THis is an interesting topic. I was taught many years ago at Oregon State University that shake was caused by wind. There was no mention of a bacterium being involved. I learned something new today! Thank you
I swear Emerald is going to make me pay a visit to the log yard to purchase lumber that i do not need just so that i can see that beautiful angelic face up close!!! She is such an intelligent young woman. Wise way beyond her years. The way she explains everything is just perfection. This is definitely one of the best videos she has made so far
@@stevecarlson6462 WOW, why would you suggest that? Emerald is an intelligent woman and all you can see is her appearance and then suggest she lowers herself to such a degrading career that does nothing more than spread lies.
@@petebusch9069 The last part is not true she could be a reporter but she is not, Emerald is just a very intelligent person when it comes to log industry, which by the way she learned from the BOSS's Aka Parents who taught her well. Reporters do not spread lies. They are biased in many ways taking no sides just present the facts as they see it. It is called POV.
@@terrancevangemert7508 WOW, reporters do not spread lies!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARE YOUR KIDDING ME? This IS what they do and I see the propaganda machine is working well with you. You even say it in your post, "they are biased in many ways taking no sides, just present the facts as they see it" The "as they see it" part is where they slide the BS in. Also, how can you be biased but not take a side at the same time? This is how a professional liar works and you fell for it. Let me tell you something simple, truth does not have room for personal views, it is what it is and stands completely on its own and I suggest you start searching for it.
I'm a timber (selling abroad pine products, tropical hardwoods). Your videos refresh me on technicalities on logs and timber in general. Great job! Wish you all the success you reach!
Cut down a 28" red oak once. 14' to the first limb. The tree settled on a bit of an angle and when I made the first cut at about 9', the center 14" of the log slid out. Completely separated. Looked like the log was drilled out it was so uniform. Crazy.
Here in the Missouri Ozarks, blackjack oak is a common tree that is worthless for lumber because the wood comes apart on the growth rings as it dries. If it genetically crosses with red or black oak, shakiness is not such a big problem. I was told by sawmill operators 50 years ago that wet wood like sycamore tends to be shakey when the temperature goes below zero, freezes the tree and causes separation of the growth rings.
As a sawyer who saws on a hand set circle mill, my worst nightmare is sawing into a horse shoe or railroad spike but, you're also correct, cutting logs with shake is frustrating.
If it is a sickness in the trees, you may be able to notice an age at which it got sick and check other trees at the same age rings . There may have been a tree bacteria going around at that time.
I recently sawed a 30” hickory that had shake in about 8” from diameter of the tree. What was weird is inside the shake area was tiny knots everywhere. Looks like where limbs was once trying to form. Glad I found a video on this knowing I’m not the only one that has seen this. Thanks for your video keep it up!
As a lifelong carpenter, we always called that condition checking or check cracking. Although I must admit, I never knew what caused it. Best regards from Indiana.
I used to work in a joinery yard our boss was very fussy about his timber, he would accept no splits, no shakes and no knots. We were told that shakes occurred when a tree had fallen and hit another tree damaging the Cambrian layer, this caused dieback in that area for that year and in young trees, the damage becomes absorbed as the tree grows to cause weakness in that area.
Being a carpenter of 50 years i always assumed that impact with the ground when the tree was felled caused shake, never thought of it any other way, interesting stuff.
When I was younger, I worked in the lumber industry as a contractor sales dude. I love your videos and have learned much more than I already knew. Thank you for posting such interesting videos. You and your sister are the best!
It's just incredibly fun to listen to Emerald - even if I don't understand all the technical terms, she explains it so brilliantly that I understand the whole thing. I really like this TH-cam channel. By the way, Emerald looks gorgeous again today...
Hi I have fallen trees for 45yrs I always called them torque cracks see it in fir trees a lot they have very large canopy’s on them and not tight to other trees. It allows the tree to twist The splits do come to the outside of the tree and you will see sap running down the tree You are doing a great job keep up the good work be safe
A good sawyer thinks about all these things, makes an assessment, and cuts accordingly to get the maximum footage from a log. There is no substitute for an experienced sawyer. The best sawyers are lumber graders. Knot size and placement...it all factors into it. Good video, Em.
I'm a horticulturist and botanist in Southeastern Louisiana and I'm going back to regain my aubrist license for the state of Louisiana and I've been doing some follow-ups and touch-ups and doing the ISA handbook to get ready for the exam and I'm going through some of your videos and I have just learned from you the word shake I knew what Jake was the other day and not seen your video and I have a really good comprehensive understanding of it and I always knew there was a trauma to trees down in areas where we have strong hurricane winds and tornadic wind gusts and I've noticed trees particularly pine trees and some oaks that have a damage to them and I knew the fibers inside were damaged from twisting or the bending of a tree to a point and knowing that you can you can actually hear the fibers break but I never knew it was referred to as shake and your video how you did it was absolutely spot on thank you very much for your concise and eloquent description of it thank you
Very good presentation, Emerald. I feel bad for poor Jade having to walk backwards through the woods. I can scarcely walk forward without tripping on a stick these days! The fall colors look great. It's almost time for me to hit the woods with my bow.
I have always heard that shake was "wind" shake and that disease issues would normally leave telltale spalting tracks. A 'check" to my way of thinking is normally a result of shrinking (drying). Just what I've always thought.
My Helmocks get that, I think its from tree movement during the winter months when the temperatures are well below freezing, Hemlocks have twice as much water in the wood fibers than Fir trees and other species, sometimes you can hear them " pop" while freezing
That's pretty cool that you don't have to shim out the log as your milling on the woodmeizer. I only have an Alaskan mill, and if I don't shim it out as I pass the saw, my cuts are off
Very interesting video. I never realized that cracks like that actually had a name. Also it’s good to see that you would take the time to research and then present your findings in an understandable way. Good job!
Good job on shake , bacteria and stress are the main cause of ring and wind shake, you are learning, cutting thicker sometimes helps but its still in there and as it dries will spread .E&J keep up the good work your dad can be proud. Bill Brady certified grader #6709 NAHB
I wish you to know that I think your communication skills and your enthusiasm make your videos informative and entertaining. You are doing a super job. Thanks for being so entertaining. Ian Petrolia Ontario Canada
Great vid Emerald. Very informative as always. As a Sawyer you are very knowledgeable. This shows in all the vids you do. Great job on the video camera Jade. Another great vid by the dynamic duo Emerald and Jade.
Seen shake in Poplar as well. Both have relationships with mycelium. Aka mushrooms is it a bacterial or fungal infection, or both? Once weakest then wind no doubt has a greater affect.
here in the Pacific Northwest, our fir and hemlocks are huge, most have shake somewhere. As a owner of a portable sawmill business, and an ex logger, Shake here usually is from either wind (wind shake), or, improper felling. Hitting the ground so hard the fibers split. however, I am sure snow load and things have a factor also.
I first clicked on yall because I saw your red hair. It is beautiful. Your accent and way of speaking to us/the camera is peaceful in addition to informative. I'm a grand parent living outside Austin Texas, retired, I am now hooked on yall's videos. Thanks
I find shake in some oak logs since that is what we have here in my area. More often in water oak. Sycamore too as they like to grow in the same places. They grow in wet areas along rivers and creeks. Most always if cutting a stand of trees and one has shake there will be more of them that have it. I too have been told it is a bacterial thing. Good video.
Another excellent informative and enjoyable video.. With Emerald in front of the camera with her easy style of talking and communicating, and Jade behind the camera doing an outstanding job, these videos are just getting better and better. No wonder that every time I look at the subscribers following you, it just keeps climbing; well done! Also lovely to see the season changing the colours on the hills behind you. The loveliest season IMO
Hi Emerald! "Shake" was something that we ran into while pulling "Green Chain" when I was a teen! We tried to warn new-comers about what to watch for while pulling lumber, but we pulled 110k board feet in an 8 hour shift.. Supposed to have an 8 man crew, but we usually ran with 6. It was hard and fast paced work. Anyway, had a new guy that was doing pretty well, but along came a board that had the dreaded kind of "shake" that created a "lance" like point along the inside edge that was about 5 feet long on a wet 12x16x1" board he pulled at speed! That "Lance" entered his right side and traveled between his stomach hide and his abominable muscles from right to left, coming out his left side, impaling him on that board! We had to cut the "lance" off the board and send him and the "lance" both the the E.R. that night to get the poor guy taken care of! He was lucky that he wasn't killed! All our logs were kept in the river and everything we pulled was soaked wet and very "noodle like" and heavy. You learn fast to keep your eyes open for those kinds of dangers!
The bad thing about shake is you don't really see it until you saw it, a lot of wasted effort. I hadn't heard the bacterium reason before. We were always told stress caused it. I cut a hemlock in my backyard and it was so shaky it fell apart on my friends band mill. This grew on a step side hill. It does seem like trees in an area have shake or not, so the bacteria sounds like a factor.
Birch is a very prolific species around my area. Above some size (maybe 20” diameter) the pretty much ALL have shake going sometimes 30+’ up the trunk. Over 24” or so diameter I have yet to see one without some amount of heart rot. The amount of heart rot varies a lot but usually goes at least several feet up from the felling cut. Sometimes 15+’ up. The wood is amazingly beautiful, but the heart rot and shake really limits its lumber value.
I spent 10 years of my life logging cottonwood in one of the great plains states. Cottonwood seed will only germinate on bare ground such as you find on a flood plain that has just experienced a flood and a new layer of silt. Consequently, a cottonwood grove will have almost all of the trees being within a couple of years, the same age. My observation is that either almost all or almost none of the trees in the grove will have shake, leading me to believe that probably the seed came from one parent tree and shake is in the genetics.
had timber that was affect from a micro burst. on the outside you would have thought it was going to open up the most beautiful hemlock one could imagine, after sawing most of the lot was ripped apart. wind damage along with minerals and contaminated nutrients are the most general cause. hemlock seems the most vulnerable, but it shows up in EWP a lot as well
Great video both of you, Emerald Brilliant Brilliant Brilliant fantastic you talking through the video more more more please. Hello from England 🏴
This is extremely helpful. I have been trying to figure out why my Cedar trees have so much shake. This is a very plausible explanation. The reason I had to cut the Cedars down in the first place is because some tree bacteria came through and killed a bunch of them.
These boards are not trash. My local sawyer ( in central VT) saves a " cull pile " of Shakey hemlock. He sells these boards at a heavily reduced rate. I have seen, (and often copied) examples of this lumber being used as roof support on our buildings and the like. Some of the structures I have seen are over a hundred years old, and still solid, even with the snow loads up north here. So please don't throw out this valuable resource.
I grew up on a farm that has 2 farm places and every building except the houses are built out of cottonwood dating back to the 1920s. The cottonwood source and the mill are on that farm. You are right, nothing is wasted. Those shakey boards work just fine for roof sheathing or cut down into 1X4 boards to use as battens if the buildings have board and batten cottonwood siding. Wood furnaces in the homes take care of the rest of the scrap.
Well, for sure, some trees are more prone to ring shake than others. Ash is one, and so is pacific yew. I have also heard it called wind shake, but don't know how much that plays into it. Some times it is invisible, even if you know what to look for. If I see any of it in a bowl blank, it goes into the wood stove. Had one ash bowl that lasted about 3 years,, and then cracked along a slightly darker ring. Bacteria could play a part, but not sure if there is a weakness in the tree first and then the bacteria makes it worse or what.... Some times the whole log is full of shake, some times there is just one ring that has shake. Seems to be highly variable.
So then explain one grove of cottonwood being mostly "shook while 200 yards away will be another grove with perfect logs. I am talking natural growing trees on flood plains. I explained my thinking in another post
I worked in a log home planer mill for years and never knew what caused shake. (4x6 tongue & groove Hemlock cabin logs aaaargh) We always planed our Hemlock logs and built our cabins when they were green because of the shake. Thanks for teaching this old dog something I didn't know.
Here in australia we allso call a defect where the log has been stressed and the fibers compressed across the grain , shake. Caused mainly in the felling of the tree when it hits a ridge , hollow or stump etc. Thanks for the new term . Ring shake. 42 years in carpentry and still learning. 🤔😀😎👌
My Grandaddy always called it wind shake. He said it was caused by the wind blowing the tree back and forth. He was a professional sawmill/ logger all his life
Great tutorial Em!! Great camera work Jade!! I watched closely as you cut closer to that ring crack. Very interesting! Thank you. Let me SHAKE your hands for a job well done! 👍👍👍
Very informative, learning a lot about wood. But FYI one reason I started watching your channel was one of your thumbnails showed you wearing you knife. I thought, a fiery red head with a fixed blade, I have to watch this. And I did miss it
We get shake in some trees here on Vancouver Island in some of the yew logs I cut , I have seen it go up as far as 10 feet on some of the older yew and a piece 24 inch across there has been so many rings compromised you can not even split it with an axe because the blade just gets absorbed into the wood and pops out.. What can be interesting is we have had cases where some roots near the bottom start to come back up into it and rotten sections ..
Good video. Shake can be very dangerous for wood turners. Having a bowl delaminate due to shake while turning at 1000 rpm (or higher) is a butt-puckering moment. :)
💚 Very informative. Thank You. You just jumped to the front of the line for my nomination for employee of the week. Sadly I have to wait for Sami's week review on Sunday. Not to put any pressure on her, however you have Em. Kudos
Thanks for the lesson. I was milling a Ash with my Alaskan mill last year and had this happen in a dramatic way. I felled the tree, it did not split and it laid down smooth. However it did have quite the lean to it. That’s what I thought it was from. The stress in the tree from growing at such an angle. It being almost 40” before the root swell I thought there would be some neat slabs in it. Even at 2 1/2” thick they split and bowed hard right after they were slabbed, within minutes. This is something to keep an eye out for as I gain more experience making slabs and sawdust.
Emerald, interesting subject that you brought up. There is only 1% of a tree that is alive and that being the closest growth ring to the bark so I would think that what ever happened to that log you demonstrated on happened years ago (based on growth after the shake) when that ring separated or became infected or stressed and that years growth became non-liiving cells followed by the growth ring of the next year. The years thereafter incased and hid that defect or injury and strengthened and stabilized the continued growth of the tree. Your thought?
As Logger and Sawyer I have seen it and sawed logs on a circle mill , and shake logs can be very dangerous if they start falling apart when sawing thru the log and pieces get loose on the saw blade things could get flying at you. Always expect the worst. I have sawed logs that showed some shake and sawed out just fine with little to no shake. And l have sawed logs that looked ok ( no sign of shake ) and fell apart when in the saw , that was a surprise, just never know what might happen . Small band mill is safer when sawing shake logs , less chance of things flying at you . I have had logs that grown at the edge of the woods that when sawed thru the center that bent a lot . Sun on the one side of the tree made it grow weird . I sawed a 16 foot red oak down to 8 5/16" x 8 5/16" cant to be sawed in to four 4" x 4" x 16 foot . I run it through the saw and it bent about 4" or more in 16 feet , put the two bent 4 x 8,s the carriage to saw in to four 4 x 4,s and sawed it again and it bent even more , now 8" or more bend in 16 feet , looked like four big bananas , totally bad , I cut it all into short pieces for blocking. Had to get another log to saw out that order. Stay safe and keep the sawdust flying .
I didn't know what that was named. I always chalked it up to stresses that happened when the tree was fell. I have seen poplar split in half when the logger threw it against the bank of a gully. The tree was about 90' tall and thr gully was about 40' deep and when the tree hit the top of the gully the tree split right down the center length ways. I enjoy your videos and really enjoy how you all work together. Keep up the good work. I wish you were on the east coast so you could quarter saw me some lumber.
I took a large oak log (about 36” or so)to a mill many years ago that had shake and he cut boards from the outsides but wouldn’t cut the center piece which was about 10 to 12” square. He told me that shake comes from water freezing in the tree and when the wind bends it, it will crack. His grandfather was killed when cutting a tree with shake, like it exploded and hit him, that’s why he wouldn’t finish cutting it.
After nearly 60 plus years in the timber industry (off and on)...I have learned here and there (occasionally in error) other factor for shake. Here in the Pacific N/W major timber species are Doug Fir, Western Larch, Ponderosa Pine, Engelmann Spruce, Hemlock, Cedar to name most thar reach saw log size. In the early days of logging here, the first 8 to 10 feet of the tree was left in the woods, (also to bypass butt swell) also spring boards (holes chopped into the trunk w/ boards to stand on) while using Misery Whips(crosscut saws) were utilized to avoid both swell and shake, often referred to as "Wind Shake" here. The explanation I received from experienced woodsmen, was that, especially in taller timber (old growth), the wind sway works on the bottom vascular system of the trees. Worth some thought any way.
That just goes to show that "The first step in solving a problem is recognizing there is one" and then the next part is what to do about it, in the best way.
I never knew what caused these let alone what they were called. 65 years old and still learning every day. Thanks Emerald and Jade.
THis is an interesting topic. I was taught many years ago at Oregon State University that shake was caused by wind. There was no mention of a bacterium being involved. I learned something new today! Thank you
WOW Professor Emerald your getting real good with your tutorials. Boss Man may need to give you and the camera person a raise! Thanks for sharing!
Emerald, every time you explain something I am totally awed at your knowledge and I learn something every time
Thanks for the lesson. Im getting ready to take several nice cherry logs to mill, and I will check my end grain before deciding my cuts.
Great job Emerald ! The colors are starting ..wooo hooo.
From an old man logger with a mill in Northern Canada....Love passion that these young ladies have for an otherwise male atmosphere
Em. very extensive explanation of "Shake " in a log i learned something today.. I talked to your mom today , she is the best!!
I swear Emerald is going to make me pay a visit to the log yard to purchase lumber that i do not need just so that i can see that beautiful angelic face up close!!! She is such an intelligent young woman. Wise way beyond her years. The way she explains everything is just perfection. This is definitely one of the best videos she has made so far
I agree. She would be great as a tv news reporter or anything in media. She and her sisters are very photogenic.
@@stevecarlson6462 Not sure anything related to TV would interest her to much. To me it looks like she wants to run her families business one day.
@@stevecarlson6462 WOW, why would you suggest that? Emerald is an intelligent woman and all you can see is her appearance and then suggest she lowers herself to such a degrading career that does nothing more than spread lies.
@@petebusch9069 The last part is not true she could be a reporter but she is not, Emerald is just a very intelligent person when it comes to log industry, which by the way she learned from the BOSS's Aka Parents who taught her well. Reporters do not spread lies. They are biased in many ways taking no sides just present the facts as they see it. It is called POV.
@@terrancevangemert7508 WOW, reporters do not spread lies!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARE YOUR KIDDING ME? This IS what they do and I see the propaganda machine is working well with you. You even say it in your post, "they are biased in many ways taking no sides, just present the facts as they see it" The "as they see it" part is where they slide the BS in. Also, how can you be biased but not take a side at the same time? This is how a professional liar works and you fell for it. Let me tell you something simple, truth does not have room for personal views, it is what it is and stands completely on its own and I suggest you start searching for it.
You are correct. There is both laminated root rot and wind and weather ring shake
I'm a timber (selling abroad pine products, tropical hardwoods). Your videos refresh me on technicalities on logs and timber in general. Great job! Wish you all the success you reach!
Cut down a 28" red oak once. 14' to the first limb. The tree settled on a bit of an angle and when I made the first cut at about 9', the center 14" of the log slid out. Completely separated. Looked like the log was drilled out it was so uniform. Crazy.
Here in the Missouri Ozarks, blackjack oak is a common tree that is worthless for lumber because the wood comes apart on the growth rings as it dries. If it genetically crosses with red or black oak, shakiness is not such a big problem. I was told by sawmill operators 50 years ago that wet wood like sycamore tends to be shakey when the temperature goes below zero, freezes the tree and causes separation of the growth rings.
As a sawyer who saws on a hand set circle mill, my worst nightmare is sawing into a horse shoe or railroad spike but, you're also correct, cutting logs with shake is frustrating.
If it is a sickness in the trees, you may be able to notice an age at which it got sick and check other trees at the same age rings . There may have been a tree bacteria going around at that time.
I miss having woods to walk in. The woods were my playground as a kid.
When I started watching I thought just another pretty face o u tube , but you got it going on ! The knowledge keeps shinning through .
Never realized how exciting it is cutting wood.
This channel needs 10X more subscribers now....
Em has a lot of potential as an instructor or on-camera host.
I recently sawed a 30” hickory that had shake in about 8” from diameter of the tree. What was weird is inside the shake area was tiny knots everywhere. Looks like where limbs was once trying to form. Glad I found a video on this knowing I’m not the only one that has seen this. Thanks for your video keep it up!
As a lifelong carpenter, we always called that condition checking or check cracking. Although I must admit, I never knew what caused it.
Best regards from Indiana.
That is not a "check. Check happens in the drying process and is a stress fracture. Different thing entirely but the same end result,
Love the fact that you said bacterium and not bacteria... 👍😎
I used to work in a joinery yard our boss was very fussy about his timber, he would accept no splits, no shakes and no knots. We were told that shakes occurred when a tree had fallen and hit another tree damaging the Cambrian layer, this caused dieback in that area for that year and in young trees, the damage becomes absorbed as the tree grows to cause weakness in that area.
Love the walk in the woods and the video. Thank you Emerald and Jade ❤👍🏼😎🌹😊
You ladies have a good thing going. Onward and upward.
Congratulations Emerald and Jade. Another grand cinematic production.🏆👍 Getting better every time.
Being a carpenter of 50 years i always assumed that impact with the ground when the tree was felled caused shake, never thought of it any other way, interesting stuff.
Very pretty back ground. Nice color in the trees.
When I was younger, I worked in the lumber industry as a contractor sales dude. I love your videos and have learned much more than I already knew. Thank you for posting such interesting videos. You and your sister are the best!
Thank you, a great explanation. Until now the only "Shake" I knew was in the form of shingles.
What I have observed is that external forces like rolling the logs strengthens the Emerald! Not sure what could possibly weaken the Emerald?
She tossed that log around like it was as light as a pretzel rod.
It's just incredibly fun to listen to Emerald - even if I don't understand all the technical terms, she explains it so brilliantly that I understand the whole thing. I really like this TH-cam channel. By the way, Emerald looks gorgeous again today...
Bias
Hi I have fallen trees for 45yrs
I always called them torque cracks see it in fir trees a lot they have very large canopy’s on them and not tight to other trees. It allows the tree to twist
The splits do come to the outside of the tree and you will see sap running down the tree
You are doing a great job keep up the good work be safe
A good sawyer thinks about all these things, makes an assessment, and cuts accordingly to get the maximum footage from a log. There is no substitute for an experienced sawyer. The best sawyers are lumber graders. Knot size and placement...it all factors into it. Good video, Em.
Emerald, you are very skilled and knowledgeable about the lumber business.
Emerald, thank you for increasing my level of understanding. This explains so much! Often I have wondered about this cause and now I know!
Clear and Awesome explanation! Thank You Emerald and Jade.
Who is Amber lol
Emerald, not Amber. I agree, it was a good explanation. Nice fall foliage in the woods, too. 🍁🍂
@@ronsamborski6230 I stand corrected; edited the reply. Thanks Brother.
@@robertcourson8002 lol Got it Corrected; Thank You.
@@jtkdmd6266 I kinda figured it was a mistake.
I'm a horticulturist and botanist in Southeastern Louisiana and I'm going back to regain my aubrist license for the state of Louisiana and I've been doing some follow-ups and touch-ups and doing the ISA handbook to get ready for the exam and I'm going through some of your videos and I have just learned from you the word shake I knew what Jake was the other day and not seen your video and I have a really good comprehensive understanding of it and I always knew there was a trauma to trees down in areas where we have strong hurricane winds and tornadic wind gusts and I've noticed trees particularly pine trees and some oaks that have a damage to them and I knew the fibers inside were damaged from twisting or the bending of a tree to a point and knowing that you can you can actually hear the fibers break but I never knew it was referred to as shake and your video how you did it was absolutely spot on thank you very much for your concise and eloquent description of it thank you
Very good presentation, Emerald. I feel bad for poor Jade having to walk backwards through the woods. I can scarcely walk forward without tripping on a stick these days! The fall colors look great. It's almost time for me to hit the woods with my bow.
After hurricane Bob in 1991, found a lot of shake in red oak boards i bought that winter thought it was from wind bending the tree.
I have always heard that shake was "wind" shake and that disease issues would normally leave telltale spalting tracks. A 'check" to my way of thinking is normally a result of shrinking (drying). Just what I've always thought.
Thank you all for sharing your beautiful video's. 👍
My Helmocks get that, I think its from tree movement during the winter months when the temperatures are well below freezing, Hemlocks have twice as much water in the wood fibers than Fir trees and other species, sometimes you can hear them " pop" while freezing
Great video. You do a great job explaining and sawing lumber. Keep up the great work. Hello from South Eastern part of Kansas.
That's pretty cool that you don't have to shim out the log as your milling on the woodmeizer. I only have an Alaskan mill, and if I don't shim it out as I pass the saw, my cuts are off
Very interesting video. I never realized that cracks like that actually had a name. Also it’s good to see that you would take the time to research and then present your findings in an understandable way. Good job!
Keep the good work going and thanks for posting, hey!
Good job on shake , bacteria and stress are the main cause of ring and wind shake, you are learning, cutting thicker sometimes helps but its still in there and as it dries will spread .E&J keep up the good work your dad can be proud. Bill Brady certified grader #6709 NAHB
I wish you to know that I think your communication skills and your enthusiasm make your videos informative and entertaining. You are doing a super job. Thanks for being so entertaining.
Ian
Petrolia Ontario Canada
Great vid Emerald. Very informative as always. As a Sawyer you are very knowledgeable. This shows in all the vids you do. Great job on the video camera Jade. Another great vid by the dynamic duo Emerald and Jade.
What a great idea. A informational walk in the woods. What a class room ; fantastic. Thanks to you and your camera person . Beautifully done.👍
Seen shake in Poplar as well. Both have relationships with mycelium. Aka mushrooms is it a bacterial or fungal infection, or both? Once weakest then wind no doubt has a greater affect.
here in the Pacific Northwest, our fir and hemlocks are huge, most have shake somewhere. As a owner of a portable sawmill business, and an ex logger, Shake here usually is from either wind (wind shake), or, improper felling. Hitting the ground so hard the fibers split. however, I am sure snow load and things have a factor also.
I first clicked on yall because I saw your red hair. It is beautiful. Your accent and way of speaking to us/the camera is peaceful in addition to informative. I'm a grand parent living outside Austin Texas, retired, I am now hooked on yall's videos. Thanks
Seriously impressive the way she can spot that stuff just glancing at it. I expect experience helps quite a bit but all the same, she's good!
Emerald is so Knowledgeable 👍. And yet so Beautiful ❤ Hi from Deep South Texas
I find shake in some oak logs since that is what we have here in my area. More often in water oak. Sycamore too as they like to grow in the same places. They grow in wet areas along rivers and creeks. Most always if cutting a stand of trees and one has shake there will be more of them that have it. I too have been told it is a bacterial thing. Good video.
Very cool I heard that hemlock fights off the bugs that are killing the pine trees. The pine bore beetles
I wonder how old your are, you are very good at what you do. Thanks !
I love how passionate you are and how much of a hard worker you are to . Very Inspirational
Another excellent informative and enjoyable video.. With Emerald in front of the camera with her easy style of talking and communicating, and Jade behind the camera doing an outstanding job, these videos are just getting better and better. No wonder that every time I look at the subscribers following you, it just keeps climbing; well done! Also lovely to see the season changing the colours on the hills behind you. The loveliest season IMO
Hi Emerald! "Shake" was something that we ran into while pulling "Green Chain" when I was a teen! We tried to warn new-comers about what to watch for while pulling lumber, but we pulled 110k board feet in an 8 hour shift.. Supposed to have an 8 man crew, but we usually ran with 6. It was hard and fast paced work. Anyway, had a new guy that was doing pretty well, but along came a board that had the dreaded kind of "shake" that created a "lance" like point along the inside edge that was about 5 feet long on a wet 12x16x1" board he pulled at speed! That "Lance" entered his right side and traveled between his stomach hide and his abominable muscles from right to left, coming out his left side, impaling him on that board!
We had to cut the "lance" off the board and send him and the "lance" both the the E.R. that night to get the poor guy taken care of!
He was lucky that he wasn't killed! All our logs were kept in the river and everything we pulled was soaked wet and very "noodle like" and heavy. You learn fast to keep your eyes open for those kinds of dangers!
The bad thing about shake is you don't really see it until you saw it, a lot of wasted effort. I hadn't heard the bacterium reason before. We were always told stress caused it. I cut a hemlock in my backyard and it was so shaky it fell apart on my friends band mill. This grew on a step side hill. It does seem like trees in an area have shake or not, so the bacteria sounds like a factor.
Birch is a very prolific species around my area. Above some size (maybe 20” diameter) the pretty much ALL have shake going sometimes 30+’ up the trunk. Over 24” or so diameter I have yet to see one without some amount of heart rot. The amount of heart rot varies a lot but usually goes at least several feet up from the felling cut. Sometimes 15+’ up. The wood is amazingly beautiful, but the heart rot and shake really limits its lumber value.
I love birch aswell particularly the species in Finland and Russia
I spent 10 years of my life logging cottonwood in one of the great plains states. Cottonwood seed will only germinate on bare ground such as you find on a flood plain that has just experienced a flood and a new layer of silt. Consequently, a cottonwood grove will have almost all of the trees being within a couple of years, the same age. My observation is that either almost all or almost none of the trees in the grove will have shake, leading me to believe that probably the seed came from one parent tree and shake is in the genetics.
had timber that was affect from a micro burst. on the outside you would have thought it was going to open up the most beautiful hemlock one could imagine, after sawing most of the lot was ripped apart. wind damage along with minerals and contaminated nutrients are the most general cause. hemlock seems the most vulnerable, but it shows up in EWP a lot as well
Great video both of you,
Emerald Brilliant Brilliant Brilliant fantastic you talking through the video more more more please.
Hello from England 🏴
Em. This is another great video. I thought shake was caused by wind only. Great job.
This is extremely helpful. I have been trying to figure out why my Cedar trees have so much shake. This is a very plausible explanation. The reason I had to cut the Cedars down in the first place is because some tree bacteria came through and killed a bunch of them.
..."I'm getting caught all over." LOL you crack me up. I started laughing on that one. You can be funny and not even know it.
These boards are not trash. My local sawyer ( in central VT) saves a " cull pile " of Shakey hemlock. He sells these boards at a heavily reduced rate. I have seen, (and often copied) examples of this lumber being used as roof support on our buildings and the like. Some of the structures I have seen are over a hundred years old, and still solid, even with the snow loads up north here. So please don't throw out this valuable resource.
I'm sure, at the very least it, goes in the firewood bundles. Ain't nuthin' wasted by these folks.
I grew up on a farm that has 2 farm places and every building except the houses are built out of cottonwood dating back to the 1920s. The cottonwood source and the mill are on that farm. You are right, nothing is wasted. Those shakey boards work just fine for roof sheathing or cut down into 1X4 boards to use as battens if the buildings have board and batten cottonwood siding. Wood furnaces in the homes take care of the rest of the scrap.
Thanks. Good luck! 👍
Great video, well demonstrated and explained. 😁
Well, for sure, some trees are more prone to ring shake than others. Ash is one, and so is pacific yew. I have also heard it called wind shake, but don't know how much that plays into it. Some times it is invisible, even if you know what to look for. If I see any of it in a bowl blank, it goes into the wood stove. Had one ash bowl that lasted about 3 years,, and then cracked along a slightly darker ring. Bacteria could play a part, but not sure if there is a weakness in the tree first and then the bacteria makes it worse or what.... Some times the whole log is full of shake, some times there is just one ring that has shake. Seems to be highly variable.
Generally it is caused by wind damage, so you tend to get it in an entire area. Hemlock trees are just more susceptible to damage from wind.
So then explain one grove of cottonwood being mostly "shook while 200 yards away will be another grove with perfect logs. I am talking natural growing trees on flood plains. I explained my thinking in another post
Hi girls love your videos keep up the good work wish you could make them videos longer Gary from Ohio
thanks Emerald that was great information! just wondering why they call it Shake?
I worked in a log home planer mill for years and never knew what caused shake. (4x6 tongue & groove Hemlock cabin logs aaaargh) We always planed our Hemlock logs and built our cabins when they were green because of the shake. Thanks for teaching this old dog something I didn't know.
I would guessed that "Shake" would have been caused by extreme wet or dry conditions of that year of growth. Awesome information, thanks!
Here in australia we allso call a defect where the log has been stressed and the fibers compressed across the grain , shake. Caused mainly in the felling of the tree when it hits a ridge , hollow or stump etc. Thanks for the new term . Ring shake. 42 years in carpentry and still learning. 🤔😀😎👌
My Grandaddy always called it wind shake. He said it was caused by the wind blowing the tree back and forth. He was a professional sawmill/ logger all his life
Good evening Emerald interesting i never imagined an extra learning as it is about living being as we suffer from some ailments
Great tutorial Em!! Great camera work Jade!! I watched closely as you cut closer to that ring crack. Very interesting! Thank you. Let me SHAKE your hands for a job well done! 👍👍👍
Very informative, learning a lot about wood. But FYI one reason I started watching your channel was one of your thumbnails showed you wearing you knife. I thought, a fiery red head with a fixed blade, I have to watch this. And I did miss it
We get shake in some trees here on Vancouver Island in some of the yew logs I cut , I have seen it go up as far as 10 feet on some of the older yew and a piece 24 inch across there has been so many rings compromised you can not even split it with an axe because the blade just gets absorbed into the wood and pops out.. What can be interesting is we have had cases where some roots near the bottom start to come back up into it and rotten sections
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You don’t know till you try is so true in all walks of life. Smart gal.
Good video. Shake can be very dangerous for wood turners. Having a bowl delaminate due to shake while turning at 1000 rpm (or higher) is a butt-puckering moment. :)
💚 Very informative. Thank You. You just jumped to the front of the line for my nomination for employee of the week. Sadly I have to wait for Sami's week review on Sunday. Not to put any pressure on her, however you have Em. Kudos
Thanks!
Great topic. We see that a lot here in E TN with the tall pines.
Thanks for the lesson. I was milling a Ash with my Alaskan mill last year and had this happen in a dramatic way. I felled the tree, it did not split and it laid down smooth. However it did have quite the lean to it. That’s what I thought it was from. The stress in the tree from growing at such an angle. It being almost 40” before the root swell I thought there would be some neat slabs in it. Even at 2 1/2” thick they split and bowed hard right after they were slabbed, within minutes. This is something to keep an eye out for as I gain more experience making slabs and sawdust.
Emerald, interesting subject that you brought up. There is only 1% of a tree that is alive and that being the closest growth ring to the bark so I would think that what ever happened to that log you demonstrated on happened years ago (based on growth after the shake) when that ring separated or became infected or stressed and that years growth became non-liiving cells followed by the growth ring of the next year. The years thereafter incased and hid that defect or injury and strengthened and stabilized the continued growth of the tree. Your thought?
Laminated root rot is called Phellinus weirii or yellow ring rot.
As Logger and Sawyer I have seen it and sawed logs on a circle mill , and shake logs can be very dangerous if they start falling apart when sawing thru the log and pieces get loose on the saw blade things could get flying at you.
Always expect the worst.
I have sawed logs that showed some shake and sawed out just fine with little to no shake.
And l have sawed logs that looked ok ( no sign of shake ) and fell apart when in the saw , that was a surprise, just never know what might happen .
Small band mill is safer when sawing shake logs , less chance of things flying at you .
I have had logs that grown at the edge of the woods that when sawed thru the center that bent a lot .
Sun on the one side of the tree made it grow weird .
I sawed a 16 foot red oak down to 8 5/16" x 8 5/16"
cant to be sawed in to four 4" x 4" x 16 foot .
I run it through the saw and it bent about 4" or more in 16 feet , put the two bent 4 x 8,s the carriage to saw in to four 4 x 4,s and sawed it again and it bent even more , now 8" or more bend in 16 feet , looked like four big bananas , totally bad , I cut it all into short pieces for blocking.
Had to get another log to saw out that order.
Stay safe and keep the sawdust flying .
I didn't know what that was named. I always chalked it up to stresses that happened when the tree was fell. I have seen poplar split in half when the logger threw it against the bank of a gully. The tree was about 90' tall and thr gully was about 40' deep and when the tree hit the top of the gully the tree split right down the center length ways.
I enjoy your videos and really enjoy how you all work together.
Keep up the good work. I wish you were on the east coast so you could quarter saw me some lumber.
I took a large oak log (about 36” or so)to a mill many years ago that had shake and he cut boards from the outsides but wouldn’t cut the center piece which was about 10 to 12” square. He told me that shake comes from water freezing in the tree and when the wind bends it, it will crack. His grandfather was killed when cutting a tree with shake, like it exploded and hit him, that’s why he wouldn’t finish cutting it.
I still like hemlock for doors which get exposure to weather. WEST System epoxy can reverse moderate shaking in a piece under construction.
After nearly 60 plus years in the timber industry (off and on)...I have learned here and there (occasionally in error) other factor for shake. Here in the Pacific N/W major timber species are Doug Fir, Western Larch, Ponderosa Pine, Engelmann Spruce, Hemlock, Cedar to name most thar reach saw log size. In the early days of logging here, the first 8 to 10 feet of the tree was left in the woods, (also to bypass butt swell) also spring boards (holes chopped into the trunk w/ boards to stand on) while using Misery Whips(crosscut saws) were utilized to avoid both swell and shake, often referred to as "Wind Shake" here. The explanation I received from experienced woodsmen, was that, especially in taller timber (old growth), the wind sway works on the bottom vascular system of the trees. Worth some thought any way.
Wow I never knew that and I was cutting firewood all my life… i’ve heard of it… Great video Em….
In the end, it does not seem to be important what causes shake unless it can be prevented. Recognizing it in a log is the important part.
That just goes to show that "The first step in solving a problem is recognizing there is one" and then the next part is what to do about it, in the best way.