction in the back while on their platform which isn't interactive as an enemy player either. If they are jumped on they just use their dash which heals them more so they can run and it is incredibly obnoxious. If his abilities had more interactivity I likely would not feel this way, but he just isn't fun to play against.
I would have liked to see the results with all of the heros.
- I think pharrah would be higher picked then junkrat in low ranks
- Diva and rein could be picked in low ranks with the shield / matrix.
- Tanks would possibly have hated Ana the most if that was an option
So I'm a QP warrior, placed silver last time I played comp in the start of S9.
I answered as a flex player because that's what I do most but the great majority of my hours have been spent as a support on either Mercy or Kiri.
The reason I think Widow and Sombra (my personal picks too) were high even in low ranks is the cheese aspect vs the skill issue aspect. Sombra feels like cheesing, it's hard to get my teammates to peel, even if I can get the Sombra away from me my teammates aren't generally going to follow up on her even if I ping her as she translocates. That's frustrating because I have to focus solely on the Sombra for a sec and that might lead to my tank or DPS dying and then they blame me.
Widow is kind of the opposite. It's pretty rare but happens frequently enough that you remember it, Widows in QP or lower ranks have a much lower skill floor because everyone's movement and cover usage is really bad. When an average Widow comes into a low metal ranks lobby they can just annihilate my teammates because they don't usually play against her and are therefore not equipped to deal with her. On Kiri, even if I duel her, she might not notice lol. So she keeps on shooting at my walking in plain view Reaper while I try to aim at her from cover and far away so I take a while to get her. That's also attention I have to give her and sometimes can't afford, which is something I personally struggle with a lot.
I also put Weaver and Kiri. I like playing Kiri but it's frustrating playing DPS against her or even dueling her as a Kiri myself. She can just leave a duel, she can three shot easily but realistically one shotting a chunked down target isn't that uncommon. Suzu is frustrating as a DPS and her hitbox is hard to hit as a worse than average aimer lol.
Weaver is frustrating in many ways. It's annoying to almost confirm an elim but seeing it get gripped away. Some of the reason I chose him was also bias from past seasons (pre S9) where his sustain was just way too high. Playing against a LW was so frustrating because he was able to keep his team up through thick and thin and when a person got low enough to kill, he'd just grip them away. Similarly to Kiri, too, he's tough to duel. He has more Hp than other squishies and can get away on platform and use dash. Not talked about enough either, is how much damage thorns can do. Lobbing the first second or so of his thorns down a choke at head level leads to an hecatomb in lower ranks because no one expects that (although that's rarer and I discovered it while playing LW myself and was really satisfied at first lol).
Hog is awful to play against as a noob because he punishes positioning mistakes quickly and requires my support play to throw utility into a teammate that was fine a second ago (so that's me wasting suzu on my Soldier while enemy Ana is getting ready to nade my low hp tank).
I can't remember which other tank I picked. It might have been Doom from playing against him on tank (D.va usually), I have trouble peeling for my backline cuz I can't DM punch or slam and getting him away is a very temporary solution since he's a hyper mobile character. I will say, though, I'm much less bothered by Doom because he can get punished easier in lower ranks and that makes it more palatable. If Ball was played more I would have a bigger issue with him.
I didn't pick Mauga because most Maugas I play against just run it down main and get punished swiftly. If I'm on support I'll often focus on bursting him down because chances are his CD usage isn't good and he's already vulnerable, which is usually the case. So playing against Mauga hasn't been too much of an issue for me. On tank, I play D.va or Ram so I'll usually swap D.va and kind of ignore him/DM his guns. I'll play it by getting on high ground and diving an isolated squishy and getting back with boosters. Any cut to a low rank Mauga's sustain is quickly lethal for him so I've found success with that.
I don't find Mercy to be as frustrating because I have Mercy main brain worms. Also I know when an enemy Mercy wants to Rez so I'll be ready and ping a bunch. Most Mercys I've played against severely under utilise dmg boost so it also makes them inherently less frustrating. It can be a little annoying to kill her and Mercy is usually the last to die/reset and getting the elim is tough because of hyper mobility. I've found success playing Ashe or Cass against Mercys though, because I know where they are and where they want to go so I'm usually looking in the right place to begin with and I usually kill her by shooting and pinging.
Idk what my QP MMR is. On my alt I usually play with gold-plat-diamond but my main was placed Silver in S9. I'm comp anxious but intend on playing again, I just gotta psych myself up
A better way to show the most hated “role x” distribution between roles is to add up the values of the 3 bars for each character and show every bar as a proportion of that number, so that it is obvious the difference in how hated that character is amongst roles. For example the Zenyata difference doesn’t look very big between roles but that is partially because the total values are low and if it was shown as a proportion the differences would be quite noticeable
As a support, the biggest reason I hate Zen is because he’s really good at getting back line picks before dive/brawl compositions can get close enough to fight within their ideal ranges. That means his poke damage is really significant, and often team positions in early ranks make it easy to get caught out and have to duel him from long range.
I think adding all heroes would have been much better than picking who spilo believes is annoying. Torb and bastion can be unfun to play against but i don't believe they are as unfun to play against as say tracer, mei or old pharmercy. And the poll kinda shows that they really aren't in the same convo as the other 3
Weaver being hated doesn't surprise me at all. On top of the thing of playing against him, being wrongly pulled by a teammate weaver is super annoying. Sometimes they will pull you just fine, but a lot of times they just pull you to be their personal bodyguard or because they didn't like your engage. A lot of times, when an annoying pull happens, I just let myself die out of spite.
8:49 It's not just about those tanks being tankbusters, all of these tanks have really good potential survivability either via their HP or via their escape-ability, and most importantly, Ball, Hog and Doom are displacement tanks, which can forcefully displace and stun other players, while those on the receiving end can pretty much never do anything to counteract.
Which is also why I find it baffling that Doomfist/Ball players complain about people insta picking Sombra into them, when it's clear as day that literally nobody likes to play against a character who can punch you around the map at will, while also having 3x your hp, while also having multiple escape tools.
I think it should be obvious that people just hate when something forcefully takes control of their character away from them. It should be extremely obvious based on how many people hated Brig having a stun alone.
Suzu makes all of the effort I put into getting a kill feel useless
My least favorites would be:
Doomfist, Wrecking Ball
Sombra, Tracer, Sojourn
Zen, Kiri? Idk, none of the supports are that annoying.
Sombra's TTK for a fast stealth hero is astonishing. Recently in a match, I started a Moira fade the same frame Sombra uncloaked, and my full-health teammate was gone before the fade ended.
I am SHOCKED that moira wasn't in the top 3 worst heroes to play against. Maybe because I'm a genji main but still, she feels like she has no downsides whatsoever and it the easiest healer to play by far
Even Lifeweaver players hate playing AS him sometimes, like when half our kit doesn't function the way it's supposed to. ie. Petal Platform not going up at random, Lifegrip's clunky interaction with collision.
I like playing sombra... i actually preferred old tp but the issue is primarily EMP hack.
1s hack is possible to cancel when you're aware it's coming and super survivable... but when emp goes off it feels like an eternity where you're just helpless and can't make any creative plays.
I'd rather it do Anything else: I'd prefer a MASS sleep or a huge damage taken boost etc, rather than just sitting there on winston and watching your team die and your own health dissapear while you hold down your E for 3 full seconds.
From a main tank perspective
Tank: Mauga, Orisa
Both unkillable
Dps: Sombra, Tracer
If they diff your team you lose
Supports: Ana, Kiriko
As a tank main, smart ana and kiriko players are untouchable and counter everything you do
I dont think that people hating playing with sombra is whats skewing the results in low rank. recency bias might be contributing, but i really dont think its surprising that people hate being hacked or nuked from invis. Not to mention that hero is the first thing people swap to when any nontank hero on the other team is having fun
If I'd been allowed to pick what I wanted:
Tank: Roadhog and Doomfist
No explanation needed
Damage: Genji and Tracer
Genji takes coordination to counter and Tracer is always fucking meta
Support: Mercy and Ana
Mercy just carries fights by existing and erasing mistakes with res, and nobody shoots her. Ana carries games by just existing and spamming nade and pumping out healing, and you either swap to Kiriko or your own Ana or just lose.
Imagine you pull up to the function on colloseo and you see Mauga, sombra, junkrat, Moira life weaver on the other end of the tunnel
Tank buster is a bit of a misnomer, what they really are high constant damage typically at close to mid range. And even the description is possibly wrong as that puts a Junk/Hanzo in the same category if you can land your shots.
I think a clear issue with all of these hated heroes in the lack of interaction with them and lack of counter play and engaging/rewarding counterplay on most heroes. There is also a severe lack of skill expression in a lot of what these heroes do like pressing E on the ground to nullify every ult in the game, teleporting instantly through walls, being perma invis, sitting 50m away from a fight up int he skybox and healbotting with the occational pressing E to pull someone out of the biggest mistake of their life, one shotting people by hooking their feet.
There is no real counter play to a hero like kiriko, theres a heavy lack of risk vs reward and you cannot get a fair interaction with her, you're winning a 1v1 vs an enemy player? no ur not cause kiriko was just summoned through half the map to make sure thats not the case. you're winning a 1v1 vs her (already unlikely) she goes through 5 walls, shes in your backline and out of position? no she isnt cause now shes in their backline and will do the same disappearing act 7 seconds later again, you dive her cause she managed to tp into a bad position, you get her low hp and now she in invincible and gained half her hp back while still shooting at you, she managed to miss all her truck sized shots and she disappears again like she was never even there, you shattered her entire team? no you didnt, you hit a big anti? no you didnt, finally managed to hit your pulsebomb on any of the 5 heroes? cool now u used a hard to hit ult to force out a cooldown. All you can do vs kiriko is forcing her cooldowns and that is NOT counterplay. Most characters cant even shoot at lifeweaver because hes on the other side of the map, their tank ints, you and your team used half their teams cooldowns on it and he just disappears and flies while invincible across half the map. you can shoot 10 clips into the hog but if you dont have cc hes still full hp and you just landed yourself a golden ticket back to spawn after you got 1 shot by a tank thats 20 meters away. sombra is invisible for 80% of the game and the other 20% is spent spawn camping your zen, appearing out of thin air to 1 shot you and playing houdini by disappearing right infront of your eyes. You peak the wrong corner and you just got 1 shot by the widowmaker thats 50m away, and even if she didnt kill you, that entire sightline she has is now a minefield where theres a 50% chance that you get your head blown off. and the fact that they seem to keep designing character like this.
I hope no one read to the end on this one as half of it is just me venting my pure hatred of kiriko and everything she does.
Looooved this stat breakdown. I was surprised people hate Mauga more than Orisa. I am a simple man, and I enjoy simple things. Like playing Mauga (Silver/Gold). I enjoy shooting things, and Mauga lets you shoot all the things at all ranges.
Personally, I think Mauga-haters still have a bias from when he was overpowered at launch. Also, Mauga can fight back at any range, and people hate tanks that can fight back and kill them at multiple ranges. People don't hate range limited tanks. I like that Spilo is pushing for skill expression in abilities... but skill expression alone doesn't mean a character is fun to play against. People seem to like exploitable weaknesses (like range)... and I'm unsure if "ability on cooldown" is enough of an "exploitable weakness" to sway people's opinion, and make a character fun to play against... if that makes sense.
Last feedback: instead of poll of two hated tanks, do a 1-5 scale of "hate to play against" for each tank. I'm betting any tanks with clear exploitable weaknesses are liked more than well-around tanks like Mauga, Hog and Orisa.
I think the issue with Sombra really is that she just cheats the system and natural value exchange entirely, with perma invis and hack from invis.
Especially in lower ranks this holds even more value, because natural value exchange is the only thing that speaks to people who don't have as strong game sense, so when there's a permanently invisible cunt of a hacker running around the map, they have that constant feel of backstabbing risk that they seemingly can't do much about either. The perceived counterplay is borderline non-existent, regardless of whether the Sombra is actually effective or not.
In higher ranks this gets mitigated somewhat by the fact that Sombra is more punishable once she commits to getting value, and you can be more reliant on the fact that your team knows how to deal with the Sombra and the tempo is so high that things are moving around the map constantly so you're always in a heightened sense of alertness regardless of whether there's a Sombra nearby or not.
But the total break of the value exchange system related to positioning and sight lines and resources-for-space, is the core reason why so many people hate Sombra, especially in lower ranks where one character that cheats the system has much more impact on people's perception of the gameplay they're interacting with.
And keep in mind, this is the same for Kiriko. She cheats the value exchange system. She can tp through walls and appear out of nowhere to skew a fight a player thought they were winning, she's near impossible to chase down and duel, she cleanses so many abilities retroactively, and she has random headshot rng hits that are especially effective towards lower rank players that have a higher tendency to just stroll down main and put themselves in spammable positions without even realizing it.
I also think the notion of people parroting content creators, is almost irrelevant. People at the end of the day have far greater psychological reaction to what they actually encounter in the game, than what they hear online, when it comes to actual gameplay elements that are tangible and directly impacts them -vs softer concepts like opinion on format and meta and stuff.
At the core, I think people just really hate playing against characters that don't appear to follow a fair value exchange system in the gameplay loop.
Sombra permanently invisible can avoid all sight lines and cheat positioning and timing.
Kiri can teleport and cleanse retroactively and hit big rng damage shots through infinite range spam.
LW can retroactively pull people out who committed genuine mistakes, or revoke value that you achieved through a skill exchange vs the LW's ally -and he's also just a healbot like Mercy except he just sits like a turret instead of having active movement. It doesn't feel like fair value exchange to fight them.
Same with Mauga and Hog, it feels like whenever they actually get value, it's through unfair propped up stats and brainless mitigation.
Widow also cheats the system by simply taking you out from Narnia whenever she lands her shots, so she either comes off as obsolete, or a server admin, with very little in between.
I don't really mind kiriko, yeah, suzu, yeah, tp, the only thing why I dislike the character is how much value she can get just by spamming shots. That on top of everything else I can't take
I was surprised Genji didn't make the list of most hated dps. Every Overwatch group I go to or stream I watch, the supports and a good bunch of people complain that Genji is ridiculous or that he needs to be nerfed, that he's OP, etc...
even if I understand mercy isnt very good i put her on my hate list just cause her design is fundamentally flawed and my opinion wont change until she gets a good rework or something
Thank you very, very much for prefacing with community bias. This is why I watch you consistently.
i mostly play tank + ball so its no shock that i choose sombra but im looking at as objectively as i can. she is literally designed to stop you enjoying/playing the game. shes obnoxious and a low skill hard counter to a high skill floor hero being ball who by the way spent most the game in bottom tiers . every single game i have to play against one lol and often i can win/out play even still as ball but its soooooo boring. just her PRESENCE means i cant be the initial space creator for the team anymore, i have to play angles and have her in the back of my mind all the time. mean while she just chillls in invis and waits patiently to punish me from whatever angle she chooses. i think the rework helped in making her at least punishable but i still just think the kit and playstyle is flawed from the beginning. her lack of being in the fight makes her often detrimental to her own teams success (been fixed abit with the changes) and her existence makes the other teams experience more of a chore. horrible character design imo literally the definition of fun police
I never ended up doing the poll because most of the choices didn’t annoy me. Still cool to see how people voted.
Im thinking that part of the tank roster being the way that it is is how easy it is to stop them from playing the game. If the enemy team has a good doomfist, its very easy to swap sombra and/or cass and instantly shut down his entire character whereas a character like roadhog is trickier to deal with. I think you are right about ball though i think its mostly due to people not liking playing with him.
Also i think large part of it is the gap in skill expression at high and low end. A good doomfist is really good but a bad doomfist ints and provides literally zero value, so people dont mind as much since he is mechanically challenging so not everyone is playing him at the highest level. Whereas a good mauga is really good and a bad mauga is just good because he gets value from just holding both guns on the tank. For doomfist to be annoying he needs positioning and game sense; he cant just 1v1 the tank in the middle of the fight, where as any jimmy can pick up mauga, charge in and sit on the tank until someone else dies and his team wins the fight.
A lot of the hate for Kiriko comes from her suzu if we are being honest. As someone who plays her (too much for my liking), it almost feels illegal to suzu someone that was 1hp then see their health go up to damn near full, when in no world they deserved to live. I think the devs need to look into ways to nerf suzu while still keeping her viable.
Changing Suzu may have implications because it's one of the few abilities that counter Sombra. Fending off Sombra's hacks has been a challenge, and reworking Suzu could be tricky with Sombra in her current state.
It would probably make the overall community way happier to rework Sombra without invisibility before touching Suzu imho
@@HamburgerWasteland I’m not trying to discount you but I highly doubt Sombra is why Suzu is overturned. Abilities and effects like Ana nade and JQ ult make Suzu a must. Meanwhile Sombra can be outhealed and countered by supports like Moira and Brig. I definitely feel like Suzu not canceling stuns was an amazing direction and they should look into potentially removing the immortality from Suzu.
@PoolGyall5441: Oh, I 100% agree with that. There are a lot of good heroes like Moira and Brig that can counter Sombra effectively. That said, Sombra's hack is quite oppressive, and Suzu is technically the only ability in the game that can directly counter her hack. Considering how annoying Sombra's hack can be, I think it's important to have at least one ability that can disable it.
My little brother and my girlfriend started playing OW recently so I may have interesting insights and data abt what they hate (I swear I didnt force them to, she was curious and he said he would diff me eventually)
So, the little guy said he hated moira as a concept. I told him it could be good to get used to the basics of the game without needing to focus on aim. He said no, pointed to lucio bc we're brasilian and kiri bc hes a weeb and asked how skillful they were. This shows that there are players who may be getting absolutely rolled and are fully overhelmed by the game, but still want to avoid things they see as unskillful (even tho I tried to lie abt how skillful moira is) he is a kiri main as of right now, with interest in playing lucio as a secondary pick
He hates roadhog, it makes him miserable bc he cannot position well or save someone being hooked bc it happens too quickly and he has no muscle memory (this is his first PC game ever)
He hasnt expressed other hatred when playing with me that I remember (I am plat btw, just so yall know what kind of skill the game had to balance for)
As for the silly pretty girl with a cute smile, she has a bit of shooter experience, but she doesnt really like shooters bc she is bad at them (this is also bc of equipment in my analisis), she just plays them with friends. She was curious abt OW bc she knows Im addicted and know that theres a bunch of weird powers and shit and its not just shoot the guy with the gun. She is insanely overhelmed by the game, especially bc she only plays with me, but is already a hater. She hates : hog, mauga, junkrat, bastion, tracer, Junker Queen.
She specifically said that she hates stuff that doesnt die as explanation for mauga and hog. For junker queen its bc she was always on her face doing a lot of damage to her and pulling her, but when I made her look closely at her design she apologized and called her mommy
For tracer I think its bc of her aim problem, she asks me to not hold back against her in deathmatch between games, and she has a lot of trouble with the blinks
Junkrat is self explanatory, bastion too bc she forgets to be near cover.
Maybe important info, she has tested moira and liked her but got bored super quick, now she is becomin a phara main it seems, tho she admitted that she likes cass and hanzo too but avoids playing them bc of her aim. She had a moment or two against moira but doesnt seem to hate her like the rest
Last thing bc its funny, the second time we played she wanted to try playing tank. She audibly hated it and intensely fears playing it it seems, but she likes the game a lot as a whole
I definitely chose lw with a clear bias about how much I hate playing WITH lifeweaver (I read the question correctly I just didn’t care). It’s not like it’s not annoying having the purple 1hp target get pulled, purple expires mid pull and they get healed up before becoming vulnerable again so I felt it was still justified. But lifeweaver, I would LOVE to see deleted from the game. I’d buy battle passes JUST for that sort of privilege even if it had no skins included
Should be widowmaker imo, only character that can oneshot anything that is not a tank from a safe distance. It is ridiculous since day 1, she doesn't fit in the ow theme and playstyle since this is not a conventional shooter
As a support main that likes trying to improve on LW, it feels like you're in a 1v9 at times. Team mates get mad at one failed pull MUCH more than rezzing someone and them dying again. Rez compared to pull only provides positive but pull can literally cause ur team mate to throw even if you were trying to save them 😅. He doesnt have the same dmg utility that mercy does so it feels like crap in comparison. I honestly think they should lower the petal hp to like 250 or 300 and give him 2 charges instead on maybe 8 secs. Let ppl experience his utility more and make more plays, maybe rework pull? Maybe team interacting makes it more like a catapult farther away than closer lol
kiriko sombra player here, if you remove the paseout from suzu and give it back the MICRO boop, id be very happy. i dont see the boop ever returning but it was a rare and FUNpart of the kit. ive never seen a player mad from the microboop knocking off the map, instead they would be impressed, because it was so hard to pull off [and of course the patch they remove it, they introduce illari withy a MEGA boop...
the thing with sombra is her invis is too good, and that makes playing against her insanely frustrating. give it a nonperfect invis, give it some light distortions or something to show where she is to an astute observer. and i'll trade my left nut for the translocator change reverted. new translocator took away SO MANY potential uses of it and and forced ONE single possibility. and that feels awful
The devs seem to struggle with understanding how it feels like to fight against certain things in the game which is how things like one shots, immortality, and other issues still persist. For example, Sombra being able to hack and kill someone in under 5 seconds and then go immediately invisible, or Widow one-shotting you across the map would be something someone should understand is unfair, but these devs don't see that somehow
I totally understand the kiriko resentment. Shes a hero with a tiny hitbox, decent heals, insane utility , insane mobility. She can gimp kill you from across the map and can duel any squishy comfortably .
they should switch hack to being virus itself, that way sombra at least has to aim to hack someone, the same way with some mauga interacctions, cage makes your worthless as a doom and ult shouldn't be an automatic win the fight. finally kiriko is a granade that you don't really have to aim, splash should be much lower or maybe made into a kunai of invicibility and a cleanse granade for your team (that maybe shares cooldowns) the problem is not really abilities being broken but also they being very hard to pull of.
Kiriko and roadhog have to change, basically.
If the devs are interested in changing things like making hanzo unable to charge and climb, or reduce dooms stun duration to “make things less frustrating to play against” they should use data like this to find out what things are actually the most frustrating to play against.
For Kiriko, suzu is the problematic ability most of all I think, the most unique part of it being the intangibility. I think they get rid of that and things will be a lot better. You can heal and cleanse and even make them immune to damage if you want, but please don’t make them uninteractable.
Road hog is my “my team are brain dead” pick. When your dps suck at confirming kills and your supports aren’t supporting you I don’t feel like I can do anything other than pick hog and play him as a further back dps. Hook people out of position, poke, breath and sustain. Road hog is a necessary evil of the game being team based
About: Hog, Sombra, Widow, LW and Kiri
Hog: I hate his survivability (when you do not have Ana). Sometimes Hog can live forever if he plays cover properly. Besides that, I can tolerate hook. Good Hogs are hatable. When the player is bad, I do not care. Key idea: "Immortality"
Sombra: I can tolerate Virus, invisibility, and the translocator... but the hack is one of the most frustrating CDs in the game. The disabling "you cannot play the game" is so dumb. I am not talking about whether that thing is balanced, weak, or op. It is not funny. I do not care if the player is good or bad, being hacked is super annoying, even if you kill Sombra after. Key idea: She denies your fun.
Widow: I used to hate her a lot but I admit requires skill. She is not an easy hero. My problem is that Widow (one shot) does not fit in OW2. Circuit Royal, Habana, Numbani... if they have a good Widow on these maps it is just gg. The one-shot + bad map design is a big problem. Key idea: You cannot interact with her.
LW: If you die on LW you suck. The survivability on LW is so annoying. Good LWs just live forever, they are untouchable. Dash (healing), and petal platform (shield and high ground) are too much. The CD trade (as DPS vs LW) feels unfair. He can correct mistakes so easily. Key idea: You cannot interact with him fairly.
Kiri: The problem is that she can do anything. I do not hate her, she is super fun to play but it is too much. Damage, survivability, and mobility (and one of the best ults in the game). Key idea: Her kit is too much, just nerf one aspect (idea: If she uses tp, then she cannot use suzu... if she uses suzu then tp is not available).
Last one...
DELETE FKN PHARA.
There have been bad metas out there but Mauga was the only meta where me and my friend as well as some other people I know straight up stopped playing the game.
I go out of my way to target sombra whenever she is in my game.
I think you have to take into account the heroes people play. For example I only play genji on dps and moira is my personal most hated support. I’m not high rank but, I watched Necros unranked to GM series and was talking about how he wouldn’t normally duel a moira and he’s a top 500 player possibly the best genji. It doesn’t really seem right that such a low skill character hard counters one of the most mechanically intensive characters.
Hog and Widow, agreed. In a game like OW, I don't think any hero should be able to one-shot, unless it comes from an ult.
Skill issue
very big skill issue
Bro. Hog literally tosses out a giant flapjack pancake that tells the entire team when he's going for a hook.
Nah. Game design issue.
@@BeastMode-bw2ry I'm not the only one here who notices. There's another post here, 76 likes at the moment, and they explain it well; the second hero they mention is Hog. A tank with a one shot? Lol. The hook was fine before, until they recently gave him one shot back.
I do not have Twitter so I did not access the form but I will thoroughly answer here because I think I can provide unique insight. I stopped playing comp in the fall so I’m not fully up to date on stuff but peak GM 1 Tank, GM 2 DPS, GM 1 Support. So I’ve got pretty good game sense and mechanics. I took a long break and now I actually play Quick Play with work friends who have recently gotten into the game. Brand new players, Bronze 5 at best for some but I’m coaching them. In QP I’ll be matched with silver through t500 it’s a mess but my perspective as a high level player but not active comp player is.
As tank Mauga annoys me, I am versatile and can play just about any tank so Hog doesn’t annoy me as much but Mauga’s cardiac overdrive affecting allies is honestly stupid. It’s like of Orisa fortify gave her team fortify. Mauga is boring to play against, he’s just bleh, ttk is unreasonable. I do not like being against Mei or Sombra, even if I’m never killed by them they’re just irritating. And I don’t like being against zen. Discord is stupid no skill ability, press a button and you can blow me up plus his charge shots, it’s just very low skill for high reward. It forces me into a more dive style but it’s hard to dive on Circuit. On my team I don’t like Sombras, I feel like they don’t understand when to apply pressure or who to target, I feel like they just do their thing and don’t think about the game. I don’t like Mercy as support, she’s worthless and mercy players have zero game sense
On dps I don’t like mauga or hog as tank, I feel like nothing ever happens. It’s not the tank busting aspect for me it’s the just slooow pace. I don’t like having characters like junk as my other dps. I hate mercy on support for my team. The other team I don’t care for mauga hog, just boring, I don’t like Sombra or junk on the other team, once again even if they get no value it’s annoying. I just don’t like characters who’s whole kit makes me roll my eyes. I actually don’t like Moira or Kiri, not a fan of easy escapes when I nearly kill you. At least if bap uses lamp he can only try to hop away if he’s in a bad spot, Moira and kiri press a button and now if I wanna finish the kill I need to overextend unless I’m tracer.
As support I don’t like Doomfist or Dva as enemy tank because they’ll be pressuring me more than a rein would or even mauga and I play Ana a lot so anti kinda beats up the annoying self heal tanks. I don’t like playing with doom or mauga or hog. Mauga hog are just boring, dooms have a bad tendency of overextending and breaking los. I don’t like having Sombra on my dps, they don’t ever time things right. Wait until I anti to virus you idiot! I hate playing against pharah echo and Sombra, Sombra is annoying and if you don’t have a hit scan specialist on dps it’s annoying, I’ll go bap and be fine with fliers but it’s annoying to have a genji tracer crying for heals while I’m being bombed. And as support moiras annoy me, not necessarily them trying to 1v1 back line but more like once every 50 games I die to a skill orb and it ENRAGES me.
Orisa for tank, tracer for dps and kiri for support.
Orisa is just braindea, no fun to play, no fun to play against.
Tracer: i respect a good tracer and can appreciate the skill it takes to be good with her but god that little mosquito blinking around is annoying.
Kiri cuz her kit is a do it all kit that just isnt fair. She can get away bad positioning for free and a decent kiri is really hard to punish. Plus her E disables most ultimates in the game and that shouldnt be a thing
Interesting poll, I have to say I've struggled to name 2 Tanks and 2 dps because I dont really hate a lot of them. However I missed venture on the list, I hate to play vs them with a passion.
I am junker queen main and nothing feels worse then not being to ult cause kiriko exist and the worst part is how much i have to bait aside from suzu im the worst comp i have to bait a total of 2 cooldowns and 1 ult and at worstt every player cam counter my ult
A factor worth discussion in regards to Kiriko's hate has a lot to do with her perception. Projectile is still viewed by the vast majority of the community as "rng" instead of a show of mechanical skill like hitscan. Because of this, Kiri is often incorrectly regarded as an easy hero to play, which only magnifies the hatred of her strong cooldowns.
But one the other hand has one of the best cooldowns, free escape button, great heal, small hitbox and yes giant projectiles. She is very forgiving
@racmanov You can be forgiving and still difficult to utilize if your tools still demand you to perform at a certain level. Sojourn being a fairly notorious example of being difficult even by blizzards standards, yet having a very forgiving kit.
Kiri's damage is still locked to headshots on a projectile that is objectively harder to hit than any of the other supports, her suzu demands an understanding of when to use it per game, her strong healing is supplemented by the fact that trying to healbot with her will put your team at a disadvantage compared to doing so with the other healers. I think this is highlighted in her (considering her power) surprisingly low winrate.
@@MhnFive she is not difficult m8. Soujorn is also not difficult. I mean even in diamond just farm the tank and delete him with headshoots worked pretty well
Only forgiving character that is hard atm is genji
Kiri is extremely easy to get most of her value with. I’ve seen many kiris in high diamond/ low master elo have sub-1000 damage games, just healbotting. Getting 100% of kiri’s value - reaching the skill ceiling - is very difficult. But kiri’s baseline value is way higher than it should be. People are basically playing mercy (in terms of skill/effort) with even more survivability and the infinite value of suzu. Not to mention that when kiris actually do damage, a lot of it is from head height spamming from long range. There’s barely any risk involved in playing her the way most people play her.
As an offrole support player and a lucio main, kiri is pretty damn easy to win with in ranked; despite her high skill ceiling.
@@racmanovYes, in diamond where players are significantly more competent than the majority of the playerbase. As experienced players, I'm aware we've grown to view diamond as a mediocre rank but we need to acknowledge that to the literal majority of the playerbase, diamond is considered a goal so high that masters is incomprehensible.
The skill-disparity of Sojourn at high & low ranks was directly cited as an early reason for Sojourn not getting nerfed in prior patches. Even now, she sits at the lowest winrate of all dps picks on overbuff. Yes, there are a lot of bad sojourn players. But perhaps that's indicative of something besides a coincidentally large amount of bad players.
I think the biggest Doom issue is actually his ult.
When a doom makes a mistake and you have him dead to rights and invest in the kill... he literally goes to space. It's not a movement ability he DISAPPEARS instantly. Even wrecking ball has to plan a functional escape. Super obnoxious that it has no counterplay whatsoever. It's the closest thing to a retcon in the game like if a tank had recall!
100+ hours on doom here. I feel like meteor strike used to be fine, since escaping and going to a health pack/your supports means giving up a lot of space and pressure. The healing effect during his ult sucks. I hate it. One of the worst balance changes they've done in a while. Every time they "buff" doom, they just make him easier and more annoying. The devs don't know how to balance doom
@@abudgie6909 I mean I hate the healing because it's just definitive proof the devs are so out of touch on doom they end up nerfing him when trying to give him a buff. It's more insulting than the bugs that get worse after every "fix". There's genuinely not a chance that a single dev plays doom at all when they don't understand the ult or especially how they don't notice doom is unplayably bugged like beginning of s9 or back when they made his block not block damage.
@@lukasg4807 exactly my thoughts. The bugfist problem is so bad that I’ve actually just become a winston main instead.
I am surprised to seeing any bap hate, considering he has lamp and regen burst that shutdown any play.
I’m a diamond console player, my issue with sombra isn’t even with her effectiveness, or how good of a hero she is, it has to do with what she does and how it happens, I, as a large amount of the heroes in overwatch 2 can be hacked out of my ultimate and not even be able to see her til it’s done. It just feels bad to play against, of course I should be tracking her hacks, but I can’t track them all, and hack has a super small cooldown. It just feels bad
people dont like lifeweaver because bad lifeweaver players using life grip improperly is miserable and those 1/10 experiences influence their opinion on the character as a whole. I personally play lifeweaver situationally (im mainly a zenyatta/moira player) and i find his kit to be very fun, if anything a bit underpowered with a few flaws
(weapon swap lag, movement speed slowing down with healing blossom)
As a Sombra main (when I play DPS), I think her hate is extremely overexaggerated and I'm unsurprised to see that lower ranks HATE her. Sombra is extremely punishing to lower ranked players because:
-She's a hard character to kill for those with less mechanical skill
-She's especially hated by controller players because controllers make her hard to counter (i.e. can't turn around fast or chase after her effectively)
-She punishes players who lack game sense or cooldown management
-People are under the assumption Sombra is easy mode, when that's DEFINETLY not the case. Being good at Sombra takes mechanical skill and game sense, and you can tell when somebody only went Sombra because "she's invisible and I hear she's OP".
It's funny though, because as a Sombra main, she's really not that good against skilled players. As I go up in ranks, the players easily counter me, spy check, dive after me etc. However, I can see why GMs would be afraid of a competent GM Sombra though.
For the most part though, Sombra hate stems from skill diffs 99% of the time. She takes way too much effort to get kills/value from, so if you die to her a lot, it's on you (or, the Sombra outplayed you in a fair situation). Either way, I'll continue to main her, mainly just because she's fun to play tbh.
Its less because of pure effectiveness and more because denying people the opportunity to use their abilities in an ability based game will always be annoying and even rage inducing no matter how you slice it. She's hated similarly to why stuns are hated: they take away player agency.
He literally said sombra was hated in all ranks lol. Oh yes, so skillful to attack an enemy that can’t see or hear you. Yup, I got outplayed sooooo much by that. Get this in your head: Information in a shooter game is critical. A hero that cannot be seen or heard while moving around with no cover, is the worst game design choice possible. You have guaranteed opening damage on every engagement, and have disabled their abilities already. Not to mention the element of surprise. There is no fair situation when playing against her. You just huddle up with your supports because supports are still strong af. Doing that, however, presents a tactical problem because there are many heroes that take advantage of teams that are playing close together. She’s been good in every meta this season, and is always slept on because a few heroes (namely Tracer) that are great in every meta gatekeep her. Not to mention how few players coordinate with sombra in ranked.
@mag1cman777 Yep. The closest comparison from Fps is probably spy from tf2. And at least he can't be permanently invisible, can't hack you and his main attack, backstabbing, requires him to be in melee range. Plus he has no "get out of jail free" translocator if the player has bad positioning.
Sombra is hated at lower ranks because either players don't notice Sombra is shooting them from behind during the fight or if she is hitting virus, teammates don't turn around and help you win the fight...
shame i both did not know about this survey and it does not consider all heroes as I think the numbers would change. at least from a bronze support perspective. with heroes like Ana being lothed more than Kiri and tanks like Dva, Doom and Winton. due to dive for the most point. with hated dps being somthing like widow, junk, Venture above heroes like Genji sombra tracer
I like playing as lifeweaver, but his healing just isn't good. If his healing charged automatically like illari's regular fire does. i would finally be able to help when the other team rushs
Not t sure if this os factored into your numbers but there will be an element of hate playing with and hate playing against. Low ranks aren't so fond of playing with hog because he feeds and doesn't tank but probably aren't as fussed playing against him due to low hook accuracy in low ranks.
There's also probably just bias from how a character feels
Mauga has a low pick and win rate but people still voted for him a ton, hog on the other hand is being picked a lot and winning more especially in higher ranks so I can see people's frustrations there because we're seeing a lot more of him now but personally I don't hate him since there are ways of denying his value and make him miss hooks or not be able to escape
I think perception is a big thing here too some characters might feel worse to play vs than they actually are
i hate sombra cause i’m bad and i can’t counter her or face her properly, but i’m getting better i guess, think more before decide if i go into her or just run away. a GOOD sombra focusing me (dva) fucks my game 100% and good sombras decide games too (if nobody in the team deals with her), important role